The Jewish People's Podcast
The Jewish People's Podcast explores the most pressing issues facing the global Jewish community. Hosted by Yaakov Katz in conversation with leading experts, politicians and thought leaders, the podcast delves into topics such as Israel-Diaspora relations, religious and cultural identity, Israeli politics, and contemporary Jewish life. Each episode aims to inform and engage listeners through insightful discussions and in-depth analysis.
The Jewish People's Podcast
What Did Netanyahu Achieve in His Meeting with Trump?
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Was Tuesday’s meeting between President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu truly “positive and productive”? Yaakov is joined by Shmuel Rosner and Gil Troy to break down the meeting, examine whether it gives Netanyahu a political boost ahead of Israel’s October election, and discuss the bigger strategic question: Is Israel being sidelined by the Trump administration as a new Middle East takes shape?
Hi, I'm Jakwov Katz, and welcome to another episode of the Jewish People's Podcast by JPPI. Productive and positive, those are the words that were used to describe the meeting on Tuesday by President Donald Trump with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Isanyo in the Oval Office at the White House. It was a long anticipated meeting with a lot at stake. What's next on Iran? What's next on Gaza? What's going to happen with the pilot withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon? And what's the future of the F-35 sale to Turkey and the nuclear agreement that the United States just recently inked with Saudi Arabia? What became of that meeting? What really happened in that hour, hour and a bit that the two leaders sat down? We don't really know. It was quiet, there was no media in the room, not a lot of leaks that have yet to come out. But we try to break down what the significance of this very important eighth meeting between Netanyahu and Trump was, what came of it, and where is it going and how will it impact Israel's upcoming elections, as well as possibly the midterms in the United States. I'm joined by two of my JVPI colleagues, Shmuel Rosner and Professor Gil Troy. Take a look at where this meeting is taking us and what's next for Israel and the United States. Stay with us. Hi, Gil. Hi, Shmuel. Thank you so much for joining me this morning. So we're talking about the BB Trump meeting. We don't know so much from it. It's been uh described as, I think, productive and positive. Those are the two words that were used by the press secretary of the Trump administration. It was also some comments made by unnamed Israeli officials said it was a great meeting. Even Bibi himself said one of the best conversations he's ever had with Donald Trump. It lasted just a little over an hour. There wasn't anything and what we like to call in Hebrew with the four eyes or a private sit down between the two uh leaders. And unclear exactly practically what is coming out of this meeting, despite some tension that we know that had been there. But but I am curious on both of your takes on how this meeting will play out. Obviously in Israel, great tension, anxiety among some people, what's coming next on Iran? There's a lot of unresolved issues and different fronts for Israel. So, Shmuel, what what happened yesterday?
SPEAKER_02Well, let's start with the positive and the negative. The the positive, there was a meeting, it was definitely not a catastrophe. We didn't see any um a breakup of of the relations, we didn't see any uh you know people complaining or or insulting one another or behaving badly in any sort of way. So in that sense, it was a positive meeting, and it's good that it happened because many serious issues are on the table. On the less positive side, it was relatively short, it was uh it was not a one-on-one meeting in which two leaders can get to all kinds of understandings beyond behind closed doors. Uh, it was not easy to coordinate. Um, and it was again, it was prompt, official, um almost almost something that you that you do just to to say that that you did it. Right. Uh not not a not a meaningful event for both countries.
SPEAKER_01Check off the box.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um now look, what does it mean for the future? I think the future depends than everything on on events on the ground. Uh the situation is quite volatile. Just hours after the meeting, we saw Iran launching missiles uh on Jordan. Uh we we see that the the region is still uh very, you know, the situation is delicate, the countries all around us, and this includes the Jordanians, the Saudis, uh the Emirates, the Iranians themselves, the Houthis, everybody is still on edge. So I think any description of you know a well-planned future for the United States or Israel or Iran at this stage would be premature. We have to wait and see what happens during the negotiations, if there's any type of uh uh you know, if if if the two parties can close the gaps on the the essential issues, the Strait of Hormuz and the and the nuclear issue. And and if yes, then yes. And if not, what is the United States going to do uh when Iran again says no?
SPEAKER_01And it doesn't look like that Iran is capitulating that fast, but let but obviously, you know, I don't I don't think they would.
SPEAKER_02I don't think they have a reason to do it.
SPEAKER_01Right. They don't have the reason. And I'm not even sure, by the way, that additional airstrikes would would do the job to get them there. And apparently I have been reading that there are some officials also within Israel, by the way, who believe that that's the case, definitely in the United States. Gil, I am curious though. I mean, on the one hand, this was Netanyahu's seventh or eighth visit, I think eighth, with uh the president since he returned to office just under two years ago, the most any foreign leader. BB likes to keep mentioning that for the obvious reasons. You know, he keeps getting an audience with the president. And a lot of important developments come out of those meetings, a lot of outcomes. On the other hand, uh, contr in contrast to other meetings, this one, we didn't see those photos. What's that place called? The South Portico entrance, right? Where, you know, that covered canopy. Where just last week, by the way, you saw the president come to the front door to meet uh Joseph Aun, the president of Lebanon. We don't have, we didn't have that this time. We didn't have press in the room. We didn't have joint statements. We didn't have the two of them sitting on those armchairs behind the gold-gilded uh fireplace or in front of the gold-gilded fireplace and and making statements and everybody, you know, kind of shouting their question. W was this a snub? Was this just I'm I'm busy today, BB? I'll stick you in where I can, but don't expect too much. I mean, how do you how do you view this?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I just heard it was excellent and productive. And, you know, the more the adjectives uh grow, the the and and the fewer nouns and images there are, the more you have to worry. Uh so let's triangulate between three headlines. The Wall Street Journal, which tends to be pro-Israel's coverage, says Netanyahu finds diminished welcome from Trump as Iran war drags on. And that drags on, I think, is very important. Then, as uh Shmuel mentioned, uh Iran launched a surprise missile attack on U.S. forces in the Middle East. And then in the Atlantic, there's a big uh article which is making the rounds, which I found quite superficial, but it'll uh get traction. Um, how uh how how Netanyahu uh lost America. And I think that kind of tells the story. So, yes, uh BBK, now you should also point out that there was a kind of um a framework or an excuse for coming because of the Lindsey Graham Memorial Service. And um but I think going back to that that phrase drags on, uh Netanyahu is increasingly toxic to Trump for various reasons. One is one of the few phrases beyond a MAGA Make America Greater again that is connected to Trump is no forever wars. And uh Netanyahu as well as Zelensky, who also showed up uh in for in under certain similar circumstances, are both now considered to be proof of the forever wars, but also of these unsolvable problems. And uh, the word that I kept on reading about uh Trump is mercurial and uh the and impatient. And so that having having Netanyahu there and then having Zelensky there showed that these two really quite intractable problems are not giving Trump the victory that he wants. And the political timetable of the approaching midterms uh is getting more and more nerve-wracking for the president because the um the polls are going down. I think the polls show that a third of Americans support the Iran war. Uh seventy-six percent think that it's been much harder than expected. But of course we know that, and I'm not predicting it, but uh, you know, the second there's uh a collapse in Iran, the second there's a a change in in in Ukraine, the the public opinion could could change. It too is very mercurial.
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm curious on the on the term forever war, I've been thinking about this, because I'm hearing it as well. But um you know, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, of course, I mean, these were long, protracted conflicts, right? I mean, Gil, the the the the war with Iran now in its current iteration, right, since February 28th, and it's not even at a high intensity stage. We're talking about two and a half months, right? Three months high level. Now it's kind of low level. Yes, it's affecting maybe gas prices, which are up. I read the other day on average across the US by about a dollar a gallon. So I'm not minimizing or the the importance of that for the average American, but this is a forever war.
SPEAKER_00We have to talk about short-term and long term. Short-term, uh, the president has not really made the sale. And we saw at the very beginning when the war was looking much more successful and much more popular, that even then this polarizing president was able to hold his base. And the Iran war was basically a referendum on Trump. You like Trump, you like the war. You dislike Trump, you dislike the war. Then, as the war got more complicated, even in the Republican base, uh, we've started hearing more attacks and it sagged. Uh, we were in the States recently, and my son noticed that every time he was in uh a health club you know workout room where the TV was on, the only coverage about Iran was markets and gas prices. And so when it's framed not as a national security threat to the United States of America, when it's framed not about nuclear weapons, when it's framed not about, I mean, I think you know, a lot of Israelis are talking about the fact that there was that sick, sick video that the um Revolutionary Guard uh is circulating uh promising to assassinate Melania Trump and Baron Trump. I have not seen it front and center in the American press. Can you imagine if that kind of video had been circulating about Joe Biden or Kamala Harris during the campaign or Bill Clinton, or let's say even George W. Bush? So that so there's that that's the short-term political problem. Long-term, I worry about America's capacity. And I'm not talking about munitions, I'm talking about psychological strength. I'm talking about a a defense posture. You know, in a world where the neo-isolationists in the Republican Party are on the rise and the Democratic Socialists of America in the Democratic Party are on the rise and sending Democrats into panic, uh the uh uh uh a month-long war becomes a forever war, right? Because we started hearing that phrase almost within the first couple of weeks. Aaron Powell Exactly. When Iran didn't collapse immediately. And so that tells a much deeper tale about where America's at. Aaron Powell what I think what you would call like what we like to call in in Hebrew chosen or resilience. Resilience. Exactly. And and and the other thing, just uh when I teach about Israel, uh I always I I don't call it the Arab Israeli conflict, I call it the Arab Israeli conflicts. Because I like to point out that we have peace with Egypt, peace with Jordan, uh, Abraham Accords, et cetera, et cetera. You to use Mika Goodman's phrase, shrink the conflict or put it in a broader context. Um so yes, I agree that this Iran war has been very, very short so far, and fortunately not many Americans have been killed. Uh, but but still it shows Americans' unwillingness to focus overseas and their need just to focus at home.
SPEAKER_01You know, Shmuel, if I bring it into the political context for a moment, and obviously, you know, on the security front, very difficult to know. Okay, like you said, there were these attacks just last night, hours after the BB Trump meeting against the Iranian militias in Iraq and, you know, actually strikes that Saudi Arabia participated for the first time, which is significant in of itself, although not attacking Iranian sovereign territory. So, you know, a clear distinction there. Um, so what happens next? And will Trump go after Pickaxe Mountain? Will he not go after Pickaxe Mountain? And him, and him and his comments, by the way, to Fox News in the morning, excuse me, just before Bibi arrives at the White House, saying, I don't need Bibi to tell me about Pickaxe Mountain. I mean, like, you know, I know about this. I got the best cameras in the world, et cetera. Um in the political context of it, the this could be potentially the last meeting that Netanyahu has last official sit-down with Trump before the elections that Israelis go to on October 27th. Maybe he'll get another meeting with him on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly towards the end of September, but you know, you never know with those things. We don't have a big kind of announcement. We didn't have Trump say, give that guy a pardon, like he did last time. We didn't have Trump say, you know, uh, this is the best wartime prime minister, like he said in the past. We didn't say, I want him to win the election. I don't know. I mean, like not nothing big came out. Now BB's coming back to Israel now. Is is Trump not a card to play anymore for Netanyahu in this election?
SPEAKER_02Well, Netanyahu is going to say that he had the best meeting ever. Well, he said he had the best meeting ever with President Trump. Uh what Netanyahu can can can say, and and this, you know, to to Trump's and his credit, Trump did say this week again that he's committed to the goal that that's important to Israel. Uh, it is not all focused on Hormuz. Trump keeps saying that preventing Iran from uh getting nuclear weapons is an American objective, and that's crucial for Israel. It's crucial for Israel not to see America pulling away from that goal in lieu of wanting to achieve the other goal, which is the opening of the Strait of Hormuz. So so if you want to call this an achievement, that's an achievement that Netanyahu can there is something to show off. Uh but but um look, Trump said he has the best intelligence in the world and the best cameras. I I'm sure that his cameras not only see the uh uh uh pickaxe uh mountain, they also see the poles in Israel. And he gets the intelligence that um Netanyahu might be a losing card. And Trump doesn't want to bet on the losing horse. He doesn't want to bet on a losing horse. So he's he's careful. Uh if he if he realizes that whatever he might do, um Netanyahu doesn't win the next election, he might want to stay away from Israel's next election. If he thinks that uh his intervention can help this or that candidate, he w he might want to get something in return for his intervention or or public uh, you know, expressing publicly what he wants to happen in Israel. I I'm not sure really what what Trump wants. Does he want Netanyahu to win the election in Israel? That he wants does he want a change of guard in Israel because that will give him some new material to work with? It's not clear what Trump wants.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's sorry, but it's a it's also a question that I think that's that's an interesting point because we don't know what Trump exactly wants. And if he does want movement on Gaza, and he wants movement on Syria, and he wants progress in Lebanon, and he wants something maybe even to change in the West Bank, right? Uh where violence is now unfortunately at a at a at a real increasing uh rate. I mean, this this government is not that government for him to do business with.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that I can say with more confidence. I don't think Trump wants to see a re-emergence of the current coalition. He wants something more moderate, more manageable, more maneuverable, uh, something he can work with if he wants to, again, go after Saudi Arabia and the Ibrahim Accords, or improving his chances in doing something, for doing something in Gaza, or calming the situation in Judea and Samaria. I don't think he wants the the same coalition to re-emerge. And maybe some of his advisors tell him that um under Netanyahu, the only coalition that's really viable is the current coalition. And that's why he he would like to stay away from Israel's election and let the chips fall where they may fall. Uh I didn't see him yesterday attempting to assist Netanyahu in his election bid. It was not that kind of meeting.
SPEAKER_01And you know, I mean, interesting what you're saying, because also it was J.D. Vance himself, the vice president, the man who might take up the mantle of the Republican Party in just a few months, right after the midterms, and start to run as the potential at the leading contender to be the presidential candidate in 2028. He said in that, in that again, that podcast with Joe Rogan, which obviously has made the rounds, he mentions Ben Gveir and Smuttridge by name, right? I mean, as kind of like the the the guys who are stopping, and he even says there, if I recall correctly, like, what's your alternative? What's your plan, right? You guys are just the no, you know, everything is bad, but you're not presenting anything as an alternative.
SPEAKER_02So clearly ends up winning the election, which doesn't seem to be the case according to current polls. But if this happens three months down the road, the American pressure on him to try and establish a different, completely different coalition is going to be immense.
SPEAKER_01Gil, historically speaking, on this point, um, American presidents have interfered in Israeli elections in the past. Some will say I know news, newsflash. Oh my goodness. Some will say that Israeli leaders have also interfered in American uh elections. There's the famous uh the the story that the Democrats always talk about of Bibi hosting Mitt Romney for some you know rooftop dinner reception in Jerusalem. Um, and obviously the 2015 speech in Congress, although that was after uh Obama had obviously been elected several years after. But um when it comes to the Israeli elections, what have we seen in the past? Uh you know, there's Clinton, there's Obama, of course. Um, and what have what what what should we expect potentially?
SPEAKER_00So what we've seen in the past has been on on two levels. One is there is the kind of um symbols and telegraphing that comes from the various leaders, the imagery, the the the the the the tone setting, um, the diplomatic goodies. You know, we should also point out that um Trump uh you know that I'm I'm sure one of Bibi's fantasies going into the meeting with Trump was uh coming out with a statement about the F-35s going to Turkey, or as Shmuel mentioned, the Abraham Accords. There were many things that, you know, there they he didn't come he didn't come home with anything really to deliver except for this uh the this pocket full of uh adjectives. Um so there's that level. But we know uh that there also have been political consultants who have who have gone back and forth uh to um Israel over the years. During the Clinton years, there was uh there there were rumors and uh of of money uh going of organizations that were pushing um the the the uh the alternatives to to BB Barack and others. So there has been, and then who knows what's going on with the CIA and um and and and really but beneath b uh you know behind the scenes. So there is there is the that that that kind of track record. Um I don't think that's Trump's MO. Uh Trump doesn't have the patience, Trump doesn't have the focus. Uh Trump, and by the way, let's also look at the electoral calendar. The Israeli calendar is October 27th, the midterm elections are just what eight, nine days later. And um and it's funny we should talk about the the uh American midterms for a second, because on one hand you'd say he's on his way to becoming a lame duck, what does he care? He's had quite a number of wins, let's say most recently in Arizona, where you still see that Trumpian candidates uh are are winning it and and dominating the Republican Party. But the big X factor is that if he loses the House, uh let alone the Senate, but if he loses the House, he is gonna have the next two years filled with investigations and impeachment uh initiatives. And I I think he just doesn't he doesn't want that. So um uh you know, beyond the ego blow and and all that. So the these next hundred days or so are gonna be very, very fraught for Netanyahu and for Trump. Uh but I don't but I I agree with Schmuel that he's basically gonna take a bit more of a step back, especially because BB and Israel, it breaks my heart to say, are increasingly toxic in American politics in the left and the right. So what's the upside? And Trump is indeed transactional, is always saying, you know, where's the upside? So I think he's more likely to to wait it out.
SPEAKER_01Is there I mean, you know, the midterms, there's there's there's two, and you you pointed out this before your son at the at the gym watching the uh the markets only conversation about Iran. I think that maybe because they just don't have Channel 14, right? The pro BB channel in in uh in the US. Uh but anyhow, um jokes aside. It's coming.
SPEAKER_02It's coming.
SPEAKER_01It's coming. The the the mid the a lot of analysts, let me say it like this, have have been saying all along that the main drivers for Trump in the Iran War have been two, right? It's the midterm elections that's coming. It was I'm sorry, three. It was the World Cup that's over, right? So you wanted it over before the World Cup, World Cup's over. He can renew strikes. We kind of have seen that play out. The midterm elections are coming. It's got to be done way before the midterms because it's going to hurt him. The forever war, it's so close. He's got to try to retain a majority in the House, which is not going to be simple. I've seen polls that show that it's not really going his way right now. Senate, yes, House, no. And the third is obviously the price of gas, right? Is it possible that we're all misreading Trump? I mean, is it possible that he's not really being driven by those, that there's maybe some other agenda here?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Look, you know, anybody who thinks they know what Trump is going to do tomorrow is forgetting. You know, let's let's look at the famous moment where he was um meeting with Netanyahu and he decided that Gaza should become the Riviera. Right. Now, for years, people had been saying, you know, had the had Hamas decided to build Gaza in a proper way back in 2007 when they took over in their violent coup, then it could have been the Middle East Riviera. Where did that come from? You know, everybody still has theories. Did he hear it on some kind of Fox News thing on the way into the press conference? Nobody knows. He's not the most systematic of presidents. On the other hand, he does have a lot of pride in his negotiating skills. And he also has a certain kind of sense of not being bullied. I want to go back to what I said about uh Melania and Barron and the threats to assassinate him. I mean, he takes the Iranian threat incredibly seriously, both on a national existential level, in a way that Barack Obama, I'm sorry to say, didn't, in a way that Joe Biden didn't, in a way that many Democrats haven't. Uh, but at the same time, it's also incredibly personal because you know there have been Iranian hit squads against him, there have been Iranian hit squads against his his um uh uh associates, and now Iranian hit squads, at least uh on video, threatening his family. Right. So I think we have to put that personal dimension in. It I would be, you know, you can you can never be surprised about what Donald Trump is going to do, but I would be incredibly surprised if tomorrow he now suddenly announced um the war is over. Uh and he's walking away.
SPEAKER_01He's walking away because walking away without a resolution.
SPEAKER_00Trevor Burrus, Jr. Right. And the other thing I keep on saying, and I said this the day the MOU was signed, the memorandum of understanding it would be saying, oh my goodness, rupture, he's giving up on Israel, he's giving up on the war. I said, trust the Iranians. The Iranians are gonna be aggressive with the Strait of Hormuz, and they were. The Iranians are gonna be aggressive vis-a-vis uh Trump, and they were. And yes, we really have to emphasize again what Chumal mentioned at the beginning, which is this attack on U.S. bases. And it was the first time that the that Iran didn't react, but actually proactively uh attacked, and they know the timing, they know where uh BB was at the moment. Uh, we also should point out that um it wasn't just that BB snuck into uh the White House, but apparently his his plane took off in in great secrecy. Secrecy from an Air Force base, uh, which shows that there's a threat level there, uh right. And a similar thing happened with uh Donald Trump and his favorite new toy uh when he was leaving uh Turkey, he had to switch um uh Air Force Air Force ones. Right. Hi, do you switch Air Force Ones? That's why I hesitated for a second, but yeah. Um take the it's like the the old joke about the uh UJA plaque on the trees, um and uh and and and and fly home. So the these these things get very, very personal. The stakes get very, very high. And again, without predicting anything, I just think we have to put that on the table.
SPEAKER_01Shmuel, I mean, something that struck me in the meeting yesterday, uh, and uh you know, this is n more on the margins, but maybe it also is fundamental and substantive, are the people who are sitting on the Israeli side, right? And if you look at that photo, there used to be photos, right, of meetings that the prime minister had with the president, where you had people like Ron Dermer, who, whether you like him or not, a man of great experience, great connections, great strategic thinking analysis. Um, you had Sachyan Eggby, the former national security advisor, veteran politician, veteran minister, veteran cabinet, you know, security cabinet member. Uh you had people who came with real gravitas who sat at those meetings, polit diplomatic at foreign policy advisors to the prime minister. I'm looking at that couch. And there's this new guy, Shmuel Ben Ezra, who was a brigadier general in uh technological research and development or something in the IDF. Um the Yachil Leiter, who's apparently very well respected, has to be said, but just about two years now in Washington, not does not come with that same kind of level of experience, but apparently doing a very good job. But you look at some of the other people, I mean, a lot of unknowns, uh novices, like nobody who really comes with now. Obviously, I I I mean, I've heard even BB say this myself in my with my own ears. Uh, I don't need advisors, right? Um, so definitely I think he minimizes obviously the importance of advisors. But then you look at the American side, right? And you got Trump, and you got JD Vance, and you got Marco Rubio, and you got Bessent the the Secretary of Treasury, and you got, I don't know, was the CIA director was somewhere in that room, and Hegseth was somewhere in that room, and uh Whitkoff, you know, maybe not the most experienced, he was in that room. I mean, that's quite the group right there. I mean, what what is it with the Israeli side?
SPEAKER_02We we have uh Michael and the Jordaniers. It's uh yeah, it's a one-man show. It's um Isra Israel today is run by one person. Um the defense minister is uh is more of a plant than um than a real person sitting at the defense um ministry. Uh the foreign office never had much influence in Israel, especially not today under Netanyahu. He doesn't have many uh esteemed colleagues with which he can work. He doesn't trust anyone because of political reasons. The Likud party was diminished, uh became um almost a rag. It's it is a party of people who just obey his orders and no more than that. Uh that's that's a problem, unless you think uh Prime Minister like Netanyahu doesn't need any colleagues or advisors or counterparts or heavyweights, you know, battling with him to get a better policies. Uh after so many years at the helm, and with his ability to diminish every colleague that uh uh tended to work with him, uh that that's the way it is for him. He's he's all alone at the top. He is, we should say, he is very experienced, he does have more um you know mileage than everybody else combined, and yet if you want to see an American, an Israeli um um you know, an Israeli establishment in which you find more than one person who could really have an opinion and contribute to a discussion, that's not what we see, that's not what we see today. Again, this might be fixed after the election if Netanyahu wins again, or of course, if he's replaced, then there will be a whole different uh uh kind of uh of of Israeli top top level top level uh uh officialdom. But even if Netanyahu wins, I think he'd want to find new people to work with him. Right now, not many people will jump on a wagon that is driving towards, might be driving towards the end. Uh so there's no way for him to find good, uh uh experienced, uh smart people to surround him, at least until after election day.
SPEAKER_00And I mean, you know, it has to be sorry, could you just give the guy props for a second? You know, as your description reminded me of when Shimon Perez was president and they said that he exhausted the security guards, uh, and Shimon Perez was deep into his 80s. Bibi Netanyahu, like Donald Trump, is pushing 80. And the fact that he can cross the world, um, do this cross-country flight, land, meet with the president of the United States with in this high-stakes meetings, go to this um uh memorial service with Lindsey Gra uh for Lindsey Graham, a good friend of Israel's, and turn around. I just gotta say, you know, on a personal level, the guy's got a you know, he's he's he's also run run through the wheel. You know what I think it is, and he's got this amazing engine.
SPEAKER_01But you know, you do you guys remember one, I think it was the the the first of the or the second of the five elections that we went through starting in 2019 until 2021 or 2022. And um there was one of the one of the TV shows, Ouvda, uh, went around with Benny Gantz, who was the leading contender. And and this video only came out after the election. And the cameraman was in the van with Gantz on the day of the election. And it was like five, six o'clock in the afternoon or in the evening, and the polls close at 10. And Gans is exhausted. He's like dead. He's he's he's collapsing in the van and he's he's they're driving home so he can rest before the 10 o'clock exit polls and see what happens. Now, I remember I watched that and I go back and I remember that Bibi at six, seven o'clock at night on election day is at Bat Yam Beach, right, on the coast with a megaphone, yelling at people to go vote. The guy wants it more than anyone else. And that drive is just always there and always pushing him. And that contrast between him and everyone else is just so, it's it's just so real and so stark. I mean, and you know, maybe that's now changing. I don't know. But um, but I I I'm not sure that it is, and I think he really fights in a way that no nobody else can, right? Um, you kind of see that in the there was a big New Yorker piece by David Remnick, which also, you know, another one, another one of the pieces like Franklin Foyer's that's making the rounds, where Remnick uh spends a lot of time in the Gotti Eisencott campaign and meets with Renee Manellas, a guy who, you know, I've known for a long time. I'm sure you know Schmuel, maybe you know Gil, who was the IDF spokesman, um, and longtime assistant to Gotti Eisencott in all of his different roles. And he he says there, listen, we're playing now by Bibi's game rules. We brought in an Arthur Finkelstein prodigy to be our uh our campaign advisor. We're playing dirty with some of our ads against Bibi. We're not gonna, we're not, we're not just here to get votes from the Ha'aretz readers. We want, if we want to win, we gotta play a little differently. And that's not something that comes naturally for that side. So I I totally agree about uh BB's drive, but um but it is interesting how with all that said, I mean, you know, like like Schmuel said, and Schmuel continues to do the polls on channel 13. We got three months till the elections. Uh we'll have to wait to see.
SPEAKER_02That's an exhausting. I wish I had Bibi's relentlessness, because that's an exhausting job.
SPEAKER_01How do you do three more months every week a poll, Schmuel?
SPEAKER_02Well, I I I I usually do more than one a week uh every week, and it's uh it's exhausting. And Israel is a very difficult country to poll because of our because of our constantly shifting ground. We don't have it's not we don't have the luxury of just having two parties, two stable parties that you have to poll, the Republicans versus the Democrats. No, we have 20 parties and they change every day, they merge, they split, they change names. It's guys, it's with that guy, what would happen? Right. I I am look that it's going to begin being more serious in early September when people get back from their vacation and when all parties must submit their final lists. Then we will get a clear map, clear final map of the election, and only then will us pollsters be able to fine-tune our predictions for what's going to happen. Right now we are looking at the constantly shifting ground.
SPEAKER_00But apparently there are uh there are there are there are posters in Cyprus pushing Guy Day Eisenkide, and there was some pushback from the parliamentarian in Cyprus uh and some Israelis saying, I just want to go on vacation. And you can't you can't run away from it.
SPEAKER_01Right. You can run deep. Schmuel and I were talking before before we started recording. I was, I said, I mentioned how I don't watch a lot of television, but I was in, or barely any, and I was I was in an office this week meeting with somebody at two o'clock in the afternoon, and he had the TV on and it was two o'clock, and I look at the TV channel 12, the main you know TV station, and it was news. And I said to him, What news now at two o'clock? He's like, Where have you been? We now have news from two until 9 p.m. straight. Just constant panels and conversations and the same garbage. And it's like, I remember not that long ago when it would start at five, suddenly they they got another three hours on the calendar.
SPEAKER_02I think with all due respect to all uh you know political strategies and consultants, if Israelis choose to change course in late October, it'll be because of that. Because of because we are all tired of this constant cycle of news that you know it's it started it started with with this government. It starts this government came into power four years ago, and we had a moment of quiet ever since.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to thank you both for joining me. I mean, Shmuel, we're gonna have plenty of opportunity to talk about the elections over the next uh few months and get get get deeper into your polls, but for now we'll stick with uh the Trump BB very productive and very positive meeting. Beyond that, we do not know. Thank you very much, Shmuel. Thank you very much, Gillen, to all our listeners and viewers. Thank you for joining us as always. You can find us where podcasts can be found. Have a great weekend, and we'll see you next week on the Jewish Peoples Podcast by JPPI.