In our fourth episode of Inside HMCTS podcast, we focus on how we’re making our courts and tribunals more accessible for everyone and how we are supporting people to use our online services.
When people need to come to one of our courts or tribunals, or use our online services, they may require need extra help. We’re committed to removing common barriers people may face to make sure they can access justice at an equal level.
You'll hear from Mike Williams, Deputy Director of Service Excellence, about how court users can request adjustments when visiting one of our buildings and how the Human Voice of Justice is improving our communication.
We also speak to the team at London’s Royal Courts of Justice, to find out about how they are overcoming accessibility challenges at the historic site and we find out what support is available for those who need a helping hand when completing digital forms.
For full transcript of each episode, please visit - Inside HMCTS
In our fourth episode of Inside HMCTS podcast, we focus on how we’re making our courts and tribunals more accessible for everyone and how we are supporting people to use our online services.
When people need to come to one of our courts or tribunals, or use our online services, they may require need extra help. We’re committed to removing common barriers people may face to make sure they can access justice at an equal level.
You'll hear from Mike Williams, Deputy Director of Service Excellence, about how court users can request adjustments when visiting one of our buildings and how the Human Voice of Justice is improving our communication.
We also speak to the team at London’s Royal Courts of Justice, to find out about how they are overcoming accessibility challenges at the historic site and we find out what support is available for those who need a helping hand when completing digital forms.
For full transcript of each episode, please visit - Inside HMCTS
Liz Bryant:
Hello and welcome to this Inside HMCTS podcast. I'm Liz Bryant from the communications team at H.M. Courts and Tribunals Service. When people need to come to one of our courts or tribunals, or use our online services, it's important that everyone can access justice. Some people may need extra support or assistance. At HMCTS, we’re committed to removing common barriers people may face to make sure they can access justice at an equal level.
Today we're talking about how we do just that. Whether that's working to make our court buildings accessible for everyone, providing reasonable adjustments or helping people to use online services.
I'm talking with Mike Williams, Deputy Director of Service Excellence at HMCTS, whose work includes improving access to courts and tribunals. Hello, Mike.
Mike Williams:
Hi, Liz. Great to be here.
Liz Bryant:
I'm also joined by Delivery Director Lisa John and Head of Change, Michelle Kelly, who are working at the Royal Courts of Justice in London to improve support for court users with accessibility needs. Hello, Lisa and Michelle.
Lisa John:
Hi Liz
Michelle Kelly:
Hi, Liz. Thank you for having us.
Liz Bryant:
And also with us today is Barbara Suarez, one of our advisors from the digital support service who helps people access support when filling out online forms independently, and Rosie Deigan from the We Are Group, an organisation which supports people who don't have the digital skills to fill out online forms independently. They're going to talk about how we're helping people who need support to use our online services.
Hello, Barbara.
Barbara Soares:
Hi, Liz. Hi, everyone. Really excited to be here.
Liz Bryant:
Hi, Rosie.
Rosie Deigan:
Hi. Thank you for having me.
Liz Bryant:
Hello. It's lovely to have you all with us today. So, Mike, coming to you first. Can you tell us a bit about the different ways people may need support when they visit a court or tribunal?
Mike Williams:
Yeah, of course. Liz. Often when people think about accessibility, it's the kind of physical access into court. So, you know, how do you get round with ramps or wider doors, for example, for people with physical disabilities. The work that my teams get involved with is around the whole range of accessibility. So that might be somebody who has a visual impairment or maybe neurodiverse. So there's a huge range of things that we get involved with.
Liz Bryant:
Mike, you mentioned about making potentially physical adjustments to buildings, whether we're talking doorways or ramps, things like that.
Mike Williams:
What we do know is that it's not easy to make these changes. A lot of our court buildings are historic buildings and were actually constructed prior to the Equality Act of 2010 coming into force. So although some of our more modern buildings are easier to adapt and you don't have restrictions on those, some of the buildings - and I'm sure we'll be hearing a little bit about the Royal Courts of Justice shortly - are a lot more difficult to adapt.
Liz Bryant:
So one of the ways that we may first hear from someone to know that they need extra support would be a request for a reasonable adjustment. Can you tell us a bit about reasonable adjustments? What are they?
Mike Williams:
Yes, of course. So reasonable adjustments are actually measures that are put in place to provide something different so that a user or an individual can actually access and use our services in the same way as a person who doesn't have a disability. We have a legal duty under the Equality Act to provide those reasonable adjustments for our court and tribunal users who do have a disability.
We also have a wider duty, known as the public sector equality duty, which is to avoid treating people less favorably because of their disability or protected characteristics.
Liz Bryant:
Lisa, can I bring you in here to ask how can people make a request if they need a reasonable adjustment?
Lisa John:
So if an individual coming to court has a disability, they can get in contact with us to make us aware. They should be sent information when they receive the listing notice, which tells them who to contact if they do have to have some kind of adjustment put in place to accommodate their disability.
Equally, on our Find a Court and Tribunal pages for the Royal Courts of Justice, there is information about who you can contact in the court if you want to request a reasonable adjustment. There are email addresses and telephone numbers there, advising you who to contact.
Liz Bryant:
Mike, you mentioned protected characteristics. Can I just get you to describe what that means?
Mike William:
A protected characteristic is actually a characteristic which is protected by law, and it is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of it. So a couple of examples are age, gender reassignment, disability, religion or belief or sexual orientation. Now, that's not an exhaustive list, but that is the type of thing that is a protected characteristic.
Liz Bryant:
Thank you very much for that. So, Lisa, you were mentioning that you work at the Royal Courts of Justice, and obviously that's one of the older sites in our estate. So can you tell us what is accessibility like there?
Lisa John:
Yes, you're right. The Royal Courts of Justice is a very old building. The main building was built in the late 1800s. And I think it's fair to say accessibility wasn't necessarily a feature of the design at that point.
So the building - the physical building - presents a lot of different challenges for us. Some of the entrances have steps and are not accessible to anyone with mobility issues. We also have challenges around the lighting in different parts of the building, so for people with any visual impairments, that can be a challenge.
Although the building presents a lot of accessibility challenges, one of the things that we have found is that it's really important to let our users know up front that they can contact us if they have any accessibility challenges and we can do something to try and accommodate those when they're coming to visit the Royal Courts of Justice.
Liz Bryant:
I believe that you're currently trialling a new approach to that. Can you tell us a bit more about your contact scheme?
Lisa John:
So we have introduced disability contact officers in all divisions of the High Court and the Court of Appeal and we introduced that in 2021. We have done that to try and skill-up some key people who can help and support people who have accessibility challenges, who are coming to the court. They will act as a point of contact for that individual and they can speak to them about what their requirements are so that we can ensure that we are addressing their particular needs when they attend a hearing.
One of the things that we have found is that sometimes, people don't just have one disability or one accessibility requirement. And you talked earlier about reasonable adjustments, but it isn't always one reasonable adjustment that is required, it can be multiple. And so having that disability contact officer and having them speak to the individual, they can understand what those different adjustments are and involve the right people to ensure that those adjustments can be met.
In creating a sort of a network of disability contact officers across the Royal Courts of Justice, what we've also been able to do is to provide an opportunity for a disability contact officer to speak to their colleagues, if they get a request or something they've not come across before.
Liz Bryant:
Michelle, perhaps I could bring you in here. Can you tell us a bit about what kind of extra support you've put in place to help people?
Michelle Kelly:
What we found with the disability contact officers is that having that single point of contact means that actually they can provide support to people to support their individual needs. I think what we've really found is that you can't make assumptions with any disability and that speaking to the user is really important to understand from their perspective what they will require.
And that's what we're really trying to achieve with the disability contact officers. One of the key things that we found has been really helpful is that we can offer a pre-meet. So if someone is coming in to court and say that they want to come to the building prior to their hearing, to get a sense of the sort of challenges they may face in a day in a less stressful time, we found that that's one of the really useful things for people. So that is something that we can offer as well.
A disability contact officer can meet the person beforehand, show them the route and give them a sense of the experience that they'll have on the day to hopefully try and minimize any stress that they may feel. We don't want to add to people's stress on what's probably a very stressful day already.
I just want to mention this one area. So we recognised when we were doing the work on the accessibility programme that, despite being very passionate about the work we're doing and building that knowledge that we had of accessibility, we recognised that we weren’t experts. So we sought the help of the Business Disability Forum and got their consultancy to help us progress the accessibility programme forward at the Royal Courts of Justice.
We gained that input into the accessibility awareness sessions that we rolled out to all staff members to ensure that the way they were pitched was at the right level, the language we're using was correct and also that all of the legal and legislative requirements we were referring to was also correct as well. And we gained that feedback and expertise from them.
Liz Bryant:
So, Mike, if we can perhaps touch back on one or two things you mentioned before. We spoke about how accessibility isn't just about making sure that someone can physically attend a court or a tribunal hearing. Can you perhaps tell us a bit more about the human voice of justice?
What do we mean when we say human voice of justice? And how do we apply this to information about courts and tribunals?
Mike Williams:
The human voice of justice is, in real simple terms, about making how we communicate really easy for our users. We use a lot of jargon in our legal language, and it's about how we cut through that and actually tell our users what they need to know in the most straightforward way possible.
A lot of communication is often in written or letter form, and what we have done is worked with an external organisation when developing the human voice of justice to make sure that we drive a consistent approach and the language that we use is accessible. So, for example, a letter that would have gone out might have been two or three pages long, quite a long-winded letter that is full of lots of complex language. A new version of that letter that was sent out is actually sectioned and it says why the letter’s being sent, what it's about and why it applies. So it's a more simple, accessible letter that's easier to understand and also with the relevant contact details.
Posters and literature around our buildings are another one where we've we had a group set up that was known as ‘poster busters’ that looks at how we make our posters engaging, insightful and accessible as well, so that they tell people and users the information that they need as opposed to having a huge amount of words on them.
Liz Bryant:
And one of the things about the human voice of justice is about continually evolving and improving it. Is that right? So it's not just about talking to people, it's also about listening.
Mike Williams:
Absolutely. Unfortunately, we know we don’t always get it right. That’s why it’s important for our users to let us know when that happens so we can try to stop it happening again.
And actually, at HMCTS, we sit across several cross-government groups where we talk to not only other departments and colleagues across the civil service, but to users of our services as well, to gain that insight. A real key group that we're part of is the Ministry of Justice's Disability Action Group, where we can share our work and opportunities and learn from each other across MoJ.
And we're also members of the Business Disability Forum and they're the leading business membership organisation in disability inclusion. So we actually use that group as a critical friend and ask for their advice and input into things that we're working on where we could improve.
It's actually been a really useful group, particularly around our internal learning for reasonable adjustments, for all our staff across HMCTS. It's also identifying opportunities for where we can improve work that we're doing across the whole space of accessibility.
Liz Bryant:
And you've mentioned how we might incorporate that into letters and communications that we send out. Is this something that also applies for face-to-face communication, just talking when people come into the court. Is it something that applies at every level?
Mike Williams:
It does, yes. So human voice of justice is the whole way that we communicate, whether that is face to face, written, over the phone or with literature, so it applies across the broad range of ways that we may interact or communicate with our users.
Liz Bryant:
Can you tell me a bit about the Sunflower Lanyard scheme, what it signifies and how it works within our courts and tribunals?
Mike Williams:
What we haven't done, is reinvent this. This is actually an internationally recognised scheme and the organisation thought it was a brilliant opportunity for us to join it.
And anybody that comes into one of our buildings can ask for a lanyard. So it can be a user, a member of the judiciary, etc. Anybody that uses our buildings. And what it's there to do is signify, as you rightly say, a lot of disabilities are not visible. And it's also optional. Some people feel that they don't want to share that they have a hidden disability, but for those that do, who may need some assistance, they can put that lanyard on and it just makes our staff aware that that that person who is wearing that lanyard may need additional support and they can be approached and asked if they do need some additional support, or they can also approach us and it's easy for us to recognise that they have an additional need that is not visible.
Liz Bryant:
Michelle, if I can come back to you for a moment. Has the Sunflower Lanyard been popular at the Royal Courts of Justice?
Michelle Kelly:
Yes. So the Royal Courts of Justice was actually a pilot of the Sunflower Lanyard scheme before it went national in the summer, and it's been really successful in the Royal Courts of Justice. So each entrance has a pile of sunflower lanyards that the security team can give out to users and people are aware of the scheme as well through the posters that we've got around the buildings. We've often seen since the pilot, that when people are requesting reasonable adjustments, they are requesting that a Sunflower Lanyard can be available upon them arriving. So it's a great scheme.
Liz Bryant:
So we have seen a recent change to the law which has allowed British sign language interpreters into the jury deliberation room for the first time as a 13th person to be able to interpret for deaf people.
Mike, can you tell me how we've made sure that deaf jurors can serve in a trial for the first time?
Mike Williams:
It was back in July of 2022, in a trial at Croydon Crown Court, that we actually had our first deaf juror who was able to serve in a trial and was aided by British Sign Language interpreters. And there was a lot that we had to do to make this happen. We worked with the member of the jury leading up to the trial to consider many things like the layout of the court rooms and the deliberation room to plan where the juror and interpreters would be best placed to sit to allow all jurors to follow the trial.
We also worked with the British Deaf Association and sought their advice on how best we could support that juror to make their experience as accessible and as engaging as possible.
The result was resoundingly positive, and what we got was feedback from that juror as well, which is helping shape the guidance in that area.
Liz Bryant:
So we've spoken quite a lot so far about people actually coming to our buildings, visiting a court or a tribunal. But of course, many of our services are now online, like, for example, applying for help paying court fees. But not everyone has the skills or the confidence to use digital services or go online. So, Barbara, can I bring you in? What can you tell us about the National Digital Support Service?
Barbara Soares:
So the National Digital Support Service is a service to help users who don't have access to the Internet, to access online courts and tribunal forms. So it's not just limited to people who don't have access to the Internet. It's also for people who aren't confident at all.
We have partnered with an organisation called the We Are Group and they are the ones who help deliver this service to our users. This helps users to get the support that they need and ensures that everyone has the same access to our online forms.
So yeah, it's things like if you want to appeal a benefit decision, if you need to apply for a divorce online and things such as making a small claim and going to small claims court.
Liz Bryant:
So what kind of support does the service provide? Barbara and Rosie, tell me a bit more about what happens when you contact them.
Rosie Deigan:
We go through a triage process ourselves, and then we'll decide whether the end user needs the support. And it’s usually because people don't have the network to help them or they just don't have the confidence online or they don't have access online.
So we go through a triage process and then we work with a whole network across the UK in the community, such as community hubs, libraries, and then people will come over and get that digital support that way. We book in the appointments through the network. We've helped more than 6,300 people between June last year and December 2023.
Liz Bryant:
Barbara, if someone wants to access this kind of help, how do they get in touch with HMCTS to ask for it?
Barbara Soares:
There are many different ways, which is really, really good, because not everyone can go online. So it's a piece of cake. You can call our courts and tribunal centers and you can explain to them that you have this form, you need help and you don't have the confidence to do so, or you might not have the Internet.
But also when you do call directly to our courts and tribunal centres, there is an automated voice that asks you whether you want to speak to someone directly from We Are Group. And then that way you can be transferred straight to We Are Group and they will talk you through the process, try to better understand what it is that you need from their service by triaging you.
Liz Bryant:
It may be that someone begins the process of using one of our services. They might get started and it's at that point that they realise that actually, they may benefit from a bit of support. So what happens if someone's already begun their journey? Can they still get in touch for help?
Barbara Soares:
For some people, they might go online to attempt this application themselves and they realise that they might not trust the system themselves or they might not trust it’s definitely gone through. Not everyone understands how to use online forms like others do, and it's totally understandable. But we can then talk you through the process of understanding what part needs support with when it comes to the specific form.
The service is completely free to use within HMCTS and it's free to use if you talk to We Are Group directly too.
Liz Bryant:
I'd like to thank all of our guests for joining us today. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and your expertise.
If you'd like any more information on how we're helping people access justice, please visit the GOV.UK website and search for Vulnerability Action Plan. You can also read Mike's blogpost on how we're improving accessibility and a post on the Royal Courts of Justice by visiting our blog Inside HMCTS.blog.gov.UK and search for accessibility.
You can also listen to our other recent podcast on Neurodiversity and Remote hearings. Thank you so much for listening. We look forward to speaking to you again soon.