Unapologetic Swingers

Unapologetic Swingers: Episode 25 - Solo But Not Sorry

• Unapologetic Swingers • Season 1 • Episode 25

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An unfiltered view into the world of a successful single male in the lifestyle. Sy Swingleton is someone who we're proud to count as a friend.

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Elle:

Welcome back to Unapologetic Swingers. I'm L

Tramp:

and I'm the Tramp. Just a quick little bit about us. We are just going through the lifestyle, l and j and myself, a single guy for now. Mm-hmm.

Elle:

Exploring, really

Tramp:

exploring the highs and lows and everything in between. And I will let Elle introduce our esteemed guest today.

Elle:

Well, today we are very excited to have our single friend from the ranch, come and join us and talk to us about his adventures and how he got in the lifestyle and his, Cassidy. Profile and SDC is s Swinton. So ladies, you wanna check him out? I would go on there and take a peek because this is one handsome, handsome dude.

Sy:

Well, thank you. Couples can check me out too.

Elle:

Okay. Me We do.

Tramp:

Well, Cy, thank you so much for taking time outta your day today, to join us and we're gonna have. Just some really good discussion this episode, and I'm excited about it. Sounds good. And thanks for the

Sy:

invitation. I look forward to it.

Elle:

And part of what, tramp and I look for when we're looking for topics and we're looking for people to talk to, and we want somebody with an interesting story, which is, I think most people, we want somebody who's had some ups and downs in the lifestyle and has experiences because that's what I feel. People wanna hear, they wanna know that, other people have gone through similar situations or how somebody might handle something or how to best navigate a situation. So we're really excited to have you on here and we appreciate that we were able to finally get this together. Sounds

Sy:

good. And I do have stories and I did enter the lifestyle. As a married person and then wound up being a single male. So we can get into that when it's time to get into it. I,

Elle:

I think that's, as good a segue as anything. Tell us how you got into the lifestyle.

Sy:

So at the age of what, roughly? 42. My, my ex-wife and I went on a little adventure for my birthday. At the end of that adventure, I wound up at Mon. I had no. Idea what it was at

Tramp:

at that time. So just for listeners, Mon is a, how would you describe it? It is

Elle:

a sex hotel. Basically. A sex hotel.

Tramp:

Yes. And people have differing opinions of it. Some love it, some not so much.

Sy:

Yeah. Yeah, it was super interesting and I guess. To add some context to it. My ex-wife is Mormon, not stereotyping, but as I kind of thought about it after the fact, it was just pretty interesting. So we end up at Manlet.

Elle:

Can I ask a quick question? Sure. How did the conversation go? To get there, like you were going out for the evening, did you end up there or did you start a conversation and then look for a place to go? Gimme some more details.

Sy:

So the details, I really had no idea. So my day started off, it was a birthday day, so it started off where I'm gonna take you to the store. I'm a toy collector, I'm a geek. So I went to a place in Denver, which name is gonna escape me. It just had a old, a lot of retro toys. Okay. And games. So we started there and she knew my favorite food. We went to get a meal, and as we're leaving the mill, she says, you're gonna need swim trunks and a towel for the next place we're going to go. And I'm like, are you gonna tell me no? And yeah. And that's exactly what she said. She says, no, just bring swim trunks. Wear swim trunks. I'll bring the towels. And she has a bag and we pull up to. What looks like a old motel with a gate. The gate opens up, we go to check in, and I read this little sign on the door that says you were an X wristband for something and X wristband for another. And ignorantly, I put a wristband on and I think it later I found out it was like if you wanted to be approached or not be approached, I can't recall. And then I sat around a pool and hot tub with a bunch of naked people. Some of which were having sex, so,

Elle:

so at no point before this, did you two have a conversation about possibly opening the marriage up or seeing other people or bringing people? You're shaking your head no. Yeah, not,

Sy:

not a one. Oh wow. At that time we probably were married two years. Obviously I think for us, a lot of stuff happened organically. Like we would go out together on a date, be at a club or like on New Year's Eve and. I'm kissing her, another girl might jump in and we all kiss together. Okay. But it was never like a conversation like, Hey, do you want to consider bringing somebody in? Right. Yeah. Right. None of that. So I got dropped in like a bomb.

Elle:

And had she been in the lifestyle before, had this been something or did she have friends that were in the lifestyle? Did you find out later?

Sy:

I honestly have zero clue. Like we did not have a conversation about it. I just made an assumption that. Being that she was a Mormon. Again, stereotypically, I probably should not have done that. Like this was something she was interested in. I'm not gonna lie as a man, I'm not gonna say no. I might think about it, but Right. Yeah. I wasn't like. No. But yeah,

Elle:

I'm, I'm here, I'm in this situation. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Tramp:

Navigate it. Maneuver it. But that literally makes my head spin on end. It's, it would be almost akin to saying, oh, we're gonna go to Mexico or Jamaica on vacation. We're going to desire, or heto, and you just walking in and saying where. What world did I just find myself in?

Elle:

Although I've heard, a couple of stories where they didn't quite understand what they were getting into, into and show up. But usually there is a con some sort of conversation. Yeah, we're

Sy:

divorced now, so if you say it comes badly, so

Elle:

I'm, what I'm getting here is there wasn't a conversation, which tends to be a recurring theme on our podcast and there wasn't conversation before and after, and maybe that probably should have been happening.

Sy:

Yeah, and I mean for me, I'm a reader, so I got books about polyamory, ethical non-monogamy and things like that. Mm-hmm. Go, we exchanged those books and just had a conversation about it, but as you may or may not know, like navigating the lifestyles a couple was a lot different than as a single, so Sure. I think true. We found that out super fast, that it was, it was really hard. I'm a firm believer no one takes one for the team and collectively we, we are that team,

Tramp:

that is difficult without the proper conversation and especially with no prep work. But it sounds like you made it through that initial rough entry, and maybe you did communicate a little bit, but as I'm sure you're. Have experienced since? Probably not to the extent that you should have. Yeah.

Elle:

Well wait, I wanna go back to the actual night and did you have an experience that night?

Sy:

No, I did have an experience, actually my ex-wife brought the woman to me. It was a couple we saw. It was interested in me, us but I could tell by my. Ex-wife's facial expression. She was not comfortable with the person, the other person. Oh, okay. Which is weird. I don't know if she thought just the female was gonna come to me'cause we're making out. Right. I, I'm assuming it was the female's husband, like very little communication. And I, I'm not, I don't want to, this is not a manlet thing, but I would just tell people normally in a lifestyle, this is not how it works. Right. You're, you're not just having couples come up to you instantly start making out or doing things. Especially as a single male, I would tell you. It should never be that way. Yeah. You want to have that conversation, you want to have that consent. So I just wanna make sure I'm clear. Like the situation I'm describing to you is my early time. This is not a normal thing that happens,

Elle:

right? So then from there, how long were you and she married? How did you have men? Any other experiences or is it something, and then the marriage kind of went its way and then you were like, well, I kind of like this whole thing.

Sy:

Yeah, we were married for five years and got a divorce. We didn't really have many experiences. After that. I mean, we dabbled a little bit, but that's what I mean. It's again, it's hard when you're in a couple, I don't wanna say it's difficult next to impossible. It really is because you're trying to find four people that are attracted to each other and can get along, and that's really not easy.

Tramp:

Yeah, not as easy as you think. A true four way connection is pretty elusive, so I don't wanna say someone is always taking one for the team, but there's.

Elle (2):

Yeah, sometimes

Tramp:

I put it in my own head when I'm in a coupled situation where, okay, it's not optimal for me. It's not perfect for me, but I can have fun for, right.

Elle:

Can still enjoy myself 45,

Tramp:

60 minutes and have a good experience. Right.

Elle:

And then, and it comes back to the com conversion element too, where it adds to your enjoyment of the evening watching your partner. Enjoying themselves. Right. And that, could add to it too. Sometimes it's the whole package of what's going on. But yeah, no one here is an advocate of taking one for the team. Right. Yeah.

Sy:

And there's difficulty also too, in that conversion, right? Where I'll just use a hypothetical someone may be attracted to me and not my now ex-wife or vice versa. And some people don't view that as compersion, right? Like they're getting upset, like. What about me? Does this person not like? But yeah, it is what it is from here. It is. Yeah. No, agreed. Agreed.

Elle:

So then, you guys may or may not or whatever, and the marriage is over, which does happen, and you find yourself a newly single man. And did you have thoughts during the process of going through the divorce, like, huh, well maybe that's something I will. Try to gain more information about.

Sy:

Yeah, I did a little bit of reading, but I also got on the dating apps, the Bumbles, the Hinge. I didn't do Tinder. What a shit show were those. I'm sure still to this day, I haven't even touched those

Elle:

pole. I, I was on, well, actually how I found out about the Life Stole was dating a guy from Bumble. So we will thank Bumble for that. Yeah.

Sy:

And I mean, they're good for what they're good for, but for me, what would happen is I would read through women's profiles and they would say, well, we're looking for X, Y, and Z. And I want a gentleman, I want someone for a long-term relationship. Only one person I saw, I hate to be mean, she was not attractive. Said you need to have a seven inch long be clean shaven. It was such a well-written. Profile. I screenshot it. I was like, this is amazing. But what? And she

Elle:

knew what she wanted and she spelled it out

Sy:

and she put it out there. Okay. But I think what would happen is I like my first couple dates, I was dropping a lot of money. I was truly being a gentleman. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then as the dates went on, we'd eat dinner, we leave out, I was walk a woman to her car to where we have to go and, and do you wanna come back to my house? And you know, do the do. And I'm looking, I'm like, well. That's not what your profile says. Right. I'm keep going through it and I'm like, we're adults on a, in a dating app. Like can't we just be honest in what it is that we're looking for? Mm-hmm. One would hope at least. Yeah. Yeah. So I decided to. Dabble back into the lifestyle because at least within the lifestyle, at least going to the ranch and other places, I have a general idea of what people are looking for. It doesn't mean we don't have a conversation right about it, and it doesn't mean you may find your person, per se, in the lifestyle. So, but at least for me, it was just one additional hurdle. Like I didn't have to guess whether or not a person just wanted me for that time being. For sex. Right? Or for a free meal or, or for whatever. What, I hate to say, some people call it dinner and Dick. Yeah, no, I, I,

Elle:

coming from the girl's side, we talked about when, Jay and I went on our first date and on his profile, he said, ladies, on the first date, I, we go Dutch and I, I probably would've. The few people, although I've met other women, they're like, yeah, I kind of appreciate that.'cause going into it, it's that weird, awkward, well, it's like, should I assume? But is that rude to assume? So knowing, going into it that, pull your wallet out, it's just part of it. Yeah. Just made it easier for me. But like he said, there was a lot of women who just lit him up for it. Yeah. And, and that's unfortunate.

Sy (2):

Yeah.

Elle:

Yeah. You single guys. Have a hard time

Tramp:

now. Si I would consider you to be a successful single male.

Elle:

Do you feel you're successful? Do you

Tramp:

feel you're successful?

Sy:

I do feel like I'm successful, but I, I think my reason for my successes, I don't enter any situation with a. Preconceived notion. I don't enter it with a, I hate to use the term body count. I don't go to any lifestyle event or situation thinking I'm going to either get X amount of women or I failed. So I'm, I'm super laid back. I'm ceio sexual, so I like to have an intelligent conversation with folks. Mm-hmm. If it's a couple, I want to get to know both the man and the woman. Although I'm, I'm straight. Like, I just think it's important to get to know. A lot about the people because I don't want anybody to feel as if they're disposable because our circle, it may seem big to others. It's really small, and I wanna make sure the people I interact with when they see me, again, whether the sex from either of us is good or bad, that we can still have a good conversation and be respectful towards one another. Just again, I just don't want someone to fill their disposable.

Tramp:

So two quick points. L has mentioned before and this would be applicable to your situation, but whenever you go into a event, it could just be an evening at Scarlet Ranch or it could be a big lifestyle event that you may travel to say a takeover, but not to have sex expectations.

Sy:

Yeah.

Elle:

Is that how you go into it? Yeah. I have zero

Sy:

expectations and normally if it's a, like I've been to a multi-day event in Arizona. The first day there, I'm gonna fly on the wall. I'm paying attention to everybody. I mean, just observing. Yeah.'cause I want to be situationally aware. I want to like, look around. I want to see how people move and function. It doesn't mean that I'm disinterested in anybody there. It's just the way I am. Some say it's, I'm a slow play. I guess I will agree with that. There's times where I'll meet you and I'm ready to get down to the get down, but again, I just don't want people to feel as if they're being e objectified and they're disposable.'cause I hate to say it, like sometimes that happens to me. So I, I know how it feels,

Elle:

right? And you never want somebody to feel that way. So, yeah, you're definitely a slow role. Yeah. I will, I'll give you this hat. Four years. Four years, man. It took us four years. But, but also you are respectful and I think that coming from a spouse of a woman that you might be interested in. That is kind of nice for them too, is you're not coming in for a hit it and quit it and move on. You're not doing a body count and you're not just trying to get off one night. You have to have a connection. You've got to be able to feel like there's, something and there's respect and then, yeah. I'm very sapiosexual too. You gotta have it up in the head. You've got to make me laugh, you know. Challenge me, make me, have a conversation with you. And it's not just, Hey, let's just, you're hot, let's go downstairs.

Sy:

Yeah. And don't be fake with it either. Like, it's God, no. For me, it's not fake, like it's genuine. Like I really want to get to know the people. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah.

Tramp:

I'm, I'm much the same way. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. And the second point I wanted to make was when you have, even if it's a tight social circle. But everyone thinks highly of you. You are going to get introductions, you're gonna get opportunities, right? Instead of just being that guy who's there to get down and not follow through. So you, send the, lady away smiling and you're, you're able to fist bump the husband and have a good conversation. And not only will you be welcome back, but yeah, they're gonna introduce you. Hey. I know this friend.

Sy:

Yeah. The lifestyle's no different than, I hate even calling it the lifestyle sometimes. It's no different than your personal life if you know how to network. It's literally networking. Oh, for sure. Right. It's a friend of a friend and you may not gotten along with a couple, but they don't think badly of you. They may say, oh, you might be better suited for X, or We want to introduce you to a friend. And that's literally how I've met. Everyone. I've just met some folks this past that are like six people. That way, like I'm gonna introduce you to a friend of a friend of a friend. And then it just goes from there. And so now we're in communication. So that's how it works.

Tramp:

And I would I venture to say that that is how the successful single male navigates this lifestyle.

Elle:

You know what? That brings up a good point. So there's a number of single guys at the ranch mm-hmm. That will talk to people that we know, and interact. And there's a number of single guys. Who literally just don't. If you were to give some advice to the guys that just show up, go downstairs, I mean, you don't even know that they're there and then all of a sudden they're standing right there. What would be your advice to give to them?

Sy:

I would first say if you're, it's your first time to ranch, it may be somewhat overwhelming. Sure. In your mind, you may have this notion that, oh, I'm gonna go on here and it's gonna be. A party. Well, it is a party, but it's not a party for everyone. Very true. So you, so you have to kind of observe, and I would just say if you find someone you're interested in, and I'll just use a couple scenario. Remember that female or that wife has a husband. So you can't just solely focus on her. You need to have a conversation with both. So I'll just use like a real world example. Like if, if I see a, a woman that I'm interested in and she's married, I'm just gonna approach her with something simple like, Hey, that's a nice dress. Mm-hmm. Nice hat, nice outfit. Because a lot of people dress up for the occasion. Turn and introduce myself to the husband. Mm-hmm. And then the conversation just goes from there. I don't ask them what their dynamic is. I actually at this point, don't care. No, this is your first time here. How are you enjoying it? The food is great. Mm-hmm. It's, it's small talk and it's not fake small talk. It's just getting to know them. It's a genuine

Elle:

interest in somebody else. Right.

Sy:

And there may be a time I may have that conversation and leave. Yeah. Because for me, sometimes it's that era of mystery. I can tell sometimes people's body language, whether or not, I hate to say it, the person or people are interested in me. Right. So I pay attention to body language and I might just walk away'cause I know I'm gonna see'em again.'cause there's so many people there most of the time Sure. That are passing, gonna cross again. Mm-hmm.

Elle:

What about you tramp? Having. Balanced around as a single guy. Sure. Over the last oh, almost a year. Mm-hmm. If you could give advice to somebody to make things easier for everybody, what would you say?

Tramp:

I would say, and unfortunately this is why the single male gets such a bad rap, is learn how to talk, learn how to conversate. And quite frankly, if you think your actions may be creepy, they're creepy. Yeah. If every Friday, Saturday night, even some Sunday fun days, you can tell certain single men right away. Either they'll sit at the bar and then they'll do the circle, and then they'll go back and sit at the bar. Or they will just stand there almost like they're surveying.

Elle:

Right. Do they think they're invisible?

Sy:

They navigate like sharks with blood in the water, unfortunately, that's kind of what they do. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Tramp:

As a single male, I would never imagine just going downstairs to hang out. That's just, and for those not in the know, the downstairs is the play area, so yeah, you can see stuff. But I have never seen in my time a single, single male. Just get, Hey, come on in. The water's warm.

Elle:

I've seen it twice.

Sy:

I was gonna say pause'cause I've been offered and said Yeah, like it, I've, I've seen it. I've had, when I dated someone on the lifestyle, we were down there. We were going into a room and someone said, Hey, do you need a third? And I'm thinking to, so did I ask? Like, I mean, but Yeah. But yeah, I get what you're saying. It's, it's rare that it, it happens.

Elle:

Yeah. And it does. Which, then gives fodder to that guy thinking, oh, well this could, you know, this could happen again. Mm-hmm. Or, I saw that happen to so and so, or whatever. I don't even think they talk to each other. I, I feel like they walk around like they are invisible and no one can see them and they're just do observing their own little peep show. Yeah. But when they stand like three feet from you or Right practically in your face, it's, yeah. By the way, we see you. Yes. Yeah. I

Sy:

had a single male one time. He was new there. He said his question, I knew he was gonna have a problem that night, so what does a guy need to do to get laid here? Mm-hmm. That's, I said, well, a change that mindset. And I said, let things, allow things to flow organically. Then I just told him the same thing. I told you all, there's a couple, make sure you're speaking to both. The wife and the husband, if it's a single female, don't approach her as if, if she's a piece of meat, have a conversation with these folks. Yeah, yeah.

Tramp:

These

Sy:

are people. People

Tramp:

Everyone may be there roughly for the same reason, right? Or some are wallflowers or some are first timers and they just want the immersive experience. But I would say everyone. Kind of has the same rough mindset and your correct side. You don't treat'em like a piece of meat. You treat'em as a person and mm-hmm. You try to engage them not only, first on the mental level and then if you're getting the signals, then you start to break the touch barrier and start to get physical. But not until those signs are clear.

Sy:

Right. Yeah. Consent is always paramount. I, I, I tell people that it is always like,

Tramp:

now, okay, that brings up something very just kind of popped into my mind. Consent is paramount. I wholeheartedly agree, but I would argue that women can get away with a lot more than men. Yeah. And I 1000% agree with

Elle:

you. Oh yeah. Whether, and it's, and, and, and honestly, as a woman, with a woman coming to you, it's not always welcome. I mean, you need to still have that consent, but we do push those barriers more than we should. Right. On, on men and women, I think there is a, a sense of not entitlement, but No, it's entitlement. I think so. Okay. All right. Entitlement. Yeah. We'll go with that. Yeah. That, okay, well,, who's gonna say no? Yeah. Whether it's, you should still be able to say no.

Tramp:

Sure. But yeah. Whether it's, it's a woman slapping a guy's ass as he walks by. Yeah. And chances are the guy is just gonna brush it off. He may give a smile or whatever, and then go about his business. But yeah, the reverse situation happens, and chances are there'll be a little hell to pay, but

Sy:

Yeah. Yeah. And I get, I hate to say it like I get touched a lot. And I do have personal space, and I think not too long ago, I just had to kind of correct people and like, I'm no different than anybody else. You don't get to come up and touch me and rub me. It doesn't work that way. Yeah. I mean, just So they said, well, what do we need to do to touch? I said a ask that, that's really simple. You can ask me. Yeah. And if, if I'm open to it, I'll allow you to do it, but just don't come up and touch me. I said, because if the role was reversed, I'd be kicked outta here. So let's not do that.

Elle:

No, 100%. Mm-hmm. And, we have to remember that. So I think that's a good, a good thing to say. Yeah. Yeah. But you are fun to touch. Just gonna say that. So okay. So what is it that you are looking for? Are you just looking to explore and have a good time? Are you looking for. Someone to share it with you. Tell us a little bit about how would this look for you?

Sy:

So for context, I just got out of a, probably a little bit over a year long relationship with someone I met in the lifestyle. So, but again, we met exclusive to each other. That wasn't my expectation, but that's okay. Things happen. Now that I'm, I'm single again. I can't really say what it is I'm looking for. Would I like to find someone a lifestyle? I think it would be great, but it is not the end all be all. Like I don't wanna force someone to say, you either like this or you don't. Mm-hmm. But I also in that same vein, don't want a person that I meet in the lifestyle expect me just to get out. I like to travel, I like to go to the various events, but I also understand that if I were like in a relationship with someone. I'm going to need to spend time with that person. So they're not gonna say, Hey, s see when you get back in three days from a hot wife event. Mm-hmm. Or they might, depends what type of communication we have in that relationship. To answer your question, I'm looking for someone who's overly communicative. Mm-hmm. So we can have these conversations. Maybe again, if I'm in a couple, we can do. That situation where we may swap or just kind of explore with other couples, I think it would be good, but I just think whoever that person may be, we just have to learn to communicate. And the other thing is just trust. I've been in the lifestyle now eight years. So I know a lot of people there shouldn't be an expectation if I meet you in a lifestyle and you're relatively new, that I'm gonna cut off all my friends. Mm-hmm. And people I know because that puts me in a bad spot. And when I say cut off not sexually, like they can no longer be my friends because there's no trust. But I say all that to say I'm enjoying being single right now. I won't say I'm not actively looking to be in a relationship. Again, being organic. If it happens, it will. If it doesn't, I'll be okay. Mm-hmm. So,

Tramp:

and the thing is, you may never know it's something could literally fall into your lap and all of a sudden you're just like, holy crap, there it is. All

Elle:

cylinders are firing. Right?

Tramp:

Yeah. That's, that's something fun. I more broadly in life, whether it be professionally or personally, sometimes it's all about the adventure.

Sy:

Yeah.

Tramp:

Yeah.

Elle:

I agree. So, okay. Tell me the worst story that ever happened. Like a precautionary tale. We, you know, we like to hear the horror stories sometimes.

Sy:

Hmm. I'm trying to think if I have a horror story. Oh, I do. We all have to that, I mean, you know, fair, and I won't call it a horror story, it was just very suspect. Okay. Met what I believed at the time to be a single female. And I drove up to the Fort Collins area really close. A single female had me meet her at a furniture store, which struck me as odd as it should. Yeah, it struck me as odd. Yeah. I, from there, I then left my car, got into her car, and went back to her place. So it was a couple things that raise red flags. A my car is a couple minutes away from where we're going. Inaccessible. Yeah. B I'm like. Man, like why did I have to to do this? So I'm super observant. I'm looking at pictures that are left out of family members. So I see there's children. I'm like, okay, if there's children, that means someone help make that child. And generally, and I'm like, okay, I'm looking around. I go use the restroom, I look around, make sure nothing's in the restroom, is sharp or anything like that. And I'm like, okay, do I really wanna do this?'cause pretty much I'm stuck here right now. So it was only odd. For that reason, I assumed she was married. I don't know that with certainty, but I, I, that was only one of my worst stories because I was literally life kind of naked, right? No car. I literally, like in my phone texts, left, right, left this street to get back to my car. Like I was in a very odd spot, and I don't think a lot of couples understand when you're asking a single male. Someone will actually go to a hotel. I hate doing that. I mean, I have a home. If you wanna come over, you can, but like to go to your place, that's a lot of trust put into going to a couple's house, right? Of course. Sure. Right. So it was that thing. So I would say that's my worst, which is not bad in comparison to others. So, yeah.

Elle:

Okay. What about your best? I was gonna say, what about the best? Oh, I was lining it up.

Sy:

I'll have to try to quickly tell you two. I, I met a couple. A great couple. I would spend a lot of time with them, but this is what I mean, what made them good. When we met we just had general conversations about family, what's going on in life and things of that nature. Unfortunately the male half wasn't able to perform due to a medical condition. And so I, I got to spend a lot of time with a wife. I liked it because again, we were more so friends mm-hmm. Than anything. And again, it wasn't like, Hey, s come on over, we need you for, for tonight. It was like, are you busy? We meet up and then sometimes we would meet and not do anything. I would say my second good story and I went to an event hosted by Jeannie Wishes. I believe it, it was a hot wife event. In Tucson, Arizona. I give them a plug, but I don't know if plugs are allowed and I can't remember their new date. No, we're fine with that. But it was a good experience because I'd met them, actually, I met, I'm gonna try to make this story short. I met a couple of the day prior on sa Saturday at the ranch. A female came and got me and in me introduced me to this group sitting in a cabana. And it was so, I got a weird vibe. So I get everybody's name and then. People disappeared like roaches with the lights on.

Tramp:

Oh, that is weird.

Sy:

It was weird. So what I found out is I was being interviewed to be able to go to the event in Tucson. So what they do is they interview the, single males. They ask you, what do you do for a living? Honestly, like they're seeing how well spoken you are. They, they watch how you navigate the ranch, like Right, right. They told me like, we saw you standing there. You were like. Really kind of chill and calm. We didn't, you seem to know people and not do anything. So they were basically scouting you. Oh, they were scouting me. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's interesting. They were scouting me. So I then flew to Tucson and met probably, thus far, probably one of the most beautiful women I've met ever like, and the lifestyle. And again, I'm very nonchalant, laid back, she stops up and talks to me, she says. Are you not vibing that I'm interested in you? This is like day two of the event. I'm like, honestly, no, I'm not paying attention. She says, well, what is your room number? I told her, she says, tonight I'm coming to get you. Leave the door unlocked. So my night ends a little bit early'cause I'm tired. I get a knock on my door. I see this silhouette comes in and she came and got me. And when she got me, she got me and she took me back to her room. And it was, it was great, but super beautiful woman. Like wow, super, super beautiful. So yeah, that was a great story. It's super memorable for me. I probably will visit that event again. It is a good event experience. Yeah, it was a great experience. Yeah. Yeah. So

Elle:

would you say that you appreciate it when a woman is more assertive with you or

Sy:

I I think it depends who. The woman is, I would just tell you, the majority of the women I've been with lately have all been assertive., She grabbed me. I didn't know she was married until later that night. Uhhuh, and we wind up talking. We played that that evening. But I think the majority of the women that I've been with most recent have been super assertive. They've come up, introduced yourself to me. Sat by me. We've just had a conversation. So long answer to a short question. Yes. Mm-hmm. That's

Tramp:

admittedly a problem I have, recognizing that a woman is interested and then by the same token, putting out that vibe. Where I'm interested, but I don't necessarily make the approach.

Elle:

Right so that they know,

Tramp:

so that they know. Coming

Elle:

from a non-fire starter, it is helpful when you guys tell me that you're interested, just so you know. Yeah. But I guess I have a question

Sy:

for you, Trent. So like in that situation though, are you more kind of standoffish because you also know that woman has a spouse and you don't know their dynamic?

Tramp:

No, not necessarily. Okay. I. When I'm at the ranch, for example, or any club, I look for my social circle and the people that I integrate with, and I can have good conversations and I'll compliment just, just as you said, Sy compliment the woman on, that's a really sexy dress, or I love your earrings, or something to that effect. But beyond that, I have a hard time crossing over that Rubicon. To let my actual intent be known. And I know there are some guys who are not only physically attractive, so they already have that in. But just have this charisma and almost very aggressive that some women fall for almost, and they respond to very well.

Elle:

Well, what makes it easier for them as long as they're interested in that person. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, it's funny, we're still, junior high. Dance thing, where we're, you're still trying to figure out if somebody's interested and where you can go with that and what somebody is available for.

Tramp:

Right. You know, and it's such a fine line where I wanna say, I wish I just gave less fucks, but then by the token, I don't want to alienate. Yeah. You know, the, the people that are already in my social circle, but I don't know if I necessarily would, to be perfectly honest.

Sy:

Yeah, I jokingly, but seriously tell people to say, well, what was the best thing you ever said to a woman? And I said, sometimes there's nothing at all. I don't say anything. I'm looking at body language. I look at your eyes, I can hear really well. So when I walk by, if you say something to me I've heard it, I may not acknowledge it until later. Because again, some are. Uncomfortable with approaching you and, and I try to break the ice. There's people sometimes who I know are afraid to approach me, and I've had males tell me I'm intimidating. I

Elle:

Well, I was just gonna say that even as a female, like, oh, this, you know, both of you handsome men, like, oh, will they even be interested in me? I can see how some women might be holding back. Because they just think, well, I don't know if I have a chance.

Sy:

And for me, I would say they don't need to. I'm never gonna shut down a conversation. Yeah, I know ever. Like I just think I'm open to talk to anyone to get to learn about you. Who knows? Like I may be the person who gives you a tour. I may be the person who is I, I'd met someone unfortunately one time who was, was dealing with the death of a spouse. I just sat with that person. I didn't need to. Play and they had not been out in months. Yeah, I'm open to doing that. Like for me, at the end of the day, it's not always about sex. And, and just being a, a good listener.

Elle:

I agree. Most of the time when we go, I have no plans on playing. Yeah. I just wanna be around people and, and having an exciting night and maybe feel good about myself or help somebody feel good about themselves. It's, it's rarely with a plan that I've gotta play that night.

Tramp:

Yeah. Right. I would almost say in closing that the folks in the lifestyle, broadly speaking, are some of the best people you'll ever meet. A hundred agree. Yep. And in the past, that's what kept me going back to Desire and the ranch and all these places where you may never know who you're gonna meet, but guaranteed you're, going to come home smiling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just such a good experience. Yeah. Someone's

Elle:

gonna make you happy that you went.

Tramp:

Agree. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well guys, I'm gonna pause us real quick and tell you about shivers. So shivers is an edible CBD derived sensation enhancer, and there are two specialized formulas, one for men and one for women. Let me tell you that these things are simply amazing for me. They kick in after 30 to 60 minutes, and not only do I get a nice energy boost, but every touch is just magnified. It truly does send those wonderful shivers right down your spine, but it doesn't end there. Not only is my pleasure enhanced when I get a chance to play, but the next day I wake up feeling just great, not all groggy or hungover in a lot of circumstances. This may actually replace alcohol for me at lifestyle events. I feel good. I'm relaxed, and everything's just simply better. I would love for you guys to try them out and I have arranged for a special discount at Shivers store on any of their products. Just use the coupon code us for unapologetic swingers at checkout for 10% off your entire order. A link can also be found on our website, and truly just let us know what you think. It's pretty obvious. We think they're awesome. So Cy, what I want to do next is we do have an a MA this week so this a MA is from the mountain foxes and their question is, in the lifestyle, you're going to see something happen with your partner that may be unexpected, whether it could be a new position for them or a, a reaction from them that you don't get. So you may have some personal feelings on that, or maybe they are all of a sudden super vocal during an orgasm or they're with a gentleman who is quite sizable and you may not be as. Rather this could be positive or negative. But not only how did you react, but how did you recover after the fact?

Elle:

For me unfortunately I can only think of a not so positive situation. And it wasn't that I saw it and was there, I was outta town and. Jay had gone to the ranch and we had talked about that there would be an opportunity to play while I was gone and, and we had talked about it. But we really hadn't talked specifics and of what would be okay and what would not. And so sometimes you don't know until it actually happens. And I had come back from the trip and he's telling me about his adventures and he had played with a, a couple that we knew and there was a single gal that was there. Playing with all of them. And then the couple left and he went back downstairs and played with a single gal. And it kind of hit me hard that wait. Hmm. I'm sorry. You played with a single gal I've never met before and so I, I've, I, if something goes awry, I'm never gonna blow up at the ranch. I'm never gonna, in that situation I will think about it for a while and try to figure out what is it about it that I'm not okay with. Because sometimes you don't know. Mm-hmm. And so we talked about it or I thought about it for a little bit and then we talked about it and it's like, okay. I think that we need to just have some guidelines. If one of us is traveling and the other is at the ranch, if it's situations that we have not previously discussed, that somebody that I don't know, I've never met is. Maybe off limits until a later date. Doesn't mean that it's not something that will happen down the line, but it would be something that you might need to say, Hey, listen. Ellen and I have an agreement that if she's outta town and I'm at the ranch, that an opportunity comes up and it's not somebody that she knows that it's something that we need to put on hold until a later date. And maybe you start a conversation, then maybe the three of us get to dinner and get to know each other and go from there. It's that not knowing that person that just didn't sit right with me. Yeah.

Sy:

And. I'm a single guy, so the only thing I can really think that is close is normally I'll take single females with me to events and I make sure, and this is, could be someone I'm interested in maybe dating or getting to know. And so prior to, we'll just have a conversation like, what are you open to both individually and is it together? If I see somebody, I know they're, they're interested in playing, is that okay? And so it just comes back to that communication piece. And again, I'm protective by, by nature. So I've been in situations where like a female friend of mine will be playing maybe with another female in a group and someone will come and touch them that they don't know or try to insert themself in a group. And I'm just gonna be honest, like I kind of check that person to make sure that they understand that this is not how it functions, but I do it more so for the reason. As single guys, we get a bad rap, so. We're already fighting against the stereotype. You know, the, the bad apples have ruined the bunch. Sure. And so what I want, if anything, is to teach these single males like a lesson to say like, listen, this is not how you act. You don't put your hands among, you get consent. You don't act pushy. I mean, there may be some times where people say they want a bull or something like that, but you still can do all these things and remain respectful. And for me, you have to stay respectful throughout that.

Tramp:

So, no, I think that's incredible insight there. I would say, and this is just my own personal view and specific to me is I am naturally coersive, which means I take great pleasure in my partner's pleasure. It doesn't mean I want to be left out, but I can sit back for a minute and just kind of observe and if she's having a good time, that's a lot of fun. And then I like to get involved. If there's a situation that you have not discussed, and again, as l and I seem to hammer on every single episode is every one is is the communication aspect. If it's a new situation, unless it's completely just beyond the pale, a lot of people would be just to end the interaction. Pull your partner out. I'll let it play out. And then because I'm so partner pleasure driven, I'm still going to enjoy to a certain extent. And then we'll have that conversation after, everything has settled, all the hormones have left the brain and you're kind of back to earth, per se. But yeah, I think in all of our cases. It still just boils down to that core concept of communication. Yeah. And

Sy:

I've been in those, pull your partner out situations where I'm with mm-hmm. The wife and something clicks and the next thing I know everything is shut down and like I'm standing there like, I don't know what's going on. Right. Was that part of that dynamic? Yeah. I feel bad. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. I've been, I've been in those situations and it's weird.

Elle:

I think unless it's a a true disregard for the partner's feelings in a situation, sometimes things happen and it's kind of key to not throw the drama gauntlet down and, and take a moment and take a breath, figure out maybe what it is. Ease that person out and have that conversation of something that's upsetting, then, have that conversation maybe in another area as opposed to in front of everybody. So many people, will do a reaction and it kind of ruins it for everybody and they don't necessarily know what that problem was or why that happened.

Tramp:

We've all met those couples usually, very briefly, the lifestyle where they just, quite frankly, bring a lot of drama. Yeah. And they, us hopefully, they usually show themselves out. Yeah. And those are the

Sy:

people I never interact with, ever get, I'll say hi to'em, but that's pretty much it. The buck stops there. No. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Elle:

We, we had a situation where Jay and I we met a, a young couple that were new to the lifestyle. We had had some dinner with. With the gentleman brought his girlfriend, she was trying to figure out if this was something she wanted to do. And at the end of dinner with the four of us, I guess she really wanted to try and play with me. And I'm trying to think if I've even said this story. I feel like I might've told it. But anyway, we, we said, okay,'cause she wanted to play with a girl. It's like, okay, well then that'll be, you know, so I'll play with Jay, she'll play with him, but she wanted to kiss and maybe do some touching and all that. So we were open to that. And so we had at that. We had played. It was a, a very nice, sweet situation and she got to explore a little bit and we're all getting dressed and getting ready to go upstairs, and all I did was lean over and give him a kiss. It wasn't like I made out with him. I didn't stick my tongue down his throat. It was like, thank you for an enjoyable evening. And I guess she just lost her shit. Yeah. And the next day he was texting Jay saying she doesn't want anything to do with me anymore, blah, blah. And it's like, oh, you guys might wanna have that, more of that conversation. I, I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't do anything outside of a boundary I don't feel, but that. Is an awkward situation to be in.

Sy:

I hate to use the term leash, but sometimes a leash is longer. Yeah. Depending on the person, right? Between the people. I would agree. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Tramp:

Well, interesting. Fantastic. So Cy, thank you so much for

Elle:

Yeah.

Tramp:

Joining us. Thanks for, and if you're so inclined, would you go ahead and share your socials if you, if you feel like getting some additional traffic in your own box?

Sy:

Highly on Cassidy and s SDC I'm s Swinton. It's all one word. It starts with a SY Swinton, just like it sounds. Yep. I have questions. Fantastic.

Tramp:

We'll talk later. And we're, I'm actually kind of curious to see how much. Extra bandwidth you get there, I hope.

Sy:

We'll see. I'm open to communication. As I tell folks, I'm super laid back. I'm open to talk about anything, even if you're a single male. I like women, but I will just tell you, like if I can give you pointers to kind of navigate it, I'm a hundred percent open to to doing it. I use successful in a a different way. I want you to be successful. And successful doesn't always mean sexually successful. It just means to be able to navigate. Yeah. This space. Mm-hmm. And just respect. And so you can meet friends, you meet the best people in your life. And I

Elle:

think that's, so important. The ability to give somebody else some knowledge and some information to help their journey a little bit better, I think is very gracious. And that helps all of us. Yeah.

Tramp:

Yeah. Well, excellent. So guys, thank you just so much for continuing to come on this journey with us. If you guys need to contact us, we can be reached at unapologetic swingers@gmail.com. Our website is also unapologetic swingers.com, and the biggest ask that we have is wherever you happen to be listening to us, just leave us a quick review that does more for us than quite frankly, anything.

Elle:

For sure. Maybe just our egos, but we'll take it. Until next time, I'm l and I'm

Tramp:

the tramp.

Elle:

Be sexy, be

Tramp:

confident,

Elle:

be unapologetic.