Unapologetic Swingers

Unapologetic Swingers: Epsiode 41 - Ariel — Love Without Limits

• Unapologetic Swingers • Season 1 • Episode 41

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 43:05

Meet Ariel, who will be jumping in as an additional co-host while Jay and Elle have their west coast adventures. Today we deep dive into polyamory and discover more swingers practice versions of it than we think.

Visit us at UnapologeticSwingers.com

Also visit our partners: Shivers.Store and use the discount US at checkout for 10% off your order and our newest sponsor, The Scarlet Ranch! Colorado's premier Lifestyle club

Elle

Welcome back to Unapologetic Swingers. I'm Elle.

The Tramp

And I'm the tramp. And everyone, we just wanna thank you so much for continuing to come on this journey with us as we explore the lifestyle, the highs and lows, and everything in between.

Elle

The good, the bad, and the ugly.

The Tramp

And today we are just so excited to introduce you guys to someone we hope will be a continuing character in our band of characters.

Elle

Oh, I like that.

The Tramp

Along with, J&L as they blast off to the West Coast and have a lot of adventures of their own.

Elle

Yes. We plan to keep very busy and we will even share some of those adventures.

The Tramp

Yes, indeed. For

Elle

sure. But yes, I leave tomorrow, so we gotta make some changes and some adjustments so that we continue to roll.

The Tramp

So everyone, I am so pleased to introduce everyone to Ariel, who has been a friend of the show for quite a while now, and we just love her to pieces. Mm-hmm. And she has agreed to kind of step in as needed to help me keep things going on the Colorado side, while J&L really get their feet underneath them out west, and then we can continue to collaborate, and we'll do some remote-

Elle

Yeah, we

The Tramp

can do- Recordings.

Elle

Some that with the four of us, or you guys could interview some people here, and then we'll find some interesting people, I am sure, out on the West Coast and interview them. So I'm excited for actually this new development and dimension to the podcast.

The Tramp

Me too. So Ariel, welcome.

Ariel

Hi, I'm Ariel. Not really sure what else to say besides hi.

Elle

Well, we're gonna ask you some questions. How's that?

Ariel

That sounds like a plan.

Elle

I would love to know a little bit more about how you got in the lifestyle and, what your dynamic is right now how's that sound?

Ariel

That sounds great. Simply put, almost five years ago, been in a marriage for 16 years, now together 21 almost. And I knew there was something missing, and so I did some research and stumbled across, uh, non-monogamy.

Elle

As happens to the best of us. Yes.

Ariel

Instagram is a beautiful thing. And, did a few months of research, approached the husband, he simply put he wasn't surprised.

Elle

Oh, was he waiting for this topic to come up?

Ariel

I think he knew me better than I knew myself.

Elle

Okay.

Ariel

And based on my past and things that I've been through and the way I've always lived very sexually.

Elle

Uh-huh. And open and-

Ariel

And open. And I've been bisexual my whole life. And so yeah, he was not surprised and was willing to go down the journey with me. And so four and a half years later, here we are.

Elle

What a good man.

Ariel

Yeah.

Elle

So understanding.

The Tramp

Now, I imagine that you guys went through the steep learning curve, for lack of better terms, that a lot of couples go through early on and-

Elle

Especially if you've been in a marriage for a while and you have that dynamic.

Ariel

Yeah. Going from complete monogamy to, okay, let's open things up, see where we land. Obviously, the typical way was, yeah, definitely okay with being with women. I kind of made that very clear though that, no, I also very much interested in exploring other penises. And- I'd like to

Elle

see a new dick.

Ariel

Yes. The same dick for the rest of my life did not sound appealing, not that- I mean,

Elle

not, that's not- Right. Yeah, right. Right.

Ariel

But, uh, every experience with every person you come across is just new and exciting and can bring its own value. Yeah. So, yeah, we kinda threw him in the deep end right away because that's what he needs. Mm-hmm. And then we, yeah, definitely had pitfalls and discovered that jealousy is very real and that trying to figure everything out. You stumble along the way, but you just gotta get back up and try, try again.

The Tramp

Now, I think jealousy is a common, facet- mm-hmm. of the lifestyle. And it's really all about how we as either a couple or an individual, how we are able to process things. There are, there are a lot of people out there who are just naturally very jealous people. And there are some like myself who are not, tend to fall in the opposite, which I would call the conversion side when you actually, it gives you pleasure to see someone that you are involved with, your partner, receiving pleasure, even though you may not be involved.

Elle

Right, right. And I think that, granted, we've talked about it before, our dynamic was, you know, we met and then three weeks later jumped in, but with someone who has a long-term relationship and you have those years of the monogamy and the- mm-hmm. only looking for each other and all that, it seems like that could be fairly common to come across those pangs of,"Ooh, am I okay with this? I'm not sure I'm okay with this. Oh, tonight I'm not okay with this.

Ariel

Yeah. I would, I, I definitely think that I fell further on the conversion side very quickly and he, while not so much jealousy, just realized, I think we also both realized that there was like just insecurities that come up.

Elle

Sure.

Ariel

When you start discovering different people and the way your partner interacts with them and seeing-

Elle

How they respond.

Ariel

their eyes light up a little bit and you're kind of like,"Oh, hmm, that was interesting. I didn't expect that to really happen." Right. And I don't think I expected to even feel that way once I saw it. Mm-hmm. And, I would say probably within the first six months, we did what I think a lot of lifestyle couples do, which was completely just go for all of it.

Elle

Oh

Ariel

yeah. And there were- Like checking, ch- check, check, check. Oh, we, we are required to try an orgy. We are required to try this, right? Yeah. I, yeah, I think it's an unwritten rule that you just have to just jump right in to figure out what you like and don't like, good or bad. And we thankfully, I think, quickly realized what we did and didn't like. And I think it was very surprising on his part that he quickly realized, yes, obviously he liked seeing me with women. That was, I think, not really a big question. I

The Tramp

mean, to be fair, I may not speak for all males, I could definitely speak for myself. But it's, it's- High majority. Ooh, it's, uh, yeah, it is quite the enjoyable thing to witness.

Elle

A lot of women like to watch that too.

Ariel

Yes. And I, I think for him, the biggest surprise was seeing me the first time with another man that I actually was truly into, and it wasn't just fun group play stuff and how much he kind of started developing some compersion towards that as well. Oh, good. And yeah, so we've had a lot of fun. We've had a lot of downs. We've gone through different things and at this moment we're still in the good spots and enjoying it.

Elle

So you and your husband, have kind of stepped into another dimension of the lifestyle that I think a lot of people don't really know or understand-

Ariel

mm-hmm.

Elle

um, which is the poly world. And I- Yeah. How did that come about once you guys got your okay feelings with each other and then you stepped into that?

Ariel

It's sort of derived from me probably from the very beginning. I've always been very needing some sort of emotional connection to truly connect with somebody sexually and I'm very much attracted to people's intelligence, not just their physicality-

Elle

Sapiosexual?

Ariel

Yeah. See, I didn't wanna throw out words.

Elle

No, I love using that

Ariel

word. Okay. Sapiosexual and demisexual are two very strong components of both my husband and I. And I think that that led us down a path of realizing how difficult it was to truly make a four-way connection with another couple. Mm-hmm. And we were quickly realizing that one or the other was taking one for the team, as you hear in the lifestyle- Oh yeah. and quickly realized we were not willing to continue to do that. And so that started more talks about going off on our own separately, and I think we both realized that we were never going to be good at just fucking people once and- mm-hmm. walking away.

The Tramp

Right. There are a lot of couples who, that's their happy place.

Elle

Right.

The Tramp

That is their comfort

Elle

zone. They don't want the entanglements and the emotions- Yeah. and all that. They still like those people- Right. but it's not gonna be something that they need to do on an ongoing basis.

Ariel

Yeah. And for us, we just realized that I would want some sort of deeper connection with somebody before just jumping into the sack. Now, that's not an always thing for me. I do tend to enjoy a little fun here and there without complications. Mm-hmm. But my deeper satisfaction comes from having a connection with somebody. And so about a year in, we both talked and both agreed that we were willing and open to starting to date quote unquote people separately. And that very much did start as kind of hookup culture-

Elle

Sure.

Ariel

using the apps and all that, which, you know, obviously is geared way easier towards women than it is for men. Right.

Elle

I've heard that as well. I didn't have as many contacts as my wife did.

Ariel

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

The Tramp

Now, in the beginning, like a lot of people new to the lifestyle, the, they start with this whole laundry list of rules. And did you find yourself and your husband in the same boat with starting off, even though you were starting to get into the, very unknown waters of polyamory, were there still a lot of rules in place or was it pretty much a free for all?

Ariel

Oh, no. Uh, very boundary heavy, very rule heavy, um you know, we set some pretty big boundaries around everything, which-

Elle

When you started dating other people or when you started in the lifestyle?

Ariel

In the lifestyle, yes. Yeah. We started out fairly slow and I pushed through some of those pretty quickly just because, they say go at the slowest pace of the slowest person. I know my husband and if I let him go at the slowest pace- Never get anywhere. We would never get anywhere. Aw,

Elle

we love you.

Ariel

Yeah, we love him, but, you know, sometimes and that's been the, a trend in our relationship forever. But with getting into dating separately and what people refer to as polyamory and versus just swinger stuff, it was very much no sleepovers, not seeing somebody for more than once or twice a week at most, boundaries around what time your curfew is and things like that. We first started, it was a rule. Nobody who is single, they have to always also be partnered or married. Mm-hmm. And things like that. So just, yeah, a lot of boundaries, a lot of rules and, just like being, as a swinger, you might start off with a set of boundaries and rules, but, as you realize this doesn't work or this doesn't work or this does work or you meet a different person and all of a sudden now you're like,"Hmm, that boundary doesn't fit this relationship." You know, it's definitely not a one size fits all.

Elle

Will you do me a quick favor-

Ariel

mm-hmm.

Elle

um, just for people who may not quite understand the definition- mm-hmm. will you explain polyamory and the dynamic of that?

Ariel

Yeah. So polyamory is, for all intents and purposes, multiple love is what the word means. Oh, that makes sense. And, um, I kind of explain it to people that I'm talking to at one of our local places that I think we mentioned sometimes on this podcast that I get frequently asked about since we are probably the minority there, essentially- You can say

Elle

it, it's the ranch.

Ariel

Oh, the ranch. Yeah. The ranch. We- We, we mentioned it

Elle

almost every

Ariel

episode. Yeah. Okay. So we, are definitely members there, which is how I actually know the tramp and L. And, I frequently just explain it as, do you have more than one kid? And most people do. And I said,"Do you love both your kids?" And they said,"Well, of course I love both my kids." And I said,"But do you love them in the same way?" And they say,"Well, I mean, yes and no." And I said,"Exactly. You don't actually love your kids the exact same way, just like you don't love two different best friends the same way." The only difference is, is that we're adding sex in usually. And yes, it obviously is more complicated than that in its own ways, but essentially people forget that love is infinite, the only thing that isn't is time.

Elle

Right. Yeah. So

Ariel

it's-

Elle

No, I think that's, that was a beautiful example of it, you can't love more than one person- mm-hmm. and, and share that. And yeah, there's gonna be difference in how much or how or-

Ariel

Yeah.

Elle

you know, and I liked that. Thank you.

The Tramp

Now I've heard it said, and I believe it's pretty, accurate that polyamory, while it is under the greater umbrella of, ethical non-monogamy-

Ariel

mm-hmm.

The Tramp

that it is in a lot of ways, basically the lifestyle on hard mode because oftentimes in the lifestyle, it's one couple and they're gonna go to a club or resort or get on the Cassidy and whatnot, they'll have a date, they may have an experience with another couple, there aren't necessarily the emotional ties involved, whereas with polyamory, you also have that emotional component and I think for a lot of lifestyle folks, that's gonna scare them because- I think so. because, there is that fear of,"Well, what if I lose my partner? What if my partner truly falls deeply in love with this person?" And yeah, I can plainly see That it would be, quite unnerving.

Elle

Right. Your spidey senses might just be up a little bit more for it. And I think that's why people, struggle with understanding how two people can, share that kind of love with another person.

Ariel

Sure. So, what I usually say in response to that is, do you really think that your person fucking other people freely is gonna keep them with you if there's something fundamentally wrong with your relationship.

Elle

Absolutely. 100%.

Ariel

Yeah. There's never a guarantee in any relationship. And one of the nice things about polyamory is that I have seen frequently with the people that I know well that are swingers, purely they say,"We only fuck, we don't do texts, we only basically meet up to have sex." And I've seen them get divorced- Sure. for one reason or another, but I've also explained to them if you actually did fall in love with somebody else and there was nothing actually fundamentally wrong with your relationship to begin with, then you don't have to choose. Yeah. And you don't have to hide anything and you don't have to build up resentment because you can't express how you're feeling about somebody because I've met plenty of couples in the lifestyle so far that have an ongoing relationship with another couple for years even- Sure. sometimes they text, they go out, they go on family vacations together, they go rent ski houses together or whatnot. And I've gently pointed out a few times that what they're doing is polyamory. Right. I have flat out said,"If such and such texted you in the middle of the night and said, Oh my God, my tire just broke down. Such and such is out of town. Can you please come help me? Let's say it was the woman, the husband would literally get up at 2:00 AM in the morning and drive to go save her.

Elle

Sure.

Ariel

How is that any different?

Elle

Yeah.

Ariel

And then they kind of give me the look like, oh, huh, I didn't think about it like that and now I need to go question my existence.

Elle

I think, what is vitally important is, the same thing we talk about every episode though, is you have to have, even more of a level of communication with your husband than the average swinger.

Ariel

Yeah. I think there needs to be a different level of emotional intelligence- mm-hmm. and a different level of communication. And then just the idea that you really, truly do have to wake up every morning and choose your partner. And that's kind of a strangely beautiful thing that most people should be doing anyway.

The Tramp

Bouncing back to something you just said, Ariel, we love our labels- Right. whether, you know, we're straight or bi, or if we're swingers or polyamorous or whatever- I think people in general like to fit into these nice, neat little boxes just as you clearly illustrated, the lines blur. Mm-hmm. And so when you point out to people, well, you're kind of practicing when you have a consistent couple that you may have played with, you may play with weekly or monthly and just like you said, that you go on vacations together and do all these activities together, it's a little bit of a mind fuck to expand their horizons.

Ariel

It's happened more often than not. Yeah.

Elle

Well, which is why I think this is beautiful that we're talking about it today- Yeah. is so that you get this opportunity to kind of open some minds and, maybe open up a dialogue for somebody to have a conversation of, well, you know, we were kind of already doing this. H- if we, look at this deeper, how are we gonna go about it? And, maybe it helps somebody take another step in the journey.

Ariel

Yeah. I think for most people, I do believe that there are a lot of couples out there who purely just enjoy the fun, sexy flirting, hooking up whenever it feels right, doing all the fun sex stuff. But I think that frequently, and maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like frequently there are couples where one person is probably leaning slightly towards wishing or wanting, uh, or desire for slightly deeper connections with people and, walking away from certain situations, feeling like,"Well, that was fun, but yeah, now I kind of feel empty inside." And I've talked to people about feeling almost like they don't even wanna keep doing things. Yes, ma'am. They love the flirty fun stuff, but they feel so kind of empty later-

Elle

Yeah.

Ariel

and they don't feel really fulfilled and they don't know why they think that it's something inherently broken them, in them, and if they could realize that there is possibly other paths that still can keep your relationship secure or both of you feeling good about things, there are other opportunities out there for people.

The Tramp

I think what you're describing there is we referenced earlier the couples who are one and done, where they have this inherent fear. They're never going to, play with another couple more than one time or maybe two times on, on a stretch. Mm-hmm. You know, those are a category of swinger that I would kind of call sport fuckers. Sure. There's nothing wrong. Yeah.

No.

The Tramp

There's nothing wrong that's your wheelhouse. But Ariel, what I think you were just describing there is oftentimes that type of interaction lacks the connection. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's, fun in the moment, but you're right. You are ultimately left kind of empty. You're like,"I feel like there's something missing here."

Ariel

Mm-hmm.

Elle

Yeah. I, definitely need that sabiosexual, that connection that, make me laugh or, you don't have to be super intelligent, but- mm-hmm. speak coherently and be entertaining or, just a good person to sit next to and to talk to. Yeah.

Ariel

Some charisma.

Elle

I like that. Some humor. A little bit, yes.

The Tramp

So L, they just can't be pretty?

Elle

If they're a woman- Or there's a time and

The Tramp

place

Elle

for that. You know? I mean, maybe, but it probably wouldn't be Oh, I'd probably be looking at them going,"Well, why are they talking to me? Or,

Ariel

or is it why are you still talking? I would disagree with that side.

Elle

But, um, yeah, if they're kind of empty inside, I'm not sure that that's gonna be a But you know what I find most people in their lifestyle are not empty inside. They're really interesting-

Ariel

Not ones that have been around for a while at

Elle

least. Right. Yeah. The ones that fade out pretty quickly. Right. They're not finding their connection either. But I think that the majority of people, which is why we continue to do this and bring people on the podcast and talk about their lives and their adventures and, the path that they've taken is because everybody's story's pretty interesting.

The Tramp

I'll say that time and time again. As we have some amazing couples that have come on over the years, and they'll say, well, tramp, our story's not interesting."

Elle

Right.

The Tramp

You know, it's, it's rather boring. And to that, I'll just simply say bullshit.

Elle

Yeah.

The Tramp

They're, I guarantee you- I agree. Bullshit. There's going to be a couple out there, maybe they're just starting to explore swinging in the lifestyle-

Elle

mm-hmm.

The Tramp

or even, ethical non-monogamy as a whole, and I guarantee whether it's as soon as the episode drops or months or maybe even years later, they're gonna listen to it and say,"Holy shit, that's us."

Elle

Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh my God, they were ta- they were speaking to us. Right. They were speaking to me. We've

The Tramp

gotten

Elle

emails to

The Tramp

that.

Elle

Oh yeah, we have.

Ariel

Yeah. I would say that since we've been on the lifestyle, I have met some of the most amazing, interesting people, and I've done some pretty crazy things throughout my life, where I have met lots of interesting, crazy people. But, in general, I feel like most of the people in the lifestyle in the ethical non-monogamy world in general just are interesting, caring humans.

Elle

Yes, I would agree with that 100%.

The Tramp

Yeah. With empathy-

Elle

mm-hmm.

The Tramp

automatic, you know, just built into our DNA.

Elle

Yeah. Yeah. I think I was talking with somebody a couple of months ago and I had made the comment that people in the lifestyle are givers.

Ariel

Yeah.

Elle

If you're not a giver, you don't last.

Ariel

You certainly do not.

Elle

You don't. And they're like,"Oh, wow, I never thought about that. And then, they're thinking,"Oh, I am a giver. Yeah, that's right." You know, and,"Oh, honey, you're a giver too." Okay, that makes some sense.

Ariel

Well, it's, it's been funny to me as I've been through my journey and had different partners throughout this and, I feel like every partner I've come across, we're both telling each other very early on,"Well, I'm a pleaser. Well, but I'm a pleaser." So how is this gonna work?'Cause I wanna please you and focus on you, but you wanna please me and focus on me. So how do we come about? And honestly, it ends up just being an incredibly beautiful thing-

Elle

Yeah.

Ariel

when two people are just so into wanting to focus and pleasure their other partner, you really just learn how to make it work, but it, it's-

Elle

And it's interesting for somebody who's a pleaser to take that moment to let go-

Ariel

Yes.

Elle

and let someone take care of them, that's kind of a growth-

Ariel

Yeah.

Elle

situation

Ariel

as well. To be able to sit in the moment and let somebody else truly actually-

Elle

Take care of you.

Ariel

take care of you.

Elle

Yeah.

The Tramp

I think it may have been Jay or it could've been a previous guest that say, look at a lot of the occupations that-

Elle

Yeah, it was Jay.

The Tramp

are, are in the lifestyle- mm-hmm. in terms of, you have military and firemen and policemen, you know, they're protectors. You have a lot of teachers and nurses and occupations like that, all very intelligent, all have to be on top of their game, but they're all natural either protectors or caretakers or they support other people.

Elle

Yeah. Yeah.

Ariel

Yeah, definitely high on the list of occupations and lifestyle are people that are drawn towards doing a job that either services others or-

Elle

Takes care of.

Ariel

takes care of others.

Elle

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Let's take a moment, from this really wonderful conversation to thank one of our sponsors, the Scarlet Ranch, North America's premier upscale private lifestyle club. If you've been listening, you probably noticed our guests don't just talk about it, they live it. And once you walk through those doors, you'll see exactly why, two bars to loosen you up, an incredible restaurant to set the mood and downstairs? Well, let's just say open and private play spaces designed for whatever kind of night you're craving. Curious, you should be. Visit scarletranch.com and let your next adventure begin. So something that I've been thinking about, and I think a lot of people, a lot of our listeners would be really curious to know you've been, on this polyamory journey for a while and surely you have hit some pitfalls and made some mistakes and is there anything that You can think of to give advice to other couples who are toying with dipping their toe in this, as far as things to talk about, to discuss ahead of time or to be aware of that can happen as you're figuring it all out?

Ariel

Yeah. So one of the big things that I think, I should talk about is, what is commonly referred to as NRE or new relationship energy, which probably everybody in the world has experienced at some point upon those first couple dates where you were just like,"Oh my God, this is my person and I've just like lost my mind." And I'm not talking about just in lifestyle, I'm talking about in general and in the world. But it causes insane amounts of dopamine and oxytocin hits all at that beginning stages. And that is something that you frequently experience in polyamory. I think I see people experiencing it just in the regular- mm-hmm. you know, non-monogamy lifestyle world, but it can be a beast and it can get hold of you and cloud your thoughts and cloud your logic and really get its grip on you. And, I've seen it happen to me, I've seen it happen to my husband where we've met somebody and the connection is just so incredible that you kind of lose sight in those moments of time, and which is why I think having some pretty good strong boundaries at the beginning is kind of important. You really do have to train and learn how to regulate yourself in the midst of that new relationship energy. Some people are going to inherently be better at it than others. So learning how to navigate that and regulate that on both ends, the person experiencing it with a new partner and your current existing partner having to watch you come home with that giddy look and forgetting to maybe text that you arrived safely or- Right. going past curfew or whatever and having to kind of give each other some grace on both ends because the existing partner who is maybe currently not in a relationship, watching their partner go off and have all these exciting feelings and coming home and just feeling euphoria basically, and learning how to manage that and really needing to set boundaries around, okay, are we gonna talk about this date that you just went on that you're coming home glowing from right now when I'm probably in all my feels and been sitting at home alone or- Yeah. maybe I went out with a friend, but I still was constantly thinking about what is my partner doing on their date and, oh my God, is the sex probably amazing and they're not even thinking about me anymore. And, and just really learning on both ends how to manage that for each other and come together in a healthy way. I think that I wish that my husband and I would have done more discussions around that at the beginning so that we wouldn't have fallen into some of the pitfalls we did of, arguments and discussions around, well, you got home 30 minutes late, you didn't even text me once while you were on your date and really just trying to decide where- What do they need? Yeah, what do you need? What do I need to not have to sacrifice those feelings because that is part of the joy of it. And so yeah, that, that's probably, at the beginning, what really could have helped us more was to really sit down and understand and really learn about what NRE really is and how it can affect not just each other, but your entire world, because it really does chemically change something in your brain.

Elle

Sure. What is, a good way that you guys now will do to reconnect after, if you're dating someone and he's dating someone, how do you guys pull back together to make sure that you're solid there?

Ariel

Well, lots of communication, lots of check-ins, trying to intentionally connect, whether that's- On dates. You know, dates or-

Elle

Each other.

Ariel

I mean, sometimes it's as silly and as modane is, getting back to some of the really stupid basic things that you do in your domestic everyday marriage life that you're probably not experiencing and kind of getting back to reality to like,"Oh, wow. Yeah, we've built this life together for 21 years and it's still there."

Elle

And still important.

Ariel

Yeah, it's still important.

The Tramp

You know, Elle, she mentioned something that has become a, cornerstone of this fine podcast.

Elle

And today's podcast is brought to you by the word

The Tramp

communication.

Elle

Communication.

Ariel

Yeah. I know.

The Tramp

It just continues to highlight that it doesn't matter what flavor of E&M you are-

Elle

mm-hmm.

The Tramp

communication continues to be so critical. I know from our talks with people in the kink community and BDSM, communication is very critical there. Yeah. In polyamory, critical in swinging the lifestyle, also hypercritical.

Elle

Yeah.

The Tramp

So that's one thing that, number one, it needs to be there from the beginning to be successful, but it also needs to continue. It never stops.

Elle

Right.'Cause things change. Attitudes change, desires change, how you handle things change, your experiences change. So then you don't need to maybe do something one way, you can do it a different way. Yeah. So you just have to stay on top of that.

The Tramp

Right. But your partner is not a mind reader, at least not that I know of. So-

Elle

No, mine's not. Sorry, I just took a minute.

Ariel

Mine is

Elle

not together. He does pretty well too. I mean, he does pretty well.

Ariel

I'm, I'm better at it than he does.

The Tramp

But still, I- I'm not gonna

Elle

say anything. I know he's gonna listen to this.

The Tramp

Um- Love you, Jay. You know, you not only have to be willing to listen to your partner, but you also have to be willing sometimes to tell them the things that quite frankly scared the shit out of you.

Elle

Yes. The

Ariel

uncomfortable stuff. Absolutely.

Elle

Oh God, yeah.

Ariel

The amount of uncomfortable conversations that I have had throughout the polyamory journey, I would say even in the first six months of us becoming, I, what I would call polyamory, even though just side note is that I, I playfully call myself poly swing only because I want the connections and the relationships, but I still absolutely love the fun, flirty, let's do things- mm-hmm. with other people but yeah, just the uncomfortable conversations having to be had after we got into polyamory, I feel like we're way more intense and way more frequent, than they were when we were just doing lifestyle stuff.

Elle

Right. Well, you're also, talking about more emotions- Yes. more deep connections, things like that. So you have to stay on top of that.

Ariel

Yeah, you have to stay on top of it a lot more. And you have to both be willing, as the tramp said, to listen to each other. But I wanted to add that it's not just about listening, it's about truly hearing-

Elle

Yes.

Ariel

one another and truly being willing to sit back and self-reflect and look into where did I, or where could I have done slightly better-

Elle

mm-hmm.

Ariel

and continuing to just keep working on that, because like you said, communication just has to keep going, but it, it's also a, just a constant journey of hopefully showing up as your best self better and better every day.

Elle

You're right, Ariel, you do have to look within as well, not just judging your partner on how they're behaving, but what am I doing? Did I overstep somewhere? Yes. Do I need to watch how I phrase something-

Ariel

mm-hmm.

Elle

so that I don't hurt anyone's feelings, it's not about me and my world.

Ariel

Yeah. And you're gonna hurt. Yeah. There's going to be hurt all the way around. I, I don't think there's probably a single person in the lifestyle that hasn't unintentionally hurt their partner in some way or the other. Sure. And it's- Again,

Elle

that happens outside of E&M

Ariel

to- Yeah, that happens all the, all the time. Mm-hmm. As I've known the tramp for a while now, I think you are always very big on remembering that repair is a huge deal.

The Tramp

You stole my thunder. I was just gonna bring that up. Oh,

Ariel

sorry. You could elaborate.

The Tramp

You're absolutely correct in terms of it's not limited to swinging or poly or any of that, but even in the most vanilla of vanilla relationships-

Elle

Life skills.

The Tramp

Yeah, it's a life skill. We're not a carbon copy of our partner because if everyone was exactly the same, this world would be a very boring place. Mm-hmm. So naturally with other people, including your partner, there's gonna be friction from time to time, and friction is normal and even healthy because it allows you to see things from a different point of view. But Ariel, just as you said, it's all about not only listening to another point of view, but also getting past the conflict and into the repair stage that truly strengthens your relationship.

Elle

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well said, Tramp.

The Tramp

Thank you.

Elle

Yes. Go Tramp.

The Tramp

Well, guys, right now I'm gonna pause real quick and give a shout out to our sponsor, Shivers. Shivers, the edible hemp derived sensation enhancer that takes intimacy to the next level with specialized formulas for both men and women, shivers kicks in after 30 to 60 minutes for me, and it gives me a nice clean energy boost while heightening every touch and sensation. The best part, you'll feel amazing the next day. Not all hungover, just more energy and a lingering smile. Find out why everyone's talking about shivers and experience the tingle for yourself. You can get your own shivers at shivers.store, or we also have a link off our website, and if you use the coupon code US for unapologetic swingers, you will receive 10% off your entire order. But really, everyone, just give them a try and let us know what you think.

Elle

For sure. Maybe I should try it. Great.

The Tramp

I got some.

Elle

We can make that happen. So, we have an ask me anything?

The Tramp

Yes, we do, Elle. So our great friends, the Mountain Foxes- Oh, they're so good. have, have written in, and I'm just gonna read this verbatim since last time I was told by our good friends that- That you left

Elle

some out?

The Tramp

That I left out part of their question. So- Tough problem. they say,"Hey there. Just about every time we are at the Scarlet Ranch, we'll hear some very vocal reactions behind the curtains or in the group play area, and it brings up a question for me regarding the proper etiquette."

Elle

If you're making the noise?

The Tramp

I believe so. Okay. They'll let me continue.

Elle

I will.

The Tramp

I have an overwhelming desire to, once the sex appears to be over, to give the appropriate applause.

Elle

Oh, of course.

The Tramp

The missus thinks this is a bit crass, and I think if they're that loud, they are wanting to be noticed, and frankly, appreciated for the effort. Once I explained my position about wanting to be noticed, she was warming up to the idea. Your most recent episode talked about how distracting the side conversations were, but this feels, you know, quantitatively different. What do we think?

Elle

Okay. He's not completely wrong. Because yes, there are a number of people who are very vocal. I mean, sometimes you kind of wonder,"Is that real?" But-

The Tramp

Yeah,

Elle

if there's a

little

The Tramp

bit

Elle

of performance in there. Right. They're just in the moment. Of course, they're in their moment. If they're behind a curtain, I don't know that they're trying to be out there.

Ariel

I always feel like a golf clap is appropriate.

Elle

That'd be fine, right? Not like hooting and hollering- Yeah. or anything like that. But a nice little appreciative-

Ariel

I, I, I do a very, yes, subtle golf clap.

The Tramp

I think I would do it as they come- Come out. come out. Yes. You know, it's, it's, it's not this big, boisterous drawing attention-

Elle

mm-hmm.

The Tramp

but, it allows them to feel, I guess, ig- acknowledged.

Elle

Maybe a slight bow in appreciation for-

Ariel

Or just- Job they get. simple, you know, that sounded really hot.

Elle

I

Ariel

agree with that. Oh, had a great time.

Elle

Yeah.

Ariel

And slightly envious, and now I'm about to head into where you were.

Elle

I'm gonna try to match.

Ariel

Cause I will say they're talking about just certain people being overly loud or dramatic sounding or whatever, but, I know from personal experience, I've been with a few women at the ranch where I was slightly shocked from the amount of vocalization and I, I did. I think as sometimes we do question whether or not, hmm, was that slightly performative?

Elle

Or am I just that damn good?

Ariel

Right. And after getting to know the women better, realize that, no, that's really- That's the- Is their level of excitement in the moments. And I mean, we should all just be happy that there are enough people in this world confident enough to just-

Elle

Let loose.

Ariel

let loose. And there's some science behind the more noise you are willing to allow out, the better your blood flow is to your pelvic area. So, you know, maybe go for it.

Elle

Oh, noted.

The Tramp

I think one thing that is pretty important is we are all a byproduct of our own unique environment. So, for example, some people have young children at home or maybe even worse, teenagers, let's just say- Of course. I love it. And the ranch is the place where they are allowed to be expressive.

Elle

Yes. Mm-hmm.

The Tramp

By the same token, there's some people who are naturally very quiet. Yeah. And that's okay too. I know with my partners, I really enjoy hearing them and them letting me plainly know how much they enjoy what I'm doing.

Elle

For me, it's been a process and I know I'm not as vocal as I would like to be yet, but I have gotten better at making noises or expressing how it's all making me feel or dirty talk or telling someone,"Why don't you come?" Dirty talk. You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. It's kind of learned. Some people maybe naturally, but not everybody. So some of us are a work in progress, man.

Ariel

Yeah. Well, I know that with one of my current partners, I am encouraged frequently to be louder or just let go more often. And I can tell frequently that it does enhance things- Right. It has

Elle

an effect.

Ariel

For me, but also very much for my partner-

Elle

Uh-huh.

Ariel

which then in turn, because I am a pleaser, just makes it even more. So there's a cycle happening, and then there's the addition of, I've tried to explain that I would love to dirty talk all the time, but damn it, if you're doing something too good, I'm probably not gonna be able to speak very coherently.

Elle

Speak in tongues?

Ariel

Yes. So you might get some noises, but- But there's gibberish. There may not be actual words that stop.

The Tramp

Well, from the guy's perspective, yes, if, if she's lost the ability to have, words that you can clearly understand, I, I would definitely take that as a compliment.

Ariel

Yeah.

Elle

Words to the wise.

The Tramp

Well, guys, thank you so much to everyone just for continuing to listen and send us the AMAs, which we truly enjoy and utilize on every episode.

Elle

And we're getting more and more, so yay, keep them coming.

The Tramp

Yes. Yeah. So if you would like to reach out to us with an AMA or just a question or just to say,"Hey guys, great job. We can be reached at unapologeticswingers@gmail.com." Our website is also unapologeticswingers.com. And the biggest ask that we have is wherever you happen to be listening, just leave us a quick review and let us know we're doing a good job. That is the best thank you that we can possibly receive.

Elle

Absolutely. Until next time, I'm Elle.

Ariel

I'm Ariel.

The Tramp

And I'm the tramp.

Elle

Be sexy.

The Tramp

Be confident.

Ariel

And be unapologetic.