S01E02 - Interview with Graham McGrath pt 1

A Journey into Krull with Graham McGrath - Krulltimate Podcast

Join Professor Krebs in this exciting episode of the Krulltimate Podcast as he sits down with actor and humanitarian Graham McGrath. They delve into Graham's early introduction to acting and his role as Titch in the movie Krull. Listen to behind-the-scenes stories from Pinewood Studios, insights on filming challenging scenes like the swamp sequence, and Graham's reflections on working with legendary actors. This episode also explores the character of Titch, his backstory, and the intriguing world of Krull. Don't miss this fascinating chat filled with anecdotes, memories, and deep dives into the making of a cult classic.

Transcript

Professor Krebs: 0:05

Welcome to the show. I am Professor Krebs. This is the Krulltimate podcast. And this episode in particular is something that I have been chomping at the bit to get to. Because I get to spend time with a wonderful human being, an incredible philanthropist, someone that I identified with early in my Krull experience, and someone I am honored to call my friend, actor, and incredible humanitarian Graham McGrath. How you doing, my friend?

Graham McGrath: 0:39

Hello, Krebs. Honestly, that, was a very, very kind introduction. Thank you.

Professor Krebs: 0:45

it is easy with humans like you. First and foremost, let's just for the sake of those who have not heard us talk before, can you give us sort of the background of how you were introduced to the project, how you came on board in the 1st place, all sort of like the origin story of how Graham became Titch.

Graham McGrath: 1:04

Of course. Well, clearly I was only 10 years old when I made Krull, and what happened to lead up to that moment was I used to attend a speech and drama class after school once a week, including with one of my best friends here in the UK. And one day an agent came along to see me. What we were doing and took some of the kids onto, onto her books. And both my friend and I were quite successful in terms of getting some good work. We actually worked together in one of the first TV shows we did. And we, I did some theater and then I made a BBC serialization of, of great expectations. And I was the young Pip. It seemed that the producers at Columbia pictures at the time, Ron Silverman and his wife Moira had seen this on television and kind of wanted to see me for the part of Titch. And that led to being invited to, to an audition meeting at Pinewood Studios. One bleak. Dark evening where my, my dad got completely lost on the way to the studios, a friend of his told him it was somewhere up the M1 which if you know, the geography of London is completely wrong. It's like 12 o'clock going north versus nine o'clock going west on the, on the orbital system. We got there in the end, slightly late and had a meeting and, and then I landed the part, which, which which was terrific.

Professor Krebs: 2:43

And for those who don't know, Pinewood is incredibly famous for an IP or three that was filmed there. How would, how would the average Joe know about Pinewood Studios?

Graham McGrath: 2:54

Mostly because of the number of Bond films that came out of the studios you know, since the sixties. That, you know Cubby Broccoli built the biggest stage at the time the 007 stage and it's still very much there and it's a number of iterations because it's burnt down a few times over the years. But the 007 stage when, when we were shooting, I hope I'm not jumping the gun here, but,

Professor Krebs: 3:18

no, not at

Graham McGrath: 3:19

was the setting for, for The Great Swamp in which, you know, the, the, the band of travellers on Krull travelled across. Now the 007 stage was originally built for the Roger Moore film, The Spy Who Loved Me, I think it is. Seen my Bond knowledge is slipping me this morning. With the submarines.

Professor Krebs: 3:43

looked it up. I don't know.

Graham McGrath: 3:45

one with the submarines in the ship anyway and effectively inside the hull of the ship with floating submarines is the 007 stage. It's a huge water tank. And so the swamp in Krull was basically a platform built across this whole water tank with various openings for the you know, the one, the, the, the, the ponds and the, the quicksand with hydraulic lifts below to sort of create a sense of sinking. And so it's Actually quite, quite a hazardous place, we were always warned where not to stray because there would have been, you know, potentially a hole that you drop down and into very deep waters and potentially not get back up again. But yeah, vast, vast set on the 007 stage at Pinewood. All sorts of movies have been shot there. It's expanded massively just in recent years as part of the Pinewood Shepperton group. You have Netflix and Amazon have taken over parts of the studios and invested in the expansions. I'd even filmed there in later life as a young adult for a TV detective drama. As well, there's some, there's an aura about Pinewood. It's It's got something about it that, you know it's very special to, to be in, in that environment.

Professor Krebs: 5:04

When was the first time that you got to be on the soundstage in that enormous volume of space?

Graham McGrath: 5:11

So I think it was hang on, let's think the first time on, on that particular stage. It was when we were the, the, the band of the band traveling across the swamp. I guess pretty much chronologically in terms of story. So there was a period of time where everything that needed to be shot on the swamp was shot. Obviously, because while that was happening, they were building the next set in another soundstage for another section. I mean, Krull basically took over Pinewood for, for that production. It was quite extraordinary.

Professor Krebs: 5:48

It was such an immense production. And, you know, you hear various members of the crew talk about like, how they were pressed up against both time and budget to make everything happen you were 10 years old when all of this was happening. Was there any sort of efforts made to include you into more of the behind-the-scenes, bigger-picture type things like, like budget and stress and, and time, or was there more of an effort to like shield you from that, because of your age at the time?

Graham McGrath: 6:20

My experience even before then was that there was always a degree of pressure and schedule. You know, it, as fun as it was, it was a professional environment. And you know, also having, having been at the National Theatre before that and at the Shaftesbury Theatre in London in the West End, you know, I'd become disciplined in terms of, you know, you, you wait and you wait and you wait, and then you need to be ready and you need to be on. And that's very much the process. So, so I would, you know, for, for the point where they're ready to take that shot, having spent hours and hours or days setting something up and then you, you have to be on. So it wasn't a case of being shielded from it necessarily. It was just that that was just the process of, of, of working. I think it's why I enjoy the film stroke movie making process more than anything because of the There's an added layer of intensity but there's also, you know, an amazing amount of focus in terms of what ends up in that frame in that very moment.

Professor Krebs: 7:29

Speaking of the swamp scene, as I reflect back on it in my mind having seen the movie dozens of times at this point in my life when you had Menno fall into the quicksand, the bandits rally together, Prince Colwyn's calling out you know, stretch and save him and all this other stuff. We know that The Seer, the Emerald Seer is put off to the side to sit down and that's of course where he's ambushed by the Changeling spoilers, everyone do you remember what you were doing as an actor during the chain of helping hands trying to get people out of the quicksand?

Graham McGrath: 8:05

Yeah, because we were in a chain, and it was very much a tug of war, if you like. But it was, you know, I felt I was part of those people trying to save, you know, the drowning, drowning Menno in the quicksand. Was, that was the that was the thing I loved about acting from a young age was that, that being able to step into this moment of whatever you're creating to create a new truth. You know, this is, this is, this is what makes the whole thing come together. It wasn't just about standing there in, in, in shot. I was, you know, committed to what we were trying to do. And and you know, it, I was also full of admiration for, for the stunt guys that were doing this stuff. Minnow was, was one of the stunt performers who spoiler alert was also a slayer at various points in time, but you know, he was standing on a hydraulic scissor lift, which was underwater, there was about two feet worth of chopped up cork and, you know, colored in to match the sand barren sort of stretch of, of the swamp. It, you know, it was incredibly, we did, we did more than one take and and he's having to go under and you know, ultimately with this hand and, and the camera, the cameras kept rolling for, for long periods of time after he was submerged. So it really was exciting and scary and fascinating at the same time. But to answer your question, go back to answer your question. I was, I was there, I was there trying to save him.

Professor Krebs: 9:53

Perfect. I'm glad that you were included in the chain and I'm, I'm sure if I were a little bit more eagle eyed and watching the film I'd see you there. I think a lot of the attention of course gets drawn to Colwyn who's, you know, leading the charge back into the quicksand. One thing that has boiled in my mind as you and I have talked about over the last year is there you are at 10 years old, you're being a professional actor amongst a brilliant collection of other British actors and one American. And Everyone is acting at a very high professional level. Everyone's an adult, but you at that time. Was there ever a point at which you started exploring Titch as a character in terms of like backstory or even future progression of the character? Even if it was outside the sort of the frame of the film itself was, were there ways that you breathed life into Titch outside of the script?

Graham McGrath: 10:46

Yeah. I think with any, with any sort of character that you're playing, you have to have your, your backstory for yourself, what you end up seeing Ideally for any performance is, is the tip of the iceberg and all your sort of background prep and, and whatever you, whatever brings you to that point of the tip of the iceberg is the character you portray that everything else is, is what's under the surface and actually has the impact on, on, on what you see, you know, with, with, with storytelling in general, whether, whether you're. Your performance is, is playing a musical instrument or, or whether it's acting it's all about the rehearsal and preparation and the more that you rehearse and prepare, then the more natural and straightforward the performances so that, that it's, then not mechanical. It's as real as, as possible. That's my approach. For me, it's all about what the performances that I admire the most is when you look at actors and it's almost like they're not doing anything it's what they're doing when they're listening, what most, no, that's not fair, not most, but what many, Actors, or what many people think actors are doing is performing every time. Actually, the best performance is coming from reacting. You're listening, you're looking, you're watching whether there are other characters in the scene or not. It's how your character is reacting to the situation, just to make it authentic as possible.

Professor Krebs: 12:27

That's fantastic advice especially to someone like myself, who's an amateur actor and is nowhere on your level, it's nice to hear a little piece of advice to help me get one step closer to being as cool as you. So one question I have, and maybe there's not a good answer to this and that's fine. But one question I've always had is in, even if it's something that you came up with, or maybe it was story that was explained to you behind the scenes, how did Titch come to be the apprentice of the Emerald Seer?

Graham McGrath: 12:58

So this wasn't explained really explicitly. There were, you know, I don't think Peter had a, a, a lot of interest in, in Titch in terms of the story. You know, because originally Titch wasn't going to survive beyond the swamp. I think he was, you know, originally going to go down with the seer. But it was the producers that wanted Titch to continue and be part of the, the small number of survivors spoiler alert that make it, you know, beyond the, the Black Fortress with Princess Lyssa saved from the Beast. So, for me, it was just really having an understanding of, of this you know, orphaned child, but being part of a family of, of oracles people that were known on planet Krull to, to, Be consulted when some wisdom was sought which, you know, still goes on planet earth to this day, you know, where, where people seek answers from, from those that, that might have divine insights to things. So, so that was sort of where I was and, and if anything, the closest thing I could, I would relate my relationship to, to the seer. Titch's relationship. I say my for for viewers and and and listeners forgive me because I'm talking from Titch's point of view a lot of the time. But my relationship with with the seer was was that of a wonderful grandfather. You know, my sage my, my, my tutor, my guide And would go anywhere with the Seer, you know, there was no question. And that's why when, when you see everyone first entering the Emerald Grotto, Titch is there on standby, you know, to, to help and serve and, and you know, he is the, the apprentice is the Seer's future in terms of, of carrying on this particular Oracle's legacy.

Professor Krebs: 15:01

That's a fantastic thing. You just pointed out is the place where the Emerald seer is met by Yenir and Torquil and Colwyn and Ergo is that place officially called the Emerald Grotto, or is that a nickname that you've come up with just to give it a name in space?

Graham McGrath: 15:17

I, that came to my mind just then because I remember it being in, in one of the versions of the script, you know, it was referred to that way.

Professor Krebs: 15:25

I'm not even sure that's how it's referred to in the book, which is, you know, the book is so interesting to me because it's an adaptation of. Of the script and the notes and, and, you know, basically the writers who wrote the script to begin with, got to insert a lot of information with Alan Dean Foster that never made it into the film or that wasn't explicitly stated in the film, right? I was curious if that was the official name, and you're saying that in an earlier version of the script, that may have been how it was referred to?

Graham McGrath: 15:55

You know, it's it's just another word for a cave, I guess, but it's, it has a, for me, it had a bit more sort of magic about it. A grotto cave.

Professor Krebs: 16:06

it's better to say, yeah, it's, it's, it's more ethereal to call something a vale as opposed to like a meadow, you know, that sort of thing.

Graham McGrath: 16:14

Yeah. It's more poetic, I guess.

Professor Krebs: 16:17

Once upon a time I was watching Krull with a good buddy of mine who is also a Krull fan, and I have, gosh, what would it be? I have something like 15 years on him or something like that. Like I I'm, I'm significantly his senior, but he and I are excellent friends. And we sat down one time when he was visiting and we watched Kroll, but we did something we'd never done before. And we plopped in the blu ray because it had the best visual fidelity. And we watched the film with remote in hand and we would pause it and go frame by frame at certain points to analyze what was going on in ways that we hadn't before we turned a 200 minute movie, an hour and 40 minute movie into like a four and a half hour experience. And it was, it was great for us. I think my wife would have other things to say about it, but one of the things that we, that we noticed, it was the first time I ever noticed this, but the Emerald seer has animals in the grotto, you know, like it, everyone wants to talk to you about, Oh, you got to hold a sleeping tiger on your lap and, and things of that nature. Right. But but there were animals in the, in the Emerald Seer's cave. Do you remember what animals were there when you were shooting?

Graham McGrath: 17:32

I am intrigued. I don't

Professor Krebs: 17:36

I, I, I, I was stunned too, but it actually kind of makes sense in terms of, of, of just like the practicality of, of living inside of a cave with no, you know, perceivable entrance or exit. In the back when, where you and David Battley sit to introduce yourselves to each other, there were, if I'm not mistaken, three, there's at least two, but I think there are three goats. in the back of the cave.

Graham McGrath: 18:01

Ah, yes.

Professor Krebs: 18:03

Do you remember? Do you remember any of the experience of having those animals on the set during that time?

Graham McGrath: 18:08

You know, brought in at the last minute, obviously, and position. But what's so interesting is that when you said the goats, the one thing you know what it's like with your sense of smell being very closely linked to memory, is that the Emerald Cave had a, you know, I always think of the smell. I can think of the smell when we were on different stages, you know, different places, there was always, you know, certain things. It might even have been the fumes from certain pieces of set that were being painted at the last second where, you know, just being touched up and decorated or it might have been the type of surface, for instance, in the in the forest with the giant trees that has a particular smell. And if I happen to smell it in, in nature, it just takes me back to, you know, it's strange, isn't it? So yes, the Emerald cave did smell of goats.

Professor Krebs: 19:03

It did smell of goats. And I imagine I've never had to film with goats. I filmed with horses before, but I've never filmed with goats. And, and I imagine that has to be really obnoxious, like goats are not known for being really complacent, easy to work with animals. I think that might be why typically they're, they're kept on property that with lots of space between houses, because they are loud and obnoxious. Were there any, like, Issues with that. Did any actors struggle with that? Did David Battley have terrible allergies that had to be combated? Like, well, I never thought I'd ask this many questions about goats in Krull, but I am dreadfully curious.

Graham McGrath: 19:43

David was not good with animals. I mean, he was terrified of horses. Absolutely terrified.

Professor Krebs: 19:51

He was terrified of horses.

Graham McGrath: 19:54

Yeah, so when, you know, for instance, when we're rounding up the fire mares and I'm right out there, you know, helping to corral them, David was really very scared. staying back in the, in the protection of this, this overhang in the cliff. But in terms of the goats, I mean, the one thing that I will say, Krebs, about animals used, used for film, is that the people that, that work with them, Are quite incredible in terms of training, I was lucky enough to visit the, the, the people that were doing the owls at Leavesden for, for Harry Potter probably a decade or so ago now. And I've worked with animal trainers and it's remarkable that however ignorant you think an animal might be or how you know, uncontrollable it might be through positive reinforcement. I'm, you know, I've been amazed at how animals will perform through their own free will. They're not, not being forced or coerced. But it's just about really, really excellent training. So even then with, with the goats, that they were happily distracted by the, the promise of reward. Cause that's really what it comes down to. And there was a person I think who looked after them hiding, hiding down below that raised section. You know, making sure that they didn't suddenly run off, but you're, you're quite right though. Goats are not your first choice of animal necessarily you think of. But yeah, they, they were brought in, taken straight off after each setup. So didn't cause anyone any problems and and David certainly didn't want to go in near them.

Professor Krebs: 21:38

David Battley is absolutely on the list of people I wish I'd had a chance to meet in this lifetime. Well, you know, I, there is a behind the scenes special that can be viewed on the special edition, DVD a fantastic, wonderful piece of television magic from the eighties. In that special, they have a sequence where a lot of the main cast are being brought on for like a cold read and and David Battley is shaking hands with a young boy. And every time I go through that sequence and I watch that over and over again, it is ambiguous as to whether that young boy is actually you. or a different little boy. Do you remember if in that television special, if that behind the scenes footage was of you shaking hands with David badly or was that somebody else?

Graham McGrath: 22:31

Was the boy in a school uniform?

Professor Krebs: 22:34

Yes.

Graham McGrath: 22:35

Yeah, that was me.

Professor Krebs: 22:37

Perfect. I think at that point then you probably were closer. Were you closer to nine at that point or were you still 10 at that point?

Graham McGrath: 22:44

No, I would have been 10. So, it was in the autumn of, of of the year of me turning subs, you know, turning 10 in July. Autumn was the auditions and pre production and then the read throughs and then the, you know, from January onwards was when we went into, into production So yeah, I was already 10. And, and the, the read through is, is, which is what you would have seen in that clip was just when, you know, the cast assemble as all engaged on the production. And the read through isn't really to perform necessarily, it's just to get a general flow and for people to, to sort of register chemistry and, and things like that. So it's, it's quite it's quite a thing when you have everybody around the table at the same time, because that's probably the only time everyone's in the room together. Everything that happens subsequently. Generally, not everyone is in the same scene. So, you know, that collective moment at the beginning is quite something.

Professor Krebs: 23:55

And there you were around a table with Freddie Jones and Alun Armstrong and a young up and comer Liam Neeson and Lysette Anthony and David Battley and all these wonderful human beings, you know, who are incredible actors and performers what was that like being in that room with everybody at the same time with the same purpose at that scope?

Graham McGrath: 24:20

It was it was awe inspiring. It was really exciting. And, and you know, we were in this room in the original main building at Pinewood studios. It, everything had that sense of prestige and and, you know, even from the producer's point of view, this, they had so much belief in, in this project. So there was a real tangible excitement and you know, as you say, the, some of the people that have subsequently gone on to be, you know, very, very, very successful, such as Liam or Robbie the late Robbie they were young and, you know, nervous and excited and, you know, at that point in time, Freddie Jones certainly had, had, had some had, you know, had some real credibility. But there was, there was, you know, a real energy which was absolutely fantastic to be, to be in the room at the table with, with that group of people. So there's, there's only a few projects. That I've been involved with over the years where you have that proper all cast read through and they are special moments because it's that first colloquium of, of the, the people that will bring the story to life.

Professor Krebs: 25:33

Switching gears into the mythos of the world and, and speaking from the point of, of Krull being a reality as opposed to a fiction other than Titch, what character's story, experience, origin, any of that, what is one or a few of your favorite characters and their origins and where they would go after the film?

Graham McGrath: 25:57

Well, that, that's a good question. Thank you so very kindly for listening to this episode of the Krulltimate podcast and this it is given YOU to know. That the second half of this interview is coming next. Until then, I have been your host, Professor Krebs, and this is the Krulltimate podcast.