Anders Andersen: Wild Tales from the Jungles of Guyana ( Survival | Transformation | Conservation)

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In this episode of Adventure Diaries, host Chris Watson sits down with Anders Andersen, the founder of Wild Tales Inc., who shares his journey from Denmark to the unchartered jungles of Guyana. Known for leading transformative jungle survival expeditions, Anders provides an insider’s look into the unique adventures he facilitates, guiding participants through some of South America’s most remote and wildlife-rich areas.

As a pioneer of jungle survival courses, Anders trains adventurers in essential wilderness skills like fishing, foraging, and shelter-building. His courses culminate in an isolation phase where each participant is left alone in the jungle to test their abilities, confronting both nature and themselves. This experience, Anders says, teaches resilience, respect for the environment, and the mental strength to thrive in an unfamiliar world. His “Stop, Think, Organize, Plan” method helps survivalists manage the jungle’s challenges, emphasizing the importance of caution, planning, and respect for nature.

Throughout his expeditions, Anders works closely with Indigenous communities, integrating their knowledge, customs, and sustainable practices into each journey. He explains how these partnerships foster economic support for local villages, with tourism revenue directly benefiting communities. Anders’ approach to conservation tourism not only helps preserve the Amazon’s rich biodiversity but also ensures that every adventure positively impacts the environment and Indigenous cultures.

Key Highlights:

• Survival Training: Anders’ courses are intensive, guiding participants through skills like fishing, foraging, and shelter-building, ending with a challenging jungle isolation phase.
• Wild Encounters: From jaguars and black caimans to bullet ants and piranhas, Anders’ expeditions provide unmatched wildlife encounters, offering a true wilderness experience.
• Conservation and Community Impact: Wild Tales Inc. promotes ethical tourism by working with Indigenous communities, ensuring direct benefits and preserving traditional knowledge and natural resources.
• Reflection and Resilience: The isolation phase allows adventurers to face their fears, build resilience, and foster a deep connection to nature.

For anyone looking to experience a raw, unfiltered connection with nature, Anders’ Wild Tales expeditions offer the chance to test oneself, support local communities, and gain a profound respect for the Amazon’s wonders. This episode is a must-listen for thrill-seekers and nature enthusiasts alike.

Visit: Jungle Exploration and Adventures | The Wildtales Inc.
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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Remote Expeditions
• 0:32 Welcome to the Adventure Diaries Podcast
• 0:57 Meet Anders Andersson: From Denmark to Guyana
• 1:08 The Birth of Wild Tales Inc.
• 3:15 Anders' Early Life and Journey to South America
• 4:20 First Impressions of Guyana
• 7:11 Jungle Survival and Mentorship
• 12:17 Encounters with Wildlife
• 13:23 The Pain of a Bullet Ant Sting
• 16:53 Founding Wild Tales Inc.
• 18:01 Working with TV Productions
• 19:00 Collaborations and Expeditions
• 20:42 Close Encounters with Jaguars
• 22:42 Partnerships with Indigenous Communities
• 30:04 Surviving Alone in the Jungle
• 31:00 Essential Survival Gear
• 33:06 The Rule of STOP
• 35:22 Isolation Success Rates
• 38:27 Facing the Jungle at Night
• 40:29 Fishing and Foraging in the Jungle
• 50:27 Sustainable Adventure Tourism
• 51:03 Final Thoughts and Future Adventures

Transcript

 We, I run trips down to expeditions every year  into the starting point is one of the most remote corners of South America. When you get into the source of this Essequibo and then they did the actual river system is just have some of South America's biggest black Caymans, potentially some of the biggest Anacondas.

It was very remote, very uncharted. And I swear to God,  15 meters away from us, there's fresh prints. So a Jaguar has been coming, been seeing us mussing around. It's been smelling our fires. have been 15 meters away from us, sitting and watching us. 

Welcome to the Adventure Diaries podcast, where we share tales of adventure, connection, and exploration.

From the smallest of creators to the larger than life adventurers, we hope their stories inspire you to go create your own extraordinary adventures.  And now your host, Chris Watson.  

Welcome to another episode of the Adventure Diaries. Today, I'm joined by Anders Andersson. A man whose journey from Denmark to the deep jungles of Guyana has been fueled by a passion for nature and adventure. 

As the founder of the Wild Tales Inc, Anders leads some of the most comprehensive jungle expeditions and survival courses on the planet, including support for many TV and film production crews. These jungle expeditions offer up unique challenges to participants too, where people get to test themselves deep in the jungle.

After learning to fish, forage, build shelters, you get the opportunity to enter an isolation phase. Anders work goes beyond expeditions, guiding and teaching survival skills. It's his work with indigenous communities that stands out too. Ensuring that every adventure leaves a positive impact on both the environment and the people who call it home.

Experiencing the jungle under his guidance offers a transformative connection to nature. and his upcoming expeditions into unexplored areas and archaeological sites promise even more groundbreaking discoveries. This is a real eye opener of an episode and if anyone has watched Secret Amazon Into the Wild with Lucy Shepard,  then Anderson is the operations manager that facilitated that expedition.

This is epic, I'm sure you'll love it. So settle in and enjoy this fantastic conversation with Anders Andersen.  Anders Andersen, welcome to the Adventure Diaries. How are you? 

I am very good. I'm sitting here in Guyana. Rainy season has just started. We have had like an extended drought here. So despite all the mosquitoes and everything that's going to come very soon, we're feeling relieved down here right now.

Yeah, fantastic. Excited for this and the topic of conversation is everything Guyana, everything that you're doing with the Wild Tales, your company and all the survival stuff that I want to come into. So your expeditions, your trips. I'm so excited to get into this. All your stuff that you post on the socials are some fantastic stuff, you know, like out in the jungle fishing with hand lines and stuff.

So we'll come on to that. But  I suppose let's kind of roll back. Let's set some context about who Anders is, your early life. So Danish. So talk us through, what was your formative experiences and then build up into Guyana? So you're from Denmark, aren't you? 

Yeah, I am from Denmark. I am a Scandinavian to the bone, both visually and I think mentally as well.

I came to South America, like, 12 years ago, almost now, we're starting Venezuela and I was supposed with like an ex partner, we were supposed to do this bus that was traveling through the three countries of Guyana, like Suriname, French Guyana, British Guyana, then up the Amazon, this overland kind of truck.

It was very popular 10, 15 years ago in Venezuela, Chavez died. The president, everybody knows Hugo Chavez. He died and I was in Venezuela. And at this point here, I've been in Florida one time and then I only been in Europe. So I found myself in Venezuela. I couldn't really speak Spanish. I was afraid. I was nervous, man.

I thought like the whole, like everything was going to go completely crazy and civil war and stuff, but basically got out of the country, got into the Northern part of Brazil. And then I went straight into Guyana and came into the Rapanui, which is where I predominantly work now and just. Came into this Savannah surrounded by mountains covered in jungle, jungles everywhere, indigenous tribes, and was completely blown away.

I mean, like everything that we as growing up seeing David Attenborough seeing these adventure shows and people exploring the world, and suddenly it was just right in front of me. And I think from that point on, I started building up like my first tour agency and, and started creating my network here in Guyana, which of course met a lot of amazing people here in Guyana that helped me tremendously.

But from that point on, of course, this travel became a passion for me. I did like, I started doing a lot of work, various places in Guyana, went a little bit to Suriname. Kept on coming back to Guyana. Nothing could really compare to it. And then Guyana just became my second home. Then I really established myself.

I mean, like I have no formal background in the outdoor world. I'm educated in insurance and banking. I've been an account manager. I have been doing sales and all kinds of weird ways, but I mean, like always had a strong attachment to nature. My father is a forest engineer and stuff like that, but, but completely detached myself from it when I grew up and moved away from home and then.

When I came to Guyana, whether you want to have a relationship to nature or not, you will get it. Even in Georgetown, I was three weeks back, I was doing my morning run and a giant river otter was swimming in a channel right inside the capital here. I, when I come early in the morning, when I run up these channels, that is the layout of Georgetown, I have caimans that jump in the water.

So the caimans would be like two meters away from me when I'm doing my morning run and I shocked them and they're jumping in the water. So in Guyana. Nature is there in front of your doorstep, and you will go into nature to some extent even when you go out your door here in the capital, it's really so.

And then as it is with nature, when it really creeps in on you, you can't live without it suddenly, right? 

Yeah, that's fantastic. So how long have you been in Guyana then? Twelve years? I've been 

twelve years on and off, I normally say, because I had, I think, six years where I was here, for us. Then I had a break.

I was in Iceland being a glacier guide for a period. Then I was, I've been working in Africa a couple of times. I've been in the Republic of Congo. I've been in Ethiopia twice, been a humanitarian, working in conflict zones. And then in 2021, I came back to work with Lucy doing her mountain expedition. And this came in, in the way that I've been working with Ian, which you're probably going to speak about a couple of times today, but Ian was this British guy running Bushmasters UK down here, which was a world renowned provider of jungle survival courses, expeditions, and so on. 

Yeah, basically, when I came back, I could just feel I'd been away for like four years and I was just like, COVID, all of these things here, I've been sitting in an apartment, I've been doing all kinds of work. And the moment I came back to Guyana, I just felt like I stepped back into home. I was like, this is where I was supposed to be all the time.

Right?  

So yeah, you touched on Bushmasters. So. Because you went on a Bushmasters course, didn't you? Or did you, to do the survival stuff? I did, 

I did. This was where I met Lucy the first time. Me and Lucy. Lucy came of her own reasons. I think she already at this point started with her Arctic expeditions. She was doing like some TV work.

She was a camera operator, I believe, and stuff like that. And, um, I met Ian through a network down here and Ian was already, everybody who knows Ian would probably explain him as like a larger than life character. The man was a former SAS soldier. He was, he was not very tall, but he could really like his impression was massive on people.

So I met him down here in Guyana and Lucy met him through some network of hers. And we both ended up on this jungle survival course. And Lucy, I think Lucy was actually being tested a little bit by someone back at UK who wanted to see how outdoorsy she were and stuff like that. So she was being said like, if you want to do anything in the jungle, you have to go and work with Ian.

At this point here, I'd been trying to get Ian to work with me and Ian categorically told me, like, you are civilian. I will never work with you. You don't have what it takes.  Luckily enough, we got very well along. We had a lot of fun together and stuff like, but he was just like, I'm never going to work with you.

But eventually under one quite drunken night, Ian promised me I could come on one of these jungle survival courses. And I just, the following day, I think like seven o'clock in the morning, I was just back up at him and say like, when are we going to do the jungle survival course and stuff? And then he brought me in there. 

And then we met each other there on this jungle survival course. And what was quite fortunate was that for Lucy, she had this jungle experience that started shaping her life in the tropics. Right. Whatever she had done down here. And for me became the starting point where Ian realized that, yeah, okay.

This Danish guy here who for sure had no military experience, nothing like no background and stuff, but he got some passion that you probably can't find in many other people. And he was willing to stay here in Guyana, right?  So this jungle survival course was really what led us both into this world of working here in the Amazon jungle, the Guyanese shield.

And of course, Ian became one For me, became my, a kind of a mentor for a number of years, I was his assistant on the TV shows and expeditions and it became for Lucy a little bit like what was shaping whatever she could do later on with the Pinnacle Mountain, her expeditions there. And of course as well, like diversified her portfolio in not just being an expedition leader in the cold, but as well.

being capable of running in the other extremity, which is the tropics, right? And I think he did that for many people that he basically sparked and created an entry into the Amazon and made it approachable and understandable and comprehensible because running an expedition here is there are some basics that is the same when you are in the Arctic, but it is very specific here.

There's certain things you need to have in place to run it safely and effectively. 

How did you prepare for that first? Cause it all I assume you must have been wanting to impress Ian and not let yourself down. How did you prepare? So much. 

I had no idea, like, how to prepare. I had the wrong boots. So I had blisters everywhere.

I, my clothes got ripped. At the first night in the jungle, I lost my croc. Crocs are very famous in the jungle for being a really good afternoon and night footwear. I lost one croc. So I had like only one croc on the whole jungle survival course. And I remember this was quite funny because I was Biodiversity and the environment in itself is quite overwhelming, and I mean, all your senses are just buzzing.

If you like wildlife, if you like flora and fauna, it doesn't get better than the jungle. And I was so busy learning on one of our first forest trips, at one point I take my machete out of my sleeve to do something. And then I stopped it in the ground and didn't walk back to camp. And I remember me realizing my machete was gone and realizing what I've done.

Everybody who deals with anybody who'd been in the army knows that what you have of weaponry or what you have of tools, if you lose them, you're nothing but a sack of meat, like useless meat. But I managed to get over to Lilo, which I work with today, was his senior instructor back then. And it's my senior instructor today.

And my best colleague. One of my colleagues I've worked with since the beginning right here. And he basically snuck me out to get my machete. We found it again, got it back in my seat, then we got back.  But I think the thing about it with the jungle is there's some equipment wise things you need to prepare for, but ultimately how you get into the environment is something that is much more based on your passion for nature.

And one thing that many people do when they go into the jungle is that they probably come in a little bit afraid and reserved for the environment. And this has never been my approach to the jungle. I have been straight in on my knees, crawling around, jumping up and down and crawling in trees and stuff, and has been approaching it with much more curiosity and sometimes I've paid a price as well.

I mean, I've been stung and bitten by everything imaginable out there. But ultimately I have met it with much more like a child would meet any like challenges. You just get straight into it and you see what's going to happen. 

Inquisitive and curious. It's the best way to be. Otherwise, there's no point. I mean, if you're afraid of that, why would you put yourself there in the first place?

So what kind of encounters have you had with, because I can imagine fire ants, snakes, jaguars, anteaters? 

Yeah, well, encounters. I mean, like I've seen hundreds of giant anteaters, which by the way, you know, they can. One of the first years I was here, a Venezuelan man got killed in Suriname by a giant anteater.

They have massive claws to open these ants nests. And he had been cornering one with a young one, and it basically cut him up over, like, from his throat and cut up down over his torso and killed the man.  Now, giant anteaters are completely harmless, if you address them appropriately. But yeah, I've seen the jaguars.

I saw a jaguar in December, alone in the jungle, where I was sitting on a river sword on the other side. One afternoon I seen pumas, ocelots, of course anacondas, bushmasters, ferdorlands and everything. But compared to how many encounters I've had, when you talk about the things that I've felt on my body, I have been, of course, bitten by bullet ants and spiders and scorpions and so on.

But, but never anything lethal. I mean, there's a couple of things that I'm very afraid of, but they have not really come across me as yet. 

So what's it like being bitten by a bullet ant? Because that, I mean, that's like on the top end of the pain barrier, isn't it? It's the most painful things to be bitten by.

Yeah, there's this guy, uh, Coyote Johnson, who have made it into his thing, being bitten. 

Yes. 

So he has been, over the years I've been seeing his videos, and actually the bullet ant has been moved a little bit back on the pain scale. 

Okay. 

So I think it's, I think still it's on top 10. But there's like a, some centipedes, there is some tarantula wasp, Lucy got jacked by what is supposed to be, I think in top three, one of the tarantula wasp.

She got stung right under her eye when she was doing the Canuka Mountain Expedition. But it's intense. But now, people actually, I wouldn't say frequently. I had last year, I had two people being stung by bullet ants.  What really makes the difference is that it goes into, first you get your bite, then it goes into your lymphatic system, you get stiff in, so if you get bitten in your hand, then it will move up to your shoulder, and typically it stops there, sometime it moves further up into your torso, or in your foot, it moves up to where, like up in your, what you call your groin and so on, but there's a fever associated with this, and this fever here comes in various degrees, so When I got bitten the first time I got stung twice in my hand, I just went to bed and I slept it away.

Nine hours after I was okay. I had some nerve issues. Then I had a guest last year in June who got jacked. He was down for almost 24 hours with fever. He felt really terrible. And then I had another guy, a father who got jacked in his calf and he just carried on. I mean, like he just pushed through. He was there with his three small kids and his wife.

I don't know if there was any like pride involved with it or anything, but, but he just carried on. And it seems like with bullet ants, the people respond to it very individually. Yeah. The thing about it with Bulletin is that how it works, this formic acid they have, is that you can't take any painkiller.

Really? It basically goes in and triggers your nerve system in such a way that it goes into a kind of a spasm. So even if you were to, well, if you take like an opiate, which is the strongest potential, you get your hands on. If you're out there in a scenario doesn't really work, keep on being really painful.

Then on top of that, you would get the fever and stuff. You're very likely going to start vomiting if you start taking like a strong painkiller. Then there's like dissolved in paracetamol, that poprofen is probably not going to do you anything. And then you can go into lidocaine, but I've never heard a specific example of the lidocaine if it does it.

But someone told me one time that very likely you're still going to feel the pain. So 

that is what it is. Then you just need to suck up and get on with it. Part of the experience. 

But you know what, it has been like this traditional, kind of like a rite of passage, right? This is where we all know it, where they weave them into these gloves and stuff.

I guess over time, because you could be stung hundreds of times, and the pain would get worse and worse, but the danger to you would not get worse and worse. It would still be, if you had one bite of sting, or you had 20,  clearly the 20 stings would be much more painful. But the danger of you, of going into anaphylaxis, Or any of these other like associated things that could potentially kill you is the same.

Yeah,  well, all part of the experience. So. Winding back a little bit, when did you start up the Wild Tales? Is the Wild Tales Inc. being your company that runs some of these expeditions? 

I run everything through the Wild Tales. I started the Wild Tales in 2021. I had a company before for four or five years down here, and then I closed it off when I was off working in Africa.

And then in 2021, as Lucy's expedition was ongoing, I started up with Wild tails.  And then I got back into it. And the first year I didn't manage to run a single tour because I was just running TV productions.  So we were doing Naked and Afraid, we were doing like four episodes here in Guyana. Then I had a couple of other TV projects that unfortunately never materialized here.

But I was working full time on television. And then, yeah, that was 2022, 2023  in January I started, last year I started having my first trip. And there I started running survival courses back. Since Ian's passing, which was Just half a year into COVID, we ran the first jungle survival course there. And then basically tourism has been the staple of the Wild tales since last year.

Fantastic. So how does it come about that you're a TV fixer then for some of these big discovery channels, TV shows like Naked and Afraid? And have you worked with Ed Stafford and stuff as well, or? 

I actually worked with Ed Stafford twice. One time, years back. Well, it was not, it was with his wife, Laura Bingham, when they were doing Running Dead as a weeble.

So I was basically working with safety on the air. So I was sitting in town, being on standby, doing advice and stuff like that. And then I met it back then. And then I worked with him in 2022  when they did first man out in Manaus with Donnie dust.  So I was down there, well, not in Manaus, outside of Manaus.

And I was working over on Donnie's team, but before the show starts. And then after we all meet up and then towards the end, when they basically getting into the race zone, yeah. And there I, uh, I was working with Ed and of course the whole team he had out there filming and everything. It's a pretty cool show that they first went out there. 

Ah, that's brilliant. Yeah, I absolutely love that show. And Naked in a Fade is great as well. You touched on there about Laura, Laura Bingham. So I just done a chat with Ness Knight actually. So that's like the first episode of season two. And uh, Essequibo expedition. So her Laura and Pip Stewart. So is that what you were involved with to a degree?

Yes. So throughout this day from arrival until they left, what was the 72 days? And today I am working with the guys like Anthony Chouchou, following them all the way down from YY. I am, he's my main guy when I do YY expeditions. 

Oh wow. 

And now I work in YY myself. I run trips down the expeditions every year.

Yeah. 

So yeah, I was working there with Ness and Pip and they, and Laura, and I mean like that expedition in itself, 72 days on Essequibo river and Essequibo river is a really wild river. I, they really, really like true themselves at a wild adventure. And I have a quite intimate understanding of the river now.

And it is not only like massive sections of rapids. They were of course doing a lot of logistics. They had people coming and filming them and stuff getting into the starting point. It's one of the most remote corners of South America when you get into the source of the Essequibo. And then the actual river system is just have some of South America's biggest black caimans, potentially some of the biggest anacondas.

It was very remote, very uncharted. 

Yeah, that was a brilliant conversation. Some of this stuff that Ness was kind of sharing on that. You should listen to that. I think they had an account. I think it wasn't Ness or somewhere. I think it might have been Ness. She was saying she was in Hammock at night. And felt something in our backside underneath and not sure if it was maybe a jaguar or something kind of scoping out  the camp at night. 

I remember some talking about this. There's actually quite a lot of encounters of jaguars coming very close to people's hammocks.  And it could be a puma as well, right? You can't see that. Okay. Yeah. But here it's not. Infrequent that people have dogs sleeping under their hammocks that get taken by the jaguar.

Jaguars love to eat dogs. Being a dog in the jungle, by the way, is an absolutely terrible job because everything wants to eat you. Like caimans, jaguars, pumas and anacondas and so on. But yeah, so, and I've had stories about people where a tapir has been shocked and run into them while they were laying in the hammock.

This is like a, a 250 kilo animal running into you by accident.  So, uh, I wouldn't put past the jaguar that could have been walking up. I mean, it could have been, there's a lot of other stuff out there that is bigger than you think, but potentially, I think I heard some other stories as well that they, I don't know if she spoke about it, but they found some footprints like really close to camp.

This is something you don't see the jaguar very often. But I have had encounters where we have been waking up, a rain has been stopping, and then maybe an hour later, we start walking out of our camp spot to continue trekking.  And I swear to God, 15 meters away from us, there's fresh prints. So a jaguar has been coming, been seeing us, mussing around, been smelling our fires.

Have been 15 meters away from us sitting and watching us. And we are together with like indigenous guides, right? Who is expert hunters. They have like just so many extra senses and they haven't seen that the Jaguar has just been sitting and stalking us, getting up, walking away, and then we start our day.

Yeah, that's, that's, that's wild, absolutely wild. 

It's pretty cool isn't it? 

There's something about that I think quite alluring, so it's something quite attractive. I think more so, I think for me it would be the ants. I mean I've never been to the jungle in Guyana, I've been to the jungle. in Asia, but that's the kind of thing I think is quite attracting to the whole experience, more so than running into a handful of dangerous ants.

How does your work with the local communities come about? Because you mentioned the YY, what other groups do you work with, Anders? 

I work with basically everyone. I have people in almost all communities that I can reach out to. So Guyana is a little bit special because in Guyana the indigenous villages to much of an extent actually have a title line.

That means that they have an area that pretty much belong to them. They have the right over the resources. They have the right to use them. They have some rules and laws that are specifically made from them. They have their own council and so on. So, of course.  In the indigenous villages, you're gonna find the best jungle guides.

These people here are just out of this world. This is how it is in any country. There's indigenous people in the rain forest, or if you work with the Inuits in Greenland or whatever.  Here, you will always have to, especially if you're going through a indigenous land, or if you're going into an expedition, you will go through the village.

So you have to go in and get a consent with the village. And in many cases you have to make an agreement with tourism. There's like a pretty well developed model. I have my own one at Leeds. They, where you go in and basically sit down and have a business talk with them saying like, I'm bringing guests.

What kind of things can you guys provide? So you rent their boats, you pay a village fee, like a tax. You talk about if there is like every time you hire a guide or engine that they have to pay something extra to the village and so on, so, so there's a whole framework to make it as transparent as possible, and then of course, you work together in this like endeavor of doing tourism, right?

Which is the whole beauty of tourism in Guyana is that when I'm doing the jungle survival course, this is a very experienced community. They've been doing tourism for like 30 years. But even when I work with YY, where we had the first group in January running in there where we had to set up the whole system.

But we were working so closely with these deer communities in developing tourism. Using their resources, buying local food, whatever they can facilitate. We try to buy from them and so on. And then you create this local income at the same time. So these people who. It's the protections of the rainforest, but let's be honest, there is like a big resource.

Some of them can like, there's examples of communities done to sell out their trees, trying like sustainable mining, all of these things here. But you suddenly come with something that is preserving the forest and their traditions. I mean, like a visit to Guyana, you are. Well, I shouldn't be speaking poorly about any other initiatives, but here, if you come and you spend X amount of money going on an expedition, you're going to meet the beneficiaries of this money here.

But you paying, you're going to meet the guys who are being paid. You're going to meet the village who's going to benefit from this. You're gonna. See, we have had people who have been coming over the years who come many times, like returning guests who, who see how suddenly solar panels is being put up at the eco lodge.

We see like how they are getting extra boats. They are using these things from the tourism resources across the community. So suddenly the kids can use it when they have going to school, can use a school bus or whatever. So it's a pretty wholesome experience doing tourism down here and being part of that movement. 

That's fantastic. Have you ever had any challenges or struggles being a western white man in that part of the world? Any reservations from the groups or communities or has it been welcoming? 

No, indigenous communities not. Indigenous people are absolutely wonderful. They will call you out on your bullshit like right away.

They can feel if you are, if you don't come with the right intentions. They don't only have a sixth sense of the forest. They have a sixth sense of the people because it is a community based model is very based on trust. And having an instinct, whether people are doing the right thing or not. And trust me, I've done plenty of mistakes, had to learn along the way and so on.

But I would say sometimes some of the challenges that I've met have actually been more of the infrastructure. I mean, like many of the communities only recently have been starting to get internet. It can be things such as like a bridge breaking so you can't reach, trucks breaking down and stuff like that, but in between with the communities and so on, it has been a lot of trial and error and a lot of where we just have to sit down once in a while we have done some things where we made an agreement with the village council and then something that we had never expected went off, kicked off and then we just had to evaluate our model and then we had to try again. 

But I mean, yeah. Overall, being like a foreigner person in a country like Guyana, which is under this massive development, I think is keeping your ethical and moral values. The standard has to be kept a little bit higher because you have to as well, that not only will you leave an impression on the communities and zone, but your guests will see as well.

If you're not a good person, right? Because you will hear that like my guides, they all speak English. So if Anders is an idiot, the moment we have a glass of rum, I know those guys, they start moaning about something and they would be telling if I wasn't a good person.  Now, I mean, like luckily they're all my friends, right?

And we have good colleagues and stuff like that. But luckily we are in a world as well that when I doing something stupid, which I do, I mean, like I'm, I'm in no way perfect. They call me out as well. And I get told quite often, I get told if I've done something that wasn't working the right way, which I really appreciate as well.

That's good. Cause it's, it's the polar opposite of bottling up and intentions cause divisions and cause fractions and stuff, fractures. So that's a wonderful way to look at it. So. Talk us through what the Wild Tales offers. So survival courses, expeditions. Talk us through that and what type of people come and join you on your trips.

Yeah, 

I took over in the Wild Tales. We were so lucky that me and my old colleagues could continue. This jungle survival course, which was really like the core of Bushmasters UK. It was developed by Ian. Ian put in like this whole Western military way of building up like a really practical experience and so on.

And we were so fortunate we could take over this jungle survival course. And it is still a little bit the backbone of what we're doing and our philosophies. And the jungle survival course is probably one of the most comprehensive courses a civilian can get in the world. You ultimately take people who can be either fairly well experienced outdoor practitioners or have never started a fire, never done anything in the outdoor before, but you take them in and gradually, first you take them to a training base where they have very basic amenities, like a latrine, we have some buildings, wooden buildings you can do stuff in, and then you teach them the basics.

Then you bring them into an expedition phase. Where you get a little bit more and they try to learn to run an expedition camp. You're helping with everything here. Like making fire, fetching water, you're cleaning yourself, you're washing your own clothes, you're catching food and so on. And then, eventually, the last three days basically drop people off alone, right? 

So, they have a build kit, a little fire kit. A little fishing kit, bow and arrow, machete. Basically what's happening is that we get to this isolation phase where we give people the equipment we have been training them with. We of course taught them like how to build a shelter, how to catch a fish, put up traps, whatever.

And then we drop them off alone with a radio.  There's a couple of extra basic empties. We will have a safety camp, but we drop them off. It gives them a little safety brief. And the next three days you make the jungle your home. There will be no instructors there to ask. There'll be nobody to judge you.

You dropped off alone to survive, right? I mean, the experience, now I've done it a couple of times, it never changes, but the experience the moment the boat takes off and you're standing there alone in the jungle and you suddenly have to apply this thing here is a mind altering experience you will never forget.

See yourself the same way in nature again, because one thing is that you certainly will realize how challenging nature is when you both have to build and you have to fend for yourself and so on. But the appreciation of what nature can give you, if you put in a little bit of innovative thoughts, you apply perseverance.

And you as well remember to enjoy the challenge it is. It is probably the greatest experience I've ever had. Leaving people to have an experience as such. And seeing them succeed as well. That is pretty wild, yo.  

So they're left with what, essentially? Machete, a fire kit. What are they left with exactly?

Machete? Bow and arrow, fire kit, a fishing kit. And then we allow people to bring a little medical kit. And of course, if you want to bring your phones or film and stuff back in the days, and we can't do this anymore, but back in the days you had no torch. Well, today. People of course have a light on their phone and I want people to take pictures because I want people to share.

Back in the days, there was nothing. We took off people's watches as well. So you had no idea about the time of day. This was how I did it the first time. The second time as well. And then of course, now there's no reason for me to take off a person's watch because they got their phone, right? But when all this is said, besides the lack of understanding of time and you do have a little assisting light and so on, people still like, it's the same rules.

If you want to catch your food. You have to catch it yourself. If you want to have a shelter, you build it yourself and people, almost everyone, I've never had any serious accidents because people are quite naturally cautious when they are themselves. And people hurt people. I mean, like we, we're very good at like swinging a branch into each other and all of these things, but people do take very much care of themselves.

But. I rarely have someone who don't have a little bit of a bruise, right? You get a little bit of a scratch on your lower arm or you like something like the environment bites back a little bit to you, right?  It's pretty cool seeing them out there just having to apply everything practically as well. And without you as an instructor being there, right?

Yeah. Cause I love the show alone and I've actually had a chat with a couple of people from alone and they talk about They call it drop shock when they're left alone. Can you remember what that was like for you the first time that the boat disappeared? Yeah, 

we actually, we deal quite a bit with this thing here.

So we have a couple of rules clearly. The drop shock for a person that has to stay there for 30 or 60 days, I guess it's a little bit different because I mean, like, I have never stayed alone for more than seven days out there myself. So I have to be cautious with giving the impression that I've been there for longer, but we have a rule that we use and teach in our survival psychology class when we're doing it out there.

It's called the rule of stop and there's many forms of it, but basically it's a line of thought you have to go through. So it goes that first you sit down. Then you think, then you organize, and then you plan.  And before you act, you have to go through all the rules here. This one here can be applied to you when, if you're lost, it can be applied to you when you realize that you're in a survival situation, when you're dropped off in effective survival situation.

And of course it can be applied to some extent on the stressful events in your own life, right? When you're back in your normal city or whatever. So. The most important thing that I have learned on myself, and I have learned for especially my male guest. Because male guest has a very different approach than female guest has.

And that is,  That machete stay in that sheet for the first 30 minutes.  And I know when I have a type of guest that has the same type of reaction as me, we take out that machete and then we start beating that jungle right away with no thoughts. We just, Oh, I need this steak. I'm going to do this. And before you know it, you're spending so much energy doing things wrong.

So normally I tell guests, That if I hear that machete going off for the first 30 minutes, I'm going to sail back, I'm going to take the machete, and then they're going to get it back an hour later.  And that normally helps. So I think for this drop shock, because you're aware of you getting into it, and I understand completely what it is, but Don't become frantic.

Don't start reacting. Spend the first time, at least 30 minutes, an hour, maybe when you have to stay there even longer.  Spend the time thinking, assessing your environment, finding your resources, finding the right place to build your shelter. Doing every single thing before, it's the whole measure twice cut once, right?

That you will throw yourself into such a disadvantage when you're halfway through your shelter and you realize That this place here is going to flood or I have to move my materials 20 meters longer than I anticipated, but I have to do it a hundred times, right? So suddenly you will be giving yourself so much extra work and spending these very valuable calories you dropped off and so on, but I can completely, I know where it comes from and I know how I react to it myself.

If I don't stop myself. 

What's the success rate for people that go into that isolation phase? How many stick it out, roughly, compared to those that tap out? 

This is super interesting. I would say roughly about 70%. 

70%? 

But we have to dig a little bit further. 

70%? 

Yeah, 70 percent succeed. 

Oh, right. Fantastic.

Succeed the isolation. All right, 30 percent come out. It has to be said that There is a very significant difference in between male and female. Now, clearly over 90 percent is males coming on my course, which is a little bit of a shame because females statistically do much better than men. I have had in 10 years, I have had one female tapping out of isolation 10 years.

And I've had like over the time quite a considerable amount of females. 

Men 

is around the 70%. I've had one female she tapped out and this is it shouldn't be made like more fun of than it is But she tapped out because she went in in group isolation with another female and they ended up not getting very well  So it said this was not even because of her not being able.

I think she would have adored the environment You So I can almost say I've had one time a female coming out where, on every single course almost, I have a male or two or three males coming out, depending on the group size. Now the isolation phase is something that I try to make people understand, especially in advance.

Don't be afraid of it. First of all, the isolation, I have no expectations to anyone. The isolation is your time. As long as you go in there safe. It is something you create yourself. I would think neither more or less of you if you stay for three hours or you stay for three days. The only thing is that you go in there if you decide to go in there and then go in and then give it what you have and come out when you don't feel as comfortable anymore.

We are right there on the radio, right? So we just come out, this is your experience. And when you come down in camp, don't worry, we got food for you. You're going to sit around the fire with me in line and listening to our stories. We go and fish those days and stuff. So we're just having a nice time, right?

So it's an individual experience with no expectations to you. And you can even go as a group if you have a partner, but I do encourage everyone to try it out. And then if you come back the same day, you come back the same day, and if you stay all the days, that's great. But that's the only thing is that I encourage people to go, and if you don't want to, then stay back and camp with us, right?

But yeah. Sounds amazing. It is. It is. 

Without gossiping, what's the, what's the shortest period that someone stayed? 

One hour and 45 minutes.  

So, so I know, so I know I need to beat one hour, 45 minutes if I come out. 

One hour and 45 minutes  is a new undercut. And I know the guest, he has been back a couple of times.

He's an absolutely amazing guy. But this was a classical example that he was there for the survival course for the practical experiences. And even when he went in, he actually tried to find someone to partner up with. He was like a hyper social person. Really like chatty, really funny, really pleasant guy.

And he was very honest about that. He just didn't really think that it would be something for him to do alone. Unfortunately, everybody wants to go alone. So he went alone and then he came out and he came down to camp and then he was just sitting and having a nice time down there. So there's no harm in that.

But typically where people come out is when night falls day one or in the morning day two,  if people get beyond that point, they've shown. Yeah, okay, I can endure the night because when you're up and running during the day, time moves pretty fast. It's the night that is long because you can't move, can't do anything.

You're just laying in your shelter by your fire there. And what is really interesting is it kind of like a, it's an experiment on yourself, right? Because what happens to your mind? The moment you were laying there, you don't have internet. Now, some people do have movies on their phones and stuff like that and whatever, but you don't have anything to occupy your mind.

What happens to your mind when you're slightly sleep deprived, you're hungry, you're mildly dehydrated, you're tired. You're laying on a terrible bed that you built. It's your own fault. Your fire, the jungle gets colder than you anticipate during the nighttime. And you already are exhausted. Like your calories are burned out after one day, right?

So you feel cold. If your fire is not going, you almost. Anyone don't bring enough firewood for the first night. This is a really tough lesson when you don't have more firewood 2am in the morning. It's there you meet yourself in such an unfiltered and vulnerable state and out of your comfort zone that you will meet yourself in a way that you hardly can meet yourself like anywhere else. 

And this is where it really lies. The thing is not the jungle. The jungle is not out to get you. The jungle can provide everything you need if you're respectful and use it like in the right way.  But you will meet yourself in a way that the question is, do you like yourself being so vulnerable? And I think a lot of men, especially if we have to dig in, this is just my assumption and probably a reflection about myself as well.

But do you like when you see when you are struggling? And there's no one there to project it to, because I can find like everybody else. I can find enormously. Like if I'm out doing a track and you can see like, Oh, people are struggling. You give it a little bit extra. I mean, I'm the tour leader, right? If I'm out with someone who is way more fit than me, I'm so stubborn.

I keep on going  when I'm alone. There's nobody there to reflect my strength or my humor or anything. And it's just me. And that can be a little bit brutal as a man being confronted with yourself like that, right? I'm nothing. But a boy that looks like a man, like half of her, half or half, right? And I'm just laying there and there's nothing but a situation I got myself into.

There's nothing that can help me but myself and my mistakes and failures is just mine. And I think a lot of men have a hard time encountering themselves as such. 

That's fascinating. And it's a survival situation as well, isn't it? You're not just battling with your own thoughts. You're battling with the environment and trying to stay. 

It's so fascinating. How do people. Over the years, in terms of like subsistence, like food catching, fish or whatever, how successful are people at that?  

That's a good question. We have a rotational system. There's certain plant materials that we use that need time to regenerate. So we typically use an area for a period, then we leave it for a couple of years, then the palm leaves and stuff are regenerated.

So, so we need to do it sustainably from our end. But fishing and any like foraging in the jungle is a seasonal thing. Just like it has been back in the hunter gatherer day by us, right? But there's certain parts of the seasons, like when you're coming out of the rainy season, the fishing is much better than it is in the height of dry season, as an example, or in the height of rainy season where the fish is spawned inside the forest, run into the forest, and so on.

But typically people do, like, we have a lot of fish in the river system where we're using, so typically people catch a little piranhas. They catch small catfish and then once in a while, we have people catching a river monster. You are actually allowed to, we have an agreement with the village we're working with.

So you're allowed to hunt with your bow and arrow, not endangered animals. Don't shoot it like a howler monkey or something weird or an anaconda, a black caiman. But you're actually allowed, if you see like a big rodent, if you see like a, one of the big jungle birds, we have something called black Curaçao, which is the size of a turkey and stuff like that.

You're actually allowed to shoot it. You know, the only rule we have is if you really catch something big like that, please call us because we don't want any meat spoiling. Then we give the rest for the, like the guys, the indigenous guys. But over my 10 years, I've experienced twice someone shot something.

And 

this is like hundreds of people going through one person got a bird and one person got one of the big rodents.  These animals are hunted by the Tiago Ocelot. So I'm sorry to say a clumsy outsider with that just learned bow and arrow. The likeliness of you shooting anything but a fish is So insignificant that we can basically keep this.

If we had every single call, someone was shooting at a mammal, we would have to put in that you can't do it. But as of this right now, because people are so unsuccessful, we've been able to just say, and the village has been like, they have asked us how many animals have been killed and then Lionel I work with, he's my pushy from the village.

He's like, look, he's two animals in 10 years, these guys would go out for a birthday and go down the river. And then they would have as more than probably have been harvested under 25 years of survival cause. 

But all your videos, you put up your hand lines and the water, you're quite successful. I mean, you and your team.

Yeah. Some fantastic barbecues and stuff as well. It was brilliant. 

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We do it when we're out there on the trip, we do a fishing, of course, training from boat. You don't have that in isolation, right? So you, but we want people to get the adventure of it. And then it has to be said that Lionel as an example, I work with, he is a fisherman and a farmer on the side and a very competent bow and arrow shooter.

The man is good at everything. This is another story, but so we bring people out to have these experiences and there, of course, we have some of the fish and we put up real fish traps. For people to see how they're working and so on, so people can apply it themselves. The likeliness of you getting a fish that size in isolation is very small, right?

Because we can move to a, in a boat. We can move to a specific pool to give the experience of having like high intensity fishing. And then of course, when we go on expeditions, it's very different because there we go so remote. We go into places that maybe once every fifth or sixth year. Experiencing, having sane fishing, right?

We will be the only fishermen that has been fishing that the place maybe get fished once or twice a year. So we are just like dropping down and efficient. We're just pulling up these fishes and we're sitting and throwing them out again, right? Because we do it as a sport fishing experience as well. So we only take harvest what we need and the rest is going on, which is quite a funny experience.

I will tell you if you ever want to see an indigenous person sad. It is when you take out a hook and you drop the fish back in the water again.  You can just see there, just like, just like,  and I like, no, man, when we're doing tourism, we take what we need. I don't want you to overly. Yeah. You can, when you come back to your family, we can roast up some, you can bring for your family, but we're not on a commercial fishing trip.

We are on a tourism trip. We take what we need. The rest goes out and they understand it. But yeah, the fishing in Guyana is a paradise. I mean, like, We have the biggest freshwater fish in the world. They are a pima, which is a protected species. We never really catch it, but you can do it like here. But then we have almost every single type of the species from the deep Amazon.

We have vampire fish, the payara with the big teeth. We have peacock bass. We have lau lau, which is one of the biggest catfish in the world. We have freshwater stingrays, electric eel, like anything imaginable in these river systems. 

Do you eat the piranha? Is that an edible fish? Yeah. 

Oh, piranha is wonderful.

It's an amazing eating fish. And let's hope you're going to come and join the Jungle Survival cause you will very likely that is what you're going to get either a red bellied piranha or black piranha, the biggest flesh eating one in the 

world. 

I ate a lot of piranha. When I did my recent survival in December, I had nothing but piranha almost.

Wow. 

Got a little bit tired of these small 

piranhas. How do you get it out of the water with its teeth and its hook and stuff? Have you had any lost fingertips or? 

Eh, well, I got bitten in December, you know. After 10 years for the first time, I got bitten and it took There's actually a video on my Instagram where you can see I'm sitting and I broke one of my own rules because piranhas, for 99 percent of the cases, bite you when it's out of the water.

This is when you're getting out the hooks and so on. And I've always been very cautious myself, but I do have guests once in a while who get a bite. What often happens is when you're trying to get out the hook or you're trying to take the fish and so on, so. When you're fishing here, what I did was I had been wearing my boots for almost over 24 hours at this point here and I was going down to fish and I was like,  my feet is starting to feel a little bit funky now.

So I was taking off my boots. I walked down and we had like this, I had, well not we, I had a really muddy landing. And I was trying to pull up piranhas and this was great. And suddenly like a half decent size black piranha came up and the teeth is not very good at getting caught in the hook. So you keep tension, tension, tension, and you pull it up on land, but it doesn't stop there because you are on a bank with an angle.

So the fish typically get off and then start  going back into the water. I wasn't wearing my boots, which normally I step on the fish. It looks quite dramatic, but I basically just step on the fish. I wasn't wearing any boots. I couldn't do this. The piranha falls into one of my footprints. I put my hand down to basically grab it by the gills.

My finger slips in front of the mouth and it just takes a bite. It has like, imagine a scissor cutting through like meat, you know, it has like a special sound and it was a very, very clean cut, but it just like took the whole on the tip of my, of one of my fingers, not for it to be alive the same day.

Three hours later, I was collecting firewood and got stung by a black scorpion in a finger, like two fingers down. That day I was tired of the jungle. I actually went over to my shelter afterwards and was like, nah, I'm not going to do any more today.  But yeah, so we have a couple of times where people get bitten, but it's always when the fish is out of water.

Once in a while people get bitten in water, but it's very rare. While they over exaggerate it as well, they are, like, how they are, so the time you have to be cautious with red bellies, which is known to be going into this feeding frenzy, is when they are in bodies of water that is decreasing like a lake.

If you get in that water, they're gonna try biting you, but besides that, in the rivers and stuff like that, Maybe if you have a wound and stuff, but I don't think I've ever been bitten by a piranha in the water. 

I think TV likes to dramatise, doesn't it?  When it comes to these. 

Oh yeah, absolutely. 

Fantastic.

You're selling it to me and everyone else, hopefully, that's listening to this. Anders, it sounds like a fantastic environment and a fantastic setup. And it's very, very unique. There's not many people do the things and the fact that you're helping as a fixer for some of these big shows as well, it's wonderful.

I mean, normally I try to say that it's probably one of the most intimate encounters one can get of the Amazon rainforest. And it is very likely one of the most intimate encounters one can get of themself in nature. And of course I'm blessed because I work with a team of indigenous guides who is not only extremely experienced living in the forest, They are extremely experienced at running tourism.

We've been running TV shows together. We have a very like closely knitted team. Everybody speaks English here, right? If you don't speak Spanish, if you don't speak Portuguese. When I'm there, you can sit down with Lionel and then you can ask him how it was to grow up here. Everybody around here, you can just have like a real, like see people eye to eye.

And the way that we're working here is as well that, yeah, I'm an instructor myself, but Lionel is as well. And Damien we work with and so on. Everybody here is a team where we can go in. I bring all my stuff of modern survival. Lionel bring all his stuff of traditional survival and so on. Everybody can come to the table with what they have.

Yeah.  And again, this, not only this event was brought into our expeditions, it's brought into like meeting the people in the villages. Every single aspect of this journey here is just something that it's very well served for you here if you speak 

English. It's a wonderful model all around the fact the communities are so integrated into the expeditions.

The fact that you're kind of speaking to them about the business, their, you know, permission, they're using the funds from that to go back into their community. It's a wonderful framework. 

Yeah. Yeah. It is all very like, it's touching base on many of those like values of sustainability and stuff like that.

It's not something that I'm trying to necessarily sell it on because it is what it is, but the actual output.  of your money is going straight into these communities here and you're going to meet the beneficiaries and you're going to go out and have an adventure with them, which is going to be just as fun for them as it is for you.

I 

think that's what makes it beautiful because it's by proxy this. It's not like you're championing sustainable travel and this must be the way you can do it. Adventure sustainably. It's just, it seems to be like natural happening naturally by proxy, which is wonderful. Excellent.  So almost coming up on time.

This has been fantastic. And there's, I've got a couple of closing traditions on the show. One of which is a pay it forward suggestion for a charity where they cause any organization. And then I have a call to adventure. So the opportunity to suggest some adventurous activity, which can probably guess what it would be.

So what would you say is a recommendation for a pay it forward initiative?  

An adventure that people should go and experience. I wouldn't say a specific, I'm not going to say one of my own ones, but I think everybody owe themselves to go and visit the tropical rainforest.  Go and find someone who take you out to some of those places that is beyond what the classical tourist trips go in and meet the people living in this forest, learn from them and go in and just get lost in it because it's not that easy.

Literally speaking, but go in and completely pull the plug everything that you had ever been sitting and dreaming about meeting these indigenous people in the environment and stuff like that. It's true. I mean, like, it's probably different than you perceived it, but it's true. And go in and meet them and support them where they are, because the alternative today is use of natural resources, start doing gold mining, all of these things here.

travel in, support them. Don't just do it by giving them a donation and stuff like that. Go in and meet them and go in and make sure that they as well understand that there's people out there cheering on them and cheering on what they're doing for this Garden of Eden that we still have here on planet earth, right?

And it doesn't matter if it's South America or it's West Africa or it's Indonesia or where you go, just make sure you go there.  And then I'm going to promise you that it's going to change the way that you see nature forever. 

Fantastic. It's a double whammy. Get involved with the local communities, but also having that adventure experience as well. 

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. 

This has been wonderful. So where can people find out more about  Anders Andersson, the wild tales and all things Guyana? Yeah,  

well, I can say right away, there's not many people know about Anders  Andersson and Guyana. I know that for a fact.  Like I'm on all social media, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok.

If you go in and find the wild tales, you will very like there's apparently a Hollywood movie as well, a couple of years back called the wild tales. But if you go in and set the wild tales, Guyana, you've got to find me on all social medias. You can go in and read very heartfelt reviews on TripAdvisor about the like people who've been on expeditions and survival courses.

And then of course you can sign up for newsletter where we are putting once in a lifetime adventures, like wild, wild expeditions that has never been done before going to places. That is some of the most remote corners of South America looking for archeological sites and like old tribes and rare wildlife and everything.

I mean, you can follow some adventures. This was how you found me as well. Eventually, right. You can follow some very raw and unfiltered adventures and experiences. Right. Because we try to put it out as it is when you're out with 

us. So I totally recommend the newsletter. I'll get all those links and stuff publicized when the show is live on that topic.

Actually, do you have any other big adventures personally or for the world? Tell us anything that you've unrealized yet that you would love to do. 

Oh yeah. I got so many. I really, I got a whole drawer full of them, but I got two things right now. One is the Pachyrhima mountains of Pachyrhima mountain on the Guyana side.

I mean, like this place here is so. Explored. You wouldn't believe it. Now they're sending me pictures about like,  uh, satellites that is laying up. That's the big 

oo Yeah, the 

ooze basically. So satellites that is laying up in the mountains. That has been dropped down. I got the coordinates on, I found on a plane, wrecky.

I wanna explore the area for ecological sites, petro lives. And like now I'm opening up, I have an ongoing chat with a community living the closest community to Mount Rhim on the guy on the side. And then I got the Acai Mountains down at the. Basically, this most Southern tip a mountain chain down towards Brazil, where there is going to be petroglyphs and stuff, a couple of days traveling from YY.

And then there's the new river triangle, which is an area that is slightly disputed, but that area there is an area so large and so vast.  That if you wanted to hide in there as a remote tribe, you could do it. This area here is one of the least explored places of flat, lowland Amazon jungle left on the planet.

It is so wild and so remote and now I got access to it through a community and that place there is going to be so whoever want to go into places where no one else is going they just get in touch because I got like all the expeditions laying right here with logistics and everything. I'm just waiting for someone who want to go with 

me.

Fantastic. I'm sure when this goes live as well there'll be people signing up or reaching out. Oh, fantastic.  I've loved this Anders, this has been fantastic. You've got me excited about lots of things, so thank you. 

Yeah, you're gonna come man. Next time we're gonna be sitting and then we're gonna be recording this down at rock landing in the jungle.

You're gonna see an amazing sunset and the guys getting into the boats and we're gonna go and catch some snakes and some capers in the river. 

Absolutely, I can't wait, I can't wait. 

Thank you so much for having me, Chris. This was a pleasure. And thank you very much for giving me a little time to talk about what we're doing down here.

That really means a lot to us. You're 

welcome. Thank you.  

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode for the show notes and further information. Please visit adventurediaries. com slash podcast. And finally. We hope to have inspired you to take action and plan your next adventure, big or small, because sometimes we all need a little adventure to cleanse that bitter taste of life from the soul.

Until next time, have fun and keep paying it forward.