Unapologetic Swingers

Unapologetic Swingers: Episode 10 - A New Beginning

• Unapologetic Swingers • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Tramp:

Welcome back to the unapologetic swingers podcast. I am the tramp and guys, I know it's been far too long. There have been some changes in unapologetic land. Just to get this out of the way because I know you're accustomed to listening to two of us, Lady has decided to go in a different direction, and unfortunately, I do not anticipate her coming back. So, that's all I'm gonna say about this, but, the format's gonna largely remain the same, just so you guys are aware. The biggest difference is we will have some rotating co hosts, which I'm lucky enough, to join me. And I'm very thankful to have them. So, this will ultimately be episode number ten, which I've titled, A New Beginning. And tonight I'd like to introduce J and L. So they are some of my very dear friends and they're going to, I guess, tell us about their origin story. Origin stories are unique because everyone's is unique. I know, you know, back in the day ours was unique. And if you ask any random couple in the lifestyle, chances are. Everyone's going to be a little different. There's no cookie cutter or anything of that nature. So I will just let you guys take it and run with it.

Jay:

Okay. Well, first I'd just like to say, thank you for letting us into your lovely home. I love what you've done with the place. Of course. Ellen, I have been in a lifestyle for just about five years now. We've been together five years plus three weeks. You guys can figure that crazy math equation out. She brought it up on our very first date.

Elle:

Yep. Sure did.

Jay:

Why did you do that?

Elle:

Well, I was going through a divorce and I had been dating again and part of the people that I had spent time with had brought up varying degrees of what I know now is the lifestyle. I had an ex boyfriend that I had a conversation with that asked me what was something sexy that turned me on that maybe he could help me out with. And the first thing that popped into my head was two guys As

Jay:

in an MFM? Yes. Okay.

Elle:

For sure. And that was something that always turned me on. And then that really didn't go anywhere. So I didn't think much of it until I started dating a guy I think it was off of Bumble. And on his profile it said, I'm tired of the vanilla life and I'm looking to be freaky. So one of my first questions I asked was What does that mean? Yes, what is freaky? And he told me. And he described the lifestyle, he described our local club, the Scarlet Ranch. So much that I know that he was there. Had been there because having been there now. The details of the upstairs, like a restaurant, bar, downstairs, where the playing happened. So I know he'd been there. But bless his heart, he called it the strawberry ranch. So I know that he really didn't get very far into the lifestyle. And I can't say that I've ever seen him. So I'm sorry to say that I sort of jettapolted, I don't think that's the word. Catapulted into it, whereas, you know, he did not, but I wish him the best. And then I met Jay on a first date. We are a Match. com success story. And we, met on a first date and both said,

Jay:

both said, we're never getting married again.

Elle:

This is true. So I thought this is perfect. And a

Jay:

year and a half later in the middle of COVID, we got married.

Elle:

Oh, spoiler alert.

Jay:

Yeah.

Elle:

And so on our first date, we're sitting in the bar and we're getting along and hitting it off really well and talking about this and that. And at one point I asked him, have you ever heard about the lifestyle?

Jay:

And I kind of stopped short because I had been for half a minute in a previous life with a horrible, horrible partner. But I pledged to be 100 percent honest in my dating life. So I told her what I knew, explained it over about five minutes. And she looked back at me and she goes, so what you're saying is. I can have the variety of multiple partners and the security of a committed relationship. And I mean, that just floored me. I'd never heard it summed up that well. I just went, wow, put that on a bumper sticker, you know? And well, the date just got better and better after that.

Elle:

Yeah, so much so that when he walked me to my car and was giving me a goodnight kiss, it was one of those that stops your breath and the lightning is striking and the electricity is bouncing off all the buildings and we took a step back with our eyes sort of jostled and went, wow. And he said, I will call you. And I went, huh. And got in my car hoping I could make it home. And that started off a great week. You know, went on a date. That was Tuesday, so we went on a date Wednesday. He made me dinner Thursday. We had sex that night. Which was amazing. And had a date Friday night. And the whole week, he's telling me, I have some friends coming over for dinner on Saturday night. They're coming down from the mountains, so they're probably going to stay the night. I'm like, okay, okay. And then, you know, wasn't getting an invitation. To said dinner with his friends and I was a little puzzled because I am delightful

Tramp:

Yes, you are.

Elle:

Oh, I wasn't sure and then I realized oh wait yeah, he he's gonna be the third in this dinner date and All right I'm saying to myself, you know, you've got to be okay with that, right? This is something that was planned before we'd even met

Tramp:

But in the larger scale process, how you feel about that? And as I found in my experience, oftentimes you have your knee jerk reaction, and then you pause and you kind of digest it a little bit. And you may say, you know, okay, I could work with that. Or it's still could be a hell no.

Elle:

Right, right. And for me, I was, I was okay with it. I'm like, okay. I'm, you know. I could be dating multiple people. It's not a whole lot different than that. Not getting married again. That was put out there by both of us. And, you know, I just wanted to be alright with it. I went out with a girlfriend that Saturday night and had a good time. And Sunday morning comes and I send him a text, a little good morning.

Jay:

You're going to jump right to that.

Elle:

I was going to

Jay:

real quick before you humiliate me to the large audience listening, not my

Elle:

fault.

Jay:

I had an outstanding time with my friends. I'd been with them before. It's a MFM situation and she just absolutely loves it. But apparently all I did the entire evening dinner and sex was talk about L and how amazing she was. To the point that when they were leaving, they said, we can't wait to meet her. So close the door. They decided they were going to drive back up to the mountains. I went to bed. Then the next morning,

Elle:

I send him a nice little text saying good morning. And I get back, Oh my God, last night was so hot. You were so sexy. And I went, Hmm.

Jay:

I was not awake. I had an old style flip phone. I was not wearing my glasses And I didn't see that the font had changed color from my friend to l texting me So she said

Elle:

I wrote back wrong person

Jay:

You could have heard me scream the f word From the other side of the city. I thought I had absolutely blown it

Elle:

Meanwhile, I'm chuckling to myself. I'm like, that was pretty funny and I'm okay. And so he immediately writes back, Oh my God, I am so sorry about that. What can I do? Please let me make you dinner. Let me talk. Let's talk about this. Let's talk this through. I'm like, sure. I like to eat. I'll come over.

Jay:

Yeah. That's that part of health class in fifth grade where they take the girls aside. One of the things they tell them is don't give in too quickly, make him suffer.

Elle:

So I went over for dinner. He cooked me a wonderful steak dinner. It was lovely. We talked about it. I let him know that I, I had figured it out previously. I was not put off by it. And he brought up Love 101, John and Jackie Melfi that own the collect clubs down in Texas and Louisiana, they do a podcast on, YouTube where they'll take topics regarding the lifestyle and talk about it and, ways to prevent it or how to talk through it or how to be better prepared going through things. So we started watching a couple of videos a night, you know,

Jay:

there, They're five minutes tops. And it's like three things you need to know about inviting another couple over or five things. If it's your first time at a sex club or how to maintain connection with your partner in a group situation. I mean, but there are five minutes down to the point his, his side, her side. See you next week kind of a thing.

Elle:

So we, we listened to him and we would talk about it and talk through it. And how would we handle this? And is this, something that's interesting? And at one point he looked at me and said, is this something you're interested in? And my thought was, yes, I absolutely am. I am open to this.

Jay:

So I picked up the phone. I called my friends up in the mountains. I said, when can you come back down? And they're like, next week I go, perfect. And three weeks into our relationship, we had our first full swap with another couple.

Elle:

Wow. Yep. Just dove right in.

Tramp:

Now, how did you guys establish, you've already established the communication, obviously, but with the relationship being so green, how did you develop that trust? Because trust is an integral part. You have your boundaries, you have, every couple has their boundaries, well for the most part. But, how did that develop for the two of you?

Elle:

That is an excellent question. I don't think we've ever thought about that. I think that it all developed As we went,

Jay:

it was organic.

Elle:

Yeah.

Jay:

We had both come from sexless marriages, hers of four years, mine of the last 10 of a 25 year marriage. And I mean, I was dating, I'd been single for about three, four years, girlfriends here and there. So I was, I was enjoying my sex life and you were looking forward to enjoying your sex life. And so I think we just walked in together and said, I got you, you got me. Let's Let's have fun and we'll learn as we go. And if we make mistakes, we'll talk about it. And, we always believe in full disclosure I

Elle:

think it was part of the process was the open communication. I've never had that with anyone. previously, where it was so open, we talk about everything and even the uncomfortable stuff but we just kind of dove right in and it seemed like we did it, checked a lot of boxes as we went for those first couple of months,

Jay:

which I Don't recommend to most people getting started,

Elle:

right? It can be overwhelming.

Jay:

Don't check boxes just to check. Hey, we've never done this before. Let's do it. We've never been to this kind of party before. Let's do it.

Elle:

Yeah.

Jay:

Slow and steady might be a better way for a committed couple. It

Elle:

seems like we've done it the opposite way of some people. They start off slow and steady because they've been in relationships and they need to. feel that out. Whereas this was the beginning. This is how our relationship started. And so I think it was do something, talk about it, talk about it, go do something, you know, and back and forth. And, and there have been plenty of times where we went and did something, went out with a couple. And after the evening went, yeah, we need to not do that again. You know,

Tramp:

we've all had those things.

Jay:

We're learning to communicate better. Right, you know both with each other and with whoever we're paired with for the evening, you know, yeah Something's not working. It's not working and why push a bad? Yeah, but you're when you're new you're afraid to say no you're afraid to to call things out Yes, you know we most recently we had a a newish couple over And they were just so excited and this was all new to them that it wasn't working Time out Let's stop, let's go downstairs and shoot pool, which is, it doesn't have to be anything right now. And yeah, we did that for another 40 minutes and they, by then that took the edge off and then they were ready to run back upstairs and we had a, we had an amazing time. Yeah. So

Elle:

yeah,

Tramp:

I think you touched on something very important with the communication. You have to be able to talk about things openly and quite frankly, not hold back, right? Just in, and what I mean by that is. not worry about hurting your partner's feelings.

Elle:

It has to be a safe place. I mean, I learned that definitely in my first marriage. Sorry, this is number three, but so I've tried it a couple of times. But it didn't feel safe to express my feelings in my first marriage. Therefore I never shared them until finally 20 years later I just blew up and I'm never going to do that again because I will never get to that point with Jay. And even when situations have been a situation of jealousy, maybe I've said something at that moment, but within 24 hours I talked about it and we talk about it every now and then and he's more aware and then therefore does something or doesn't do something. Because I might feel uncomfortable, but not in a bad way is, but we continue to discuss it. So is this something that's okay? Yes, I'm fine. Now we've had the situations where I've said, yes, it's fine. And then later on, it wasn't, he's like, so then later I'll say, yes, it's fine. He's like, this feels like a trap. So, you know, we've had to remember that party. We've had to work through those sorts of things too.

Tramp:

In my experience in the lifestyle, when those situations occur, you always have to approach them, I think, with a mindset of grace, right? Where, okay, I said it was okay. I have to take that responsibility a little bit, but again, you have to communicate in hindsight, no Gustav. This

Elle:

may not have worked.

Tramp:

Yeah.

Elle:

Yeah.

Tramp:

And then not hold it against. Yeah.

Elle:

No. J

Tramp:

in this case.

Jay:

No. Right. Well, and I think we can all agree. If your partner says, I don't like X, Y, or Z, and you acknowledge that, okay, we're good. But if you then go and do X, Y, or Z. Well, that's kind of, that's kind of crappy. That's kind of a betrayal. Either you're saying either you're being selfish and it's all about me and I don't care if you get your feelings hurt or I'm not listening or I'm hoping you don't find out. You see it, it starts spiraling downward.

Yeah. Yeah. So if

Jay:

one person says, I don't like X, Y, or Z, and you see yourself starting to go down that road, you've got to stop because my partner says, no, this will hurt my partner. This will hurt my partner's feelings. And therefore trust and acceptance and communication with your partner, the absolutely most important thing in the lifestyle.

Elle:

Yes. Agreed.

Tramp:

I agree too.

Elle:

Yeah.

Tramp:

But I think we got a little bit derailed there with your, with your story or was that kind of the, the long and short of it?

Elle:

Oh, the, the origin story. Oh, that, I mean, from there. So this was the end of, it was December of 2019. So we jumped in, we went to a couple of house parties, we went to an event at the ranch, and we went to Vegas, and we had set up two dates while we were in Vegas, and this was the first week of March, 2020, so COVID was just beginning. Ramping up and starting to shut things down. So that was interesting

Jay:

where I worked when I got back from Vegas And I caught a cold on the flight And some of the guys were just paranoid screaming get him out of here the hysteria was just Yeah, it was ramping up.

Tramp:

Yeah, it was ramping up

Elle:

and then a week later everything shut down, but We had a good experience in Vegas and we had a not so great experience in Vegas. By the way,

Jay:

if you can choose have the not so great first, that way you end on a high note.

Elle:

Yes, and that is how we did it. Totally unintentionally. But you know, even in that short time frame, we put a lot into it. We got on Cassidy. We started talking to other couples. It was super sexy. It was fun kind of exploring what we liked with each other, what we liked with other people. And then when Covid had, it became a lot more online communication of talking with people, and then as Covid started lightening up towards the end of, That year started having more face to face situations. So definitely dove in feet first, but we had nowhere to go. I admire couples who've been in marriages for 10, 20 years and just get into the lifestyle

Tramp:

and,

Elle:

and what they've had to maneuver and work through with their own relationship. And then get to a point of that trust and that openness and being able to share their fantasies and what they find sexy and being okay. And then watching somebody else do it, is that compersion element changes things. Well,

Tramp:

and then there's that very first step that is honestly the most nerve wracking step, especially in a committed relationship where you bring up the topic of the lifestyle. Oh, yeah.

So one of the things we always ask when we meet a new couple is, how long have you been in a lifestyle? And it was always whose idea was it? Cause that's always a story in itself. Cause you never know everyone. Oh, it's the guy. The guy is a horned duck. No, sometimes it's the woman. She wants variety. She wants multiple men. She wants men of a different color, different flavor. She has a fantasy of two men. Is that, is that your favorite? That was my gateway drug, but okay. Your gateway drug is two men at one time. Not where we started, but we've certainly got there. Yeah, but, you brought up compersion, and I think that's an important thing for your listeners. I mean, at one end of the scale is jealousy, the green eyed snake. Yeah. The monster monster. And what is that? That is fear that someone else is going to take what is yours. Yeah. Replace you. What is the polar opposite is compersion where you have so much love for your partner. It gives you pleasure to see them enjoying themselves. There is no fear there. You are just incredibly happy turned on to, to watch them live their life to the fullest and you get to be a part of it. Yes, I can admit I'm extraordinarily compulsive. So I truly enjoy, I'm not going to sit in the corner necessarily and go that way, I can enjoy the show for a little bit before I get involved. Yeah, for those listening who haven't met Tramp, very tall, handsome guy, not a stand in the corner looking shy kind of guy. No, I like to be involved. And right now guys, we're going to pause real quick and tell you about one of our sponsors, which is Shivers. It is an edible CBD derived sensation enhancer. And there are two specialized formulas, one for men and one for women. And let me tell you, these things are pretty amazing in my experience. They typically kick in after 30 to 60 minutes and personally I get a huge energy boost but even better every touch is magnified. It really does send those wonderful shivers right down your spine and it doesn't end there. Not only is the pleasure increased from the touch but the next day I just feel up or wake up feeling great not all groggy or hungover. In a lot of instances, this may actually replace alcohol for me and lifestyle situations. I just feel good. I'm relaxed and just everything is better, especially when I get a chance to play. We'd love for you guys to try them out and we've arranged a special discount at shivers dot store on any of their products. Just use the coupon code us for unapologetic swingers at checkout for 10 percent off your entire order. can also be found on our website and be sure to let us know what you think. It's pretty obvious. We think they're amazing. Now guys, thank you so much for jumping in here as my guest co hosts. Our pleasure. I forgot to mention the first part was the unapologetic story and this part is kind of the unapologetic honesty and it's really going to merge together. But I'm really asking some of the biggest lessons that you guys have learned in your time in the lifestyle. I'll let you guys go ahead and take that. And then I have one additional question that was brought up earlier that I kind of want to explore a little more. Okay, a quick one. When your partner says it's time to go, it's time to go. Don't fight it. Don't push back. Don't, but I was having fun or I wanted to do this or I wanted to do that. If your partner says it's time to go, go life goes on, you'll have other opportunities and that other opportunity will probably have the blessing of your partner because you'll earn respect by listening and saying, okay, that's what we agreed to. Yeah. Your partner should always be your number one priority. Agreed. That was a good one. I was almost puzzled by that, but that's a really good one. And that sort of lends into, the communication aspect, is having that conversation and going into any situation. I think that one of our biggest conversations we have before we go somewhere, whether it's a party or the club or we're traveling or whatever, is, To not have expectations. Don't go into a situation Building everything up in your head of what's gonna happen. I want to do this. I want to do that I expect you to do this because I will guarantee you those things probably won't happen So if you go in let's go in to meet some new people Let's go into this to find out something new about a friend Let's see where the evening goes And at the very least, we come home and we have amazing sex and we reconnect and it just makes us feel good and sexy. And that's a win. That should always be a win. I agree, yeah. Yeah, when you go in with expectations, you're right, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Yeah. Some of the best experiences that I've had to date. You are 100 percent correct in the sense that the goal is to have a good time, not to play, not to experience X, Y, or Z, just meet someone new and feel good. Yeah. Have a good night. Have a good experience. I tell Elle all the time, we go to our favorite club and if I just have an attractive woman walk by and give me a smile, made my night. I don't have to be downstairs at the bottom of a puppy pile. I mean, happy to nice when it happens, but, to just have that little, someone found you attractive. Someone said, you look nice. Somebody gave you a compliment and you're like, okay, my ego got stroked. I don't necessarily need more than that. It's true. Love it. Now, the one question or one point that you guys brought up early on in the conversation was the separation of love and sex. And I think at least to the outsider vanilla world, that is not something a lot of people even comprehend. I have people that listen and send me emails that say, Hey, we're just starting to explore the lifestyle. And. Here are some of our hangups and how do you separate, because oftentimes in the vanilla world, it's one in the same. Yeah, good point. And I think that's part of why I think we worked. out so well at the very beginning because we didn't have that love aspect yet. You know, it was it was sex. I could have sex with him. I could have sex with you. I could have sex with other people. It's like i'm dating a couple of people, that isn't there But once you get into that love relationship and trying to separate it it is Maybe you look at it as more of pleasure and Love and pleasure can come from any number of sources. One of the things we try to do before we leave the house for a new event, especially we went to a big house party a couple weekends ago, is to pause before heading out the door and say, I love you and you love me. And no matter what happens tonight, that is what is the most important thing in the world to me. And then, you know, the whole back to the XYZ and somebody saying, it's time to go. You've already reestablished the most important thing in the world is your partner and the pleasure that comes from playing. That's great. And if they see, you see your partner having a great time or your partner sees you having a great time, that's great conversation for the drive home. And then reconnecting in bed with the person you love. And, having sex and talking about, Oh my God, you looked so hot right. And then they're like, you like that? Did you, Oh God, yes, that was hot. And boom. Yeah. You know, and then you're, and then you're having morning sex the morning after, you know? So yeah, love and pleasure are important and they do go together. We were a little different because we started with the one before the other. Whereas long term married couples or committed couples go the other way. So to your newbies starting out, just keep reassuring yourselves of how much each other matters to you. The other thing that you brought something up, Jay, is every time we go out, whether we're on our way in the car, before we leave the house, jail, say, let's have fun. I love it. And it just sort of sets the tone for whatever we're doing is, yeah, that's That's really the bottom line bottom line isn't you getting laid me getting laid or you know This couple we really wanted to get together with you put too much pressure on that All we want to do is just have fun. We're gonna have fun tonight. Yeah, that was a good time And that's really it Love it guys well J and l thank you guys so much for Coming on with me this evening. Pleasure was ours. Happy to do it. And getting the podcast here back on track. It's going to be a lot more regular from here on out. Luckily I have quite a few guests lining up, so I appreciate everyone. There's going to be no, AMA this week because kind of been offline for a couple months now. But just thank you for coming on the journey with me. And please feel free to reach out at unapologetic swingers@gmail.com. You can also find our website@www.unapologeticswingers.com, and you can contact us there. There's a link to shivers there and all of that good stuff. The next episode is to be determined and I'm just so happy to be back behind the microphone and so are we. Thank you. Mm-Hmm. us too. So L is going to help me out here. So wait, what are you talking about? You'll enjoy it. Just sit back. So everyone, thanks for listening until next time. I'm the tramp. Be sexy, be confident, be unapologetic.