Alice Morrison: Exploring Africa’s Rich Culture from Morocco to the Gates of Timbuktu

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In this episode of Adventure Diaries, we’re joined by the remarkable Alice Morrison, Scottish adventurer, writer, and BBC presenter. From her childhood in Uganda to her current life in Morocco’s Atlas Mountains, Alice’s story is one of curiosity, resilience, and fearless exploration. We dive into her transformative experiences, from tackling the grueling Marathon des Sables and cycling 12,500 km from Cairo to Cape Town, to trekking across deserts and climbing mountains.

Alice shares how she immersed herself in Arabic culture, navigated challenges like near-death encounters with elephants, and developed a deep respect for Morocco’s rich traditions. She also discusses her upcoming BBC series, Arabian Adventures: Secrets of the Nabataeans, and her ambitious plans for a Saudi Arabian expedition. Along the way, Alice offers powerful insights on pursuing adventure, embracing cultural differences, and facing challenges with courage and humor.

This episode will inspire you to tackle the "niggling" goals in your life and embrace the unknown, whether it’s climbing a mountain, running a race, or simply stepping out of your comfort zone.

What You'll Learn in This Episode:

• The cultural and historical richness of Morocco and Timbuktu.
• How Alice overcame physical and mental limits in extreme adventures.
• The profound lessons learned from living among the Amazigh (Berber) community.
• Insights on respecting cultural differences and challenging personal biases.
• How to turn small steps into big adventures.

Notable Adventures Discussed:

• Marathon des Sables: Six marathons in six days across the Moroccan desert.
• Cycling Cairo to Cape Town: A 12,500-km race through diverse African landscapes.
• Exploring Timbuktu: Navigating the cultural and political challenges of this historic city.
• Alice’s journey into the heart of Morocco’s tannery craftsmanship.

Call to Action:

• Pay It Forward: Support Salve Uganda, an organization transforming the lives of street children through education and care.
• Call to Adventure: Pursue the one goal that’s been on your mind—don’t wait for the perfect time, start now!

Connect with Alice Morrison:

• Website: alicemorrison.co.uk
• Instagram: @AliceOutThere1
• Watch her new BBC series Arabian Adventures: Secrets of the Nabataeans in June 2024.

Tune in and let Alice Morrison’s incredible stories inspire your next adventure!

Chapters

• 0:00 Facing the Fear of Failure
• 0:14 A Nighttime Encounter in the Desert
• 0:38 Introducing Alice Morrison
• 2:47 Alice's Unique Upbringing
• 6:17 Immersing in Arabic Culture
• 8:51 Life in the Atlas Mountains
• 10:32 The Marathon des Sables Challenge
• 15:16 Cycling Across Africa
• 20:30 Dodging Elephants and Other Adventures
• 24:11 Planning a Saudi Arabian Expedition
• 24:21 Challenges of Modern Expeditions
• 25:26 Reflecting on the Arabian Adventure to Timbuktu
• 27:31 Cultural Richness and Struggles in Timbuktu
• 30:38 Moroccan Storytelling and Traditions
• 36:02 Living in the Atlas Mountains
• 40:09 Impact of the Earthquake
• 43:57 Future Adventures and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Chris Watson (00:00.817)
So that's us live now. So Alice Morrison, welcome to the Adventure Diaries. How are you?

alice (00:06.734)
very well thank you nice to be with you.

Chris Watson (00:08.689)
Excellent. Thank you very much for your time. Exciting speaking to someone all the way from the Atlas Mountains at the moment in Morocco.

alice (00:16.59)
right here look let me show you my view look at that come on you can't say fairer than this

Chris Watson (00:18.673)
Yeah, that's fantastic. Honestly, I'm so jealous. That is wonderful. Excellent. So hopefully the connection is kind to us all today, but we'll be a bit patient if it isn't. So thanks for joining. I think the topics in the frame for today is really Morocco, your adventures in Morocco, which you've got your book here.

alice (00:26.038)
I know.

Chris Watson (00:48.977)
And specifically I want to get into your journey to Timbuktu. I think it was at 2 ,000 mile journey, camels, donkeys, trains, all that good stuff. And your, I think your expedition across the, is it the Dra River if I'm pronouncing that right? Yeah, good, good. But maybe Alice, let's roll back a little bit for people that may not know you and a bit of context to.

alice (00:49.838)
Thank you.

alice (01:07.662)
Yes, you are.

Chris Watson (01:17.361)
Let us understand your background and how you came to be in Morocco. Because I think you had a very unique upbringing, didn't you, in Africa?

alice (01:26.446)
Well, I did, but although, you know, I think for I'm not sure how unique it is because as you know, Scots are in veteran travellers. I mean, they say I read a statistic once that at any time, 25 % of Scots will be outside the country, which is I do believe it as well, you know, so that's I think it's in the blood. So, yes, I was when I was six weeks old, my mother, who had never left Scotland before, and my dad, who had been in the Navy, so he had.

They got on a boat and they sailed to East Africa. Then we got on a train for another thousand miles and we ended up in Uganda in East Africa under the shadow of the mountains of the moon, the Ruanzoris. And I was brought up there for the first eight years. So yeah, it was a very unique, well, it was a beautiful childhood is what it was.

Chris Watson (02:14.833)
Do you have much memories of that, what it was like being a kid out in Uganda?

alice (02:20.078)
Yeah, I do have some. I mean, I left when I was eight, so not as many as I would like, but I do have memories. And I mean, I do think it's one of the reasons I've ended up living back in Morocco is I'm on the African continent, because, you know, once you've tasted mama Africa, you always come back. My memories are of freedom, of running around, of being in the mountains, of collecting tadpoles, of splashing in puddles, you know, all the stuff that kids knew.

So yeah, they are quite vivid.

Chris Watson (02:52.017)
Yeah, it's a massive departure from what it would be like splashing around Edinburgh or Glasgow for that matter. It's fantastic.

alice (03:00.334)
Yeah, I think that the big differences, because when we actually came back to Scotland for a while, we lived on the West Coast up in Benderloch near Oban. And I mean, the weather was different and the colour of the people was different and the languages were different and all of that stuff was different. But the actual freedom was the same because I think there was the biggest difference, my cat, for especially when you're growing up is between the town and the country. You know, and if you're in the country.

you've got all that latitude to do what you like, whereas if you're in a city, it's much more constrained.

Chris Watson (03:34.193)
Yeah, so did you get the travel bug then? Because I think, I know you went on to study Arabic, obviously you're in Morocco now, but so what was the timeline between getting into academia and then on your travels? And why did you pick up Arabic as a, in Turkish, as a subject?

alice (03:57.19)
Well, again, I mean, you know, again, I went to school in Scotland, so I left, I did my highers. So I was doing my as it was called then, I was doing my university applications when I was 16. Now, I'm sure there are many 16 year olds out there who think they know everything you don't you know nothing and I knew I knew nothing. So I was asking my parents for advice and I wanted to do English because I loved writing. And again, you know, life, I think what you're born to be if you're lucky enough to be free and able to do these things.

you do become, so I've become a writer, but I wanted to do English and my parents were like, no chance, don't do English. It'll be very hard to get a job afterwards. So I was like, okay, well, what do you think? I said, well, French and German, because I was really good at languages. And they were like, no, everybody does French. And I was like, God, okay. I was like, so I just, I literally went through all the options and I was like Arabic? And they were like, excellent idea, yes.

So I was really guided by them and I make a joke of it, but you know, it was the best advice I ever got in my whole life. It formed, it shaped my whole life and it's probably given me the greatest gifts in my life. So I am very grateful. So the lesson is, listen to your parents. Well, when you...

Chris Watson (05:11.128)
Yeah, not always. So what was your first taste of Arabic culture then? If you were studying, did you study, did you go abroad in placements or what?

alice (05:14.222)
Yeah, not always.

alice (05:25.55)
Well, my very first taste of Arabic culture was we lived in Qatar and Dubai. My parents were teaching, my dad was in the British Council and my mom was teaching and we lived there in the.

I'm going to say the late 70s, might have been the early 80s. No, late 70s, 80s. And then, so one of the very distinct memories I have is of going out to meet one of my mom's students who was a man and he was a Bedouin, he had an Arab heritage. So he was, we went out to meet his family in the desert. And I must've been 13 because the girl, the daughter was 13 and we were talking or kind of through interpreters and she was going to get married that week. And this was many years, this was like 40.

more than 40 years ago. And I just remember thinking, just being fascinated, we were sitting in a tent, we were eating with our hands this delicious sweet that's made out of apricots. My dad had been taken off by the men to see our host's camel. Our host had a hawk on his arm and I was meeting the women and the girls and we had the incense burning and we were given perfume and this girl was gonna be married. And I was thinking, she's gonna get married. my God, we're the same age.

And I think that's my very first very, very strong memory of Arabic culture, the hospitality, the kind of excitement of all these different things, the beauty of the desert, the fact that, you know, it was very, very hot and then the sun started to sink and you were suddenly comfortable and everything was beautiful. So, yeah, that was my first memory.

Chris Watson (06:57.285)
Wonderful. So, I mean, it must be a particularly tough language to pick up. How do you, how is it now, I suppose, like, you know, all these years later, are you fluent in it or? Because I know there's different dialects out there, isn't there, and different Berber languages and stuff as well. So how do you go?

alice (07:16.27)
Chris is a nightmare. What's even more of a nightmare is of course you meet so many thousands of Arabs who speak English better than you do. I mean I used to work in Arabic TV and I'd have my Arabic colleagues, obviously you know their Arabic was completely perfect, and then they'd quote Shakespeare to me in perfect English. It was very debilitating. I think you have to get used to being bad at things. But I'm very, very comfortable.

and I can speak in all the different countries because I learned standard Arabic, so I then just adapted. What it means is I'm a real, I'm like, you know, when people meet me, they must be like, my God, why is this woman talking? Because I'm probably a mixture between like a cockney and a Geordie, you know, broad spots, because I use all these different things. But what's nice to me is I do get I get mistaken for Arab. And that, of course, that's just a massive compliment.

Chris Watson (08:14.289)
What is it like? How long have you lived in the Atlas Mountains then? Or in that region?

alice (08:20.494)
Yeah, I've lived here for five years and since you've just seen the view, you can imagine why. It's just absolutely glorious. I love it.

Chris Watson (08:25.361)
Yeah, what's day to day life then like? Because are you the only Westerner that lives there or?

alice (08:33.198)
Well, I think I'm still the only Westerner that lives in my village. There's a Swiss lady a bit further up the mountain. But this is a centre for hiking. So this is a bit like Fort William for Ben Nevis, because we've got Mount Tupel here. So we get lots and lots and lots of foreigners coming through to hike. And I mean, so many of the local people, you know, my landlord's a guide, son's a guide, they're guides, they own little...

bed and breakfast. So that's one of the main areas of the economy here. So in a way, I mean, I'm quite, it's quite interesting. So we're a tiny trekking village. But, and I am, if you like the only foreigner that lives here, but I'm not exotic in any way. Now they've all got used to me. And it was great when I first came, I was a little bit of an interesting person. And now everyone's just got used to it. They're like, it's just Alice.

Chris Watson (09:29.745)
That's amazing, amazing. So tell us about then, so let's jump into, because I'm fascinated by how well you've immersed yourself in the culture there and let's say your book that you've kind of touched on at the start, well you've countless books actually and your BBC documentaries. I mean you certainly put yourself out there, don't you? I think reading that for the first time actually, it starts off with your journey into the.

alice (09:46.746)
Thank you.

Chris Watson (09:57.169)
Is it marathon de sables or disables? De sablé, which is... Yeah. So, listen, I like you Scottish. I struggle with English at the best of times and nobody can understand me when I do my day job day to day. So, but yeah. So talk us through that, cause you threw yourself right in at the deep end with that six marathons, six days across the desert in Morocco.

alice (10:00.878)
I don't feel like saying sable. Sable. Let's get your French out there.

alice (10:25.358)
Yes, I know. I mean, it's so great when you, I do think in life you either do things or you don't do them, you know, and I would, I would certainly encourage people to do rather than not do. And I mean, I have to say this to myself every morning when I don't want to get out of bed and do exercise, so I don't and I sit there and I eat chocolate and I get fat. No, Marathon des Sables, what happened was I was, I was looking for some kind of challenge and purpose.

Chris Watson (10:26.705)
Yeah.

alice (10:54.798)
I had a friend who lives in Morocco and I'd met him cycling here and he said, look, he runs a company here. And he said, come over, run the marathon de sample. Cause, and I said, well, I hate running. I've only ever done a half marathon. I'm not built for it. I, I never really get the flow. I'm always just lumbering along and feeling ungainly. and I don't enjoy it. You know, a lot of people love running and I'm like, I never feel that love. And he said, yes, but you've got a fantastic head for endurance.

And the reason he knew that was I'd cycled from Cairo to Cape Town. So I said, all right then. So I signed up for the marathon de Sable because Charlie Shepherd from Epic Travel told me to. And then I was absolutely terrified. And I signed up, I think in August and the race was in April. And I started off just training in the Peak District in Derbyshire where I was living, which was actually great training. And I mean, honestly, for that whole, what, nine month period, I was just, I was just worried because I thought,

never gonna do this. I've said I'm gonna do it. It's really expensive. I'm telling everyone I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna fail. Or it's gonna be, I didn't think I was gonna fail. I was like, I will do it or die. I was like, maybe you'll die. So I had a lot of every night, honestly, before I went to sleep, my last thought was, God, marathon de Sable. And when I woke up, my first thought was, God, marathon de Sable. But I moved to Morocco in the January, I thought, look, I want to make more of this than just.

a six -day running event. I want to make stories about it, I want to enjoy the lifestyle, I want to create something out of it. I wasn't sure what, but I knew that's what I wanted to do. I want to maybe write about it. So I moved to Morocco in January and 10 years later I'm still here and I moved literally with a suitcase, you know, and that was it. And I did the Marathon des Sables.

and I came 665th out of 1 ,100 people. So I was really proud of myself and it was an incredible experience. So, you know, and I didn't fail and I did train to as well. Well, I mean, I didn't train perfectly, but I did do a lot of training and I managed it. So it was all good in the end and it led me here. And I think, you know, if people think things happen for a reason, maybe they...

Chris Watson (13:00.049)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (13:14.993)
Yeah. Yeah.

alice (13:15.758)
I'm a bit like, maybe, but you know, those poor people in Gaza, I don't think that's happening to them for a reason. But I mean, if you say things happen for a reason, I believe, you know, what came out of the Marathon des Sables was so rich and especially it introduced me to Morocco as a place to live.

Chris Watson (13:21.841)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (13:31.217)
Yeah, and you're still here all those years later. I mean, it's a phenomenal feat to do that in such harsh conditions that, you know, reading it, you can see the toil, you can feel the emotion as you're going through it. And I think the, the, don't take this the wrong way, like the pigheaded determinist, determined at the end of it, like, I will, I will get over this. And I think you've got your arm round, you meet someone, don't you?

alice (13:45.934)
Thank you.

Chris Watson (13:57.521)
the kind of final stages and someone's almost catching up with you and you still get there and I think it's a French person and you beat them to the end.

alice (14:05.55)
Yes! Well this is a very Scottish story. So the long stage in the Marathon des Sables is 82 kilometres. It's basically 52 miles or 80 kilometres, 52 miles all in one go, double marathon. So if you're a normal person like me you're going to go through the night. So it's the middle of the night, my head torch is rubbish, I can't see anything and I keep bumping into sand dunes and then like out of the darkness comes this bright white light.

and it's John Calhoun in his kilt. In that kilt. I was like, right. So I said, look, can we team up? Because I can't see anything. And you know, if you want the company. And he was like, yes, I want the company. So we spend the rest of that night together talking about politics and life and Scotland and running and just adventure. We, you know, you're walking through the night because we're walking at that stage. You're walking through the night. The stars are above you. No one else around.

the sounds of the desert and then the dawn breaks and you're still going and as the dawn broke and we could see the finish line about two and a half kilometers away this bloomin' Frenchman was running to catch us up and honestly it's hilarious, me and John we're broken we're like we're staggering along like ancient ancient mariners and we're like we look at each other go right he's not gonna catch us and John gathers up his kilt and we start sprinting to the finish.

And it really was a moment of shared national pride when we beat them.

Chris Watson (15:34.673)
Yeah.

That is fantastic, that is so Scottish. So is that the hardest thing you've done? How does that compare to like Timbuktu and the Dra River? Or what?

alice (15:50.286)
Yeah, what's the hardest thing I've done? Probably, well, in a short look cycling across Africa was very, very, very hard because it was also longer. Marathon de Sable was only six days, but by the I mean, but I was broken by the end of it, my feet, I didn't walk for a week. So yeah, I think in terms of physical just day after day endurance, get your head in it, you know, more pain than pleasure. I think MDS was

Chris Watson (16:07.953)
Yeah.

alice (16:18.99)
definitely up there, but I did then sign up to run around Everest. And I can't help but feel... So Marathon Miss Barbara broke me in terms of my feet were just destroyed and we had to do this double marathon. So that was really difficult. But Everest, honestly, one day we had to do something like two and a half Ben Nevis's worth of climbing in one day. We're at altitude, we're about 3000 meters altitude.

Chris Watson (16:27.505)
Wow.

alice (16:46.606)
which is two bed nevices already. And it was just so difficult. And with Marathon des Sables, there were really generous cutoff times and I knew I could make it as long as I kept going. With Everest, I had time pressure. So I always felt that I might not make it in time to beat the clock. So they have their different parts. Every adventure has its traumas.

Chris Watson (17:14.097)
You seem to do a lot of type 2 type adventures. What was your breakthrough adventure then? What was the kind of first big expedition? Was it the African one then? Yeah.

alice (17:27.246)
I think that was definitely, I mean, before that, and again, I would say to anyone who's listening who wants to know about Breaking Into Adventure, when I was on my, like, I had normal jobs, you know, normal holidays, normal weekends, and I used to, I didn't even know I was doing it actually, but every single holiday I would book to go cycling in Cuba or hiking in the Atacama or, and I longed for that part of me that wasn't being fulfilled by my job, which was the outdoors and...

I'm not very sporty and I'm not physically in any way talented. So I was often the slowest or certainly one of the slowest. But that was OK. And that's quite hard if you're quite type A personality. It's quite hard to be at the end. But that's what it was. But I still wanted that feeling of being outdoors, of going on a physical journey. I love getting from A to B under my own, with my own sweat, blood, tears, broken bones, whatever.

So my first breakthrough was definitely the Tour de Freak, which was cycling from Cairo to Cape Town because, you know, that's the longest I'd done before that was like a month, three weeks, which was a holiday and it was hiking and biking and you're getting transported, etc. So, yeah, that was my breakthrough.

Chris Watson (18:41.265)
Yeah, how long did that take? So Cairo to Cape Town, that's, I mean, that's, how did you? Yeah, wow.

alice (18:44.99)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 12 ,500 kilometers and it took 100 riding days and 20 rest days.

Chris Watson (18:54.929)
And how was that broken up then, Alice? Was it consecutive days or did you take the rest days in sections or?

alice (19:02.99)
Well, no, it was actually a race. So it's the longest bike race in the world, three times longer than the Tour de France. So it was organized, you know, the organizers, you had a stage a day. And I think typically, I think the longest we, I think, I can't quite remember, but I think the longest we did without a break was eight days, and then we had two days off. So yeah, break days, the thing about rest days, you looked forward to them like,

Chris Watson (19:06.961)
All right.

alice (19:32.79)
You know, they were just paradise. They were like your paradise at the end of the ride. And you'd have them. And then the night of the rest day when you had to get back on the bike in the morning were absolutely dreadful because you were trying to enjoy your time and not on the bike, but you knew you had to get back on the bike at six o 'clock the next morning. And that was horrible really. It was a terrible thing.

Chris Watson (19:37.745)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (19:56.273)
Yeah. What was your thinking that, you know, from a geographic standpoint, what was your route like then? Did you come down the East coast of Africa or were you through the interior? How did that?

alice (20:09.006)
Now to know that we started on the east and then crossed to the west. So at that time we went through Egypt, Sudan,

Chris Watson (20:12.625)
Yeah.

alice (20:19.086)
Sudan into Ethiopia, Ethiopia into Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Zambia, Botswana, South Africa. So we kind of went like that. Yeah. Yeah, actually.

Chris Watson (20:30.097)
Yeah, yeah, an L shape. Yeah, okay, yeah. fantastic. What's your memories like then coming through those countries? How different were they to you? In fact, did you have much time? Or were you just, because you were on a race, really?

alice (20:44.782)
Well, first of all, I'd like to recommend that anyone who'd like to know more reads my book Dodging Elephants, clues in the titles, spoiler alert, I dodged. Each country was very different. You know, I love languages, so I'd learn the slightly different languages, at least 10 or 20 words of each country. The people are different. You know, the Sudanese people, for example, the kindest, most beautiful people of the whole trip.

Chris Watson (20:49.873)
Yeah.

alice (21:13.326)
Ethiopian children, bloody nightmare. They threw stones at us, they beat us with whips, they dragged people off their bikes. It was really horrible. So we had lots of different experiences with the people, countryside completely varied, you know, from desert to the, I mean, Ethiopia highlands are one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen, ever. These huge mountains, golden lights, people still living a life that looks like it could have come straight out of the Bible.

Chris Watson (21:21.201)
Really? Wow.

alice (21:43.118)
So everywhere was different. There was wildlife in Botswana, obviously, and Zambia, dodging elephants, I'll just say it again. But from the bike, you're cycling past giraffes, it's quite extraordinary. But yeah, we were in a race, but I mean, I, you know, I wasn't racing as such. I mean, you did do some days, but I was just trying to get to survive it and to get to the end of the day. So you do see a lot, but you do see it in a different way. You know, you pass people on the road, but you're not.

taking time to sightsee or taking time to even really to chat a lot to people or to get to know them. You're really, you are on a journey. It's quite a continuous thing.

Chris Watson (22:24.241)
cycling past your afts and what happened with the elephant without giving the story of your book away? Did you get charged or something or chased or? Yeah.

alice (22:32.782)
No, I did get charged. And I did think I was going to die. And basically, elephants are... I'm frightened of elephants because, you know, because I lived, I was brought up in Africa. So we had stories of people being trampled and killed by elephants every week. So I was very cautious and I stopped by the side of the road because we got... Because you're kind of like in a long string of riders. There were 63 racers.

Chris Watson (22:38.129)
based.

alice (23:01.518)
So kind of this like a bush telegraph and things get kind of passed up and down. We heard there were elephants in the bush. So I was like, well, I'll just stop. You know, I'm not, I'm scared of elephants. I'm not stupid. And then I stopped, put some sun tan cream on and was just hanging out on my bike and out of the bush. Well, I don't know, 10 meters away, a bull elephant charged me. Yeah. So I did think I was going to die. I didn't. You have to read the book to find out the rest.

Chris Watson (23:28.977)
Yeah, I know. And I haven't read, I've read the other one, so I'll do that afterwards. Fantastic. Well, yeah, scary, but that's, what an experience. Yeah.

alice (23:40.846)
Yeah, it was it wasn't a good, I mean, it wasn't a good experience. It was a good experience in that nothing happened and I was fine. But it wasn't a good experience in that I really, I honestly did think it you know, that it was a very terrifying experience. And the I mean, the only reason, yeah, I basically flung my bike around and started pedaling and started thinking about what to do. And like it was the elephant was so close, I could feel the ground shaking from his heaviness. And then basically, once he'd

chased me off, that was all he wanted to do, so he stopped. Yeah, but it was very, very frightening. And the thing was as well, afterwards I had so much adrenaline in my blood that it probably affected me for a good two or two days or something. I felt really weird. I don't think I've ever been so quiet.

Chris Watson (24:32.017)
Yeah. What country was that in? Was that in Botswana? Or?

alice (24:35.822)
was in now. It was on the border with Botswana. I think I might still have been in Zambia. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, you know, nothing. It's like all these things. It's like you get scared and then nothing happens and you crack on.

Chris Watson (24:41.905)
Yeah, so you still have a fair way to go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Christ.

Chris Watson (24:53.329)
Yeah, I don't, have you heard the story of the hardest geezer recently and he's just kind of run the length of African some of this. Yeah. Yeah, some of the stuff that happened to him though, being kidnapped and taken into the bush, you know, seven hours in the back of a motorbike and having to be rescued and stuff. It's like, it's, yeah, these are crazy, crazy stories.

alice (24:57.806)
Yes! that was amazing! What a fantastic accomplishment! Really brilliant!

alice (25:16.398)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, he's a very brave, yeah, very brave man. I know he raised thousands of pounds for charity as well. So good guy and well done to him. I love hearing those stories, you know, people who do things as extraordinary as that are just, you just think, God, that's really great. There's still people in the world who really do amazing stuff and he's one of them, that's for sure.

Chris Watson (25:27.025)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (25:39.825)
Yeah, amazing, amazing. So after Tour de Afrique, de Afrique, my pronunciation is terrible. So you done a trek across the atlas as well to the Dantique, didn't you, as well as into Timbuktu. So what order did that come in? Was that a gradual build up?

alice (25:47.022)
Bells up.

Thanks.

alice (26:01.422)
So, Toot a Freak, Marathon de Sable, Atlas to Atlantic, Everest, no, Morocco to Timbuktu, Everest.

and then the three, the Dra, the Sahara and the Atlas, which went together as one whole cross -cross work on Sahara. And then most recently Jordan, north to south, and then the largest volcano in the world in Uganda. And rest.

Chris Watson (26:31.601)
so you're still hard at the adventure then, no signs of stopping.

alice (26:38.99)
Well, the thing is, yes, that's actually a really good question. It's one that I torture myself with constantly. Because at the moment I'm trying to, so I've just finished filming a new BBC series, which will be out in June. So yeah, so doing that, that will be on the BBC News channel and on iPlayer. So keep your eyes kind of just occasionally do a search. It should be out the first weekend and second weekend of June. I've been doing that this year. And then I've also been doing reconnaissance trips because,

Chris Watson (26:51.569)
fantastic! Yeah.

Chris Watson (26:59.697)
Excellent. Yeah, excellent.

alice (27:07.95)
I would like to do a big expedition in Saudi Arabia. And I think because we're on the adventure diaries, you can talk about this a little bit. You know, trying to get some of these bigger, more complicated expeditions arranged is just a huge undertaking. You know, you'd think, wouldn't you, that if you wanted to, you could just crack on and walk across somewhere, hire a couple of cowboys. Life is not like that anymore. Anywhere, you know, permissions are needed or you get stopped.

Chris Watson (27:15.409)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (27:28.593)
Yeah.

alice (27:37.23)
You need provisioning because all the wells have dried up because people use their four by fours. They don't use camels anymore. There's all sorts of things going on. So, I mean, I could do something and I do wonder about this. Like if I'd wanted to, I could have cycled across Saudi on my own. No problem. You know, that's perfectly doable. But because I want to walk across the wilderness and explore and try and discover new stuff and do it with camels like the traditional way, it is becoming a huge undertaking. So that's what I'm trying to get going at the moment.

Chris Watson (27:39.889)
Yeah.

alice (28:06.318)
I've given myself a kind of cutoff point, because I've been working at it for two years, to see, I think, if it's not going to work, then I think what I'll do is at the latter part of the year, I will go over and do different adventures, like go walking in the southern mountains, do a bit cross across one of the game parks, you know, and do kind of do what I can without needing all of the bureaucratic and financial and...

et cetera, et cetera, permissions. So I think that is one of the realities about the life I'm leading is there are some things take a long time and then some things you just feel like you're honestly, you feel like you're sinking sand the whole time. The more you progress, the more you go down, but I'm hoping to make it happen. And that's what I'm working towards.

Chris Watson (28:55.089)
Fantastic. Yeah, good luck. That sounds really exciting actually. So keep our eyes peeled for that. On that, it's kind of made me think about the, so I watched your documentary, The Arabian Adventure to Timbuktu, the two part, that was brilliant. I think, did you have some, did you have any sort of political challenges on that? Cause I know that, I know you had, when you approached Timbuktu near the end of it, there was challenges with borders and stuff and access and stuff. How did,

alice (28:57.998)
Thank you.

alice (29:02.35)
Yeah.

alice (29:09.966)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (29:25.009)
You manage that expedition end to end. Was that fraught with challenges in terms of plotting that out?

alice (29:33.134)
Well, again, there's a very big Scottish connection because I did that series with a company called Turn TV, who are based in Glasgow. And so they actually it was their responsibility to do all the planning and the logistics.

Chris Watson (29:47.633)
Yeah.

alice (29:48.078)
wish I could do that again. So they took care of that, but there were some very serious issues. I mean, that was not a hard physical expedition because we were using trains, shared taxis, camels. And then when we got to Timbuktu, the only way we could actually get into Timbuktu was with the United Nations flight. So we had to get on an aid flight because the situation in Timbuktu at that time, and I think it still continues, is that Al -Qaeda had invaded.

and taken the city over and then they were repelled by the United Nations and by the French. And so there was still a very big United Nations peacekeeping force protecting Timbuktu from reinvasion. And one of the things that I found really poignant, I think is the best word, in Timbuktu was that the loveliest people, I mean, they're peace loving, they're famous for their music, they've got these incredible historical mosques.

but it's like a sleepy, dusty town kind of forgotten by time where, you know, the biggest vehicle is a three horse, a three donkey cart. So if you're really like down with the kids, you have three donkeys to pull your cart. And they were just, it was really a beautiful experience being there. And those people are beautiful, fabulous people, but they're living in terror of being reinvaded by Al -Qaeda. And when Al -Qaeda invaded them, I mean, bear in mind that Timbuktuans are Muslim, all of them, they're all Muslim.

Chris Watson (30:53.745)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (31:12.721)
Mm -hmm.

alice (31:13.678)
So, but when Al -Qaeda invaded them, they used to beat women in the streets for not wearing a thick enough veil, which is against their own culture. And it's also against Islam, by the way, just to let you know. So these are, you know, those kinds of things, women were forced into marriages with soldiers that they didn't want to marry. I mean, it's basically, that's basically just rape. Let's call it what it is. So, you know, they were forbidden for playing music. Timbuktu is famous one of the main...

Chris Watson (31:21.809)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (31:31.473)
Yes. Yeah.

alice (31:42.67)
industries into his music. They like music is a huge, huge part of their culture, you know, every gathering, every wedding, and they were forbidden from dancing. So I think when you see, to me, it was like I went to that beautiful city and I thought, do you know what, you could be sitting in Edinburgh and somebody could invade your city and say, no, you're not going to wear you're not allowed to wear trousers anymore, girls want you in a kilt. We don't like you eating.

vegetables, they're going to be banned. And no, you can't watch TV anymore that we've decided against that. It was like that. It was like suddenly what right has any person to come in to another person's city and tell them what to do. So I think it really brought home to me the wrongness and the crime that is invasion. And you know, we have two very strong examples at the moment in our own world. And I would say to people, you have no right to do that to other people. They're just trying to live their lives. That's all.

Chris Watson (32:21.329)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (32:35.121)
Yep.

Chris Watson (32:40.273)
Absolutely, especially somewhere that's got such a historical, you know, such a cultural, you know, it's a landmark on the world map in terms of like trade and stuff like that, isn't it? And then to think that that's happening in the modern day is disgusting, quite frankly.

alice (32:41.326)
Just.

alice (32:55.566)
It's time for us all to try and, I don't know what the answer is, I guess the only thing we can all do personally is try, you know, make sure that our actions are as good as they can be. My big failing is I get terrible road rage, especially in Morocco, where everybody drives like a maniac and I'm saying that as a fact. So I'm like, for my little, I'm just trying to like...

Chris Watson (33:06.417)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (33:16.113)
There.

alice (33:21.07)
I'm trying to make sure that when I speak to people, I always try and use positive language and be decent. And I guess, you know, help people where I can. I think in a way when the world's so mad at the moment, which it feels, just do what you can and then try and be happy and enjoy your own art. You know, it's very hard. We're in a hard place at the moment.

Chris Watson (33:37.073)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So rolling back a little bit on, on, on that journey, you know, when you were on the camels and the donkey, so separating the taxi ride and stuff. So you were going through some areas where, you know, the old hotels where they kept the animals downstairs and everyone was upstairs and they've got a rich culture of storytelling and travelers tales. Haven't they? What, what is, what is, have you got anything you can share in that vein? What type of stories are that? Have you came across from people on your travels?

across Morocco, because they love to tell a tale.

alice (34:12.046)
they do. I mean, honestly, I do think rockers and Scots got a lot in common. But I mean, that is definitely the cult of storytelling. It's a very important art form here. And if you come to Marrakesh, the main big square every night, you'll see groups of Moroccans sitting there and there'll be somebody with like, you know, a local guitar, like an ode, and somebody with drums, and maybe somebody with a little flute, and then there'll be somebody telling a story. And I mean, the stories are brilliant. They have

traditional old ones that they tell over, like Ali Baba, they tell that story over and over again. But they also have new ones. And I mean, the stories are always like so dramatic. There's always like very bad baddies, very good baddies, a beautiful maiden, virtuous, always virtuous. The maiden is always virtuous. You know, camels who bravely run across the desert with the warriors on their backs. So I think it's very much those kind of...

big stories of life and love and drama.

Chris Watson (35:13.905)
Yeah, yeah. I think one of the other things that struck me about that as well is he came across an old tannery, didn't he, as well? And it had been going for like hundreds of years and all the animal hides were still coming in. It just looked like something out of, you know, like Arabian Nights or something like, you know, on the Silk Road or something like from like a bygone era. And they were still doing it exactly as they were hundreds, if not thousands of years ago.

alice (35:34.126)
Yeah!

alice (35:39.278)
Honestly Morocco is also a modern country but you can come and really discover the past here and I think that's why I love it so much, you know, looking back into history. And the tannery, I mean, one interesting thing about the tannery, so I went to the tannery, it absolutely stinks because they basically process the hides by using fermented chicken, not chicken, pigeon shit. So I mean, it's absolutely, it's really terrible.

Chris Watson (36:04.305)
Really?

alice (36:08.462)
And it gets very, very hot and rocker. And these guys, I went in, I was like, you poor men, honestly, and they earn crap money. And so I went in with this kind of like Western, you poor things, this is so awful, what a terrible life. And I was very quickly, very quickly corrected by Mohammed, who was my main guide and who I got a real bond with. He was like, poor things, what are you talking about? He said, I've raised seven children on this salary. He said, I love my work.

Not only that, he said, we have been doing it, like my grandfather, my great -grandfather, my great -great -great -great -great. And he went through several generations. So I think one of the things that that taught me is be very careful of spreading your pity around for what other people do. They're probably very proud of what they do, very happy with what they do. That was number one. And then number two was that, okay, it's my top tip. This is for your life. I want you to listen very carefully. When you're...

Chris Watson (36:50.801)
Mm.

alice (37:04.654)
about to jump into a vat of pitch and shit. Make sure that your waders are long enough.

Chris Watson (37:14.449)
Aw, that's horrendous.

alice (37:18.03)
Thank you.

Chris Watson (37:18.193)
God, not in the heat as well, I can imagine it was a sight for the senses. But it's an important point, and I think what you touched on there is who are we to cast judgment on what we think is right and wrong and poor and pitiful. We don't have any right to really do that, each to their own. These people, a lot of them live happier lives than we do. Well.

alice (37:40.878)
Yeah, each their own. Yeah.

Chris Watson (37:46.193)
I'll exclude you from that because it looks like you're living the dream quite frankly in the Atlas Mountains.

alice (37:52.462)
Well, it's, I mean, honestly, Chris, you do make a really important point. So one of the things, I've had to swallow my pride so often, I've got quite used to it. But one of the things here that's been very interesting living in this little community is, you know, I'm a single woman, I don't have any children. So I am absolutely pitied here. Now, I'm quite proud of myself and my accomplishments, but I am considered less than. So I am judged. Why is it actually me?

Chris Watson (38:20.433)
Yeah, wow.

alice (38:22.414)
even got a husband, I mean far less, what is wrong with her? Literally, you know, and she's not very good at cooking because of course I cook different food, which Moroccans are very conservative about their food. And look at her house, she doesn't clean it every day. I'm like, damn right. So I mean, I'm really, although I'm very proud of people love to be here and I'm treated with huge affection, but they do. They're there. What they judge people on is very different from what I do. And I fail. So.

You know, I am pitied and I am looked upon as less, which is quite difficult sometimes.

Chris Watson (38:58.289)
It's so interesting, isn't it? It's amazing. I love all that kind of cultural side of things. It's so fascinating. See, on the topic of food, have you ever, I'm going to turn this around actually, have you ever treated anyone to any Scottish delicacies? And if so, what have they thought of that?

alice (39:19.886)
Well, I'll tell you what goes down a storm is my drop scones. they are like, they're by popular demand now. Everybody loves my drop scones. After the earthquake here, I was like, I was the only person in the dark. So when the woman came to feed the cows, I would give them their second breakfast at 10 o 'clock, which is the norm here. And I made, I made porridge, which they loved.

because it's similar. So these are foods that they're recognizable to them and similar to their own foods. So they loved both of those things. And then next time I come, I'm going to bring back, it's very difficult here because people are very strict Muslims. So it has to be halal and you can't have pork in it. And I did bring back a haggis. Unfortunately, I realized before I served it, it had some pork in it. So I couldn't serve it. So I'm going to next time I come to Scotland, I'm going to buy a halal haggis and I will bring it over and cook it. Because they'll like that because we eat a lot of offal here. Offal is,

Chris Watson (39:58.673)
Mm -hmm.

Of course.

Chris Watson (40:14.929)
Yeah. Yeah. What's, eh, what is it like then cooking and eating there? Have you, I mean, sorry, let me rephrase that. Actually, what's your, what's your interaction been like with the Berber community? Are there Berbers where you are at the minute or those types of kind of nomadic type people?

alice (40:16.046)
Good.

alice (40:36.238)
Yeah, so this this whole area is in Berber and the correct word for Berber is Amazigh. So this is an Amazigh area and I live in my little house here. It's in a family compound. So there are four families and me. So there's about depending on summer, winter, but when we're full, it's about 25 of us live in the compound. We have a shared yard and it's a gated gate at the end to keep.

Chris Watson (40:42.705)
is here.

alice (41:05.23)
women and private really and to keep the family private and so I'm in the heart of the Amazigh and Berber community completely. I mean this is that's my every single day life so and I think it's quite interesting because I've been living here for quite a while now this tiny village in the Atlas Mountains probably knows more about Scotland than anywhere else in Morocco.

Chris Watson (41:07.313)
Yep.

Chris Watson (41:20.241)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (41:30.321)
Hehehe

Interesting, I mean, it must be about 22 years ago or so now, but I went to the Sahara via, like through Tunisia and we went, yeah, we went on a trek, a camel trek, my wife and I, which was interesting. But we met, we took to meet a kind of nomadic Berber type family, but it was underground and we took underground and we went for lunch and stuff.

alice (41:42.478)
What you?

Chris Watson (42:00.305)
And it was, because outside it was like 35 degrees, but then when we got inside, it was like a cool like 10 or 11 because you were so far underground and it was, it was wonderful. Yeah. Yeah.

alice (42:10.454)
what a great experience. I haven't done that. I don't know. Was that in the Tunisian, like the little caves?

Chris Watson (42:16.177)
Yeah, yeah. So it was, I mean, we were on, it was, must have been about an eight hour, you know, kind of ride from the city and into the Atlas Mountains. And we get, you know, taken on a hike and we actually came to, I can't even remember the town, I need to dig out the photos and stuff, but it was, I mean, it was almost like a mini oasis. There was like trees and stuff and there was like running water and there was this little, this kind of cave complex and the houses were underneath.

alice (42:45.39)
Fantastic.

Chris Watson (42:45.425)
It was like something that was tattooed in Star Wars. It was fantastic. But yeah, that was amazing. And the food. Yeah, the food's fantastic. So do you have communal sessions with your compound? Do you have dinner and stuff like that together? Or what's it like?

alice (42:48.302)
Yeah.

alice (42:52.878)
well that sounds amazing.

alice (43:03.278)
Well, we have all the big festivals, so things like, you know, Eid, so the festival after Ramadan and the big festival of sacrifice, we do that all together. And that's really, really, really fun. And we have parties, like we have kiddies parties and we have tea and quite often the women have tea at five o 'clock. They'll have like a fresh bread, fresh butter from the cow, fresh honey from the hives.

and I'll get invited. So that's really nice. And then in Ramadan, I fast and then I break the fast with my neighbour, usually with Fatima and Miriam. So that's all lovely. But no, I mean, normally I just cook on my own and I tend, I mean, the ingredients here, the local fruit and veg is fantastic. The taste, you know, the tomatoes are delicious and you buy everything. There's a weekly market where the farmers bring their produce down. So you buy everything there. And then I just cook.

I mean, I cook what, you know, normally what I like to cook. I cook a lot of tagines. This is very, very easy. And I also just cook like for lunch, I had brown rice with mushrooms, onions and lots of garlic.

Chris Watson (44:09.617)
which sounds fantastic, it's so simple, it's amazing. So how far off the beaten track are you in terms of like, if you think about like Morocco, Casablanca, Fez, whenever, are you like, are you far from a city?

alice (44:11.246)
I'm sorry.

alice (44:23.854)
Yeah, we're an hour and a half from Marrakesh and I mean the road used to be a disaster so it was it was a little bit more protected. People really only came for hiking but now they've improved the road so now we're starting to get a lot of people from which is quite right they should enjoy their own heritage people from Marrakesh and Casablanca come at the weekends which is beautiful in one way but in another way it does slightly destroy my peace.

Chris Watson (44:34.129)
Mm -hmm.

alice (44:50.318)
they all sit in the car park and put their music on at full blast and then I can't even hear myself think. So we're not, we're not, we're an hour and a half from the city but we're not off, we are kind of on and off the beaten track if that makes sense because as I say we're a trekking centre. I don't even know what our equivalent would be but people come here for the weekend you know because it's cool. So from the city so that's, that's the best way to describe it.

Chris Watson (45:01.969)
Mm -hmm.

Chris Watson (45:09.969)
nice.

Chris Watson (45:14.953)
Yeah. And Alice, how have things been since the earthquake and were you affected in that area? That's all.

alice (45:24.494)
Well, yes, we were. So I was here for the earthquake and it was absolutely terrifying and horrific. And the whole family were here. I was woken up by it. Anyway, we all went down to the safe area down in the car park. And I mean, I went to two in details. I did. Again, it was it was it was absolutely. Petrifying, but fortunately, nobody in our village died.

And then the next morning I got on my bike and went down because the road was closed, the electricity was off, we were cut off completely. And when I got onto the road, there were massive boulders and holes and landslides. The whole road was blocked. You could only do it on foot or on a bike or on a mule. And I realized the size of it. And then I started going past houses that had completely collapsed. Obviously everyone had been killed. And then I went down to the next valley and there...

then I saw the real scale of it where 3 ,000 people died in all. It's a bit like Scotland in that it's all scattered communities here. It's very small little places with 30 people in them or 100 people in them. In some places, everyone was killed because the mountain just fell on them.

Chris Watson (46:39.985)
near.

Chris Watson (46:43.409)
Yeah.

alice (46:43.566)
And, you know, aid was very quick to come. British people were so generous. They sent so much money and the money got through to the right people. So there's been a lot of rebuilding. There are still people living in tents because it's not easy to rebuild a whole set of communities and very remote. You know, we're not on a main road. We're miles. Some of the tiny villages are a day's walk or two days walk from a road. So rebuilding is not as easy as you'd think. And also,

first of all, everywhere has to be surveyed to see that the ground is stable, that there's no sinkholes, that nothing's been gravely shifted. So that's all ongoing. And if you think about it, if you lost one of your... I met a woman who'd lost seven members of her family, including her mother, her father, and her seven -year -old son, and two of her brothers. Now, she suffered that loss in September. She's not going to be over that loss.

Chris Watson (47:41.777)
Yeah.

alice (47:42.51)
not going to be back to normal. She never will be anyway. But I think those kind of wounds, there's not really much anyone can do about them, but they'll just take more time really. We're not even a year yet.

Chris Watson (47:55.793)
Yeah, it was a terrible tragedy and hopefully it's nice to hear that the aid actually got through because being over here, I didn't think it was particularly covered as long, you know, you think it was certain things are happening. I mean, there's a lot of like conflict in the world. Obviously, that gets a lot of media coverage without, you know, straining into that those sensitivities, but something like that, it seemed to come and go. And I'm in contact with some people over there and, you know, hearing more about that.

alice (48:15.182)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (48:23.665)
through those kind of sources than what was publicized. So it is nice and encouraging to hear that the aid was actually still getting through regardless of the media coverage.

alice (48:30.574)
It was access and what I would say is I think the British media and the American media, they really helped our communities because by publicising, people did give very generously and the money was used for very good uses. I mean, the people here are basically were not rich, so it was very, very helpful. And the generosity was very touching and the Moroccans felt very touched. The people who had been affected felt...

very touched by all the goodwill and all the messages. And I mean, the media does have to move on. I don't know if you remember, but a week later, Libya had the most terrible disaster and they've got no infrastructure. So they couldn't, we've got a very, very good government who were on it. Like by the road, for example, the road, which is impossible, they cleared it within three days. Whereas Libya was a disaster. So the news cycle has to move on. It's just the way part of life, isn't it?

Chris Watson (49:19.153)
That's amazing.

Chris Watson (49:24.177)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, it's good to see that it's on the mend, albeit, you know, it will take time. Excuse me. This has been wonderful. I'm just kind of conscious of the time we're now after almost about an hour on. So one of the things I wanted to kind of...

alice (49:27.054)
enough.

alice (49:34.382)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (49:50.289)
ask us about any big unrealized adventures but you did talk about Saudi Arabia is there anything else that you've got in the works or thinking about?

alice (50:00.142)
I swear to God, I always have a very long list. I think what I've learned, I've been trying to get something in Saudi Arabia off the ground for a very long time. So I really want to achieve what I've been working at in whatever form that takes. So that very much is taking up my energy at the moment. And then after that, there'll be another one. And I think the next one, I'm going to try and do something that I can accomplish on my own without having to...

Chris Watson (50:02.545)
Yep.

alice (50:27.47)
involve a lot of authorities and planning and fundraising and so on.

Chris Watson (50:34.097)
Interesting. And I'm excited to see what's coming on the BBC. So keep an eye out for that on iPlayer and stuff. Thank you for sharing your time. This has been wonderful. It's a real insight into your life, into Moroccan and Arabic culture. It's fantastic. I've got two closing traditions on the show, one of which is our paid forward.

alice (50:39.918)
Yes.

alice (50:53.23)
Thank you.

Chris Watson (51:02.257)
Suggestion for you to raise our awareness for a worthy cause, charity, organization that we can pay the privilege forward. And the second is a call to adventure. So if I could ask you first, Alice is a paid forward recommendation. What would you say to that?

alice (51:18.222)
Yeah, so I was brought up in Uganda, my parents were teachers, so the organization that I really support gets street children who've been put on the street, often in prostitution, drug taking, etc. And these are children from the age of six upwards, gets them back into school and back into their extended family. And it's called Salve Uganda, Salve as in the ointment. And basically,

all of the money they use for 30 quid a month, you can pay for a child's education. And I do it. And I've met one of the boys I've paid all the way through school, and he is now a mechanic, and he has a chance. And I don't know about you, but I think with charity, it's so important to have a charity that you know that the money gets to the actual recipients that isn't being spent on white four by fours going through the desert. So that's the South Uganda, they do amazing work, and all of their workers.

Chris Watson (52:06.545)
Yes. Yeah.

alice (52:13.294)
Their Ugandan workers are just so committed and they're so loving. I went and spent a few days with them and they're so loving towards these very, very bruised and broken children. It's beautiful to see actually.

Chris Watson (52:28.753)
If you can see, it's amazing that you can actually see the fruits of that.

alice (52:34.346)
Yeah. I mean, the only thing I'd say as well is that, you know, any charity, it's not the end of the issue. You know, poor old Matenga, who I supported, he's now having, it's tough for him to keep going through life. But at least you can give people a start, at least, you know, something, don't just leave them to sniff aeroplane fuel in the streets. I mean, nightmare.

Chris Watson (52:55.697)
Excellent, thank you. That's very, very worthy cause, Alice. And then switching to the call to adventure. So what would you recommend as a call to adventure for listeners or viewers to get out and do something a bit more adventurous?

alice (53:11.982)
what an actual specific place or an actual venture.

Chris Watson (53:14.001)
A place, a place, yeah, a place, an activity, a person, a resource, anything to get people inspired and away from the screen or the earphones.

alice (53:25.806)
Well, I mean, I think this is actually really easy. So my, all you have to do is I know that every single person who's listening has got something that's been niggling away at them in their brain. I know. Even if it's like to climb Snowden or to, you know, I don't know, run once around, go and do a park run or to cycle to the next town. I know that everyone will have something in their heads already.

that's like just picking away at them like Saudi Arabia's been picking away at me. So I would say my cult adventures do it and don't wait until you're fatter, thinner, don't wait until you're fatter, thinner, healthier, got more money, got more time. Don't wait because you know you'll wait and you won't do it. So just do it and you are good enough to do it now.

Chris Watson (54:17.329)
Excellent, yeah. Strength and conviction. Just write it down, pick a date and go and do it. It's quite a recurring theme. Thank you.

alice (54:22.958)
Yeah. And don't worry how slow or how rubbish you are. Or I mean, you might be really, really fast and really, really good. In which case, go for it.

Chris Watson (54:32.433)
Exactly, so I mean people often surprise themselves a lot of the time you don't really know what you're capable of until you actually, you know Get on the horse Fantastic Excellent. This has been wonderful Alice. Thank you very much for sharing your time your insights and your adventures Where can people find out more about Alice and all your adventures and what's coming?

alice (54:36.174)
WHA -

alice (54:48.814)
Pleasure. My pleasure.

alice (54:59.214)
Thank you for this big plug, alicemorrison .co .uk. Very easy. Or if you can't remember that, just do Alice Morocco in Google and you'll find me. I am ubiquitous.

Chris Watson (55:02.065)
Hehehe

Chris Watson (55:08.977)
Yeah, and also AliceOutThere1, I think, on Instagram as well. Yeah.

alice (55:13.71)
Yeah, on Instagram and X and the BBC series which is coming out in June is called. Okay, I'm going to do the thing. Are you ready? Are you ready? Are you ready?

Chris Watson (55:20.145)
yeah.

alice (55:25.838)
Join me, Alice Morrison, for Arabian Adventures, the Secrets of the Nabataeans, on BBC News. There you go!

Chris Watson (55:33.233)
fantastic. Excellent. Exclusive. Brilliant. Thank you very much, Alice. That is wonderful. Thanks. Now I'll draw it to a close.

Chris.