The Devil You Don’t Know
In The Devil You Don’t Know, Lindsay, Cleveland, and their guests discuss personal growth and development by taking chances and getting out of your comfort zone. Topics range from whimsical to serious and everything in between but are always relevant to growth and development.
The Devil You Don’t Know
Dead or Alive: Are You Awake or Just Existing?
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
You can have a job, a schedule, a social life, and still feel like you’re watching yourself go through the motions. We start with funny banter and real-life moments, then pivot into a bigger question that hits hard: are we actually awake, or are we just moving? From scrolling first thing in the morning to adopting beliefs because our “side” demands it, we talk about how autopilot living can look normal while it quietly disconnects us from our own identity.
We unpack the hive mind and modern “programming” from culture, family expectations, politics, news, and algorithms. We also get personal about grief, therapy, and loyalty: how being a commitment person can turn into sacrificing your comfort, and how an outside therapist can help you see what no longer fits. Along the way we tie mindfulness meditation and Buddhist ideas to emotional resilience, including the skill of increasing your tolerance for unpleasant feelings instead of numbing out or dragging everyone into your mood.
The heart of the conversation is intentional living. Purpose is not a one-time discovery or a big social media moment; it’s daily alignment, stronger boundaries, and the courage to ask “What do I want?” and “What aligns with me?” We close with practical ways to step away from noise, stop chasing validation, and build a life that feels authentic, present, and alive.
If this resonates, subscribe to The Devil You Don’t Know, share the episode with someone who feels stuck, and leave a review with one habit you want to stop doing on default.
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
30 Second Intro
SPEAKER_00This is Lindsay. And this is Cleveland. And this is another episode of The Devil You Don't Know. What are we talking about today, Cleveland?
SPEAKER_01Today we're gonna be talking about for a change. Oh, I know, I know. It's nice to do it up, right? Got people. Well, what's happening here? Uh, today we're gonna be talking about dead or alive. Are you awake or just existing? Just like the Bon Jovi song. Just like that's one of my favorites, right? Dead or alive. Do you have any stories? I uh I imagine you have a story connected. I love Bon Jovi.
SPEAKER_00He's ages very well.
SPEAKER_01Oh, he's very sexy. I I I'm feeling a little jealous right now.
SPEAKER_00No, don't be. Oh, he has a wife. Anyway, let's talk about Bon Jovi for a moment. My sister and I went to see him years ago in I think in New Jersey at the Meadowlands. And is it still called that? Probably not.
SPEAKER_01Probably some capitalist says renamed the FedEx.
SPEAKER_00My sister and I went to see him, and my late grandfather said to us, Why would you want to go see him? All he does is jump around and scream in tight pants.
SPEAKER_01Which is exactly what young teenage girls would love to see.
SPEAKER_00Very true, very true. We had a good old time there, yeah.
SPEAKER_01What else is going on this week? I I had a very eventful week that I don't want to touch on for a little bit.
SPEAKER_00I know, I don't know. I've been very zen. Yeah. Just doing my thing, keeping a clean house, trying to put out housewife vibes, so you'll let me stop working.
SPEAKER_01That's you need to talk to Donald Trump and feminism and the uh women's revolution about why you can no longer be a housewife. There's so many factors in that. You know, you know, interesting thing is uh is Jason Pargin, who I quote every week, and I love Jason Pargin. Jason, if you ever watched the show, if you ever listened to the show, we'd love to have you on as a guest. Uh but Jason Pargin said, you know, the feminist revolution kind of did one of two things that it made it forced women who never wanted to work and probably would wanted to be home with their kids and wanted to be houseweight makers and wanted to raise their kids in the way they wanted to be, it forced them in a situation where everybody had to work.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, I I think so. I think so. I mean, it's also the cost of living is really, really high here. And, you know, I think it makes it difficult for people to stay home.
SPEAKER_01But that's capitalism, right? Because once you realize that we can make money off of both of these fools.
SPEAKER_00It's impossible. Right. I mean, it's almost impossible for people to own homes now.
SPEAKER_01It's crazy, right? It's crazy. But capitalism is this weird, you know, the snake eating its tail kind of system where the more money you make, the more money we take.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01Um, before we get even into the today's topic, I do want to get into a pet peeve of mine.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, please. And then I want to actually talk about something.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you want to go first? Let's do ladies first.
SPEAKER_00Let's do it. Let's do no let's do ladies first.
SPEAKER_01Let's do ladies first.
30 Second Outro
SPEAKER_00We're gonna be going to Nevis in a couple of weeks. Of course we are. And so I was just looking at a few things. We're gonna be there for two weeks. So it's a nice long trip. And you know, I mean, I really love my beach time, but I've been looking for things for us to do. Right. And I thought that it would be nice to have a couples massage. We're doing it. Yeah, well, I'm I think we are. I had to email them because you know how the Caribbean is, they don't have like a book online or anything. So you email them and then they get back to you, maybe. No, they will, they will. 50-50, right? But anyway, I thought we could have a couples massage, and and so I had seen that we're gonna stay, I think, one night at the Awali Beach Resort because we had to extend our trip. It's a real terrible thing to have to extend your trip an extra day on the first and then four on the end because of the flights. If we make it on the damn plane, but that's my next pet peeve. So I just want to quickly say because I found this very interesting. So I was looking up things to do, and I was looking up the different spa treatments and such, and so at the Awali Beach Resort where we're spending our first night, they have a spa, like I guess at the beach. And then I saw the treatments that they offer. So they have like massages and facials and foot so I know where this is going. A Korean vaginal steaming. Yeah, let's do it. What in the hell is a Korean vaginal steaming? And why would you get a Korean vaginal steaming in Nevis in the British British West Indies on a beach? I just feel like there's a lot of things that can happen with sand.
SPEAKER_01Well, maybe, but maybe. I but it made me kind of jealous that I didn't have a vagina, but maybe. You know, in this gender fluid, you know, philosophy we live in, maybe I can just say that I identify with a vagina and get a uh vagina.
SPEAKER_00Korean vaginal steaming vaginal on the beach with all the sand? Yes, I think I I think I'll do that. Okay. Well, that'll be interesting. You let me know how it goes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll I'll get it for you. And and do you do you really want it? Maybe I'll do it as a surprise gift.
SPEAKER_00Says something about like hormones and balancing hormones, but I don't know. I would have to explore it a little bit more and do a little research.
SPEAKER_01I I think we should either grok it or chat GPT it and figure out you do love your AI.
SPEAKER_00But so tell me what you were gonna talk about.
SPEAKER_01So so my pet peeve, and it goes a little bit along this topic, is what what the hell are people thinking about, right? I'm gonna go on a rant here for a second. So yesterday was the third uh No King's Day uh protest, right? And um somebody in our lives uh falsely accused us of being Trump supporters. We are not Trump supporters. I am a Cleveland supporter, I am a Lindsay supporter, and it's I don't even know who accused us of that. Oh, you know who it was. Don't you remember? Their name starts with Anne and it ends with Et.
SPEAKER_00Oh, oh I forgot because I don't even pay attention at all. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01So she doesn't listen to the show.
SPEAKER_00So she she Well, and if she does, okay. She knows now that neither of us are. But anyway, yeah, carry on.
SPEAKER_01I am a common sense supporter, right? So if you do stuff that makes sense, it aligns with me. If you do something that doesn't make sense, it absolutely doesn't align with me.
SPEAKER_00I don't think that anybody falls all the way to one side. And if you tell me that you do, I just think you're lying. Yeah, nobody subscribes to every single belief of one side or the other.
SPEAKER_01Or you're stupid if you just if if you're fully Republican or you're fully Democrat. I I I'm just gonna say it. If I alienate uh guests, if I alienate us anybody in the audience for not serving your self-interests, um, I'm sorry, you don't need to listen to the show anyway, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I think if you just have your own views and your own opinions.
SPEAKER_01I think I think if you just do what the club does because you think that's what the club is supposed to do, you're stupid, right? So anyway, my big rant is okay, so third no King's Day protest. Meanwhile, TSA workers have been out of work for 45 plus days.
SPEAKER_00No, this is a nightmare at the airport. And it's weird because you just never know, right? The the the the uh queen mom went back to college last week and had no security line at the airport.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because it was probably just like, yeah, just waving people through. Look, if you're gonna protest anything, right? I'm not saying not to pro listen, go out, protest, whatever you want to protest, but why don't you protest? And I actually asked Grok this today. And Grok was like, humans are weird that they believe in tribalism, they believe in virtue signaling, they believe in let's just do something that that's flashy and makes sense, and that bureaucrat bureaucratic problems are are are just too mundane and too boring. Like nobody's gonna go out and protest your fellow human not having a job, right? Because Congress has decided to punish somebody who does not care what Congress thinks.
SPEAKER_00Well, and it's like those poor people on the job. Right. I mean, how how is this their fault? It's not.
SPEAKER_01It's like it's like Dave said it said it said it great. Congress is like, I'm gonna spank your sister until you listen. And it's like that's I remember that. Yeah. Like what? Like what is this?
SPEAKER_00No, it's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01It's it's ridiculous. So listen, next time you have a No Kings Day, No King's Day protest number four, let's actually talk about the people who think they're kings, which are the Congress people who don't care if people get paid. That's that's just me. That's my well, they're getting paid. Yeah, and they were getting private security to go through airports um while the rest of us suffered, right? And so I I I just want folks to consider right the things that you're protesting and why you're protesting them and if they actually make a difference in your life.
SPEAKER_00Correct. That's it. That's it. I agree. Well, and most protests, we've talked about this before on the show, right? But most protests don't really make sense. No. Because, you know, okay, yes, I guess what you're doing is showing your opinion. That's really all it is. But it doesn't make a difference because nobody's going out there and watching the people protesting and saying, okay, you know what? I'm gonna change how I'm doing things. It just doesn't happen like that.
SPEAKER_01So like who, like the rich people who are on high, like who who are you actually who are you actually do you think they care?
SPEAKER_00No, and I think that we talk about this in my meditation class a lot, is that like everybody is so full of opinions. So what if we just stopped having so many judgments and just worked on ourselves and went through our own lives working to better ourselves and to, you know, kind of walk a better path. Right. If you don't agree with something, right, just don't partake. But you don't have to agree with everything. I don't agree with everything, but I am open to other people having opinions. Absolutely. And I am one to say, okay, well, maybe that is your observation or your point of view or your opinion. It's just not mine. Right. But I can't say it's wrong. I can't say it's right.
SPEAKER_01Listen, I'm not the king of anything, and I'm not the end of anything, and what's right for me is frequently not right for other people. I just know what's right for me, right? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And sometimes you don't even know that. Sometimes I don't even know what's right for you.
SPEAKER_01Well, you always know what's right for me. I sure do. But I don't always know what's right for me. Yeah, you always know what's right. I think every wife, every girlfriend, and and I'm gonna, I'm gonna generalize. I've been called out for generalizing, but I think every wife, every girlfriend in the universe, every mother knows what is best for the men in their lives, even when we do not. Well, no comment. No comment. Because you do, you do, you do. As I was eating the swine that I shouldn't have eaten last night, um, you know, no comment. Really quick. Um, uh, and I do want to mention this. I know, you know, this was this guy, this fellow was a big part of your life. I do want to give, and I have listened to their podcast, the Box Eat Sucks podcast. I do want to say it, uh, Sheriff Tom, I never met you. Um, there's one you told some wonderful stories on the Box Eat Sucks uh podcast. Uh and I think you were a big part of Lindsay's life.
SPEAKER_00My younger days, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so yeah. May you rest in peace.
SPEAKER_01May you rest in peace, Sheriff.
SPEAKER_00It's a big loss.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, very sad. Very sad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So, Sheriff Tom, may you rest in peace.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think as we get older, we all start to look at our lives and the people around us and think what wow, like that could be anybody. Right? Absolutely. Right. I mean, he wasn't that old. So, yeah, it's a sad, sad day. Sad day. So, but also a beautiful day, and the sun is shining, and you know, I guess you have to think of him being at a better place now, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, sometimes anywhere but here. Um, uh, which brings me to another thing before we jump into the main topic. Whoa, did I have a crazy week? You sure did. And I'm not gonna get into the details of my crazy week, but as a therapist, thank you uh for being in my life and knowing better how to manage my life than I do, because that's what good wives and good partners do. And it's not no, it's not silly because you told me I needed to go back to therapy, and you've been telling me that I've needed to go back to therapy. And this last week um especially was challenging to me. And I was thankful that I had a therapist to talk to who was like, Nabra, you're not tripping. Right is because that's basically, I know she's uh she's an older white woman, uh, but that's the Brooklyn in me. That's what I hear. But she did actually tell me, like, Nabra, you're not tripping, which gave me, you know, some real confidence and some decisions that I needed to make um that I was reluctant to make, and it really helped me pull the trigger on something that I should have probably long pulled the trigger on.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, because you know, we had a little bit of an altercation a couple weeks ago. You know, once in a while we don't see eye to eye on things, but you had said, well, you should be there for me. I should be able to talk to you. And I said, Yeah, could talk to me, but sometimes when you have to parse through things, it's better to have someone who doesn't know you so personally. Right. Right. And so, I mean, I am, you know, I go to therapy consistently and I've been going for many years. And so I love my therapist. And I, you know, I think even some weeks, you know, you don't have so much to talk about, but it's important to have a person that you can speak to and kind of run these things by and have just another another set of ears on it. Because sometimes when you're personally involved with somebody, right, you just want to see things, you know, in the way that will make them feel the best. Right, right, right, right. So yeah, I just want to say that because, you know, I think and I think it's just important because, you know, I I I love you and I'm happy to listen to you, and I'm always happy to, you know, be a listening ear and to, you know, either give an opinion or just sit and be quiet, whatever you need from me. But sometimes, you know, I think like I want the best for you. And sometimes maybe my opinion is what I would do, not what is best for you, just because I know how I am, right? And so I think that that's it's important to have that kind of extra set of ears. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I had to recently tell a friend who said his wife sometimes thinks she's God. I was like, whoo, then meet God junior. Um, but I was like, no, I was like, you gotta understand that women, and I'm not, I am gonna generalize in this, I think women come from a place of love, right? And and sometimes that place of love might be very strong, it might be very dogmatic, but uh a good woman is really trying, as the Bible says, a good woman knows how to manage their household. And I think sometimes it it clashes with the ego when the woman, when the good woman in your life sees you going off, sees like the potential in you, sees that you're going kind of off course, and urgently tries to grab you back. And sometimes we're not receptive to it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and I think one of your strengths, and it's also, I always say, right, you often our greatest um attribute is also our greatest detriment. And you're like loyal to the core. So there's this part of you like, oh, I have to be loyal to these people, even though I'm so miserable. So I should compromise my comfort and my, you know, how I feel, and I should compromise basically my goals, right, so that I could please these other people. And that's, you know, and that's that's sometimes how I see it. And I think that, you know, while you are a very loyal person, like sometimes you have to pick what you're loyal to and realize that some of your loyalties are not going to be loyal back to you.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And and it's a it's a lesson that I had to learn this week. Um it's a lesson that I definitely had to learn this week, a hundred percent. And uh for me, um, one of my favorite book series is is uh the Cosmere series by Brandon Sanderson. And and in the recent uh book, Wind in Truth, uh, there's a character called Adolin, and he talks about the difference between an oath and a promise. Okay. And sometimes, for the sake of things, um you you might need to break a promise, right? Um an oath could be broken, but a promise stood as long as you were still trying. A promise understood that sometimes your best might not be enough. And a promise cried with you when all went to damnation. A promise can help you when you can barely stand, because a promise knew that sometimes being there was all the best that you could offer, right? And sometimes I think of promises as, you know, I gotta give more than what I can offer. Right. And and I think what Adolin was saying there is like sometimes you just, hey, this is the best I can do. And I can't give you more than the best of what I can do. Right. Right. And I have a tendency in the things that I commit to in life because, as my therapist said, hey, you're a commitment guy, you're a loyal guy, and sometimes you stick to things far past their usefulness, and you have to learn to let that go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00A colleague at NBC once told people, you know, serve you right until they don't anymore, or things serve you until they don't anymore, right? And so that's really what being loyal to something is and honoring a commitment, right? I am going to do this until it no longer works for me.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And I don't think there's anything un dishonorable about realizing that a promise that you made or a commitment that you tried to make is not working out for you, right? Um, especially when that thing, I I I I called it uh the thing that I gave up this week. I called it uh if for you guys who play video games, uh, it was an optional super boss that was not gonna get me to the end of the day. Yeah. But you get the idea of what I'm saying. It was an optional super boss that was not gonna get me to the end of the story, right? You saw you saw me playing Expedition 33 a couple of weeks ago, and remember it was like I was fighting this boss for like a half hour, and in the end I lost. Yes, yes, and I was like, oh my, I got to the very last thing, and then I was like, and I was like, Yeah, I'm not doing that again. And and what my therapist and you and even my boss at the other practice I work at made me understand is bro, sometimes life is making promises to things and then realizing I actually don't like this thing that I promised to. And it's okay to be like, yeah, I'm out.
SPEAKER_00Well, not you know, sometimes we think something is for us and it's not. And that's okay. And it's okay to change your mind. And that's, you know, it's okay if something doesn't align with you.
SPEAKER_01You know, and and and I am gonna move on, but I I was telling you about Malcolm X, and Maya Angelou said one of the greatest things about Malcolm X was that he got to a point in his life, which most people don't do, which is like, hey, remember that thing I was really super committed to yesterday?
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01I was wrong. Right.
SPEAKER_00But sometimes we are wrong. Right, right. Right? I mean, I've done things and have said, then, oh, this isn't for me.
SPEAKER_01Right. So, anyway, that being said, thank you for catching up as we waxed eloquent. Um, today's episode is Dead or Alive, Are You Awake, Are You Existing, right? And this is not gonna be a Christian episode. It's gonna be very secular-based. But I went to church today. And Charlie uh over at the church at West U, I like to say where I go, well, I won't say where I go, because then you might come there and find me. Uh, but Charlie, Charlie at the church today uh gave a whole sermon that was based on Ephesians chapter two, which was this idea about being dead in your life or about being spiritually dead. And the question that Charlie asks is have you ever looked around and thought everyone's moving, but no one doesn't really seem to be awake? Um, same routines. So you mean they're just going through the motions? They're just going through the motions. Like same routines, same opinions, same cycle. I'm gonna wake up, I'm gonna scroll, I'm gonna see what everybody else is doing, I'm gonna work, I'm gonna eat, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna repeat. So it's like autopilot. Autopilot. And what Charlie proposed is what if being dead, right? And this is kind of an ideal that I think all scriptural texts talk about is not about your body being dead, but about awareness. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_00Well, I I always talk about awareness because lack of awareness is a huge trigger of mine. So I would agree with that. I think it's I I refer to it as like a sleep in your life. Right. You just going through the motions, you're just following along, you're doing what other people think that you should do, but you're not living intentionally and doing things the way that you want to do them.
SPEAKER_01And I think that intentional living is is the piece that everybody's missing. Uh, so I went and had lovely drinks with my uh with my boss, uh, I'll I'll say his name, Phil in Harlem. And I know you said we're an odd couple. Why are Phil and I an odd couple?
SPEAKER_00I just said you must look funny together. And why? Because you're like this big, broad black man, and he's this very small, skinny, white Jewish guy. Yeah, but we're friends. I would say Phil is one of my Right, but I said you must, uh it's not even that. I just I didn't nothing negative about it. I just think it must be a very people must look at you because you know, people judge all the time and be like, wow, that's an interesting pair.
SPEAKER_01I think we were, I think people thought we were cops. I I think we were in the terror. I now that I think about some of the reactions we got, we were we went to this very urban uh speakeasy called the Terrace. Uh nice place, nice place, a little too loud for me. I'm getting old for the music. Basilico was awesome. That's like my that's my level of volume that I need. But now that I think about it, I feel like people thought we were undercover. But Phil, Phil said something very interesting to me, which was like, he's had like it in some settings that he's worked in as a therapist, the people are there, but they're not there. Like, what do you what do you suppose he meant by that?
SPEAKER_00You mean the clinicians or the the client?
SPEAKER_01The client is there, but not there at the same time.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think a I think there's a lot of clients who really aren't there. There's a lot of people that come and get stuck in their story and they don't really want to actually, you know, improve their lives. Right, right. Right. And I think I if that is that what he meant? Yes, that's what he meant. Right. Like people just want to tell the same story over and over and over again, but they don't actually want a solution. Yeah, yeah. Life is hard, full stop, right? And I and I said that to somebody. Life is hard. It is, but you know, it is, but it isn't. Right. It it's hard if you just sit there and let it be hard, but it's not hard if you just say, uh, say yes to what is, and okay, this is just today. Today's difficult. But you know, if you embrace things and just do them because they have to be done, then, you know, yeah, I mean, there's always gonna be challenges.
SPEAKER_01And so the idea that I came up with as as Charlie was talking and thinking about Phil and thinking about some other things that have happened in my life is what if breathing and functioning or even being successful wasn't still you not being truly alive.
SPEAKER_00Interesting.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, that's because you know, it may not be something that actually aligns with you. I had to stop and process what you said for a minute because it was a big sentence. All my sentences are big, but not the only. No, I'm just gonna get it.
SPEAKER_01This is a family show. I think you're talking about my car. My car.
SPEAKER_00So no, but I was but I think that people most people don't live the life that they want to live. Exactly. And that's the thing, right? They're doing things because they think it's the best thing for them or it makes the most money. And and so it's instead of actually doing things that are authentic to you, people do things because it's an expectation or someone else told them to do them. That's how that's how I perceive what you just said.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. You saw it because, you know, I I'll give you an example. I was a Jehovah's Witness, and because the Jehovah's Witnesses told me, the governing body told me to do this, right? Or if you're like a very religious person, this is because this is what my rabbi told me, or what my Imam told me. And and that's not what and that's not the message of the Bible. And I know so many people like, well, the Bible's stoic and the Bible is rigid. And the apostle Paul said he was like the Bereans did not believe. Leave me because I told them that this was true. They researched it, they looked it up for themselves, and they came to the determination that I had sayings of truth. And then they were like, hey, bro, come back over here and tell us some more. Right. And I think the idea of what Paul said in Ephesians chapter two, and this is what he said, you were dead in the way that you used to live when you followed the ways of the world, right? And Paul was not saying, like, you know, be a Christian, but when you just followed what everybody else said you should do, you were dead.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So you go with whatever the group consensus is.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah. So he didn't say they were tired. He didn't say they were off track. He said they were to dead. They were dead. So let's talk about it, right? So let's talk about this in part one, which is the walking dead, which is autopilot living. And so, Lindsay, in your mind, what is autopilot living?
SPEAKER_00Well, we just talked about it. It's just doing everything, like going through the motions. I think we literally just spoke about that for the last five minutes. Right. You're going through the emotions, you're doing what everyone else thinks that you should do. These, this is, you know, this is the message that I got growing up. This was the programming that was put into me. And so I just need to do this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think autopilot feels like comfort when it's actually you're disconnected from yourself. Yeah. Right? So, so let's just jump since we already covered that. Then what's the trap of the hive mind, right? Um well, it's just following along what everyone else tells you that you should do. Right. And and here's the crazy thing, and I think it's more true today than it ever was before, is most people don't develop their own identity. They inherit it. They get it from the culture, they get it from the algorithm, they get it from expectations. Like, what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00That the well, I think I think that that's true, right? That's that that there's people set expectations for us and they are not necessarily the expectations that we have for ourselves. Um I think as a parent, that's something that I try really hard to look at with my own children is to say that, you know, just because I have one expectation of them doesn't mean that's the expectation they have for themselves. Correct. And so I try to break that cycle with them. But I do. I think that most people do because family, especially, always puts out this message of you have to do this, you have to do that, you need to do this, right? This is what's going to make you the most money, or this is what's, you know, gonna keep you feeling comfortable.
SPEAKER_01Right. And and and the mantra that we often get, we get these mantras which say, follow your heart, do what feels good, be like everyone else, and then call it individuality. But if everybody's thinking the same thing, what does that actually mean?
SPEAKER_00And and I want you to mean that nobody is really actually thinking. Right, right. We're just but but that's like a really common thing. And I think, especially in light of what's going on right now in the world, is that it's like a whole bunch of people just taking one side. But if you actually were to look at some of those people and talk to them, I bet you that they don't even know why they're taking that side. Right. There's no critical or what's actually happening on that side. It's just that they're going with what the group is doing.
SPEAKER_01Right. There's no critical thinking, right? Um, and I don't want to take up too much time here, but like one of the great things I listened to an episode of Stuff You Should Know, it was about Malcolm X and his time with the Nation of Islam. And it was like Malcolm was a very smart guy. And when he had this idea of critical thinking and realized, like, yo, hey, I'm following the hive mind and I'm not actually following what Malcolm is doing, that he went through a third transformation. He started off as Malcolm Little, he became he learned the Nation of Islam, he became Malcolm X. And then once he found the truth and found his true self, he became Malik El Shabazz, right? And and he realized that he was being pulled and influenced by other people's ideas and that there was no critical thinking. Um, Dave once said about programming.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if you remember, I want you to Well, my meditation teacher, Sarah Swatie, talks about that too. There's a reason that it's called programming. And why is that? Well, because it's it's it's putting all of these ideas and opinions into you. Right. Right? Because any news network that you watch is going to be either on one side or the other. Right. Right. Because some people hate certain news stations because they don't agree with their political viewpoint. And so the thing is, is if you, you know, you're listening to all this stuff all the time and it's just putting all of this into your head, and then it's kind of almost telling you what you should believe.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. It's a radio program, it's a television program, it's a computer program, it's a video game program, and these are all programmings, right? Um, and I think people feel it more and more. This low level of emptiness, this constant level of comparison, comparing yourself to other people. And then the worst thing is like, ah, is this it? Is this all life is?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think people just don't believe in themselves and don't trust themselves. You and I were talking about that today when we were on a walk, right? You don't trust yourself sometimes when you, you know, because you can't step outside of that box and just be you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It's it's kind of like a phone uh with no signal and 1% battery. It's still on, it's still functioning, but is it connected to anything?
SPEAKER_00Right. On it's not really functioning fully.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then you're cut off from the real source. So here's the turning point in all of this. And I'm gonna say, you know, and this was the turning point also in the sermon today, is but God, right? And we don't have to do if you're not religious, if you're atheist, this that you we could cut out the butt god. But the butt god piece is is this is where everything shifts.
SPEAKER_00This is the part.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, tell me a little more because I don't do the whole church. Right, but this is the part that culture doesn't teach you. I'm glad you do. You you don't wake yourself up, you don't do what the capitalist says, well, grind, grind, grind your way to purpose, right? You don't, because as as as Charlie said today, he said, you know, Woody Harrelson recently said, one of the most famous and richest men in America was like, I've tried everything and I'm still not happy. Right? You don't self-improve your way to being fully alive, right? Yeah, life is what it is, right? Life is given, even when you're stuck, even when you feel numb, even when you're following the crowd. And the idea when Paul says, but God, it's like this, you need to connect to a higher level of something, right? Yep. Even Jonathan Hayde, who's an atheist, says that man has a has a God-sized hole in his heart. So when when Paul says, but God, is you have to move with intention, not with judgment, be merciful to others, be merciful to yourself, and move with grace. This is not modifying your behavior. This is a kind of like a resurrection, right? Because you're becoming aware of the higher things that you need. Interesting. Speak to that. I mean, you you've studied Hinduism and all of that, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm I don't, yeah. I mean, I'm trying to process what you were saying for a moment, but I just, I mean, personally for me, I it's hard. This is a hard topic for me because I always just do what I want.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, but uh, but but but but how about this? Can you reframe yourself in the in the context of some of the friends that you've talked to or some of the people that you've seen who are lost? You're lucky. You're a very bold and independent woman. And there are a lot of people really don't care what anybody thinks. Right.
SPEAKER_00I know. And I know sometimes it drives you nuts because I'm so fly by the seat of my pants.
SPEAKER_01Oh, very much fly by the seat of your pants.
SPEAKER_00But do but but but do you but you but have you seen the frustration for me is people who tag along all the time. Right. Right. Who who don't know who they are and have to that's what you didn't want to have away the barking dogs. Um it's fine. There's not even anybody here. But I think it's I guess I could speak to it from my own life, right? Is that I know a number of people. Like I'm very lucky to have two really great best friends who are like super accepting of me, and I'm really accepting of them. And we're all, you know, it's interesting, right? Because you know my two best girlfriends, right? Denise and Laurie, and like all three of us couldn't be more different from one another, right? Like we're completely different, all three of us. Like, I think, you know, we have, you know, but we have what we do is we support each other and we love each other and right, and we have a really great bond and a great friendship. It's people who have to be a part of the crowd at no, you know, at and at their own expense, even. Right. And so, you know, when we talk about, for example, I think I was saying to you that there's, you know, somebody that was in my life that was kind of like a mean girl. And and interestingly, like was upset if I separated myself, you know, if we were in a group somewhere and I separated myself and did something individually or did something with you, there would be comments about it. But, you know, my thinking in that moment was like, but if we were sitting there with the group with you, you wouldn't even have paid me any attention, right? And I and I said that like when we, I think I mentioned when we had gone out for dinner one time when Artie's was still open around the corner and we were at the bar, and this person wanted to go and, you know, first of all, didn't want a table because only old people sit at a table, whatever the hell that means. Right. And then wanted to sit at the bar, but then everybody couldn't talk to each other, so went to the table, and then this person sat at the head of the table and commanded the whole thing and stuck me in a corner. And it's like, you know, you want me to be there because you don't want me to be doing my own thing. And so I think some people are really uncomfortable with people who are confident and secure and independent. And right, even I think I've told you about um, like when I talk about the kind of work I want to do in the future, and I have people that are like, oh, maybe I should do that too. No, why don't you do what you want to do? You don't have to do what I do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, one one uh I I will say part of the problem that happened to me this week, right, is that I work in a setting that just wasn't conducive with me, where I couldn't be me, right? And my therapist helped me understand that there's all types of healers. Like a pediatrician can't do what an oncologist can do, and an oncologist can't do what a gynecologist can do, and can't do what a cardiologist can do. And she was like, you have to understand that you are a certain way, don't stop being who you are to conform with what this place wants you to be, and then tries to blame you when you aren't, you just you don't enjoy the work, you can't do the work that they that they want you to do, and and that's and that's not fair to you, right? And it goes back to this idea, and I and so if you don't understand this concept that life is given, we said it in the car yesterday that this particular person that you were talking about, we're in the most beautiful place in the world. And they were like, Well, I can't walk on the beach because I'm in my high heels and I have to keep a certain image, right? Yeah, they're spending hours blowing their hair out. Yeah and everybody who later on went and was like, Well, I don't know what they were talking about, was like, was like, well, this person's mind is too busy to actually stop and be alive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right? Yeah, absolutely. And that's you know, for me, I tried to just be present. And, you know, I think I said I'd rather be barefoot with my hair occupying three zip codes to take in present, you know, the sunset in the present moment and and to just be there, not with anything in my hand, not with high heels on, not with a hair straightener on in my hand. I just want to be there and I want to be in the moment. Right. And and I want to realize that because that moment, like right every single moment never happens again. This moment right now, right here, will never happen again in the same way. And so, you know, we can either be present and realize that there's so much crap in our lives that doesn't even matter, right? Or we can get sucked into this whole thing of I have to be this and I have to look like this and I have to wear these shoes. And I think, you know, I mean, that to me was like this so stupid. It's like I don't who even brings high heels to the Caribbean, but anyway, yeah, it's a topic for another day.
SPEAKER_01But but uh Americans do, right? Because Americans are programmed. Well, no, many are programmed into thinking this is how I have to live. We are the greatest nation on the planet, and every nation at one point or another have thought they were the greatest nation, but you have to be flexible in your thinking. When you're doing what everybody else tells you to do and you're not being yourself, you are stuck, you are numb, you are following the crowd. But when you live life without judgment, when you live life being merciful to other people, and when you live life with grace, that is coming into a level of awareness. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um a new identity, right? Which is this is where everything changes. And and this is where it goes where being alive isn't just about feeling better. Because if it was about feeling bad, I don't know. I think you feel better when you're dead.
SPEAKER_00Well, we we talked about this in another episode, I think, when we talked about Krishna Das saying that like that our our culture here in America is to keep people kind of like asleep in their lives, right? Right, and to keep people unhappy. Um no, being alive doesn't always feel better. Right. And one of the things that I love, right, and we talk about Buddhism a lot, you and I, because you know, we we share like I one thing I love about you is we can have conversations about all these different things. But, you know, one of the things about Buddhism and one of these ideas is that Buddhism teaches you to increase your tolerance to unpleasant things, right? And that's also uh, you know, one of the ideas in mindfulness meditation is that, you know, unpleasant things are gonna happen, but we have to learn to just say yes to them and to allow them to be there. They're not gonna be there forever, right? And they're going to, you know, things are gonna ebb and flow. We're gonna have great days, we're gonna have bad days, things are gonna happen that are gonna be really hurtful and hard for us. But, you know, the idea is that we can be awake and we can feel them and we can experience them.
SPEAKER_01Right. You you once were talking to a friend on the phone uh that I was listening to, and they were like, Oh, but the food shortages and you don't understand what's going on. And you you remember this, right? Yes. And I said to you after you got off the phone with a friend, that person watches too much TV.
SPEAKER_00Well, and that's what I had said to the person too. It's like turn off the TV. Right. And and so one thing I noticed with a lot of my good friends is that the people that are actually real connected friends to me is they don't watch the news either. Right. And so we get little bits of things from hearsay and from, you know, maybe seeing something on social media or seeing a headline somewhere in passing. But yeah, I mean, I just I I I just like to be with myself.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. You know, in in in the Bible, the Bible constantly teaches this idea of putting on the new self, right? And the Bible, sometimes people think it's this mystical book that's full of myths, and it's the Bible is actually one of the most original self-help manuals that are out there. So when Paul talks about being made, becoming a new person and dying, he's talking about being raised up, he's talking about being made alive, he's talking about being recreated with purpose. So this is not just about going out and finding yourself, which is eat, love, pray, but it's about redefining yourself at its core. And to and you, Lindsay, who's somebody who studies what, Hinduism?
SPEAKER_00Well, no, I I mean I don't study any of it. I just it's Buddhism, right? Because a lot of uh Buddhist principles are in mindfulness meditation, and you know, I'm very much into mindfulness and meditation, and I do a lot of reading of these, you know, Buddhist scriptures, but I wouldn't say I'm a Buddhist.
SPEAKER_01But what is that? What how does this align? How does this idea of being redefined and reborn align with Buddhism, which is you're actually taking a whole meditation?
SPEAKER_00It's just that things are constantly changing. Right, right. Right. And so then we're changing. And and we don't have to be the same person from day to day. We're allowed to change our mind. We're allowed to have an experience that shifts us or makes us think differently.
SPEAKER_01And and I think one of the hugest problems in our culture today, yes, Republicans, yes, Democrats, is you do not become alive by copying what everybody else is doing. You become alive by stepping into who you were created to be. What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's, I mean, that's really how I live my life. It's it's that you're living authentically and you are able to do the things that you want to do.
SPEAKER_01And not for anybody else, but just for yourself. Right. And so for me, that means, and I've worked with clients and friends in the past, is like, hey, you're not the sum of your you're not, you don't don't live in the past. My sister who likes to say, don't drive in the rear view, right? Right. You are not the sum of your mistakes.
SPEAKER_00We were talking about this last night when we went to dinner with Hunter, right? Is that and and he was laughing when I said it, but then he understood it. When I tell my clients that your story is not valid, the thing that happened to you 15, 20 years ago, five years ago, six months ago, even yesterday is no longer valid. It is no longer valid. What's valid is the emotion and the experience that you take away from it, the thing that stays with you every day. That's what's valid. But the actual experience in your past is no longer valid. It's over. Right. You can't go back and change it.
SPEAKER_01You you get to offer your own story, right? Right. You are not a loser because other people told you a losers, and you're not a winner because other people told you you're a winner.
SPEAKER_00You are not also who would even say that to anybody? I mean, I just, you know, I don't think it's our job to tell people about themselves like that. I mean, I do like to tell you about yourself.
SPEAKER_01Oh, all the time, but all good wives do. Um, some, a segment of good wives. Uh, thank you a little bit. Carry on. Carry on. And and so it's it it I I want to talk about being intentional, right? Because you're really good at being intentional. Hunt said something really good about Tyler the other day, which actually surprised me, where Tyler was like, hey, I'm not gonna sleep with this beautiful girl because I want to be intentional with my life. And and and so when the Bible, and this is what Charlie was kind of saying, that when the Bible talks about sin in this way, it's not that these things are wrong, it's that these things are are without intention. And when you live without intention, you live without purpose. And when you live without purpose, you are dead. Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_00Well, because you're just not fulfilled, you are not happy, right? Right? You can't, when you're not, you know, when you're doing for everybody else and not for yourself and you're not in the present moment, you're just like life is going by and you're missing it.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And so let's talk about being awake in your purpose and how to break that pattern, right? And I think the important question is to stop asking, which is something that I asked myself for a long time, and especially in this religion that I grew up in, right, which falsely said, Well, we can't disappoint Jehovah and we can't disappoint Brother Jenkins and we can't disappoint Sister Johnson.
SPEAKER_00I was doing things But then you disappoint yourself because you're sacrificing what's important to you and your authenticity for acceptance.
SPEAKER_01So I was doing things in the aspect of what do people expect from me and what should you be doing? What's the question that you should be asking yourself?
SPEAKER_00What do I want? Right? What was I made for? Yeah, what's important to me? What aligns with me? What is my purpose? And you know, your purpose can also change too.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. So so this is where the hive mind and the programming and all the internet stuff loses its power is you don't have to chase everything. You don't here's here's something even more important. You don't have to react, and you've told me this to everything. Talk about that.
SPEAKER_00We do it's not our job to tell everybody things, and so we don't, not everything needs to be said. And we can watch things and let people have their own experience because again, when we always constantly offer an opinion or criticism or feedback, then it's getting that person to actually maybe sacrifice something or compromise because they want to do something that aligns with what we think. Right. And we don't always have to say something. And I and I you and I had this conversation recently because this is a thing with with us, right? Is that some people in this household are not comfortable with sitting in their emotions. And so would that be me?
SPEAKER_01Because there's only two people here these days. Well, there's a third one today, but uh okay, or or the dogs. I don't think the dogs are comfortable sitting there.
SPEAKER_00Right, but but but right, because the the per the thing is is that you have to get comfortable with sitting with the things that are uncomfortable for you. Yeah, right. Because when you are not like that, then you want to bring everyone down with you. Right. And and so, and that's why, like, right, hurt people, hurt people, right? Right? That that's saying, right? And it doesn't even have to be that something happened to you, right? It could just be that you're having this emotional experience. And then when you want everyone to be in that same place with you, and sometimes we don't have to do that, we just have to learn to sit and figure out why it's unpleasant to us.
SPEAKER_01Right. And one of the things you've said to me, which Hunt was like, yeah, I have seen him do that, is I don't need to get everybody on my side, right? Because you don't need validation for everything, they're everything you do. And talk about that. Because I think sometimes where people fail is they need they like people go on the internet, and you were just talking about it just now about somebody that look at all these pictures this person is posting. Because what are they what are they seeking when you're posting all of that?
SPEAKER_00Attention, validation. You want attention, you want validation, you want people to tell you all these things about yourself because you don't feel them.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And so you have to be more intentional. Purpose isn't about one big moment, it's not about posting on Facebook, it's not about going on a No King's Day protest because everybody's telling you what it's supposed to do. It's about being in daily alignment. And purpose isn't something that you find once, it's something that you live on purpose every day. So I want to move on to our last part. Like, what does this look alike? What does this look like practically? Right. Um, and for me, I'll tell you what being alive means for me. I I walked into church this morning and I I don't know. I had the biggest smile on my face, and the dude at the door stops me and he was like, Oh my God, you're the only person to walk into this building today with a smile. He's like, Everybody else in here looks miserable. Like, what is going on? And I just was like, I just I know who I am, right? I know who I am. I I've had like and I've become more and more aware of who I am. You know, one of my boss used to say, Cleve has cleavisms, right? And it's true. I have cleavisms, and it it is what it is. I don't want to hurt nobody, and I'm I and I don't want to be selfish. I don't want to be that prick that's driving up the road, but I am me and I'm happy with who I am, right? Right. Somebody once asked me, Well, you're not respecting pronouns. And I was like, hey, wait, wait, wait, wait. My pronouns are Cleveland, Cleveland, and Cleveland. Like, I don't need to label myself to make you happy. So that's something I learned from you, but I want you to talk about that really quickly. Why are you happy every day?
SPEAKER_00Because I don't care what anybody else thinks. Right, right. And I I have great boundaries, and I am I really just don't. It's not that I don't care. I care. There's a lot of things I care about, but what I don't care about are other people's opinions. And if you don't add value to my life, then I don't need you in it. And, you know, I What I care about is that I'm happy, that I'm fulfilled, and that the people around me are loved. And that's that's really the most important thing to me. Right. Like I'm really good at, you know, shutting things down and doing the things that I want to do and taking care of myself. And that's why I'm happy.
SPEAKER_01And one of the things, especially in these last couple of years.
SPEAKER_00I mean, what did I say to you just the other day? I was like, what are you gonna do for self-care?
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And that's what I was getting ready to jump into because one of these things, one of the things that one of the points that you've actually been uh questioning me on as I was committed to this thing that I that, you know what, I I want to say that I should have never been committed to, but as everybody in my life has said, sometimes, and you said it on the dog walk, I give you credit first and foremost because you said it on the dog walk today. Sometimes life is about learning about the things that absolutely don't work for you, right?
SPEAKER_00100%. Right. We so it's and it's equally as as valuable, maybe even more valuable, to learn what's not right for us than what is. Right. And I know that living in the Caribbean is right for you.
SPEAKER_01It's it's I've I've given up and that's what we're gonna do one day. Um, you know, but it's about questioning the things that you do daily, right? Questioning this thing that I do by default. Do I actually need to do it? Do I need to work all the time because I feel like it's something that I need to do? Right? Yeah, absolutely. And it's choosing being depth over distraction, right? And one of the things that you do that I really love, um, because you live by conviction, right? Like you be like, damn it if it works or damn it if it doesn't. And tell people about that. Why is it that you found the strength to live by conviction and not by what's convenient?
SPEAKER_00Well I it really, I you know what? I I I did a lot of work on myself for a lot of years. I did things in my younger days that didn't align with me, and I did them because other people told me to do them or they were expected of me. And I was told, you need to do this, you need to do that, you need to be successful, you need to have all these things. And and I did them and I was so deeply unhappy. Right, right. And so I made a lot of decisions, compromising my authenticity for acceptance with the people, right? Whether it was family, whether it was friends, whatever it was. And then when it all fell apart and I had to put on my big girl pants and do it on my own, right? I had learned this whole lesson of like, you know, you really don't need anybody else. You only need yourself. And it doesn't matter if other people agree with your choices or approve of them or not. But the only person that I have to report to at the end of the day is me. And, you know, I I went through a lot of change and it took a lot of years to get there. But I think what keeps me going, and I was talking about it with my mentor a couple of weeks ago when I had a meeting with her, was that there's this, I have this sense of freedom, right? And I want to see how free I can feel and how free I can be. And so the more that I meditate and the more that I increase my tolerance in my tolerance to, you know, suffering and to unpleasant things, the more free I feel. And I I really just so badly want everybody else to feel this freedom. It's such like a wonderful and beautiful thing. And I I mean, I just absolutely love it, right? And I never, I sleep at night, I never go to bed and think like, oh my God, I did this or I did that, and someone's gonna say X, Y, and Z. And I don't, you know, I speak up for myself when something doesn't feel right for me, or if someone speaks to me in a way that is kind of crossing boundaries.
SPEAKER_01You quick for that. But you and Hunt, I think, are aligned in that.
SPEAKER_00Even right with work situations, if someone says something to me, I have no problem saying, listen, like I adhere to a set of boundaries in my life and this is violating them. And, you know, and and the thing is is that I I can't think of a time where anyone turned around and then actually came back at me about it or had anything to say about it, right? Because I but that that's what makes me happy, is like I have no problem. I know who I am and I love who I am.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Um, in in in as we as we wrap up, I you said you didn't know um the song control, right? But there's a very popular Janet Jackson song from the late 80s.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I probably know it if I hear it, but you know, I with any kind of TV, music, whatever it is, I am not. Like I'll you'll find my nose in a book before you'll find my eyes on a screen.
SPEAKER_01But when as as we as I was thinking about this topic and I was listening to what uh what was being said, uh the sermon about being dead in your life, it made me think about that lyric from Janet Jackson, and I just want to quote it. When I was 17, I did what people told me. I did what my father said, and I let my mother mold me, right? But that was long ago. But now I'm in control. And I think most folks, many folks, I don't wanna, I don't wanna I don't want to generalize, but I think many folks don't actually want to be in control of their life, and it's scary, it's scary to be in control, right?
SPEAKER_00It's it's scary to be like well, because in any day, any given day, it might not work out. Right. What's interesting for me is that if it doesn't work out, like you, you I think get nervous that if it doesn't work out. And for me, I'm just like, oh no, it's okay, because then I'll just find the next thing. Right.
SPEAKER_01And and and I and and I think the other thing it's it's important in what you've helped me realize is sometimes you need to step away from the noise, right? There's there's absolutely but that's where what that's why I love to be alone.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, do I love to be alone? Sometimes you come downstairs and you're like, what are you doing? It's like dark and you're sitting on a sofa.
SPEAKER_01I I'm I'm becoming less and less aware. I keep a tangential sense of what's going on in the world, and I think about you know, the things that are important to me. We're we fly a lot, so this TSA issue is a huge issue to me.
SPEAKER_00It is, but you can't do anything about it. So one of the things.
SPEAKER_01But one of the things, one of my patients actually sent me something about why travel is important and why travel is good to mental health, because it helps you see other aspects in life, and especially when you go to places where peop where things are much simpler, where there's not a lot of TV. And it's not saying that these people don't have problems, but these people are connected to life.
SPEAKER_00These people are happier, these people are more present in their lives. Right. No doubt. You know what? None of the people that live in the island are wearing high heels on the beach. Yeah. Cowboy. I'm gonna write a book called High Heels on the Beach. Oh, boom, there you go.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna high five you I know you don't like high fives. I hate high fives from you. I prefer kisses. Well, we can't, we're across the we're in the studio. I knew so handsome. I'll give you a telepathic kiss.
SPEAKER_00Got your beard trimmed yesterday. You look handsome. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Very well.
SPEAKER_01That reminds me of Miss Bacon, who is who who Miss Bacon is a uh uh a caseworker I have to work with in my other job. And she said to me on a day that I was having a very typical day, which a very tough day, which made me laugh, was like, oh my god, you is beautiful. I said, Miss Bacon, that is actually what I needed to hear. Um, but I think these simpler places, they are connected to what keeps them alive. You like Survivor, right? Yeah, and I think Mike White said it best, this is crazy, this is terrible, but this, but having to come out here and be on the grind and having to figure it out every day makes me feel alive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, think about it. I mean, there's nowhere more present than being on a remote island with nothing. Right, right, right. Right. I mean, talk about why I mean that's why a lot of those people go crazy, right?
SPEAKER_01And and and at the end of the day, the whole I think everything about living intention, if you believe in the Bible, if you're atheist or if you're whatever you are, I think the most important thing is staying connected to the source of life. And that is not just on occasion, that's being consistent. And I think the source of life is being aware of who you are and why you are. Because it's easy to drift away. Right, right? Yep. It's easy. And awareness takes what? You always tell me it takes what? What drives you crazy about me? Because awareness takes what? Intention.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what you're yeah. Well, I mean, I yeah, I don't always say it like that. So say how you would say I just say that you have to do things intentionally, you have to be present, you have to do things for yourself. You always do for other people. It drives me nuts. I love you so much, but like do for yourself, have faith in yourself, trust yourself. I told it to you when we were walking today, trust yourself to make choices without other people helping you make them. Yeah, make them because it aligns with you or it doesn't align with you. And and and and for for the love of God, do the things that you love to do because life is short. Right. And so it's like stop wasting time on other things and do what you want and what aligns with you and what fulfills you.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's my relationship with religion and Jehovah's Witness is very complex because I remember a time in my life when I was a Jehovah's Witness and I was doing what the Jehovah's Witnesses told me to do. It looked like my life was great, right? But internally, internally, I was disconnected. Um, and nothing at that point when the brothers are saying you should find meaning in this and meaning in that, it just it just wasn't. Right, and that's nice.
SPEAKER_00Should, should, should, you should, you should, you should, you should. Never is it like, wow, think about this. See if it aligns with you. Maybe it doesn't, and then try something else, right? When you're part of an organized group like that, it's often like this is the way it should be.
SPEAKER_01Right. Um, since you opened, I'll let you do the close. So, what are the lessons that you want the audience to take away from this?
SPEAKER_00Well, like figure out who you are and be who you are, like and stop listening to all those other voices around you. Sometimes things aren't gonna be okay, and sometimes you're gonna make choices that don't align with you, but just that's okay, make a different one. Right? But like sit and and be and be quiet without scrolling, without reading, without watching, without listening, and just be be with yourself, see what comes up, right? And increase your tolerance to the things that feel unpleasant for you.
SPEAKER_01And and the question that I I ask is um, am I awake or am I just moving, right? Yeah, you know, it goes back to what Phil said, right? Am I into therapist's office just because I think this is, you know, like my new therapist said one of the things that she thinks is wrong uh with it with modern therapy is people watch these these uh commercials from BetterHelp and Talkspace and think that I'm just gonna go to therapy and the therapist is gonna give me all the answers. And and they don't realize, like, you still have to do the work. It's like going to the gym and being like, okay, you go to work with a trainer and you do nothing that the trainer tells you to do. Right. Nothing.
SPEAKER_00And then you're expecting results.
SPEAKER_01And you're expecting results, right?
SPEAKER_00Right, and you can't expect happiness and contentment in your life if you're doing everything that everyone else tells you to do and you're not enjoying it.
SPEAKER_01Right. Because there's an exist there's a difference between existing and being alive. And that's all I got.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's all I got. We gotta feed our visitors.
SPEAKER_01Who asked if he could spend the night and kind of Oh he did? No, he said, Do you want me to stay the night? And I thought I heard you say no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00What do you do? I don't even I didn't even hear that conversation.
SPEAKER_01Oh, maybe.
SPEAKER_00No, I was cooking him just.
SPEAKER_01Oh, maybe that was just a fever dream.
SPEAKER_00No, I gotta go tend to my tofu.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so let's go tend to the tofu. So this has been Lindsay. And this has been Cleveland, and this was another episode. What the devil you don't know. See you next time.
SPEAKER_00Keep you heart up.
