Unapologetic Swingers

Unapologetic Swingers: Epsiode 34 - Just the tip with Steve and Laura

• Unapologetic Swingers • Season 1 • Episode 34

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 53:28

Elle, Jay and the Tramp interview Steve and Laura - A couple with an amazing story. One of the few times that we've heard where the lifestyle saved their marriage.

Visit us at UnapologeticSwingers.com

Also visit our partners: Shivers.Store and use the discount US at checkout for 10% off your order and our newest sponsor, The Scarlet Ranch! Colorado's premier Lifestyle club

Elle

Welcome back to Unapologetic Swingers. I'm l

Tramp

and I'm The Tramp. And I'm Jay.

Elle

Yay.

Tramp

And guys, I know I say this every single episode, but truly from the bottom of our hearts, we are so thankful that you continue to come on this journey with us as we explore the lifestyle, the highs and lows and everything in between,

Elle

the good, the bad, and the ugly,

Jay

and the fun and dirty. I'm

Elle

so glad you're here with us today.

Jay

It's a pleasure to be here.

Elle

We're trying something new that we've not done before. We have tramp and myself and Jay and two guests.

Steve

Two very sexy and fun guests. So

Elle

sorry, back to you. No,

Tramp

of course guys. Of course. We are lucky enough to have Steve and Laura with us, whom I just had the pleasure of meeting this weekend, in fact. And they have quite the origin story and I'm really excited just to hear about their lifestyle adventures thus far. So welcome guys.

Laura

Oh, thanks so much. It's great to be here. We're excited.

Tramp

Yeah.

Elle

Laura and Steve reached out on SDC saying they were coming to Denver and Jay started chatting with them and we wound up scheduling up dinner on Thursday night at the ranch. They were gonna be here Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Go home Monday. So

Tramp

it almost sounds like another marathon couple that we happen to know

Laura

Exactly. We're fully committed to the experience. Yes. We appreciate that. Yes.

Steve

You proved that over dinner the first night, go big or go home. So here we are. That's

Elle

How we do it. Yeah. Yeah. So we really had the pleasure of getting to know them on Thursday night at dinner and a little bit better after dinner. And we're just fascinated by their stories. So the next morning I'm like, Jay, we need to have them on the podcast.

Steve

Yeah. Just to, as a lead in on that Thursday night after dinner, we went downstairs to the open play area in the ranch and Laura. Not totally comfortable being out in the open. But there was no one downstairs and we had the whole great room all to ourselves for quite a while.

Laura

Yeah.

Steve

And it was very great. That's

Laura

how it worked. And then the next night I got tricked into going to the big room again and people did show up. So there's a process of getting comfortable and it's helpful when it's quiet to start. And boy, it's tricky. It's fun when it gets a little steamier in there.

Tramp

I think there are two kinds of people. There are people that are naturally exhibitionists, right? Yes. And then there are people who get so locked into the experience that the outside world just fades away.

Laura

That's exactly me. That's exactly me. I find that, yeah. Downstairs

Elle

that it is you just focus on what's right in front of you or behind you. Or on top of you.

Laura

Yeah, e either way you of it worked or if

Jay

there's a couple sexy couples standing very close watching, it's very easy to look up and smile. And

Elle

Sometimes they

Steve

get included,

Elle

but we're getting ahead of ourselves here.

Tramp

I think so.

Elle

We met this great couple and I want to find out how long they've been together, what important factor came into play, and then how they got into the lifestyle.

Tramp

And just to follow up on Elle's point there. Yeah. People say our story isn't necessarily interesting or intriguing, but everyone's story is unique and there are so many people out there, I guarantee it's gonna resonate. And they'll say, that was us, or that is us right now. And we're not alone in this journey.

Elle

Absolutely.

Steve

Yeah. And as we launch into that, I'd say we've been together for three plus decades. And the plus is a fairly significant plus. So we've been together a long time.

Elle

That's cute. Married,

Steve

and we literally could not have been more vanilla than we were.

Laura

Could not have been,

Steve

Could not be farther afield now from where we have always been. And so now why so vanilla? Born and raised and lived a bunch of our lives in Utah. We spent a bunch of time on the East coast as well, but very much from a high demand religion. You can put those pieces together really easily. We have a smart,

Elle

Listening audience.

Steve

I'll let Laura go ahead and tell us how that all started.'cause it really was her journey that. Launched this whole exciting experience for us.

Elle

Now, first of all, can I just say, was the sex a very missionary type sex?

Laura

Entirely? Entirely. And sadly, our sex life was not all it could be. And there's a lot that came from my experience coming from a high demand religion and living in that system my whole life. And there was a lot of ingrained beliefs that were very challenging for me and always were. And I'm a tend to be a strong, confident, assertive woman in my life, but in my sexuality, I was incredibly small. I think there was a system in place that caused me to always believe I was in a one down position. I just didn't have the confidence sexually. I really think I stripped that from myself as a young, girl. And, I will add this because it's an important point of my story, is that when I was very young, I had some moderate sexual abuse by some neighbor boys. And it really imprinted on me in a painful way to be very ashamed of my body and have been touched. And unfortunately in our marriage, I couldn't translate the moment because of course, we were virgins when we got married, would never touched each other's genitals. We've never done anything beyond a lot of heavy making out. And so to try and flip the switch from nothing to now sex is good, sex is bad, but now sex is good. I couldn't make that adjustment in my mind and I knew I should, but I really had just rejected. That sexual part of myself. I think from childhood, although I knew I had a very strong drive, and it was a battle internally.

Steve

I would see, and we would have moments where that sexuality would come through, and so there would be these bright spots of, oh wait there she is. Oh. Oh wait, now she's gone. Wait, now, oh, there she is again. So you knew what was there underneath. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And when it was there, it was amazing. But I had no idea for all those years how difficult and painful that was and the battle that was going on inside.

Tramp

Now, not to derail us too much, but I don't think anyone, religion, if you will. Has a monopoly on, demonizing one's sexuality or they're so enforced on the purity aspect and that, I dunno.

Laura

Yeah. There is not a monopoly. There's a lot of conservative cultures and ways that we grow up and, it impacted me in so many ways. There's really a modesty culture in the system we came from and that meant that really parts of my body, from almost my neck down to my knees, I had this feeling that part of my body was not mine and it was, covered. I was so sensitive. I'm showing some cleavage today. Yes. And that is new. We

Elle

appreciate that. Very

Laura

good. But that is new for me. And that's actually been a real mental emotional. Physical adjustment. And I love being able to show now my body not to show it off, but because it's mine. And that's part of this journey and that's jumping ahead, but that was where I was stuck, is really rejecting me, rejecting my body, rejecting sexuality. And unfortunately that meant I rejected my husband a lot and I'm so sad about that, that how much I had to reject him because I felt like I was protecting myself. And we just didn't have this sexual connection that we could have had until literally the vase broke and everything shattered. And I started this new journey.

Jay

So how did this awakening happen? So

Steve

I'll start, but as this typically goes, she'll definitely finish the story. Oh, and if I may, everybody, we have such wonderful guests. These two are tall fit. So very good looking it. It really isn't saying very kind. Anybody who sees

Jay

them wouldn't say the same.

Laura

You're so sweet.

Steve

So I had a hunting trip to British Columbia, scheduled for almost a year. Took one of my adult boys with me, and we were gonna be gone off grid up in British Columbia for 10 days and Laura decides if you're gonna go hunting, I'm gonna go find me a beach someplace warm. And so she booked her own trip to go to Cancun for a week, and I was pretty much, again, off grid. I knew she was there. Occasionally I'd get a text at night, but I didn't really know what was going on and Oh, my, what was going on.

Elle

You assumed not much. No

Steve

I assumed she was at the Hyatt, she booked and that she was sitting by the pool enjoying some sunshine. That's all that I knew. That sounds like a

Laura

Hyatt.

Steve

That's what I, which is

Laura

exactly what's happened for the first three days and I was bored stiff. So I'm a very social person and I'm there. There's couples all around me. No one wants to talk to me. I'm just bored. And I started looking for excursions because I thought, I've gotta get outta here and do something. And I was looking at the list of top 10 excursions in Cancun, and of course in the top was the quote, world famous boobs, cruise, BOOB as boobs, not just boobs. There was boobs involved and it kept. Calling my name and I instead, I booked another excursion and finally realized this thing is just tapping on me. Something is calling me. This is pulling me.

Elle

Go to the cruise,

Laura

go to the boobs cruise, and I had to get a bikini for the first time that I've had a bikini in 30 something years. And I show up in this thing and I am no doubt the oldest woman walking onto this catamaran. 120 of my new best friends are walking on this well and. I'd never had a drink of alcohol at that point in my life. And they're pouring the rum punch as fast as they can. I was gonna say, as you enter onto that boat, and I had a moment, I just stood there and I told myself, if I'm doing this, I'm going all in. I'm going all in. There handed me the rum punch and I'm like, here we go. And I drank it. I continued drinking the rum punch that day and and I was just, things I could see where this is going. Things got a little tipsy and the balance struggled later on in the day, but boy did I have a great time and pulled the top off. I just took a deep breath and just said, I can do this. I pulled it off, shoved in my bag, and I marched straight out to the front of the boat where the party was just rocking and I am standing by people who are naked and it was crazy.

Tramp

Isn't an amazing for someone who is new, it doesn't even necessarily have to be a, just a clothing optional environment. That first ripping off the bandaid is, freedom is so difficult, but it's so liberating. At the same time,

Laura

it was a feeling of pure freedom. And again, what was so amazing about this experience, this, none of this could have happened had I been with my husband. Because I had an entire week to make every decision based on what was pulling me, what was calling me. And I followed every prompt. So I had the best time out there. And I just made so many friends and a whole group of people, not lifestyle, but lifestyle adjacent said, so where are you staying? Oh, I'm at the Hyatt. Why are you at the Hyatt? And I just like,'cause we're Hyatt member, I don't know. And they said, you should be a temptation. And I said, what's temptation? They proceeded to tell me about temptation. Speeding this story up. I did end up going back to my hotel that night and telling a white lie that my aunt might've died and I needed to get out of my contract there at the Hyatt that I'd prepaid. And they were so kind to let me go home for my aunt's funeral or to temptation and which I Tomato. Tomato. Yes, exactly. Am I asking real temptation? I dunno. Almost the same thing. So I show up for the last two days of this vacation at Temptation and my goodness, what an experience, and I'm sure your listeners all are familiar with, temptation is a very lifestyle friendly, extremely. There's singles, there's couples

Tramp

and it is topless, optional. It

Laura

topless. It's not full nude, but it is topless, optional.

Steve

And if you haven't picked up already, Laura's not shy. And so she starts asking.

Laura

Lots of questions,

Steve

lots and lots of questions to lots and lots of people, and wants to understand

Laura

how does this work?

Steve

How does it work? Tell me what is it? How is it? And one of the funniest things is people started calling her the unicorn and she just chuckle and laugh until she found out what it was. It was.

Laura

And then when finally someone told me what a unicorn was, I said. Oh no. I'm just here on accident and that became my part of life is that I'm just here on accident.

Elle

Yes. I canceled my Hyatt, yes, I've made on accident. I told a white lie

Laura

on accident. I end up on a boob screws intentionally. But yes I'm here on accident, but I got a full education in the lifestyle and people were more than happy to tell me about it.

Jay

In, in the back of your mind, there had to have been a, I can't wait to tell Steve about this.

Laura

I was a little nervous, but I was excited to tell him a lot of this.

Steve

Yeah. And that's a fun little spot we'll get to in a second. But what was interesting is, so one afternoon she'd met this particular couple at the pool. They'd interact a little bit. And the last night, this beautiful French Canadian couple come find her at the bar. And he saddles up next we've been for next to her and says, we've been looking for you. And she's taken back. And then did they have sexy accents?

Laura

Oh, the sexiest accents. I knew it. These French Canadian accents and they looked like. I dunno. He was like an Iron Man athlete and she looked like she was straight from Sweden and they were gorgeous. So

Elle

you just melted?

Laura

I was melting, I melted watching them in the pool all day and I'd noticed, and they talked to me once briefly, but I realized they were swingers so I was terrified of them. But anyway that's who approached me that night. And he just pulled me in and people had told me, I'd asked one gentleman earlier, how does it work? What's the routine? And he told me first the man's gonna put his hand on your back. Then if you're friendly, he's gonna pull you a little closer. His hand might go down your butt. Then he's gonna da. All of sudden, wait,

Elle

Where's the asking

Laura

of permission? No, there was the, okay. Apparently there was not to be any asking. I'm sorry. Is

Steve

there a pamphlet where these steps are written down?

Laura

We need to write one. So suddenly this man is doing the things, his hands around my waist. Oh, now he's pulling me closer. Now his hands on. Now he's pulling me, facing him and the wife standing by she's just silent. And just watching the negotiations is basically, it's what she's watching. And I realize, oh no, he's doing the things. He's doing the things. What am I doing? He's doing the things. And he finally gets to this point and says, we're wondering if you'd like to spend some time in our room with us tonight. And I had a full body experience in this moment that I will cannot describe. It is like someone put an IV into my arm and shot me with pure sexual adrenaline. And I had not felt like that since before we got married. And it was just crazy because something woke up so much in my body with this ask, with this invitation now, I was in a very ethical relationship, monogamous relationship. I was discovering all this on accident and I happen to say to him, excuse me, could, can I just take one moment and I turn to this, one of these new friends and get some coaching? And she's what are you gonna do? Whatcha gonna do? I can't I've gotta go home. Oh my gosh. I've gotta go home and fix my marriage right now. And that was the moment I realized. Because we were at odds at the moment. We were not in the best place at that time. And when he had left that it made it easy for us to be off grid'cause we both just needed some breathing room. And what had been happening, if I can just give this important piece, is that I had been really struggling in this high demand religion to feel like I was an autonomous fully self-owned individual. I was living in a place where I was under anyone else's rules. Anything that was felt arbitrary, they were not rules that worked for my soul, for my integrity. A lot went against my integrity and I needed, I just knew in this moment. It, my life is changing right now. And I went back and I had been moving out of that religion for about a year and really in pain about it, struggling because it is so difficult to leave that kind of system. You risk so much of your belonging, like your acceptance by your family, your friends, your society. Like it is hard to make these changes. And I was terrified. So I knew I was gonna change at that moment. And I went back to this gentleman who pulled me in and gave me a passionate kiss that only added to the adrenaline. But

Tramp

no, that when you get caught up, it is electrifying. It is just

Laura

this next level.

Steve

And so that moment when that happened for her, then that started. This avalanche of change that happened in rapid succession. So sh But

Laura

I do need to make note that I told him no. Yes, I did tell him no. So for a bummer, I got the kiss and you said, okay. Oh, he, I'm gonna go. And I about passed out, but I did drag myself away somehow. And my friend put me in my room and said, don't you dare walk back outta here. And that was a good

Steve

thing. That was a good thing for all of us. I So that was the answer. Yeah. She comes back home from Mexico, I get home from Canada, she says about Mexico. Didn't quite go as I thought. She had some, we talked, had some, she had some accidents. She had some accidents in Mexico. I was happy about the boobs crews. I was intrigued by the other good. Okay. As I sat and listened, I asked the question, would you ever take me to a place like that, like temptation?

Elle

Her

Steve

jaw dropped. And she said, would you actually ever go? And I said, I'd go with you. And so six weeks later we ended up at desire. Pearl for four days and RM for four days on an eight day trip. And it was just us. And that experience in those weeks leading up to going to desire and the weeks that followed completely changed the course and direction of our marriage, of our relationship, of our sexuality. It's been radical healing.

Elle

Radical changing, radical.

Tramp

Now I have to interject a little bit. I am sure Laura, that you were probably sweating bullets. Quite literally. Yes. Just

Laura

ter I was very nervous tell in

Tramp

preparation to have that conversation because what you've known your entire life, it is so far outside of the boundaries even with regular people who don't necessarily have that background pressure. It's still. You don't know which way the conversation is gonna go when you bring up the lifestyle or even going to a clothing optional place. Or it could have blown everything up. It could have blown up spectacularly.'cause our human nature is I need to protect the status quo. So I'm gonna commend You need to save the marriage. Exactly. I'm gonna commend you. Thank you. Because it, that took a massive amount of courage and strength.

Jay

Yeah. And you showed discipline. You could have easily gotten too drunk and woken up, oh my God. What did I just do as you climb out of bed with two semi strangers?

Laura

Fortunately, I still didn't know how to drink well yet, so I was sober that night. Still learning. Still learning. But what happened is, instead blowing up the marriage, it healed the marriage. Because what happened is I call this my journey of personal reclamation. I. No longer was owned by anyone else, by any institution, by any ideas. I've been on a journey of reclamation of self-discovery, and it's not like I've, I don't see myself as having changed. I see myself as finally having come home to me. Yeah. I finally have let myself be me, be fully expressed, and as Steve saw that and started to experience me that way I'll let you speak to that.

Jay

So jumping back to desire, now you're very aware of what's kind of place it is. The kind of people that are there. Did that lead to some

Steve

So desire for us was it was a situation where we were going completely for us, and I was of the opinion and I kept that position for a number of months that. It, this is just about us, put us in sexy spaces. It was doing phenomenal things for our communication, for our relationship, for

Laura

sex life. For our sex life. Yeah. It was

Steve

incredible. And so being in those places, seeing other people, et cetera, but I was a, oh hell no. We'll never swap with another couple. That's never going to happen.

Elle

We still have boundaries.

Steve

Still have boundaries. I did. She didn't.

Laura

It's true. I dissolving accidentally, I've made it very clear that I thought this lifestyle thing sounded fascinating. And what was surprising to me is, again, being at temptation, I'd had this mindset about swingers are I dunno sleazy, pervert, zy pervert. These are not the stellar humans of society. But I met these incredible people, successful really good, kind like character driven people and realized right a minute, I had this wrong and I was very intrigued. But I was not gonna pressure him because I knew that was never gonna work. So we did the rule of play to the lowest common denominator, and I just waited and thought, we'll just see how this goes. And it went, yeah.

Steve

And it went, but we had a phenomenal time at Desire

Laura

Exhibitionism. He just played with each other. Yes. Just each other. Yep.

Tramp

It is just such a sexy environment that truly, it doesn't matter if it's just you guys. If you're monogamous and you just wanna spice things up, or if you're run the whole gambit and you are full blown lifestyle,

Steve

It, it really doesn't. And we felt that, we felt so welcomed it was like we no pressure found our people. And it wasn't that we were even playing with any of those people. So we just had a fantastic experience. Every day we pushed ourselves to do a little bit more and it's just silly little things like, one day we. Let's do something on that cabana bed over there, but let's make sure no one's watching and let's do this, that, and the next

Laura

day, let's make sure someone's watching. Like she was trying to level up every day something that we were being more brave about.

Speaker 6

Yeah.

Laura

And that's how that trip went.

Steve

And then the last part of that trip was she discovered that she liked girls at the very end of that trip. Oh wow. And so for the next several months wait. Slower. There's something let's get back to that. Tell that story. So this is a fun story actually. So there were two couples that we had seen on and off for four or five days. We were around and seeing them said hello just friendly with them. And the second to the last night on at the disco, these two gals were on the dance floor making out and with their

Laura

tops off,

Steve

with their tops off. And I knew that she had mentioned that she may actually be interested. So I just leave her walk over to these two ladies that we had seen all week and said, Laura had no idea what I was doing. I walked over and said, Hey, my wife's never kissed a girl or touched boobs. Would you guys mind? And they said, we would love that. And she's, Laura's dying, has no idea what I said. And next thing I know, these two women show up. And

Laura

you told me, I just told them this. And I said, you did what? And they're standing in front of me, the biggest smiles on their faces. I'm like, all right, let's go. And we made out what's a girl to do? What's a girl do, but touch the boobs and kiss and make out? And I saw stars like I just saw stars. They're fun though. So that we were so fun.

Steve

By the way, guys just out there. That was probably the biggest move that got me the most points ever. It's with my sweet wife.

Laura

I came back to him when I finished with them, it only was like two minutes or something. I turned around and the look in my eyes towards him must have been like the biggest eyes. And I came running to him and threw my arms around him and I said, I have never loved you so much in my entire life. And it's like he gave me this gift, he gave me the permission, and he did it the next night in the playroom with some people who were playing next to us. Yeah. That we knew. I did the same thing. He said, Hey, Carol, Laura's never eaten pussy before. Would you mind if she tried it out? And I went, what? You said what? Anyway. Sure thing. Next thing. I was there and she returned a favor. Wait.

Steve

Slower. Slower. That's a good story. Maybe we'll save that one for the details for another time. Yeah, it was

Laura

good.

Elle

Bonus

Laura

episode. But I got a taste, let's just say that. And realized that was something I really enjoyed.

Steve

Yeah. And so we came back from desire and we started going to a couple of clubs playing with, she was playing with the girls. It was just us. And then about two months later or so, there was a particular couple that flirted extremely hard, that caught my attention, extremely, that we ended up. Planning to do a soft swap that turned into a full swap and never turned back.

Laura

So I'm just gonna say I was shocked because there was no way Steve was ever going to swap. Literally no way. Because he and I have had different experiences in our religious experiences. I had a lot of the pain associated with being a woman. And he, it was a lot easier experience for him. So he was not in a place where I thought he would ever change that ever change that. But the right woman flirted just exactly how he needed her to, to where he said, you know what, I think I'm ready to do a soft swap. I think I'm ready to do it

Tramp

now. I want to comment real quick. I am sure that your communication between the two of you over this entire experience has skyrocketed. It probably has hit new heights and continues to level up constantly has not. As you become more comfortable.

Steve

So tr that is such a critical piece. And if I back away a little bit, I'll say that communication piece and what that did for our relationship is exactly why I made the choice of why I am here and what it's done for us. Because in a matter of weeks before we ever went to desire, then when we went to desire our communication, our closeness, our connection was better than it had ever been in trying to do all the things, the quote right way

Laura

that we'd always been, that

Steve

we'd always taught, been taught and tried and worked at. And so that communication piece of sharing anything and everything and being open, changed the world for us. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you probably really enjoyed watching Laura with other women. Loved it. Okay. Now, Laura, how did you feel the first time you saw him with another woman?

Laura

Oh, my actually fantastic. We had the most unbelievable first swap experience that was literally could not have been better. It set the stage for our journey, and I think it taught us everything we needed to know about doing this lifestyle. Is this the first full swap that was supposed

Elle

to be? It was supposed to be just a soft swap. Yeah. Okay.

Tramp

Yeah. Now, oftentimes when people change yeah. Boundaries mid play and oftentimes alcohol or whatever can be involved. It often doesn't end well because

Elle

you haven't talked about stuff you, you haven't properly, so not recommended.

Steve

So disclaimer, for all your listeners, this is different. Do not follow what I'm about to tell you happen. Listen, would not recommend it at all, and enjoy. Yeah,

Laura

but he knew it would work.

Steve

But I wasn't worried. So we had set up this soft swap. By the time we got to the room that night, everybody knew it wasn't going to be a soft swap except for Laura.

Laura

Yeah. He had clued them in. He changed his mind that day. That's not good communication. No, I'm just gonna say no. But this

Steve

was planned. This was planned. Surprise.

Laura

He even want to surprise me now. Granted, he knew I wanted to go there, but I didn't think he ever would. So it was like this. Ta-da.

Steve

Yeah, it was a bit of a ta-da moment. And again, one of the things that we talk about is for the next number of months, six months, even to this day, we look at how that couple treated us in that experience and their example, their freeness how giving they were, and almost the fact that we went into that without a whole lot of boundaries helped us set up. How we've approached the rest of our lifestyle experience, and it's been really easy and natural for us. Yeah. This there's not been a lot of difficulties or not on the same page as to where we're going and how we've experienced things.

Laura

Yeah, and I it's worth noting because I think we shared this with a lot of couples who are new in their journey, and this couple was so generous with each other and with us. They came in, there was no sense between them that they were worried about what the other one was doing. They weren't checking each other. There was no sort of anxiety between them at all. They came in, all in excited, ready to be there, fully connecting with us, and we're very much connecting type people anyway, and it was a natural fit. And what happened is we're all on the bed and. Dare I say it? Yes. I'm just gonna say it. I'm making out with the guy, he's making out with the girl and the woman crawls over next to me on the bed and says, Laura, Steve wants me to put my guy's cock in your pussy. And I went, what are you talking about? And they all start laughing at me and I said no. And I thought he just wanted to do it for me, let me do this. But he wasn't going to,'cause I knew he would never change. And he says, oh no. I'm totally gonna fuck her. And he did and he proceeded to, and I sat there and just went, what is happening? And realized we're in it's game on and it was game on and we went for the next 14 hours. Like we went all wow. All night marathon. It was, I think that's tops almost anything we've done. It was crazy. It was so unbelievable. And the, I'll say the moment we were, again, a lot of times people start out with same room rules or same bed, all of that. We were in a suite that had two spaces, a bedroom and kind of a living room area and a bathroom. And because of the space and because we hadn't set rules, we just flowed between these spaces. Sometimes we're in the same place, sometimes we weren't. But, after, after 14 hours, yeah. Variety hours. But there was a moment I walked into the bathroom and the woman was laying in the bathtub, soaking in this clawfoot bathtub. Steve's like over the top of her, almost doing the face thing. I'll just say that.

Steve

I'm sorry. The face thing,

Elle

I think he was fucking her face. He was face

Steve

fucking, yeah. Yes.

Laura

Like almost doing pushups on the top. It was like the hottest, sexiest thing, but also startling is all get out.'cause I hadn't mentally prepared for it. I walked in and there, this is happening and I went, oh. And then I just went, oh, that is so hot. She went in the bathroom and came back out. Got to business. But we've realized like we, we aren't so much that we stare at each other all the time. We just both want to enjoy our experience. And that's what that couple taught us. It's to go into it to be present. To let each other conversion. Yeah. To just let each other enjoy it.

Steve

Okay. So that definitely one of your best experiences. Any negative or bad experiences

Tramp

so Jay, just to interrupt your train of thought there real quick. This whole experience has brought three things that have spoken to me is now, do you guys continue to have set boundaries or based on that experience, or is it more we will talk after the fact and then we'll say that was super hot, or let's not do that again.

Laura

We've not had any major boundaries other than to treat people well,

Tramp

and I only say that because our previous guests, whom I adore, are much of the same mindset.

Laura

Yes. Like we just go into knowing that our expectation for each other is. And this is literally, I think, the most important thing that we have learned. I want Steve to have the best experience. I want the woman Steve's with to have the best experience possible. He feels the same about me and the guy, and so we don't do any hovering or worrying. I expect him to treat that woman as well as he would treat me. And if he doesn't, that I would be disappointed in him.

Tramp

That's fair.

Laura

And I would just, he does, just so you know. And he does. Thank you. Consistently does thank, and I'm so proud of him for that. That means I'm his biggest wing woman because I'm so proud of how he shows up with and the way he treats women. And he's a reflection of me. I'm a reflection of him. So the better we show up for other people, again, playing down making yourself smaller to make sure you don't make your spouse jealous. It really doesn't serve anyone well. If that's the situation you probably shouldn't be playing. But because if you're doing this you really need to treat the people around you as though they deserve your best. That's how we do it. And it has worked beautifully for us. It really has allowed us to have amazing relationships, amazing friendships, and I think it's the biggest lesson that we have ever learned in this.

Steve

Yeah. And that's been freeing for us to be so giving to each other and wanting such great things. At times I think we've taken that experience of how good our first experience was. And so we've had an affinity for newer couples and perhaps we need to stop having that affinity. Sometimes it's'cause it doesn't notice'cause we want to give them a good experience and then we'll realize that perhaps they're not in the right space, best place. They're place where they're at. And sometimes there'll end up a little bit of an implosion in the room and we're there to comfort and help. And

Laura

that's been the difficulties. Yeah. Most recently. And

Tramp

with your first couple, they knew, they sensed that you guys needed that immersion, but the same time allowed you guys to connect and just as EL said, yeah, that's compersion what? Both of you just described. Yeah. I think it's

Laura

a different version of conversion, to be honest. Alliteration there. It's not that I wanna sit and watch him. We both wanna be in the game like we both wanna be. No, but you want them to have a good time. Exactly. I want sincerely, desperately want him to have a good time. I'm sad if he doesn't have the best time and I'm sad if anyone doesn't have the best time. And that's, I think, a different way of seeing conversion rather than just the watching. Tramp, you asked about then leading into difficult experiences. I say that's been a lot of our more recent difficult experiences we've taken on newbies or taken on people who are just less experienced. And we find that when a man gets in his head, he's watching his wife have the best time, and trust me, the women have a great time. It can be intimidating. It could be very intimidating for them because Steve is a very strong, confident man and has a lot of strong presence and the women connect with him. Men watch that. And I watched the brain start to implode. I watch the anxiety start coming and the dick follows. I, it's down.

Tramp

I've been there personally. Okay. I think every man has, I think so too.

Laura

And I've done more times like than I can count lately of having to take the man out of the room, go comfort him, go reassure him, try and do a little therapy talk, and, that's gets frustrating. And that's been the difficulties lately is that becomes imbalance. But there's some reality about the ED issues and. That's been something Steve can talk to some of our experience with that. Yeah.

Elle

And we briefly talked about trimix, so that's one, possible solution that a lot of people, the swingers insurance right there, but there are other options. Yeah Steve?

Steve

Yeah. And what Laura was just talking about has really come full circle for me in the last couple of months. So I, I had an ED issue that had set in, but I was managing it. When we got into the lifestyle, I was managing it really well. Started with some pills, then discovered the Trimix, then discovered Trimix and the pills. Then added a Cochran in'cause I hadn't. So I was doing it all and I was. Injecting way too much trimix for an evening session

Laura

because he was committed because I was in it. I'm in it. I

Steve

was not gonna let my wife be disappointed in me. My boner will not fail tonight. That's right.

Elle

It will not. That's a lot

Speaker 6

of pressure. And I was managing it pretty well, but I knew it wasn't sustainable. And we met a couple on the cruise about our same age. And I went up to him after a particular session that we were watching and I said, how in the hell are you so hard for so long? He mentioned that he had a penile implant. It had it for about three years. And I said, in my head, that sounds like a Frankenstein procedure that I don't want anything, but tell me more. A week after week. Can I just

Laura

mention, sorry. I do wanna mention you had also had a prostate surgery and I think this may be an impact of a lot events Yeah. Of about four years ago and after that prostate surgery had made the ED issues so much worse. Yeah. It wasn't just. It wasn't just Ed, it was compounded by that. Okay. Yeah. Fair.

Steve

Yeah. And so a week after getting off the cruise, I'd already had my first and only telemedicine visit with my new favorite doctor. And by two months later, I scheduled and had the penile implant surgery. That was in July. And it is a 10 out of 10. I

Elle

12 outta 10,

Speaker 6

12 out of 10 would recommend.

Elle

And coming from somebody who just experienced this the other night, not knowing, yeah, I was very impressed with how firm you were. But at one point it was interesting because I've never done this, so I had my legs around his waist and my hips were up and he was holding me, and we were fucking that way. And I reached around to play with his balls. Which I've literally never done, so I don't know. Are there magnets in there that might, I don't know. It worked for me though. Wedding ring, gripped underneath there, but I was playing it. I'm like, oh, those are some hard balls right there. That's interesting. And then to find out later. And then that was the pump. Yeah, we have a

Steve

break. And Steve was more than happy to show us, oh, this is how it works here. This here in my balls is the pump up here. Feel this a little bump. This is a ceiling pouch here. Watch how it works.

Laura

We're into this for education because men need to know, they do. Women need to know. So

Steve

now, instead of being challenged by trying to think if I'm gonna be able to stay hard and get hard and all the anxiety that goes with that, I now have to be really mindful of the play that's going on around me and know when everybody else is finished so that I need to shut things down because,

Laura

It actually is challenging sometimes. What I loved. Is later on I was thinking about it and I think we were doing a tour around, the ranch and Steve came up behind me and put his arm around me and pushed up against me and I'm like, oh, he's kinda liking me. And so then I had to thank him later for, doing a little initial pump just to let me know that he liked me, because

Jay

Is that was new? Is that a new scale? Are you a one pump like me or a two pump?

Elle

Yeah, it was very interesting to know. So I really wanted make sure we shared this. Yes.

Steve

And we could spend a whole episode just on this. Sure. But it's interesting that the freedom and the lack of stress and anxiety has literally made me, I think, a better lover because I can just focus in I on who I'm with. And I don't have to worry about am I gonna be able to perform. And it's a game changer.

Laura

He's just present. He's so present, and he can last as long as a woman wants. He can make it a little harder. If she wants it a little harder, he can make it a little less hard if you want. I was trying my new skills

Elle

of using my words and you can come, I want you to come inside me. And he's yeah, it's not gonna happen. I'm like, oh. And that's the, and that's the, that is just the truth. And that's okay.

Laura

Then part of after that prostate surgery in particular made that really challenging, but the experience you're having now with this, it's incredible. What counts so good? So good. So yeah, let's just say if it, if ever it fails. It will be replaced. Yay. And I always say it's like it's the ultimate party trick. In a group, he could just say, is anyone not satisfied yet? Is anyone need more attention? I got you. I got you. Because you could just take care of everyone.

Steve

That implies you've been to like house parties and things. Oh, he might have been.

Laura

We, we've, I think we've done most every experience we could have done in the year and a half that we've been in this. And it's been just a little about 14 months from our first swap.

Steve

In case our listeners miss that from Cancun to today. A year and a half. Exactly. Yeah. Oh my god.

Elle

Yeah we

Steve

count them in dog years. I think it's it's been a lot packed into that year and a half. So

Elle

you're making up for lost time. We are. Here's my favorite part and why I really felt that this was important. And honestly, when you were starting to tell your story, I was tearing up and I was telling Steve earlier, I don't tear up. I had my first husband killed any sort of tears in my eyes. But your story of how you realized I am a sexual being. Yes. And I deserve to be a sexual being, and no one else should be in charge of that. And how you took control of that and made that happen. And the beauty of your spouse, your wonderful spouse who said, I'm on this journey with you. Yes. Because this is important. That's

Laura

it. Because what happened is early on after I got back from Cancun and. We had these sexual breakthroughs and these connecting communication breakthroughs. Yeah. And I was finally like honest about who I am and what I want and made again decisions. I was fully going to remove myself from this high demand religion experience and I freed myself. What happened is he saw me as me. Yes. And it's there, I want this. You are there you are. After all these years. There's the girl I thought I married that's just cocooned and butterflies really genuinely is like my spirit animal. There's a lot about butterfly that I relate to. I like to flutter. I like to touch all the beautiful things. Oh yes, you do. And and I also cocoon when I am in high stress and I'd cocooned so much for so many decades and I just released that cocoon and I came out and I have just been flying and he supported that. Not only has he supported that, but he's joined me and realized. This is the greatest thing that's ever happened for us individually and as a couple and then adding the relationships and the people. Yeah, there's no going back. I just always say, you can't put this genie back in the bottle now. Like we have been unleashed and we are having the greatest time of our lives, meaning

Steve

the most wonderful, incredible people having the greatest experiences. And last night was the Christmas party at the ranch. And to watch these two together and separately just so completely in their element, flirting, talking, socializing, playing. You could see, you could just see it from across the room. Oh, thanks. Where they've come So far

Laura

we have always been, we've always been social people, but it's taken me some comfortability to claim that part of my showing up. I finally have learned to flirt and I'm really good at it now. And I'm still working on it. Yeah. I'm gonna, I have to work on you, but I will say about the sexual piece. What is so crazy is how much, again, I had cocooned myself even in our sexual experiences. And I have found this piece of me that just is absolutely, I go in with reckless abandon. Yeah. Like I just as free as I can possibly be and that's how I want to show up. And I am so happy to know this part of me finally and to have integrated it as part of my entire wholeness. It's beautiful. It's been such a gift for me to give it to myself.

Elle

Once again, I love that you guys as a couple came over here and came to Colorado and said, we're gonna go to the ranch. We're gonna spend. Four days. What'd you do Thursday and the weekend pass. And then when we're done here, we'll head over for Sunday fun day. And it continues to show what kind of wonderful place, magical place it is. It's our own little Disney World land. Oh, it's incredible. And just doing my little ish spiel, to talk about the ranch for just a minute and I'm not even gonna go off my little pre-printed thing there, but just to give it the props that it deserves and the staff and the owner and what they have cultivated over the years. And it's, been a long time coming and it's been something first and then something else. And, he's been doing this for 25 years and it is truly a. One of the top clubs that you can find in the world. And it is a place where you can go and feel comfortable and welcome. I think

Jay

it's classy, it's clean. It's just a great place to be. It really is. Check'em out@scarletranch.com.

Laura

Yeah, we have had been to quite a few clubs this year and there we've been on the cruises. We've been to desire, we've done it all. But Scarlet Ranch is absolutely at the top of the list for us for clubs and we will absolutely be back. Yay. We loved it.

Tramp

And I think we need to have you guys back. It seems like we've only uncovered the tip of the iceberg in this interview. I agree with you. We were just riveted

Elle

today. That's just the tip. Yeah, let them go.

Tramp

We had such, a general outline for the show, but your guys' story is quite frankly, incredible. Yeah. Thank you. It really is. Thank you. Thank you. Truly. Thank you for sharing that with us. Yeah,

Elle

You guys really were very vulnerable. You opened yourselves up, but I think that's just who you are right now. But just to give. Again this comes back to tramp. Why we were so glad to join you on this journey with the podcast, and I'm thankful

Tramp

every day.

Elle

Thank you. And but the joy we really get from hearing other people's stories and hearing how they got here.'cause no one started this way. I can't imagine there's too many people that, oh yeah, I started dating and was immediately in the lifestyle. That might change, who knows? But the fact that everybody's story's unique and they have something to offer everybody else is probably my favorite part.

Steve

And I just wanna say this couple, is the exception to the rule because they proved that the lifestyle can save your marriage.

Elle

This is true. You're right. Because that is something that we would definitely say, no, it's not going to. But look at that. And

Steve

one note I'll say on that is that. What saved our marriage was stepping into those sexy spaces together and us rediscovering ourselves together and talking about it and talking about that. And that all happened well before we had any interactions with other couples, soft or full, or anything we

Laura

had done. I'll say we have done our time in therapy. We've done a lot of work. And the stars aligned in that moment where it was finally time, it was make or break for me, I think just personally it was either, I needed to reclaim me and save the marriage and put it back together how it could possibly be, and that just all happened together.

Elle

Well, Steve, you were telling me when we were cuddling on The Foursquare, we were talking about all this and you told a story about how, you guys had talked about what you had experienced at Temptation and she got up in the morning. Yeah. I love this story is so significant. So yeah this is

Steve

actually the, it was the pivotal piece. So she gets home from Cancun. I get home from British Columbia. It's Sunday. We had the conversation, heard about Mexico. We go to bed that night. It's still a little

Laura

tenuous between us

Steve

it was, but the next morning happened to be a day we had off work. Monday morning she gets up, goes in the bathroom, comes back,

Laura

and I thought, it's now or never. Yeah, let's see if this can, let's see. Could put this together. And

Steve

She drops her robe, she calls in bed naked, which hadn't happened in quite some time. Five hours later, we look up at each other and say, what the hell just happened? Best sex of decades. Yes. And it was, it's'cause we were both

Laura

fully present. We were all in. You're both. That was that moment we were allowing, I think this is the key. To allow your partner to truly know you, to know who you are, to know. Know that you have different desires, to know that you want more, to know that you find people sexy, to know that you're attracted to someone of your same gender, and to someone being open to receiving that yes. And that my partner wants to know this about me and I wanna know this about him. That is true freedom. That is the freedom that when you can be truly known, that's where your safety is. And we've actually said so many times, you think that there's greater risk to the marriage by being a lifestyle. If you're doing the lifestyle right? There is greater security because we give each other everything I want so much good for him. He wants so much good for me. We don't hold each other back. We fully encourage each other. Therefore, why on earth would I ever leave this man? Why would he leave me? We have unbelievable security because we give each other every opportunity to enjoy beautiful people and we love to talk about it.

Tramp

I think as a closing thought with this. I know communication has come up a lot during this episode, but Laura, you said something, they're very poignant that the communication needs to be a two way street.

Laura

Yes. Must be. Yeah. It

Tramp

can't be one way. It's not a lecture.

Laura

No. It can't be trying to convince someone of anything. No. And that was another piece I didn't try and convince him that we needed to do this. I opened it up and we slowly discovered together. And when you don't feel like you're pulled into it Yeah. You're, you go far more willingly. And I think there's some real reality, I think when a woman wants the lifestyle first, more than Does a little smoother than it goes a little smoother.'Cause women are more likely to feel like they're being dragged and they're not enough. And the women run the lifestyle and we do, we run the world. We really do. Girls and but the lifestyle, yeah. Yeah. We don't rule the world yet, but we'd like to. That makes all the difference. Yeah.

Tramp

No, thank you guys. Just so much. And I definitely foresee another interview with you guys in the future. I agree. I think there's a lot more ground to cover.

Elle

Yeah. It's pretty deep, isn't it? Oh,

Tramp

deep. We weren't kidding. Deep and wide. Yeah. Deep and wide. There have

Laura

literally just beautiful, just this was just the tip. Oh, there's much. Maybe that should be the title,

Tramp

but before we close out everyone, I am so excited to give a special shout out to one of our sponsors. Shivers. Shivers is an edible CBD derived sensation enhancer, and it takes intimacy to the next level with two specialized formulas, one for men and one for women. Shivers kicks in for me in about 30 to 60 minutes. Giving me just a really nice clean energy boost while heightening every touch and the sensation. That is absolutely the best part. The next day, I just feel amazing. I'm not hung over. Just more energy and when I get a chance to play, definitely a lingering smile. Find out what everyone is talking about with shivers and experience the tingle for yourself. You can find a link on our website@unapologeticswingers.com, and if you find yourself@shivers.store, which is their URL, just use a coupon code us for unapologetic, swingers for 10% off your entire order, and more so than anything, let us know what you think. We always love the feedback and saying, you know what? We heard about it. We tried it, and it was so good.

Elle

And I think that actually goes for feedback on the podcasts. If, I think we've shown in the last couple episodes that, if you reach out to us, we'll probably put you on the podcast.

Tramp

We love just meeting people we've been very blessed, I would say, in the last couple months where now listeners are starting to reach out and they say, Hey, we're going to be at the ranch this weekend. Is there any chance that J or l or the Tramp

Elle

Yeah.

Tramp

Can we just meet you guys? And that is so flattering and awesome. And personally I love it. I love it too.

Laura

And I'll say, we did not know you had a podcast. And actually Jay reached out to us. He doesn't, yeah he did. But we didn't know. But we think this is pretty incredible that you're doing this and so we've since listened to several this weekend, so we are impressed with what you're doing. Good. Thank you. Good work. Thank you.

Tramp

But guys, just thank you for listening and continuing to come on the journey. And if you need to reach us, we can be reached at unapologetic swingers@gmail.com, wherever you have to be listening. Our biggest ask is leave a review. And if it's unkind, we prefer an email.

Elle

Until next time, I'm El and

Steve

I'm the Tramp. And I'm Jay.

Elle

Be sexy.

Steve

Be confident. Be unapologetic.