Gerhard Czerner: Mountain Biking Down Kilimanjaro & Crossing Glaciers of the Karakoram

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Gerhard Czerner: Biking Down Kilimanjaro and Across the Glaciers of the Karakoram

In this extraordinary episode of Adventure Diaries, we meet Gerhard Czerner—mountain biker, climber, and master of taking two wheels where no trail exists. Gerhard has redefined what’s possible in adventure travel, combining a childhood love for biking with a fearless passion for mountaineering. From the icy peaks of the Karakoram to the volcanic slopes of Kilimanjaro, he carries not just his gear—but powerful stories of human connection, resilience, and the wild joy of doing something no one else has dared to try.

Gerhard shares the inside story of his expedition to Pakistan’s legendary Karakoram range, where he carried his mountain bike across shifting glaciers, icy scree, and towering passes with over 22 kilograms on his back. The terrain was brutal, unpredictable, and often completely unrideable. But what he found—aside from a few precious ice highways to ride—was something far greater: deep friendships with local porters, cultural exchange, and surreal moments like fixing a jeep’s broken brakes with cow milk.

We also dive into the incredible tale of Gerhard’s descent of Mount Kilimanjaro—after securing the first-ever official permit to ride down Africa’s highest peak. Alongside biking legends Hans Rey and Danny MacAskill, Gerhard pushed through sleepless nights, high-altitude training (including a tent in his bedroom!), and a 1,000-meter gravel climb to the summit. What followed was one of the most exhilarating descents on Earth—5,000 vertical meters from glacier to jungle.

But these stories go far beyond terrain and altitude. Gerhard’s adventures are driven by a belief that bikes are bridges—connecting people across language and culture, bringing joy to remote communities, and leaving lasting impacts. Whether it’s teaching porters in Pakistan how to ride, or helping a local agency launch bike tourism in Tanzania, Gerhard’s legacy is one of storytelling, generosity, and bold curiosity.

This episode is a celebration of what happens when you follow your passion, carry your bike into the unknown, and embrace the adventure waiting on the other side.

Watch, listen, and be inspired to carry your own adventure forward.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Mountain Biking Misadventures
• 1:08 Welcome to the Adventure Diaries
• 1:28 Meet Gerhard Czerner
• 3:20 Early Life and Passion for Biking
• 5:20 Combining Biking and Mountaineering
• 8:55 Breakthrough Adventure in Morocco
• 9:59 Facing K2: The Karakoram Challenge
• 14:00 Planning and Preparation for Karakoram
• 17:24 The Team and Local Guides
• 20:35 Cultural Exchange and Local Challenges
• 28:59 Safety Concerns and Unexpected Solutions
• 31:35 Dodgy Vehicles and Worrisome Journeys
• 32:00 Plans to Return to Pakistan
• 32:33 Switching Lanes to Africa
• 33:17 Mountain Biking on Kilimanjaro
• 34:42 Acclimatization and Training
• 37:32 Climatic Challenges on Kilimanjaro
• 41:09 Summit Success and the Ride Down
• 44:08 Reflections on the Adventure
• 46:48 Future Biking Adventures
• 48:36 Cultural Connections and Giving Back
• 52:40 Call to Adventure and Final Thoughts

Transcript

 So we asked him every day, like, Oh, what do you think is the terrain for biking? Pretty often he was like, Oh, too easy. No problem. No problem. A lot of biking.  And then if we carried around the bike for, I don't know, maybe six hours or seven hours, sometimes we ask him like, Isak, this is not good for biking.

There is no biking at all. So he was looking at us with a big smile and he told us, you know. This is no city. This is a mountain adventure. We started at nine o'clock in the evening, and then we went to the pass. We climbed up the pass. So we had to be on top of the pass like six o'clock in the morning. So we climbed the whole night.

So you need warm clothes, big gloves, proper shoes, crampons. We need a harness. We had Jumas to hold on the fixed ropes and everything. And yeah, this was some kind of hard, to be honest.  Of course, they repaired the car. But they don't have any brake fluid or whatever. They just put milk into the brake because this works the same way  

What? 

Really? They went into the kitchen, put some cow milk And they just went out and filled it up into the break.  

Welcome to the Adventure Diaries podcast, where we share tales of adventure, connection, and exploration. From the smallest of creators to the larger than life adventurers, we hope their stories inspire you to go create your own extraordinary adventures.

And now your host, Chris Watson.  

Welcome to another episode of the Adventure Diaries. Today, we're joined by Gerhard Czerner, a mountain biker, climber, and fantastic storyteller, who has taken two wheels to some of the most adventurous parts of the planet.  The journey has taken him across glaciers, deserts, and some of the world's highest peaks. 

He's carried his bike through the Karakorum to reach the base of K2. And in Africa, he helped secure the first official permit to ride down Kilimanjaro. After scaling the summit, a descent of over 5, 000 meters that redefined what's possible on a mountain bike. Whether it's battling altitude sickness in the Karakoram, riding across the glaciers of Kyrgyzstan, or teaching local porters how to ride a bike for the first time in Pakistan. 

Gerhard has a real way of turning every expedition into a cultural exchange.  Fixing brake failures with milk or carrying a mountain bike across the Himalayas maybe isn't as crazy as it sounds. Or is it? What a fantastic episode this is. So settle in and enjoy this fantastic conversation with Gerhard Czerner.

Gerhard Czerner, welcome to the Adventure Diaries. How are you? 

Thank you very much for the invitation, Chris. I'm happy to be here and lucky and looking forward for the talk. 

Excellent. Yeah, likewise. So captivated by some of your adventures, some of which we'll come on to, particularly what you've done in the Karakorum and in Kilimanjaro.

It's amazing and I'm so excited. So thank you for giving up your time today. The frame for today is really two, you know, mountain biking adventures in the Karakorum and then You've done two mountains back to back, I believe, in Africa, so Mount Kenya and then Kilimanjaro. But before we jump forward into the adventures, Gerhard, I would like to kind of roll back a little bit and understand more about You, your upbringing, you know, in Augsburg, Germany, and what led you into that life of adventure?

What made you pick up a mountain bike? 

Well, actually, I did a lot of biking back during school time, every afternoon, and I was thinking only about biking all the time, and not that much about school, to be honest. Um, so even after school, I started education as a bike mechanic. Because, yeah, this was the only topic I thought about.

And I started also doing some trials biking. So I was jumping around through obstacles everywhere in the city. And pretty soon I came into competing. So I rode some competitions in Germany and in Austria. And Yeah on some point this was some kind of successful and I liked it very much to be honest and I did some shows some trial shows so I jumped at some yeah festivals for example every weekend I jumped around and I thought well that's much cooler than staying in the bike shop, to be honest.

And so I stopped after my education, working in the garage, working in the bike shop and yeah, tried to ride my bike as much as possible. And so I came into something, what you call maybe a bike model. So, so some magazines booked me to be in front of the camera for some testings or even for some travel stories.

So I was in front of the camera with my bike. And even if I think back, the first time I jumped into a plane was because of, uh, bike trip. So the bike really opens up the world for me. So we did never, yeah, jumped into a plane because of holiday with my parents or something like this. It was really because of the biking.

And so the world opens up for me with my bike. And during that I got more and more and got in touch with photographers, filmmakers, and things like this. So I was in front of the camera quite a lot during that time. And then there was a point, I thought, okay, well, maybe I jumped around too much on my bike, maybe, because just biking is, I mean, there is one point you get bored of, and it was the same to me, so I started climbing and mountaineering and alpinism and things like this, so I was traveling Mainly because of alpinism, so I climbed a lot, like sports climbing, bouldering, big wall climbing, Josemite Valley.

I climbed a lot of 000 meter peaks, and this is my background in alpinism. And later on, I thought it's time to combine these two interests of myself, to get more into the mountains with my bike, but don't miss the summits, not just go around on the foot of the hills, but also go on to a summit with my bike.

What I actually did a lot in the Alps, but not like in Africa or some other places. Yeah, this was the beginning actually for my passion to go and pick mountains together with my bike. 

Yeah. So did you start out with a passion for biking, then switch to mountaineering, and then combine mountaineering  and biking together?

Yeah, exactly. That's the way it was. So there was really a short time. a short period of time. I didn't ride that much just for guiding and for some photoshops, but yeah, it was too much biking in the beginning to be honest. So I was really into climbing a lot and this was my focus. And I started working in the climbing gym and everything.

So whenever I do something, I do it really intense. And this was the Climbing and alpinism time and then after this, more or less what I do today is the combination of those two interests. 

Yeah, fantastic. And are you doing this full time Gerhard at the moment or have you got other side interests? 

I try to do it full time. 

I work a little bit in the marketing for a German backpack brand, but most of the time I try to, yeah, do my project, try to cut my videos. Sell my stories to different magazines and things like this. So I hope it works. And yeah, I'm still very lucky that it runs like this. It's a big privilege. 

Yeah. So rolling back a little bit then in terms of early influences, did you see this as a career path?

Or was there anyone you looked up to? Because I know you've done some work with like Hans Ray, for example, well known in the industry and obviously a big part of the Kilimanjaro adventure. But when you were a kid, is this what you wanted to be? Or did it just kind of happen to you because of your interest in biking?

So there was never a plan, to be honest.  It's 

always the way. It was the way. It's always the 

way. It was always the way, yeah. I mean, I love biking and there was nothing else in my head, so I just biked around and jumped around. And during my early trials riding time, I watched the videos of Hans Rey.

Because, I mean, he was the man in Trials Riding, so, and I had his book, and watched him riding around, so, he was a big inspiration for me in terms of Trials Riding. And, now there was never a plan, and I always thought, okay, now it works, and I can earn some money with my shows, and riding bikes, and Whenever I'm 30, I will do a proper job.

And then I was 30. I thought, Oh, well, maybe in 40, I do a proper job, but now I'm close to 50. I think hopefully I will never have to do a proper job. So no, there was no plan at all. Like it just comes, I think if you go with the flow, if you go with the feeling you have and with your heart, with your passion, then it comes.

Just like naturally, I think. I don't know if this is for everybody, but for me, it feels like this. 

Yeah. Fantastic. What was your breakthrough adventure or the first thing that kind of got you onto the scene in front of the magazines and stuff? What was that first adventure before we talk about the two adventures?

Well, actually, this was a trip to Africa, to Morocco. So my idea was going up to Chibutupkal, which is the highest point of the high Atlas mountains. And I was there before with my snowboard. But we couldn't do any snowboarding because there was no snow. And in this,  and on this summit day, because there was a lack of snow, we saw the trail going down there.

And I thought, well, this could be a proper downhill trail for mountain biking. And this idea I put into my pocket for at least 12 years. And after 12 years I thought, okay, maybe it's time to try to do this, to carry my bike up there and try to ride down there. And this was actually the first adventure. I also tried to write an article for magazines and I booked a photographer.

Yeah, so this was something like the beginning of telling my own stories, telling my own adventures. And it worked quite well, to be honest. So we had like 15 up to 18 magazines printed our story out there. And I thought, wow! The people are interested with what we are doing there. So wow, cool. So let's do it again.

And on that very subject, then switching into one of the two expedition adventures that I wanted to touch on is Facing K2. So your mountain biking journey through the Karakoram range, 5000 plus meters, which was printed. in sidetrack magazine and most recently in the voyages book as well. So firstly, congratulations.

It's a fantastic for the recognition and it's a wonderful story as well as an epic adventure. So 

thank you very much. 

Amazing. So on that Gerhard, I mean, I think the thing that struck me, you know, you had to carry your bike quite a bit through that, you know, 14, 20 kilograms. It sounded torturous at times, but do you want to just maybe talk us through your objectives of That Karakoram mountain biking adventure.

Yeah, that was something, I would say, it's like a dream of my childhood, because I was reading stories about mountaineering people and climbers, and so you have all the stories, they climb K2 and they climb the Trango Towers, those steep granite needles. Surrounded by big glaciers and everything, so this was always a dream to go there.

In the beginning I thought to go climbing there, but this never happened. My climbing today is not that good like it was, to be honest.  And so I thought, yeah, well, maybe there could be a chance to ride my bike there, because I wanted to see K2. This was the big goal. I wanted to go to K2. This was a childhood dream.

And so I had a look at the typical ways to go there and the typical ways to go up the Baltoro Glacier. But, yeah, I knew, okay, so maybe this is a bit because of acclimatization, and there are a lot of rocks on the glacier, so maybe not a good idea to bike up there. And there is something like a route, it's called the Big Karakorum Trekking, where people usually come from Askole to Hushe, hitting up the Baltoro Glacier, and then going up to Gondogorula, which is the highest pass, and back to Hushe.

So, I thought, well, for biking, it's the best thing to do this the other way around. So, to climb up steep, and high and then have to descend on the Baltoro Glacier. And so this was the trip, what we tried to do, or what we did, actually. Turned out that it's not that much biking,  like we hoped.  

Yeah, I mean, the video is, I watched it again this morning, just in preparation, but I've watched it a couple of times.

It's wonderful. It's quite short, but it really brings it to life. I mean, you look at the glacier fields and the terrain just looked horrendous to kind of navigate. What was that like? Did you ride much on some of that ice or not? 

Depends on the section. So in the beginning, before the pass, the first glacier we went up to, it's yeah, like rock covered glacier and it was uphill and because of acclimatization, there was not so much riding.

But once we crossed the pass. There was, yeah, one day, or maybe it's now half a day, with a lot of pushing because the glacier was covered with snow. And we reached this point around 11 o'clock maybe or 10 o'clock and the snow was already soft so we couldn't ride on a hard surface. It was just like pushing the bike through soft snow and everything.

But then there was a part, the upper Baltoro Glacier, this was amazing for riding because there was Ice. There were no rocks on the ice. And it's like a huge highway of ice surrounded by six, seven, 8,000 meter peaks and to cycle down there, that was, uh, a unique experience. It was unbelievable. And after Concordia, this is the main place where you have the few to K two and Broad Peak and all the big mountains from there.

Back to  was some kind of ridings and pushing and everything because they. Glacier again is very rocky. It's not like ice ice. I mean there are rocks everywhere and it looks very a lot of ups and downs So it's like a few meters up then you go down to some glacier lakes a little bit Then you have to climb up again.

So it's not like there is a flow in terms of biking. So it was More pushing than biking.  

So what I'm fascinated about and interested in is how you went about preparing and planning for that because you did touch on that you done it probably the opposite way from the way that people would naturally trek.

So how much of that was mapped out? Did you have like satellite imagery or because I imagined terrain would probably change by the seasons, the climate and I imagine it would be quite dynamic. So how did you approach the planning of that terrain and mapping out the sections? 

Well, the section is pretty clear because  People and I do have a lot of friends.

They are good mountaineers and they went there for mountaineering, like Broad Peak and Gashapon one and two. So I asked some colleagues what they think because they already know what I'm capable to do on a bike, what I can do with my bike. So I asked them what they think, and more or less they told me the same thing what you did right now, like yes, this season it was good, but the other season it changed, so it's not predictable, it's not like you can count on old pictures or old movies from other people, because it changes, the glacier moves, and it's not like a static system, it moves all the time, it's dynamic, and yeah, it was a big question, if it's possible or not, and the range was Let's say like there will be 90 percent of writing till there will be no writing at all  So we really didn't know what to expect and it was a matter of just do it try it And I was so deep into this idea to go to the K2 and maybe have some Biking there in front of K2 and the Concordia that I thought okay, let's go there and have a look So I saw some pictures they motivated me and up to Gondogorilla I knew that there are fixed ropes and it's not really climbing, but they're fixed ropes and the people repel down.

So I knew that this is going to be pretty steep, but yeah, I hoped that the Baltoro Glacier could be at least some riding.  

So for someone that doesn't do mountain biking, talk us through your equipment in your bike, because what was going through my head is how sturdy  is the bike and the equipment and the spares for such rugged terrain.

Now, I know the bikes are built for that, but looking at the glacier and the rock and stuff, did you have to really plan out for potential repairs or damage? What was that like in terms of your equipment? 

The bikes are usual enduro bikes. It was nothing special. It was the bikes like we do right back in our home places.

And for sure you have to prepare for a lot of damages or whatever happens there, but If you go there with a well prepared bike, usually it's not that bad to be honest. For sure you have a flat tire or whatever, but that's usual things. And like I told you before, I'm a bike mechanic and usually we know how to fix and how to repair.

And on this trip, we only had two flat tires, I think, nothing else. But we didn't bike that much.  Well, yeah. Maybe that's the reason.  

So in terms of your team then, who was your friend that you biked with on that journey? Because there were two of you, weren't there? 

Exactly. We were two people on the bike. It was Jakob Breitwiese, a friend of mine from Freiburg.

We'd never been on a big trip before, but I knew him from several small day trips and several technical courses. And I knew he's a very good rider. He's also into trice biking a little bit, and he's also a climber, so I knew, okay, so he's interested in alpinism and also in biking, and he's a very funny guy, and he's really, really strong and fit, so I thought, well, this could match pretty good.

Then there was Martin Bissig, the photographer and filmer. He is part of my trip since the first one we talked before, since Maroc. So we are together since 15 years now, and we do a lot of  Different trips all over the world, so he was taking the pictures, but he didn't bring his bike, so he was by feet, because usually in this kind of terrain, his speed is not much more slowly than us, so he was without bikes, and we didn't do this by ourselves, so it's necessary in this region to have a guide, because you need a permit and everything, so we had a guide, um, Isak, And in the beginning, we had a small team of four people.

They helped us carrying a bit of the equipment, like food and tents and everything. Because we stayed out there for 11 days. And it wouldn't have been possible for us to carry all the equipment by ourselves for 11 days, especially not the food and everything. With our day pack and the bike we had to carry, at least we had about 20 up to 22 kg every day to carry. 

Yeah, no chance without the help of those people. They helped us a lot and in this region all the people are go with a small group of porters and with a guide. Even it's necessary because you need the permit. So, yeah, I'm very lucky to have them on board because they were really tough and great people.

So, they were really a big, big part of this trip. 

Yeah. From reading the article and Isaac seemed like a bit of a character, 60 years old, but inshallah, God willing, whenever you asked about the terrain or the weather, what was he like in reality? Exactly 

what you told.  He was a very good character. So, and he told us he's 60 plus.

He didn't know his age, to be honest. He was quite a tough man. He knew the area pretty well. But of course, he didn't have any idea about mountain biking. So we asked him every day like, Oh, what do you think is the terrain for biking? Pretty often he was like, oh, too easy. No problem. No problem. A lot of biking. 

And then if we carried around the bike for, I don't know, maybe six hours or seven hours, sometimes we ask him like, Isak, This is not good for biking. This is, there is no biking at all. And then he always came up with a very good phrase I will never forget. So he was looking at us with a big smile and he told us, You know, this is no city.

This is a mountain adventure.  He was right. I mean, that was what we were looking for. And yeah, we had a really good time with him. Without him, no chance. Really no chance. 

Yeah. They must have been scratching their heads to see three guys wanting to bike that. I mean, it's probably not been seen before in that area, so it's crazy.

I also read something about, did you teach some of the porters to ride a bike as well on that trip? 

Yes, of course. At the beginning, they were pretty shy. I mean, I think, actually, like Isaac, they didn't know what to expect, because stupid people from Europe carrying their bikes on a glacier, I mean, what to expect,  and I think they just wanted to have a look what we do out there, but we got a really, really good connection, we talked a lot, and yeah, we got like a friendship, even if there was a little bit of language border in between us, but we had a pretty good connection.

Excellent. Whenever there was time, they asked us if they can ride our bikes because they don't have any mountain bikes, but they know how to balance the bike because they do ride motorcycles. So it was pretty easy for them to go on the bikes and we had one special afternoon when we did some technical training together with them.

and they were freaking out. They did races, they jumped over small rocks and it was big smiles on human faces and of great love and we all forget about the stressful and the hard times and yeah it was so great and you would never have this without a bike. If you don't carry a bike there you don't have these moments, you don't have this experience.

We were pretty lucky about that. 

It sounds like they're made of tough stuff as well. I also read something about When you were on, I think on the ice or might have been in the snow, but these guys were wearing socks over their shoes almost as like. makeshift crampons as well and they were still keeping up with you on the ropes.

I mean, that's pretty incredible. 

This is incredible. I mean, the equipment they have is nothing to compare with our equipment. Yeah. The situation with the thoughts is like, usually they come down the pass. Like I told you before, there are fixed ropes in the air, so they repel down and There's some ice in the pass and it's, yeah, pretty steep.

So if you go up there, you really have to use your hands. So it's not like walking. It's some, some, some sort of little climbing. So if they go down, they pretty often just have. Not even proper boots. They have like Crocs rubber shoes, whatever we use for gardening not for climbing in the mountains and They use socks above their shoes to not slide on the ice.

So it's like Pakistani and crampons and Yeah, there was a funny story and it's really unbelievable because they carry those huge loads down this steep pass with the socks over the shoes and we were just like no it's not possible  i have a big respect for them for the people there really they do a great job the porters that's unbelievable 

yeah and setting your camps up and stuff in that they are a big part of it They often go overlooked in a lot of the conversations, and I've had actually some people on this show talk quite highly about some of the guides, whether it's in the premier regions or even Kilimanjaro.

I've had a couple of guests talk very fondly of the guides in those areas, so they are a big part to these adventures. 

For sure, nobody of the western people will go there everywhere without the support. I mean, all the people, they go on base camps, they have the support of porters. Most of the people, they go on the high mountains.

There are just a few people doing, like, alpine style on the 8000m peaks. I mean, usually, it's all supported by other people. And all those trekking people, they all go. Also like us with the daypack and all the rest is carried by the protests. So without those people, nobody of us will explore this area.

They are a huge part of the trip. 

Yeah. So that said, but you did carry your own bike, didn't you? Or you both carried your own bikes to about 20 kilograms or maybe a little less on your back. How was that? experience. 

Well, I did it a lot before, because yeah, like I told you, this mountaineering stuff combined with biking is my personal style of, I don't know, inspires me to go up to a mountain with my bike because I don't like to hike down.

Yeah, this is not my favorite sport. I like to hike up, but I don't like to hike down. So it's better for me to carry my bike up there. Yeah, but on the day on the past, this was the biggest day for us. We had about I think 22 kg or whatever on the backpack, the bike and all the big gloves and because we started at 9 o'clock in the evening and then we went to the pass, we climbed up the pass, so we had to be on top of the pass at like 6 o'clock in the morning, so we climbed the whole night, so you need warm clothes, big gloves, proper shoes, crampons, we need a harness, we had Jumas to hold on the fixed ropes and everything, and yeah, this was It's some kind of horror to be honest  and even it was a long day because we went down on the other side to the Ali camp and there we only had a short break.

So we had a little nap and a cup of noodle soup and then we went on to the Concordia place and we reached the Concordia place the next day at 7pm. So we had been on feet for 22 hours. This was the longest and hardest day.  

Had you ever climbed in the Karakorum before? Or was that your first visit? 

That was my first visit.

I told you my idea during my climbing period was always to go climbing there, but it didn't happen. So this was my first visit in the Karakorum range, and I was really impressed. I'm so excited about this area. It's unbelievable. Those huge granite walls, those one mountain in space. bigger and steeper than the other and it's unbelievable days and days they're just steep walls huge mountain wow it's so unique and i think all the people they like mountains they have to go there once in their lifetime it's amazing it's unique 

fantastic so in terms of your achievements then did it meet your expectations in terms of what you set out to accomplish 

Well, the area itself and the nature, it was ultimate.

I don't know how to say, it was, the weather was perfect, we saw K2, we had been on perfect weather at the Concordia Place, we saw all the big mountains, and we were happy to be down close to Ascoli before the first rain starts, so in terms of nature and mountains,  We were satisfied as much as possible in terms of cultural things, we were even more than happy to have this experience because the people were so friendly, the people, even in Skadu were so open hearted to us, we didn't expect that because to be honest, I mean, if you have a look at the news about Pakistan, it's not always the best, some kind of crazy, we always hear just about the bad things and about terrorism and whatever.

And it was such a warm welcome there in Skardu. They all were interested, they invited us for tea, they supported us in every way, and really we didn't expect this. I mean, I know this from other places like Nepal, for example, but we  Did not expect this to be in Skardu, in Pakistan, though. This also were quite overwhelming in terms of biking.

Well, it didn't work out that good.  I think to have a look back, it was not more than 20 percent of biking or 25%. Maybe the rest week.  But this is not the main reason why I go on these travels, because all those experiences, meeting people, seeing the nature, and getting the moments, for example, with the porters, having them on our bikes.

Those are the moments why I love to carry my bike around there. It's not about, just about biking. It's not about looking for the best trail or whatever, because if I, Just wanted to have the best trail. Maybe I'll go to, I don't know, to some places, South Tirol, wherever there is a infrastructure for biking.

I mean, we knew that there is no infrastructure for biking in Pakistan or at the Baltoro Glacier. But this is, yeah, the biking is not the main topic on those travels for me. 

I mean, just listening to you talk and seeing your face, you know, kind of light up talking about the Karakoram, I think that's what it's all about.

I mean, you can plan all day long, but things don't always go to plan and that's, you know, partly where the adventure comes into it. So the cultural immersion and being in that part of the world just must be fantastic in its own right. Rolling back a little bit, one question I did want to ask actually, because you did touch on, there are often negative connotations with some parts of that world in the likes of Pakistan.

And. Rightly and wrongly for a lot of reasons, but did you ever have to navigate any sort of politics or safety concerns or getting permits? How did all that come about? Did that go well or was that a challenge at all? 

No, actually this was pretty easy because one point was of course ISAC. So we worked together with an agency and they took care of all the permits and all the papers that were needed for Crossing the area.

So we had all this safe in our pocket. So this was not a big deal. And whenever I'm on a travel, if we talk about safety, I never fear about the people or fear about whatever terrorism attacks or what this is such a small safety part. It's more like the standard things like, for example. Going in a car, because the cars are not technical well prepared,  and you don't know what about the driver.

And, for example, we had this situation, like, we went from Askole back to Skardu in a jeep, and he went pretty fast, and we just thought, okay, well, something is wrong, because whenever we crossed several checkpoints with a barrier, So whenever we came into a barrier, he just yelled out the window, like, Oh, no, no.

We didn't understand, but then they just opened up the barrier and we passed through. So with a high speed, so we didn't know what happens there. Yeah, there was the point where we stopped for a lunch break. So he was stopping the car, was shifting in the gear and with the handbrake. And we thought like, what the hell is he doing?

Then we asked Isaac again about, hey, what's going on here with the car and everything? Ah, so hey. Isaac was again like no, no, no problem. No problem. Everything. Okay. Just the brakes do not 

work. 

Okay, so I'm not sure everything is okay. The brakes do not work. Okay. It didn't get this together.  But the funny thing on this topic is also that during lunch break, of course, they repaired the car.

But they don't have any brake fluid or whatever. They just put milk into the brake because this works the same way  

What?  

Really? They went into the kitchen put some cow milk and they just went out and filled it up into the brake 

Oh, wow. 

So those are the safety reasons you should care about in those countries.

That's phenomenal Wow.  Did, did it make any difference to the breaking at all? No. No. Not at all. 

No. I mean, oh, after this, we still didn't went pretty far because we weren't running out of diesel after this, so we had to again, check some diesel on the way. But just to give you an idea about the safety reason, I never fear about the people.

I never had problems in terms of thieves or my things never got stolen on one trip. Yeah. But those are the things, you never know what happens, you never know. Old planes, old helicopters, old cars, drunken drivers, whatever happens here. So you have to be careful about these topics because it's not in your hand.

Yeah, exactly. Sometimes these things you take for granted. I've been in a few, right? Dodgy vehicles,  you know, drivers high on amphetamines and stuff as well in Asia. It can be worrisome. So you know what I'm talking about. I mean, It can be worrisome. That's the really crazy stuff that's going on. A journey that should take six hours takes about two.

It's crazy.  Excellent. Wow. So have you any thoughts or plans to go back to Pakistan? 

I do, I do. It inspired me so much, this area, and there is so much more to explore, and Even when we talk to different people there, to other climbers, to Isaac, and Yes, definitely, I will go back there whenever I have the chance.

Maybe Let's see what happens next. 

Yeah, excellent. Oh, yeah, amazing. What a brilliant adventure, Gerhard. It's a little bit crazy as well, carrying a bike across a glacier in the middle of Pakistan. It doesn't get much more adventurous than that. It's fantastic. So switching lanes a little bit. I wanted to also touch on Africa, so You'd done two summits back to back, didn't you?

Or within 10 days you'd done Mount Kenya and then you'd done Kilimanjaro as a team of three with, you know, Handray and Danny McCaskill. When was that? That's quite a while ago now, isn't it? Is it 2016, 2017 or something like that? 

Exactly,  2016. 

Yeah, I think Mountain of Greatness. What struck me about that with it, and jumping to the end of that a little bit,  You know, you got to the top, but the ride back down, I mean, that just looked exhilarating, absolutely phenomenal.

And I think you touched on that earlier. You don't like hiking down the mountain, but you like riding it down. So how does Kilimanjaro compare to the likes of what you've done in Pakistan in terms of achievement? Well, 

it's rideable. That's the 

first thing. Yeah, of course. Of course. 

It's really rideable. It's really a good mountain for mountain biking. So the idea to go up there with my mountain bike actually came because I was cycling around Kilimanjaro and I always thought about going up there, but I knew that I didn't want to hike down there. And I knew that this is technically a pretty easy mountain.

And I always thought about going up there with my bike, but there was no permit for the national park to go in there with a mountain bike. And it took me quite a while to get the permit organized. And I got this support from a travel agency, a friend of mine. Thomas, he's supporting a travel agency there.

And they did most of the work to get the permit. In 2016, we were the first people to get an official permit. There were some other people on the top before, but we were the first to get the official permit to ride mountain bikes there. And since this time, it's possible for everybody to go up there with a mountain bike.

And It is really a mountain biking mountain. I mean, you have for sure you have to carry up most of the time, but to go down really, it's like a proper mountain biking tour. Had you hiked 

to the top of Kilimanjaro 

before? No, not to Kilimanjaro. I've been to Mount Kenya before. 

Okay. 

But not to Kilimanjaro because I didn't want to hike down from Kilimanjaro.

I always thought, no, there should be another chance. 

So, in terms of training, I know that watching the video when you done Mount Kenya Beforehand, I think Danny McCaskill suffered a little bit from altitude sickness, didn't he? And he had to kind of take a little bit of time out, but you guys were there acclimatizing.

How did that set you up for, because particularly the reason I'm interested in that is that it's a hard thing, even though it's a technically easy mountain, it must be hard to hike. And you're doing that with your bikes and stuff and acclimatization. How was that journey up in terms of fitness and training and how well did you acclimatize on the way up?

The usual idea was to do the acclimatization on Mount Kenya. This is the reason why we did both mountains, because we knew that climbing up Kilimanjaro, we have to do some acclimatization before. And Hans actually came up with the idea, oh, maybe we can do this on Mount Kenya. But still, if I had a look at this program, I knew, okay, this also is pretty tough, because the third night is already above 4, 000 meters.

So, I decided to do some preparation back home in terms of acclimatization. And I did this with a high altitude tent. So it's a small engine, like a filter that filters out the oxygen of the air. And then you can level the oxygen inside the air. It's more or less like, yeah, you can simulate high altitude.

And then you sleep inside a tent and this generator always blues. This air inside the tent. So it's like you're sleeping up, for example, at 4, 000 meters or 4, 200 meters. And you do this. Well, I did this at least for nearly four weeks back home. So I had a little tent in my bedroom and I slept always inside of this tent for acclimatization.

And this worked out pretty good, to be honest, this is really a good thing. So whenever you go into a high altitude and you do. not have the time to have a proper acclimatization, try to rent a tent and do it back home. You 

literally had a tent in your house and you slept in that each night for four weeks?

Yeah.  And so this tent, this small tent is more or less closed. And inside this tent, there's just this thin air because it all Go through the generator, and the generator with the filter inside, it filters out the oxygen. And so you have this simulated altitude inside this tent. So this is the way you can do some acclimatization back home.

And this is what I did mostly in front of this. For sure, I did some hiking and carrying my bike around, because I knew that we have to carry a bike around for, yeah. quite a few days. I did this for preparation too. For us, it works. Even Martin Bissig, the photographer, was there for taking the pictures and he was doing the same high altitude training back home.

And for us, in terms of altitude, we didn't have any problems at all. So this really helped us a lot. That's 

a great piece of advice. Excellent. How did you deal with the Climatic conditions, not just the altitude. 'cause Kilimanjaro, you start obviously pretty much jungle like don't you, at the bottom you could throw various different terrains and climates and stuff.

'cause again, just so interested, 'cause you're carrying your bike and stuff. Was there any point you were kind of like, uh, I don't know if I can go on with this or struggling with it at all, or did you take it in your stride? 

Actually, the beginning of the trip up to Kilimanjaro is not that bad because up to Rumbo Huts there is like a.

four wheel track going up there, leading up there, because this was made for rescue teams to carry porters or tourists down the mountain by a car. So you can cycle up there actually till 3, 400 meters, something like this. And then it starts getting more hard and you have to push for a while and then there is a big plain area going to the Kibo hut, which is about 4, 700 meters.

There the trouble starts, because then you have like a 1, 000 meters steep, it feels vertical, gravel surface to the crater rim to the Kilimanjaro peak. And this really is hard. And this is even more harder if you carry your bike up there. So we had like tracking poles for the balance. We had the bike on the backpack.

And you have a big backpack because we started the night again, like one or two o'clock in the morning. It was snowing at the beginning, so we had to carry again warm clothes, gloves, your headlamp, some food, a lot of drinks and everything. And then it took us about eight hours to reach the top. And  for sure during this hike, we all had some points where we thought, okay, not  sure if this was the best idea. 

But once the sun is coming out, I mean, if the sun rises there and you see the sun coming up behind Mavenzi Peak, which is the peak on the opposite side, and the sun is coming up there, it gives you some warmth and everything. It gives you so much power, and then you know, okay, let's go for the next four hours again.

It's gonna happen, so. But for sure, there are some moments That's where you think about, okay, not sure what I'm doing here. 

How much cycling up did you actually do in percentages? Do you think? Let me count this 1, 

000 meters  altitude.  I think like 40%, 35 up to 40%. Yeah, yeah, 

yeah. It's not too bad on Kilimanjaro.

And what was your team dynamic like with Danny MacAskill and Ray? Had you guys met before you got on that trip? 

Well, I knew Hans before. This was also a reason why I called him because I organized the permit for Kilimanjaro. I knew already that Hans wanted to go there, but he didn't get a permit, obviously, because it wasn't possible.

So I asked him, and he joined in the team. And during his connection, there was a film company, which was Freeride Entertainment from the U. S., joining us and making a movie, and they asked Hans if there is a possibility that Danny McGaskill could join to you and Hans already knew Danny so he called me again and asked is it okay if Danny McGaskill joins and I told him I don't know this guy so let's meet up on a fair so there was Eurobike a big festival in Germany so we meet there and we had a good time so it was just easy and Danny McGaskill is such a nice easy guy also it's like Meeting a good friend.

And I mean, we all have the same, yeah, the same interest with biking and Tri's biking. And so you have a connection. And to go on a trip with Danny McGaskill was such a funny thing. And it was a really great time. 

It came across. It looked like such a lovely dynamic. Fantastic. So what was it like then when you got to the summit?

And you realized you had the opportunity to cycle back down. What was the excitement levels like?  

Well, the excitement level was pretty high, because even all the preparation before, it took me about more than a year to put all these things together. And the last three months before it started were pretty intense.

And then we had this struggle with Danny on Mount Kenya. He got high altitude sick, so we had to rescue. him down from Mount Kenya, and we were not sure if he is able to go up to Kilimanjaro. We all thought, no, this will never happen. But then we were up there all together, and all the film crew and the porters and everywhere was up there.

And it was, yeah, we were all stoked. This was really, I mean, for sure, I had some tears in my eyes, because it was like a long term dream also. And It was also hard. Even though those 14 days we had been around, they were really tough in terms of the program and everything. And then you know, okay, now we have a downhill.

Most of it is rideable and it's about 5000 vertical meters down. And this is just amazing. You ride from the alpine area, from a glacier area down to the jungle. And, yeah, I mean, this is so exciting. If you turn around your bike and you jump on your bike and the first meters are Just the perfect trail on the crater rim on the left hand side, you have a look into the crater on the right hand side, you see the Serengeti and the Mawenzi Peak and everything.

This is unbelievable, really. And then to have the chance to ride your bike, to have a good cycling, this is 

Wow.  Wow. 

Nothing better.  

So firstly, a couple of things here. I thought it was amazing that you all managed to do that considering how touch and go it was with Danny getting evacuated and stuff and then to see you all actually get to the top and then ride back down was great to see.

But in terms of your ride, was it three days you took to ascend or was it four days? I can't quite remember. How long did you take to get to the summit?  How long did it take you to come down? 

I mean, if you force it, you could ride down in one day, but then it's a really tough day because you do it on the same day.

You have the summit day, the summit push, like you have eight hours climb up. And then if you want to go down completely, usually it takes two days. So you go down back to Kibohat or maybe to Harambohat, you stay another night, and then you go down to the jungle, go out of the Kilimanjaro National Park. So, yeah, it's about two days, and it's even worth it to stay there one more night, because after you have the success of the mountain, and stay one more night up there and celebrate in the tents and everything, and together with the whole group, it's worth to stay up there, even if you could ride down completely, but then it's really a hard, tough, long day.

What was it like coming down? I can imagine, did you not wrestle with not wanting to finish it but at the same time it was what you were there to do? Because it must be, you know, you get to the top and then you're whizzing back down and there must be an element of adrenaline exhilaration but also not wanting it to end.

How did you deal with that? 

Yeah, that's always a good question. It's really this point if a trip like this ends it's on one hand It's like yeah, we did it we succeed or even if you didn't get to the top what happens pretty often At least you're in one piece and you're hopefully you're in a good shape But then on the other hand, it's really like you said, oh the time is over now So it's only one more or two more days.

So yeah, there's always a bit of sadness in this moment too, because if you have such an intense time, you don't want to stop it. There is so much to explore and the feelings are so deep and the time is so packed up with new experience. Yeah, it's always something in between, in between. Okay, happy to go back home, happy to have a shower.

to have all the comfort back home, have whatever, good food and so on. But on the other hand, it's like, yeah, say goodbye to new friends, say goodbye to another culture, say goodbye to great mountains, to the team because you came together, good working team. And yeah, it's both sides all the time. 

Yeah, it's a wonderful adventure and a wonderful achievement.

Were you guys the first to mountain bike down Kilimanjaro? 

No, then the first people to climb up there were actually Richard and Nicholas Crane from the UK in 1986.  Sorry, no, I meant the 

mountain bike back down. Were you the guys the first to ride it back down? 

Well, I don't know how much the other people did in terms of riding down because in some section you need some proper skills, but I don't really know how much the other people did ride down.

I don't know. So for sure, I think we Managed to ride the most of the way, except of 200 vertical meters on the crater rim, but the rest we did ride down and usually, at least to me, it doesn't matter if I'm the first or the second, the third, the last one. It is a great experience for myself and that's what counts, so, yeah.

But the first people on the summit were Richard and Nicholas Crane from the UK. And they also wrote a book. It's interesting. So, whenever you have the chance to read it, go for it. You can see it in the used bookstore somewhere. Pretty good book. 

Yeah, I'm always on the lookout for good book recommendations.

Spend most of my waking hours reading, so fantastic. And this is a movie as well, isn't it? So, what's the movie titled? Is it Mountain of Greatness? The short movie? Yes, it's Mountain of Greatness. Yeah, and it's about 30 minutes or so. Yeah, I also re watched that as well. It's, uh, fantastic, so. I would recommend people go and watch that as well as everything else on your channel and your Instagram page.

Gerhard that's been fantastic talking to those big  grand adventures. I wanted to ask if you get any other big unrealised  biking adventures that you would love to do at some point? 

Oh, well, there's a lot in my head, to be honest.  I have a lot of ideas. I mean, there was one long term dream I could realize this summer.

I went to Kyrgyzstan, which was also amazing. It was unbelievable, we had such a intense time there. It was in an area called the Patagonia of Asia, in the Turkestan range, in Kyrgyzstan. This was also in my head since, I don't know, maybe 8 years or something like this. And yeah, I definitely want to go back in this, maybe Uzbekistan, or Yeah, in this area, in middle Asia area, and for sure I want to go back to Pakistan because it's such an amazing place and there's a lot more to do.

There are a lot more places to carry the bike around.  

Yeah. Oh God.  Do you still do climbing without a bike on your back?  

Yes, I still do that.  And even sometimes I love it to do it without my bike on my back. 

I mean, see when you're carrying your bike, I don't know if I noticed, did it fold over or was it? 

Fixed frame that you had on to your back. Was it one fixed frame? 

It depends where we go. So sometimes we just put the bike on top and sometimes you take out the wheels and put everything together and strap everything there. So it depends where you go. So, but usually if we go up, for example, to Kirimanjaro, we just put it on top, then you hike up there.

So that's, that's pretty good. 

Excellent. I thoroughly enjoyed this. It's so inspiring, but equally a little bit crazy, which is I think partly why I love it. And it's phenomenal. Thank you very much. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. Sometimes I really 

think it's a bit crazy too, but  especially if you carry your bike around for a long time.

but it's so nice to see the people to have this connection to the people because wherever you go with your bike and not that many bikes before or no bikes before it's like a door opener because all the kids are happy and all the people are like what are you doing with the bike there and it's it's such a door opener to the people that's unbelievable so so i really love to i will carry it around wherever i go it's 

amazing i get because i i even you know think back to my own childhood when you first learn to ride a bike it's like the world just opens It's just like your horizons just expand and you could cycle like a kilometre or two away from the house and all of a sudden you're in this entirely new world, so it's fantastic.

And I think the story about Isaac and the porters in Pakistan and teaching these guys to ride a bike. It's something that shouldn't be glossed over. I think these cultural immersions and the connection to the guides and the environment and stuff and that's just wonderful. It's just a really nice part of the story.

I think so too and for me it's even a very important part. Also if you think back on Kilimanjaro, like the agency we had been together on top, like Xtrek Africa, Richard is the head guide. Nowadays they do have a little business in terms of biking because biking people go there. After our trip they start having this business too.

I mean they have trekking people, but now they have trekking and biking people. So there's a benefit for those people and I really like it very much. I mean every time he sends me pictures when oh, I was up on Kilimanjaro again with bikers and everything. And this is what I love too because it gives something back to the people.

It's not Just like it's for my experience, but something stays there and it's something for the people. And even in Pakistan to the, to reporters, I still do have contact via Instagram and WhatsApp to some of the people. And they still do remember and they report me from time to time about their trips. I send them photos from my trips and it's such a good connection.

And they are also happy about our Sometimes also they are inspired by crazy ideas. Yeah, this is what I like too because it stays there. It's not just like we go there and consume something, but something stays there too. And this is very important for me. That's 

wonderful. It's wonderful just hearing you.

That's why I do this show. It's not just to get ideas myself, but it's to spread this word and kind of get a little bit deeper into these stories so that people can, you know, that bit of a spark of inspiration or you know, or whatever, that people can go and do some of this and, you know, you can see that the impact these, because sometimes people think these big adventures can be a little bit selfish at times, but when you hear these things and you see what it does to the local communities and particularly through, you know, if someone's now growing their business through what you're doing, it's just fantastic, it's, it really is given back even by proxy, it's wonderful.

And even this is also part, or for me, that's the motivation why I write articles, why I cut my videos and do my speeches. It's not like because I like to go there and show myself, uh, the one and only, I carried my bike everywhere. I mean, to be honest, it's completely stupid to carry your bike around or to, to bike wherever.

I mean, there is no sense, but if you can inspire people or, or if you can give the people an idea to travel somewhere or to live their own dreams or to follow their own ways or whatever they take as a topic for themselves. That's the reason why I do those, yeah, those writings, those cutting videos, do my speeches and everything.

So whenever there is somebody and tells me, Hey, because of your travel to Morocco, I went there too. Or even I had some people going to Pakistan. A lot of them went to Kilimanjaro because of our movie and Yeah, that's something that makes me happy to hear the people doing their own stuff. Yeah, and 

likewise, and it makes me happy just hearing that and just, you know, speaking to you and you giving up your time to talk about it today.

It just, yeah, it fills my heart with just joy and in my head with wonder. And I thank you for doing what you're doing and bringing these stories to life. Not just your adventures, but what happens on the periphery to these cultures and these individuals. It's wonderful. It really is. 

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. It was a great honour to be here. Chris, thank you for the invitation. Oh, you're welcome, 

buddy. And so with that said, we'll move into the two closing traditions, one of which is a pay it forward. So an opportunity for you to raise awareness for any worthy causes, projects, or whatever may be important to you.

And then we'll talk about a call to adventure. So, so what would you suggest, Gerhard, as a pay it forward suggestion? 

Yeah, I really think it's, Like, if you work together with those people, and if you respect them, and if you join your time with those people, the way you travel, you give something back. I mean, that's the most important thing.

Like, we talked about the last two minutes. This is, like, take something, but also give something back to them. I mean, that's very important. And not just give back money, also give back the ideas, the different views on the life you live and everything. And I think this pays back all the 

time. And even, like you said, like You know, you've got a skill in biking, for example, and passing that on and spending, you know, a little bit of hours or in your downtime to show these guys and girls, you know, what they can do and even just passing that little bit of time and skill set on is fantastic.

So I agree. 

That's awesome. One reason I like to. Join and go with those people because sometimes people asking me, why don't you go by yourself? It would be much more achievement if you go unsupported and if you do everything by yourself. And I don't like it. I like to meet those people. I like to be with them.

I like to talk to them. I like to have them a job. I like to give them at least some money back, but also give them some good experience or other experience. And that's one great opportunity for me always to get. known much more about the country, the culture. If I travel with those people, even if they support us, even if we pay them and everything, most times like a friendship behind.

And it's, that's one reason for me, why I like to join those people and to invite them and 

often, as you said, friendships that last years, you know, connections that you still keep in touch with as well. So it's fantastic. And finally, a call to adventure. So let's get people excited or, you know, looking to do something a little bit different.

more adventurous and not carrying a bike across the Baltoro glacier in Pakistan.  What would your call to adventure be, Gerhard? 

I mean, adventure is something different for everybody. Everybody else sees the adventure in a different way. And for some people, even if it is adventurous, if the. I don't know if Google Maps is breaking down.

So they have an adventure because they don't know where they are. Even if they are in a big city. So adventure is pretty personal and pretty individual, I think. So for me, adventure and the idea of adventure is to do something where you don't know what happens exactly. So do something that's not planned or, I know it's planned, but there are still some Some things you don't know, some unknown places.

And it doesn't have to be that big, it doesn't have to be Karakorum. And even if it's just like, going out without any map. Just for like, two days. Just hiking around in the forest in front of my house, without any map, without my phone, without anything. And just, yeah, trust your feelings and going out of the comfort zone and then there will be adventure for sure.

It doesn't have to be far away, jumping into a plane, going to a car, going to the Antarctic or wherever. I think adventure can be in front of your door. It's just a matter of getting yourself out of your habit, doing something different. Yeah. 

That's come up a few times. It's, you know, it doesn't need to be far flung places.

You can have local adventures and ditch the technology. and get outside your comfort zone. So, yeah, excellent. Thank you.  Excellent. I thoroughly enjoyed this. It's, it's been brilliant. So where can everyone find out more about Gerhard Czerna and all your adventures past and in future? 

Well, for sure on my Instagram account, it's called Gerhard Czerna.

Um, there's a YouTube channel. And yeah, like books and all news about my speeches. Well, actually they're mostly in German, like Austria, Germany, and Switzerland, but all those, yeah, well, all of those things will be published on my homepage. It's also called Gerhard Tscherner. So it's pretty easy. Whenever you Google me, you will find me.

Yeah. Welcome everybody on my pages and have fun with looking at the videos. And thank you very much again for the invitation. Great to talk to you. 

Likewise, and we'll get all that listed, Gerhard, and the website isn't German, but Google Translate. Click a button and it translates it quite easily, so it is well worth a check.

And yeah, the videos, we'll get those linked as well, and I recommend everyone goes and reads some of your articles. Pick up Sidetrack Magazine as well. There's some fantastic articles in there as well, some great coverage, and look at all your videos. So this has been brilliant. Thank you very much, Gerhard.

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. For the show notes and further information, please visit adventurediaries. com slash podcast. And finally, we hope to have inspired you to take action and plan your next adventure, big or small. Because sometimes, we all need a little adventure to cleanse that bitter taste of life from the soul.

Until next time, have fun and keep paying it forward.