Unapologetic Swingers: Epsiode 42 - Beyond Communication: Real Transparency in ENM

Ariel and the Tramp talk about communication vs transparency and why it quickly becomes critical at all levels in an ethically monogamous relationship.  

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Transcript

Ariel 0:04

Welcome back to Unapologetic Swingers. I'm Ariel.

Tramp 0:08

And I'm The Tramp. Everyone, thank you for coming on this journey with us as we explore the lifestyle. Truthfully, the highs and lows and everything in between. And with Ariel now being a co-host, which I am eternally thankful for, believe you me, we are not forgetting J and L as they create their new adventures out on the West Coast, and they will be back with us before you know it. There'll be a combination. They may do some interviews of their own, and we may do some, and then we'll also do some group interviews,

Ariel 0:49

yeah, we will continue to collaborate with them as they are incredible.

Tramp 0:53

Absolutely. And right now we're just really hammering out some of the technical details, because I really pride the podcast on how good it sounds and yeah, just that it doesn't sound like crap. So- I agree we're working out those finer details to keep up the quality that you guys not only have come to expect, but that you truthfully deserve.

Ariel 1:20

Yes. Our followers are pretty amazing people.

Tramp 1:22

Now, as you guys may have guessed with Ariel being a new co-host and in the last episode, in fact her mentioning her current poly dynamic. Over the last, I don't know, I wanna say six, eight months, I've found myself in a couple very similar circumstances, and for the most part, they were all wonderful. As I mentioned just a moment ago, there were definitely highs and lows but I found something truly special in Ariel. So we are now primary partners to each other. Yes. Absolutely. And she really brings a very unique dynamic to the podcast, and I am truthfully thankful that you have chosen to come on this journey with me.

Ariel 2:24

I appreciate that. A little background on that is that The Tramp and I, have known each other for over a year, not in any other way of capacity other than just continuing to circle back and spend hours talking at our favorite re- Local club, the Scarlet Ranch. And as my life freed up some time and space, I decided to act on what I had already felt, and it's been already an incredible journey.

Tramp 2:58

I have to agree. It's been nothing short of amazing, and you have really opened my eyes to a lot more of the possibilities. Yeah. Where just to be completely transparent I had an opportunity to go visit a very attractive and amazing lady this past weekend. And being new to this dynamic, there was a lot of fear. There was a lot of anticipation and anxiety, to be perfectly honest. Not while I was away per se, but coming back and with Ariel and I having our own reconnection- Mm-hmm after the weekend- that we really, I don't wanna say we had a come to Jesus per se, but really learning each other's style- Of communication.

Ariel 4:05

Yeah. I mean, I think as the Tramp has mentioned many times, this podcast seems to circle back to communication over and over again. And we are all a product of our past in whatever way that looks, past relationships, but both of us knowing each other for a long time, but not having worked on that level together other than the last few months, and really this being a new world for him, but also strangely a new world for me not knowing how I was going to feel being in a new primary relationship and allowing... that's actually a terrible way to say that, but encouraging him to have his own adventures and to have his own connections because as I do feel very compersive in nature, and I do want my partners to not hold themselves back, finding myself having feelings that I've never really experienced before. And when he came back, having to figure out what reconnecting looks for us.

Tramp 5:22

And to build on that, I know my own personal approach to life, and Ariel has put this to me very directly but very gently at the same time, is in a lot of ways I am a samurai. I will fall on the sword, if someone else feels that they've been hurt or wronged. And I'm not saying it's justified or unjustified. I, have done things, and I'm not perfect.

Ariel 5:51

Mm-hmm. As we all have.

Tramp 5:52

But more often than not, I'm gonna take responsibility and accountability even if it's not 100% my burden to bear.

Ariel 6:03

Yeah. And we've had some pretty serious talks about taking accountability but not taking responsibility for the whole situation. The samurai, as he falls on the sword quite frequently and just takes it all upon himself and it's not okay to just absolve everyone else involved. Because in general I think we all know everything in the lifestyle, everybody is involved in some way, fashion, or form. And you have to, yes, take accountability, but also know where you did mess up so that you can either change that behavior or maybe it was just that you and that person aren't truly compatible in that nature, and maybe there's things that they need to work on, and that it's not your responsibility.

Tramp 6:53

It's amazing how hindsight is always 20/20, and especially when, say there is a tense situation or some friction, that after some of those friction points have cooled down, you can look back with a little bit more clarity and- say, "Okay this was my part, and this was the other person's part." But really bringing it back to this weekend, one thing that caused me anxiety with Ariel is despite all of her constant reinforcement and encouragement, we're all byproducts of our own life experiences. And so I still held onto some of those deeply seated beliefs for example, being, completely transparent. Holding something back thinking, "Okay, this has the chance of hurting her feelings, and that's the last thing I want." Yeah. And that is a personal flaw of mine where I will do that, and then- It comes to light and the person is hurt even more, and then I feel like an absolute bigger piece of garbage.

Ariel 8:09

Yeah, that was definitely something that I don't know, a couple months ago in a situation we had come up, and I think I encouraged you greatly to be not just honest, because I don't know how many people out here believe in honesty versus transparency. I'm a true believer in honesty is if somebody asks you something, you're honest with them and you tell them. Transparency is being more forthcoming and just 'Hey, you know what? This is happening, and I wanted to let you know before it became an issue, before you even needed to ask.' That's something that I value in relationships, and that's something that I try to do in relationships, and so that's something that I definitely encouraged the Tramp to do and as we all do, we don't necessarily always take everybody's advice fully. And that's completely understandable. Sometimes we do have to learn things on our own, and it bit him in the butt a little bit, But you know what? It was a great learning experience, and something beautiful came back out of it, and we all learn something about ourselves in those situations. But speaking about transparency, it was very much because I am such a transparent person in my relationships, and I value communication and I value directness, and I've learned through trial and error or highs and lows, as you like to say, that I don't hold on to things that I'm feeling in the moment for very long anymore. I've learned that can cause a further spiral down those thoughts and feelings that come up in certain situations, and I've learned that the longer I hold on to them, the more I spiral and the more the feelings grow. And then you somehow turn it into your partner's issue versus your own feelings that you need to process. And so I was very transparent this weekend during some of my moments of, for lack of better terms, struggles and feelings that were arising. Even though I truly was encouraging and wanted him to be where he was and enjoying his time, I was still having feelings, and I did express that through Text. And he was amazing and immediately took that extra moment even though I felt guilty for having to pull him out of his present. And just, he was amazing at being able to reassure me in that moment so that I could get through those next day, those next hours, and self-regulate.

Tramp 11:09

I've heard a couple times that the poly dynamic is basically the lifestyle on extreme difficulty mode in terms of you're not only juggling your partner's feelings and emotions but you're also juggling it of other people. And it's given me a whole new appreciation- For sometimes how delicate these situations need to be. But you're absolutely right that the transparency is almost the next level of the communication, For example when we all first got into the lifestyle or we may have approached that with our partners or significant other, spouses, I guarantee that I was not alone that there was honestly an immense amount of fear. Because for most people, their biggest fear is to be rejected by someone they love.

Ariel 12:18

Absolutely. Yeah. I don't know if that ever goes away. I think that we can be 100% secure in a relationship, and there are going to be things that come up or situations that come up that bring up, no matter how healed we become, no matter the work we do, there's going to be fears that come up out of situations of, "Oh, shit, did I screw up? Is my partner starting to pull away? Am I doing something to cause my partner to pull away? Am I approaching this in a way that's going to cause them to be scared to be transparent with me?" And I think that was something that I've tried to express quite frequently re- recently that please know that no matter what I end up having feelings about, no matter how hurt I seem to be, no matter how upset I seem to be, I promise you, if you- are not transparent with me, as you said earlier, it actually ends up being worse.

Tramp 13:32

Yeah I agree. And as I mentioned before I've been on the dealing end of that, and Yeah, y- to see the hurt in someone else's eyes is horrible.

Ariel 13:43

Yeah. It's not a good feeling. No. And I think we've all been there when you really are just doing your best and you're trying so hard to not hurt or upset, quote-unquote, your partner for whatever reason, and then you inadvertently do unintentionally or whatever. Hopefully everyone's doing it unintentionally in this space. And you don't know what you don't know. And until it has happened, you don't always necessarily have the right framework to act on

Tramp 14:18

it. In our show prep here, You said something that really stuck with me. Despite our inherent fear, if someone rejects you for who you truly are, then they're not your person. Yeah. And it's easy to minimize that if you've been in a long-term marriage and you have kids or whatnot, but I'm thinking not just approaching the lifestyle. What if it's a kink? Yeah or, a certain, a sexual dynamic- Yeah that you crave and you've been suppressing and minimizing yourself and not being your authentic self?

Ariel 15:02

Yeah, I would, Speaking of that, I could actually give an example. I happen to like having my toes sucked. I would not say I'm into the foot fetish thing, but man, it feels good. I discovered it by accident, and now when I'm with a new partner, I jokingly bring it up hoping that it doesn't land wrong. And I've been very lucky that most of my partners that I've met are at least willing in some capacity to explore that. But I have had people just flat out tell me, "Yeah, no, that's never gonna happen." And- It's not something I need, it's just one more thing that I guess I feel like I'm giving my partner an insight to. And I think that there's probably a lot of people out there with those little quirks, and things that we like that maybe feel slightly taboo, or like maybe we're asking something that feels strange to our societal norms,

Tramp 16:17

I think that's honestly the perfect way to put it. And bouncing back to what I just said w- with fear and your partner- your partner should be the person that you trust the most in this world, at least in theory. Yeah. And you should be able to go to that person with anything and everything.

Ariel 16:40

Yeah, I agree. And- It's never fun to feel like you have to shrink yourself to be in a relationship.

Tramp 16:52

As we're exploring and finding our foundation and our core, what we've both quickly come to realize is that both of us are products of our own life experiences.

Ariel 17:13

Yeah and I would say life experiences in general, but very specifically our previous relationships-- Right before each other.

Tramp 17:21

For example, and I'm pulling from a real-life example that happened this afternoon

Ariel 17:27

Okay

Tramp 17:27

when I came back from my weekend, and Ariel and I reconnected. We were excited. We were just ready to go. And previously when I first got into the lifestyle, I was in a relationship where after we had an experience, my partner would shut down. She would distance and disconnect. And she would tell me, "I just need space." And I respected that space. Even though in my heart of hearts, all I wanted to do was have that reconnection.

Ariel 18:05

So circling back, was it that she was saying she needed space specifically? Giving you, "I need space. Give me the night. Let's talk tomorrow." Or was it something different?

Tramp 18:21

No, there was never a timeline put on it. It was just a blanket, "I need to be left alone."

Ariel 18:28

I need to process. Yes. I need to be in my own head for a while.

Tramp 18:33

Precisely. Precisely. And so when Ariel and I reconnected a couple hours ago at this point, and you said you, that you needed to process. Yes. That

Ariel 18:45

I was processing what I had experienced this weekend, which was new to me. I'm not a jealous person by nature. I'm more of a compulsive person with my partners, and I experienced quite a bit of jealousy this weekend. It was a very s- As I explained it earlier, I was holding two truths. I was jealous and wanted my partner here, and didn't want to think about my partner going out and exploring a new place, and sleeping in the same bed, and doing all the things. But on the other hand, I was like, "Oh, yeah, baby, please tell me about how good you fucked her," and all the fun, sexy things. So I was having a lot of struggles with wanting to know that he was having a great time, but also feeling nervous and scared, and having fear that he was going to develop a connection that would somehow take away from our connection. Disrupt. Yeah, disrupt. And that's the hard thing for me, is because I do logically know that every connection has its own unique, special thing, and that a new connection with a new partner Doesn't need or doesn't have to take away from what you already have with somebody else. But because of my learned past experiences with my previous relationships, that doesn't always settle well for me.

Tramp 20:29

And when Ariel said, "I just need to process," again, from my past experiences- that immediately broadcast to me that I need to give her space.

Ariel 20:41

And that was not- No what I

Tramp 20:45

needed. No not at all. And in fact we snuggled up for a bit, and then I think you just reached the end of your rope.

Ariel 20:54

I did. I am the type of person that when I say I'm processing, I am mentally and emotionally processing. I need my partner to lean in and be more curious. I need my partner to, for lack of better terms, come at me, show me in a physical and verbal way that, I need you right this minute, and I need to be reconnected with you physically and emotionally. And we just didn't know that about each other.

Tramp 21:27

Yeah, we had a very steep learning curve-

Ariel 21:30

Yeah

Tramp 21:31

for lack of better terms this afternoon. And it all turned out. We communicated. We- reconnected vigorously. Very well. But now I can adjust my behavior, and Ariel can adjust hers as well.

Ariel 21:49

Yeah. I know now the Tramp has a saying, "Tell me what you need. No, seriously, tell me what you need from me." And my learned behavior makes me feel like that's being selfish, and I'm having to learn that when he says that, he really means, "No, I really want to know what you need from me." That is going to actually make my life easier because I truly want to see you have everything you need and want.

Tramp 22:24

I think we find with our partners, there's a general recipe- Yes whether it's in the bedroom being intimate or just our day-to-day lives. But if you really think about it, you could have had a really tough day, let's just say at work. And when I ask you, "Babe, what do you need?" Your answer from Monday, Tuesday to Wednesday could be very different. Monday could be, I need to reconnect with you. I just need to be able to relax into your presence." I need that. Tuesday could be like, "I've had a hellacious day. I want to sit on the couch with a glass of wine and scroll TikTok for an hour to decompress."

Ariel 23:14

Wednes- With you next to me. With you next to me. Let's make that clear.

Tramp 23:18

And Wednesday could be something completely different. Yeah. So when I say that- Wednesday

Ariel 23:22

could be, "Take me out. I wanna go dancing. I need to blow off some steam." Something. Exactly. Yeah.

Tramp 23:29

So what I'm saying is kinda be curious. Yeah. Don't always assume with your partner and I realize I'm sounding very preachy here, but don't assume with your partner the answer's always the same.

Ariel 23:42

Yeah. And I would say, like you said, there is a recipe, but every recipe has variance, whether you're making it for two people or four people or six people, or maybe today you're making it for somebody who's gluten-free, and so you gotta switch something up. So while the basis of your partner or your person or the person you're with, however that is, can be very similar, and they probably have, let's just throw out a number, 10 different things that are always going to land correctly, you do have to be curious every day. And I think that in long-term relationships, we do, we fall into the complacency of stopping being curious, and I think that complacency leads to not great things. Comfort is one thing, comfort, and knowing your partner and being able to maybe be in tune with their day or in tune with their emotions, but we should always continue to be curious. And I think the Tramp and I are realizing that we are both such people pleasers and want to pleasure our partners, and not just in the physical sense, but in the emotional, caring sense, that we are both having to learn to bring a little selfishness into it occasionally, but it's not in a bad way.

Tramp 25:20

No, I think it's being able to finally relax and be able to accept. Yeah. Being able to receive- that's a good one knowing that I'm not doing it to try to get something out of you. I'm doing it because I genuinely want to.

Ariel 25:40

Yeah, and that's definitely something I think we've quite often continued to say to each other, "Oh, okay, that's another reprogramming we need to do. That's another reprogramming we need to do." It's happening quite frequently.

Tramp 25:58

And I'm sure our learning curve at this point is probably pretty steep. And that will flatten out with time, but truthfully, your connection, the deepening of your connection with your partner should never stop.

Ariel 26:15

Yeah.

Tramp 26:15

It should be a lifetime adventure.

Ariel 26:19

And I think I said something earlier that I kinda wanna bring into, is that getting into the lifestyle can put a spotlight, a floodlight on things that you didn't even realize that you were missing about your partner, that you weren't paying attention to due to maybe long-term complacency. And It's work. I think we all know, logically, a long-term relationship is work. It's not just, "Oh my God, I fell in love, and now we're just great, and we can just move on and keep doing our life." You literally have to spend time and effort into your partner and to continue to fill that glass in some way every day, every week. Be curious. Be excited to learn maybe new things that your partner is discovering about themselves.

Tramp 27:22

All I'm thinking about now is- we've been watching Ted Lasso, and- I think it's in the first season where he's like, "Be curious"-

Ariel 27:29

Yeah. Be curious

Tramp 27:30

cause, because people will underestimate you.

Ariel 27:33

Yeah. And I think for our listeners, I think probably a majority of people that get into the lifestyle learn really quickly, you have to communicate. We say that all the time. But your partner changes- to day, year to year. It's an evolution, and it's a journey.

Tramp 27:57

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Ariel 28:59

Yeah, I would love to hear some comments about other people's experiences. So speaking of sponsors, you hear it all the time. We talk about it constantly. It's where the Champ and I met originally. But the Scarlet Ranch, North America's premier upscale private lifestyle club. If you've been listening, you probably noticed our guests don't just talk about it, they live it. And once you walk through those doors, you'll see exactly why. Two bars to loosen you up, an incredible restaurant to set the mood, and downstairs let's just say open and private play spaces designed for whatever kind of night you're craving. Curious? You really should be. Visit scarletranch.com and let your next adventure begin.

Tramp 29:53

We have utilized both the public and private play spaces.

Ariel 29:58

Yes, we have. In fact, your weekend was spent with a very lovely person that we got to experience some of that wonderful play space there with.

Tramp 30:13

Yes, we did, and it was quite an amazing evening.

Ariel 30:18

I think that was your first experience seeing a not so soft, sweet side of me.

Tramp 30:27

To be completely transparent, speaking of- transparency the theme of this episode Ariel has the unique ability to flip a switch. Where you will go from this nice, sweet, very sexy woman to, I don't wanna say aggressive, but it's almost like you switch your mode.

Ariel 30:59

And-

Tramp 30:59

I just know what I want and you transform into this sexual dynamo. Whether it's, it's- I'll let you say that one. No you are. Whether it's with another woman or man. I've seen it happen with both. Yeah. You are very talented on being able to dance. And I've seen that switch, and let me tell you, if you ever get a chance to experience it, it is something to behold.

Ariel 31:30

It was his first experience seeing that from me truly because I am not that way with you. I am much softer and let you lead, which I very much enjoy. But outside of very intense personal relationships with people that I'm more just having fun with, for lack of better terms, not that I don't have connections with those people as well but I am pretty selective about the people that I let lead me versus the people I choose to lead. And with women, it's always going to be me taking the lead, and I think he enjoyed it.

Tramp 32:17

Yeah. You have, for lack of better terms, a undeniable presence. And it's very erotic and sexy to watch.

Ariel 32:28

I appreciate that. Thank you. You get a little bit of a switch too, But I think on that particular evening, you were, I don't wanna say shell-shocked, but you were along for the ride. And- I was because

Tramp 32:46

Without going into too many details- Yeah it was my very first, would you consider it a FMF? Because you, you- and this lovely gal experienced each other's-

Ariel 33:00

Maybe FFM.

Tramp 33:02

But-

Ariel 33:02

it all got sw- Yeah. It- It all got mixed up everything got mixed up. Don't get me wrong. The tramp was very much involved, as I wanted you to be. But just to be completely transparent as we come back to that, I have been bisexual my whole life. I love women. I don't necessarily desire deep relationships with women per se. I don't always find that the energy matches well enough in long term with other women. But sexually, oof. Man, yep. That is a thing that I really enjoy and very much seek out when I can. But it's part of my compulsive nature is that when I'm in that situation with a male partner, as I am now with the Tramp, I want him to be fully involved. I think and I hope that I do a good job at not ever allowing my partner in a situation, in a threesome, foursome, whatever you look at it as feel like they're being ignored or that they're just the side piece- Yeah, left out or, yeah.

Tramp 34:19

And we had an opportunity. It was a little bit later on in the evening. So as with many lifestyle clubs the play areas, they get busy. The three of us found ourselves on one of the open areas. And I don't know about you guys, but I am often distracted, whether it's people talking or, the couple on the bed next door just fucking away and being loud and sometimes a little obnoxious.

Ariel 34:50

I, I think that has a lot more to do with that it's hard to listen whenever you can tell it seems to be much per- more performative- Mm-hmm than it is organic. And I understand that there are people who are truly exhibitionists, and that's what gets them going. But when I'm at the Scarlet Ranch, part of what I enjoy is that it feels like real-life porn around me, but without the performance part.

Tramp 35:23

What I was gonna mention... in that particular scenario was, for me personally speaking, this is one of the few instances where I was just immersed in the experience, in the moment with Ariel and this very lovely woman. And it wasn't until the end that we realized how many people were standing around and watching.

Ariel 35:56

Politely and respectfully, not super close, which is probably why it was easy to not notice. I will say that. The ranch is very good about that. Would say none of us are really exhibitionists. No. But all of us thankfully were comfortable being in a place where people could see.

Tramp 36:17

But the one comment that I remember hearing from- outside of our little erotic world that we created was there was a distinct f- feminine voice that said, "I'm not even bi, but that is fucking hot." Oh, yeah. And I just kinda cataloged that away. Even though she was clearly talking about you and this wonderful woman. I still kinda took that as I'm like, "Yep, and I am mixed up in all that, and my life does not suck."

Ariel 36:52

I might have been in the middle of something where I did not hear that at all. But that's my nature. If I'm in a public setting, I don't mind at all. I logically know that people are watching. But once I'm there the whole rest of the world disappears for me. Yeah, it just fades

Tramp 37:14

away.

Ariel 37:14

Yeah. And I think that there are probably a lot of people in the lifestyle that's true for them. In fact I know it is, 'cause I've talked to other couples that have said, "I never thought I would play in a public space. Happened to be at night where that was the only available option, and I went down and took a chance and did it, and it ended up being pretty incredible." And yeah, if you're having a connection and there's chemistry and there's the sexiness of all of it, especially at The Scarlet Ranch, I don't know how much has been talked about how there is every body type, everything is there. And you don't feel judged. You feel accepted, and nobody is yucking anybody's yum, to take something from The Tramp's commentaries.

Tramp 38:09

That's something that I will commonly say for example, personally speaking, I have absolutely zero curiosity about male-to-male At all. I've... if you listen to some very old episodes, there was one instance that happened down at Desire, and it realistically just confirmed that yeah, I have absolutely zero inclination toward that. But if someone else does, that's okay.

Ariel 38:45

Yeah, we're not gonna yuck your yum. Yeah.

Tramp 38:48

And that's- it may not be my yum, but I'm not gonna yuck it.

Ariel 38:51

And things that maybe aren't your thing. But even when it's not your thing, you can appreciate watching and hearing or just knowing that people are truly being able to be their authentic selves. And then I feel like it's truly a space where you can explore some of those things that maybe you didn't even know you liked. It's where I discovered that I liked being flogged or that I really liked flogging people. I had no experience with that previously. And that's something that I discovered there because of the types of events that they put on, and they have their kink nights, which are sometimes pretty push boundaries and sometimes pretty, calm and safe. But they are very safe spaces there to explore those kind of things.

Tramp 39:46

That brings up a very good point where we did attend one of the kink nights. And explored. They have people come in and give tastings basically. Yes. Yeah. And one gentleman had an electro wand and a- Yeah A electricity play type setup. And it was quite the experience. I can't say it tickled my fancy, but I can say I tried it.

Ariel 40:12

It tickled my fancy a little. And I think that you said it doesn't necessarily do it for me, but if it does it for you, then sure, we can try it."

Tramp 40:22

Yeah, that's my compulsive nature.

Ariel 40:24

Yeah. And while I may ask for things sometimes that aren't my partner's yum, I also know that being in the lifestyle I have the freedom to not necessarily need my particular partner to do those things with me. Because if I really wanted them, I could probably find another willing partner, whether it's somebody that I'm just friends with, which is pretty much always the case, to explore something like that with. And I think that kind of comes down to the transparency. I see that this isn't something you necessarily want to explore a lot into. How would you feel if I was to seek out somebody else who was into that?

Tramp 41:14

I think that's the next level We always talk about the lifestyle more broadly should not, fill in a gap- in a relationship. And that is really expanding beyond that, if you think about it. Being secure enough in your relationship with your partner- with the person you love, realize, you know what? I cannot fulfill this specific need. But-

Ariel 41:41

Or want. It doesn't have to be a need.

Tramp 41:43

Sure. But by the same token, I am secure enough in us- Yes to not wanna deny them that. As we found honestly with a lot of newbies- Yeah insecurity is a huge detriment.

Ariel 42:02

Insecurity and comparison. Oh, my partner wants this, so I must be lacking- in some way. 'Cause I think insecurity leads to comparison, and comparison leads to insecurity. You- comparison

Tramp 42:19

is a thief of joy.

Ariel 42:20

Yeah. It is. And I think that no matter how many times we tell ourselves that, it still comes up. It still happens no matter how secure you are. And I think it really comes down to being transparent with your partner. That "Look, you're not lacking. I just know that this isn't something you necessarily are turned on by, and that's okay." We all have different things that we find hot, that we find sexually interesting. And we should never expect that one person in our lives is going to meet every single one of those desires

Tramp 43:03

Your partner should be able to fulfill 80 maybe 90%. You're right. Ultimately there's gonna be that little percentile and this is just my opinion- it's not gospel. But if Ariel were to come to me and say, "Hey Tramp I'm really missing this, and would it be okay if I found a way to get that fulfilled?" I would be perfectly okay with that.

Ariel 43:31

Yeah. I appreciate that, and I think that's a good foundation to build off of in general and in our lives. I think even outside of the lifestyle, we have relationship things that we're just not gonna meet for each other. Maybe for instance, I love photography. It's a hobby of mine. I like to do it. And would I love for The Tramp to wanna go out with me into the woods and say, "Just stand here while I take a bunch of photos"? Yeah, that would be awesome, but if he's "Eh, not really my thing, and I don't really wanna just stand around and carry your camera bag," I'd be like, "Okay, cool." But I might find somebody else who does wanna do that with me. Not saying that he wouldn't do that with me, 'cause I don't know. We haven't even really talked about it much.

Tramp 44:15

And it all comes back to communication, and maybe more importantly as we've discovered today, transparency.

Ariel 44:23

Transparency. Absolutely.

Tramp 44:26

Guys, thank you for listening in, and thank you so much, Ariel, for our first, your first one-on-one episode here. If you'd like to reach us, we can be reached at unapologeticswingers@gmail.com. Our website is also unapologeticswingers.com. And the biggest thing that we can possibly ask for, in addition to ask us anything email questions-

Ariel 44:55

Which will be back next time. Yes AMAs will be back

Tramp 44:59

is wherever you happen to be listening to us, please leave a review and a couple stars, or hopefully five stars. But it really gets the message out. This really is a labor of love, and- The bottom line is we love doing it

Ariel 45:19

Yeah, it's definitely a labor of love, as I've learned. Until next time, I'm Ariel.

Tramp 45:25

And I'm the Tramp.

Ariel 45:26

Be sexy-

Tramp 45:27

Be confident

Ariel 45:28

and be unapologetic