Justin Packshaw MBE: Kite Skiing Across Antarctica Adventure (Ultimate Test of Human Potential)

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Adventure Diaries: Justin Packshaw MBE – Pushing Human Limits in the Harshest Environments

In this episode of Adventure Diaries, I sit down with Justin Packshaw MBE—adventurer, entrepreneur, and modern-day explorer. From the frozen extremes of Antarctica to the summit of Everest, from racing around the world to traversing the North and South Poles, Justin has built a life defined by resilience, boldness, and the relentless pursuit of the unknown.

We dive into Justin’s record-breaking Antarctic expedition, Chasing the Light, where he and his teammate, Jamie Facer-Childs, became some of the most highly monitored humans on the planet. With backing from NASA and the European Space Agency, their mission collected vital data on human endurance, mental resilience, and the effects of extreme environments—insights that may one day shape future space travel.

Justin shares how growing up in Malta shaped his adventurous mindset, how the British Army gave him the discipline for extreme expeditions, and why teamwork, leadership, and mindset are everything in high-risk situations. We explore the mental and physical challenges of survival, the importance of calculated risk, and what Antarctica is teaching us about climate change.

Topics Discussed:

✅ The role of curiosity and boldness in shaping a life of adventure
✅ Lessons from historical explorers like Shackleton, Amundsen, and Knox-Johnston
✅ The Antarctic crossing and its contribution to space travel research
✅ How extreme environments reveal hidden depths of human capability
✅ The reality of climate change, witnessed firsthand in the polar regions
✅ Why positive mental attitude and humor are survival tools
✅ What it takes to build and lead elite teams in dangerous conditions
✅ The philosophy of pursuing excellence and making adventure meaningful

Call to Adventure 🚀

Justin challenges you to try something new—big or small, just take the first step. Whether it’s a new sport, an expedition, or a personal challenge, boldness has genius, magic, and power in it.

Pay It Forward 🌍

Justin emphasizes the power of small actions to combat climate change—turning off lights, reducing waste, and making sustainability part of daily life. He also highlights the importance of mentorship and investing in youth to shape the next generation of explorers and change-makers.

🎧 Listen now and get inspired to push beyond your limits!

👉 Subscribe & Review: If this episode fuels your adventurous spirit, leave a review and share with fellow explorers! #AdventureDiaries #JustinPackshaw #Antarctica #Exploration

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Extreme Adventures
• 0:30 Defining Modern Adventure
• 1:13 Meet Justin Packshaw MBE
• 3:16 Justin's Formative Years
• 4:33 Justin's Formative Years
• 7:36 The Role of the Military in Shaping Justin
• 12:49 First Big Adventures Post-Army
• 14:40 Philanthropy and Environmental Awareness
• 16:12 The Importance of Mentors
• 28:14 Building Strong Teams
• 32:48 Training for Extreme Expeditions
• 35:39 Mastering Kite Flying in Low Winds
• 36:19 The Importance of Sleep and Stress Management
• 36:50 The Role of Data in Extreme Expeditions
• 38:47 Surviving the Harsh Antarctic Conditions
• 39:20 46The Psychological Challenges of Isolation
• 42:46 Reaching the South Pole: A Dream Realized
• 45:25 The Power of Positive Thinking
• 52:33 Inspiring the Next Generation
• 59:41 Future Adventures and Climate Change
• 1:02:38 Closing Thoughts and Call to Adventure

Transcript

 You've summited Everest, you've raced around the world, you've raced to the North Pole, you jet ski up the coast of Nigeria. 

That was one of the most dangerous things I've ever done, by the way. 

It's mad. 

The circumstances that Mother Nature throws at you, and for us, right at the beginning, we lost about 12 days when we had over 100 miles an hour of wind, and it was tough, and we were just hunkered down.

Using fuel and eating food that we needed to do. The 2, 700 kilometers in front of us. So, yeah, you just have to say there's nothing we can do. What does adventure actually mean today, in this century? Everything is really being explored. The real explorers were the turn of the century Victorian explorers, as we've said.

Amundsen, Scott, Pieri. All those amazing people who did first when there were no maps and no prior knowledge. And the next exploration for us is space. 

Welcome to the adventure diaries podcast, where we share tales of adventure, connection, and exploration from the smallest of creators to the larger than life adventurers.

We hope their stories inspire you to go create your own extraordinary adventures. And now your host, Chris Watson.  

Welcome to another episode of the Adventure Diaries. Today we're joined by Justin Pakshaw MBE, an adventurer, entrepreneur and a former British army officer whose pursuit of exploration and adventure has taken him to the ends of the earth literally. 

Justin has led expeditions across the north and the south poles, climbed Everest and most notably kite skied 2, 500 kilometers across Antarctica. In a 63 day journey with his teammate, Dr. Jamie Facer Childs. They battled temperatures of minus 62 degrees, treacherous winds and all whilst hauling sleds weighing over 200 kilograms. 

A journey that tested the very limits of human endurance.  And one that was done in partnership with NASA, the European Space Agency. and Stanford University.  A mission that would allow scientists to observe a rare scientific story of human adaptability, which will ultimately contribute to the ongoing mapping of genomic,  physiological and psychological and environmental data models of human centered space exploration.

And Justin and Jamie pulled off this epic feat using sheer determination, resilience and teamwork. With a little bit of fun and humour in the mix.  What an expedition. What a story. So settle in and enjoy this fantastic conversation with Justin Pakshaw, MBE. Justin Pakshaw, MBE, welcome to The Adventure Diaries.

How are you? Very good, Chris. Thank you, uh, very much for having me. Yeah, very excited. So many things I'm excited about this conversation, notably Antarctica, Chasing the Light, and also, I think you followed the path of the James Caird voyage as well, and the path of, uh, Miss Shackleton. So we'll come to that. 

As well. So that's going to be the frame for today. But for those that really don't know much about Justin, let's roll back a little bit and talk about some of your formative years, your, your background. So I believe that you were brought up in Malta before entering into the military. So what's that like?

Yeah, I was super lucky, Chris, if I'm honest, I had a pretty blessed childhood in that  I'm the youngest of four, so I was always trying to be bigger and better and faster than my brothers and sisters, who are all pretty good sportsmen and, uh, interesting people. And my folks, yeah, they were based in Malta from when I was one, and they were all keen sailors, so we always did a lot of sailing.

And so I was, Quite lucky because I started competitive sailing when I was really tiny, almost before I could walk. And to see such a good background for learning masses of stuff about life, but to really, one of the sort of key things is understanding.  And mother nature and the power of it, but also you're in small spaces, how to get the best out of people.

And so I was extremely lucky. That was all became second nature to me, really. And alongside all of that, I was really fascinated by old school explorers as we all are really. And. It's only just over a hundred years ago that Peary went to the North Pole in 1909. Obviously Amundsen, Ronald Amundsen raced Scott to the South Pole in 1911, beaten by 34 days.

And something we should touch on, he had a guy called Lawrence Oates with him in his team. And I, as you said, I was in the army for a while and Lawrence Oates was in my regiment. He was a soldier and he was a phenomenal man. He's the guy who, they all died, but he had very bad frostbite on the way back.

And he was holding everyone up and he left his tent and said, I'm just going outside and I might be some time. And he basically walked to his death, but he was a phenomenal man. And so, yeah, Amundsen. And then obviously Hillary and tenting Norgay in 29th of May, 1953, when they climbed up Everest. And. Robin Knox Johnson, who in 67, on a 32 foot boat, Sahuli, sailed around the world in 312 days.

And that captivated me. And rather interestingly, the record now for a team sailing around the world is 40 days, 23 hours. So you see how things have progressed. And then obviously the moon. And all of that was just like 100 years ago. So it's mad, really. And I was captivated by it. And as with all these things, I'm not really very good at anything.

I just threw my hand in, and suddenly you start to see that you can do more stuff. And I'm so lucky when I look back now. I'm nearly 60, and I think Christ, I've been to the the North Pole three times. I've been to the South Pole four times. I've crossed Antarctica. I've done masses of wonderful things.

What a privilege stood on the top of the highest mountain in the world. And all of it just by being curious, really. And it started, it's interesting. You bring my early life. It was cemented then about just being very interested. My parents were keen that all their kids was two things, really, that they were.

interested in life and that they were interesting as individuals. And so I tried to carry that modus  operandum forward, really, as I've gone through the decades, really. 

Captivated and curious. What did you want to be? Because there's a lot of different themes in there. There's, you know, obviously going to the moon, climbing Everest.

That obviously wouldn't have happened by then, I don't believe, timing wise, but racing around the world. What did young Justin want to aspire to be? Can you recall? 

It's a great question, Chris. My, my parents. They were quite unusual really because  they  didn't really mind if we weren't that conformist and by conformist it's this is what you should do and you should do it because it'll give you more money and you'll be more secure.

They were really They drove us around do stuff, which really fuels your soul. And I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I was quite a keen sportsman. I was quite a good sportsman when I was at school and stuff. And one day a guy called Arthur DeNaro, who's quite a famous chap who was in our special forces, came and talked at my school. 

And I was in the sixth form and I was wondering what I should go and do and stuff. And I got slightly captivated by him. He was a hell of a character and he was very embullient and colorful. And so I thought I'll just go into the army. I was already quite a good sailor. So I was on the cusp of sailing for Britain and that's what I did do.

And I did it on a whim, really. I joined for three years. I ended up doing 10 and I had an amazing time and learned.  As with all these things,  if you're going to go and do things which are out of the ordinary, there's a sort of language and there's a set of disciplines that you have to learn if you want to be successful, really.

And the military, for me, it was a very  good bedrock to start experimenting and seeing and molding some of the skill sets that I needed.  They're brilliant at it. The British Army in particular is exceedingly good at helping you develop those things and also really understand how to get the best out in people, teamwork, and all of those things have featured hugely in all the expeditions I've ever put together and led and I'm a huge believer in that and systematically from  Being a young lad, to going into the army, to sailing for Britain, all of those things culminated in me having a sense of purpose and a sense of confidence, really, to think, yes, maybe I could try and do that, even though it feels a long way away and it might be out of my grasp, I'll give it a go. 

And that's the attitude I've always had, really. And now I'm trying to feed that back into other people and open their eyes as to what's out there and the sort of beauty of stepping into the unknown and going and seeing for yourself.  

Did you see the army as a necessary step to get the leadership qualities and things to enter a world of adventure or expedition?

Look, we're all 

different. I think I would have got there even if I hadn't gone into the army. But what the army did teach me is a sense of values which have been. Really important. And I think about it a lot now, actually, as I get older and with my children, discipline, however you look at it, discipline is a tough thing.

And when you were young, I was, I wouldn't say I was rebellious, but I didn't, I just wanted to walk my walk really. And a lot of the times that can be wrong, you know, you, but you have to trip up and graze your knees and go, okay, my mentors, my parents said I shouldn't do it. I went and did it and now I've grazed my knees, but that's important.

And what.  The military did for me was it allowed me to realize that there's a lot more capability in me than I might think. And I do lots of talks now to businesses and things. Humans are meant to excel. We are a brilliantly adaptive piece of mechanics. And when I started realizing you think that you're doing something and you're nearly at empty, you're not at empty.

There's a lot more in there. And so as you start pushing the parameters around what you're capable of doing, and it's done in a very safe way, in a very clever way. So it doesn't tarnish your confidence too much, but at the end of it, even that's very hard when you're going through it, when you get to the end of it, you are a foot taller and you suddenly realize that your confidence has been built up and there aren't many environments where. 

You are allowed to do that in quite a safe way and quite clever way and you can take it to a very high level And that's what I did. I really pushed it and I was fascinated. I've always been fascinated in what the human can do and Pushing those parameters but and interestingly on that those parameters are not just physical everything physical is driven by Mental fortitude and mental agility really and so those two going hand in hand when you start looking at encompassing them to be a superpower, then that's amazing.

It's quite a powerful 

tool. So coming out of the army, what age were you, Justin? I was late 20s. I was 

late 

20s. And just for added context for everyone else, we do want to talk about Antarctica, and that is really pushing the limits, and we'll talk about the science behind that.  The adventures that you have done.

You've touched on Everest, you've summited Everest, you've raced around the world, you've raced the North Pole. You did jet ski up up the coast of Nigeria. 

That was one of the most dangerous things I've ever done, by the way. It's, 

it's mad. Some of the things that, things that you've done are incredible, but what was the first big adventure?

After the army and how do you think your skill set? 

Yeah, I think for me, sailing was a big bedrock for me because I got involved in sailing at a high level during the America's Cup in Newport in 1983, 84, and it was going on there and I was involved with the beat up.  And then that followed on when I was in the army for doing a race called the Whitbread, which you've mentioned, which is a race around the world.

And that was at a very high level. And so it was great. I was sailing with people who were phenomenally good. So I learned a lot. I was pretty young at the time and we were really comprehensively good team. And we were underdog, which is always quite fun. And. So, I think those two open my eyes as to the field of excellence, really, or striving for excellence in a sport.

And then, oddly, towards the, obviously, the military, you can, there's lots of things that you go and do, which galvanized me. They were physically challenging, and so I did minor things. And then, I was always quite keen to climb Everest, and it was a sort of process. I rode horses across Mongolia, which was an amazing expedition, which was quite early.

The Russians had just left, because Russia had taken over Mongolia, and they were in charge of it for 70 years, and nothing really happened there. And when we went in to do our expedition, we were a tiny team. I didn't have anyone helping us. We went and bought and sold horses as we went across. When we went to Ulaanbaatar, the capital, I think there were four cars there.

We got off at the airport and we got on horses like John Wayne style and rode to our hotel.  It was fantastic. Now if you go there, Ulaanbaatar is a phenomenal big metropolitan city and it was a progressive thing about curiosity really. At that time, I  that if you're going to go and do these things and you're lucky enough to be able to make them happen, try and do some good on the back of 

it.

So I've always raised money on my trips and I've always paid my way.  Thought, okay, let's make some noise around good initiatives, important causes, and that's been very important. Obviously, wounded soldiers was a very big thing and part of my life. And, but also climate change, sustainability. I first went to the North Pole 30 something years ago, and it's almost impossible to do that trip now.

The ice is so thin. And that's real. That isn't something that's not Hocus Pocus. And That's really frightening. 30 years in the grand scheme of Mother Nature and our world, this is a very serious problem. And having seen it, it's an important thing. The same with Antarctica. Antarctica loses an Everest volume of ice a year.

I've seen these things, so I just think it's important to try and bash the drum around getting people to sit up and go Okay, this is an important issue, whatever it might be, whatever those issues are. 

Yeah, I think we'll probably come on to some of that stuff later as well in terms of worthy causes and sustainable travel and what we can do for the science, which was a big part of the chasing the light expedition.

But  rolling back a little bit, just in thinking about all the good work you've done in terms of adventuring expeditions and all the charitable and philanthropic work that you've done. Have you had any mentors along your, along the way? Or have you crafted this journey just through curiosity? Has there been important mentors or people in your life that helped?

Yeah, many mentors, really. I think it's imperative to have people that you can call upon to Give you advice to inspire you and also sometimes to hold you to check to make you accountable. And yes, I have. I had in the military that a lot of my bosses were phenomenal. And then subsequently, as I've gone off on my own, not on my own, but I've just started doing things, running my own trips.

And yeah, I have a collection of people who are fantastic and  who are very sage really. And the reality. Chris, we only have one stab at this life and it goes so quickly. As I said, I'm nearly 60. I just can't believe how fast the last sort of. 40, 50 years gone. And I learned from people all the time. I learned from my kids.

I learned from their friends. I'm very interested about furthering myself and you don't get somewhere and suddenly that is it. I'm the full package or That's bologna. You just keep evolving hopefully. And again, I use the word curiosity. It's just being curious about what's happening. I'm a partner in a fantastic travel company called Juro  and my two partners are both 30 and they're inspirational.

Their work ethic, their conscious belief in doing what is right with regard to  The world and everyone who works for us, and they're all young. The majority of people within the company are under 30. And my God, it's super exciting that they are actually very inspiring. And I think if you have that attitude, it really helps.

Um, in. wanting to have an appetite for growing and doing stuff and looking at what the future might hold for you. 

I couldn't agree more as far as we only get one shot at this life and there are too many people that unfortunately don't live intentionally and they don't go out and try to do.  hard things or transformative things.

And sometimes you can do these for yourself. That's a bit selfish. There's also ways of giving back and encouraging people along the way because you don't want to be on your deathbed and looking back with any, what could have been. It's, we're all just a little flicker of starlight in a grand universe and we'll all be forgotten about in 50 or a hundred years time.

You need to make the most of what's in front of you.  What better way to do it than through a journal? That's so true. You 

know, there's lots of things. What controls the quality of your life? A lot of people get this very confused. And they think you can be rich,  but unhappy. And it's really all about  Emotion and passion.

It's about what you want, where you want to put your energy in what's going to fulfill you and what is going to make your soul sing. And a lot of that is when you test yourself, when you push yourself  into some kind of a situation where you're unsure that it's possible. And sometimes danger is a very good thing, as long as you're sensible, but it's a very good thing to. 

Get involved in because at the end of it, you will come back and you'll go, my goodness, I've learned a mass about myself. I've learned a mass about other people. And I think that as long as you're sensible, you must be very sensible with all these things. A lot of these trips I've done, they're quite dangerous around.

If they go wrong, then you're going to put other people's lives at risk to come and help you. We, you mentioned chasing the light when Jamie and I, we did an expedition all the way across Antarctica, but from the other side, let's say from the side below South Africa. And no one really goes into the middle of Antarctica.

Antarctica is one and a half times the size of North America. It's a big piece of real estate. And our high risk assessment was that if. Something went wrong. Potentially someone could get to us within two weeks. But very unlikely. The terrain that we crossed, I don't think a plane could land. So you're on your own, and you've got to be very sensible about how you do these things.

But if you feel that you can, and you're successful,  You're going to grow. And that's all about experience. It's all about, as I said to you before, the quality of life around the passion for wanting to go and look at these things and everything that comes into that, which is discipline, grit, resilience, preparation, all of those things will mean that you'll be successful.

And even if you aren't successful, there's many a trip, whether it's a mountain or whatever, that I have  no this isn't gonna work and we're gonna turn around and we're just not gonna do it.  And again, that's fine. And as Jackleton, very famously said, I'd rather be a living donkey than a dead lion. And yeah, it's a process.

It's all a process. 

Yeah. I think that The satisfaction you get from trying these things, even just the planning of these things and the journey doesn't only always need to be concluded, but just testing and learning and going again. Like you say, it's such a short life. We're only here for such a short space of time and to not go out and try and see and experience and feel these things and Yeah, I find it quite sad that not many people are like that.

There's only a small collection of people that are  captivated by that wonder, that geographical curiosity to go out and do hard things, not just for The wanderlust. Yeah. 

You're absolutely right, Chris. The funny thing is the best part of these trips is the pleasure, the salivating. You're in the pub and you're having a beer with your mates and it's, what about if we try and jet ski from Cameroon to Benin and everyone goes.

No, not possible. And do you know what I mean? The planning and then the salivating and then, as you say, the preparation. Masses of preparation has to go into these things. Certainly if you want to be successful. And listen, there's masses of press at the moment about, say, Everest. And I sit on the fence, not on the fence post on this.

I'm pretty adamant about it. Look, anyone who wants to go. And climb any of the big mountains. It's a slog and it's dangerous. You're not going to just mash up Everest at all. And it takes a huge amount of discipline, preparation and effort.  And even if the path has been trodden before, but still it's an amazing achievement and it's very uplifting and rewarding. 

And as with all these things, it's a tricky one. When I climbed Everest back in 2012, we had two young children, uh, and we had a pretty fledgling business. And that's a lot of strain. I was away for 60 days. So there's always a  There's a support system tied into good preparation, uh, the passion, as I said before, and the discipline, et cetera, et cetera, which will have you growing as an individual.

But you have to be able to take that chance because most of the time people will say you're mad and that you're putting a lot of people in a very difficult situation. The story without question in my opinion. Adventurous Life is my wife, who always is at home, picks up the pieces, and manages everything sublimely.

But she knows that I'm sensible, and  will hopefully, at the right time, make the right decision. Sometimes you have to push through. And that it's a passion of mine, and has never thwarted it or diminished it for me, which  is imperative. Everyone, you want them to be their very best virgin.  

What did your wife, uh,  Tamsin's your wife, Justin, is that right?

Yeah, 

Tamsin, yeah. 

What did she say when the Antarctica expedition came up? Did she take much convincing?  

This stage, more importantly, when  Tam and I married 20  something, three years ago, she said, please don't climb Everest. And so that took some convincing and that took a bit of time. By the time, Chasing the Light expedition was coming.

I've been working on it for a while. It's quite a tricky, that is a complicated expedition. Also, I'm getting a bit too old to do that kind of long. It took us 60 something days, Jamie and I, and you're pretty bashed every day. We were completely unsupported. And I think she realized that it was my last proper big hurrah of that magnitude of trip.

And as I said, she She trusts me, is the bottom line. And,  that was a very special trip for me, because I moved from philanthropy, raising money for things, and taking wounded soldiers on trips, to, I want to start telling the story around, the research and the importance of understanding how important these areas are.

And Antarctica as a case in point, on top of Antarctica sits an ice cube.  And that ice cube is about five Ks at its highest point about five Ks in depth. And it represents 90 percent of the world's freshwater. If that starts melting, or if we don't stop it melting at the rate that it is, we're going to have a problem. 

And so I thought, okay, who are the best people that we can get to galvanize the storytelling of this? And so we collaborated with NASA. and the European Space Agency, and also with Stanford University and other amazing educational and academic organizations. And it was phenomenal. And then on the backside of that was what does adventure actually mean today in this century?

Everything has really been explored.  Were the turn of the century, Victorian explorers, as we've said, Amundsen, Scott Peary, all those amazing people who did first when there were no maps and no prior knowledge.  And the next exploration for us is space.  And it's very exciting. And there's not many ways that you can test for, if someone's going to fly to Mars, they're going to be in a tin can for three months.

And what are the psychological aspects of that? It's not easy. And Antarctica is a superb place to test that. And you forget, Antarctica is just white.  I mean, it's just a white mass. And a lot of the time there is no blue sky. You're on a sort of, it's got this white demeanor around the cloud coverage. And  you do that day in, day out when you're working hard and you can't talk to your teammates.

It eventually starts playing havoc with your mind because you have to entertain yourselves. And then your lots of odd things happen to us. We had, Jamie and I obviously had, I have to just mention my teammate, Jamie,  who is a guy called Jamie. Yeah, face your child. I was going to say, doing my 

research, I think Jamie, he's a doctor, but he's the world's first frozen embryo twin.

Which is a bit of a medical miracle in the UK, which is a bit of a medical in its own 

right. Fantastic. He's a very special human being. And as I said to you before, we're going off piste a bit, but this is relevant. I've done teams for most of my life. And there's no better way of looking at teams than on a sailing boat, because there's no way you can go when you're driving these big boats hard, you work hard.

And a lot of times you'll have people who. are just very good at what they do, but there might be something about them which raises an eyebrow with you. And occasionally you'll have cook offs just to blow off steam. Jamie and I lived in a tiny tent. Antarctica, there's always a big prevailing wind, so everything's very small and low.

We were pulling sledges which were over 200ks each. We were kite skiing, so we had kites which were bigger than we should have because we had all the sweat, so they were very unruly and quite. Precarious to fly and 60 63 days. I think we were on the ice proper and We didn't have one bad word. Not one really We had the most empathetic It was teamwork and teammanship at its very finest.

Um, he is an extraordinary man and a delight. You know, he was a delight to be with, very capable.  And we were just strong. It just, when it works well, it took me a long time to build, to understand what  Yeah. And a lot of it isn't about physical prowess. It's about empathy and it's about care. It's about  consideration and kindness, oddly.

And again, I did a race to the Magnetic North Pole in 2005 and it was a 450 mile race and endurance races is, there's mad things really, someone comes up with a mad idea.  And says, let's do something which is physically very demanding  and mentally very demanding and then deprive people of food and sleep and just watch the carnage that happens. 

And then someone said, let's do it at the going up to the magnetic North Pole on sea ice when there's polar bears, which are just coming out of hibernation. So they're hungry and it's all quite precarious.  And there were seven teams when I did this race and.  You could be a four, three, or a two, and I did it with an amazing, uh, Italian girl called Cristina Franco.

And We were just a team of two and I could see when we arrived, everyone looked at us and were like, yeah, we're going to have you for breakfast.  Anyway, the long and short is we won, we won the race and we run it, we won it very much because of Christina because she brought a whole mass of other. skill sets, which meant that we were just strong all the way and not as physically strong as say some of the others, but we were very economical.

We were very efficient. So when you build teams, it's subtle things really. 

Yeah. Coming back to the Antarctica, uh, Expedition Jamie.  How did you meet Jamie? Were you guys paired together by one of the organizations? Or did you know each other? How did that come to be? 

It was totally me. So I pulled, I say totally me, but the trip was I pulled everyone together with regard to all the organizations.

I've been thinking about trying to do this for a long time, and I was wondering whether it should be a team of four, three or two. The thing about small teams is they're very quick. You're very efficient, but obviously. There's more pressure on you because you've got to carry more weight and if something happens to one of you, then it's quite difficult for the other person to carry.

If you're three or four, if one person's not so strong.  Three people can start helping with carrying weight and stuff. So there's a bit of a risk, but I like it if it works. And I was looking for the right person  and by chance I was involved. The military just does all of these trips very well. And a few years before Jamie did a crossing from the Weddell Sea.

To the Rossi of Antarctica man hauling, it was an army team and led by a fantastic chap called Lou Rudd. And when they were looking at their preparation, the army had a high risk assessment. It was on that advisory board  and they came and did a pitch, which was fantastic, headed by Lou. And Jamie was there as well.

They, he was the doctor on that trip and.  He just caught my eye, really, as being obviously very talented. He'd already rode the Indian Ocean. He was a strong chap. I knew I needed someone who was a bit younger. Anyway, we became mates, really, and we used to train together. So it started from there, and then we formed a team, obviously. 

slotted into place. 

Fantastic. You touched on training there. So what, and obviously there's quite an age difference between you both and what you were actually undertaking. The environment is hostile as but kite skiing, which was a bit new to me actually, but doing the research, you were going about 33 kilometers an hour, I believe at points dealing with Sestrugi, potential crevasses.

That must have been tough on the body.  Yeah. So what was your training regime like and what was that as an experience? Very tough. 

As with all these things, Chris, I think you just have to be as strong as you can be, really. You have to be quite robust. That particular trip was Extremely physical, because as you rightly say, these kites are fantastic when you control them, but if you're pulling a sledge which has got over 200 kilograms in, and it turns over, which they do a lot, you've got to stop your kite, and you've got to work your way back, and then try and, and if it gets out of its safe zone, it's just going to take you off, and you've got to be robust, really, to control it. 

I'd watch Jamie having falls every day and I'd just be like, Oh my God, you must have hurt yourself. And he always come back. No, no boss. I'm right. Everything's fine.  And yeah, I think training again, it's an enormously important part of these trips. And at that magnitude, you just got to get yourself into as best shape as possible, both mentally and physically.

So we did a lot of tire dragging. You've got to get your core quite strong. And yeah, I'm a very big believer in the whole aspect of what  training does. Training for me is a metaphor of life, really. The dedication, the determination. the desire, the work ethic, successes, the failures, all of that comes into preparing you really.

And, uh, yeah, so I'm a big advocate for really  

Logistically, Justin, just thinking about the kite. Did you both have a kite attached to your skis, or was it a single kite that you were both operating? No, 

no, no, yeah, so we took eight kites, four each. Now you're completely separate, so you basically, kite surfing. 

So the kite is attached to a harness, to a, like a climbing harness really. So the kite is attached to you, you're obviously in skis with ski boots on, and then you have a harness, on your harness, you have another harness, which attaches to a very heavy sledge. Okay, yeah. And so depending on the weather, we had a six meter kite, square meter kite, which we'd fly up to about 35,  38 knots, which is a lot of wind really, sometimes 40 knots.

And then we had an 18 meter kite, which we'd fly on 50 meter lines. So we got so good at, we didn't often have not much wind, but there were days when we didn't have much wind. And we could fly these kites, we reckoned in about five, six knots, which is a hell of an art to get them up 50 meter lines. But when they were up there, we'd always try and just keep moving.

Did you have fun at times or were you just constantly battling the elements? We had a lot of fun. 

Yeah, I think we had a lot of fun. Look, that trip you. Slightly got your heart in your mouth because we were the furthest people from anyone in the world.  

I've actually got an interesting observation on that, I'm just checking my note to make sure I get this right.

So looking at the dashboard and the statistics and considering the age difference, you undertook the expedition on considerably less sleep  than Jamie. I think you were averaging about five and a half hours a day. He was more closer to eight, but your stress levels were less. Sleep by about 6 percent or so, and I found that quite an interesting thing. 

Everyone's biology is different. Did that affect performance at all? Were you getting enough sleep or is that just how you operate? 

I think we were the most, again, not only were we the furthest from anyone, Jamie and I for a year were the most highly tested individuals on the planet. So we gave blood, pee, poo and saliva every day for a year.

And then we had masses of smart technology on us, so all of that data is being analysed now and recorded,  and there's various reasons for it. Obviously, as I said, the next what's going to happen with space travel and stuff, but also ageism is a fascinating thing. It's the next growth market, people from my age up to 80.

The science now is really fantastic, which means that in theory we should live better. You might not live longer, but hopefully you will stay alive. More active and more physically and mentally sound than we might have done 30 or 40 years ago Just because there's a music sheet we can work off now  and to come back to your question around sleep and stress There's probably two factors there one Obviously, I'm older and I've experienced  This sort of stuff for most of my life and stress is a strange thing It's how you actually analyze and react to stretch to stress tends to come on what stress has been thrown at you and how you analyze and dissect that in the past and Again coming back to being a soldier Been to war.

I've been in very stressful situations. And so you will analyze that. Uh, Jamie, I'm sure when he is my age is his stress levels would be even lower than mine,  because he's a very remarkable man. The other way to look at it is I'm obviously not very bright. Uh, and, and so I just don't really dwell on things like that.

It's a, it's a funny one, but yeah, really interesting. And the science it's starting all to come in. The science is coming back now, some of the research and it's fascinating. You know, it really is because lots of amazing things Antarctica is it's a pristine environment and by pristine What I mean is there isn't a living entity there.

There's no virus. There's no bacteria. It is pristine So as petri dishes go it's the best you could ever get When you're looking at what is the human what is their true potential? What you have to do is you have to really stress test them to the very edge of what is possible Their ability and there's sad stories and someone I knew quite well in the army Henry Worsley who tried to do a solo crossing of Antarctic from the Weddell Sea to the Ross Ross Sea very sad sadly died a Handful of years ago just before the end and it's a brutally different difficult And there's masses of stories that Everest is littered with dead bodies.

If you go back to the Scott and his team and obviously Lawrence, I captured Lawrence Oates from my old regiment again, it's exploration is what helps enhancement of understanding what.  We can do and what's out there. And so it's, yeah, it's important and yeah, it's interesting subject. 

Yeah. The point about stress is it's not broad brush because I think there are positive sides of stress if you think of the fight flight response and various other factors.

And the reason that I've raised that is the isolation. And  obviously in a team of two, but isolated, like you say, from the rest of civilization, quite frankly. Did that ever play on your mind? Because I believe you were hunkered down in a tent for maybe a week or two at some point as well. So how did you deal with the mental side of that?

And as a team, were there any strategies you adopted to keep each other sane and motivated? 

Yeah, look, I think what you have to do is Is think about it and my answer might surprise you, but one of the most important things is to have a really good sense of humor and to look at. Obviously, you have to take these things, but we were in a pretty life and death kind of scenario, but we just had a bit of a laugh.

Jamie is. very pleasant company. And we played a lot of backgammon. As you said, right at the beginning, we planned this down  to the hour with regard to the fuel we carried and the food we had. And right at the beginning, because the Antarctic season is quite narrow, it's not a very long season. Uh, and we had to start at the end of winter, really a little bit.

Before the season opens, and it was brutally cold a couple of days. We skied and we looked at the our stats and temperature stats and we've been skiing in six minus 62 minus 62. If you put a saber up, you get blocks of ice coming out. If you think that your freezer is minus 14 and you work through. The circumstances that mother nature throws at you.

And for us, right at the beginning, we lost about 12 days when we had over a hundred miles an hour of wind and it was. Tough and we were just hunkered down using fuel and eating food that we needed to do the 2700 kilometers in front of us. And so yeah, you just have to say that there's nothing we can do.

This is it. So we entertained ourselves. We played a lot of backgammon. We I don't know. We, we were good company. Yeah, we were. And also, I'm a firm believer if you can't do something rest, just rest, you've got, every day we were burning enormous amount of calories and so yeah, you just have to get on with it.

And, and then at the end, and we were on half rations, I think for the last, just under three weeks. And when we finished, we had a half liter of fuel and we had no food. The last day. So we stretched it literally right to the very end. And you could say that was very well planned. It was very tight. Very tight. 

What was it like coming to the, to the end of that? 'cause I think, what, 57 60 or so days? 2,500 kilometers. minus 60 temperatures. It's a fair undertaking. What was it like when you got to the finish line on that?  

Oh my goodness, Chris, I can't, you know, you kind of dream of it, you know, and you,  the spirit of freedom is A really intoxicating thing.

And I never stopped thanking someone for allowing me to have been able to undertake these things. And I know how lucky I am and I'm hugely humbled by it all. But when you've been doing something for that long and you miss your people, you miss comfort. I took two pairs of knickers with me. You are as basic can be.

I didn't have a shower for 67 days and you dream about everything, home and all the. people that you love. And when we started realizing Christ, we might actually do this. We might.  And the day that we actually got to the South Pole, the day before we got to 35 miles, we did about a 70 miler and it was, the weather was terrible.

It was very windy, terribly overcast. And we realized it was the weather was getting worse and we would, we just wanted to bash through. We were starving and we thought, no, we're not going to do it. So we stopped and we were 35 miles from the port, which doesn't seem very far, but when you're kiting, obviously it's quite, it takes some effort.

And anyway, the next morning we got up and the weather still wasn't very good. And anyway, we powered in with our small kites. It was very overcast. And there's a camp there, ALE, the Antarctic Logistics and Expedition, who run most things in Antarctica. Very brilliant. They have a camp actually quite close to the actual South Pole proper.

And as I said, it was very overcast and it was blowing a hoolie. And we got to the ski right up to the mess tent, which is like a nun. And some guy came out fully covered up with goggles. And there Jamie and I were with our kites blazing like this. And we were covered in snow and they were like, what are you doing?

And we were like.  And he went, is that you Justin? I went, yes. And they were like, you're nutter. You've kited, you've both kited in this.  Anyway, fantastic. And then 15 minutes later, we were tucking into about four steaks and 16 eggs.  Yeah, it was amazing. Amazing feeling, actually, as we said, right at the beginning, you step into these things.

And when you finish them, you realize the power of.  What you can do and how magnificent the human is really, actually. And there are masses of people who are part of that success. Uh, Jamie being obviously a very important one, but my family, Jamie's family, and all the, everyone at NASA, everyone, we were sponsored by HP who were just.

Fantastic. Oh, fantastic. All the scientists, all the Garmin and all these just mass Rolex, a massive brilliant organizations who take this stuff really seriously. And they really fuel Wunderlist and people's passion for going and seeing and getting involved. 

It's fantastic. Congratulations. It's phenomenal.

That's very 

kind. Uh, 

and it's interesting to, to understand what happens with all the data because let's see, I'm a bit of a data nerd myself. I do work in IT and I've had conversations with other people about.  Previous guests, for example, Terry Virts, who was an astronaut,  spent a lot of time in the International Space Center and understanding the dynamics of what happens to the human body when you put people into these extreme environments.

And I think there's a study or there's about to be an experiment, I think, by NASA where they're planning to put people into a small equivalent of a studio apartment for two and a half years. To test to recreate what could be the journey out to Mars. Yeah, you may be playing a small part in that overall journey, because I can imagine some of the data points that have been captured in Antarctica.

Yeah, and that will probably feed in. Yeah, 

I think more than a small part. Actually, I think data it's been looked at, obviously, but a lot of the analysis of the physical analysis of saliva, our blood, our poo, our pee and stuff, uh, that. takes a lot of time. But rather interestingly, the physical aspect is one thing.

But I think more important is the psychological aspect. So we did a big psychological study out of the Central Florida University. And every day we did a test basically with our phones, where the camera looks at our irises, and we had to go through a series of tests and then talk about our day.  And Jamie is a military as well, and when Jamie was doing it, I'd listen to him.

And basically at the end, you'd talk about your day. And very rarely did we not have a day when we were scared out of our, literally, senseless. But it's not our first rodeo, and we laughed about it. And I'd listen to Jamie. After you'd finished your day, we tended to kite for about eight hours. And when we started, just as a sort of slight backstory,  What you normally do if you're manhauling is you stop after an hour and a half, sit on your pulk with your back to the wind and you have a quick something hot and some nuts and chocolate and then you crack on and you stop for about five minutes just to keep fueling.

And what we realized, we tried to do that when we started, we thought we'd go for two hours, put our kites down and then eat something and have a quick drink and then off we go again.  Snow kites, you don't blow them up. They're not a cell that they're just open. They've got open fabric cells and they have masses of lines.

And as the kites come down, you drop them, they tangle. And then we'd spend like an hour or an hour and a half trying to untangle them. And we had to take our big mitts off. And so we'd have problems with our fingers and stuff.  The long and short is after trying various things, we realized the best thing to do was just go. 

So we would go. We, once we launched our kites in the morning and set off, we go for between six and eight hours nonstop  every day.  And so after a while, everything hurts and you're bored and then.  After a month, and this is the month because we had about 10 days at Russian base called Novo when we were preparing everything.

So we'd been on the ice for about two weeks in fact. And suddenly all our podcasts, our books and our music stopped. Because Spotify and audio and all of these things, unless you go onto Wi Fi.  They just stop. So suddenly we lost everything. So psychologically, and that's a funny thing. If you have to entertain yourself for eight hours when you're already you're bored and you're in pain.

And  so it was psychologically, it was quite an interesting thing when I listened to Jamie. So we'd have these hellish days and then at the end you'd have to give like a two minute spiel. It was a day. And I'd listened to Jamie. It was like, You and him were in the pub, all the three of us were in the pub, we said, yeah, it was a great day, we, yeah, kiting, it was super fun, and then, yeah, we put the tent up, and, and then we, yeah, had some cocoa, and played some backgammon, and it sounded like we were on holiday.

Anyway, so we both did, Jamie would say the same about me, and then when we came back. Because the study was very clever because they were monitoring your iris and and your your tone the guy who was running it who's a guy called ben who's fantastic uh an american and He was like It's just it's extraordinary because when we put that against your stats of because obviously all our stats What they knew what was happening during the day and when our heart rate went up and our sleep levels and  and I think again It comes back to training.

We've just done it a lot. And yeah, it's a very interesting It's fascinating, and it will be useful. Yeah, the power 

of positive thinking and that positive mentality and the discipline is fantastic. 

Yeah, I think that's a very good point. Positive mental attitude, as Carol Dwert did, is  It's absolutely phenomenal.

If you can look at everything with some kind of golden optimism, that is clever. It's a clever thing to do. It's very helpful. Did 

you do any, or did you get, you or Jamie get any brain or MRI or CT scans pre and post expedition on that as well? No. Nothing like that? 

Funnily enough, I did have one a few months before, before I go on any of my trips, I do a really very comprehensive medical, which I do at a sort of health screening at a place called Lumen in London, which is the world's best.

And they do all of that. 

Yeah. Excellent. How does it feel looking back on that? Did it meet your objectives personally, as well as what you wanted to do for NASA and the European space agency? A hundred percent.  

Yeah. And some, it was a proper  Old school adventure daft idea full of everything that you could ever imagine highs and lows And I did it with a very good mate of mine and a very inspirational chap We had an amazing team behind us and around us and we were doing something helpful and useful and That's always try and do something.

And I don't say this in a dictatorial way, but it's just so rewarding  to do something which is not necessarily about you. You know, anyone who does these kind of trips is going to have quite a big ego  because they feel that they can go and do it. And I'm a big advocate for that. That's not a bad thing, as long as it's not Machiavellian or macabre. 

When you realize that actually, as I said to you before, passion and desire around change, really be a change maker, try and make people sit up, but whoever it is, I do a lot of talks at schools,  which I really love doing. And I just think.  If you can get one person, one boy or girl to sit up and go, God, I remember this daft guy  coming and talking to me about some, and it inspired me to go and do something.

And it doesn't have to be  of enormous proportions. It doesn't have to be an Everest. It can be anything. And I think a really important part of where we are today and something I want to take on more and more is to inspire and hopefully ignite youth  to want to go and make a difference. Not want to go to feel that they have the ability to do whatever they want to do or what they dream of wanting to do, even if they don't feel they have the means.

And there's an interesting thing around resource and resourcefulness. And, you know, lots of people have said to me in my journey, you had the resources to go and do this. You had the time, you had the money, you had the experience, that's baloney. And even if I did, That doesn't matter because what you actually need is to be resourceful for what it means is that you're passionate you're creative You find a way against the odds and you will make it happen And and that is what you have to fuel and hopefully empower people to go and believe And if you do my god, it's such a colorful journey.

I look at my life and as I said, I feel So blessed. I've met extraordinary people along my journey, and I've seen and done amazing things. It's phenomenal. And as I said, I'm not really very good at anything. I've become better, obviously. 

Yeah. You're singing my tune, Justin. I couldn't agree more. And it's the mission for this podcast. 

If anyone listens and it plants a seed of adventure, it doesn't need to be climbing Everest or going across Antarctica. It could be. Much more scaled down or it could be as grand as that, but just to get people thinking, get the wheels turning, reach out, open doors, make things happen, do good things for yourself and for the world.

It's and particularly with youth. You're doing a great job, Chris. Thank you.  Thank you. I mean, I do get the odd message from time to time. It's only I haven't even been going a year yet. There's been. A handful of people, and I would say it is only a handful of people that I've reached out to say they have actually taken on board advice from some of the episodes and the guests and have actually done things and are planning things and are doing things with their kids as well, which fills me with pride and I hope it continues and people listen and take action.

You keep doing it. Yeah, you keep doing it. Look, I think that with all these things, it starts with belief and understanding that you can do stuff.  And then it goes into when you look at how you manifest that. It comes down to things like motivation. Decisions that we take today will define your Literally.

And you work hard and suddenly you're tired and you think, Oh, I should go and exercise and now I can't be bothered. Go and exercise. It'll make a difference. And it's hard. It's a hard thing to say. And then the other thing, which I just think is really important.  And it's like slightly crass, but  strive for excellence.

Really.  Strive to be the best version of yourself and as Steve Jobs said  Be a yardstick of quality and he's right and within organizations that creates loyalty trust Integrity fuels teamwork all of those things But finally and you I think With all the trips I do, understand that it must be fun. Even when you're against the kosh really, Mother Nature is a very powerful adversary.

And to do that, it starts, and this is absolutely imperative, by looking after yourself. Your well being, your exercise, your, your sleep, your stress levels, and all of those things, it's imperative, and to fuel all of that, enjoy yourself, really enjoy yourself. And 

allow yourself to enjoy it, even from the inception of the idea, from it kicking around your head, from it writing it down, the first conversation that you have with someone, the planning, they're looking at maps, they're looking at the logistics, just enjoy it.

Yeah. Which is, as we said, is. 

Yeah, and also the other thing I think, Chris, which is important, is get involved. Get involved with things which make a difference. Climate change is a real thing, and look, there's masses of things. People bang the drum about various things. Volunteer. I'm involved, I'm a deputy lieutenant in London and I'm, we're getting really involved in it.

Trying to make volunteering a cool thing again. Um, and  I don't know, you always feel good, you'll feel better. It's all, listen, it's really exciting and it's very, just outside your front door is a adventure playground and all of it will benefit you and endorphins will seep through you and make you smile and make you feel better.

And 

nothing's off limits. If there's something, anyone that's listening or watching that, if it's a sport or a, An adventure that you've never tried before, you're scared to do it. Then find someone, whether it's like yourself Justin, or reach out, anyone. Just ask questions and try and open doors and tell yourself no, just go after it.

Yeah, life is so short, and it's not guaranteed. 

Well,  as we said, you've got one life. Learn, grow, and grow. Push, experience, love, all of those things, get involved, really get involved. 

Switching lanes a little bit. Do you want to tell us or introduce Euro Experiences and your company? Is that your own adventure company that you're a partner with?

Yeah, there's three of us. It's called Euro Experiences. We're one of the first B Corp travel companies in the world. It's an absolutely fantastic setup and we take people off. To go and see not just unusual things, but fill their dreams really. And yeah, it's super fun. It's about six years old now and we're growing very quickly, but our message is always around sustainable.

We're a carbon neutral countries at company and yeah. It's very exciting. It's very exciting. And then my wife and I have a jewellery business called Deroma. 

Yeah, yeah, keeping you busy then? Yeah, 

well look, I, I, I think, you know, business is, is, is fascinating. It's a fascinating thing and yeah, again, get involved and try and craft things in a really substantially important way.

Look after everyone and be responsible.  putting your best foot forward and taking everyone with you. 

In terms of the future, Justin, are there any big unrealized  adventures or expeditions?  that you've got in the pipeliner that you would like to do, either solo  or as a team? 

I'm looking at trying to kite surf across the Atlantic, which is quite complicated, which I've been looking at for a while, so that  with Duro, we're growing very quickly and we crisscross the globe really doing really fun things.

So that side of my adventurous curiosity is very much fueled.  And I found that what's fun about it is it's now opening other people's eyes to it, which I'm really enjoying. Actually, it's a really nice.  Very privileged position to be in, but there's so much to see, whether it's sailing or diving or skiing, it's, there's just a lot there and to see the wonderment and enjoyment of people growing and learning and having their eyes opened.

The coast of Antarctica, which I've been down to a few times, is phenomenal. It's just when you see beaches full of elephant seals. Millions of penguins and orcas going up and down the beach and all living in a very symbiotic food web and you can wander around and they're not scared of you. They're not anything because you don't affect them.

And the reason That it is a balanced equilibrium ecosystem is because we, we aren't involved. However, some of the aspects around climate change are really starting to have an effect. The amount of microbiomes in the ocean, the krill, the That's all dying off and it's having a huge effect and there's masses of stories like this, all the plastic and stuff.

So yeah, I'm just going to keep doing what I do really, which, as I said before, very humble to be able to go and do, and hopefully I can make a bit more noise around people  sitting up and wanting to get involved and  understand and. Respect, uh, how we have to look after this phenomenal planet that we live on, um, and nurture.

And, uh, so yeah, it's all, it's all very exciting. It's all very exciting. Excellent.  

I love your passion for it. It's brilliant. It doesn't seem like it's dying. It seems like it's still very much alive, which is fantastic. I hope to be still as  hopefully still be as inspired and excited, uh, in my later years as well.

So  You will. I'm sure you will. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, in fact, I no doubt I will be, because I'm trying to plant these seeds in my daughter as well, and she's very young, so she will continue to drag me. As I am dragging her along in my adventures, she will be dragging me along, in hers no doubt. 

Yeah, good. 

Wonderful. So I have two closing traditions on this show, Justin,  one of which is a pay it forward suggestion. So a recommendation for a worthy cause or a charitable project or something that may be important or dear to you. Sustainability has come up a couple of times as well. And then a call to adventure, which is the.

opportunity to raise a suggestion for an activity, an adventure, or a place to get people inspired to go and do something a bit more adventurous. So let's start with a pay it forward suggestion. What would you say to that? If I may, 

I've got two. And the first is you're absolutely right, is around climate change.

And it's not per se pointing to an organization because there's lots of good ones out there, but it's really pointing. At us all as individuals, because the problem is vast, really. And it's not insurmountable. That's the most important thing to understand. And it's not really about pointing the finger at the perpetrators.

The important thing is to understand that the perpetrators are now trying to sort the problem out as more knowledge comes in.  But the truth is, we as a collective are very powerful. There's billions of us.  And if we can start just doing a small amount of stuff ourselves, recycling, turning lights off, be it just common sense, basic things that momentum will make a difference.

And I think if we can get people to sit up and you just have to Google it, just Google. What can I do in my home? There's stuff and it doesn't take investment, it doesn't, it's just day to day things. And really run with it and be positive and proactive around that stuff.  The second for me, uh, is very much around youth.

Uh, wounded veterans is a big thing and, but there's lots going on there, walking with the wounded health heroes. There's masses of wonderful organizations.  But the other thing I think which is very important now is to get the next generation really excited around,  Prospects and making a difference, stepping up, being accountable, all of that stuff.

And it can go through again, a whole plethora of things from schools to youth groups. I think youth groups are absolutely brilliant.  I think we need to really invest in them and get more people who are in slightly more  deprived situations to know that there are entities that they can go and start learning some of these life skills, which will help them forge a way out of sometimes quite difficult situations.

And I think.  I'm not answering your question  specifically. I am being quite generalistic around the two areas, but they're both really important and  however you sit within either of those, or with both of them, hopefully, that will make a difference. It will make a proper difference. And we all know people who are remarkably  weaving their way into the world.

being positive, being proactive, and setting up things which are really inspiring. Every street will have someone who is just pretty amazing. So yeah, those are the two things. If I may, I would like to put a marker in the sand. 

Fantastic. And I like the idea about Just reminding ourselves about what we can do at home.

A bugbear of mine is lights in the house and things being switched on that shouldn't be. So simple things like that. So I think that's given us a good idea to maybe create a little bit of a quick start guide for people that are, that can do stuff at home or within their local area that can help contribute to even saving energy, for example.

So thank you.  And finally, a call to adventure. So what would your call to adventure be, Justin? 

Again, I think it's a fantastic question. I would like to  put out there the fact of doing something which you haven't done before, whatever it might be, whatever age you might be.  And I live by a fantastic, uh, saying from a German philosopher called Goethe. 

And he had this wonderful saying, which is quite powerful. Whatever you believe you can do or dream you can do, begin it.  Boldness has genius, magic, and power in it. And that is fantastic because it's true.  It is so true. Just start something. You might at the moment. I'm getting into flying is going, which is going to be my new love  and I'm a baby pilot.

So I'm just learning and there's, and it's a, I kick myself every day. So I want to learn the guitar and I just don't spend enough time on it, but do it. And if I don't do it, it upsets me. If I do 10 minutes, it makes me so happy. And it can be anything and it's always difficult. This and all this stuff is difficult kicking your ass.

And I've always thought that the things you learn in the army is discipline plus effort equals. I'm going to feel amazing, but I'm going to feel amazing is further down the line and I've done this for so long now. So if I train in the morning, I get up quite early and train in the morning and  I now as soon as I wake up, I know I'll feel amazing in a second.

So I need the discipline and effort and I just go and do it. So.  I think, yeah, push people into  do something which you dream you can do, but just think, I can't do it. It's not on my remit. It's not, I haven't got the, but that resourcefulness aspect will come in and only good will come of it and no bad at all.

Yeah. Throw yourself out. 

Nobody ever regretted a workout and being bold, being bold is, yeah, that's, it's just. Go and do it. Just take the chance and what's the people are often scared of like the repercussions or someone saying no. Someone says no to you. They're going to forget about you in five minutes anyway.

So why not just ask and they may say yes, you don't consume their thoughts all day every day. So if you get an idea and an adventure or whatever, it may be bold. Go for it. 

Yeah, fine words. Yeah, funny enough. You've just reminded me of a funny thing that Charlie Chaplin, the comedian in the 1930s, said that the six best doctors he's ever known are sun, rest, exercise, diet, self respect,  How clever is that?

Oh, that's brilliant. Excellent. Excellent to go Charlie Chaplin. This has been wonderful, Justin. Thank you ever so much for your time. We haven't even scratched the surface on some of this stuff that you've done, but I do thank you for your time. I'm very passionate about it. Absolutely. And everything and what you've done there with Jamie is, is brilliant and it's contributing to the greater good of our planet and where we want to take the next frontiers in space.

So thank you. Excellent. 

Thank you, Chris. And you keep doing all the sterling stuff you're doing. It's important. And yeah, maybe in a handful of years I can come back on and Absolutely. 

Absolutely. Let's do that. You'll have an open invite and I look forward to it.  

Excellent. 

Thank you. 

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode.

For the show notes and further information, please visit adventurediaries. com slash podcast. And finally. We hope to have inspired you to take action and plan your next adventure, big or small, because sometimes we all need a little adventure to cleanse that bitter taste of life from the soul. Until next time, have fun and keep paying it forward.