Ladies, If He’s Not Giving 100%, Kick Him to the Curb

Ever felt your stomach knot because someone you love keeps you guessing? We’ve been there, and we’re calling it out: when a partner is only “60% in,” you end up giving 100% of your peace. We dig into the quiet ways people get trained to accept less—cold feet before a wedding reframed as “nerves,” infidelity excused as “a phase,” and late-night vanishing acts dressed up as “freedom.” If your days revolve around decoding texts, competing with other women, or lowering your bar to keep the vibe light, you’re not in a partnership—you’re in survival mode.

We break down the sunk cost trap that keeps smart, loving people stuck. Time invested, shared friends, deposits paid, even the dream of kids can feel like anchors, but they’re not reasons to abandon yourself. Leaving earlier hurts; leaving later devastates. So we name the real signs of a 100% partner: he doesn’t downgrade the relationship when life gets messy; he doesn’t make you compete for attention; he owns his words, plans the future, cools off without quitting, and returns to repair. That’s not perfection. That’s presence.

We also tackle fear and scarcity head-on: the myth that “all the good ones are taken,” the dread of being single after 30 or 40, the pull to fix people who told you from day one they don’t want commitment. You can’t perform your way into someone’s certainty. Boundaries are not ultimatums—they are clarity. Define your non-negotiables, believe people the first time, and leave while you still have power. You are not an applicant. You’re a partner, and calm love—the kind that feels like oxygen, not a test—is possible when you require it.

If this hits a nerve, share it with a friend who needs the reminder, subscribe for more real talk each week, and leave a quick review to help others find the show. Your story might be the lifeline someone else needs.

Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com

Transcript

30 Second Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is Cleveland.

SPEAKER_01 0:01

This is Lindsay.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

And this is another episode of The Devil You Don't Know.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Lindsay, what are we gonna be talking about today? Ladies, kick him to the curb. Stop being the option and start requiring 100%.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Nice. But first, what's been going on? Uh a little bit of gossip. What's been going on if you want to talk about anything before we get into the topic again?

Main

SPEAKER_01 0:25

I and I I don't gossip. So your family does enough of it for me to be entertained. So I'm just busy over here with my sourdough and my bean collection.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Big bean collection. Yeah. Multiple beans.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

What's gonna be going on with the beans? I told you every I have so many po I mean it's embarrassing how many pounds of beans I have. Well, you belong to that uh the what's it, the bean club?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

The bean club. Rancho, what is it? Rancho Gordo Bean Crown. Rancho Gordo Bean Club. But they have all types of legumes. They do. And I and therefore I have all types of legumes. Oh my god. How about that amazing what was that? California rice? Oh, the Chico rice. The Chico rice that they gave for free.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

That we now Well they always give a little treat in the box. So every three months I get a nice box of heirloom beans. And they always have one bonus item. And so this month was that nice rice, and now I have 18 pounds of it coming.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Well, yeah, it was delicious. It's like some of the best rice ever. I mean, it's it was like a mix of like it tasted almost like the It was like a sushi rice. Sushi rice, but then long grain and right? It was just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

I said it's like lightly milled, so it's it got the same nutrients as brown rice because they don't really mill it and hull it, I guess. But so now I have so many beans that I am cooking at least one pound a week, and I'm using those beans in different recipes. So last week we had that nice um dinner I made you with my homemade sourdough and the white bean miso dip with the crudette. Remember how nice I made that dinner for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

All very tasty.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yes, and now so far this week, I this week I did a pound of black beans, and then I made the black bean soup for you and the Mexican black beans. Nice and then so we'll be having that this week. And then I made a lemon blueberry sourdough with a crust of lemon sugar on top. And then in my fridge, I have a loaf of rye in the cold ferment, a loaf of white sourdough, and then I have uh I doubled your ciabata bun recipe this week.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

It's gonna be sounds like a good week for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

I have to actually, after we finish here, I have to go preheat the oven again to get it nice and hot so I can keep baking. I mean, remember I bought all that flour at Wagamans today, and you were like, you just bought flour.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah, a ton of flour.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

But it's all gone.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Oh, well, you got three bags of flour and gonna have a ton of bread, which everybody's gonna be happy about.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

So if you move me somewhere where I could just sell my sourdough at the top of the driveway, we'll make it, we will make it happen.

30 Second Outro

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Uh I I just speaking of gossip, I I I I will I I I think I I love giving people nicknames, and I just uh finished talking to my sister, who hopefully, if she listens to the show, doesn't get too offended that I'm gonna give her this new nickname, the town crier. Uh I was talking to my sister, the town crier, who was uh talking about like a cousin fight that she was in with some of the cousins. And you know, it goes back to what we've been talking about for the last two weeks before we get into this topic. It's like when you get to a certain age. The town crier.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

When you get to a certain age, isn't isn't it time to put away like childish arguments and you know Well, I also I think everybody when when everybody's involved in a situation, they have to sit there and think about why it's bothering them so much. Right. Because if they're if you didn't have any skin in the game and you really don't care, then it wouldn't be bothering you.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Right, right. You know, just to give like an overview, you know, there's like a little bit of miscommunication, you know, that was started by my mom, and I love my mom, but my mom is like the main my mom is the instigator in chief. Um, and also Mrs. Urkel, who who who starts who stirs the pot and then all sit back and be like, Did I do that?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

And it's like this whole situation could have been handled completely differently by having She's also a codependent enabler. I mean, I love your mom very much, but she's a codependent enabler.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

But the whole situation could have been this whole family gossip drama thing that's going on in the background, uh, could all been handled, and I told everybody involved, why didn't why didn't you just have a direct conversation? Like, why? If you had a here's a thing that people do, right? And I've been accused of it in the past, and maybe I have done it in the past. I try very hard not to. I think I'm very direct, and I think that kind of gets me in trouble at times because I will I go to nip stuff in the bud, like right away. You will say that about me. If I got a problem with somebody, Linz, who do I talk to?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Well, now you might. Right. In the past, you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Let's bring up that very bad. Because I have a gun. Yeah, but I had I had this, but you see where I get it from now that you've seen me interact with my family. But now you just have to go straight to the source. I go straight to the source. If me and you got a problem, I'm gonna tell you that me and you got a problem. Do we have a problem today? No, not today. Oh, okay. Not today. Maybe tomorrow. Or maybe the day after tomorrow. It's possible. Maybe in an hour or two from now. But you know what? Let's get into your topic. I hope not. No, we're not gonna have any problems.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Right. Let's get into this topic. So, what made me think about this was I saw somebody, I think it was on Instagram, say that there's so many women out there that allow men to treat them like they are a choice, like they are an option. And then I started to think about my clients and your clients over the years. And some of the things that I heard from these folks are things like, oh, well, you know, he's said he's about 60% in. Or he said he didn't want to marry me three weeks before the wedding, but I just told him it was cold feet. Or how about like the STD thing? I mean, I know I've had multiple clients over the years that have stayed with men who have repeatedly committed infidelity and have gotten them sick as a result of it. Right, right, right. And yet they just keep going back for more. And if you ask me, my option over that would be nobody. I would rather be alone than dealing with someone who is causing me that much stress and upset in my life.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

What what what's interesting is um I was talking uh to to Heaven Scent on this topic uh a couple of years ago. And even Heaven Scent is like, I'm done with being Barbara the Builder, right? Uh and what she was talking about is like she was done with dating guys that she felt like she had to fix up. Yet for some reason, a lot of women do this and they're fine, and and they're fine with it. And I just, and I just I I I think both of us struggle to understand um because we've sat down with both friends and patients alike who are like, well, I feel like I gotta stick with him. And and so I think today, you know, uh we want to talk about tell the women that, you know, that many of who we've worked with who are brilliant, capable, loving, that when you want a stable, committed relationship, that's important that you are not an option.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Right. And I do want to say that's not only for women, right? There's plenty of men that are on the receiving end of poor treatment as well, and we can address that in a different episode. But you know, let's let's kind of dive into why why women are tolerating this and what is your experience working with clients? Why are the women you work working, why are the women you're working with tolerating this kind of behavior? Right. What is it that's making them say there's nothing better than out there for me or I deserve more than this?

SPEAKER_00 7:47

So so, like you said, I I I do want to give the caveat before I I get into it because lately um many people by the way, sorry to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

You like my new Birkin stocks? They're nice, I'm breaking them in for vacation. See, I've been wearing them all over the house. Yeah, I see. They're very comfortable. Carry on, go ahead. Sorry for that. Just wanted to, you know, I always talk about my new Birkin stocks on the show. This advertisement has been for Birkin stocks. Yes, but let's just wait before I'm sorry, I just want to say this because this is something that's on my mind with Birkin stocks. Okay, so they get like new colors all the time. I know this is totally off topic, but no, it's a commercial. They get new new colors all the time. And so you buy these nice Birkin stocks, and they're not cheap, right? I mean, unless you can get them on a sale. But then you find this great new color and you're like, oh, I gotta get it because they have my size. Okay, I'm gonna get it, you know, because I love them and I know they last until literally you wear off the sole. And then as soon as you get them, now they got like 20 new colors, and now these are on sale already. They have this closeout department on there, okay? And that is now my new favorite thing because the shoes are like half price, but they suck me in with their fancy colors and they have a whole vegan line.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

So forget it, right? I mean, these are nice.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

So we're going to Nevis in about five minutes.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

I told you you should get one of these, they're very comfortable. You should try mine on just to see how you like them.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

I I think you know what? Just as soon as we're all so comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

And you know what I really like about these?

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Go ahead, tell me.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Because they're this um like plasticky kind of material, I think. Can't remember what they call it, but they just hose right off. Right. And don't get the white ones though. I have the white flip-flops and they just look permanently dirty now, and that's just gross. I'm always embarrassed when I go to the salon and I have to wear those. I see that. So you should get black. So you should just get like a dark color. I got green this time, and I'm really very happy with them. Look how they're so cute and comfortable. I actually might order a second pair when we hang up. Let's go on.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Would you like to talk about your Suri toothbrush next? Or was that next week after the first time?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Oh, I can I didn't get it yet. So I'll talk about that next week. I heard about that from Emmy online, who is like one of my favorite people that I follow because she does all this. Let's let's you are getting us further off topic. You, my friend, are so so the question, so so so thank you, Birkenstock, for the product. Do women tolerate this? Um sorry for that. Maybe Birkenstock will send me a free pair.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

I think maybe they will. I you know, as I was giving re say, you know, this is more than just for women. Um, and Dr. Glover talks about this in his book, No More Mr. Nice Guy. Uh, but for this sake, Lis, for this episode, we will just keep it for the sisters. Um, what I found is that many loving women um fall back into some of those instincts that women have, which is I want to be loving and I want to be nurturing and I want to be kind and I want to be patient. And they put up, as my daughter said, I'm gonna build this guy up. And I think what happens is there becomes this hope beyond hope that he's gonna get it one day and he's gonna change and he's gonna be the man that I want him to be instead of accepting him for the man that he is.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So there's this hope for change. That's what I believe is, and then they live from that place of hope. Right. Right. And so what are some of the reasons that women make for men?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Well, uh what in my personal experience is they make excuses for for the person, right? Where I've been told, oh, you know, he's just scared right now, or oh, he's been hurt before, or he's or like my client, he got cold feet. Yep, or he got cold feet, or or even like he just needs re-in-insurance. Or my favorite is well, this is just a phase. Um, and as we both know, if he ain't want to marry you on August 13th, then he still doesn't want to on September the 12th or whatever it is, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:19

And right, and you know, and now on the flip side of that, right, it's very messy. And, you know, as difficult and embarrassing it is as it is in the moment, in that moment that client should have walked away.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Right, right. I agree with that. You know, um, we know of somebody personally, and and we can talk about them a little bit because I don't think they listen to the show, uh, whose daughter was recently going to get married, and it was almost like a uh a TV show situation where she It was right before the wedding. Yeah, got left almost standing like a week before the wedding. Um the guy was like, Yeah, I can't do this. And if that was you, would you ever give that person a chance again?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

No, and she did. And they're still together, but they're still not married. Right. And you know, and that's okay if if it's not important to you to be married, but you shouldn't compromise what you want and what your long-term goals are for that for that person. And part of the problem, I think, too, and I don't want to generalize I didn't want to get married, but I made the compromise and I don't regret it one bit. I would do it again tomorrow. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. And to think I did it for the health insurance and now we pay for that shit privately. What the hell?

SPEAKER_00 12:24

You got I got you, psych. Now we gotta pay for it ourselves because we work for ourselves. But I think part of two is like certain certain women, certain women, right? Because I don't want to generalize as I've been accused of in the past, like to solve problems, right? Like my daughter said, they want to fix things. And I think what happens with certain women is when a guy says, I don't know or I'm not sure, they they think of it as a puzzle to solve. I'm going to fix this.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

I've got I can fix this, I can take care of this, I can make them look at their past and resolve all their conflict and heal their trauma.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Right. But instead of looking at it as a puzzle to solve, they should take that as a piece of information. And they should take that as a piece of information is this dude literally does not know what he wants to do. Um and I think in Scott Galloway's book, I talk about it a lot. I've listened to Scott Galloway talk in his uh about his his bestseller notes on being a man, and he's part of what makes men men, which has been lost in this toxic feminist culture that we live in, is that they don't know how to be assertive and they don't know how to speak up for themselves. Like, because they've been taught over and over again that uh, you know, being ambitious or being assertive or that these are toxic manly traits. But what happens is you have this segment of men, me and my son, my son and I were talking about it, and a bunch of female clients were talking about it, where you have this population of men now that doesn't know what they want to what they want or how to how to get it or even why they should get it.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Right. Well, and I think that that's actually a whole topic for another episode because I do think people are lost. Right. I think that, you know, gone are the days of people being able to support themselves and a family on a very basic job. And so now we've gotten into this position. But you know, that's something for another day to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

But so I want to I mean before you before you pivot real quick, I even wanted to talk about my conversation.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

I'm on I'm on the tail end of this cold, and I do want to um say that we did try to record this uh last week, but I was not feeling well, and I took a tea that might have had a little something in it. And halfway through I was woo-hoo! And then I needed a big giant nap on the sofa.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Now we're revisiting it.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

But uh we or not, I didn't drink the tea today.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

No, we're revisiting the episode. Because I but real quick, right? Because this is about where we got to. Uh right here is where we got to when we had to stop recording. But some other things have happened which actually feels much more present today. Thank you. Well, you were like, Whoa. Whoa. Foss there's a song, there's a song called Lost in Space by Foster the People, and that was definitely playing in the background last week. But I'm thinking about my conversation with the town crier, right? Um, who has a has a challenging husband. Um should you talk about that here? Yeah, we can because it's on the topic, right? Because that person has had a series, every dude that the town crier has married has been somebody that has not added to her not put her first, right? And and for some reason, I don't know what happened to to my sister to make her that way, but for some reason, every relationship from the time that she's been in her late teens to now where she's at in her her early 60s has been about let me chase this bum that gives me nothing, that adds nothing to my life, that does nothing for me. And then complains that the person's not doing anything. It's like Judge Joe Brown said many uh years ago on an episode of his show.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Well, and sometimes you also have to look at the other part of it too, right? In that situation, because what is your sister really doing? Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

So but then he was saying that, you know, like women will complain that, oh, this guy's not doing anything, but then they'll say, Well, I want a thug and I want a tough guy and I want this cool guy. But he was like, You don't want any of the things that come with that.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Right, right, absolutely. And then let's also talk about some of the reasons that women stay, like because they feel that they've invested so much that it's hard to leave.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Like, so so in economics, when I'm studying economics, they call that the sunk cost. Do you know what a sunk cost is? No, please tell me. A sunk cost is money that you spend that you know you're never going to get back. And so I like that. And it's so so that's what a sunk cost is. And so I think of this as the sunk cost trap that you know I've already spent. So think about sunk costs like this. Like you buy a house and then you have to put$10,000 in repairs in in in are you are you having a problem? No, my headphone was hurting a little. I fixed it though.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

I was wondering if you swapped mine out with yours by an accident. Probably. I mean, mine have never felt like this before. But carry on, go ahead. But a sunk I'm listening to you.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

A sunk cost is like, say, there's an old uh, I think it's a Tom Hikes movie called The Money, called the Money Pit, about a house that that they buy and they keep on sinking more and more money into it. But after a time, like let's say something costs you ten thousand dollars to buy initially, but then in repairs and maintenance, now you spent thirty thousand dollars in it, right? What do you do you think that's gonna be something that somebody wants to give up like readily after you've put so much money and time into a thing?

SPEAKER_01 17:23

No, probably not. Right? So you've put time, you've put money, you know. Um, you know, one of the things I have a couple, well, I have a woman I work with who recently went through a divorce. I haven't seen her in a while, but you know, one of the things that she was struggling was was the loss of shared friendships. Right, right. Right, because they'd been together for 10 or 12 years, married for five, and so her whole adult life she spent, you know, with this guy. Right. And so most of their friendships came as a result of that.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Right. And and and so a sunk cost is is you sometimes I know that women stay in relationships because they think about the time, they think about the emotions they've put into it, they think about the financial resources, like you just said, shared friends, they think about family, and they even and some of them might even be thinking about, well, I'm fertile right now.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yeah, and if I start over, then I'm not gonna find anybody, I'm never gonna have a kid. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Uh, but but here's the thing is a video that Jason Pargin put on TikTok last week, which was very interesting to me, said that everybody, at least one time, and that's a minimum, is going to have to make a choice in your life where you need to start over. And and if the only reason that you're staying with somebody is because you're afraid to start over, is that reason to stay? Nope. Right, right. Because you and I you know I don't do things out of fear, so but you and I have both started over. And has it been and has this second act been good for you? It's been the best. Oh so so should some oh thank you. So should someone stay with somebody because canceling I and I and I can tell you, even in my first relationship, I knew going into that that I probably shouldn't have married that person, but I I stayed because I was worried about a lot of those things. I was worried about the public failure, especially in being a Jehovah's Witness. I was worried about the embarrassment, and I think a little bit too, I was worried about starting from scratch.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Same for me. And I was a stay-at-home mom for a long time. So that, you know, to go and back into the workplace and have to, you know, pay my own bills and support myself and support the children was definitely very um, you know, fear-inducing.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah, but uh, you know, but I actually worked with somebody uh once several years ago who was in this predicament where they had invested, you know, about seven, eight years into a relationship. And the person, I was like, Where, what I said, let me ask you a question. No jokes. No, no jokes, no hurt feelings. How has your life improved in seven years from when you started with that person? And they they couldn't tell me, right? And they were like, Well, can you tell me how your relationship has improved since you've been with your wife? And I was like, Oh, yeah, I can tell you. I don't live in my mom's basement. I have two cars, uh, I traveled the world, I quit a job that I didn't want to work at anymore. Um, my I have a friend that I can talk to, and my life is improved in all types of ways, right? And a relationship should not just be like, you know, we watch these Hallmark movies and it's like, yay, love you happily ever after, you know, this is great. But a relationship, you should actually get something from it. That is right. Right? And if you and if you're not getting anything from that relationship, ladies, I'm telling you straight up, dead ass, as uh as my my my wonderful friend Ernest Jones used to say, God rest the soul, dead ass, then you probably should think about getting out.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

One of the greatest things I get out of you is a chauffeur.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Uh wow, wow. And a good wine, a good wine.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

I love you very much because I I really hate driving and you really drive me everywhere. But and when I don't want to drive, you'll take me. I mean, this morning you took me to Wagmans at 720 in the morning. Yeah, yeah. And you didn't want to.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Didn't want to. But the day ended up working out because I got out of another obligation that I was supposed to do. And I made you that soup. You made me that nice black bean soup. But I I I I I think before we get too distracted here, before we move on to the next thing, is what we're saying here is that time, time invested, finances invested, these aren't enough of a reason to stay if you are miserable. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Yes, and if you think that they are, then believe me, they are not.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

They are probably not. Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

And so it's when people tell you things about themselves, you really have to believe that what they're telling you is true, right? I don't want to get married in three weeks. Right. Right. And so then what happens to you as the woman? Embarrassment, public failure, you have to tell everybody, oh my God, I'm gonna have to start over again. Yeah, sure, it's painful in the moment, but now look at how many years of pain that client has lived with because still with the guy. Right. Right? Because there's so much now invested that it's it's proving very difficult to get out.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Right, right. So let's move on to another reason that we've both heard is fear of being alone. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Oh, some people cannot be alone. Right? Like, and and and alone with their thoughts, alone with themselves. They have to be with someone. People, some people just chronically date because they can't be alone.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah, I was talking to a friend the other day who for a while was pining in being in a relationship and with a man. Um, and that person's a social worker, and they actually told me he's like, you know, they were like, you know what, Cleve? Um, yeah. Uh I've kind of changed my mind that I just need to get with somebody because I've seen so many horror stories of of ladies who are out here that are just with dudes that ain't doing anything. Um, and so I I I actually think that for myself, I want a partner who I know I'm gonna be aligned with, and I'm fine to wait. Like I really just I would rather be, as Chris Rock said, I think I'd rather be single and lonely than married and miserable.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

But I'm not if I were single, like I wouldn't be lonely. Right. And so if you're lonely, then you need to explore that as well. I don't get lonely. I really don't. I I really I like being with myself, I like doing things by myself. So, you know, a part of that is just self-love and self-trust and you know, believing in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Here are some things that I've heard people say about why they stay in toxic relationships and toxic marriages is dating is brutal. All the good men are gone. Oh, I don't want to be over 30 and single or over 40 and single. And here's the best one the scarcity mindset one. What if I never find someone that's right?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

But here's the truth being in a relationship where someone is only partially invested in you creates a chronic anxiety state. And why is and why is that? They're constantly looking for signs, you know, people checking on people, making sure they're not cheating, making sure they're not talking to anybody, right? Interpreting things, texts, phone calls, conversations, creating a story about them in your head, wondering if the person is with someone else or if they're you know what they're doing, and then just you know, trying to perform better all the time, right? You have to step up. I'm gonna do this and it's gonna be better. I'm gonna do that, and then he's gonna like me more. He's gonna respect me.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

And that becomes not about partnership, but that becomes about survival. And if you and if that is how you're looking at your partner as somebody you have to survive instead of thrive with, then that means that your relationship is in a really bad state. It reminds me, you remember the song Karma Chameleon by Boy George? Do you remember the line that I'm getting ready to quote? I don't know. Every every day is like survival. You're my lover and not my rival.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Oh right.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

And and and and I think what happens is, and I know what happens is is in these in these situations, is that it does become about survival. It does become about the person being your rival. And it builds, as James Sexton said, says, it makes seeds of resentment grow into trees of hatred. So here's the truth, and we'll say it again is being in a relationship where the other person is only partially invested keeps you in a constant state of anxiety. That is true, right? Here, here are some like real stories and some real things uh that we've encountered uh in real life. He said he didn't want to marry me three weeks before the wedding. What what decipher that one, Linz?

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Well, my client told him that it was cold feet, right? But it wasn't cold feet. He was telling her he didn't want to get married, right? Because what is cold feet? I'm nervous about the wedding, I'm anxious about being in front of all these people, how is life gonna change, right? A fear of the unknown. But it's not, that's not, you know, cold feet. Cold feet, when you say to somebody, I do not want to get married to you three weeks before the wedding, that you know what that is? That's just the truth.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

That's the truth. Oh, thank you. Because the stuff that you want in life, I wanted enthusiastically. Like, let's think about Mark Mason uh wrote uh a column that I'll since we keep it G-rated called F Yes or F No. And Mark Mason said, like, think about the things in in life that you really, really want. I really, really wanted a PlayStation 5. I really, really wanted you. I really, really wanted an Xbox. I really, really wanted to go see uh Avengers Endgame so much that I got a speeding ticket on the way home to see it, right? The things that you really want in life, Lindsay, do you need to be reassured, convinced, overridden, or have somebody else make the decision for you? Nope. Right. But when a man says, I don't think I want to marry you, what is he asking for?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

He's asking He's asking for permission to not get married.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Right, right, right. That's that's that's what it says, right? And so what a lot of people do, both men and women, but in this case we're keeping it for the ladies, is they're like, oh, they make excuses. Oh, he's just overwhelmed, he's just stressed, and this is and this is normal. And they silence their own intuition. Because let me tell you, Linz, one thing that I've learned in life is if you're not enthusiastic about me, then don't be enthusiastic, then don't choose me. Just simply don't. Because it's like goes Sandra Bullock said in the in the movie The Blind Side, that the best place that you're gonna like something is before you buy it, like is in the store. And if you kind of got questions about me in the store, then that means you're gonna get me home and you're still gonna have questions about me there, right? That is true. And a relationship is not the place to question. So, ladies, I'm gonna say this as a man: if he's not a hundred percent enthused, then you gotta figure out if he likes you or not. He's just not that into you. Boom. He's remember that movie? Yeah, he's just not that into you, right? So he's just not in book. Right. Now, here's another one uh that I encountered from a friend like a long time ago, and I actually wrote a column about this. When that person asked that um, hey, how much are invested are you in this relationship? Uh their partner was like, uh, about 60% in. I wish I would tell you, Lindsay, that I was 60% in. What what what would end up happening to me? Well, we wouldn't be sitting here right now. That is faux show. That is for sure. Um I I I I you know, here's here's some questions to ask you, right? And I I I was I was watching this on a on a on a TV show when it was talking about percentages. You know, would you board a plane that only had a 60%? And these are the questions I want to ask, right? For people that are in relationships that you know the personally is only partially invested in you. Would you board a plane that was only 60% sure to land? Would you invest in a stock that was only 60% stable? Nope. Would you buy a house whose foundation was only 60% secure? Nope. So why are people choosing to stay in relationships and build a life with somebody who is only 40% sure that they want to be with you? Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Right, right. And and in my opinion, a person uh or a man who's 60% in is hedging his bets and he's keeping You know what's so crazy?

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Can we go on on a side note? Like that you would actually like ask a guy that and they'd be like, Yeah, I'm 60% in. Right. Like I can't even picture that conversation. Oh, but I hey Cleve, how into this are you, like on a percentage out of a hundred, what's yours?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

But no, I know a lot of young ladies that I've worked with that are that do ask, and the guy will be like, Yeah, and then they just take it, you know, like meh. And then, you know, I I I you know, I've met somebody um a while back that, you know, is that was complaining about how many times they've been cheated on in relationships, but how open they are and and forgiving and willing. And I was like, Do you ever think that you've been cheated on so many times because you created a situation where you let these guys walk all over you that they know I can come in here and I can do pretty much anything um and just be done with it? Yeah, yeah, and just be and just and just do and just do. Nope. Right, right, all right. So so that's that's how it goes. I and what I was gonna say is a person who's only uh or a man who's telling who's who's telling somebody they're only 60% in, he's hedging his bets and he's keeping the door cracked open for other opportunities. Which is what I said earlier, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Stop letting men treat you like a choice.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, yeah. And what and so the analogy that I use is that you deserve a man who locks the door behind him and who says, I am 100. You lock like a hundred feet. Oh, real good. Yeah, I lock all the door. I mean, it's just a home at night. You're like, why do you lock the door?

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Lock the door to the bedroom when we go to sleep. We're the only people who live here.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Listen, you never know. I watch a lot of horror movies. You never know. Yeah, they know. Let's make it hard for the scream killer to get into the room. But what what it is is is is you know, you want somebody who says, I'm here. Now, and and we've all known a situation like this, they gave me an STD from cheating.

unknown 31:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Is that confusion? Is that immaturity?

SPEAKER_01 31:13

No, is that a mistake? No, it's a disregard for our relationship, for you, for my health, for your health.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Right. I remember uh when my first wife uh cheated on me that my um my uh physician, you know, immediately asked me to come in the office to come see her. And she said, Listen, I've been cheated on before. She's like, I didn't call you down here because you know, I was, you know, because you really needed to urgently come in and get tested for STD. I've been cheated on, and I know that sometimes you just need somebody to help you clear your head. So I just wanted to see how you were doing, right? Oh, did you tell your doctor? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like personally? Yeah, because I said I needed to get That was before you had boundaries? Yeah, but no, we were cool, but we were cool. It was my primary care physician. If you can't tell your primary care physician that your spouse was cheating on you and you need to get a test for STDs, then who else can you tell? Right? But but here's the thing, and this is what my physician said was when you're with somebody like that, you don't want to be with somebody who says that my impulses matter more than your health, that my pleasure matters more than your safety, and my secrecy matters more than us being in a trusted relationship. But that's not a mistake. It is when you go out and you purposely listen, there are things that happen in the heat of the moment, right? But when you go out and you purposely are having so much sex with so many people that you're contracting STDs, that is pure disregard.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Well, the craziest thing was when I worked with a couple, this is going back a while, but she got an STD from him, and when we talked about it, he was bored. That's why he cheated. He was bored. I don't, I, I, I don't even understand that. I'm never bored.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Are you bored? Right? No, I'm never bored, no, because only boring people are bored, are bored. That's what I like to say. But I think the question that what some women ask is, can we fix this? And instead, what should they be asking themselves?

SPEAKER_01 33:05

How uh like I need to like what can I do to you know not repeat this?

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Right. Or why did I accept it, right? Yeah. And so when I have c people that come to me and be like, oh, I got cheated on and I keep on getting cheated on, and I don't understand why I keep on getting cheated on, then I ask them, like, well, what are you doing that is putting the message out there that you are accepting of the cheaters, right? Yeah, like bullies, and I have several people that I've worked with that get bullied at work. And why do people get bullied? Because what kind of energy are they doing?

SPEAKER_01 33:35

They allow people to treat them in a certain way. Because the bully always they don't speak up.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Perfect, right? Because the bully always finds who they're gonna bully. And so if you're somebody who's constantly getting to getting cheated on, you have to ask yourself, what message are you putting out there that you're that you're accepting? It's okay to have a boundary. Like I had somebody once tell me, like, oh, well, I think it's too soon to tell somebody what my expectations are in the relationship. And I was like, what? Like, so you go to a store and you go to buy a dress, and you're like, you tell the cell, ah, it's too soon to tell a salesperson I want a blue dress.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Well, you know, that's the thing I I have to say about that is that I talk about this with clients all the time. And this is the biggest mistake that people make in every single relationship in their lives, and with partners, with family, with friends, is that they do not discuss what is okay with them and what is not okay with them. And it's okay to have a set of expectations in a relationship. Because the thing is, is for me, right, cheating is a non-negotiable. So, like, if you do it, it's over. Right. Like, I'm not trying to work it out, right? And we all have to say, what are our non-negotiables? What are the expectations that I have in this relationship? And you know, some people can overcome cheating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

And we're not saying that, and listen, we're not saying that if you choose to work with somebody who cheated on you, that you don't have a right to. That's up to you. Right. But if you are working, if you're sitting with somebody who's chronically cheating on you, who's chronically not bringing anything to your life, who's chronically unemployed.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

And it's causing you more stress and chronic anxiety than they are of like happiness or adding value to your life, then you have to explore that.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Right, right. You know, let's talk about people who stay in relationships in which they know that they're an option, right? And that's for a lot of women stay in that. They stay with married guys, they stay with guys who are constantly cheating on them, um, because they were like they think that one day the person's gonna see the light and choose them. That's you know. So when a person is cheating you, treating you like an option, right? These are the things that he's gonna say, right? He's gonna avoid defining the future, right? And when I work with people that are in these long-term relationships that are going anywhere, it's like when you talk to him about the future, what does he say about it? Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

I mean, how about people that have already had a kid together and then the guy won't commit? Right. Like what? I mean, I think you've had a client like that in the past, right? It's like, well, what what is the difference? We're already living together, we've already got a kid. What what what is the difference?

SPEAKER_00 36:02

So so so some of the things you want to look out for is he avoids defining the future. He, when you ask him about well, what is gonna happen in the future, he says, Well, let's just see. He doesn't initiate long-term plans, he makes sure to keep emotional distance, and and and lastly, withholds reassurance. And so, what happens for for a lot of the women in these relationships? How do they try to compensate?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Trying harder, becoming more accommodating, maybe lowering their expectations, saying, Oh, well, you know, I shouldn't have expected that, you know, what that right? They start to question themselves and then they start to like almost overgive, right? What can I do? How can I please this person to please them? And then what they also do is just accept breadcrumbs, I like to say, right? They just accept this crappy behavior and this kind of non-committal nonsense. Right. So, so here's a question for you.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

What are you teaching somebody when you accept their shenanigans?

SPEAKER_01 37:02

That 60% is enough for me.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

And and then what happens to the relationship balance when one person's given 100 and the other one's not? Well, what do you think happens to it?

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Well, you teach the person that you're just gonna do everything and they don't have to do anything.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

So it goes back to this There's no reciprocity.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

It goes back to the idea of the person that I talked to before that was like, oh, I've been cheated on five times. If you've been cheated on five times, what responsibility do you have in that? Have you sent out a message to these five different people that it's okay to cheat on me? Like you must be putting that messaging out there.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Right. Well, and also you need to explore why you're not choosing quality people. Okay, because maybe there is infidelity sometimes, yes, right? Maybe we overlook those things or we don't see it in somebody when we meet them. But when that's a decision that you're making and it's coming back to haunt you over and over and over again, you have to look at exactly what you just said. What are you putting forth? Right? What kind of energy are you putting forth? But also, like you're also kind of not attracting the right type of people.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Right, right. So as we come to a start to come to a close on this topic, what does a 100% in relationship look like? What does it mean and what does it not mean?

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Well, it doesn't mean things are perfect, right? But it means we can communicate about them. Right. It doesn't mean there's no conflict, right? We don't always see eye to eye, but what we see rarely.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

That's not true. Okay, mostly rarely.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Stop. Right, but but it's that you know how to address conflict. You work together to address conflict, you work together to address fears. And if you have doubts that you can actually go to your partner and say, you know, I have doubts about this. Right, right. I can communicate about this. So it doesn't mean that you should, you know, expect perfect communication, expect that everything is going to always be okay. There's not going to be fear, there's never going to be doubt, there's never going to be conflict, because there are going to be things like that. Right. But when someone is 100% in, it means that they clearly commit to communicating with you. Yeah. And constantly put forth the effort, right? And the emotional accountability, and they plan for the future.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Yeah. So, so, so, ladies, I'm a man, and I've made some of these mistakes in the past. Lindsay can tell you, right? But I'm a man of a certain age, and I am a man. So, I'm gonna tell you what a man who's 100% in does and what it looks like. A man who's 100% in does not downgrade the relationship when things get hard. He keeps it a priority. A man who's 100% in does not threaten to leave during a conflict, but he wants to work through and make it happen. Maybe he's like, hey, you know what? Let's cool off here. Let me take a walk, you take a walk and let's come back. But he doesn't leave because there's a conflict. A man does not make you compete with other women.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Oh, right. I remember once you told me about a client where somebody was dating someone and the guy had to go help a friend. Right. Listen. Listen. And it was a female friend. So that would not fly over there.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Somebody named the town crier might have told somebody, well, I know such and such cheats on me, but I'm his wife, and he loves me, and that's and they all these other women, they're not the wife. I'm sorry, I'm loud like the town crier.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

That was I'm still recovering from that phone call.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

But it that person, a man who loves you will never ever make you compete with other women. And here's the thing: that other women uh includes his mother, his sister, or other women in his family. Uh the Bible says that a man will put his, will leave his father and a mother and become one with his wife. So a man will never make you compete with another friend. I I told somebody once that my father, um, a good guy, my him and my mom were married 49 years before he passed away. It would have been 50 if he'd have made it one more year. In year 42 of their marriage, a woman from the local church asked him to come over and fix some plumbing in her house, right? And she's married, by the way. Um, my dad goes over there, does it, boom, boom, boom, he comes home. You know what Gene told him? Don't you ever do that again? Don't you ever do that again? You tell her to call a plumber, right? Don't ever you you if you're gonna go over and fix something else in somebody else's. Now, some women might say that's unreasonable. I would say that was a boundary that my mom put, and it's okay. My dad didn't argue back, right? He didn't say anything. He's like, Gene, I'm sorry, I should have talked to you about it before I went. Absolutely, right? And so a man doesn't make you compete with other women, nor does a man create instability and then say, I need to be free. Oh, I need to go run out with the boys, and I need to do, oh, you always shutting me down, and you well, you know, you always doing this, you know. And and listen, it's okay to have personal freedom, right? And we're not telling you the boss or guy around. But if somebody is doing stuff that is literally disturbing the marriage, which is or it's disturbing the relationship, staying out to four or five o'clock in the morning, you don't know where they're at, you know, constantly disappearing. That's not freedom, that's instability. And that is not how relationships work.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Right. And then it kind of comes a little bit down to attachment styles. When we become so accustomed to these unhealthy attachment styles, right, that we we become used to chaos, and then we don't actually know what a healthy relationship looks like and feels like. And so then we become insecure in that, or we think the other person is clingy, but that's actually the relationship, like that's what a healthy loving relationship is.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Exactly. In a healthy loving relationship, the man should make you feel secure, the man should make you feel chosen, the man should make you feel calm. Right? But like you said, calm is probably unfamiliar to you when you're used to chaos.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

But calm if you have that attack anxious attachment style, that insecure kind of anxious attachment, that's when people, you know, they start to doubt things all the time. And that's probably also why people stay 60% in a 60% when when someone's only 40% really into them, right? The 60% in thing. Um, yeah, but I I think that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Yeah. So on our last topic, self-worth, the deeper root. How does self-worth play into choosing a partner or choosing if you're a woman out there choosing a man for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 43:27

But you have to trust yourself and love yourself. And you know, and if you don't, then that would be a reason that you tolerate that. Because you don't think or believe that you deserve any better or any different.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Right. I think media teaches us that love is earned. Um and that's not and that's and that's not the case. Um if somewhere along the way you learn that love must be proven, that love must be ex you must be exceptional to be chosen, or that you're replaceable, then you learn the wrong things about love because you You are irreplaceable, right? Yep. You don't have to prove nothing to me, right? Right. And I'm definitely not exceptional. So thank you. But you don't need to be exceptional to be chosen. And if that's how you think about yourself, or that's how you think about love, then really there's no perfect person, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:20

And this is also where I think the online dating thing really skews dating these days and skews relationships because you know people kind of can be replaced within minutes online.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. People think, let me become more patient, let me become more understanding, let me become more unattractive, let me become more attractive. And people say I need to be less needy. Right. The question that they should be asking is why am I auditioning to someone who should already be committed? Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

You're not an applicant.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Right. Now, do you have to do, I tell my couples, do you have to do all the same things that you got the person to keep the person? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Yes, and you have to constantly work on things, right? But you also have to put your expectations out there. And the uh both people have to be open to the communication.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

And as a partner in the relationship, like you said, as a partner in the relationship, your partner should be accountable to you. And you should be accountable to your partner. And if you can't have that kind of accountability toward each other, then you need to rethink this relationship. I will say that. You are not an applicant, you are a partner. And partners get to say, if you go to a law firm, a partner in a law firm has a big position because a partner gets to say the direction that the law firm gets to go in, right? And if you are a partner in a relationship, you both get an equal say into the relation with into the way the relationship goes. So lastly, let's ask this how do you actually kick them to the curb? Or why should you eventually kick somebody to the curb?

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Well, it's about self-worth and self-trust, which I said earlier, right? And so some of the things that you need to do are, you know, believe in yourself. And when a man tells you something, believe what he says. If he's not sure, if he doesn't want to get married, if he's not ready to commit, believe him.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

And we talk about that with Heavinson. Remember she had a boyfriend a long time ago that told her from jump. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Remember the anxiety she was having here? She had to take a Xanax, I think, to calm down. She comes here for dinner and she's in a panic because he told her when they started dating that he didn't want a serious relationship. And then every single time that she saw him on a dating app, she was freaking out. Right. And they were not getting along. And it's like when he told you that from the jump, that's what he meant. Believe him. So you have to believe him. You can't change him.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

So you have to stop trying to earn that missing, especially in a in a situation where somebody says they're only partially in 60% or whatever the number is, is you have to start trying to stop trying to earn that missing 40%. How do you do that, Linz?

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Well, you can't work your way into someone's certainty.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Stop trying to prove yourself. Stop trying to like even out the dynamic between the two of you. Stop trying to, you know, you do things also to draw him in, so then he does things that make you more desperate or anxious. Right. And and also, like, if you're, you know, choose yourself before you choose anyone else. And I'll tell you that's probably pretty attractive to men.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Yeah. You know, the last thing I want to say, well, one of the last things I want to say on this is uh, and I and I did work with somebody um not too long ago who was like, Well, I don't want to, you know, my last per my last therapist told me I was giving wife energy when I should be giving giving uh just girlfriend energy, and and and I was like, well, clarify that for me. And I was like, okay, some of that I understand, but having a boundary or deciding who you are, when should you decide that, Lindsay? Should you decide in the middle of a heartbreak or during a fight? Like what your boundaries are? So is it all is it wrong for you as a woman to have a standard for the type of man that you want to date? No, right? It is not wrong. So I'm gonna say that again, right? Decide now that I'm only going to build with someone who, as the Bible says, iron sharpens iron. I'm only going to build with someone who is fully in and who fully brings something to my life. Right. When your standards are clear, your decisions are clearer. And it's okay to have standards, ladies. It's okay to have standards because when you don't have, what is it? People that don't stand for anything fall for everything. Have you ever heard that saying? I have for that. And when you don't have a standard in the men or, you know, the standard in the men or the standard in the people that you're dating, you're gonna date a whole bunch of clowns and losers.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Yeah, and the last thing that I want to talk about before we close is women, leave while you still have power. Yes. I always say this to people if you wait for your partner to finally kick you to the curb, you're gonna be annoyed that you didn't do it first because you didn't speak up, because you didn't stand in power, you didn't take control. Don't wait and think he's gonna change. Don't, you know, oh, well, we're married. Oh, but now we're gonna have kids. It's gonna make it better, right? Because we listened to James Sexton and who was it? Was it Jordan Harbinger. And Jordan Harbinger talk about that. One of the things that couples do when things are bad is they have a kid thinking it's gonna make everything better. Let me tell you, that makes it so much harder.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

So much worse.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

There's so many more things that you have to consider when eventually it doesn't work out.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

And but so, so when it the best time to get out of a relationship is when you're not married, when you don't have children, when you're not financially entangled, and not when the person's cheated on you for the umpteenth time.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

You know, yeah, you know, you know, it might hurt, but when you leave after all these other things, it's more devastating than it is hurtful.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

Yeah. Leaving earlier, it hurts. And we've both been in relationships that we've had to leave. But leaving later devastates. You know, leaving after you have kids, terrible. Leaving after you've bought a house together, difficult, right? Right. Leaving after the person's cheated on you for the third time and given you an STD, which now limits your dating potential, awful. Right. So you don't have to wait for marriage. I'm gonna reiterate it one more time. You don't have to wait for children, you don't have to wait to get financially entangled, and you don't have to wait for more betrayal.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

I think what people do is they use those things as an excuse that it's harder, right? Oh, but we're married. Oh, oh, but but we have the house, or oh, we have the kids, right? It becomes an excuse for another reason to not stand in your power, but while you still have power, right? Leave. Leave. Uh, Lynn, do you have a closing comment for the ladies? Yeah, you're not a placeholder. You're not a backup plan, you're not a convenience, you're not meant to convince somebody to love you. So somebody who's 60% in will drain 100% of your peace. And the longer you stay, the more you start to believe that that's all you deserve.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

And I'll say this: I'm gonna add this as a man the right partner will not ask you or make you or force you to decode and decipher them. They will not ask you to be Barbara the Builder. He will not make you complete, he will not make you comp compete, he will not make you compete for his attention with any other women or any other thing. He will not make you say, and he will not say, uh, maybe, kinda don't know when it comes to the future. He will be 100% in. And until you require that, you will keep accepting less, right? You know, it goes back to what uh uh Hector said about Rory when they talked about their relationship, when she talked about the ways that she feels inadequate, and instead of beating her up for what for what her conceived inadequacy, he said, baby, wherever you go, I will I will follow. And that is what a real committed man does, despite your inadequacies or your flaws, as long as you are committed and kind and loving, baby, wherever you go, he will follow. Oh, I know you will. Okay. That is true for me. 100%. Well, this has been Cleveland and Lindsay, and this has been another episode of The Devil You Don't Know.