Megan Hine: What the Wild Teaches Us About Life & leadership - From Expeditions to Adventure TV

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What does it take to survive the extremes—not just of the wild, nature, but of pressure, fatigue, and the unpredictable?

In this episode, I sit down with Megan Hine, one of the most trusted survival consultants, expedition leaders, and adventure safety producers on the planet. 

From guiding A-list celebrities across jungle gorges and desert canyons to building trust with tribes, cartels, and government fixers in far-flung corners of the world—Megan’s story is a masterclass in leadership, resilience, and reading the wild.

We dig into Megan's roots—from muddy childhoods in Snowdonia to cycling the Malvern Hills, her ADHD diagnosis, and how early outdoor exposure lit a lifelong fire. She shares behind-the-scenes stories from Man vs. Wild, talks about the psychology of rigging fake-peril challenges, and explains how STOP and the Survival Rule of 3 can help you avoid panic and poor decisions in the wild—or modern life.

There’s grit, humour, and wisdom throughout this one. Whether you're leading a team or just need a push to step outdoors, Megan's stories might change how you view risk, trust, and what it means to truly be alive.

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What You’ll Learn

🧠 IDEAS
• Why perception of risk often matters more than the actual danger
• How wilderness lessons apply to leadership, TV, and life
• The role of empathy and autonomy in high-stress team dynamics

🪖 INSIGHTS
• “Luck opens the door, but graft keeps it open.”
• Good fixers are the unsung heroes of global adventure filmmaking
• Burnout isn’t just physical—it’s emotional backlog catching up once the mission ends

📚 REFERENCES
• Land of the Long White Cloud (book): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39345619
• The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien
• Cliffhanger (film)
• STOP Framework: Stop, Think, Observe, Plan
• UK Scouting: https://www.scouts.org.uk
• PSYCH Media Solutions (Megan's company): https://www.psychmediasolutions.com
• Megan Hine Instagram: @megan_hine

🌍 FACTS
• Megan once lowered a Jeep Wrangler on a single rope
• She’s led safety for shows involving 400+ crew in remote terrain
• Lyme disease, caught in the UK, changed her approach to adventure health

🎒 Episode Takeaway

You don’t need a passport or a plan—adventure begins the moment you step outside your front door

Chapters

• 0:00 Surviving Gunfire in Kenya
• 1:10 The Adventure Diaries Podcast Introduction
• 1:30 Meet Megan Hine: Life on the Edge
• 6:40 Megan's Early Adventures and Family Influence
• 9:16 From Military Cadets to Outdoor Professional
• 15:31 Breaking into TV with Bear Grylls
• 17:09 The Challenges of Adventure TV Production
• 31:18 Scouting and Fixers: Behind the Scenes
• 40:49 Facing Danger: Gunfire and Lyme Disease
• 44:17 A Year-Long Battle with Lyme Disease
• 45:54 Water Safety in Remote Locations
• 47:40 Packing for Diverse Environments
• 49:40 Managing Post-Expedition Recovery
• 51:51 Survival Strategies and Principles
• 59:42 Leadership and Industry Challenges
• 1:08:19 Closing Thoughts and Advice

Transcript

Chris Watson (00:00.874)
So that's us live. So Megan Hyne, welcome to the Adventure Diaries. How are you?

Megan Hine (00:05.962)
Yeah, good. Yeah, thanks so much for having me on.

Chris Watson (00:08.406)
No, it's my pleasure, I think we're saying. It's taken a few months to pull together because you're a very busy lady bouncing all over the planet and you just get married actually. Congratulations, I forgot to say.

Megan Hine (00:20.632)
I did, yeah thank you. It's taken a while for us to connect because I've had some last minute jobs. But yeah, my poor husband, it's like I flew back to the UK from a job for a week to get married and then had to go back to work again. So I haven't really seen him since we got married.

Chris Watson (00:33.022)
Yeah. And I apologise to Josh for also taking up some of your time, so I do apologise. Is he? right, okay. right, okay. Excellent. Yeah. I think for context...

Megan Hine (00:41.006)
He's away, he's actually racing. Yeah, he's racing, so he doesn't know. it's all good. But thank you, that was very kind of you.

Chris Watson (00:53.746)
I was well aware of your work for a long time but I bumped into you at the Expo in Birmingham and rather awkwardly approached you with an invite to the podcast which, and you're here so it kinda worked but apologies for that being a little bit awkward with my wife and my daughter.

Megan Hine (01:08.406)
No, not at all. I think that's the way you've got to do it, isn't it? It's just like, you know, I love meeting people because I'm away so much and it's actually so nice when I go to these events to be able to meet people that, you know, may have had contact with through social media, through email and things and actually to be able to connect with people. it wasn't awkward at all.

Chris Watson (01:23.766)
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. I remember when you were talking, before we get into the fame of this, sorry I'm going off a little script here, but I remember you had just come back from somewhere and you were talking about you had a lot of, was it a botfly or something or you were worried about having a botfly in your foot or something?

Megan Hine (01:44.27)
Yeah, that's right. Yes, yeah. So I'd been out in Borneo and I'd come back and in my foot, like in the arch of my foot, I had a butterfly and it's a parasite that burrows into your skin and yeah, it has a little snorkel that it breathes through. So what I had to do with that was I was using a combination of Vaseline over the top of it and duct tape to suffocate it and then I was able to pick it out, which is pretty gross.

Chris Watson (01:55.498)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (02:13.824)
It's amazing considering the amount of time I spend in environments like that, that actually I've been incredibly fortunate over the years to not have had too many issues like that.

Chris Watson (02:25.398)
interesting, the hazards of the job. But I showed my little one a video of a botfly after that and it was a kid having it in the of the crown of his head and she was completely grossed out, which I don't think is helping because I'm trying to encourage her into this lifestyle to a degree.

Megan Hine (02:28.398)
It's interesting.

Megan Hine (02:35.371)
yeah.

Megan Hine (02:44.864)
I think that's great though because I think that's the thing, like yes it seems really gross but actually like particularly with young people it's like getting them curious and like bringing that curiosity and opening their eyes to all these weird and wonderful things like in the world because I really think like the world is just so full of like magic and all these crazy things that we don't come into contact in our everyday world and different cultures and places and yeah so I think it's awesome anything like for young people however gross it might be is awesome.

Chris Watson (03:00.918)
Okay.

Chris Watson (03:11.702)
Yeah, I like the description, the snorkel. It's very apt. Right, so in terms of the frame for today, Megan, I wanted to kind of touch on a little bit about your background, your kind of career progression, obviously some of your adventures and expeditions, but and talk about more about the wild, some of the lessons from the wild and particularly some of the key messages and points that you can have published in your book. And the objective really is

for people to not just be entertained but hopefully a little bit more educated today and ultimately inspired and whether that's to go and seek out more within the adventure community or go and do something a little bit more wild. So that is the kind of frame for today and maybe just rolling back to set some context around your formative years. I think you grew up in quite an adventurous family, didn't you?

Megan Hine (04:05.782)
Yeah, I was very fortunate that my dad was originally a geologist, so all our family holidays were to go and hug rocks, so to go into the mountains. My mum is Welsh, she's from Snowdonia, so we spent a lot of time up around Snowdonia, which is actually where I'm based now, climbing and out in the mountains. And my parents had a caravan that they towed around the UK in the summer holidays, and we'd get to go and explore all these wild...

corners of the UK, which was just amazing as a kid. I absolutely loved it. And I think I was just very lucky actually, because I've got into like mountain biking really early on. I found it quite by accident. I remember I was cycling to school on my dad's bike, which was like massive at the time. And I grew up on the Malvern Hills in Worcestershire. And I remember just like cycling home from school one day and just wondering if I could cycle along the Malvern Hills. So I started off and I just like,

I remember coming down off the top of the beacon and like completely out of control, like skidding all over the place down this little gravel path. The basket of four and often was dragging along behind. I just remember being like, having the biggest smile on my face, just being like, this is incredible. Like, this is absolutely amazing. And I just became hooked. And I think it's like kind of later, I suppose, or more recently that, you know, I diagnosed with ADHD.

which makes a lot of sense. I think finding like mountain biking, climbing, and that adventurous side of things early on was just incredible. So I think, my career path and things has just played perfectly to that condition.

Chris Watson (05:46.646)
Yeah, with your dad being... Was he a geography teacher or was it your mum? Was it your dad? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Megan Hine (05:55.15)
They both were actually when they met. He'd been a geologist originally and then became a geography teacher and that's how my parents met actually at Geography Teachers Conference. Super romantic, talking about rocks. So they bonded over that and then they ran, they sort of combined the two schools that they were working for. They both, they combined that together to run a trip to Iceland.

Chris Watson (06:06.23)
Alright, that sounds epic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Megan Hine (06:25.102)
And I guess that's when things really kicked off between them.

Chris Watson (06:29.019)
Yeah. Did they try and influence you to travel and stuff when you were younger or did they influence the whole adventure side? What was the kind of...

Megan Hine (06:36.55)
No, not well, I mean, we were encouraged to go outside and I think it was great because I could be covered in mud. could be, you know, I love Mounta Bota. I love getting absolutely covered in mud and coming home and, you know, there was never any issues about being covered in mud or my clothes being ripped or covered in oil and things. So, you know, that was never an issue, I think, because both of my parents had worked really hard to get to where they were academically.

that I think it was expected because I was the oldest one that I would follow suit and that I would either go into the military or I would go down a more academic route. And obviously I did end up doing neither, but I was in the military cadets in my teens and through that I did had access to a lot of adventurous training and just took advantage of any of that. I was...

very lucky that I was allowed to go and do all this adventurous training without a female cover. Otherwise, you know, I wouldn't, if I'd had to have had female cover, because I was the only girl on the trip, so wanting to go, if they'd needed a female instructor or leader on that, I would never have been allowed to go because they, just didn't, I just never met, you know, never worked with a female leader at the time.

Chris Watson (07:47.039)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (07:52.466)
Yeah, what kind of environments did you get access to when you were in the military cadets? Was that all in the UK? Because I'm keen to know how that... you've got a wide array of skills which I think is fantastic, know, you know, whether it's bushcraft, survival, know, but trying to understand how all that kind of came to be, what was your kind of path through like survival training and the wild and bushcraft skills and stuff?

Megan Hine (08:16.918)
Yeah, so I threw the military cadets, I did a lot of rock climbing, winter mountaineering in Scotland and I really fell in love with it. So any sort of free moment I had, would go be out doing, chasing those things and mountain biking and things. And then when I left school, I took a year out between school and university and I had a place to do marine biology actually.

So I took a year out and went to New Zealand for a year and ended up, fate, luck, whatever you might call it, working in an outdoor centre on the South Island. And through that I trained as a raft guide, I started taking people into the mountains, I picked up some basic qualifications out there. And then I realised that there was actually a career in this industry, in this outdoor industry, which I hadn't realised existed before.

So I came back to the UK, I changed my degree, I did outdoor studies at university, which is like three years of climbing on a student loan, and spent three years doing that. I spent my second year actually out in the Czech Republic. But for me, New Zealand was really the first time that I'd travelled internationally. I'd always wanted to, but my parents didn't have the resources to do that as a family when I was growing up.

And I used to, I read all of these like amazing books, like from The Hobbit through to, know, the Shackleton's journeys and things. And I was much more drawn into like the sort of fiction side of things and this like magical world that was around us. That I just, wanted to explore. I wanted to meet all of these incredible people that lived out there. Some cousins visiting from Australia bought me this book called Land of the Long White Cloud.

and it's all about New Zealand Māori culture and all these beautiful artistic depictions of some of the Māori mythology and I was just drawn to that and the ideas of these different cultures living in different ways to us. And yeah, so when I came back from New Zealand, did this degree in outdoor studies, just as I was leaving that.

Megan Hine (10:32.846)
there was an opportunity to do an apprenticeship in bushcraft and survival and I'd already got some of my basic outdoor qualifications so I'd already got my summer mountain leader, I'd got my what at the time was the single pitch award which is now rock climbing instructor I think it's called now, and mountain biking qualifications, various other qualifications and I kind of fell into the bushcraft survival world.

And at the time I was a prolific climber, I couldn't really talk about anything else. So really interesting. And yeah, I worked for this company for three years doing this apprenticeship and started doing overseas expeditions with them. And those are expeditions to go out to join indigenous cultures. So I spent time with Sam Bushman, with

Chris Watson (11:03.926)
You

Megan Hine (11:22.882)
peoples in Borneo and various other places around the world. And we'd go out there, spend time with them, and then clients would come out and join us. And then we'd go and put the skills that we put into practice with some of these incredible peoples out into practice. So it was quite, it was an amazing, informative time for me.

Chris Watson (11:42.842)
Were they sending you out there as part of your training packages? Or curriculum, like if you were going out to be the Sandbushmen and stuff? What was that?

Megan Hine (11:52.334)
No, so it was a very like there was no real, you know, it wasn't like an apprenticeship that you're going through NVQs or some sort of location like that. At the time, there was no qualifications in in bushcraft. There was in like, you know, mountaineering, rock climbing things, but not in that bushcraft world. And it just happened that the company that I was working for was setting up the expeditions and they invited me along as an assistant leader on those trips. So it was, I suppose, just

Chris Watson (12:01.707)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (12:21.678)
of luck that they were setting those expeditions up and I'd always wanted to do that. And then I started doing youth expedition work so there's some big youth expedition companies that run out of the UK. So I started leading some of their trips. So going out to Nepal for like a month at a time with sort of 16 to 18 year olds and those trips were quite incredible really because you're taking the young people out and it's you're handing over responsibility for them or to them so that they're

then controlling the expedition and making all the decisions on the ground. So it's kind of a leadership training program that you do with them. I ran a, I then moved to out to Switzerland and ran an outdoor program in a school for four years. So part of their curriculum was to be outside rock climbing, snowshoeing, skiing in the winter. It was based in a ski, out of a ski resort. So sort of through the term I was out teaching, climbing.

skiing and the bush bush grub and a spiral to the younger kids. And then in the school holidays, I was leading expeditions. And then I was working for a company that just took on the second season of a show that nobody knew that it was gonna become a massive thing with this new presenter called Bear Grylls. And essentially they'd like the first season of Bear Grylls, Man vs. Nobody knew how big this show was gonna be.

and how big Bear was gonna be and how much interest there'd be. And it was a group, you know, it was a bunch of filmmakers and there was nothing like it at the time that were going out and they were having a laugh and making, you know, enjoying making this content. And then stuff started leaking out to the press and like, okay, we need to tighten this up. So then the second season they bought in a team and they bought in me. So the company that I was working for was doing all the survival consultancy and they needed somebody that could rig the challenges or the stunts on the show.

So they asked me if I would do that. So that's how I got involved. And that was when was like, I'd been 23 at the time.

Chris Watson (14:26.336)
Wow. Was that just right place at the right time then with that company? Or you must have been doing something with the company for them to get noticed? I assume.

Megan Hine (14:34.622)
Yeah, so with the company I was leading expeditions for them, but also teaching bushcraft in the school holidays from the school that I was working at. So yeah, so I guess it was just a key part of that. And I guess, yeah, luck. And I think this is conversation I have with a lot of young people as well, is like around luck. I think luck is

an opportunity. It's a door that opens maybe, but it doesn't keep the door open. It's hard work and grafting that keeps that door open. Because there's a lot of people that have come into the industry and haven't stayed. I think it's a hell of a lot of hard work that has kept me in there for such a long time.

Chris Watson (15:17.098)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (15:24.662)
What was your experience like on, I mean coming from the field and then having cameras all around about you, what was that like? Because that must have been quite different and did that put any sort of constraints around you in terms of trying to navigate safety versus storytelling and all that kind of stuff?

Megan Hine (15:44.446)
Yeah, it's interesting. I think this this is like something actually that because the industry is like grown hugely since I first started and particularly in the past, maybe six or seven years, it's like it's exploded. And, you know, that there aren't that many people that have got years and years of the TV experience, as well as like the guiding and side of things as well. And guiding and TV work are quite different. Because often,

There are times when you're guiding, you wouldn't let somebody get to the point where they're emotionally distressed or they're struggling in the same way that we have to do for TV because you need that emotional response out of somebody. So it's like playing around with the perception of risk and bringing that camera in, that camera angles and camera people in is like, there's a whole other level.

of having to think through stuff. And when I first got involved, particularly with like the rigging side of things, there wasn't the budget that and the technology wasn't as advanced as it is now to kind of paint ropes out of shots and things. So in post production, when it goes into the edits, they can like remove things from the video and it's incredibly expensive. But at the time they didn't have those things. So oftentimes here you've got presenter that's doing all these crazy things, but they're not.

on their storyline is that they don't have a rope with them. So it's like, how do we make sure they're safe and divert the angles and things? So that was, that was a huge amount of fun actually was then figuring out like the mathematics and like the dynamics and the forces around creating those, those challenges. So it didn't look like somebody was on a rope.

Chris Watson (17:23.072)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (17:30.326)
What is it feeling like then when you rig that and then you watch it getting filmed? Is your heart in your mouth?

Megan Hine (17:38.058)
No, no, no, well, if it was in my mouth, was like, I probably shouldn't have like signed up on it. So it's an interesting question, actually, because this is something that, you know, when I'm bringing on you, because I'm now in a position where I'm hiring people on and starting to train people up for the TV work. And it's something that we explore quite a lot, because actually, you know, we're again, not paying with the perception of risk.

Chris Watson (17:43.146)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (18:06.19)
the way that our brains work and the way that the viewers brains work is that heights, ropes, all of this is just like, I was like, that's absolutely terrifying. And it's really dangerous. And yes, it looks really dangerous, but the reality is actually most of the time, once the celebrity or the people who are on screen are attached onto the rope systems, it's like a, like breathe a sigh of relief.

Chris Watson (18:29.397)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (18:30.242)
because the chance of something, because it's all so well thought out and all of the ropes, know, I've like, I've literally lowered a Jeep Wrangler on a single climbing rope, like over and overhang, like they are that strong. the chances of them, yeah. So the chances of them, like anything going wrong is, it's not, obviously not totally gone, but it's, you know, it's, actually the, so many of the places that we work in are quite technical terrain and actually it's far more likely that somebody is going to stumble and

Chris Watson (18:42.678)
That's crazy.

Megan Hine (18:59.95)
twist an ankle, break a leg when they're running through the trip, particularly when they're trying to catch, know, film somebody who's moving quite quickly through quite technical terrain.

Chris Watson (19:08.886)
Do you have to give a dummy run on that Megan? So if you get in and you're filming, before they go filming, when you're rigging it up, do you do test runs on it? If you're doing a Wrangler, a Jeep Wrangler, I'm sure the first run isn't with a Jeep Wrangler on the rope, is it?

Megan Hine (19:24.741)
Well, I'm actually not going to... The Jeep Ganglia was actually like a once-off thing. And we had a presenter who was on the bonnet, but they were on a separate rope system. So if it had failed, they were on a separate system that would have moved them clear of that. So that was all really well thought through. But yeah, in the early days with those shows, then yes, because it was all in the preparation beforehand and it still is. So much of it is making sure that there's enough time beforehand.

Chris Watson (19:30.57)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (19:36.096)
Right.

Megan Hine (19:54.04)
to go out and test as much as you can and test everything, particularly with like, know, bears, man versus wild, bears, running wilds, because it's, you're shooting linear, you're not shooting scenes like a lot of shows do. So it's like you start filming at the beginning of the day and you don't stop filming until they're tucked up in their shelters. So actually sort of moving through that, have to know exactly where you're gonna rig, where all the bits are to be able to constantly keep moving. And then now, like the past...

three or four years, I've been involved in some really big, large scale adventure survival game show style shows. And those ones, you've got like 350 crew out in the terrain. You've got people that are doing these challenges, which are for a lot of money. And that brings a whole other level of what's called compliance. As soon as you start having people competing for money, there's this whole level of compliance because you can't...

put a foot out of line with any of it. So if there's say there's two like zip lines, they both have to be tensioned exactly the same. You know, one person can't seem to seem to be getting an advantage over the other. So those are like tested over and over and over to make sure that there's none of there's no issues. The problem we have with that is that because the industry is struggling at the moment, and the financial side of things is really tight, and it's really risky for networks to make shows like this.

so much money goes into them is that oftentimes they're overseeing it right till the very last minute and we're still trying to you know sign stuff off and you know make sure everything's been tested as much as it can be but yeah it's all of those things they're tested over and over and over.

Chris Watson (21:41.812)
Yeah. Seeing scenarios like that, whether it's competitive game shows or just an adventure TV show, and not from a personal perspective, but from maybe like a kind team and a wider team, how is stress managed or the mental wellbeing? Because if you're working, like you say, long day shoots and you're doing these rigging, imagine the stress factors must start to creep in for the camp.

been trying to, you know, leadership and stuff like that, how does that manage from a network perspective? Do they rely on you to help with that or do they bring others in to, especially if you're dealing with like A-list celebrities and stuff, I'm just wondering how that operates behind the scenes, if you're allowed to say that as...

Megan Hine (22:27.714)
Yeah, no, absolutely, no, it's a really interesting part of it. So the contestants or contributors dealt with separately to the rest of the crew. Yes, it is part of my remit to advise on the health and safety side of things, as well as the adventure safety. And that's something we do look at working hours, but it's almost impossible. Like no show that I've ever worked on.

actually sticks to their supposed 12 hours of working each day. It always overruns and it's like because of my role as the head of department, so head of safety and my role often overlaps with the creative team as well. It's like, you know, I might finish the day in the field, which has been long day, and then I'm into creative meetings and ensuring that like the next day is all sorted. So, you know, I would say that I'm working 24 hours a day. I'm always on call as well in case something happens.

because we've often got people sleeping out in the field overnight or the team are moving or actually out in hammocks and you've got the whole production team out there. So that side of it and the stress side of it does come into it. What I try to do particularly is the safety team because if a camera operator messes up, know, it's footage that's lost and that might cost the network or the production company a lot of money because they have to reshoot things.

But if myself or my team messes up, that could be somebody's life. So what I try to do in my position is buffer. So try to protect my team as much as possible from the stress that's happening on the sort of higher levels and trying to manage that and not taking things personally because, know, I don't know how many times I've seen people like lose their shit on shows and it's like, you know, when you're the one that's receiving it.

Chris Watson (24:19.722)
You

Chris Watson (24:23.478)
Ehh

Megan Hine (24:23.662)
It's really hard not to be, not to like go back and just be like, fuck you. Where I actually, know, this, I'm just, now I'm just kind of like, look, you know, however tired I am, it's just got to be like, it's got absolutely nothing to do with me. This person is massively overwhelmed. They just need a vent and the chances are in like an hour or so they're to come and apologize anyway. Yeah.

Chris Watson (24:30.953)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (24:45.044)
Yeah, I think on that, think I may have been in your book or somewhere, you know, talk. And I hate to be this divisive, but and I say this as a man quite frankly, but men versus women in the bravado and ego side and listening and not listening. How do you find managing that dynamic? Do you find that men just tend not to listen sometimes in those difficult high stress situations or is that just too subjective?

Megan Hine (25:11.284)
It used to be a lot worse than it is. guess it's like the guys just were not used to seeing a woman in the role that I was in. It's got a lot better now actually like a lot of the executive producers who like when we're in the field like when we're filming they're kind of like the top tier, they're the grown-ups and they're the people that you I would report directly to and have discussions directly with.

that I think because I've been in the industry a long time now and sort of building up the reputation is that a lot of the time they respect that my opinion is respected and then there are times when you know they they don't necessarily listen and then it's like you know you've just got to make sure that you leave a paper trail behind you emails and things but it totally depends on the

Chris Watson (26:03.348)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (26:07.854)
individual, I actually find oftentimes those within the safety industry are some more tricky actually than the production teams to work with and deal with. And that's, that was one of the big reasons of setting up my company, Psych Media, was actually because, you know, I spend long periods of time, you know, I'm often away on these jobs for sort of three months at a time. And I, you know, I want to work in these places, you know, it's a high stress job.

often in like extreme environments and you just don't need dickheads there. I just want work with cool people in cool places and just do my fucking job. We just don't need politics.

Chris Watson (26:41.686)
Yeah, I know. I know.

Chris Watson (26:46.812)
Yeah, exactly. And I was saying that from a... and this isn't related to any of the TV shows that you've necessarily been on, but as a viewer watching some of the adventure TV shows, there's one on TV at the minute that's on Netflix, and I won't name the name, but you just watch the contestants and some of the contestants are just arseholes, like, you know, they just act like there's this bravado ego and it's more the men than it is the women and you see some of the women just kind of calmly going about their...

know, assured in the business. Even in SAS who there's wins it's on at the minute. You can see that anyway.

Megan Hine (27:21.974)
Yeah, but it's interesting, no, because you've got a very good point with that. you know, the thing is with that as part of the casting process is that you need those characters because I've just come, I've actually just, been working on a show this year that was cast with really lovely people and they're really sweet, but there's no drama. And it's like the show concept is absolutely incredible, but.

Chris Watson (27:30.165)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (27:49.62)
it may not make a second season because everyone was so lovely and that doesn't hold the news. need to trigger people's emotions and unfortunately it's usually the more negative ones. like fear, anxiety, human conflict that draws people in and keeps them hooked because they want to see what happens. So a lot of the shows that I work on, particularly like the big American ones, they are cast.

specifically for certain personality types and you have to be very careful when you're dealing with these individuals particularly with these game shows and again with compliancy because a lot of these people are very very good at manipulating others and getting information out of you and so have to be really careful that you don't let anything slip while you're interacting with them and then there's some of the like serial

reality TV show stars who know how to play the game and they're pretty horrible to crew when we're working with them and things because they're playing this character because they know that it draws in the viewers. And again, it's like you can't take these things personally. You have to be able to remove yourself out that because my job is to keep these people safe. And no matter how rude they're being to me, we're here to achieve a goal and that's to keep them safe and to make a TV show. And unfortunately that...

Drama is what's gonna make it a good show.

Chris Watson (29:16.738)
You never tempted to engineer unscripted drama but still keep the contestants safe.

Megan Hine (29:22.542)
Well that's part of it, they're big shows so the smaller scale ones that I work on are more involved in that but with these really large scale adventure, like sort of game show ones there's huge teams of story producers so the one I've just come off there was like 20, 25 story producers.

on that, who are there just to make sure that the narrative is kind of streamlined a bit and they're then to capitalize on any of that drama that might be happening.

Chris Watson (29:58.88)
Do you ever get any say in that creative process? Like if you've got ideas about stunts or rigging or doing it a little bit differently, do you get a voice in that?

Megan Hine (30:06.862)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I, through all of the bear work and then similar style shows, I was, would often be sort of, I suppose they call it like journey producer or supervising producer, where you're first out in the terrain and setting up the journey that you might see on screen. And then more recently, it's involved in the challenges, because you need the challenges, need to, so challenges are like what we like might be considered as stunts or.

activities which allows the contributors to be able to compete for whatever money or whatever it is that they're competing for in the moment. those challenges obviously they need to be safe and I much prefer to be able to challenges or journeys from the ground up as opposed to somebody in an office in LA who's never really been outside, never been to this environment before who's then trying to build a show because it's know the number of times when I've done a scout

in summer somewhere and they love it and I'm just being like you're going to be filming in February it's going to be white and it's like they're no no no it's fine it's fine and then it's like then it comes to February and we go to film and they're just like why is it white so it's much easier I much prefer it when I have more of an input into the creative and the locations that we go to as well.

Chris Watson (31:12.213)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (31:30.622)
Yeah, on the subject of scouting, in fact, on the subject of psych media solutions, your company, what's the mantra behind that? And when did you set it up, actually? How long has it been operating?

Megan Hine (31:44.542)
So it's been running for about four years as a company. mean, obviously, like it's been me for over 20 years now, but it's been running for about four years. the idea was initially was just to be able to be in a position to be able to build up new teams and go through the sort of training process, offer more training opportunities, more accessibility to the industry.

Chris Watson (31:52.405)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (32:13.71)
as well as some of we help develop shows as well. So quite have quite an input into new shows that are in development, which is which is I love doing that because it's like that kind of creative freedom to to be able to imagine up new things.

Chris Watson (32:18.144)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (32:29.206)
So do you get to pitch ideas to networks and stuff then? Yeah, what's that like? Do you get to go in the boardroom and do all the dragons den types, pitch type thing?

Megan Hine (32:39.346)
Yes, yeah. there's two different sides. So sometimes like a production company or a producer or, somebody who has an idea will approach me to be able to help out with fleshing out the concept. And then we then so much of things now is done online. So it'll be through like Zoom meetings and things that we're pitching it to, to networks and answering their questions. And then there's ideas that

that we've come up with that we've then pitched to networks as well. I mean, most production companies have got like a development arm. So there's so many ideas being pitched all of the time and it's always in fluctuation like what the networks are actually looking for.

Chris Watson (33:24.779)
Do you ever scout anywhere before you pitch it or do you kind of get an idea and then go and scout it or how does that dynamic work?

Megan Hine (33:32.222)
No, so for pitching usually because there's no money in that side of it and you these things are resource heavy is to be able to pitch it using footage that we've already got creating like what we call pitch decks so depending if in the UK like pitch decks that go to production companies or networks are only a few pages long the ones that go to the US networks are like 100 pages long.

So there's got to be a lot of research gone into and then what each episode might look like. And then the perfect contributors, so the in front of camera contributors as well that would then make that show what it is and make it appealing to a network and making it as visual and aesthetic as possible because a lot of the time you're dealing with very creative people that need imagery to be able to see it.

Chris Watson (34:28.202)
Yeah, fantastic. I think the strap line for your company was it making the inaccessible accessible. in terms of like going to these inaccessible areas, so if you're going scouting for, know, whether it's a guides, you know, a guiding expedition or a TV show, how do you, I'm interested to know how you approach that. Do you approach that like a mini expedition on your own with your team? You know, you have to go and.

Because imagine if you're going into places that you've maybe never been before that could be hostile, very remote, you know, how do you plan for all of that? yeah, you know, because it's the complete unknown.

Megan Hine (35:06.722)
Yes, yeah, so it doesn't matter if it's like a personal trip or an expedition that might be running for clients or TV, Scout. Yeah, a lot of it is research, particularly when I'm going to be taking other people into those environments as well. There's a whole other level of responsibility and due diligence that we need to do. So a lot of the time we start with, so if we're thinking about, say a network or a

production company have got concept for an adventure or survival show and they get in touch and we talk about what aesthetic they need. Cause often shows need like per episode needs sort of like diversity of terrain. So you get like transitions in there and then it's like, well, are you going to be shooting like the whole season at once or are we going to go to one place and then go home and then go to the next location? Like what are you looking for? Like, you know, somewhere like Mexico.

offers jungle, desert, mountains, ocean, you know, are we going to shoot it all at once and just tick it all off? So we'll then have those conversations. We'll then like we've got that idea, I've got an idea of what they want to achieve. So I'll put forward locations for that. And then once they've kind of signed off, that goes back and forth to the network of what the network like. So it's all these pitch documents, all these beautiful images goes back and forth to the network.

of what they are after. And then once the network is happy with the location, or maybe they've narrowed it down to a couple of locations, they'll then send us off on a scout. And those used to be more time for those. So I like, I've kind of got it down to per place, like 10 days is an ideal amount of time for me to be able to find what I'm looking for. But unfortunately, it's got due to budget restrictions, it's got a lot tighter. So for me, like what's really important

Chris Watson (36:58.902)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (37:03.086)
is a good local team. So we call them fixers, people in country that can work with me to understand what we need in the location. And these people are absolutely incredible. Like a good fixer, like it's just phenomenal. And the show couldn't happen without them because they give you access to areas, they give access to landowners, because everything, whenever you're filming.

Chris Watson (37:30.56)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (37:30.702)
And this is something that's worth noting for aspiring filmmakers as well that are making less stuff for TV broadcasts, but maybe for stuff for social media is getting tighter and tighter on permitting. So whenever you film somewhere, you need to ask the landowner's permission for that. That might be the government, that might be a private landowner, it might be a combination. And so it's like finding out who owns that land.

getting access to that sometimes, well often that involves paying for that. You know, I've been in countries where, you you need to be no government officials, the police, the cartels, and be connected into all of those different factors so that you can, you know, control that. So that fixer is like, is the pivot for everything.

Chris Watson (38:09.302)
Wow.

Chris Watson (38:19.434)
How do you build trust with these fixers then? You mentioned cartels, that makes my skin crawl straight away. I know from previous podcasts and reading your book you've been in some right dicey situations at times. How do you build trust with these people then if you haven't really met them before? Is that quite an interesting thing? That sounds quite hair raising in its own right.

Megan Hine (38:48.622)
Definitely, yeah, no, it can be. And I think for me, it's really important. That relationship between myself and the Fix is incredibly important. Quite possibly like the most important relationship that I build on the shows and yeah, building that trust, particularly when we're coming in and for a Fix, if we come in and we make a mistake and it injures somebody or costs somebody their life.

then it also reflects on the fixture and they might lose their ability to be able to work in that country, et cetera. it's building that relationship. Communication goes a huge way trying to understand, you know, a lot of these places that I'm working in, you know, culturally different. So it's that whole curiosity piece is really important to me. So when I'm talking to people, like these first Zoom meetings that I might have before I go out into country to meet them.

It's like being curious, being open-minded to how they operate, know, how they see women. Like, you know, some places I go to, as much as it pains me, women are just not equal and they're not respected. So it's like then, well, okay, well, if that's the case, like, how do we work this? Because our goal is to make a TV show. So how are we going to get around that? So it's constantly kind of thinking those things, but curiosity, communication, respect.

Yeah, because if the TV shows come in and because everything's got the timing's got so tight, they'll be making requests all the way through the filming process and wanting to get stuff or get access to new filming areas like last minute and it's a huge amount of stress and pressure for these people. you know, supporting them as much as possible is really important.

Chris Watson (40:32.659)
Yeah, I find that fascinating, particularly when you get into quite remote areas, with indigenous cultures and stuff like that as well. I had a conversation, the episode hasn't gone live yet, with a chap called Anders Andersen who runs The Wild Tales, yeah, done in Guyana and he was talking about his connections with the YY and stuff. it's amazing what these people do and I think they kind of go unnoticed a little bit.

Megan Hine (40:46.917)
yeah, he's great.

Chris Watson (40:58.73)
behind all the production and all the glitz that goes on. I think it's, you could go down the rabbit hole with that, but I think respect is a big thing, respect and trust. it's good that these, because sometimes Westerners, particularly in the remote jungles, it takes a lot to build up that trust and it's truly fascinating. Yeah, he's a lovely guy, Anders. Yeah.

Megan Hine (41:22.83)
He is, he's brilliant. And I think the thing is, when I first started working in TV, you could like, the TV world held a lot more magic than it does now. you know, so much like last minute, you could go to a landowner and be like, you know, we're a TV show, we're gonna make your land famous and things. And people would jump to help out. But now I think, you know, they've become, there's so much content being made that they've realized that actually we're a pain in the ass. And it's like, we're coming.

Chris Watson (41:40.448)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (41:52.076)
Like we demand lots, we leave a trail of destruction behind us, we disappear and actually it's a lot more hassle a lot of the time than it's worth for a lot of landowners. And also, thankfully all of the productions I've worked on in the many years that I've been doing it, I don't think we've ever had any serious issues with land or pissed anybody off to the point where we would never be allowed back.

And again, that's down to that communication respect. But there are certainly productions and there's particular cultures that go in and really destroy an area or make the locals lives really uncomfortable. And then that stops other companies having access or other productions having access. Yeah, so I think you've got to be really mindful to that as well.

Chris Watson (42:46.484)
Have you ever experienced hostilities in or, in fact what's your story about you get shot at somewhere didn't you?

Megan Hine (42:56.366)
Yeah, we've had a couple of experiences with that, but one of them was actually we out in Kenya and we were filming, well, we were actually in the set up. It was the day before we were about to film and we, myself and two guys, we were setting up this rope bridge challenge. We were building this rope bridge out of this hemp rope, which is like a nightmare. like, it's just so big and like leaves.

crap in your hands and like in these hot humid environments and ends up getting infected. But we were just like rigging this bridge across this gorge. And I was one side I was just finishing off making the anchor points and just securing it all one side and I was just actually just making like a little video of because that's what I tend to do because the next day we come in and it all moves so quickly that it's like, I suppose it's what you call it athletes do with like, like envisioning like

the visualizing, there we go, and it's like so then I'll practice it over and over in my head so the next day when I go through as we're going through so quickly I can just clip everything in where it's needed to go and I was just doing that and like gunshots broke out around me and it was like ricocheting off the sand like next to me and so I dove into this little cave bit that was there and it was there for a few minutes and then it kind of

Chris Watson (43:55.158)
specialise. Yeah.

Megan Hine (44:24.238)
swung around above us in the gorge so I was able to kind of leg it down and like kind slid down into the water at the bottom and sort of climbed up the other side and it's like these water-worn cliffs like really smooth. I managed to get out the other side and into this cave where the other guys were waiting and it just kind of went on it was like kind of bouncing off the roof of the cave and then it kind of died down and we were able to get off down river and then back around to where we got the Land Cruiser parked.

and got back and what had happened is it was actually nothing to do with us at all though in that moment you're just like what is going on is that there were two tribes and it was during the that was serious I think it have been 2017 when it was that real serious drought that was happening out there and one tribe had stolen a load of goats from another tribe and they had then been tracked down

And meanwhile, the local Rangers had set an ambush. So it was like three parties shooting at each other. And we just happened to be right in the very middle of it. So it was just, yeah, an unfortunate thing. But again, it's like that lack of communication from the, you know, the local Rangers back to the production, because they would have known that we were filming there. Yeah, that hadn't happened there.

Chris Watson (45:40.726)
That's unbelievable. Have you been shot at since? Good. Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, As cliché as it sounds, what's the craziest situation you've been in? Is that it then? Or have you had wilder situations?

Megan Hine (45:45.844)
Not since then, no, I tend not to, try not to make a habit of it.

Megan Hine (46:05.43)
I think there's, I mean, there's the inherent nature of like these environments that you work in. You there are like, you know, it's big animals, there's things, but it's actually, it's people that scare me the most in, you know, in these environments and having that awareness, but also like the microbes and the bacteria and things that are in the water, like particularly going to places like the Amazon. And actually I had Lyme disease that I...

picked up and that was actually in the UK. Yeah, and that was a long time ago now, so I think it was back in 2006 that I picked up a tick here and had contracted Lyme disease off of this tick and I didn't realise how serious it was and I had a month off of work and I went climbing in the Alps and...

Chris Watson (46:36.79)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (46:55.982)
I remember just being like curled at the bottom of a crag with these horrible migraines, which I'd never had before. And this kind of bullseye rash that was spreading all over my body. And I knew what I had, I just didn't know how serious it was. And I managed to put it into my central nervous system. And it took, took like, yeah, over a year to get it back out again. And I had like facial paralysis and all sorts of it. And it was just, it was horrible. It was really, really horrible.

And yeah, so I think it's that sort of thing and having that understanding, know, it's like we're joking about the butterfly in my foot. But you know, thank goodness it was something quite benign because you get there's some horrible things out there like leishmaniasis, malaria, all these horrible diseases that exist in some of these places that actually need to be really, really aware of and I think I've been incredibly fortunate.

Chris Watson (47:29.269)
day.

Chris Watson (47:43.892)
Yeah, I think there's a real important message there about Lyme disease and I think we are just coming out, coming out this summer and probably dying off a little bit in the UK, you know, ticks but you know, it is still for anyone that does have exposure to that, I think it's worth, you know, being Lyme disease aware because it's more prevalent in the UK than people think and it's, yeah, and it's just a horrible

It's a horrible way that that works cause you think it's dying away and you get bouts of it don't you after like it goes away for like weeks and months and then it kind of flares back up again so it's quite a thing to eradicate but yeah.

Megan Hine (48:17.706)
Yeah, I think I know it has like, it's a four week breathing cycle. So it's like the fourth week, you just feel awful. But I when I've spoken to people, they're just like, you never that never goes away. I managed to I'm, I managed to get rid of it. You know, and I had it really badly. I managed to get rid of it. I demand you know, I thankfully, you know, I don't only had it for a couple of months before I got treatment. And then I was like, really focused on it. So I'd imagine if you haven't been diagnosed, and you've had it for years and years.

Chris Watson (48:21.118)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (48:45.366)
trying to get rid of it would be incredibly difficult. But I think what it did do was put my body under a lot of stress and triggered an autoimmune disease, which may have come on later in life, but doesn't usually come on in your 20s.

Chris Watson (48:57.226)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (49:01.142)
mean hazards of the job I suppose but yeah, see in terms of like the threat of like, I mean you talked about leishmanitis and things like you know water borne diseases and stuff, how do you deal with that in the field? know, make sure you've got access to fresh water and cleansing and stuff like that. Do you take, as part of your kit, do you take in with you or is it just a matter of boiling and filtering or? Yeah.

Megan Hine (49:23.904)
Yeah, so it's a mix and I think water is something that catches everybody out. It really is and it's not worth the risk of it. what I'm really clear about with anybody that we're traveling with is unless it's the UK or somewhere where you know that water is treated to the same level that we might experience in the UK is not to ingest tap water.

And that includes like brushing your teeth, being careful when you're in the shower and just being really aware of that. So always having like bottled water or treated water by your sink ready to, because I know there's people that say, they'll drink the tap water and it will sort them out, but it's just not worth it. Like things like jar deer and other nasties can live in the system for years before they become a parent. And because of the way that we live in very clinical

society our bodies just aren't used to dealing with those and it's just it's just not worth it. So I always carry water treatment with me so if I'm going really remote then I'm carrying like a filter that is able to filter the water so take out any debris out of the water but also treat it or I'm carrying chlorine drops with me or I'm boiling it.

So I'm always treating it and I'm always very careful with things like ice as well and things like salads if you're travelling because often salads are washed in and fruit as well are washed in tap water. So it's just being really aware of those things and those risks.

Chris Watson (51:03.062)
Yeah, fantastic. Great bit of advice. Can I switch in over a little bit in terms of like returning from... because you bounce around a lot, don't you Megan, from different environments, whether it's guiding or the TV show, so you know, could be in the jungle one month and the Arctic the next. Do you have different bags packed that says Arctic, jungle, desert? How does that work? Because you must be like... yeah.

Megan Hine (51:29.39)
I actually do. because I was wanting to do because I have like, I've got storage here. And I was actually wanting to do this in our storage area so I could actually show you. But I couldn't figure out how to get the the Wi Fi connected over there. But yes, I do. there was obviously there's like, there's certain bits of kit that go from one environment to the next to the next. And then there's like a specific kit and clothing.

Chris Watson (51:42.43)
Megan Hine (51:56.526)
that is jungle specific or high mountain specific or Arctic specific, et cetera. So yeah, we've kind of got like bits for each of those. And then we've got all like the rigging kits as well. Like so for going off on shows, we've got a lot of medical kit and equipment now as well. So that's the side of things that we've been building up. My husband's a doctor, so it's great because he's our medical advisor, which is awesome.

Chris Watson (52:01.856)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (52:25.77)
which means that we can carry some stronger medications and drugs with us and get access to healthcare that we wouldn't necessarily have had in the past and we've got that reach back service through him and some of his colleagues as well which is really cool. So we've got some really cool toys here.

Chris Watson (52:29.664)
Yes.

Chris Watson (52:43.102)
Yeah, excellent. Does your husband Josh, does he come on some of your expeditions and stuff then as like the medical consultant or is that what he does? No.

Megan Hine (52:53.162)
He hasn't done yet. No, he's so he is remote for us. He's actually he's an anethetist, but he's in the military. But he's currently undertaking a PhD in human performance. So particularly looking at the Royal Marines in arduous activity. So was up in northern Norway for three months beginning of the year with them. And then he's continuing those studies. And it's really fascinating.

Chris Watson (52:58.633)
Right, OK.

Megan Hine (53:21.496)
but looking at how the body reacts in extreme environments.

Chris Watson (53:25.366)
Yeah, cause he put a little, I think it was a three or four part thing on Instagram, like stories about the heat exposure and what that does to the body as well, which I found really fascinating. So excellent. So question, how do you manage like post expedition recovery, decompression, if you're jumping around between, know, does Megan ever get to go on holiday or just sit and read a book or how do you deal with that? It must be full on.

Megan Hine (53:34.659)
Yes.

Megan Hine (53:52.446)
Yeah, I pre-COVID I'd literally got to the point where I was burning out like my doctor just diagnosed me with burnout just as COVID hit. So for me it was like a relief because you know I guess I'm one of those people that keeps going and going and I find it incredibly hard to stop and it's like you know the next adventure comes and it's like that is amazing I need to go and do that and it's you know it

When I was younger, I didn't really think about it. I was going from one environment to the next and I was often managing multiple projects. So I'd go to one of them, I'd go backwards and I'd go back and forth and then onto the next. I would never really come home. I didn't really have a base as such. And yeah, you don't realize the effects of jet lag, of long hours working because, like I said earlier, it's like, I'm working 24 hours a day. I'm on call 24 hours a day.

I can be up any time in the day or night. Often we're doing night shoots as well, so it's really disrupted. And it's a huge amount of pressure and the responsibility for, originally when I started working it was like 20 people in the train. Now I'm responsible for 350, 400 people out there, knowing where they all are and what they're doing at all times. Your head's all over the place. So I've just actually just come back from sort of six months away.

And I've just had a week where I just haven't been able to function. I think because I'd stopped and I told my brain I'd stopped and it's just like brain just went into standby mode. And it's only like as of yesterday that I think it's like starting to power up again. But yeah, it's definitely like what the stimulation and things it's so once you stop, it's like kind of catches up with you. And then yeah, we need to contact with the outside world isn't quite so great.

Chris Watson (55:39.83)
What's it like when you see the dogs when you come back then? That must be beautiful. Yeah, yeah.

Megan Hine (55:45.87)
it's amazing. Yeah, they're awesome. I mean, like the older ones so used to this lifestyle, because both of them actually were rescue dogs. The older one we've had since she was eight weeks, she was a puppy, but she was a rescue from a travel camp. And yeah, she's got very used to this lifestyle. And I've got this amazing support network. But the new one, yeah, she gets a little she's

was little bit more disrupted by me being away. Yeah.

Chris Watson (56:17.334)
Yeah, excellent. So switching lanes a little bit, just conscious of timing. I wanted to touch on a little bit about your book. We've probably touched on a lot of these themes as we've kind been chatting, but there was a couple of things that struck me in that, in terms of the survival rule of three and your strategies for coping with fear. And I think you mentioned about singing or something, which I'll come back to later. And the stop.

principle sorry, know heuristic risks or heuristic traps and stuff in the stock principle and the survival rule of three, maybe if you could just bring that to life, Megan, for people that may not understand that and hopefully can be a little bit more educated.

Megan Hine (57:01.506)
Yeah, sure. Yeah, these are things that I'm like super nerdy about. So I could talk about these days, which I'll try not to do. Yeah, so the survival rule of three is like a generalized rule that allows somebody that's in a survival situation to be able to kind of help prioritize what's important in that moment. Because when you find yourself in that moment, it's like, it's so overwhelming. It's like, well, what do need to do? So it comes from the American military. And they say that

Chris Watson (57:04.446)
Yeah. Yeah.

Megan Hine (57:31.838)
that the human body can go for three minutes without air, three hours without shelter, three days without water, three weeks without food. So I think, you you find yourself in these survival situations and a lot of people panic and think they need to eat because we're so used to feeding our bodies all the time. And actually, you know, the priority in the situation is not necessarily food. It's going to be, know, particularly a temperate environment is going to be shelter, getting yourself some shelter. If it's a desert, hot environment, then it might be water.

So it's kind of adapting that those survival rules of three. And then I have like, I've got two more that I like to teach. So one is three months without company. As humans, we need other people around us. We're very social creatures. And if we don't have that interaction, and this is something to think about, for those of us, you know, if you're working online, you don't ever need to actually physically interact with anybody anymore. So those three months, you can start, your mental health starts declining.

and three seconds without thinking. Because a lot of these environments that I go to, if you switch off for a second, that could cost you your life or get you into trouble. So staying switched on and it's very easy when you're tired and stressed and overwhelmed for the brain to kind of try to switch off and that's when accidents happen. And then STOP is an acronym that I use. I use it for everyday life, but I also use it in the world as well. teach it.

is stop, think, observe, plan. So the best, I suppose the best analogy that I have for this is that if you are wandering along a trail and you stop to go to the toilet and you wander off the trail and you do your business and you pull up your trousers and you look around and you can't see the trail and it's in that moment the fight, flight, response hits, you that adrenaline, you're just like, shit, where's the path? my gosh, I've lost it. You know, I'm really remote.

I've lost the path and that's when people make a major mistake of then like running around and like crazy and disappear and then they lose the path completely and it gets them into a lot of trouble. Whereas actually in that moment, if you stop and then you take a breath, try to calm down, get back the parasympathetic nervous system back in so that the body and mind start calming back down, get rid of that flush of hormones and chemicals that have come through when that fight, flight, freeze response is hit.

Megan Hine (59:58.542)
And then you can think, get back into logic and reasoning. you know, are there any indicators of where the trail might be? there any clearings? Are there any footprints that I've made coming to here? You know, really like the logic logical part of my brain is like, well, I'm only 50 feet away from the trail. It's got to be here. And then so I observe, I have a look around, look for those footprints, look for any broken branches, look for anything. And then I still can't see anything. So then I make a plan. So

okay logic dictates the path's only 50 feet away how am I going to make sure that I bisect it so concentric circles ever wider or squares and then at some point you're going to hit that path and it's something I encourage anybody to do that gets overwhelmed you know we get that email that's like really triggering

and you just want to be like right back to them or just be like and actually you you stop and you think about it and you're like actually I've interpreted this completely wrong or hang on a minute let's stay with curiosity and find out why they're annoyed or like what this actually means and then make a bit of a plan of how to deal with it so so we don't react to stuff within that kind of like headless chicken manner

Chris Watson (01:00:56.789)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:01:12.246)
I'll try and take that on board when I go back to work tomorrow. Fantastic. I think you're a big supporter of people getting educated in trains, particularly going out into the world where it's all too common, the stories from Mountain Rescue about people being unprepared and things. So I'm hoping that people take heed of some of these messages and get inspired to be...

go and do a bit more education on some of this as well to keep themselves and others safe when they're out having fun in the wild. Excellent, kind of almost coming up on time into what would be bit respectful, very respectful of your time actually. Question, is there any unrealised adventures or expeditions that you would love to do that you haven't done yet? Lots, yeah.

Megan Hine (01:02:08.11)
Lots, lots and lots. Yeah, I think at the moment, I'm really interested to see where I can take my company. As you said, it's like education and you know, part of making an accessible accessible is actually, it's not just about, you know, accessing remote wilderness environments. It's also, you know, making an industry more accessible for other people as well. And yeah, we're currently in the process of

renting premises where we can actually run some courses and events from and things. So hopefully, you know, that's the next step of our evolution is with that and actually physically being able to support other people more as well. That's the plan.

Chris Watson (01:02:49.61)
But whereabouts in the world would that be if people wanted to get involved in that when it comes to life?

Megan Hine (01:02:58.158)
So we've got one in the UK that we're currently in negotiations around and then we're hoping then to have one out in the US as well, which are the main places where we mostly operate out of the US. So that would make sense there. But because of the US at the moment has got there's a lot of regulations around guilds and things out there that a lot of US companies are actually employing British, Australian.

filmmakers.

Chris Watson (01:03:28.766)
Yeah, is that going to be a mix of like, kind of classroom and fieldwork type training that you're going to offer?

Megan Hine (01:03:36.31)
Yes, yeah, yeah, so, because I think what I'd to say, actually bringing people together is really important because on these, a lot of the times on these shoots, it's like you come together for, you know, a week, three months, whatever long the job is, and then everybody disappears off again, and you never see them again. But there's some amazing like creative ideas and, you know, to be able to have a space where, you we can connect and bounce creative ideas as well.

and see, because I think the industry is an exciting and kind of scary point at the moment where it's evolving. I did a show for a big YouTuber this year as well. And that was for me because I was interested to see how that compared to traditional filmmaking. So it's interesting at the moment to see where, like which direction like filmmaking goes. So actually being able to have space where people can bounce ideas is would be awesome.

Chris Watson (01:04:30.518)
It is an interesting point because like, you know, for all the pros and cons, or know, quite a lot of cons about social media and stuff, but if you look at like the platforms, you know, you look at prevalent like Netflix, Amazon and things like that are now away from traditional TV and the rise of like, you know, like influencer YouTubers and stuff, you know, I think there was a thing just fairly recently with I think Xander, is it Budnik or Brudnik, the survivalist of...

wilderness guy in the U.S. think Canadian might be actually doing him a real disservice here but he went on a survival, he went to Anders Anderson's five day survival thing in Guyana where he had to be self sufficient to build his shelter and stuff and he's a massive YouTuber so it's interesting to see that that's starting to kind of bleed into that space a little bit. It'll be interesting to see where that goes. Yeah, excellent. So I think what...

well over time and apologies for kind of just kind of... yeah.

Megan Hine (01:05:30.658)
No, it's good. It's great to be able to chat. It's like, quite happily chat about these things all day. don't worry about me.

Chris Watson (01:05:35.926)
Yeah, yeah, how do you... So let me ask another question then. And I said I would ask questions, I wanted it to be conversational, but I'm getting really curious about stuff. in terms of your leadership styles over, because you started quite young in the industry, then you've had a lot of experience. How do you think you've matured or your attitude to risk? How has that evolved over time?

Megan Hine (01:06:02.838)
Yeah, so I guess leadership has evolved and people are always like, there's always discussion about leaders born or are they made? I do think there's an element of both, but mostly they're made and it comes through a lot of experience. And I guess this is what I see. And this is maybe as many positives as the social media world has. I think one of the negatives is that everything is at the, you know,

tip of our thumbs, like all the information, everything, and suddenly people can be experts, you know, using chat GPT or, you know, whatever they're And it's like, you know, actually like the hard graph that it takes to become a leader. And I think leadership is something that you're always evolving and is because every single person that you deal with responds to you in a different way. And some people, you know, just won't vibe with your leadership style.

Chris Watson (01:06:40.042)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (01:07:01.774)
So I tend to fluctuate now. There are times when I have to be really direct and get the job done. But what I try to do as much as possible is strive for autonomy and allowing, because there's the three things that help build individuals in a team are competency, belonging and autonomy.

So, you know, if you're taking away or micromanaging somebody, you're taking away their autonomy, you're taking away their sense of competency. And people have to make mistakes as long as it's safe to do so, you know, within parameters of safety. People need to make that you don't learn unless you make mistakes. So, yes, that's really important to me. And then not taking things personally, because

the higher you climb up and once you come into that leadership position, there is a lot of jealousy and envy that comes with that. And it can be quite hard when you're working with a team and just like, just want you to like me. it's like, and there's a lot of jealousy or it's the thought of thought that, whether it's gender or whether it's just a part of the process of what she doing in that position.

Whereas actually, you know, it's been 20 years in the making to get to there and it's been a lot of, you know, tears and frustration that has allowed me to be in that position and actually, you know, I'm here to work with you, not against you. Let's just work together.

Chris Watson (01:08:31.894)
Yeah, ego and sexism and things. They always rear their ugly head at times. I think trying not to take things personally must be really tough in these environments.

Megan Hine (01:08:45.825)
Yep.

Megan Hine (01:08:49.613)
Particularly when you're tired. When you're tired, you've been on the go for months. also, know, a lot of the times, the TV industries are really, you know, that and the outdoor industry are only industries I know, so I'm sure it happens in every industry. But it's one of those weird industries that, although I've been in it for a long time, you never fully feel like you've ever got your foot in the door. It's like you've just kind of got the crack there. And it's like you never really feel like you've gone through it. And it's such a fickle industry.

Chris Watson (01:09:00.191)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:09:06.475)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (01:09:15.864)
that yeah, just like, just want to work with supportive people now because having that thing behind of you, because I've been in teams where there's like so much politics and you're just so worried the whole time that somebody is going to stab you in the back because they're desperate to get next to that presenter or that celebrity or, and it's just like, I'm here to do the job. I'm not really interested in that side of it.

Chris Watson (01:09:26.974)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:09:36.022)
I going to say there must be a lot of manipulation that goes on in that because people can get very fame hungry can't they and in trying to get into it, yeah I can imagine that being quite difficult.

Megan Hine (01:09:44.334)
Yeah, it's interesting because I've worked with some really big celebrities and they are usually super, super lovely people and they're incredible because they're at the top of their game. But it's often the people around them or the people that wanting to get around them that cause a lot of problems. And yeah, you just have to be really aware of that and very careful with how you tread because they often need a fall guy.

and you just want to avoid it being you as much as possible.

Chris Watson (01:10:15.894)
Yeah. Do you have gatekeepers a lot of the time? Because you've dealt with some major A-listers and without putting you on the spot or anything like that. But do they come with entourages and gatekeepers and stuff like that? How is that working dynamic?

Megan Hine (01:10:31.21)
Yeah, I mean, actually, I haven't had any issues with that. I mean, you just gotta be careful with the people around, but yes, there are definitely gatekeepers in the industry. I've definitely had some very strange experiences over the years with people following my career far too intently and causing me problems.

But I'd imagine that, you know, I'd imagine most people in a career path will have had similar characters. But yeah, it's really weird. So actually somebody came to light earlier in this year that obviously been following my career for a very long time. And yeah, trying to do a fair bit of damage behind the scenes. And it's just like, you know, what do you do? Do you combat that? Or do you just carry on and just do your thing? And I think really that's the only thing you can do. Just continue being yourself, being consistent, showing up.

Chris Watson (01:11:02.838)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:11:20.15)
Nyeh.

Megan Hine (01:11:27.406)
and try not picking a fight, because it'd be so easy to make a big thing and stuff, but it's actually, and we're going to back up what they're saying or what they're trying to achieve. Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:11:35.048)
Yeah, the biggest power is keeping your own counsel and just doing your own thing. mean, jealousy and things like that, it's a horrible thing and it happens in all walks of life. yeah, there's more power to keeping your own shit together and your control and not rising to that. As hard as that probably sounds. is, yeah. Question, how do you find dealing with celebrities versus...

the every man or woman when you're in, do you find that difficult? mean, do you ever get starstruck when you're dealing with some of these people?

Megan Hine (01:12:12.334)
I've only ever been starstruck once. yeah, but no, it's really important because of the role I'm often working very closely with them and I you know, I'm dangling them out of helicopters or, you know, touching them to rock faces and pushing them. And so it's really important for me to see them as people. And it's been absolutely amazing actually through some of the work I've done. It's like, you know, I've spent, end up then like being myself camping out with like the two on screen.

Chris Watson (01:12:24.864)
Yeah.

Megan Hine (01:12:41.708)
celebrities and it's just, the most incredible gift because you're dealing with somebody, you know, if you take away, you know, the idolism and everything that, you know, people put them on this pedestal, if you take that away, you're dealing with somebody who is incredibly successful in their career and they are so interesting, like their journey to get there, you know, their ideas and their thoughts and, you know, all the shit that they have to deal with as well on a daily basis. And you just realise, you know, they're just like the rest of us.

They've got the same insecurities, the same worries, the same dreams and hopes. But they've got this extra layer of stress because they need to look perfect. Their faces get put in the media and get torn apart. It's just awful. It has all your insides.

Chris Watson (01:13:27.478)
Yeah, it is. There's just people at the end of the day, aren't they? It's mad. Ask that question because me doing this, because I'm not in your space, I'm not in the adventure. kind of pinky halfway in, you know, I'm like kind of touching it and running the podcast and doing my own thing. But there's a couple of people that I've had on that I was kind of a bit starstruck as well. it's like because they said yes to the interview and then, you know, trying to prepare for it and trying.

not to overthink it and get overwhelmed and stuff and then you just kinda get into the conversation and things just become really natural and you just realise that they're just an ordinary person at end of the day but they've maybe spent 200 days in space or something and it's just like, it's just weird, it's such a weird thing.

Megan Hine (01:14:13.172)
Yeah, definitely. again, it's that building up trust and having that communication. it's like, you know, I've like, I never take selfies with somebody I'm working with, because instantly, as soon as you do that, you're like, you're taking them out of their bubble. So what you're trying to do is like, this bubble for them, where this is like reality, and you know, they're to feel safe, they, know, safe physically and emotionally in that environment. Yeah, so those things, yeah, like would never take a selfie in those situations with with them, because it breaks that bubble.

Chris Watson (01:14:20.351)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:14:26.666)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:14:39.691)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Megan Hine (01:14:42.734)
And also, you you do have to respect the fact that, you know, they are also a seborrady and, you know, some of them maybe are used to having other people doing lots of things for them. And actually, how can we facilitate a smooth trip and adventure for them?

Chris Watson (01:14:53.547)
year.

Chris Watson (01:14:58.981)
Who was it you can't doubt with if you don't mind me asking?

Megan Hine (01:15:02.742)
I've camped out with quite a lot actually because I was part of the Running Wild team with Bear and I don't know what season they're on now but I did like six and half seasons, seven seasons with like if you think it's like eight to ten episodes per season that's a lot of people.

Chris Watson (01:15:03.84)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:15:19.412)
Wow, God Christ. Wow, you've probably touched most of Hollywood then, considering the people that were on that. Fantastic. Is there anybody you would love to camp with that you haven't yet?

Megan Hine (01:15:32.462)
there's definitely a few people. There's a few people that I'd love to bring together and have a campfire chat with, yeah, for sure.

Chris Watson (01:15:41.332)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, excellent, excellent. Right, cause we're way over time and I do want to be respectful, so we will move into the closing traditions that I've got on the show, of which there are three. So, the first is a paid forward suggestion for a worthy cause of project and a call to adventure. Then I'm gonna quick fire fun some 10 questions that you don't know you haven't been prompted on, so we'll see how that goes.

So, yeah, so pay it forward, Megan, an opportunity to raise awareness for any worthy causes, projects, or anything that may be important to you or your team. What would you recommend as a pay it forward suggestion?

Megan Hine (01:16:24.714)
So as a Scout ambassador, definitely UK Scouting 100%. Like what they do for young people and for leaders is just incredible and there are so many young people on the waiting list that if you want to get into adventure and you want to go and have these amazing experiences and have fun, then think about becoming a volunteer Scout leader. You get amazing support and there's some amazing opportunities and we need you.

Chris Watson (01:16:53.904)
Excellent, excellent. And I see that kind of Bear Grylls has kind of moved on from his leadership with the scouting. And it's Dwayne Fields now, isn't it, the scout leader? Yeah, is indeed. Yeah, fantastic. So, and the next is a call to adventure. So a recommendation for an adventure activity, place or something to get people inspired.

doesn't need to be jumping out a helicopter or dangling wranglers from ropes or you know getting shot at in Africa so what would you recommend as a call to adventure?

Megan Hine (01:17:31.886)
stop procrastinating and just step out of your front door. Like there are some amazing places, like even if you're in the middle of a city somewhere, there's some incredible green spaces or hop on a train and you know within 30 minutes you can be in the UK countryside and it's just incredible. So just go out there do it. you want to, if you're interested in climbing go and join a climbing wall, go climbing, you know just go out there and do that. I know it's easier said than done but you know those dreams will just stay as dreams unless you actually step out of your front door and go and do it.

And the UK is one of the best environments for doing this because everything is so accessible. we have, know, in Scotland, you've got the right to roam. In Wales, you can go off into the mountains. Like, there's just some incredible places around within a short distance.

Chris Watson (01:18:16.618)
Yeah, exactly that. People don't realise how wild parts of the UK actually are. It's incredible. Thank you. That's been fun. So this is the final segment, quickfire. So this is the Q &A interview section, so 10 questions. I need to remind myself what they are. So the first one, if you were to host a dinner party and you could invite two guests, dead or alive.

Megan Hine (01:18:31.79)
Yes.

Chris Watson (01:18:46.048)
Who would they be?

Megan Hine (01:18:48.408)
Ooh, that's really tricky. Two, I would love to, Amelia Earhart is one. I'd love to find out what drives her. And, ooh, number two, that's really difficult. I think like my grandmother would be the other one. Yeah. It's sort of such an inspiration for me.

Chris Watson (01:19:10.998)
Ugh.

Chris Watson (01:19:15.254)
Fantastic. Question two, what's the craziest or funniest story or encounter you've ever had?

Megan Hine (01:19:26.574)
I'm so bad at remembering stories. Yeah, there's been so many. think... man, these are tricky. Craziest experience. There's been so many. I'm gonna have to think about that.

Chris Watson (01:19:40.071)
Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:19:51.444)
Yeah, pass. Right, we'll pass on that for now. Three, do you have a hidden talent?

Megan Hine (01:19:58.04)
Do I have a hidden talent? yeah, I've got a poseable thumb so I can like, like... It's quite handy for like...

Chris Watson (01:20:05.502)
really? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Particularly for rigging ropes and stuff I can imagine. Yeah.

Megan Hine (01:20:14.063)
Yes, yeah, I've got to be careful because I can dislocate them quite easily, so I've got to be quite careful.

Chris Watson (01:20:17.854)
Yeah, wow. So number four, assuming you're dropped into a wild location without any equipment with Bear Grylls, who creates the quickest campfire? Bear Grylls or Megan Hine?

Megan Hine (01:20:34.122)
well, I can't really answer that one. We can make one together.

Chris Watson (01:20:40.31)
I thought you would have passed on that. Diplomatic, Favourite movie?

Megan Hine (01:20:50.99)
well Cliffhanger. It's just I mean now you watch it it's like you know as they're making these shows but like that was really like that really inspired me. No no when I was doing a job with Silvester Stallone and it was just like that kept coming up I was like my god you're amazing yeah yeah.

Chris Watson (01:20:53.055)
obvious.

Chris Watson (01:21:01.032)
Yeah, yeah, I've not seen that since I was a young teenager.

Chris Watson (01:21:10.878)
Yeah, no reason. favourite book?

Megan Hine (01:21:17.326)
My favourite book Land of the Long White Cloud which is the book that inspired me initially to adventure.

Chris Watson (01:21:19.486)
Yeah.

Yeah, amazing. Last music gig you went to.

Megan Hine (01:21:29.054)
well, it's not I didn't go to it, but I supposed to be going to Lindsey Stirling. She's like this violinist that like dances and plays the violin like that just blows my mind. How can you be that skilled? Like it's insane.

Chris Watson (01:21:42.208)
Yeah, fantastic. What scares you?

Megan Hine (01:21:49.698)
not living life to my fullest capacity.

Chris Watson (01:21:52.958)
Yeah, fantastic. The best piece of advice you have ever received.

Megan Hine (01:22:01.006)
Er, to... well, one of them is to make sure that whenever I take anything out of my rucksack I zip it up or close it immediately before doing whatever it is with whatever I've taken out and then putting it back in and doing it up because spindrift, insects, snakes, anything can get inside it.

Chris Watson (01:22:19.318)
Excellent. Right, so the final question, if the adventure business ended tomorrow and you had to take up another vocation or career, what would it be and why?

Megan Hine (01:22:37.912)
Well, if I had any say, like, know, was no issue, then I'd learn to sail and go sailing around the world. And just adventure. do I have to? Okay, something unadventurous.

Chris Watson (01:22:39.538)
Yep, yep, yep.

no, that's also adventurous, but I'll let you away with that. No, no, that's fine. sailing's fine. That's fantastic. I think I would do the same, actually. Brilliant. So that was ten questions just to end things on a lighthearted note. So thank you, Megan. That's been wonderful. Thank you very, very much. Actually, any... I mean, the scout leader...

Megan Hine (01:23:08.034)
Never.

Chris Watson (01:23:13.878)
volunteer things a great idea but any particularly as a father of a young daughter and anyone that may be listening to this and intrigued by the industry or you know adventure as a vocation have you any advice you know particularly for females because I mean I'm let's say trying to get my daughter more engaged than us and you know particularly in a male-dominated industry is there any pieces of advice or nuggets that you would you would say to those listening

that might want to encourage themselves or others to get involved.

Megan Hine (01:23:47.374)
Yeah, I mean, it's tricky. think this is where social media is so powerful. And it's like seeing similar people to yourself out doing those things. And I think for a lot of younger girls, because this is a conversation I've had with a few girls actually recently, is that they're watching their hair and makeup tutorials and these beautiful nails and things. And then they're like, well, how can I go outside and get all muddy and,

destroy my nails, but then there's, you know, there's some really amazing female athletes and adventurers that are on social media, you know, that do that crossover. They're not just, you know, just because you're an adventure doesn't mean that you're one thing. You know, that's what, you know, I love being out covered in mud and spending months in the jungle, but I also like dressing up and going to a nice event. And you don't just have to be one thing, you know, we're multifaceted. So, you know, it's about enjoying and embracing the moment.

wherever and I think small steps going out and doing it with people that you enjoy hanging out with or booking onto a course. There's so many courses and they're not overly expensive to hire a guide or an instructor for a day or two, particularly if there's a small group of you that can help take you out and make you feel comfortable in that environment.

Chris Watson (01:25:04.402)
I really like that. It doesn't need to be a binary decision. You don't need to be an adventure or not. Or a make-up artist or not. could be whatever you want.

Megan Hine (01:25:16.204)
Yes, well I have a friend who she's actually an incredible hair and makeup artist. She does a lot of prosthetic stuff as well for film. She's currently working with some major Hollywood people on this incredible project. But when on her weekends she'll go off adventuring, she'll go off climbing and things. You don't have to be one or the other.

Chris Watson (01:25:37.214)
Yeah, I get that with my little girl, she's only nine, but we were climbing in the gym last night and then she's out doing all the make-up and stuff and went to go shopping with my wife, so she gets both from both parents and she's actively involved in both things and it's a really good dynamic, so I fully support. Don't back yourself into a corner, just live life. This has been wonderful, thank you very much Megan.

Megan Hine (01:25:58.284)
Yes. Yeah.

Chris Watson (01:26:04.903)
As always, before we wrap up, where could people find out everything about Megan Hyne and all your adventures and also Psych Media Solutions? Where can they go to learn more?

Megan Hine (01:26:16.174)
Instagram is a good place. At Megan underscore Hein is yeah you can follow along and I love hearing other people's adventures as well and what people are up to.

Chris Watson (01:26:28.766)
Yeah, wonderful. We'll get all that linked and tagged and stuff when it goes live. Thank you. I'll bring it to a close.

just press.

Stop.