Tom Turcich: The World Walk, 7 Years, 6 Continents & 28,000 Miles step by step

🎙️ Please make sure to click the 'Follow' the show – It really helps the show, Thanks!

What happens when you stop chasing life... and start walking through it—one step at a time?

In this deeply personal and wide-ranging conversation, I sit down with Tom Turcich, the tenth person ever to walk around the world—and the first to do it with a dog. Over the course of seven years, six continents, and nearly 30,000 kilometers, Tom and his rescue pup Savannah navigated deserts, war zones, snowfields, mountains, and megacities. But what they really explored was the human condition—mortality, solitude, fear, love, and how to find peace in just existing.

What began as a response to the sudden death of a close friend transformed into a global odyssey—one that asked more questions than it answered. We talk about:

• The real reason he chose to walk the world
• What fear actually feels like in the middle of Central America
• Training Savannah into the perfect walking companion
• Living through exhaustion, sickness, and uncertainty—and what it teaches you
• Why photography became his gateway to connection
• Letting go of social media, letting go of ego, and letting life just be
• What he thinks about adventure now, in his post-walk life

From the wilds of the Atacama to the stillness of Antarctica, from dusty roads to TEDx stages, this is a reflection on what it means to live intentionally, with humility and grace.

If you’ve ever questioned your path—or wondered what lies on the other side of fear—this one is for you.

🔗 Resources & Mentions

• 📖 The World Walk by Tom Turcich – Buy it here
• 🐶 Savannah, the dog who walked the world – @theworldwalk
• 📹 Tom’s TEDx Talk – Watch on YouTube
• 
  

✨ Key Themes

Adventure & Fear – Walking into the unknown with no backup plan
Solitude & Resilience – What it means to be your own best company
The Bond with Savannah – How a dog can become your home
Slow Travel & Privilege – Seeing the world at human pace
Letting Go – Of productivity, ambition, and becoming “more”

🎙️ Please make sure to click the 'Follow' the show – It really helps the show, Thanks!

Chapters

• 0:00 Facing Mortality: The Start of an Epic Journey
• 1:03 Introducing the Adventure Diaries Podcast
• 1:26 Meet Tom TurcichThe Man Who Walked the World
• 3:15 Tom's Early Life and the Catalyst for Adventure
• 5:49 The Impact of Anne-Marie's Death
• 10:18 Embracing Fear and the Call to Adventure
• 12:45 Planning the World Walk
• 14:52 Overcoming Fear and Language Barriers
• 22:53 Navigating Challenges and Building Resilience
• 28:31 Staying Connected and Reflecting on the Journey
• 30:46 The Role of Social Media and Photography
• 35:13 Public Speaking and Sharing the Experience
• 39:29 The Importance of Walking and Exploring
• 40:26 Morning Walks and Dog Benefits
• 40:49 Adopting Savannah: The Journey Begins
• 45:56 Training and Bonding with Savannah
• 50:19 Savannah's Health Challenges and Adventures
• 54:01 Reflections on the Journey
• 58:27 Life After the Walk
• 1:06:00 Closing Thoughts and Traditions

Transcript

 It was, it was scary initially walking through Mexico and El Salvador and Guatemala and Honduras and all those things. And I knew going into this that, you know, there's a chance that I go out there and I don't make it back. And, you know, who knows? You never know what could happen. But because I knew that death is gonna come and it doesn't matter when it comes, it gave me a sort of recklessness, which allowed me to embrace life more fully and take risks maybe that I wouldn't if I was more fearful.

When Savannah and I were at 15,000 feet up in the Al Plano in between Chile and Argentina, and I collapsed from exhaustion and Savannah came and laid beside me and it was just like this perfect moment of how far reflecting on how far we've come and just, it was just a, a beautiful moment that we got to share and.

That I had pushed my body to the point of collapse, and I knew where my physical limit was, and that was it. 

Welcome to the Adventure Diaries Podcast, where we share tales of adventure, connection, and exploration from the smallest of creators to the larger than life adventurers. We hope their stories inspire you to go create your own extraordinary adventures.

And now your host, Chris Watson. Chris Watson. 

Welcome to another episode of The Adventure Diaries. Today we're joined by Tom Turcich, the 10th person ever to walk around the world, and the first to do it with a dog by his side. What started after the sudden death of a very close friend became a seven year, six continent quest for meaning, resilience, and connection.

And along the way, Tom faced incredible terrains, including war zones, armed encounters, illness, and months of solitude. But also absolute beauty, acts of kindness from strangers. An unshakable bond that he built with his rescue dog, Savannah, his loyal companion, his world walk may have concluded, but what Tom has learned about meaning, about fear, about love, and about home is absolutely timeless.

So settle in and enjoy this fantastic conversation with Tom Turcich. So Tom Turcich, welcome to the Adventure Diaries. How are you? 

Great. Thanks for having me Chris. Good pronunciation on the last name. Very impressive. Yay. 

Excellent. Thank you very much. So we're off to a good start. Firstly, as, as I said, that is an honor to have you here being so excited about this.

We've kind of connected a lot, you know, a good few months back now, but you are kind enough to, to kinda share the book with me, which I've gone through and it's fantastic. And as a way of framing up today, we want to get into the World War. The adventure. But as I said, kinda want to try and maybe navigate a little bit more into Savannah's story as well.

The dog that walked the world as well. The first and only, and we'll kind of talk a little bit about her legacy and stuff, but maybe where we usually start with the show is bringing it right back to kinda understand. Let's understand, you know, the catalyst, which is well documented for the story is, you know, the tragedy with your friend Anne Marie.

But maybe before we kinda step into that, I'd like to understand what was it like for Tom before that as a youngster? What were you like as a person? Kinda formative experiences? Did you have any grand plans about adventure or the wide world? 

I don't think I did until Annemarie passed and she passed when I was 17 and she was 16.

But no, I mean, I lived a very idyllic young life. You know, I grew up, like it says in the book, a couple blocks from the river. Little house. My parents, you know, middle class, maybe slightly upper middle class. And I had a bunch of kids my age in the neighborhood and we would play knockout basketball before school and then we walk to school together.

And then a little older we would play video games, you know, after school, play halo and need for speed, all those, all that good stuff. And so I lived a really, you know, pristine upbringing. My parents were fantastic. My mom is an artist or was an artist. She at the time was working for Tyco and then Mattel, designing toys.

And then my dad was a caterer. So in our garage we had two big freezers filled with shrimp and steak and every other food you could imagine. So we ate very well. And he's a salesman, so he is very personable and kind of a golden retriever. So, you know, we grew up in this very loving, kind of friendly household and.

I didn't know. I didn't have any grand designs, I don't think for most of my life I was just going through life. In whichever direction I was being nudged. And then, yeah, it wasn't really until Anne-Marie passed that I realized I should and could direct my own life and then really was forced to reflect on what that meant to me.

And then how do I go about making that happen, deciding what I want and then making that happen. But yeah, I'd say in the younger life it was just a lot of video games, playing with my friends and eating some good food. 

Yeah, need for speeds. That was a classic. I loved a bit of need for speed. Not so much halo I never really get into to Halo, but a need for speeds.

Yeah. And I'm gonna plug this straight away so the World walk, go and get it, read it, listen to all the other podcasts as well. It's a fantastic, it's a captivating story. I love the grand, a grand meditation One Step at a Time is, is very apt. And I like the structure of the book as well, like the kinda shorter short chapters as well.

And it kinda keeps you going. It keeps you going. So I think I highly recommend it. So, and you touched on it there, the catalysts being annemarie's, tragedy. Were you 17 or was she 17? Were you born? I was 

17 and she was 16. She's a year younger. Yeah, 

a year younger. Obviously that made a massive impact, but had you experienced any sort of loss or grief or was that the first real life event that you had?

Yeah, that was the first real big life event that I had, especially regarding death. So it, it was pretty amazing that I went through 17 years and didn't really have any sort of trauma in that way. And as I write about in the book, and as I've spoke about before, I thought about death a lot, probably, and I don't know, I mean, who's to say if it was more than other kids, but I feel like I thought about death a lot when I was growing up.

I remember laying in bed and I would try and imagine death by staying perfectly still and closing my eyes, covering my ears, and trying to have no thoughts. Then realizing you can't not have thoughts when you're alive and then in death there are no thoughts. And then I would freak out and eventually I gave up on trying to imagine what death was like as I think most people do.

You just accept it as something that is so far removed and something so abstract. And hi 

everyone. Chris here with just a wee reminder. If you've been enjoying the stories here on the Adventure Diaries, could you please take a moment to press that follow or subscribe button on Spotify on Apple Podcasts?

It's such a small thing, but it makes such a huge difference to the show. It helps the show reach more ears, brings more voices to the table, and really helps keep this adventure going. So if you're up for more wild stories, more adventures, and more thoughtful conversations, then please hit that follow button on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

And thanks for being here and spending time with us today. It is really appreciated. So hit that follow button and now let's get back to this episode 

Different from life that it's easy to just put aside and not think about. And then, yeah, em Marie Pass. And all of a sudden it became very immediate and it became this pressing realization that death can come at any moment.

And so it was going from having set death aside to it really becoming all consuming and realizing how important it was that I make the most of every day. The Carpe Diem at the time was really just doing everything I possibly could. And then eventually you realize you only have so much energy and you only have so much time in the day, so you have to choose what you want to do.

And now it's evolved maybe even further, but it was the Carpe Diem watching Dead Post Society right after Emory died. It was very fortunate that I saw that and kind of provided me some direction in life. 

Yeah. Just on that Car P DM point, in case I forget to mention it to you, you pro, you probably don't realize this and nobody will realize, 'cause I haven't said this to anyone, but the phrase like, you know, make your life's extraordinary.

You know, you've touched on that a number of times. The whole car PD you know, the quote from Dead Poet Society. I actually adjusted my tagline for this show to put that as the last part of it. So, 'cause the tagline for this show is authentic stories of adventure, exploration, and the natural world to inspire your next adventure.

And I've replaced to inspire your next adventure with me. Your life's extraordinary after going through your story. So, so thank you. 

Yeah. Yeah. You're welcome. That's amazing. It, well, wasn't, it's not my line, you know, 

and I know, but it's just, you brought it back to the forefront and I had seen it all that time ago and I hadn't really thought about it until, you know, hearing you talk about it and seeing you, you know, you're writing about it in the book.

So it's with Thank you. So you kind of played it forward a little bit without, yeah. 

Do you feel like this podcast is helping make your life extraordinary? 

Yeah, I do. I mean, speaking to people like yourselves and yourself and everyone else, I think it's such a wide world. Big wide world, but it's can be so small.

And when you start to build a network of people that are like yourself, you connect with people and have a chat about the types of thing that, you know, people may be going through and how adventure comes into that. It seems to be such a smaller world in some senses, but that's not about, it's not about me today.

It's all, all about you, Tom. So, well, coming back to that point then, in terms of mortality, were you scared of death, your own death? How were you feeling about that one? You know, obviously if you thought about it a lot, 

it was when I was younger and I think when Anne-Marie died, it was more a that it was that immediacy.

It was that I knew what could happen at any moment. And so it was more like a spur, a call to action kind of thing. And I don't know if it was. Necessarily fear, you know, 'cause it's inevitable. And so it's hard, I think, to really, truly fear the inevitable when you have an understanding of it, because it's just gonna happen and there's really no use in fearing it.

And I think one of the great realizations of my life, one of the most valuable realizations of my life is that acceptance is that death is inevitable and that it makes really practically no difference whether you die at 70 or seven. And of course that's not, you know, totally true. When you're leaving people behind, obviously you don't want any parent to lose their child.

And it's always painful to lose a grandparent and you know, to lose anyone. But when life is over, you don't take anything with you. So that. Acceptance allowed me to live with a sort of fearlessness that I didn't have before because you know, this thing is coming, it's absolute when it's over. And so then when I eventually settled on the world walk as this thing I wanted to do, it was pretty easy to overcome.

Any fear I didn't, I it, you know, it was scary initially walking through Mexico and El Salvador and Guatemala and Honduras and all those things. And I knew going into this that, you know, there's a chance that I go out there and I don't make it back. And, you know, who knows? You never know what could happen.

But because I knew that death is gonna come and it doesn't matter when it comes, it gave me a sort of recklessness, which allowed me to embrace life more fully and take risks, maybe that I wouldn't if I was more fearful. 

So, so, so on that then, how did you, so 2, 2, 2 kinda questions to that then. How did you set along the idea for the world Block?

Yeah. And did you have feeling that, did you feel that was going to help you process it? Did. Did you need that length of time you felt to process this or was it an element of processing it but dealing with your own mortality and wanting to live more adventurously? 

Yeah, I, it wasn't really, the war walk wasn't about processing anything.

It was about living. And so after Anne Marie died, really, you know, I was in this first stage of Carpe DM where I'm doing everything and then you realize you've run outta energy, you've run outta time, you can't do everything. So then I had to, this, the thing I talk about in my, like inspirational, motivational speaking that I do is kind of what the, it's all structured around is that you only have a limited amount of time.

And so once I recognize this, then it's like, okay, what do, what are the things that I value? What do I want out of this limited time that I have here? And I, when I really thought about it. What I decided that I wanted most outta life was to travel, was understanding and was to be forced into adventure.

And I knew I wanted to be forced into adventure. 'cause when I was younger I was very timid and introverted, just naturally. And I wanted to grow out of that. And then I was searching for different ways to travel. And my cousin and I were planning on Euro railing and bouncing around from capital to capital.

'cause it seemed like an affordable way to see the world a little bit and be adventurous. And then on these travel blocks that I was spending all my nights ignoring homework on, I discovered Steve Newman and Carl Bushby, these two guys who had walked around the world. And once I saw that, it was like, bam, the light went off.

This fulfills everything that I want out of life. And so it was very fortunate because I don't think, I think it's a rare thing to have such a defined. Point to aim at, and also to have your values at any point in your life. So clearly defined. But again, like Anne Marie forced my hand in this way where I had this experience, which was very timely and tragic, but for me was really valuable.

And so when I discovered the world walk, it was like, oh man, it's affordable. I don't have any money so I can make it happen. And then what better way to understand the world than to walk it and pass through these places that normally just get blown over. And then it would be, you know, inherently traveling, but then the adventure of it too.

Finding a place to sleep each night and learning a new language and navigating new terrain. So it just fulfilled everything that I wanted. 

Wonderful. So you said there, you know, you wanted to break out of being a little bit timid and stuff. How does fear come into that when you're planning that route?

Because you know, naturally you're coming down into the Americas, you know, inherently risky, and you have had some dodgy encounters, which will no doubt come onto. But how much fear and anxiety did you have trying to plan this? Yeah, crazy amount of fear. 

Yeah, ton. I mean, once I, when I actually got into Mexico and I had been abroad briefly before, I was in England, Ireland, and Wales, on like a people to people exchange program.

I went to Canada to ski with my parents once and we went to Dominican to an all-inclusive once, but that was it. And I had never walked through a place. And so when I got into Mexico, and it's not to say that it's more dangerous than even Philadelphia. I mean, America's a pretty dangerous place for a developed country.

And, but it was so different and it was so new. And also I had Savannah with me who was just a puppy at the time, and I have this big cart and I know I stand out. And so when. Those when I was living through those first few months in Central America, before I would leave the hotel, and I wasn't always in a hotel.

Most nights I'm camping, but when I did get a hotel, occasionally it would take 20 minutes of meditation for me to build the strength I would have to meditate just to calm myself down and go, okay, we're gonna go out into the world again today and just experience this onslaught of newness that is gonna take 100% of your brain to process.

I remember passing through these Mexican, Guatemalan, all these cities, and it just being so chaotic in this way that I didn't quite grasp yet that I was using, it felt like I was using 100% of my brain. My brain felt fully maxed out, trying to process everything. And then I would get to the countryside and I'd find a tree with some shade and just lay down and like, oh my God.

All right. I made it through and I can kind of reset here. So in the beginning, yeah, fear was something that I just lived with constantly. But as you go on, you also realize that almost all fear is really just a lack of understanding and a lack of experience. And as I traveled more and I understood the nuances of places more, and I understood that most people really couldn't have cared less, that I was passing through wherever I was passing through, and there's just going about their business.

Once I understood these things, then I was able to relax a lot. And by the end of the walk it was, I was too relaxed because it made me bored. Uh, the adventure kind of had run its course. And I said, all right, you know, I understand that I'm gonna go here and I'm gonna have talk to some people. I'm gonna have some new food.

The dress will be a little different, the language will be a little different, but I'll be safe. And so as time went on, the adventure became a little duller. And in the early days it was full on. 

Yeah. Well, so, so come. So coming into like, eh, south America, central America, south America. So did you speak any Spanish at all?

Did you brush up on that? How did you cope with it? Because you weren't going through tourists routes and you weren't necessarily walking the highways and stuff, so you were in some Right. Backwaters. How did you get on with the language? 

I studied Spanish for a while. When I was walking from New Jersey down to Mexico, I was working on my Spanish and I had this great language program from a friend called Michelle Thomas really recommended.

It was amazing to get the basics and the structure of a language pretty quickly. And I used it for French and Italian as well, which are also similar to Spanish and English. But for the Americas, I was able to, by the end, get really good at Spanish because I was just surrounded by it all the time. And I would study a lot, and when I would stop, I would study constantly.

And when I was in Guatemala, I stayed in Lake Atlan for. Two weeks, and I hired a personal Spanish tutor because it costs like $60 a day for six hours. So I was like, all right, let's do this for two weeks. Let's just do six hours of lessons every day. And then afterwards I do my homework. And that gave me a good base, I would say.

But I also just had a lot of time and just all the conversations I'm having, like you said, they're off the tourist track, so they're all gonna be in Spanish. And when you mess up in a new language, you're just obsess over. You go into a story, you screw it up, and you go, how did you screw that up? You idiot.

And you think about it the rest of the day, and then you never screw it up again. But then the next sentence, you screw that up and then you obsess over that. So yeah, through the Americas, my Spanish got very strong. And then as the rest of the walk went on, I never spent quite enough time one place to really master any other language.

Where, see, 'cause you weren't on a time trial necessarily where you, so, so how did you kinda manage it? Like your time in that Tom, did you feel that, was it just a natural, I want to spend more time in this place, or you were feeling a bit fatigued, maybe isolation. How did that play into, were you planning to stay in c certain locations, like in Guatemala for periods?

It was really based on these larger time scales and these goals that I had. So for the Americas, the primary aim that was driving me forward was I wanted to get down to Uruguay, where I have cousins by the end of the Uruguay or South American summer, so I could catch a boat to Antarctica. And so that was the time pressure there.

So I, when I left, I basically had two years to get down to Uruguay. And so I had that spurring me on. And also in the beginning I was like a maniac. I would walk 24 miles every day because I just had to prove it to myself that I could. And it took me a year and a half to really even consider slowing down.

Then in Europe it was some visa pressure that forced me forward. You only had 90 days in the sheen and then to get into Africa and then come back and, and then had 90 days. And then as the only other really seasoned sensitive section was like north and Central Asia. So up in Mongol and Kazakhstan, which ended up not even being able to get to because of COVID.

They were closed when I was in that region, but they're so far north that I had to walk. I would have to have walked them in summer and if I missed the window I'd have to wait another year. So that was spurned me on trying to time that out as well. And as it went on, I got strangely good. I mean it seems like a really difficult thing to like time out, when are you gonna be in Croatia or whatever it is.

I feel like pretty good at it. 

Yeah. Yeah. I think you some connections and friends and family and stuff in different parts of, to the world. So you mentioned uric. Why did you, if I can remember, was it, did you have friends or family in Croatia as well? Yeah, I had uh, 

I had a bunch of family over there and I stayed with them for like a month.

Yeah. And my parents and sister came and visited and it was fantastic. Yeah, it was incredible. 

Yeah. Rolling back question about Antarctica. 'cause it's a particular passion of mine, even though I haven't been yet. And I am planning to go to then down to, and try and find a way onto a boat without booking a trip.

So any advice, tips? How did your Antarctica trip? 

Oh yeah, no, I mean as vice, as far as finding a boat, I don't know. Just go and hang around, I guess. Yeah. I hope PASPA opens. I'd imagine that would happen, but I mean, it's very expensive obviously, so I think that's the move that you're making. Just go and hang around.

No, I mean, it's totally worthwhile if you can go, it's like an alien planet because it's one of the few places that you go and there's truly no signs of humanity at all. Usually, even when you're. In the woods, you can hear a car distantly or you can hear the highway distantly, or you know you, or you walked in and you even see your own trail, or you see some trash somewhere.

But when you're in Antarctica, it's a boat. And the boat, you know, you, I remember going out on the smaller zodiacs and looking back to the bigger ship. Realizing this is your tether to the world. It's a pretty, and you have these big mountains surrounding you and penguins jumping on the water and whales swimming by.

So it's really the most alien experience that I've had, I would say. 

Yeah. And you've got a photo in your boot, you know, in a kay. You went on a kayak as well, didn't you? Yeah. That was a good 

add-on kind of thing. So yeah, gotta add that on. 

Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah, 

didn't think I'd get down there again, so take advantage of it.

Yeah. Uh, it's, it's brilliant. So kinda rolling back into to the journey, 'cause I keen to understand some of the kinda mental side, uh, things that, the kinda resilience, the fortitude, you know, grinding it out and stuff 'cause it's a long old time to what, were there any points where you kinda felt you wanted to without being reductive, like, you know, just quit or take a longer period of time out?

You know, how did it, how, because you said that you were like a beast going through the 24 miles early on in the journey, but was there any point you just thought, you know, I just need to stop this. 

I did consider it like lightly when I was in Europe, which should have been the easiest walking, but I picked up a bacterial infection towards the end of South America and it was very slow in its worsening.

And then I was walking Ireland and Scotland and I was getting these stomach spasms, which would cause me to crumble to the ground black out 10 outta 10 pain. And then I started losing weight. And so in Scotland, I took a train down to London where I have a cousin spent a month in and out of the Royal London Hospital in infectious disease.

They couldn't figure out what was wrong, losing weight, I'm starting to throw up. And so I flew home. Anyway, I lost 45 pounds total, like at its worst. And I'm a pretty skinny guy. And I was in agony for just months and sleeping just a few hours a night. And so when I picked up in Europe. After I recovered somewhat, my body was back to good health, but my mind was just still dealing with this darkness that I had lived with for so long.

And when you're out walking, you have nowhere to hide from yourself. And you have to be really nice, and you have to be really good company to yourself. And if you're not, it's miserable. And so when I was walking after having recovered and having my optimism sort of perverted into pessimism and all my thoughts just bending towards pessimism, it made it really miserable to be out walking.

And even though I was there in Europe in spring, and I'm walking through these beautiful French forest and these quiet German bike paths and Belgian bike routes, and it was pristine, it was perfect walking. But all I could think about was, man, it'd be really nice to be getting a drink with my buddy in Philadelphia, or be with my grandparents on Sunday dinner.

But then when I really played it out, and I would think about going back, it really just seemed so absurd because I knew this life, the world walk, walking around the world was fulfilling everything I wanted. And so when I imagined going back to Philadelphia and getting a nine to five or, you know, waiting tables, whatever it may be, and getting an apartment and buying this furniture and then finding a girlfriend.

And when I thought about all those things, I was like, I don't really care about having an apartment and furniture and, you know, be nice every once in a while to, you know, have drinks with friends and hang out with them. But then this trade off is working this nine to five and giving up this life of adventure and, you know, sick having a great nap every day in the field somewhere.

And so when I really played it out, it just never, it never seemed like an option no matter how difficult it got. But I will say with like. With resiliency and accomplishing anything, just like going through life. I started the walk the day before I turned 26, and I thought I was pretty mature and resilient.

And then once I was out in the world, even in like Virginia, I realized how actually mentally soft I was and how weak of a spiritual or emotional core that I had. I remember in Virginia I had a tire pop. This was like this kind of recurring thing, this moment like this where I had this tire pop and it was just so incredibly frustrating.

It's like I gotta, I'm, I gotta stop. I gotta fix this and I gotta go outta the way tomorrow to get more tubes. And this is just a huge pain. And at a certain point I realized that I was living my dream. I was pushing a baby carriage with all my things in it. So tires were naturally gonna pop and this is just something I have to accept.

It doesn't do me any good. It's a little cliche, but it really does do me no good to get upset over this. It doesn't solve the problem. There's nothing I can do. I have to sit down. I solve the problem, it's done, and I, I move on. And when I was out there walking, it was this, just times a thousand in every way.

Sometimes I, in the beginning, I'd find terrible campsites and I'd sleep terribly, and then I, the next day would be miserable. I'd be sore or I would walk the wrong road or you know, I'd set up my tent wrong and it would flood and whatever. You know, there's all these just like a million little things, or I have bad food and my stomach would be upset.

And you're just learning in all these different ways and you sort of realize, you try and control what you can control, but, and you do your best in that. But ultimately the resiliency. Comes from, how do you absorb the external world? Are you going to let this thing dictate your emotions or are you able to process it and then come to some resolution within, and then maybe find a solution or maybe just accept that there is no resolution and and then move on with your life.

But it really becomes this, it was this constant growth of how do you absorb this? How do you learn from this? How do you adapt to this? 

Yeah. It's almost like it's not happening to you. It's happening for you, you know, after, because it's your life essentially. You're not just on this little jolly, you're making a kind of grand commitment.

How in tune where you, with the world around you? Were you keeping tabs on, 'cause you were active in social media and documenting your journey? Were you keeping up with friends and family on socials and seeing what was happening or where in the news, how isolated were you or not to that extent? 

I wouldn't say extremely isolated.

I was probably the first world walker to do it with decent internet connection. And there were stretches where I would go without, you know, three, four days. Sometimes in the desert or even in Mexico. There was times I just wouldn't have any internet. And then later on in it, Uzbekistan or Turkey. But for the most part I was connected.

And if I got to a hotel, there'd be wifi. I could FaceTime friends and family and connect in that way. And as far as how connected I was to the greater world, in the beginning it was very much just survival. And then it was an inward for reflection. And then once I learned how to survive and once I really reflected on myself and what made me and I wanted out of life and what I thought I valued out of life, all these things, and I spent a year basically in the desert, or I spent like eight months, six months in the desert.

It gives you a lot of time to think and. Once I'd done those things, then my focus became much more outward facing and I started wondering what is it that decides people's lives and what really matters to make a difference for people? And so then I started reading much more about wherever I was and getting into geopolitics and taking an interest in these places that I would pass through.

And I would know pretty intimately, but I would wanna know on a larger scale. And so yeah, it was the slow sort of expansion of curiosity, I would say, because I didn't, before the walk, I had only the most cursory, I want to travel and I want to see the world. And it wasn't until I was out there for a long time that I took a really rich, deeper interest in how these places come to be.

And obviously your social following was growing throughout that, and people started to take more of an interest in you in these areas. How did you find that? Kinda keeping up with. Because then you started doing podcasts, didn't you? Through your journey and stuff like that. How did you deal with that attention that was starting to come?

To 

come? Yeah, it was honestly, for the longest time I just felt nothing from Instagram. Yeah. And that was the primary outlet. You know, people felt very connected to the story and I understand it more now, but I wasn't really on social media and I don't have a natural like predilection, I guess, to social media.

I generally avoid it, and right now, I don't know the last time I posted and I would love to never look at it again. That'd be fantastic. But it's not the world we live in anyway. I did photography. Photography was this thing that I could do and it would was a very light lift. I was already seeing these places.

I could take a photograph and even if internet wasn't great, I could post and have it out into the world. And I tried actually for a while to like do videos because people would get really invested in videos. People loved the YouTube and going live on Instagram or whatever. Especially the YouTube though.

I found them just such a heavy investment that it wasn't worth it for me to take myself out of these moments constantly and be thinking about, I should film this. I'm interacting with this guy. This is a moment I need to film. And it really ruined. I felt like when I started thinking in that way, it ruined a lot of the purity of the walk and why I was out there.

And also already, I already knew that from knowing what I valued and knowing this fulfilled my values again. When I thought about like doing it, I was like, what more do I want? I'm walking around the world. This life is amazing. What more do I want out of this? And so I just allowed myself to just walk around the world because that's already enough.

That's an incredible thing. And yeah, and so photography became this thing where I really enjoyed it and it would never take me out of the moment so much. It would actually ended up being much more of an entrance into the world and into people's. Hearts and minds where I would see someone interesting and I would start talking to 'em when normally I would probably walk by because I wanted to photograph and then, you know, maybe they invite me for a chai or maybe for, to stay over their place.

So I photography was this good balance of sharing it with the world, but then not taking away from the thing itself. 

Yeah, it's such a, it's such a fine balance that I actually, I went to see a couple of nights ago, a wildlife filmmaker on stage doing a live talk about his work over the years, and he's captured this really beautiful moment between, I think it was polar bears and it was for BBC's frozen planets.

And he talked so forwardly about it, but how. He wishes he was more present in the moment 'cause he was so that focused on capturing this epic shot of this mothering cubs that hadn't really been captured before. But then he looks back and it looks as if it wasn't him that had taken it 'cause he wasn't so in the moment.

And it's, yeah, it's quite a thing that, you know, when you see something beautiful and you want to capture the moment, but you know you should be experiencing it as well. Are you still into photography to you still as a fashion? Yeah. I mean 

I hadn't really photographed anything in a while and I've done these a few vacations with my fiance and I have no interest in photographing anything when I'm out there.

It's like I just wanna exist. 

Yeah. 

And it's also a different sort of, a sale was stopped in like Zadar in Croatia, a little walled city. If I would go out looking for photographs, if I was stopped somewhere and when I was walking, I would also just take photographs, happenstance, oh, here's something beautiful.

You know, I would take a photo of it or I would try and make it work. But going out to take photographs is like, see, looking at the world in a different sort of way, you have to look at it through. With this idea of framing things and layering things and catching the person in the right moment. And so it is this sort of different state of mind that I have to put myself in.

And I haven't really traveled like that, you know, until two years ago. So it's nice to just like enjoy a place in that way and not be thinking about it and experiencing it in a different manner. But I did actually, just like three days ago, some friends a few months back asked me to shoot their engagement photos.

Kinda like they had already been engaged, but they rented a, an art museum, the right to photograph in there. And that was really the first time I did like serious photography in two years, I would say. And the photographs came out way better than I was expecting. Right. I was a little nervous 'cause I also don't do that type of photography initially, but I was like, oh no, I still got, I know how to make a beautiful photograph.

I know how to do this still. 

That's fantastic. Is it, is it a, is it a career and a side hustle in there somewhere? 

It might be. Honestly, I really enjoyed it. I forgot how much I enjoyed it, so who knows? 

Amazing on that. Actually, on that. What is it like being on the other side of the camera? 'cause you've been on Good Morning America and a host of other things.

How does that feel when you get cameras pointed at you? 

Yeah, I mean, it's fine. You know, it's not a thing that I draw any reliable amount of happiness from, you know, 

but 

I think I have spent so much time with myself and I have reflected on my life and my influences in the world, my views on the world, just for so long and in so much detail.

That. I think the conversations come very easily for me and also like I don't have any guile really. I'm not like trying to hawk anything. Yeah. I'm not trying to, you know, pitch something that I don't believe in, and so that helps a lot. I can just relax and be myself. Yeah. Luckily, I was fortunate enough in this life to do a very pure thing.

Yeah. 

And I'm just able to talk about that for what it is. I think before the walk I would've struggled. But now that I've matured and spent a lot of time with myself, it's comes fairly naturally. 

I was gonna say, I think the sincerity and it's a very valid point when you're not trying to be something that you're not and trying to, yeah, like you say, trying to hawk something, you know?

'cause you can see right through that. 'cause I liked your TEDx talk as well. I, I watched that a while back round about the preparation for the podcast and stuff. So yeah, you've got a bit of a kinda public speaking gig on, on the go now as well, haven't you? How's that going? Yeah, 

it's fun. I never expected this again, this is a thing like before the walk would've been unimaginable.

Yeah. And so as the, like, as the walk was ending, Pinterest reached out to me to talk at this annual event and then a photography place. I did the same thing and it paid really well and it forced me to, for both of 'em to like reflect on, okay, what are these things that I want to pass on? And so I did the one for photography, which was really fun.

And then the princess one was larger. What are the things that I learned about the world and myself and just life in general. And so it was really fun to kind of refine my thoughts in that way. And now I've been doing it for two years and the message is much more refined. And it changed a lot from the Pinterest talk that Pinterest talk was a mess.

Really. In hindsight. No, it's, there's, you know, there's these things that. I believe in, and that I think can make people's lives better. And so I get on stage and I share my story, and I share these things that I think will make people happier, more motivated, more productive, and more at peace with themselves.

Like, and in the beginning, I really, I wouldn't say I really struggled, but it's nerve wracking getting up there and getting on stage in front of everyone. 

Yeah. 

What what helps is that. Again, that's sincerity. Like I believe all these things. Yeah. And so I just would think it's like, even if this is impacting one person, that's enough for me because at least I believe it and I don't know what else I would say.

Yeah, I just done a talk on stage in Barcelona in front of 2000 people for the first time, like Wow. Two weeks ago. Yeah. For my day job and yeah, so I, and that, and I've had good feedback on that. Thankfully it went very well. But I think that is, because it comes from a sincerity point of view. I wasn't trying to bullshit people or make stuff up.

It was just about some use case at work and it landed pretty well. But yeah. Nice. My whole being backstage and getting ready to go on stage was, was, that was the worst part of it. Yeah. We stood there for two hours before we got to go on. Pacing up and down for two hours behind, behind the screen was pretty nerveracking.

But yeah, it's kind. Once 

you get going, then you're good. But 

yeah, but it just goes past, I can't remember it at all. It just happened and then, and I've seen all the photos, which is great, but I want to see the video to hear it back 'cause people were coming up and talking to me about it after that. I can't really, I can't remember it.

Which is odd. Yeah. 

Just a rush. 

Yeah. But if you've got more gigs, you don't need to give anything away. But if you've got a, a roster of gigs lined up, then 

yeah. Yeah. I have a, I got a few, I think I have five in the next couple months lined up and they're kind of all over the place. 

Yeah. 

So, yeah, it's really, it's an enjoyable thing and it's, it's also like, gives me a little bit of travel enough to like, at least get me moving and somewhere new, which I, you know, of course enjoy and scratches that itch just enough.

But yeah, again, it's just, yeah, it's just these things that I believe in will improve people's lives. And so it's a message that sad, enjoy sharing.  

When you go to these cities, do you go for a walk? Have you been in it always? Yeah. Yeah, always the morning going for a walk. Yeah. 

Yeah. I was in Bismarck, North Dakota, which is a pretty remote place, and I walked over it.

It was like an hour walk to the event for the tech check, so I just walked before for the, you know, walking. Just, it's such a fantastic. Way to see wherever you are. And so if I go to a place and I don't walk around, I feel like I've seen nothing of the place. If you're just going from the airport into a car, to the hotel, and then a car, to a restaurant, a car, wherever it is, like what have you seen?

You seen a few little nodes. At least by walking you see a little bit more of things and you know, you see some people and you feel the wind on your face and get some sunshine. So yeah, everywhere. Always for sure. Yeah. 

Yeah, exactly. Me and the family are exactly the same. We walk everywhere we go on holidays, it's, and vacation.

It's just a thing that we do all the time. And I got my own little puppy who's about time, we'll talk about Savannah with Switzerlands, but I got a little puppy six months ago. Now that's a even better excuse to get out every morning and go for a, you know, five or six K, eight mile walk. 

Nice. Yeah. Yeah.

That's like the great benefit of a dog is that they, you have to go outside, you gotta go for a walk. 

Yeah. And it's good just having that thinking time, or even listening to a podcast and an audio book. Switching lanes. 'cause yeah, I've been 42 minutes. I can't believe I've been on that long already. But I, I did want to focus a bit about Savannah, the dog that walked the world.

Was Savannah ever part of your story, be before you had adopted, did you feel that you needed a companion on the journey? How did the adoption of savanna come to be? What was your plans like? Yeah. 

Before the walk I had no plans. You know, part of the appeal of doing the walk was this ultimate freedom that I would experience and have bringing a dog into that was a responsibility.

But after four months or so, camping in strange places, having some odd interactions, I kept thinking, most nights I'd be thinking, man, it'd be really nice to have a dog that could listen while I slept. And eventually when I got to Austin, my cousin's there. Her eight cousin there and I was staying with her and her husband.

The first day I thought, you know, I'm just gonna go to this adoption center and kind of just like toy around with this thought that I've been having, not really expecting to get a dog. And I spent two hours maybe hanging out with these different dogs and I was about to leave and I thought, I'm gonna take one last lap.

And as I'm taking this last lap, the volunteers brought out Savannah and her sister, who were just puppies, like four months old at the time. They'd found 'em on the side of the highway. They were taken to a kill shelter. And then this shelter saved them from the kill shelter. And I held Savannah. I asked, you know, hold her.

And she was na, she was all manji and pretty beat up and not in the best shape. And I thought, man, you know, I gotta sit on this for a night. I can't just adopt a puppy right away and I'm about to enter Mexico in a month and you can't just throw this big thing in the mix. So I'm about to leave and this other woman who was there who I think goes to the shelter every day just to hang out with the dogs, she said.

If you leave, they'll be gone. They won't be here the next day. The puppies never last. And so she very grateful for that, but she kind of forced my hand and so I, you know, thought, okay, what are the benefits, pros, cons of getting an older dog versus getting a puppy? And though I knew it would be painful in the beginning, getting her up to speed and training her and her just, you know, getting least trained, even that would be difficult.

But the reward was that she would know no other life, but a life of walking around the world. And so I ended up adopting her. Her sister was being adopted basically the same time, so they were there for like 10 total minutes. Had incredible fortune that she was there, and she turned out to be the perfect walking dog, 45 pounds.

Size and she was a beast man, by like, man, like after I remember in the desert when I'd get her hair cut, this is in the, like after a year when we were in Peru and in Chile, get her hair cut. And so she'd be good for, good for the sun. And I would look at her muscles and she'd just like rippling. Yeah. And even her, like her little forearm before her paw was just, you could see the muscle even there.

Yeah. 

And she used to do this thing where she would, if she wanted my attention, she would bat my calf from behind. And I have like so many, I had got so many bruises and scars from her. Like this muscular paw just batting me and drove my mom crazy. 'cause when we would come home, Savannah would do the same thing to my mom and she'd just be left bleeding or whatever, Bruce.

But yeah, so she was, she grew up on the road and. We became perfectly in sync, you know, together every minute of every day for years and years. And by the time we reached America after six and a half years of walking, and we were doing this last section from Seattle back to New Jersey, I could have had her off leash all day.

And when we were on a bigger road, we could have been on a very big road. And she would walk with her ear just brushing my calf in the same spot for eight hours if that's when I needed of her. And then when we turned off the road, I would say, go ahead. And she then she'd take off a no. Okay, now I can go sent to center, or whatever.

To whatever. She was a working dog, you know, in that way. I remember my fiance's father, we drove across the country, we had to move across the country, and he was driving us in this big rig. He would take Savannah and Arthur doll, Cleo out for a walk, and we came back one day. He's like, Tom, I saw it, I saw when she turned it on, where she goes, when they're going for a walk, they're walking this dirt road.

And Savannah went to right on the edge of the road, which is where we would always walking out, always make sure she walked. And then it's just kind of, she's on focus mode and charge and forward. So yeah, she, she, she lived a great, a great adventurous life. 

Yeah. And sadly she passed the Yeah. Last year. I mean, that's, it's just in, just incredible to think, I mean, she's, because I know what it's like when a young puppy of mine's Bailey's only like six, seven months.

At seven months at the mo at the moment. Tough. I mean, it is, it is tough. And I know what like, 'cause he does that little thing like when we are walking. 'cause I, I've only just started letting him off the leash a lot. And he does that thing where he'll, he will run away, but he'll come back. But he nudges me with the back, with his nose.

And if I'm wearing shorts, it's like a wet nose. He doesn't in the house even walks about and he touches the back of my leg all the time with his nose and he's always at heel. But it's hard like trying to train and he, you he's going through that little bit of probably teenage years, but how was it like, did it take a while to kinda really get the bond going with Savannah?

'cause it must be hard, your own, not struggles, but you know, you, you're the physical and mental task on your own hands. But dealing with a puppy must have been difficult. Yeah. 

I mean so was the benefit of walking with her every day was that the training was sort of inherent in this like really challenging thing that we were doing and her just always being on leash.

I mean, I remember in Mexico she used to have, she would have the urge to chase after squirrels. But I always had her on leash, so she would take off and like, before I even realized that she was getting yanked by the leash. So then that stopped pretty quickly, and then we just were together all the time.

So she just very quickly became synced up with whatever we were doing. And I think it helped also that we camped every night. And so her home was really just wherever I was, where the 10 was, where the car was. Like she associated the cart with home. And when people would come up to the cart, she would growl and her hackles would come up and she's like, you stay away from this spot.

So I think, but also that helped with her not running away either, because it was always, it was me and me in the cart were her home. And I think that helped with the training a lot, just being together all the time. And I can't remember what was the other part of the question that you asked? 

Yeah, it was just way about the, yeah, the, the training side and how hard it, it must have been on Yeah.

With, yeah. 

Oh yeah. And then with, with myself being distracted all the time. Yeah. The first few months I really did not feel a lot towards her. Honestly, because I was so in it myself, and I'm just thinking, I just gotta get her through. And really, she's just this burden that I'm trying to carry through and guide through.

And then I'm navigating these Mexican and Guatemalan cities and pushing over the mountains and down along the coast and it's incredibly hot and I'm dealing with all these things. So I didn't really have time to fully appreciate her that first year. I would say maybe towards the end I did, when I got, once I got into Costa Rica and then Panama relaxed a little bit, but I would say it wasn't really until South America where I was able to relax enough to just look at Savannah and be so appreciative of her.

And I think then really in the desert when I got there and there was just nothing going on. And I'm looking at her all the time and she's, you know, she's hurting some days where it's hot and she would always stay wherever the sun was casting. The shade of the cart. She would walk right in the shade. And so I became really mindful of, you know, keeping her cool and keeping up water on her if I could, if we weren't out in the desert too long.

And I think then I was really able to appreciate just how incredible of a creature she was and be really grateful that, you know, we were sharing this journey together. And then as the years went on, the bond, you know, became, you know, immeasurable and impossible to express how deep and powerful it was.

And yeah, really just, you know, how amazing of an animal of a creature she was. Do you think you could have done it without Savannah? I don't know. I, I'm sure I could have, but it definitely would not have been as rich now it wouldn't have been remotely as rich. Every night. We would, wherever we were camping, that was the best.

We'd find a campsite and she would sit down next to me and you go, oh man, we made it another day. 

Yeah. And 

just to have her there to go through that was, I think, gave me a lot of emotional resiliency and power. 

Yeah, what was she like in terms of like being a guard dog, let's say, you know, instinct, threat, danger and stuff.

How was she in, because you, you've been in some dodgy situations. Yeah, I'd say she wasn't 

very good. She was too nice, but she was like at night, she was great when we were in the tent and if she heard something all the time, I would zip open the tent, she'd charge out, growling and circle and then she'd come back or I'd have to call her back in.

So when it came to nighttime, she was good at that. And that I think was useful in some ways to put me at ease. 'cause I knew she would hear something before I did and she would hear if someone was coming. And at nighttime people are terrified of dogs, basically everywhere around the world. So it would served like its utility to put me at ease.

And she enjoyed it too. She loved camping and being out there and whenever we were in hotel, she's just like by the door. Unless it was, we really need the rest. Then she'd be on the bed and snoozing. But she's like, let's get back outside. 

Yeah. And she got a little bit sickly as well, didn't she? Did she get a tick bite somewhere?

Was that Central America? 

Yeah, in South America, in southern Peru, she picked up Osis and then we were in the deserts of Chile, the Atma, the dry desert in the world. And that infection dropped her platelets to zero so her blood can coagulate. And then she got a nosebleed and we're in the middle of nowhere and eventually able to wave down a car.

And it was this whole, you gotta read the book for that story. Very intense. And the, but it'll keep you turning the pages for sure. It's very stressful. 

Yeah. She's an absolute tripper. An ab, absolute tripper. What kinda food did she eat along the way? Just out of interest? 'cause you're went through some right.

Diverse, uh, places and cuisines and cultures. What's it like for dog food and all these? 

Yeah, I mean, could always find dog food. I remember even in like. Having, being in this really remote Argentinian village and going into a shop and they just have a massive, you know, like 80 pound bag of dog food that you can buy a kilo from, or two kilos, whatever.

I was like, man, they even have dog food here. And so pretty much everywhere except North Africa where it's majority Muslim and they just don't keep dogs. And then when we were there, she was eating like beef patay and sausages and so she loved it that. So it was eating better, eating otherwise. And in like in Kyrgyzstan, actually in Kyrgyzstan.

Where in arson ba, like a mountain village and there's no dog food. And so then she was eating horse meat. This is the only like, yeah, canned food. I could find a canned of meat. So she was also loving that. 

Yeah, I can imagine she'd like that sounds very tasty for a canine. 

Yeah, 

actually. 'cause we did touch on some of those locations in terms of the dodgy situations.

So what was it like in the stands? The Stan. Stan, did you get, what was, how did you enjoy? 

Yeah, they were great. They were great. Fantastic. I know maybe historically Kyrgyzstan would be a little more dangerous 'cause you could go up in the mountains and be totally removed from everyone, from internet, from anything and, but now there's more of a tourist industry around it, which there wasn't before.

So I think it's much safer. I mean, I never felt in first second that I was in trouble. And then Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, all the same. I'd say very friendly. Uzbekistan, I was there. Basically, I guess like four years after their previous dictator had died and they started opening up a little bit. And prior to that you used to have a, to register in a hotel every night.

And so you could only go to really like three or four cities as a tourist, and you had to be back in them at night. And when I was there, it became a little gray. And so I was able to leave, do the walk without registering in a hotel every night. So there's a lot of times I was passing through these villages or towns, and I was the first foreigner they had ever met, like all the time, happened every day pretty much.

And so that was a wild experience and they were always just so effusive and kind. And they would try and find someone who spoke English to bring their nephew over, or someone who would watch YouTube or whatever, spoke some English, studied English, so we'd have a conversation. 

There's a few things that I kind of want to touch on, but we're kinda jumping around a little bit and I don't want to actually getting them too much.

'cause you have talked about them before and they are in the book. And again, I'd encourage people to go and read the book, but you quite a dodgy situation in Turkey as well. And I think social media came to your saving grace on that, which we won't touch on. But I think in terms of like sound bites and you know, click bait and all that good stuff, there's some right dodgy situations I think that you've been in Tom and I would encourage people to go and get their book and dive into, you know, what happened in Panama, what, you know, El Salvador and Turkey.

I think there's some fantastic sound bites in there if you go on it'd read, read the book. But, so in terms of like, see when you were getting closer to the end of the journey, did you have any sort of existential dread about this? You know, thinking about you've been on the road for a long time and all of a sudden you're starting to come full circle.

How did that, how did you deal with that? 

I. Definitely had a little fear of what was, how I was gonna make a living, because I was, I had a Patreon that was paying the bills when I was walking, and it's, I was barely making, you know, I wasn't like making money. It was, I didn't ask for much. I didn't need much, and I had a sponsor.

Once the walk was over, I had stopped those things, and so my income was gone right away. So I was definitely concerned about that. But in, in a, a larger, more spiritual existential sense, I was actually really relieved towards the end. And the last six months, six and seven months, walking across the US was this period that.

Was really beautiful. It allowed me the space to look back on everything I had gone through and all these things that I had learned and then see my own country with a fresh perspective. And I also just very rarely post it. I wasn't doing any videos, I wasn't doing any blogs. I would just post it Instagram every once in a while.

'cause I wanted to just experience the walk in as pure form as I could. And it was coming to terms with a death almost where I was saying goodbye to this really important half of my life. Basically. You know, at that point it had been 15 years that I'd been thinking about the world walk and then you know, six and a half doing it.

So it was this almost grieving process that I was going through, but also I was so relieved to be putting it behind me. And when I was really towards the end, when I got into Ohio say, and then Pennsylvania and the end was really insight and I wasn't walking through Kansas in winter and dealing with that nightmare.

I. Was so looking forward to throwing my cart into the trash and never setting up a tent again, and not having to break it down at night. You know, the walking around the world, walking in general is, I think close to like a perfect existence as you could have. It's beautiful. It's reflective. You're getting exercise.

You're experiencing new things. You're seeing things at a human scale. You're out in nature, you're tired. Everything is very rewarding. Every meal you eat is the best meal you've ever had, and it's just an incredibly, remarkably beautiful existence. It comes with the trade off of it being exhausting and you're dealing with new things every day and you're dealing with constant uncertainty and the weather.

And sometimes you're in the snow, sometimes you're in the rain, sometimes it's too hot. Sometimes you're sore. Sometimes you just want to hang out with your friends and do nothing for a while and you don't have those things. And so I had lived that life for seven years and I often say that those seven years felt like 20 because they were so packed with experience.

They really felt like that. When I looked back, I was like, I just lived a whole life right there. And when I was getting towards the end, I was done with it though. And I couldn't wait for coffee in the morning and a hot shower and a bed at night and a roof over my head. By the end, it was time. I would say, 

do you miss it?

No. That you find I miss parts of 

it. I definitely miss the richness. I, I. You know, it's as good as it gets out there and you're seeing new places, you're trying new foods, you're meeting new people in the day-to-day life that we've constructed for ourself. We just don't have that. It's not built in, you know, you can do your best to, you know, walk to work and try and interact with new people, but we just fall into our groove and, you know, we're trying to build these larger things.

I remember early in my walk being very frustrated almost that I couldn't have any other hobby really, but photography because I didn't have a desk and I, you know, didn't have battery packs to recharge my things or reliable internet. Uh, but it forced me to become a good photographer. You know, there's limitations, but now it's like I was able to write the book because I had a desk and I could sit down every day and go to the library and work on this thing.

So there's just trade offs for everything, and it depends on what you're trying to do. 

How is your outlook and your philosophies and things. Changed or not since your, you know, car being a catalyst to an extent, what's your view on that and, and what's your view on the world? How have you grown as a person?

Yeah. I mean, grown unrecognizably from who I was before, totally different per person, infinitely more mature and have an infinite amount of more understanding about the world and my place in the world. And I would say one of the big things that I took away from the walk, spending so much time with myself meeting all these other people, is that we're just really tiny.

And I think we have this expectation that we should be more, and that we should have more control over our life. And that if we just get a little bit ahead, then things will really settle in and we'll be there. We'll be living finally. And what you realize when you travel so much is that. Life is really decided by these much bigger forces.

They're, I met wonderful people all around the world, but they're in a little village, little conservative village in Algeria, or they're in the deserts of Peru with no running water, wherever they are. People who work harder than I do, who are more intelligent than I am, who are definitely more generous than I am, I always hope so much early on in particular.

And I was like, I would've been, I wouldn't have helped me. I would've been suspicious, 

but they're 

helping me. And yet I'm the one with an American passport, with American dollars passing through their home and experiencing their home. So you realize just this incredible privilege that you had, but also just how much life is decided by these bigger forces.

And also when I started the walk and when you're young in particular, I think you have this real desire to prove yourself and to become something. And I probably like four and a half years into my walk. I knew I was gonna finish the walk. I was living my dream and I always thought that I would become something more than I was.

I thought if I was living this life that I dreamed of, that I would maybe even ascend my humanity, that I would become this other, being beyond human. And then you're out there long enough living your dream and you realize, oh no, this is, it's just you. And that's all there ever is. And really, you don't need to try it all.

Like you don't need to do anything. And that's enough. You are existing right now. That is a beautiful, incredible thing. That's all you need to do. And even though you can't see it right now. The people who love you are going to forget you. They're gonna die. They're gonna forget you. Then they'll be forgotten and the people who remembered will be forgotten and it'll all be wiped clean.

And then someone will be passing through your town and go, Hey, this is a nice little town. Not thinking that all these lives have already passed through there and lived in this place and had full, rich, meaningful lives. And that's happening all over the world. And it's okay just to have that one rich, beautiful life.

That is all you need to do. You don't need to become anything else. You don't need to become anything more. Just try and be nice. Pay attention and just do your best and relax. 

Yeah. Fantastic. Is a view that you've. Since reflected on it and come to realize, or did you realize that on the walk? Because that's quite profound in terms of 

Yeah, totally on the walk.

Yeah. I mean, before definitely. I mean, I was, you know, young and ambitious and excited and hopeful, but I didn't really have a real sense of the world. And I think it's only that view has only become more ingrained into me. And I think also as like a, I think as a symptom of western capitalistic society, that we have this really intense pressure on a societal pressure, capitalistic pressure.

To always be striving to, to become something else, to be better than you already are. And that's important. And it's important to be motivated and to want to improve yourself, but you can almost, you can separate the action from the emotions that you're feeling. This is something that I learned from Savannah and watching her every day where I'd have this thought, and I'm thinking, she has stomach aches, she has muscle pains, but I don't know how she's feeling.

And yet every day she walks 24 miles and her tail's up and she's feeling good. And I realize, oh, you can just do the thing and not be racked with anxiety and worrying. I'm not a good enough. I'm not gonna get there. So it's much easier to say this than to do it. And. It's difficult to separate all these little emotions and know what your motivation is and to be patient in your growth and to accept that you can only do so much every day and a lot of the days you're not gonna do, I would say every day you are not going to live a perfect day and to be okay with not being ultimately productive or not being perfectly kind, but also that allows you to extend grace to other people and it allows you to, you know, when you extend that grace to yourself, you give people a lot more grace too.

That's incredible here. Do you feel fulfilled now then, Tom? Do you feel happy? Do you feel a kinda a good place with all that, that you don't need to go on these grand adventures, escapism to whatever it may be, that if, what is your view on adventure now and experiences? 

Yeah, I mean, it's, you definitely, I definitely want to live a life that is still filled with love and interest and beauty and travel fulfills a lot of those things.

You know, travel is a great way to get yourself into an uncomfortable situation and feel that sense of growth that you get from it, and to remind yourself that you still know nothing of the world. And so there's definitely, my relationship has changed a little bit. I also, I think ask, I will never travel, I don't think in, in the way that I did then when I was walking.

And so I've sort of accepted this cheaper form of travel that isn't as rich and that is a little more touristy. That is sort of unavoidable from just flying in somewhere and not being able to spend three months in a place or two years in a place. But I would say for myself, I'm very fulfilled. I mean, honestly, I like think not infrequently like.

I could die and I wouldn't care. Yeah. Because I, I lived my dream and I mean, I had this incredibly motivating aim and accomplished it. And so that's also, all right, so like I was thinking about this the other day. I was thinking about this the other day where maybe it is unfair to say just exist and that's enough.

I pay attention. That's enough though. I do believe that it's easy to say on the other side of being fulfilled, having fulfilled your dream, but when you're pursuing it, you know, it's a different story. But yeah, I mean I've, I'm very at peace with things. I would say more peace than I've ever been, I would say.

Well, that's wonderful to hear. And I think just kinda rolling back a little bit, what you touched on at travel there, you know, there's slow travel, there's the immersion, you know, in what you've done and what others have done to an extent. And, you know, whether it's a bit of travel, tourist type travel.

It's still the people, there's still people in these places. There's still that connection to be had. There's still a story to un unpick and you know, that the human connection, which I think has been a thread through all of that, and obviously the, the canine, the animal connection as well. So it's a wonderful story and there's not many people that I've spoken to that have actually kinda translated that type of energy that they have been fulfilled and their eyes light up when you ask that type of question.

So it is really, it's very good to, very good to hear. And it's, I mean, what age are you now, Tom, if you don't mind me asking? Very fast. Yeah. It's, yeah. Wow. I still get your whole life ahead of you, as do I, hopefully. Amazing. I can't believe how long we've been on and it's, I kind thoroughly enjoying this and I want to be respectful of, of your times, I think.

We'll, yeah. And firstly, is there anything, actually before I move to closing traditions, is there anything that we haven't touched on that you would like to bring to life about the walk. Savannah where you are in life at a minute, you know your partner Bonnie, for example, maybe. Is there anything you want to raise or talk about?

No, I mean we covered a good amount of ground. I would say we are expanding all sorts of topics. Yeah. 

Excellent. Fantastic. Right, so, so let's move on into the closing traditions then. So there are three in this season. So the pay forward suggestion for a good cause, charity project, whatever that may be, and then a call to adventure and then we're going to close out with a quick fire 10 q and a questions for a little bit of fun.

Starting with the pay forward suggestion, what would you say is a pay forward for listeners? Our viewers, Tom? 

Yeah, this is sort of an abstract one. It's not like something charity right away that first came to mind. The first thing that came to mind was the country of Georgia. And I just want to bring some awareness to this incredible country that is being slowly corrupted by Russian influence and this party origin dream, which is run essentially by an oligarch who has the equivalent wealth of one third of the GDP of Georgia.

And Georgia was, for me, one of these places where I first really, truly gained an appreciation for democracy and the power of democracy. And so it's an ex-Soviet country that had lived through communism. And one of my hosts there who I stayed with for a while was the economic advisor to the president.

He studied economics at Berkeley. So he is a brilliant guy, and he was full in this way, capitalistic because he had lived through communist Georgia. Georgia is small enough. He was only 3 million people there. It doesn't have any natural wealth, so you don't get this great disparity in wealth that it has this incredible electricity in the air.

And because everyone is hustling and they care about their democracy and they're protesting on, probably right now, there's people on in the main square protesting against some of these laws that are trying to get rammed through. And you get amazing art. You get amazing restaurants. You get amazing music, all because.

People have been given the opportunity to do whatever they feel is best for their life and what is best suited for their skill. And then also they don't have those natural resources, so everyone kind of has to hustle, but it creates this amazing energy and it was just such a beautiful place and it's so tiny that it doesn't really get talked about.

So I just wanted to talk a little bit about one of my favorite countries in the world and you know, and their fight for democracy. 

Excellent, excellent. The, that's a first. Uh, yeah, and I will go and personally have a little dig into that. It's not a country I've ever had any sort of focus on, so thank you.

Thank you. Next I call to adventure. So an opportunity for you to suggest an activity, a place, or anything adventurous to listeners and viewers. So what would you say is a call to adventure? 

Yeah, this is, I'm gonna go a very cliche one on this one to turn it back from Georgia into something more mainstream.

But I would just say the Camino. The Camino is amazing. And especially for any older listeners, it's so accessible. You can have your pack sent ahead, walk 15 miles, have some good olives, have a Rattler sit in the shade for a little bit. Yeah. And you know, take your time and then meet some people and have a nice dinner every night if you want it.

But I think if you are considering walking and you want that experience of walking, but you don't want the hardship of 24 miles a day. Yeah. And not sleeping in a bed each night, the Camino is, I would say, the most accessible. Beautiful way to get the benefits of walking while also living a pretty nice life of luxury.

Fantastic. You're such a natural storyteller. I've got, I could picture that as you were articulating it, so thank you. The communal. Right. So finally, and to close out, so this is a quick fire round, 10 questions, just answer as you wish, or you can skip if you get stuck. So, question number one, Tom, you're hosting a dinner party and you can have two guests, dead or alive.

Who would they be? 

Steve McCurry would be one for sure. Just an incredible photographer. My favorite photographer by a mile. And then I gotta go Barack Obama, my guy. 

Excellent. 

I would just be so curious to just to pick his brain. I mean, you know, he's got a whole different perspective that I would love to.

To crack open and hear about. 

Yeah. Fantastic. Craziest experience that you've ever had? Probably a few in the book to be here. 

Yeah. I would say craziest experience, probably like withering away from that bacterial infection and being down to, I think it was down to 122 pounds. That was very surreal. 

Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. I'd imagine you, you know, you, you must have been getting quite delirious through that experience as well. 

Yeah. I was just, just trying to get through it essentially. 

Question three, do you have any hidden talents? 

Any hidden talents? Yeah. I talk about in the book a little bit, I am insanely good at fending off stray dogs, like maybe the best in the world had they, there's so many times on the walk that we would get attacked because of Savannah.

These dogs would be territorial and I have so many tricks in the toolbox to, to fend off these dogs. Yeah. Without injuring them. Hopefully. 

Yeah. You are the second guest that I've had actually this week. That's, so, I had interviewed with someone that's psycho around the world. 

Oh yeah, yeah, 

yeah. Chris McCaffrey, and he had severe troubles with dogs as well, and he got a bit of a, he get a bit of an a knack for dealing with him, which I won't spoil just yet.

Question four. Favorite movie? Oh, man, that's tough. I have a few that come to mind. I would say maybe Gatica Love Gatica, Jude Law. Ethan Hawk. Umma Thurman. And it's just a, either that or the Fountain. The Fountain is fantastic too. But yeah, Gatica is, I think this great reflection of where willpower can get you, what is determined, what's not determined.

Yeah. It's just, that's a very philosophical movie. Yeah. 

Wonderful. Favorite book that you haven't read? 

Yeah, yeah. Again, a lot. I love a lot of books. I would say, I'd probably say Gatsby. Great Gatsby. Okay. You know, it's, again, it's a little cliche, but I've read. Probably 10 times. And when I was younger and I was striving to be a better writer, I would read that.

And just like his, every sentence in that book is just so remarkably beautiful. Yeah. That I think it made me a much better writer, just really pouring over that book. 

Yeah. 

Excellent. The last, number six, the last music gig that you went to? 

Well, the last music gig, so right now my fiance Bonnie and I live in northern Kentucky, right over, like right across from Cincinnati, over the Ohio River, and like four blocks from us is this old church called the Southgate House Survival, and they turned it into a music venue.

And so maybe two weeks ago, it was a Wednesday night, Bonnie was working, I, it was a Thursday night Bonnie was working. I walked over there and got a ticket to some blues band that was playing and I don't remember the name, but I just went and hung out there and had a few beers and enjoyed this band that I had never heard of before.

Fantastic. Number seven. If you could snap your fingers and be anywhere doing anything, where would you be? 

I would be in some little bakery somewhere in the countryside of France, having a croissant. I 

got a little trip booked there in a couple of months as well, so it's me excited. Number eight. 

What scares you?

What scares me? I would say like my parents getting sick scares me, or just getting older is scary. Yeah, I'd say that's the primary, I'd say that's the one. Also more absurdly and less like immediate is the deep ocean. Like, like being way underwater. Yeah. Not being fine on the surface. Wherever and I Fine snorkeling.

Yeah. 

All that. But being deep down in the ocean where you're floating around and you're not, the alpha and things are happening around you, you can't see. That really freaks me out. 

Yeah. It is funny. A few people I fall into free diving and stuff and when I see some of those pictures, it does give me, it does give me anxiety, I must admit.

Number nine, if you could relive any moment in your life, what would it be? 

It would be when Savannah and I were at 15,000 feet up in the Al Plano in between Chile and Argentina, and I collapsed from exhaustion and Savannah came and laid beside me and it was just like this perfect moment of how far, reflecting on how far we've come and just.

It was just a, a beautiful moment that we got to share and that I had pushed my body to the point of collapse and I knew where my physical limit was and that was it. So yeah, I would go back to that moment. 

Yeah. 

Beautiful. And finally, what is the best advice you've ever received 

From my mom? She said pay attention.

She would always say that. She'd say, pay attention. Pay attention. And I think it's just, that's carpe diem in a certain way where you're not gonna control everything. Not every day is gonna be hyper motivated, but if you can pay attention, that's the best you can do and, and that'll move you forward and you'll be able to appreciate life hopefully.

Excellent. Thank you. This has been fantastic. I've thoroughly enjoyed this. Tom, I really appreciate your time. I appreciate, you know, sharing all your stories. I appreciate the book and yeah, it's been wonderful. So. And usual style. Where can people wanting to find out more about Tom Tursi? Where can they go?

Yeah, 

you can just go to the world, walk on Instagram. You can relive the whole adventure there. The book is the World Walk. If you're having a, you know, some corporate sales training team, you wanna hire me, you can go to tom sage.com. But yeah, just search the world Walk it pops up. 

Yeah, it does indeed. It does indeed.

This would be excellent. We'll, all that listed, as usual, it'll go out on the socials at newsletter and things like that as well. So, and with that, we'll bring it to a close. Thank you, Tom. 

Thank you so much, Chris. Nice conversation. 

Hi everyone. Chris here with just a wee reminder. If you've been enjoying the stories here on the Adventure Days, could you please take a moment to press that follow or subscribe button on Spotify or Apple Podcasts?

It's such a small thing, but it makes such a huge difference to the show. It helps to show, reach more ears, brings more voices to the table. And really helps keep this adventure going. So if you're up for more wild stories, more adventures, and more thoughtful conversations, then please hit that follow button on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

And thanks for being here and spending time with us today. It is really appreciated. So hit that follow button. And now let's get back to this episode. 

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. For the show notes and further information, please visit adventure diaries.com/podcast. And finally, we hope to have inspired you to take action and plan your next adventure, big or small, because sometimes we all need a little adventure to cleanse that bitter taste of life from the soul.

Until next time, have fun and keep paying it forward.