Unapologetic Swingers

Unapologetic Swingers: Episode 11 - Things we learned the hard way

• Unapologetic Swingers • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Elle:

Welcome back to unapologetic swingers. I'm L

Tramp:

and I'm the tramp. I'd like to welcome L back as my guest co host. Once again, I'm very appreciative of having you back in the co host seat.

Elle:

Well, thanks for having me. Glad I didn't disappoint.

Tramp:

Not in the slightest. So guys, what we're going to do is, well, let me just do a little recap. This is the unapologetic swinger podcast and we really talk about things that we have been through and we've been some sexy stories from our own experiences. Now, sometimes these experiences are great victories and sometimes they're the agony of defeat. If you get that reference. But this is going to be episode number 11 and it's going to be titled things we learned the hard way.

Elle:

Yes.

Tramp:

We all have those experiences where you go in with the best of intentions and sometimes the wheels just come off in a horrible way.

Elle:

Yeah, but that's how we learn. And that's how we can adjust. And if you have the right amount of communication, you can get through it and you're stronger for it. And you eliminate that possibility later on, hopefully.

Tramp:

Well put. But I think Elle's going to start off with her unapologetic story first. And I'm really interested to hear this since we haven't really talked about it yet.

Elle:

Well, this is an early lifestyle show. experience that Jay and I went through. We had been dating for a couple of months and we had just come back from Las Vegas and it was February of 2020 and COVID was really starting to ramp up and Things were starting to shut down, but we had a Saturday morning where we got up and a couple that we had looked at on Cassidy had started chatting with us online. And there seemed to be some interest and we had looked at them previously and they look like a very fun, sexy couple and we were kind of excited by it that they had reached out to us and had wanted to meet. And as the day went on and the conversations happened, we decided to meet that evening at a bar near my house and get to know them. And we were very excited. So we get there a little bit early. Like I said, COVID had just been starting to ramp up and there was almost nobody in the bar, but that was probably nice. For us, we just sat at a table. We saw them come in. Our first impression of them walking in was, Oh, Well, the pictures on their Cassidy profile seem a little old. Oh, no. And they looked a little bit more, shall we say, weathered. Then we had anticipated, but okay. So you're saying

Tramp:

the pictures were dated.

Elle:

They were dated. Yes, very much. So like, oh, oh, okay. And so they came over to the table and we introduced ourselves and started having a conversation. And as the evening progressed, realized that she probably had just found out about this date, maybe an hour before. We actually met them. So she wasn't part of the conversations through the day and she didn't seem that excited to be there. And he seemed very excited to talk about himself. So just so you know, this is a couple that we fondly refer to as Ken and Barbie because they had presented themselves as this beautiful couple. Weren't quite there, but it just seemed to epitomize them. They've thought fairly well of themselves and their college careers. He played basketball. She was a cheerleader. And so they were how shall I say, very, very kind of full of themselves. And like I had said, he spent a lot of time talking about himself, but we were still Pretty excited to be there had a couple that was seemed interested I offered for the four of us to go back to to my house because I lived about a mile away And there they came over and what we quickly realized when we were there is that Barbie? Was not quite as interested in J and As Ken was interested in me and there's

Tramp:

an automatic imbalance, if you will, they, they were clearly not on the same page.

Elle:

They were very much not on the same page. Looking back, we would have made some decisions differently throughout the evening. But as it was, we kind of followed through with it. The four of us went to the bedroom. Ken and I played and Barbie and Jay. Kissed a little, played a little there, just, she basically just sort of lay there and wasn't engaging at all. And I think that Jay felt very awkward throughout the process. Yeah.

Tramp:

From a guy's perspective, if there's no response of desire or anything, I know personally, yeah, it's a turnoff. It's, it doesn't do it for me. And, and I don't, I would never want to make someone feel like. I'm making them do something that they truly do not want to do.

Elle:

Right, right. Exactly. And I think, there wasn't a whole lot of activity on their side of the bed. On our side of the bed, he was very interested. We We had had sex at one point and Jay and I are very big proponents of condoms safe sex But then there was a second time he was trying to enter me and I realized he did not have a condom on So at that moment, I was like, whoa. Whoa. Hey, whoa, you know we use condoms and You know just sort of it almost killed the mood at that moment Looking back, I think Jay would definitely say he would have stopped things at that point. And just asked them to leave. Because we discussed it. We told them we were very condom friendly and that was how we played. And they didn't respect that. So there were a lot of situations. I think the evening ended. Not too long after that and they went on their way and Jay and I looked at each other and went, yeah, we need to not do that again.

Tramp:

isn't it amazing, particularly early on the the situations you find yourself in and you just kind of go with the flow. But then since you're learning about Jay in this scenario. And kind of your likes and limitations. You're still in that learning phase. So sometimes you're right. I, we've been there where it's like, yeah, let's never do that again.

Elle:

Right. And, and as you look back and you start to dissect what had happened, you know, we could see the different time periods. There's a lot of points where we could have made a different decision. Sure. And what is the diagram where you know, you start with the box at the top and it's yes, no, you go right or left and then you go like a flow chart. Yes, like sorry, I couldn't think of it a flow chart. Yes, a flow chart but where where would we have done it differently? Realizing at the restaurant that she had just found out about it. This was not something that she necessarily was on board with. We could have, you Had a drink and some appetizers and called it quits right there. Getting to my house and he's, Ken's kissing on me and Barbie's not really wanting to kiss or do anything with Jay. We certainly could have called it then at that moment too. And politely said, things just seem a little bit off. Maybe we should take a rain check on this Definitely as play was progressing and as soon as he tried to enter me without a condom We should have stopped it right then.

Tramp:

Yeah full stop full stop.

Elle:

This is not cool. This is unacceptable You know what? We're not jiving Let's, cut bait. Well,

Tramp:

yeah, especially when someone can't respect your boundaries, right? Everyone's different, but

Elle:

exactly, exactly. And, and Jay by no means wanted to disrespect her boundaries and was trying to be conscientious of that and courteous, but also trying to figure out what might have, might work for her, kind of a thing. We refer back to that a lot. When we're talking with new couples in the lifestyle and we definitely have always wanted to be an open book for somebody who's just getting into it. And we have plenty of stories that can go either way. And it's important to let people know and understand that you're going to make mistakes, that things are going to happen, but how you talk about it later can seriously, positively affect how dates or situations go. And so what we have found, we're a little bit better of, okay, first off, like we, we talked about last time was no expectations, not going in saying, okay, you know, we're getting laid. Right. It's not necessarily going to be that. It's like, well, let's just get to know another couple and see where it goes. And if it's really going well and everybody's driving well, well then, then let's take a look at where we might take things. Or is this just an initial, Get to know you and then we can build some anticipation and have a date later on that really moves things along nicely.

Tramp:

You know, we have played on the first date before, and I think in those situations it was because there weren't any red flags and because the communication was just fantastic. Right. Across both couples.

Elle:

Right. And being aware of the, maybe the subtle messages that they're sending to each other too, try to pick up on that. And, and ask questions. Sometimes it's okay to say, Hey, where are you all feeling at with this? You know, cause we're very interested, but just want to know where your comfort level is.

Tramp:

Yeah. There's no need, especially if all the signals are green I don't see a reason to beat around the bush. And if you're interested and if they're interested, fantastic. Let's take this to the next level. If not, No problem.

Elle:

Great getting to know you and hope we get to see you again sometime at the club or at another party, you know, and go from there.

Tramp:

The thing is with those situations, as long as you end on a high note, right, there may be another time where they introduce you to some of their friends,

Elle:

right?

Tramp:

And they say, Hey, we didn't work out, but this is a great couple. They're respectful and I want you to meet them.

Elle:

Right. And who knows for whatever reason, we're too old and they're looking for couples that are in their thirties or, you know, we're not that old, just so you know, not terribly, not at all. Definitely don't feel old. But you never know. It could be someone doesn't care for facial hair. It could be, you know, just

Tramp:

something so minor. Yeah. That it's not a big deal, but it was enough of a deal breaker and that's cool. That's Again, you should never do anything. You don't want to do

Elle:

right? It's right. You never know why someone is saying No, it's really hard to Not take it personally.

Tramp:

That's true.

Elle:

But Trying to be aware of, of, that it might be something else that has nothing to do with you. I have a, another story. It's not exactly a mistake, but it's that miscommunication thinking somebody was going one direction, and rejecting us, but it turned out it wasn't. And there was a couple that we met at the club a number of times. We had talked to them. Super fun, super sexy. And We were going back and forth. They had gone on our Cassidy profile and came back with, well, I think our play styles are different. Well, we took that personally as, We've shown them something that they didn't like and they rejected us for that. Mm-Hmm. only to find out down the line that Oh no, we only, we play side by side. We don't actually swap. Oh, we don't even do So we only do

Tramp:

parallel play.

Elle:

Exactly. They only do parallel play, but they find it sexy to be around other people and they have kids. And when they go to the ranch, you know, they're downstairs right away because they don't get to have sex without. The fear of somebody knocking on the door at any time, and they want to get that out of the way and they find it sexy to be around other people having sex. And it really made us stop and realize, Oh, this had nothing to do with us. This wasn't a rejection of us. This was 100%. This is how they play. And so it really gives us a pause to think about Well, it doesn't have to be that it was a rejection of us.

Tramp:

I think most people learn very quickly when entering the lifestyle, you can't take things personally yet. You have to grow a little bit of a thicker skin and because rejections are going to happen or no thank yous or. You know, granted, most people have a little bit more tact, but quite frankly, some don't and that's unfortunate.

Elle:

Right. And again, you can't take that personally because that's on them.

Tramp:

Absolutely correct.

Elle:

And, we look at it as well. It's kind of their loss. We're very fun. So, that if it doesn't jive up, it doesn't jive up and we move forward. There's so many more people in the lifestyle than I ever possibly imagined. So somewhere there's going to be a good fit. Oh yeah. Usually multiple

Tramp:

good fits,

Elle:

right?

Tramp:

In a couple of different places. Well, Elle, thank you for sharing that one.

Elle:

Yeah. Do you have any stories like that? I do.

Tramp:

I do. So guys with Lady Departing I'm just going to keep on telling our stories and this one was fitting. So my story is to never assume your partner can read your mind. And this was from a takeover in Mexico. It would have been 2022 2023. It was a multi day takeover and it was great and we were down there with some of our local friends, a group of us and met all kinds of great people. Didn't really connect with any other couples or anything. I should also. Preface that this was couples only there. There weren't any singles. Okay, no single ladies. Yeah. Yeah, no single ladies. No single guys but there were these two couples from Canada that The two guys definitely took a liking to lady. Mm hmm. Understandably. So yes, she was beautiful and It may have been the last night,\ so everyone, you could just feel the energy rising. I think this was a five day takeover and the energy levels are rising and everyone is starting to get a little antsy ready to rock and roll. And we went up to a dedicated playroom and we went to check it out and it with our friends and I guess a penthouse type what the playroom was. so they had segregated it with curtains and they had, all kinds of fun stuff in there and they wanted to go in, into the room. It was the group room where all the action was and so me and the gentleman, we're just kind of sitting on the couch, just taking in the vibes and the girls went in they said, Hey, we're just going to go check out this room real quick. It's like, no problem. Just let us know what's going on in there. But then they didn't come back expecting him to come back. And they didn't, didn't come back. And so me and the gentleman are looking at each other like WTF, what is this? Cause we're like, okay, we're a minute, two minutes. Three minutes and

Elle:

this was the couple from Canada where these were friends that you were there with no

Tramp:

No, these were friends that we were okay there with okay that were that were part of our our bigger group Okay,

Elle:

got it. Got it

Tramp:

So we had history with them, we communicated. Well, we'd played with them in the past and it was all good But then The other gal came and got the guy and said hey come in here And so I'm left sitting on this couch in this, you know, a little awkward.

Elle:

And where's my wife?

Tramp:

And yes, where's my wife? And I'm starting to get this really uneasy feeling. Oh. And it was eventually the guy came out and said, Hey tramp, come in here. And I walk in to find the two guys from Canada basically double teaming her Okay, and she was on her knees giving them a double blowjob Hadn't talked about it. Hadn't done anything of that nature and I just decided I was hurt I, and I probably should have stopped it. I should have raised a ruckus right there and said, this is outside of our boundaries and should have stopped it immediately. But admittedly it was pretty hot to watch, so I let it go. And yeah, they proceeded just to have their way with her. And I have to say that it was, it was arousing. But it was very disturbing at the same time. Right. It would have been very different. I think if she would have said, Hey can I go play with the Canadian guys? Right. I would have just popped out for just one minute. And I would have been like, hell yeah. Right. Go have a blast. You weren't part of the decision. No, I was not part of the decision. And I think that's what stung the most. Yeah. Yeah, She, had a cock in her pussy and one in her mouth at all times and they just, kept going and had a good time. She apparently had a very good time, but it was that I don't know if she thought I would be okay with it.

Elle:

Or she just got caught up in the moment. She

Tramp:

just got caught up in the moment. That's, that's always possible, but it was always a little bit of a point of contention, I think.

Yeah.

Tramp:

It was never resolved and, I've made mistakes too. I'm, I'm no angel.

Elle:

Right. I think we all do. Sometimes, again, you get caught up in the moment and you don't realize where you're at and you're just enjoying the moment, but unless you bring it back after that situation and say, okay, this is what happened. This is how I felt. How can we avoid that in the future? Right. Can we have a signal? Yeah. Like, you know, that, that we're going to do something or if you had taken 30 seconds to come out and say, Hey Tramp, I got a situation here and I really want to go enjoy it.

Tramp:

And that would have been perfectly fine.

Elle:

And that would have been fine. You thought that the ladies were going to go walk into the playroom, walk around, come back and go, Oh my God, that was hot. Let's all go. Fuck.

Tramp:

Yeah. You know, precisely.

Elle:

Yeah. And it didn't happen. And then you were left.

Tramp:

Yeah, I was left holding my dick in my hand. I wasn't

Elle:

going to say it, but yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah.

Tramp:

So that was one of those things where again, she could have gotten caught up in the moment. That is perfectly possible. I know I've been on that side of the equation before too. But if I see it hurts my partner, I own up to it. Right. Because you. are a team at the end of the day, right? It should be the two of you basically versus the world,

Elle:

right? And, and I, just as I know, Jay is more than happy to watch me playing with someone else because that turns him on so much. There have been couples where he has asked me because for whatever reason he doesn't quite jive with them. He says, I just, I asked you not to play with them. And that's been hard a couple of times because, we'd be flirty and touching and it's like,

I really like

Elle:

them. So, on the other hand from that, I've tried to spend more time working with him to get to know them better to then be okay with it. And the other night he said, okay, it was Halloween and he's like, if they're there and you're feeling it, I want you to know you can go ahead and go. And, but we'll always kind of start, whether it's a Sunday, Funday and we're going over or it's a Friday night or something. And we know it's going to be busy and crazy. And we may not have that moment to grab each other and say, Hey, I'm going to go downstairs and play with this couple over here or so and so asked me to come down and be with them. We try to give a blanket. Hey, it's okay. In that situation, if you can't find me, if you can find me, that'd be great. But if you can't, you know, you've got the permission to do that. The

Tramp:

understanding was already in place. It's not like you're. to circumvent it or, or just, just ignore your boundaries altogether.

Elle:

Right. So yeah, you're not a single, you're part of a couple. And that means that everybody's got to be in agreement. And that goes for Ken and Barbie. They should have had some sort of agreement, but we should have also looking back at what we could have done differently is had a little bit more conversation. Hey, Barbie. When did you find out about this date? This could have been light hearted and oh, about an hour ago, okay, so you need a little bit more time to get caught up on who we are and get to know us and see if this is even something you want to, want to do. But that was three months into the lifestyle me as opposed to five years into the lifestyle me who hopefully would try to have more of a conversation with her as well to make sure that she's feeling comfortable.

Tramp:

Oh, without a doubt. It's funny how steep the learning curve is, at least initially. And then, you get the gist of everything and you can start to see these things almost a mile away.

Elle:

Oh, with other people? Oh, for sure. Like, oh yeah, they should have not done that. I mean, we have, we have friends that They had kind of a negative situation at a party. They were at a house party. And they were, in a group room. A room with a group of people playing. And while he was having sex with another partner, called out that partner's name, which is not necessarily something he does with her, and it hurt her feelings. And she tried to say something to him, but he was too busy having a good time. So she was so unhappy. She called their 17 year old daughter to come pick her up. And that was at about 1030, 11 o'clock at night. The daughter picked her up. She went back home. He didn't show up at home until 2 a. m. In that situation, there should have been a lot more conversation. Right. And we tried, we tried. to talk to them. It's like, oh, well, you guys, need to talk this through because you can't sit there being heard about it and he can't sit there not realizing maybe where he had messed up.

Tramp:

Sure. A pure situation of reading minds and You just

Elle:

can't. Yeah, you can't. You have to talk about it. You

Tramp:

have to.

Elle:

And when people have had situations and they're frustrated, oh, so and so did this, well, okay, have you talked about it? You know, that's, the answer to 99 percent of the problems is to talk about it. Yes. And. Work it out and come to an understanding about what you'll do moving forward because you can't go back in time no, you can't go back and and Relive that moment and do it differently But what can you do the next time that you're in that situation? I've

Tramp:

mentioned before that especially when you're new, but I think this never really stops because you're Going to kind of come across new scenarios new situations unique situations You you have to approach it particularly in terms of your partner with a little bit of grace, right? Unless it's Just so far outside of your boundaries that or there's no repeat

Elle:

offender

Tramp:

or repeat offender. You're right But to say okay be be able to unpack it afterwards and say, that really just wasn't cool Can we not do that? Again, or not have that scenario happen again because it, it really bothers me. And it's funny. Sometimes it can be just like in the situation where he said her name and to other people that may not be a big idea, but there, there are going to be times when you see something and it just hits you the wrong way. And you just can't quite understand. Why?

Elle:

And sometimes that situation on another day is fine, but today it was not fine. And that's, when you get blindsided by things like, you as my partner would be thinking, well, holy cow, we did this two weeks ago and it was okay with it. Why is she upset today? And she may not really understand why it upsets her today. And that's okay too. Again, as long as you're talking about it. And go, okay, so the next time I'll look to you for guidance on how you want me to act on this situation because I want to make you feel comfortable. Of course.

Tramp:

And by the same token, it could have been one of those things where, I had a long week at work and you have to take a little bit of responsibility. Yes. That situation was perfectly within our boundaries and perfectly acceptable. Why I got a little emotional about it. I don't know. And that takes, that takes some self reflection too.

Elle:

Oh, I 100 percent agree with that because yeah, sometimes you're, reacting. Because of something outside and that's not their fault. No, they need to know that too. Like, ah, okay, well I was kind of the asshole on this one. We're all assholes sometimes. Yeah, exactly.

Tramp:

Well guys, I think we jumped right into the unapologetic honesty and kind of what I want to hammer home there is I think the communication is just so paramount. Before, during, and after.

Elle:

Oh, that's what I wrote down. Oh, there you go. We're on the same track because it is. And it, and it's ever evolving and it's ever changing.

Tramp:

That's true.

Elle:

And so you have to be aware of that. And if you are, and you continue to talk about it, you'll get through it better. You'll navigate it a lot better. get stronger. Yeah. Which it amazes me the amount of communication that people have that couples have that are in the lifestyle that. People outside of the lifestyle can't comprehend.

Tramp:

Correct.

Elle:

And you know, I've, I had two marriages before. Marriage blew up after 19 years with the first one because I didn't feel it was safe to communicate. So I never really shared my feelings until one day I blew up and never had a blow up J and I, because we talk about it. Before it even gets to that point. And so I think that's one of the most beautiful things about the lifestyle is the ability to hone those communication skills. So like you said, for sure, before you go to an event, during the event, the check in everything, okay, how are you doing? Are you good with these people? Is there anyone I'm not, it's, it's not okay. Or any situation that's not okay afterwards. Okay. That was really great. Except for. A sure, or yes, that was perfect.

Tramp:

You fine tune.

Elle:

Yes. And you're better for the next time.

Tramp:

There you go. All right, guys, I'm going to take a quick break here and tell you about one of our sponsors, which is shivers shivers is, a edible CBD derived sensation enhancer. And there are two formulas, one for men and one for women. And let me tell you, these things are pretty amazing. For me, they kick in after 30 to 60 minutes, and I find that I get a nice energy boost, but even better, every touch is magnified. It really does send those wonderful shivers right down your spine. But it doesn't end there. Not only is my pleasure increased, but the next day I wake up feeling great, just not all groggy or hungover. In a lot of situations, particularly lifestyle situations, this will most likely replace alcohol for me. I just feel good. I'm relaxed and everything is better. We'd love for you guys to try them out and we have arranged a special discount at shivers. store on any of their products. Just use the discount code US for unapologetic swingers at checkout for 10 percent off. A link can also be found on our website at www. unapologeticswingers. com and be sure to let us know what you think. It's pretty obvious. We think they are amazing. Well friends, we do not have AMA this week. Hint, hint, I did not get any emails. So please send us some emails and let us know, what questions that we kind of kind of answer on the fly. I hope to have L back for, a couple more episodes at minimum, as long as she'll put up with me. Yes. Ask,

Elle:

ask the burning

Tramp:

questions. Yes. We can be reached at unapologetic swingers at gmail. com or through the website, the www. unapologeticswingers. com. And wherever you happen to be listening to us, just write us a quick review. It'd be so helpful. And the next episode is to be determined, but it's bound to be a good one. I've, I heard a rumor that L and J may be going on a cruise here in a couple of days.

Elle:

Yeah. Heading to the bliss cruise. So I'm sure we'll have some stories.

Tramp:

Fantastic. Well, guys, thank you so much for joining us and

Elle:

until next time, I'm L

Tramp:

and I'm the tramp.

Elle:

Be sexy,

Tramp:

be confident,

Elle:

be unapologetic.