A Likud Rebel

Likud MK Dan Illouz has broken ranks with his party and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over the coalition’s concessions to the ultra-Orthodox. He explains why he defied the party, why he won’t run with Likud again, and why he believes Netanyahu should have resigned after October 7.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, I'm Yakuv Katz, and welcome to another episode of the Jewish People's Podcast by JPPI. Le Kud Kansas member Danny Lowe's has broken ranks with his party and Prime Minister Benjamin Etanyo over the coalition's concessions to the Ultra Orthodox. He's voted against bills that have been brought to the plenum. He has stood up for the principle of equality. And then until the Kharedim, the Ultra Orthodox, share equally the burden of this nation in the military and in the economy, he will not capitulate and vote for these very controversial bills that have been brought to the Knesset over the last few years. He explains today why he defied his party, why he won't be running with the Likud again, and why he believes Netanyahu should have resigned and stepped down after the massacre on October 7th. We the public have become so used to believing that there's so few people of principle in the Knesset today that when one finally stands up, that person deserves to be heard, deserves to be recognized. And I've wanted to do this interview for a long time with Knesset member Don Eloz. Stay with us. So uh Dan, I want to talk. I mean, there's a lot to unpack, I think, and there's a lot to begin with. And I'm really curious also, I think, for our listeners and viewers who might not necessarily know you, you made Aliyah, you come from Montreal, you decided to make your life here, you ran for the Knesset, you got into the Likud party on the Olet ticket, like the new immigrant. That's a lot that once upon a time used to be reserved for a new immigrant. Uh but I do want to jump maybe to the end, and then from there we'll go forward. Um, you have decided that you are ending your membership or you're not running anymore, if I call it more accurately, with the Likud Party because of their position on the ultra-orthodox draft. I'd love for you to explain to us. And I have to say, by the way, before I uh let give you the chance, uh, I think what you've done is incredible uh personally. You know, um I have known you for a long time, but I think that what you've done in taking this really principled stand, which comes at a political price, is not something we see often in Israel. So I definitely commend you for that. But I'd love for you to explain to our listeners and to me what led you to this decision.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

So the the the first thing that uh I came to a conclusion uh too is that uh uh after October 7th, the needs of the state of Israel changed dramatically, and that includes the security needs uh of Israel, the number of soldiers that we need. Uh and so if before uh October 7th uh the issue of Haredi draft uh of the draft and enlistment of the ultra-orthodox in the army was something which was important when it comes to uh principles of equality or uh those broad and important principles, not to like uh uh diminish their importance, but their principles at the end of the day, values. Uh after October 7th, it became a very clear security need. I'm not the only one saying that. Uh the chief of staff of the IDF says it over and over again. He cries for help. Uh and if uh there's a lot of people that say that the IDF didn't cry for help before October 7th, and that's why uh the government didn't uh take action or things like that, now it's crying for help. It's saying the IDF will not survive with the current uh amount uh of soldiers. They would just basically crumble down, and we won't be able to defend our borders, we won't be able to uh do uh the things that need to be done for Israel's security. Uh this happened after October 7th, and that came hand in hand, and um obviously it's cause and effect. It comes together with basically everyone at my age, I'm 40 years old, uh, serving uh uh hundreds of days in reserve duty. My whole uh uh surroundings uh are serving hundreds of days. So uh we spoke beforehand before the podcast started about my family. I have a two-year-old, he was born after October 7th, uh, and I like playing with him at night uh and uh having fun with him and things like that. And I think of the reserve soldiers that for hundreds of days every single year uh can be with their children. Some of them are born also after October 7, and they don't really know who their father is. They know, but they don't, I mean, they they obviously they know, but they don't have that quality time uh with their uh fathers, spouses, uh uh, etc. I know some couples that divorce and they will never say that it's because of reserve duty, but obviously this is something that stressed the relationship and caused all of that. So all of my surroundings uh are affected with this very clear need for additional soldiers, which end up uh being a huge burden uh on reserve soldiers that leave their careers, they leave their families, they leave everything. And there's this incredible security need where we actually need uh these soldiers in order to win the wars. And as a right winger who says all the time that I put national security as number one, that's the number one thing uh on my list, uh, then I just couldn't play along uh with this uh political consideration of let's see how we can last another few weeks, another few months in power, uh, maybe also get a coalition after the next election, but at the sacrifice uh of our national security. And the the I think that it should be the other way around. National security comes first, uh, and afterwards we see what we can do politically. Politics includes compromises and everything, that's fine. But first and foremost, we need to uh put national security. Uh, and so that that's basically what the considerations were uh in order for me to take such a strong stance uh on this issue.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Dan, you you joined the Knesset uh almost four years ago with the elections of uh November 2022. And I'm guessing that along the way, as you were taking this very principled stance, and you say politics are compromised, but I'm guessing that some people and people who might be listening to you, but members of the Leikud Party who you would interact with that to come on, uh come on. You're you're you're you're naive, uh you're making a mistake, it's not the right political decision, fall in line, stand behind the leader, stand behind the party. This is what we have to do for survival. Um, this is what's needed. Uh why why not listen to them?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Because I didn't go into politics in order to just be nice and survive and see how long I can stay in the game. I came in in order to make a difference. Uh and I understood, again, first of all, for the personal reason of seeing all my friends, I should be in there on the front lines with them, sacrificing my life. They're sacrificing their lives, they can't sacrifice my political post. I mean, that that that's at the end of what's on the line. Uh, and uh that's not something that I was willing to do. And to be honest, it's also a question of personality. I made a video a few weeks ago, a few months ago in Hebrew. Uh, I don't know how many of your listeners saw Hamilton in the uh the play. Uh and I I told uh the Israeli public, which most of them didn't see Hamilton, but I told them that this is one of the most successful plays in modern history. Uh, and there's two very, very clear personalities there when it comes to politics. I think uh it's on purpose, the hero and the anti-hero. The hero is Hamilton, and the anti-hero is Aaron Burr, which ends up at the end, sorry for the spoiler, but it's history, so anyone who reads history knows Aaron Burr uh ended up uh killing uh Hamilton uh in the end. Uh but what the first time that they actually meet that says this thing for the hero, anti-hero, Hamilton speaks a lot about his values, and Aaron Burr tells them, Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, if you want to succeed in politics, in life, or in whatever, talk less, smile more. That's his line. Uh don't let anyone know what you are against or what you're for. That's the line that he actually tells Hamilton. So that's the anti-hero. That's exactly why I do not want to be in politics. I want to be in politics in order to promote values, in order to promote an agenda, in order to promote free markets. That's something that I believe in. National security tops, national security is something I believe in. And yes, enlistment for all, it's one of the things that is actually listed as one of the goals of the Likud party in our constitution. So I'm actually I'm fighting for the values of the Likud. Unfortunately, I have to be honest that I came to the conclusion that my colleagues in the Likud stopped fighting for these values and ended up under uh getting to the conclusion that their being in power is what matters. Likud being in power is what matters. But to me, Likud being in power is if it uh promotes values which are contradictory to what we believe in, uh it not only does it non-matter, it's counterproductive. Uh it's something that I'd rather not rather than something that I want to push for.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

A couple weeks ago on July 15th, I think it was, you um posted on X and Twitter the following. I simply cannot ask you, this was to the public, to vote for a party that I myself can no longer bring myself to vote for. This is no longer the Likud. This is a party that has been hijacked. What do you mean by that? What is that what does it mean hijacked?

SPEAKER_01 9:29

So that that that's uh interesting because it's on so many different layers that it it will take a tie a few seconds in order to understand. So I appreciate having this podcast, which is a longer form. Uh, because it's been hijacked by many, many different uh uh uh ways and angles. The the most uh basic way, and that's something that we can very clearly see on the issue uh that we've been discussing, is that the coalition dynamics uh and the fact that we've made it very clear that our coalition partners uh are the ultra-orthodox parties and that they will be and that we will be forever uh loyal to them. Uh and that uh that that reality caused us to uh leave many of our values. It's true on enlistment, and by the way, it's not only enlistment, because there's two very, very important challenges that the integration of the ultra-Orthodox community within Israeli society brings. One is defense, that's what we've been speaking about uh this whole time, but there's another one which is incredibly important, and that's economic integration. Right now, only uh women uh in the ultra-Orthodox uh uh community work uh at the same rate as the rest of the population. When it comes to men, um the the great majority of men in the ultra-do-Orthodox community do not work. That means they don't pay taxes. That means that we create a situation where only a very small part, it's not small, it's still the majority today, but it's not everyone, uh pays taxes, works, serves in the army. And then you have this other community that doesn't serve, gets benefits from the state because we have a very strong welfare state in Israel, gets benefits from the state, but doesn't pay taxes. Uh and so this uh dichotomy makes the situation that in the long term, the state of Israel can't survive with this dynamic. It can't survive uh militarily, as we said, but it also can't survive uh uh economically. It can't survive economically because this just can't go on. The taxes will just be too great on part of the population when the Haredi population is growing exponentially. Uh, and as long as it doesn't integrate, it's a problem. If it integrates, then I'm all for which babies being born in the state of Israel. Uh but if it doesn't integrate, then we have this very big problem. Uh and also at the end of the day, the part of the population that that uh uh that does pay tax and does serve will say, wait a minute, uh, why am I here? And again, I'm someone who left everything in Montreal. I finished McGill also, I had opportunities and moved to Israel out of Zionism. But as a uh as a public servant, I can't expect everyone to be an idealist. I can't expect everyone uh to say, even if it's completely illogical uh uh uh uh to live in Israel, uh I'll still do it out of uh out of ideology. That can't be the expectation. The expectation has to be that I give uh the citizens of Israel uh a good quality of life. That's that's my job as an elected official. Uh and so we can't just like continue with the situation. And the Kharedi parties uh make it a point that their goal is to stop disintegration in the economy and society, education-wise, also, they don't learn English, they don't learn math, they don't learn all of these things in their school system. Uh and so all of this makes it uh almost impossible to promote uh a right-wing agenda economically and defense-wise while being uh in a coalition with the Caribbean. And so that's one point uh of hijack. The other point, which I feel personally, as someone who believes very strongly in free markets, uh on a uh both on a values-based level, I believe in freedom and uh economic freedoms, and also when it comes to what works well. Uh and so uh I see the Likud and I see that a lot of interest groups over the years have just joined the Likud uh as members because we're one of the only parties in Israel that have primaries, and so they understand that this is one party that they can influence, even if they don't vote Likud, they'll join it and vote in the primaries, and that creates a situation that any economic reform that is supposed to uh lower the uh the cost of living in Israel and make things easier for the citizens of Israel is just stopped by these interest groups. It might be the uh the unions uh that do that many times, or it might be also uh the farmers' union or things like that, which I'm also farming in Israel. I think agriculture is something which is a Zionist ideal, but it doesn't mean that I need to protect the very specific farmers that are farming today. It means that I need to have a very dynamic farming agriculture uh market in Israel, and they stop anything that tries to make the uh uh competition more uh greater uh in that area. And that's those are just two examples. There's also the example that I try to bring Uber in Israel, uh, and then the taxis, uh the taxi drivers came in uh and stopped that legislation again because they have a lot of power into Likud, etc., etc., etc. Any reform that you actually try to bring, you have this interest group that joins the Likud and tries to stop it uh by political force. That's another example. I can go into more examples, but I think these two examples make it uh clear.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Listen, you won't find a bigger fan of your Uber attempt than me because it's just ridiculous that this country still doesn't have Uber. I want to ask you about one specific vote that I watched the video of, which was deeply disturbing. It was the middle of June. It was about the uh Hokisodli Mut Torah, the the this law of uh that basically one of the readings of it that was supposed to elevate the value of sitting and studying Torah to almost that of uh of military service to make it seem, to make it more difficult essentially to simplify things for the Supreme Court to ever shoot down a uh draft exemption for the ultra-orthodoxes to pass a basic law. You're sitting there reading a book. I couldn't tell what the book was. You'll tell us in a second what it was, and you vote against the law, and then you have these Haredi ultra-orthodox members of Knesset who I don't know that they were going to physically assault you. I did, I wouldn't go that far, but they're coming, converging on you. They have to be stopped by uh Knesset ushers, um, and they're yelling. They're yelling, I think boucha, uh, you know, and be embarrassed, they're yelling other things. I mean that was a pretty uh, I would say, I don't want to say scary, but that was pretty shocking, right? Um I just want also our listeners and viewers to know who don't know you, Don. Um Don is an Orthodox observant Jew, someone who I don't know exactly what you do, but you're you're you're you identify, you wear a kipah, you identify as an observant Jew. Um it was pretty horrifying to see that.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Listen, to me, this legislation was everything but uh uh something that uh uh brings value to Torah. Uh the Torah that I know is a Torah that calls for responsibility. Uh it's a Torah that uh uh tells the people that when your uh brother uh is in need, uh you close the book uh that you're right now learning and you go and help uh your brother that is in need uh because that's more important. Applying Torah is more important than just sitting and learning it. Uh and so uh joining the army is one way, but it's not it's not the only way, by the way. It's just uh Torah needs to be applied, not just learned. It's not just something theoretical, it's something that you're supposed to live. Uh and this uh bill was uh, and it's not, by the way, it's not only I think the the stages over the years said that the worst thing that you can do with Torah uh is to uh make it some a tool in order to get money. And that's why uh uh the Rambam was very much against people uh not working and only learning. Uh and over the ages, you you always had this very, very clear uh saying that the Torah shouldn't be made a tool in order to get personal benefit from, that it should be something that you do in order for your piety, in order for your intellectual pursuit, in order for your uh closeness to God, but not something that you do uh in order to get something uh out of it. Uh and so this uh this bill was supposed to basically make it official that Torah was something that some people could get a personal benefit from, whether it's an exemption from the army or keeping uh state benefit even though uh they don't serve. Uh and so uh this to me was the greatest, as we say in Hebrew, desagration uh of God's name. Now, what happened in the exact vote was that I was actually learning Torah. I learned Mishnayot uh for my mom. My mom passed away uh this last uh uh year, uh and I am trying to uh finish all of the Mishnayot in the year that she passed away in. And so it's not easy, but I have a lot of time in between votes uh in order to get some done. And so that's what I do in between votes. And so it was kind of ironic that you had these people that say uh that Torah study is the most important thing uh that yell at me and bother me while I'm trying to uh study Torah in order not to apply Torah. I mean, what they've been what they were doing is nothing uh that that's called applying Torah, right? Uh and so uh it was a kind of an ironic uh picture. I I was kind of sad that there was no photograph that could take a picture of that because I think it was kind of iconic that you have those parades bothering someone learning Torah in order not to apply Torah uh in the name of learning Torah. So it's kind of ironic, uh, an ironic picture there.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

I uh well it didn't it didn't pass me. I definitely saw it and I uh I f I it looked like uh a a Mishnayot that you were studying, but uh but um I appreciate you clarifying that. I wanna you said recently in an interview, I think it was with Yidiota Khurnot, uh one of the largest Israeli newspapers, that um after October 7th, it seemed that this government was going to be replaced, that there was even some sort of movement within the party of the Likud Party that thought that Netanyahu needed to be replaced. I've heard that before from other people, but it didn't succeed. I mean, there is something to be said about the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu has succeeded in holding on for such a long time as the prime minister and keeping this government for a full term, right? I mean, that that itself is a huge accomplishment. So I mean, uh maybe from his perspective, definitely, politics is is you gotta play the game because you gotta survive. And he does it very well. I mean, what what is your personal take on him, on Netanyahu?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Uh I think that after October 7th, Netanyahu leave. Uh, I've said it very clearly. Uh I I said it in closed conversations before I left Likut, to be honest, but I also never said the opposite in open uh conversations. I had to, as you said, politics is a game where uh you need to also understand how uh not to ruin all the influence that you have. Uh and so I had to keep some of the cards closer to my chest, but I made it a point not to say the opposite also. But I think that after October 7th, after this mega event, uh which uh we we can't ignore uh in Jewish history, then the person that's in charge has to pay a price. If that doesn't happen, uh then it gives a message in uh to Jewish history uh that uh is the opposite of what I see as a Jewish message. I think uh our name uh as Jews comes from Yehuda, uh Judah uh in the Bible, which one of the most iconic scenes was where we took responsibility for a sin that he did. Uh and that's one of the uh of the things which taking responsibility is one of the uh the greatest Jewish values in my eyes. Uh and I think that after something this big happens, uh then this is something that needs to needs to happen. Uh the the prime minister who was in charge at that time just needs to say, he can say it wasn't 100% my fault. I didn't get the right information, let me uh take a few years in order to uh fix the the things and then I'll step down before next elections. Every all of these arguments could I could hear them, but him continuing. Afterwards, uh, to me it's something which doesn't make sense. Uh, this isn't just a regular event. It wasn't just a small terrorist attack. Every terrorist attack is a is a tragedy, but this wasn't just a small terrorist attack, it was a mega event. And after such a mega event, then then I think change needs to happen. Do you think that's anything right now?

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah, I'm curious for your perspective as somebody who's now served in the Knesset almost four years. I feel as a you know as a journalist now for for 25 years in Israel, that there is there's a problem with the culture of accountability in Israel. We we we we don't have that. We it's like it's non-existent. Now, if you go to places like Asia, uh you know, you could have like in Taiwan the whole government disperses as if there's a train accident. So like I that's an extreme. But I feel like we are we are to some extent to the other extreme. People don't take responsibility, they don't hold themselves accountable. And the people, uh the public doesn't have that expectation even of their political leaders. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 23:04

So Steranski has that famous line where he uh says that uh there's no Hebrew words for accountability. So there actually today is a word, uh, but it's a very ugly word and it's not used usually uh by Hebrew speakers. Uh but uh you're right that there is a problem like that in today's politics. I'm not sure it was always like that. I know that Rabin quit the government because he had an American bank account that was open. There wasn't any corruption and no fraud, nothing. It just was an open bank account, and he just quit uh the prime ministership because of that. Uh Bedgin quit uh after uh seeing the number of people that uh died uh in uh Lebanon. I think he also quit because uh he was heartbroken by his wife, but it was a uh combination of different things. I don't think he was responsible for that or things like that, but he felt he uh as accountability again. Uh and so I I I'm not sure it was always like that. I do think that nowadays uh you have that, and I think it's part of the political culture, not only in Israel. I also say that I see it all around the world. Uh the political culture has very much become less about values and principles and policy and more about them and us. Uh I see it in the states also. Uh there's the there's them, uh, and so the Democrats, it's like everyone that's Trump supporters, it's them. Or the Trump supporters is everyone that's Democrats is woke. Like it's uh you you you put everyone in the most uh uh, you know, like uh in everyone's like if you're if you're not pro-Netanyao, then you're probably uh for uh Ram or Yahir Bolan in the best case scenario, which is the far left in Israel, just for those who don't know. Uh and if you're pro-Netanyao, then you're probably uh you love Ben Gvere and you think that he should be prime minister. Uh people don't understand that most, the great, great, great majority is not there and not there, it's in the middle. But it's just the the discussion has become them and us. It's not uh and and then you portray and and and and uh paint the other side as the most extreme version uh of who they are. I think it's no no um coincidence that the campaign of the Likuds now uh and also Smotrich now is to just attack Yerry Golan, uh, who's against the parliament figure that might be part of a coalition if the opposition wins a majority, but who is in no way a major actor. He's not running for prime minister. He's like he'd be part of the coalition. He says he wants to be defense minister, so it's okay. I can say I want to be prime minister. That doesn't mean that uh uh I'm gonna be prime minister. Uh so uh in no way is he a very significant actor, but they're making the whole campaign about him in order to again make this them and us uh thing happen. Uh and uh and then everyone that doesn't want Yayir Golan uh is gonna come back home to them. And so, in this them and us uh dynamic, just to go back to accountability, accountability matters less because the people are so afraid of what would happen if the other extreme takes power uh that uh that they can't think about anything else uh but just stop them from taking power. By the way, it's also true on the other side, right? The left is so afraid of what will happen if Benikvir becomes prime minister after Netanyahu, that they'll do everything in order to uh even though I don't see any scenario where that happens. Again, I mean, would need to build a coalition. I don't know who would build a coalition, even if he becomes extremely popular and brings I don't see any scenario where that happens. But uh but still they're so afraid of that. Uh that uh that that that it it it's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

And then that can but that if I understand, yeah. It it legitimizes everything, it rationalizes everything, it makes it justifiable, right? And therefore I don't have to take it.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Our team winning is the most important thing. That's what that's what matters.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

You haven't you haven't made a decision as of yet, as we're recording this this week, of what your political future will be and if you'll run, and if you do run with who and under what framework. Um But I want to ask you a different question. I'll let you make that announcement when the time is right. But I do, if you had to choose now, what kind of government would you want to see? What would the coalition that you ideally would like to see after the elections on October 27th, what would that look like?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

My number one uh criteria is that everyone in the coalition is to represent uh populations uh that serve. Uh I call that Zionist parties. Uh and so to me, uh anyone uh between uh Smotrich, even Ben Gvir, to be honest, he's the his popul his voters serve, even though he didn't serve, but his voters and and many of his uh uh representatives uh definitely uh did serve and even uh served bravely. And so from anyone from Ben Gvere to uh to Yari Golan to me as someone that's uh legitimate uh as uh people that could be part of a coalition, it doesn't mean that those are people that I want, right? At the end of the day, I'm a right-wing person that wants a right wing agenda, and so I want the person, the people to lead uh the coalition to be very clearly right wing, uh economically, diplomatically, militarily, etc. Uh, but the people uh who are legitimate to be a member of the coalition is anyone who represents populations that serve.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

I'm I'm gonna let you go, Don, but I I can't let you go without taking you back to Canada for a moment, the place that you were born in. Uh you spent your childhood with in Montreal as a member of the Jewish community. Uh you wrote recently in the Jerusalem Post in an op-ed, you wrote, I didn't flee Canada. I left it with profound love and deep appreciation. But at the same time, uh it's no secret that anti-Semitism in Canada might be one of the worst places in where we've seen in the West the explosion of anti-Semitism. And we're talking just about a day or so, a couple of days after a kosher restaurant, the NOAM restaurant, uh was burned down in what is not yet 100% clear was it arson, was it not arson, but it's being investigated as an arson attack. But there's been stories of shots fired at synagogues and schools in Montreal. I mean, the explosion of anti-Semitism is there and across Canada in its entirety is just horrific. What what has happened and and and what can be done, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 29:40

So, first of all, on a personal level, I'd say that on uh my sister was in that restaurant three days ago. She lives in Israel, but she's living in Canada, and she was a few days before the the what looked like an arson attack, I agree with you. We have to be careful before uh jumping to conclusions. But what looks like an arson attack, uh, she wasn't in that specific restaurant. Uh sent us pictures. It looked like amazing food, to be honest. I've never been to that restaurant, it's relatively new. Uh but uh uh new for someone who's been in Israel for 18 years, yeah. But I'm not sure how old it is actually. Uh but uh uh so uh the the uh on a personal level that that's that hit close to home, as uh as we can say. Uh but it comes together with the whole package that you described. Many of the uh the school that was fired that was shot at uh twice, uh United Kamutora was the school where I uh studied at. One of the synagogues where I used to pray at was arson bomb was uh firebomb uh also. Uh and so uh uh the all of these things uh are very close to home, and that's in Montreal. There's things all around Canada, you're right. I think that what you see is a combination of many things. Uh uh it started on October 7th. Uh people get mixed up. They think it's because of the of the management of the war in Gaza that anti-Semitism started. I was in Canada on October 7th. I was actually visiting Canada, showing my wife for the first time what Canada looks like. And at the end of our trip, October 7th happened. And so even though she loved Canada until October 7th, she only has bad memories of that trip, unfortunately. Uh and I was there on October 7th, and I saw on October 7th people driving around with Palestinian flags in the middle of Jewish neighborhoods. Uh neighborhood that anyone who goes to Canada knows that they're very, very clearly Jewish neighborhoods. There's a neighborhood called Kot St. Luke, where everyone, all the Canadians call it Kutzane Jew because it's only Jews that live there. Uh, and so they were obviously uh trying to show support for Hamas and uh pointing, uh putting a finger in the eyes uh of uh of uh poking a finger in the eyes of the Jewish uh community over there. Uh and uh there were the those were signs that things were bubbling or and and and that a genie was going out of the bottle. Uh and unfortunately, I have to say uh that it's very hard to push the genie back into the bottle uh after it's gone out. Now, what I think uh we need to recognize happens is two things. One is that most of the anti-Semitism doesn't come from uh people who have been Canadian for generations, it comes from immigrant communities that haven't been integrated uh properly. I'm not saying that all immigrants uh are anti-Semites, I'm not saying that all Muslims that immigrate to Canada are anti-Semites, or all Arabs that emigrate to Canada are anti-Semites, but we have to recognize that the problems come from these communities. The second part of the problem is the lack of enforcement by the Canadian authorities. Nothing serious is happening in order to try to fight this trend. Uh, and this is something which is very disappointing. I have to say that at some point I felt that it was because of political calculation. People don't know the dynamic of how it works in Canada, but there's a minority government with the center left uh in power, and there's the far left that the center left is basically dependent on in order to rule. And so many times it's gonna cave in uh to the demands of the far left uh in order to keep on uh being in power. And we saw that when it comes to the Palestinian state recognition. I don't think that it's something that was important to the Liberal Party that was in in charge, but it was very important to the NDP, the far left uh party, uh and it's caving in to their demands. And it's also true for many other things uh that that we see. Unfortunately, the the result of that uh is that anti-Semitism isn't taken care of the way it should be taken care of, and so it ends up just growing and growing and growing. Uh, and if they don't take it seriously, then it's just gonna uh continue. And unfortunately, things like we've seen uh in other places, uh in Canada right now, uh I want to say thank God and be very uh careful with what I say, the attacks uh have been uh violent. I'm not saying they haven't been violent, but they haven't had uh victims yet. Right? The one time where we thought uh that someone uh was killed, it ended up not actually being an anti-sematic attack. Uh but the victim, the numbers of victims is but we've seen all around the world, we've seen in the States, we've seen in Australia, and I want to tell you the situation in Canada is much worse than in these places. The fact that it didn't happen yet doesn't mean that the situation isn't worse. It's much worse. It just didn't actualize right uh yet. Uh and so if they don't take it seriously, I'm very worried that it could actualize in a very, very violent and dangerous way.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Well, uh Dan, I want to thank you so much for joining me. Um I want to wish you lots of luck in in this upcoming election. I would I would personally uh love to see you still in the Knesset, because I think that we need people who for change. And and I know that anyone who listens to this podcast will probably think the same. We need people who uh believe in principles uh and are driven by ideology as opposed to by political expediency and convenience. Um and that's something whether you agree with the policy or you don't agree with the policy, but we always want people who are doing what they think is right for the people as opposed to what's right for themselves. And that's just you know, that sounds so crazy in today's Israeli political system that you even have to say that. But uh but I but I I definitely, for what it's worth, appreciate it. So uh member of Knesset, MK Don Eloz, uh I really want to thank you very much for joining us and and best of luck going forward. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Thank you for joining me on today's episode. As always, you can find us where podcasts can be found on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and the website of Times of Israel. We'll be back next week with another episode of the Jewish People's Podcast. In the meantime, please share with friends, family, and whoever you'd like. Give us a five star rating. And we'll see you next week. Have a great Shabbat, have a good weekend.