Unapologetic Swingers

Unapologetic Swingers: Episode 13 - A Single Man's Journey

• Unapologetic Swingers • Season 1 • Episode 13

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The Tramp and Elle are back with a special guest to talk about navigating the lifestyle as both a partnered and single male.

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Elle:

Welcome back to Unapologetic Swingers. I'm Elle.

Tramp:

And I'm the Tramp. And guys, we are so pleased this week, not only to have Elle back as the guest co host but also we are joined by Sean this week, who is a single male in the lifestyle and has quite frankly, a fascinating story that I personally can resonate with, but hopefully A lot of you guys can too, from all the aspects.

Elle:

Excellent. Well, I'm excited that we have Sean here today because we've known Sean for probably going on four or five years. Most of the time that we've been in the lifestyle and just getting to know him more and more in the last couple of years. And he is a fascinating, wonderful, polite, thoughtful Interesting human being and as we were looking at, you know, people that we could talk to and to get on the podcast, he was one of those that Jay and I talked about that we really wanted to see if he'd be interested in getting on and hearing his story because I think it is different and intriguing and some people will relate to it and some people won't but maybe have more of an understanding for someone else who's in a different situation than they are.

Tramp:

You know, if you think about it, we're all in slightly different situations.

Elle:

Yeah.

Tramp:

Whether you're coupled, single, poly, all of our situations are unique.

Elle:

And going back to topics that we've talked about before, communication is such a big part of it. And then knowing someone else's story and what they have gone through and where they're at is all part of it.

Tramp:

Mm hmm. But without further ado, Sean, welcome. Thank

Sean:

you very much., for the introduction, I was I hope I can live up to that, that I appreciate that.

Elle (2):

Yeah.

Tramp:

So Sean, if you don't mind kind of give us an overview of your experience, how you got into the lifestyle and where you're at now.

Sean:

Sure. So. My wife and I originally got into the lifestyle. We weren't even married at the time. We had been talking about the lifestyle for probably several years and we didn't even really think about it being as the lifestyle was just more pillow talk about bringing in a third or another couple or, or something of that sort. So it wasn't even really anything that was in our vision. It's actually sexy talk. Yeah. It was just more. You do stuff to get each other hot and heavy. And then after that you just kind of went about your day. And then eventually we were. Getting into our pretty much rut life. We had been together for several years. It was the same thing over and over again. You take care of the kids, get them to practice, go to meetings you know, do your job and then come home, get dinner. And then after that sit down and watch TV, go to bed, rinse. Right. So you guys were out of the honeymoon phase. Yes. Oh yes. So she had the strength and courage to one day come to me and say that she was bored. She had at this point, she had really, I didn't know how I would react to it. And the way she came to me, I can tell that it was more than just bored with, that day. So we had been working on our communication a lot and got to a place where we could both bring things to each other without being defensive and also focusing on what the message is how the other person is feeling. And then also making sure that we validated those feelings whether in those situations we agreed with, How the person was feeling or thinking or not didn't matter. It was more about understanding that that's how they felt in that moment. And then really kind of getting into the, the deeper parts of it. So when I did ask her, tell me more she went into more of like our sex life, our life in general. It was easy for me to then take a step back and realize exactly what she was talking about and realized I was bored too. From there we discussed a lot of different things. We went into more kink a little bit of CNC or consensual non consensual non consent. A lot of other things which really kind of spice things up a little bit. We would go started going out in the middle of the week just to get out of the house. And then you shook

Elle:

it

Sean:

up. Yeah, we needed to we, we needed to shake up just otherwise we just would have been sleepwalking through our lives and then wake up one day and wonder where everything went.

Tramp:

Well, it truly sounds like that level of communication is quite frankly, at another level, being able to take something that she approached you with at that level and being able to really think about it. Even a lot of lifestyle folks aren't there yet. They're just kind of flying by the seat of their pants. So that's awesome.

Sean:

And it just kind of took off from there. Once we, started getting into the really listening to each other hearing what we both wanted and then One day she came to me and said that she wanted me to go and sleep with another woman and then Come back and tell her about it Well, I had been in a previous marriage with a very manipulative individual and It's a trap.

Elle:

It's a trap. Right. Yeah. A little

Sean:

gunshot. So I would, I would just smile at her, nod my head and say, Okay baby, and then we'd just move along our day. But she kept bringing it up at different times. It wasn't in the same day, or in the same week, really, but it would happen over and over again subtly until finally she said, you don't believe me. And I said, no, I do not. I said, I think it's something you think you want me to do, but when it happens that it'll be something that you'll blame me for. And there's no going back. And there's no going back for that. So she decided to show me. That she wanted me to, so she immediately opened our laptop and started creating a OKCupid profile for me just as a regular single male unattached. So essentially, at the time, I didn't realize it, but we were catfishing. So Oh, because she was Because she's doing the Oh yeah, that's

Elle:

not good. Okay. Okay. Hahaha.

Sean:

But she started creating this profile, and as she's creating this profile for me, it immediately starts getting these IMs from women. And then she starts chatting with these women as me. And at that point, that's when I said, well, this is gonna happen. And that's when I asked her to move out of the way so I can go ahead and run my own chat with these women. Within four days, I had a date. And I saw a woman and we played and I came back and told her about it. And she was very excited and pleased and we had phenomenal sex after that. And that's where we then started really talking about the lifestyle and really getting into what do each of us want from that? And so we created a profile on adult friend finder. I

Elle:

heard about that.

Sean:

And, and my personal experience it is not the greatest place to begin or even start. I have heard that too. Not too many friends,

Elle (2):

but,

Sean:

From there a couple of members who were members on Cassidy. Suggested Cassidy and they invited us to a Rocky Mountain party That was going to be happening. And so we did and it was really nice and it was just say it was an older couple but it was really nice to have someone kind of Not really mentor you but at least be there and be nice and kind of tell you a little bit more And help you learn about this thing that we never really understood

Tramp:

I think that's something that stands out generally speaking about the lifestyle is you always have those older couples or there's one couple here locally that I refer to as kind of the mayor. And he's the first one, he and his wife to just welcome you and talk to you very unassuming and just make you feel. Jay, Jay does

Elle:

that. And I'm always so amazed at him at the ranch that he'll spot the people wide eyed, looking like a deer in headlights. And we'll make sure to go over and talk to them, give them a tour if they need to, or answer any questions, introduce them to other people, and then gentlemanly walk away, or bring me over and say, Hey, you need to meet these people. Like Saturday night. Yeah, it's helpful. Yes, and

Sean:

it helped us relax a little more I didn't just understand and get a get a little bit of a better feeling And then from there and talking to them we started to kind of formulate How we wanted to go about the lifestyle. Yeah now Like a lot of couples out there we went into it with a laundry list of rules

Elle (2):

Been

Sean:

there, done that. We were only going to date couples. And, and at that time we were afraid of going to the ranch. We had the visions. And

Elle:

there's going to be an orgy.

Sean:

We had visions that it was eyes wide shut, asses and elbows all the time. And that if you went in and you weren't a part of the group, you were going to be an outcast, right? So we're, we decided date couples and we thought that would be the easiest thing. And as a lot of people know out there, dating couples, dating couples is probably the furthest from an easy thing that you can do.

Elle (2):

Sure.

Sean:

There just has to be a, you have to have a lot of green lights for something like that to work out.

Elle:

All four have to be connected. Everybody's got to be, have a schedule that works together. Yeah.

Sean:

Well, and once we would find a couple, it would be then we'd have all these other, sets of rules and things like that, that we had implemented. And we've eventually found out that having a lot of the stuff that we had there did not make sense at all. And it proved that it actually prevented us from experiencing the lifestyle. We did find it extremely difficult to find couples that we Either we both liked or that they liked us or that everything went well. And then there are even times that everything's great in a just typical social setting. But then when you get down to sex and just even kissing, there's an incompatibility somewhere. And not to mention the scheduling, A lot of times it's, well, we've got to plan things out two or three weeks in advance for a hotel on this specific Friday or Saturday, which isn't the Very sexy sometimes, especially for who my wife was very anxious. She would get a lot of anxiety and get stressed about things. So yes, in the moment when you're planning, she's on board, she's ready to do this. But then as that date gets closer and closer and closer, there's a lot of anxiety because it's now no longer a get to it's a half to, and so we kept, finding little I guess pits and, things to have to navigate as we were going through this until we decided to finally go to the ranch and we went on a Wednesday night and at that time they were doing new member dinners. So that's when you could actually reserve a spot. And they would have a table, a large tables. And we were sat with about two other new couples and then one gold member couple.

Elle:

Wonder where they stopped. Yeah, that's actually

Tramp:

sounds like a really

Elle:

good idea. Every Wednesday. We absolutely would sit at a table with a bunch of strangers.

Sean:

I don't know. You just, yeah, you could just call up or reserve it online and you would be able to do it. And that's really what helped us out. So going in on a Wednesday night. Meeting new people as well as gold member couples who were just there to relax and tell you about the place and talk about their experiences. And, it was wonderful. It was eyeopening. And then from there we went back to the ranch on a Friday and then we went back that Saturday. And then we went back the next week and the week after until the bartender Until the bartender finally looked at us and said you guys should have a gold membership

Elle:

You are here a lot

Sean:

which we ended up doing But what we also found out for my wife patty at the time was that she Really could lean into The organic attraction and organic fun times.

Tramp:

Those are magical and they don't often happen, admittedly.

Elle:

Oh, yeah. I mean, Jay and I go a lot. I mean, we'll be honest. We live five minutes from there and it's a quick and easy place for us to go on a Wednesday night for our dinner to start the weekend off and maybe a Friday and a Saturday and sometimes Sunday and, you know. We're at the point now we don't go and play that often, but when we do, it is spontaneous and it is that oh my gosh, we met this couple and they're great. And then that anxiety. That I do a lot of times feel is not there because I'm in the moment, you know,

Tramp:

without getting sidetracked too much I think that organic interaction is mostly driven by the women.

Elle:

Oh for sure Yes.

Tramp:

And sometimes us guys are just kind

Elle:

of flying along by the seat of our pants. We're just along for the ride. Exactly.

Tramp:

But no, it's fun.

Elle:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tramp:

Especially since Jay and myself, we're both compulsive personality types. So we enjoy seeing other people getting pleasured or at least someone that we're intimate with or attached to.

Elle:

Yeah.

Tramp:

Yeah. So that's just a bonus.

Elle:

For us to just say no. Oh, so, so sorry,

Sean:

Sean. So now we're going to the ranch a lot and now we're evolving our relationship as how we look at it as being in the LS and we went from, well, we can only play with each other, same room. With other couples and it really just got to the point of, we had hall passes, we can play with whoever we wanted as long as we knew where each other was and that we were being safe and that we were following certain safety protocols that we had aligned and even to the point when there was a brief moment where all the kids were out of the house and I went ahead and made two of our spare rooms into playrooms with, beds and swing, well, at least hard points for swings and different things like that. And so we, we did be through that evolution and being at the ranch, we ended up really being part of a social sphere or tribe, if you will. We would also start going back to the ranch on weekly on Wednesdays or Thursdays and having dinners with a lot of the friends that we had, it was just weekly dinners and whoever can make it couldn't make it. And there'd be anywhere from 12 or 16 of us or just eight of us at a time.

Tramp:

That's something I found pretty amazing about the lifestyle is you really do find your tribe. Yep.

Elle:

Well, it's a group of people that you can talk to about anything. There is really no subject off the table and that comfort level of being around people who just get you. You don't have a pretense. There's no pretenses, you know,

Sean:

exactly. You're just

Elle:

you.

Sean:

Yeah. And that's when we really found that we really settled into the lifestyle and, and just the different people that. make it so much fun with us. And it's not even necessarily that we're playing with them. It's just those friendships and bonds that you just make from those different things. When my wife passed away in March of 2021, It was that tribe that really supported me and helped me through a lot of different things. Including who's one of my partners now is Jay and not your Jay.

Elle:

No, not my Jay. But,

Sean:

How that came about was that she and my wife, Patty I had met Jay, gosh several months before my wife passed and they started to become friends. And so they would go to the ranch together if I had a date with somebody else. And Jay Kind of came in to our tribe and our group as well. It was all these people that were there to support me after my wife passed that really helped me out even more so than my vanilla friends or family or anything like that. That brought me up to the point now where I started to continue to go through the lifestyle because of the communication my wife and I had with being in the lifestyle, cause it's just, for us it was Constantly need to communicate, always talking. And it wasn't even a have to, it was a want to, it was just, it was just something that would just happen. So you would sit down and get ready to binge watch a TV series or something at, you know, seven o'clock at night. And you look over at the clock and it's 11 o'clock and you hadn't even watched a single episode, even though it's been running and you've just been talking the entire time, invested with each other and, and each other's lives and what's going on. And so, all that's gone for, for me at that point, right? Right,

Elle:

and you're missing that.

Sean:

And, in that communication we talked about everything including death. We talked about death a lot. And what we wanted each other to do and be and how we wanted each other to feel. We're not, tell each other how to feel. But that, We didn't need to hold ourselves back for anything and that we wanted to make sure that we were both happy and able to progress as well as we could, if that ever happened. And so I did take that advice and eventually moved forward. And then found myself going from a well accepted couple in the lifestyle to the now dreaded single male in the lifestyle, which was a stark contrast from where things had been as far as how accepting just people that you don't know when they first hear between. You're a couple or have a partner or anything like that. They're very more open armed and accepting and willing to talk to you and left less stand off office. Whereas when you go in and you're, I'm a single male and it's, and there is some good reasons behind that. I understand just because of, there's a lot of single males out there that treat the lifestyle as tender or a place to just get notches on the bedpost or, or things like that. But it was a stark contrast and it was, a big shock. It is

Elle:

a, you're thinking I'm the, still the same person. Yeah,

Tramp:

And it is a, jarring transition. Let's just say,

Sean:

absolutely.

Tramp:

Sean, you're absolutely right. When you're in a couple, people welcome you with open arms. And then all of a sudden, Oh, you're the single guy. Just all of a sudden. And it's like these barriers get put up. Even people that are your friends, there's still sometimes that weird energy. There's a, yeah, there's

Sean:

a little energy. Like you're at arm's length.

Tramp:

Yes.

Elle:

You're both looking at me. I'm really sorry that you feel that way and I hope I've never treated you that way. No, never. Not at all. Not at all. I'd like to think I have not. Well, considering you're two of my favorite single males, I, Do not feel that way about you. There's no arms length. I will always hug you. I will always welcome you with open arms.

Tramp:

Thank you, Al. Thank you. Appreciate that.

Elle:

But you have found your way through this. You have found your happy place, your way you need to be, the lifestyle you have because it's not just Jay.

Sean:

Yeah yes. And I have there's, I have another partner C as well. When kind of navigating this, it was never a plan or an idea to have multiple partners. In fact, I, I didn't even really like using the term partner originally. But it didn't seem right to. just call these wonderful women just my friends. Because they were more. Yes. And it didn't seem right to say that they were girlfriends because I think it just puts a different context on things for people. You can kind of say it is a little polyamorous, I suppose, in a way but it's just, they each. are different people and provide different things for me in my life. One's a great caregiver and caretaker and another helps me Not be a hermit and stay in the house and be by myself. So

Tramp:

Building on that. I think the lifestyle by and large, it's about variety. It's about the excitement and that you found yourself in that very unique situation. That's incredible. And I'm happy for you. Thank you. Thank you.

Elle:

Well, and like you've just said, the lifestyle allowed you to have these two amazing women in your life and still open to more variety. But these two women who give you very different support and love doesn't have to be one or the other. And the three of you find this balance. I, as an outsider view it as, that's balance is done very well.

Sean:

It's not always, Rainbows and gumdrops can't be, but, but there's some navigating things. There's definitely, I mean, we're all human. There's still, yes, there's lots of communication needs to be done. Lots of care and understanding for everyone's feelings. Somebody may have. something that they'd like to do with me on this particular Saturday. And I've already committed that Saturday to doing something with somebody else. And so there's just a lot of balance and helping everyone understand that not everything's going to be perfect on the top all the time, but we're, as long as we're still, cool. Enjoying the time that we spend together. That's what's most important.

Tramp:

Yeah. It sounds like it's definitely not without its potential pitfalls. Of

Elle:

course not. It's life, right? Life is full of pitfalls, but I think it's what you do with it and it's how you react. And one of my favorite sayings is I can't control how somebody is directed at me, how they speak to me, how they behave towards me, any of that. The only thing I get to be able to have control with is how I react to it.

Sean:

Exactly. And

Elle:

if you're keeping that communication going, as we tend to do in the lifestyle, I think more than a vanilla lifestyle you have a better chance of that. There's fewer hurt feelings. It doesn't mean there's not hurt feelings. There's fewer and you work through it and you get past it. Yes. I think a lot faster in most cases, at least you have a better shot at it. That's my two cents.

Sean:

Well, and yes. And I think it's, it's about being authentic and really acknowledging, even though somebody is feeling a certain way, again, that you may not, necessarily agree with, but at least acknowledging that they have those feelings, that they are there, and just understanding how they feel and why they feel that way. And then kind of going from there, at least. It's just more of a validation of who somebody is and what they're feeling at that time. And again, they do a great job understanding and there are times I let them know that these days I am by myself. I am on my own. I need a break because I am a introverted individual. My recharge is when I am by myself on my couch with my dogs. I will go out and go dancing and do different things. And then usually a day or two later, I have to have a just me time break. Or I just need a break from both of them and I want to go out and maybe just go to the ranch and on my own and be social.

Elle:

Right. But again, you communicate. Yes. Communication truly is your superpower. It's not a surprise for someone sitting there waiting for a phone call that's not happening. Right. I mean, I find it so fascinating what a different level of relationship the lifestyle is from basic vanilla dating and meeting someone I've been on the single end of things a couple of more times than I'd like to. And being out there and just Not knowing what someone else is feeling or thinking, it didn't matter. It was fine. I'm a big girl, but I want to know where you're at so that I can adjust my thought process if I need to, and I think we get more of that from at least the friendships and the relationships and the interconnection of the lifestyle.

Tramp:

That and vanilla people, I just find her kind of boring to be perfectly blunt.

Elle:

I know they can be, they're funny, but And you

Tramp:

catch yourself I should not say that. Cause amongst lifestyle folks, you can just let it fly, whatever's on your mind. But if you're at a company function, you have to catch yourself. Yes. Constantly.

Elle:

Or it's the going to give somebody a hug. And Oh, do I? Do I kiss them? Do I give a kiss on the cheek? Do I kiss their lips? No, probably shouldn't. No, don't do it.

Sean:

When you're going in to hug, you're like, no, I can't, I've got

Elle:

to turn weird, awkward. Yes.

Tramp:

No, Sean. But thank you. That was an incredible story.

Elle:

And

Tramp:

I think we both would love to have you back on and probably explore some more facets of that if you're willing.

Sean:

Absolutely. But

Tramp:

guys, I'm going to pause real quick and tell you about one of our very fantastic sponsors, which is shivers. Now shivers is an edible CBD derived sensation enhancer. And there are two specialized formulations, one for men and one for women. And let me tell you, these things are pretty amazing. They usually kick in after 30, 60 minutes. And personally, I get a fantastic energy boost, but even better. Every touch is magnified. It truly does send those wonderful shivers right down your spine. But it doesn't end there. Not only is my pleasure increased, but the next day I wake up feeling great. Not groggy, not hungover at all. In many instances, this is going to replace alcohol for me at lifestyle events. I just feel good, I'm relaxed, and everything is better. Especially when I get a chance to play. I would love for you guys to try them out. And I've arranged a special discount code at shivers. store on any of their products. Just use the discount code US for unapologetic swingers at checkout for 10 percent off your entire order. A link can also be found on our website. And please be sure to let us know what you think. It's pretty obvious. We think they are incredible. That was simply an incredible unapologetic story. I should have prefaced that at the beginning, I always forget to but now we're going to move into the unapologetic honesty and Sean, here's a question I have for you, if you don't mind, is as you moved into the single male realm, What was the hardest thing for you to navigate?

Sean:

I think when I first started as a single male, it was just the not being met with open arms. Like I used to, I suppose that the people being standoffish or whether it's online. Or when you're just meeting people in the lifestyle and they ask if you're partnered with anyone or anything there or if you just come out and just say, I'm a single male, it just seems like the air gets sucked out of a room sometimes that at that point You have the plague or something, or at least that they want to take some time to observe you a little more to make sure that you're on the up and up and Yeah. So from being in a couple to being a single male, you can definitely feel that there's a stigma that is very difficult to shake and very true. And it's, and I'm happy that I'm at the ranch and everybody there pretty much, at least all the front of the house staff and all my friends know. So That stigma is no longer there and I'm very comfortable moving through that environment and not having any problems at all. And it helps me for other situations, whether it's at a party or a club or anything like that, to have that confidence and just being assured that I, belong.

Tramp:

Right. If, you were to travel, say to another city and visited the club, I'm sure your personal experience would be. Very different,

Sean:

yeah, I'd probably be a little more confident than I would have before. Just as far as just being assured of, I know who I am. I know how to move through this environment and to make friends and to not be creepy and not be creepy and navigate the uncomfortable social situations that we all have

Elle:

to. And the thing is, the difference I think between a successful single male and an unsuccessful single male creepy is, is the engagement with other people, the ability to go up to somebody and talk to them, the willingness to wear a costume if there's a theme. The willing to engage both the couple in a conversation and make them feel comfortable. It's the guys that stand around wherever we've been at that aren't talking to anybody and I know it's hard and it's intimidating, but you make that effort that's generally acknowledged like, Hey, look, you wore a costume to a theme night. Hey, look, you came up and talked to us. I think that's more rewarded than other things, but it's also the consistency, and you're talking to people and engaging them. And the same thing with you, Tramp, is the talking to people and making them also feel comfortable with you around and that goes a long way to making somebody welcome you into their fold.

Sean:

Absolutely. And I would say just eye contact and a smile. And good intentions go a long way.

Tramp:

Yeah, you can feel someone's energy. So true. At least I'm a believer of it.

Elle (2):

It's so

Sean:

true. And usually, when I go into like the ranch or a party or anything like that, my only goal is to make sure that I'm having a good time.

Elle (2):

Right.

Sean:

And, that doesn't mean play. That just means just in the environment that I'm having a good time. And then anything that happens outside of that is positive. It's just icing on the cake. And you'll find the less you go into those situations saying I need to play with someone. I have to have sex. I need to, whatever this, and have that in the front of your mind. It starts. putting you in a place of desperation and a mindset in a place where people, like you said can feel that energy that they can and they don't like it and they want to get away from it. And that's when you're the creepy single guy in the corner.

Elle:

Yeah. Sexpectations. Don't have them. Go in and have a good time. Meet some new people who knows what'll happen down the line. Yeah.

Tramp:

Well put. Well, guys, this was an awesome conversation. I look forward to another one. We have no ask us anything this week, so I'm begging you.

Elle:

Stop people right in. Just throw us a question. Yes,

Tramp:

we do. It's, fun being able to answer a question on the fly. But in the interim we can be reached at unapologetic swingers at gmail. com. Our website is also unapologetic swingers. com and wherever you happen to be listening to us, just leave us a review. Let us know what you like about us. And that's the biggest ask that we could have for you. The next episode is kind of to be determined, just like we have been, we're going to try to work in some more sexy stories. Cause I think that's what the people want.

Elle:

So be warned. Sean. I might have a few. All right. If you're willing to share until next time, I'm Al and I'm the tramp. Be sexy. Be confident. Be unapologetic.