The Krulltimate Podcast

S01E08 - Interview with Connor Anderson Part 3

• Joshua Krebs • Season 1 • Episode 8

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In this bonus-length episode of the Krulltimate Podcast, host Professor Krebs and guest Connor Anderson explore the intricate world of the 1983 sci-fi fantasy film Krull. They delve into the film's lore, dissect various plot points, discuss the characters and their significance, and Professor Krebs gets ambusheed with a challenging Krull trivia quiz! Together, they unpack the mysterious elements and nuances of the movie, all while demonstrating their profound appreciation for this classic piece of cinema.

Professor Krebs:

The Cyclops, and to your point, the Cyclops isn't even from Krull, but he knows he has to be there in order to die

Connor Anderson:

How'd it get there, Does he have a spaceship? Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

for so long, which is like, okay, so, you know, he comes from another world and I love how Ynyr just drops that. And nobody reacts.

Connor Anderson:

That's a very common thing on Krull. This guy's from a different planet. Oh yeah, okay, cool.

Professor Krebs:

you know, in our experience of the film, the Black Fortress comes to Krull, it lands and now you have the alien invaders, right? And then things go into motion. The truth is, from what we know from the liner notes, this is not the first time that a Beast has come to Krull and that we could argue that that's where Ynyr got the opportunity to fulfill the prophecy the first time. So so they've they've seen alien invaders before. And there's also no indication of how much time has passed since the alien invaders have arrived, but we know that they are ravaging the countryside. They've taken over the passes. They've, they've done some work. The, the fortress is hopping all over the planet, every sunrise doing harm and burning villages and taking over. So we don't know how long this has been going on when we get to the events of the wedding, the original red wedding, as I like to call it. Um, But, but that, and, and we also know that the kingdom of Turold and the kingdom of Eirig who are like Rome, you know, they're Capulets and Montagues, they have a rivalry that, that, that runs anciently. But if you look at the armor for both kingdoms, they're almost the exact same thing. Just just a color palette

Connor Anderson:

Definitely not a budget choice. It's definitely, uh, an in world mythology thing. Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

I, yes, yes, taking, taking the film as our primary source of truth and the book and the liner notes and other elements, the comic books that you have on your wall, the children's book, all that, taking all of that into account together with the film being sort of the glue that holds it all together and verifies things. Um, it's also important to note that they're wearing like this plastoid armor, right? It's the only thing in the world. That looks plastic.

Connor Anderson:

high tech. Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

So the question becomes, where did that technology come from? Why do only the soldiers of the palace have it? Um, how long have the alien invaders been there? You could take all this into account. And then it does, it does start to make sense that Ynyr would just sit there and be like, the Cyclops come from another world. And, you know, And, and, and nobody bats an eye. They're like, Oh, yeah, it's because we're not alone in the universe. Of course, they come from another world.

Connor Anderson:

Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

So, let me ask you then, we've talked about Ynyr, we've talked about Rell and the what's a little gem, a little hidden nugget in Krull that you absolutely love that maybe a lot of people just overlook because it's just a moment of exposition or, or maybe it's an angle or a scene.

Connor Anderson:

I, um, okay. So I love, there are a lot of, this is such a quotable film, right? There are a lot of little just throwaway lines that are just astonishingly good. Um, but I don't want to do just dialogue. I think your question is bigger than dialogue.

Professor Krebs:

But it can be dialogue and that's okay.

Connor Anderson:

I mean, every single line is perfect. Uh, uh, so without recording the entire film, um, okay, let me think about this. This is tricky. I think. That, well, we can talk about the hourglass in the, right? So there's an hourglass in the web that Lyssa, the Widow, turns to stop the spider. But also, the sand in that hourglass is her life, which she gives to Ynyr until it runs out. I don't even know where to start with that. So there is sand, her life force has been attached to this sand and this hourglass. It can only be turned once, ever, She's never turned it before. The, how did that happen? Who put her life in that hourglass? How did that happen? Did that happen because she killed her kid? What bargain did she make with what sort of thing to turn her life into the sand of that hourglass? This

Professor Krebs:

I,

Connor Anderson:

an open ended question. Please tell me. I don't know yet.

Professor Krebs:

I don't,

Connor Anderson:

cool, weird thing.

Professor Krebs:

It is such a cool, weird thing. And I actually love it. The mystery of it is one of the things that's appealing because even in all of, of the sources that I've seen, there is no explanation. You're describing it accurately. I've fiddled around with theories about this, trying to make something fit, trying to make something stick. Right. And I don't have anything as solid as what we've talked about so far. Uh, but, but. At least some, there are some things we could acknowledge along the way. One is, we know that she's in the same age bracket as Ynyr. She's Ynyr's Lyssa, right? We also know that her little apartment is essentially like a chair, maybe a dais to sleep on and a table. And this table has and a mirror and this and this table has an hourglass. Um, I think that there is something wildly poetic in the fact that her punishment has a mirror.

Connor Anderson:

Do you think the same power that makes, uh, the Widow live so long is the same thing that makes Ynyr live so long? Does he have an hourglass somewhere, or are they the same hourglass? Is for some reason both of their sand in that hourglass? Which

Professor Krebs:

I think it's still, I think it's still her life, but what we see is sort of the, the confirmation that their lives were always intertwined.

Connor Anderson:

Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

That they were, that they had chosen paths such that their destinies became interwoven and were inextricably now connected. It didn't have to be that way, as we learned from the Cyclops, doesn't have to be that way. But they had made choices in their youth that caused that weave to occur. And now they were tied to each other. Um, and he, and how does he spend his life? Staying as far from her as he can. Um, And, and he ultimately can't, right? Eventually he has to, his, his life doesn't end until he reaches,

Connor Anderson:

with

Professor Krebs:

yeah, he reaches, um, sort of a, uh, what's what I'm looking for? Not redemption, but, um, he, Yeah, he gets closure with her, right? He gains her forgiveness. They it's the poetry and the beauty of their tragedy. Theirs is the is the first tragedy of Krull, right? The tragedy in a romantic literary sense is so profound and beautiful. The more you dig at it, the more it digs at you. You know, and, and so to go back to your question, you asked, you asked a simple question that's easy to answer, which is, is this her punishment for killing her son? Yes. And she says it right. She a hundred percent just says it out loud. She's all, and this is my punishment. There is something very interesting that happens when she talks about the sand. She, she says it can be turned only once and it's Francesca Annis with this gorgeous British accent and gorgeous British face. But I D I digress. Um, this gorgeous British accent. She says, That is the lore of the web. Now, she says it with an accent that can be interpreted one of two ways. It's either the lore of the web, or it is the law of the web. And according to the subtitles, and if I'm not mistaken, the book, she actually says law. So

Connor Anderson:

I always heard it as lure. Like that's, that's what makes you want to go in here. The lure of the web. Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

of the web. I, I, you know what,

Connor Anderson:

I'm going to look it up right now while we're talking.

Professor Krebs:

Yes, we should. We should. Uh, for the longest time, that's, I, you're right, that's actually how I interpreted it for a long time was lure, like bait. Um, so actually three ways that could be interpreted

Connor Anderson:

That is the law of the web. Page 164. It may only be turned once. That is the law of the web.

Professor Krebs:

Yeah, but isn't it interesting how she says it because it can be,

Connor Anderson:

I always thought it was lure.

Professor Krebs:

Well, what,

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, I've even read this and I still think it lure.

Professor Krebs:

what if, what if, you know, in an almost biblical literary sense, what if it's actually all three?

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, I think, I

Professor Krebs:

It is the law, it is the lore, it is the lure, right? Like, it works on all three levels, which is one of the, I don't know if Francesca Annas did that deliberately outside of just, you know, the diphthong in her accent, but I, It is absolutely beautiful. Ooh, well in wait now, now do you have the sixth version of the script?

Connor Anderson:

this is the third draft, November

Professor Krebs:

So third, well, third draft would have been Dragons of Krull,

Connor Anderson:

This is the Dragons of Krull, yes.

Professor Krebs:

Do they have the, I, I never, I apologize. I never finished reading my copy.

Connor Anderson:

How

Professor Krebs:

they have, do they have the Widow

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, I'm, I'm reading The Widow right now, uh, but I don't see this line in particular because we have, so it starts on page 69.

Professor Krebs:

So folks at home, this is a reprint of the third edition of the script that Connor made for me. He bound it by hand and put a glaive on the cover.

Connor Anderson:

that, yes.

Professor Krebs:

Yes, it's beautiful and I love it.

Connor Anderson:

Uh, mine is in an old blue folder, which is more accurate to the shooting scripts of the time, but not as cool looking.

Professor Krebs:

it's not as cool looking. Uh, where are you in terms

Connor Anderson:

Uh, page 70, give or take, is where the scene happens.

Professor Krebs:

Just so you know, the Titch I'd wish for a puppy scene is still the same.

Connor Anderson:

what a foolish wish. Um, so, here we have she breaks the hourglass and pours the sand into his open hand. Before that, ah, no, here we go. So,

Professor Krebs:

What page are we on, I'm

Connor Anderson:

page 72. uh, the Widow is talking about where the fortress of Krull will rise, not the Black Fortress yet. It says, Ynyr touches his, his glaive. Not THE glaive, not A glaive, HIS glaive. she says, it will not help. So I think by this, after this draft, it was changed to the hourglass. Which, I think then, the whole, it can only be turned once. It's the lure of the web, the law of the web, uh, was added later.

Professor Krebs:

Well, no, okay, well you

Connor Anderson:

Do you see the, the law line?

Professor Krebs:

well, let's see, maybe on 71, because in 72 she gives him the sand. She breaks the hourglass and pours the sand into his hands. Those are the

Connor Anderson:

all about, uh,

Professor Krebs:

With that line, dude, the way Francesca Ana says it, Those are the sands of my life. Like, the way she says it, oh,

Connor Anderson:

good. This whole movie is so good. We've been talking for almost two hours.

Professor Krebs:

We've been talking for an hour and a half.

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, and

Professor Krebs:

for an hour and a half,

Connor Anderson:

Right. We've been talking for much, much longer than that. I cannot stop the sand. You cannot stop time.

Professor Krebs:

Oh, so good. It's so

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, so I think that is a line post this draft. So we don't have a third reference for whether or not it's law or lure or lore. I, I'm gonna stand, uh, put your thoughts down in the comments. If comments are a thing on podcasts

Professor Krebs:

is on YouTube.

Connor Anderson:

on YouTube. Hey, YouTube. Uh, like, and subscribe to this channel. And also, does she say law or lure? Or lore? Let us know. Let him know. He'll tell me what you write.

Professor Krebs:

All right. So,

Connor Anderson:

I think the McGuffin of Ynyr, using his Glaive to stop the spider was turned into the hourglass. Once the writers decided there was only one Glaive, is my assumption, based on that brief re-reading that

Professor Krebs:

yeah, I'd have to read through the script, but my assumption is in in very much the the Campbell's process of the hero's journey, the idea that like the hero has an elder figure to look to for guidance. It's very much, you know, like a Conan style or, or if you, if you're like me and you like to watch crappy movies on the side, there's Ator, um,

Connor Anderson:

Ator! Ha ha ha! I haven't thought about that. I haven't thought about that movie for a long time.

Professor Krebs:

Ator is such an uncomfortable film to watch, um, the idea that, you know, you, you, you have these two swordsmen, one who is the pupil, one who is the master, and they are like, they're doing the forms together. I imagine in this script, if I read the whole thing, Ynyr is teaching Colwyn how to use the Glaive.

Connor Anderson:

he even says in the film, like, I know the power. You taught it to me, or whatever.

Professor Krebs:

Yeah, he does. He goes, I won't forget, you taught, you taught it to me.

Connor Anderson:

also, while we're kind of on the topic, this is how I found Krull. Uh, I went on a rampage of just Bad 80s sword and sorcery films, right? It was whatever was on whatever streaming service I could find at the time It was just one after the other for like three weeks in a row Uh, years and years and years ago. And then, you know, I was just burning through the list, watched all the classics, and then I got, you know, they're all great, but also awful. And then I got Krull and I was like, okay, one more bad movie. Let's do this. I love these. And it just immediately was like, Oh, this is actually a very good movie. This is way better than. No offense, Beastmaster, this is way better than that,

Professor Krebs:

is better

Connor Anderson:

you know, it was just like, oh, this is, this is amazing. And then I watched it like four times over the next week. And then I just never went back. And now here we are, you know, that's, that's a different story for a different.

Professor Krebs:

I need to get an interview with Mark Singer so I can ask him. So how did you feel when Krull was better than your movie, but did not perform better than you, do

Connor Anderson:

worse than yours, but is better than yours? How do you feel about that?

Professor Krebs:

you feel responsible? No,

Connor Anderson:

Is this your fault?

Professor Krebs:

I will never. Despite the fact that that's how you and I formed a friendship. I don't think that would work on Mark Singer.

Connor Anderson:

Uh,

Professor Krebs:

old do you think you were when you first saw Krull?

Connor Anderson:

that was before we met. So I was uh, in college for sure. Early college, maybe first year of college. Uh, when I first saw Krull, and I had no idea it existed before, I just, it happened to come up on whatever streaming service I was watching, you know, and it was like, Oh, you like these movies? Maybe you'll like this. Okay, sure.

Professor Krebs:

You were using a streaming platform to see it at the

Connor Anderson:

That is correct. Uh, and it, I, I will, I'm still annoyed that Keegan gets one final last line about Merith in his death scene because when I watched it the first time, it was just quiet and you just heard him breathing and it just got quieter and then he stopped and it was so just heartbreaking. It was the best death scene in a movie I've ever seen. Like just watching Torquil stare at Colwyn as his buddy dies off screen is like, holy cow. That's a, that's a move and I get it. I tell Merith, I loved her. Uh, good for you. But it, it, I don't know. I'm not,

Professor Krebs:

It's it's more entertaining in the book in the book, he's like, tell Merith I loved her, and tell Lona I loved her and tell, and then Torquil's like, I understand.

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, I get it.

Professor Krebs:

He's like, he's like, yeah, he stops, but he dies. Um, but I'm with, I'm with you because on another visit, on a subsequent visit to my house, we, we decided to sit down and we put the blu ray and do you remember what that experience was like?

Connor Anderson:

It took us like five and a half hours to watch, uh, to watch Krull, frame by frame. Uh, we saw the, the scaffolding in the, in the swamp set, and that one shot of Rell as he's running with the, His spear after the Changeling, we noticed that great shot of Ynyr where he's not moving until the camera pans down far enough, and then he starts running. Uh, that was, that was a great time. That was a, an absolute blast. I loved, I loved that.

Professor Krebs:

It was, it was one of my favorite watch-throughs and you're right, it took us like four or five hours. I think it was

Connor Anderson:

easily twice the running time of the film.

Professor Krebs:

Yeah. And, and, uh, and I remember we were watching, the death scene comes up and then Torquil like looks up and then you hear Liam Neeson say, tell Merith I loved her and then Torquil almost immediately on the heels of that line says lead on and then they move on. Right. Um, so,

Connor Anderson:

yet. He was just talking.

Professor Krebs:

Yeah, he was just talking. I'm not dead yet. Shut up. You're not playing

Connor Anderson:

We're gonna leave him here, let's go.

Professor Krebs:

Yeah, I, I think that scene and the comparison of the original 1983 return of the Jedi versus the remastered specialized blah, blah, blah, blah, blahs.

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, yeah,

Professor Krebs:

you compare the scene where Darth Vader makes the clear decision to save Luke's life in the original 19 and remember that came out same year before. Uh, Krull, it came out on May 25th of 1983 and Krull came out July 29th of 1983. And uh, I remember seeing both of those movies in that year in theaters. And I, I was only four and a half, but you have the scene where Vader goes to save Luke, which by the way, as a kid, whose hero is Luke Skywalker, that was traumatic. That was, that was. I was having some emotional reactions to that moment in time when he's being electrocuted because Mark Hamill does a phenomenal job in that

Connor Anderson:

It's a great scene. Yeah,

Professor Krebs:

Yeah, Mark Hamill's screams are some of the best. Anyway. Uh, and, and then Vader stands there and then he, you know, he looks and then he looks back at his son and then he looks at the Emperor and then he makes that decision to just get in there. He doesn't say anything. And then in the, in the Blu ray remastered versions, we, we hear the now late and great James Earl Jones say, no, and then he gets in there and he like tosses the Emperor. Uh, and I'm like, Are you stupid? How, how can, can you, George Lucas, who I revered for many, many years, how can you look at a beautiful scene in cinematic history and think, well, what we really need here is a little more dialogue.

Connor Anderson:

we explained what was happening more out loud. Yeah,

Professor Krebs:

say it. And it's like,

Connor Anderson:

best dialogue is no dialogue.

Professor Krebs:

that is a hundred percent correct. Um, the movie Up, where we see the lifetime of them together as a couple.

Connor Anderson:

even start with that. I know. Uh, so,

Professor Krebs:

Lyssa and Ynyr, by the way. The extra line for Keegan, in Krull's

Connor Anderson:

Hello. Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

extra line for Keegan was actually part of the UK cut. Uh, so when they released it, so, so they released it in the U. S. first in July on the 29th, which is Graham McGrath's birthday.

Connor Anderson:

right.

Professor Krebs:

And then, easy to remember, they released it on December 27th that same year in the UK, which

Connor Anderson:

That's your birthday. Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

Um, I will, I will now remember two birthdays anyway.

Connor Anderson:

will too.

Professor Krebs:

And, uh, and so when they released it in the UK, they had time to play with the edit. That is the only place in the film where they deviate.

Connor Anderson:

Interesting. And I will not, I, I don't agree with it They're going to have to. Yeah. I mean, not that my opinion matters about this movie that came out 30 years ago, but like it's, they shouldn't have done that.

Professor Krebs:

40, 41 years

Connor Anderson:

You're right.

Professor Krebs:

41 years

Connor Anderson:

What kind of fan am I? I should just see myself out.

Professor Krebs:

You're the second best fan. I'm number one. But anyway, the point is,

Connor Anderson:

We'll see, Krebs. Are you in fact the number one fan?

Professor Krebs:

I sure hope

Connor Anderson:

in a minute.

Professor Krebs:

we'll get to that. But I want to be the number one guy too. And that's when we like devolve into a Yu Gi Oh battle. But anyway,

Connor Anderson:

play Glaive.

Professor Krebs:

I played, ah, it's super effective. I played Beast's, viscous chest.

Connor Anderson:

Oh no.

Professor Krebs:

Oh, no. Oh, okay. So here's a question I want to ask you about that specifically.

Connor Anderson:

The Beast's viscous chest.

Professor Krebs:

Yes, actually. Uh, so, Colwyn's fighting the Beast. Colwyn's got the Glaive. Colwyn and the Glaive are, are vibing, they're, they're connected, they're doing the thing. Um, and then Colwyn sinks it, yes, yeah, you're going exactly in the right place. Colwyn sinks it, Beast, and then falls down,

Connor Anderson:

Collapses, correct.

Professor Krebs:

And then Colwyn reaches for the Glaive. And then we have some of this brilliant James Horner music, we have this moment,

Connor Anderson:

What a score.

Professor Krebs:

do you remember when you first watched it, how did you interpret that moment? Why, why didn't Colwyn get the Glaive back? What was going on in that

Connor Anderson:

Hmm. I, in my brain, always imagined that whatever magic the Beast has that makes the Beast the Beast is more powerful than Colwyn's attempts to get the Glaive back. But I also think the Glaive, to a certain extent, as we've discussed, has its own purpose about it. It's got its own plan. Right? And so I don't think the Glaive wanted to be retrieved a little bit. You know, I think that it's staying there because it's, that's, it was done. Its purpose with Colwyn is finished. Now it's going to do whatever it's going to do next.

Professor Krebs:

So when I was younger and I saw that scene, I always interpreted, and I, and I interpreted, interpreted it this way for years. Like, Over a couple decades, right? Um, I thought it was stuck.

Connor Anderson:

Sure.

Professor Krebs:

thought, to your point, like, the Beast's anatomy, its magic, its will, whatever the case may be, it held onto the Glaive to act as bait to get Colwyn close, you know, that sort of thing. And so Colwyn is striving, trying to get it to come back, and it's just stuck. And that music is very, especially when you're four and a half years old, that music was really evocative, right?

Connor Anderson:

it's great now

Professor Krebs:

It's phenomenal. And there's a sense of loss. And then he goes after his, his pet Glaive. And then, you know, then the Beast wakes up. But it wasn't until I read the book that they made it abundantly clear. The Glaive wasn't stuck. The Glaive resisted, like Colwyn called the Glaive and the Glaive was like, no. But Colwyn being in the book, they call it a prince of the mind. I'm glad they got away from that because there's already too many accusations that Krull was trying to be too much a Star Wars alike. And the idea that he had this mental willpower, you know, is kind of too

Connor Anderson:

force to do things.

Professor Krebs:

Yeah, I'm glad they got away from that in the film. But in the book, they talk about him being a prince of the mind. And so he has this certain level of like will. It also talks about how Lyssa has a complimentary quality to her that is very similar to Colwyn's but slightly different, right? And so that makes them a match, blah, blah, blah. But he's calling the Glaive back and he's using his will. And that's why there's a struggle because the Glaive is trying to resist, but the Glaive is also being forced to obey. And so there's this, there's this tug of war going on. And so when you watch that scene again with that in mind, and maybe this doesn't change your experience because your experience sounds like it was in line with what the intent was, but when I was younger, I thought it was stuck. And then I watched the scene again, and it's this, to your point, it is a wordless exchange between Colwyn and the Glaive. And when you realize the Glaive is fighting back, that look on Colwyn's face is not failure. That look on Colwyn's face is rejection. That's a little bit of heartbreak, right? Because they have like, they have like this bond, they have a bond that is psychoemotional. And it's, it's not just, well, I'm the manager and you're the employee, right? It's there, there's a, there's a symbiotic bond between them

Connor Anderson:

Yeah. Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

now. So let me ask you the next question then.

Connor Anderson:

Yes.

Professor Krebs:

Why did the Glaive resist?

Connor Anderson:

It, uh, it, I was gonna make a joke about it had to go shopping, and it had to do something else. Uh, It I mean,

Professor Krebs:

time. It's got to wash its

Connor Anderson:

yeah, it needs its own, like, it needs some, you know,

Professor Krebs:

covered in viscous beast chest. I think

Connor Anderson:

it's had a really bad day, and it wants to just go home. Um,

Professor Krebs:

my,

Connor Anderson:

So, I mean, thinking about it from a logical, not a logical, from a thinking about it world, right? The Glaive came to Krull to deliver this message about, hey man, you got a Beast problem coming. I think at that point is the point where the Glaive knew, okay, Colwyn's got this, my mission is elsewhere now, I'm gonna wash my hands of this and just hang out and see what happens, is my assumption. Again, I don't know. For sure, but I think that would make the most sense in my brain. Like, if I had to write it, that would be why it's doing that thing. I think you and I are of a similar mind on that because my, my siblings and I as we were discussing this in the past, we kind of had this great anagnorisis

Professor Krebs:

Of our own where it was like, Oh my gosh, the reason it's resisting is because, it helped Colwyn free Lyssa from the cage. It stymied the Beast. It knocked down the Beast. But what would have happened if Colwyn had retrieved the Glaive at that point? If Colwyn had retrieved the Glaive at that point, he would have kept using it. But then the the Glaive knowing there's some level of wisdom, some level of sentience, some level of understanding that it has that it determined that this was not the time to come back. In fact, actually, to your point, it had fulfilled its mission to the degree it needed to. But because the Glaive did not return and the Glaive also did not become a weapon of the Beast either. Right. But because the Glaive didn't return what happens next in the film

Connor Anderson:

Uh, he uses fire out of his hands.

Professor Krebs:

Yeah, before that though.

Connor Anderson:

Oh, they run?

Professor Krebs:

well, they run right. And then they, and then they get to the center of the fortress, or they get,

Connor Anderson:

They get to the center of the fortress and they realize that, oh hey, oh they went away from the center. of the fortress. It is too powerful in the center of the fortress. Uh, they, they get married. They finish their wedding vows. And, and then they become the all powerful couple that rules the galaxy.

Professor Krebs:

Yeah, they have this moment where, where Lyssa's like, it's not the Glaive, it's you. And then Colwyn goes, it's not me, it's us. And then they have this great epiphany of it will not return to me except by the hand of the woman that I choose as my bride, you know? And then, and this is where we get into a concept that my siblings and I we realized that in the end, Krull is really about the beauty of like the yin and the yang of natural forces, right? That earlier I was talking about how the Glaive needs to be wielded by a man. remember watching, I was watching this and then, uh, my sister's sister-in-law was there and they talk about like, uh, the Glaive can be a powerful weapon in the hands of the right man. And then she spoke up and she said, or woman. And then my sister and I both looked at her and we go, no. And it's because we'd already had this conversation, it's, the Glaive is not about equality in and of itself. The Glaive itself is about giving a power to the other half of this yin yang style force. The woman is already powerful enough because of other things that we've talked about in the past, right? But the man does not yet have his full power. And so this the Glaive is there is sort of like almost like training wheels to discover that fullness of power, right?

Connor Anderson:

you need this to, yeah,

Professor Krebs:

but then the Glaive is lost and that's where them together. The Glaive was really just holding Lyssa's place until Lyssa was available. Right? Because together is where they form their ultimate union to your point. They finish their vows. But also we've come up with this notion of like the bearer of the flame and the wielder of the flame. It's this yin yang power, right? And she can bear the flame, but for the reasons of the natural order, she cannot wield it. He can wield the flame, but for reasons of natural order, he can't bear it.

Connor Anderson:

He doesn't have it. Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

So they need each other. And together they become an unstoppable force. And so I think the Glaive understanding the nature of the planet, it had a long time to like understand the planet while it was sitting in a magma

Connor Anderson:

the lava. Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

It's sitting in the mountain in Italy, but anyway, so, uh, it, it understood in some way on some level that now in order for them to fulfill the prophecy, the Glaive needed to like step out of the picture.

Connor Anderson:

Yes.

Professor Krebs:

We're getting to the very end of this. I have just a couple more quick questions and then we'll get wrap up if you don't mind.

Connor Anderson:

Go for it. And I've still got a good surprise for you. So

Professor Krebs:

I know there's like a surprise that I've put off for two hours. Uh,

Connor Anderson:

I think you're stalling.

Professor Krebs:

I probably a little bit in three more minutes or so. It'll be the length of the film Krull anyway.

Connor Anderson:

to hit that.

Professor Krebs:

We got to hit that. Um, I see behind you a number of like little collectible items, a little bit of Krull memorabilia, which I think is phenomenal. I love seeing it. It makes me so very happy. That poster is a very, very special poster, by the way. The poster, in fact, Connor, if you'll slide to the side for those who can't see this poster features a planet bathed in red with twin suns coming over the horizon, and it has a really interesting description at the top. Uh, but this poster was the promotional poster it was printed in 82 leading up to the film's theatrical release in 83.

Connor Anderson:

is correct. And this is an original.

Professor Krebs:

And that is an original, that's

Connor Anderson:

my favorite piece of Krull thing that I have. I like the Atari game. I like the comic books. I actually have two copies of this one right here, but this poster, I think is my favorite. Thing that I've got

Professor Krebs:

That was exactly what I was going to ask, which is, what is your favorite piece of Krull memorabilia that you

Connor Anderson:

as of right now until I make my replica Glaive, this is my favorite.

Professor Krebs:

Where did you get that poster? It's a rare find.

Connor Anderson:

it is, I remember looking on, I think I got it on eBay if I recall correctly, and I spent a little bit of time looking and just kind of like waiting for a good Krull poster. it was probably four or five years before I found one that I wanted, like an actual old one. It's been one of my prized possessions ever since. Um, I, I, love it.

Professor Krebs:

It's a great

Connor Anderson:

It's so cool. It's so cool. And I love that there's like almost nothing about the movie on there. Like we get the Glaive and the name, but this doesn't show up in the film. This is just a thing for the poster.

Professor Krebs:

I mean, it's got twin suns.

Connor Anderson:

yeah, but like that shot isn't in the movie.

Professor Krebs:

No, it's not in

Connor Anderson:

They just made that for this. And I think

Professor Krebs:

They did.

Connor Anderson:

great.

Professor Krebs:

I'm glad they got, I don't know why it's red, but it, it's red.

Connor Anderson:

Super cool.

Professor Krebs:

In the movie, it's like the planet Endor. It's so green.

Connor Anderson:

Again, what a great shot, right?

Professor Krebs:

It's a phenomenal shot. It's one of the most underappreciated shots in all of

Connor Anderson:

There are still a half dozen films. Again, this doesn't mean anything unless you know who I am personally, but like, I love movies and how they're made. I love being like, oh yeah, model shot, blue screen, yadda yadda yadda. There are shots in Krull that still kind of stump me, and I love that. That planet shot is one of them. It's probably a projection, but it's got 3D mountains, so it can't be that. Anyway, yeah. Yeah, I love the film.

Professor Krebs:

It's I love it. I think it's fantastic. Uh, I guess the next, the next and final question would be, when are you coming back to Utah

Connor Anderson:

Um, as soon as I can, as soon as I can, we're, uh, we got to

Professor Krebs:

2025? Let's do

Connor Anderson:

Yeah. I mean, we still got a few months in 2024. We can make something happen. I'm

Professor Krebs:

can make those work.

Connor Anderson:

it's only eight hours away.

Professor Krebs:

You're invited.

Connor Anderson:

Well, thank you. I accept your invite. Gladly.

Professor Krebs:

Well, then before we put the cherry on top and wrap this show up, is there anything else you wanted to discuss?

Connor Anderson:

sure is. All right, friends, those of you listening at home, uh, the professor here has no idea what's about to happen. I have in front of me, uh, the Krultimate notebook. So Krebs, we have a 10 question trivia quiz for you on the film Krull.

Professor Krebs:

Oh no.

Connor Anderson:

Uh, those of you at

Professor Krebs:

Am I the number one fan?

Connor Anderson:

your questions also and see how well you do. These range from easy. Too difficult, too very difficult. Now,

Professor Krebs:

Oh, I'm so excited. I hope, I hope I get all 10 right. If I don't, does that like, does that like ruin my efficacy on the show?

Connor Anderson:

my, my purpose of this is to show how far I have to go to stump you, to impress the audience, not to make you look bad on your own show. That's not the goal here. I expect you to get most of these correct.

Professor Krebs:

that sounds okay. All right. All right.

Connor Anderson:

Question one, this question is worth as many points as the glaive has.

Professor Krebs:

Five

Connor Anderson:

Correct. Question two, how many times does Ergo transform and into what?

Professor Krebs:

He transforms into a goose. He transforms into a piglet. He transforms into a beagle. And he transforms into a tiger.

Connor Anderson:

is correct. Four times. Goose, pig, puppy, tiger. Number three: How many locations is the Black Fortress seen in during the events of this film?

Professor Krebs:

now that's gonna be tricky. So do you include the intro in the film?

Connor Anderson:

I do. I do include the

Professor Krebs:

Is that considered, is

Connor Anderson:

Space is

Professor Krebs:

one? That's one. Okay. And then, uh, the Slayer's exiting the Fortress, which is actually just a reverse shot.

Connor Anderson:

Which is technically the valley it lands in. I'll give you

Professor Krebs:

Yeah, the Valley it lands in. That's the landing. That's the, yeah. And, uh, then we see, uh, when they retrieve Lyssa, it's actually the forward shot that they used for the reverse shot previously.

Connor Anderson:

hmm. Still in the valley it lands in, like physical locations

Professor Krebs:

just talking like locations. Okay, cool. So, then it transports to the Tundra. And then it transports to the Iron Desert, and then it transports to the Meadow.

Connor Anderson:

valley. That is correct. Fantastic. Well, so far, three correct. Uh, number four, question four. How far can fire mares travel in a single day?

Professor Krebs:

A thousand leagues.

Connor Anderson:

leagues, which is, I think, like, 145 miles an hour, if I, if my vague math is

Professor Krebs:

Oh, I haven't even, I haven't even done the math! If you'd asked me that, I would have died.

Connor Anderson:

Okay,

Professor Krebs:

be like, hang on!

Connor Anderson:

question five.

Professor Krebs:

Question five, I'm only halfway, oh my gosh.

Connor Anderson:

What crest is on the door? Of the wedding ceremony room.

Professor Krebs:

of, uh, Eirigs, it's like this bear-boar

Connor Anderson:

Yes. Fantastic. Well done.

Professor Krebs:

Thank you.

Connor Anderson:

Uh, this is a three part question. All for blank. Part one. Blank. It was given me to know.

Professor Krebs:

This.

Connor Anderson:

Yes. Part two. I don't think I like your blank, old man.

Professor Krebs:

Relatives.

Connor Anderson:

Yes.

Professor Krebs:

Which is one of the best under appreciated lines in the

Connor Anderson:

love that line. I almost brought it up earlier, but I didn't want to ruin the trivia

Professor Krebs:

ha Ha ha ha Death and power are close cousins.

Connor Anderson:

I don't think I like your relatives, old man. Question three. Part three. Blank.

Professor Krebs:

Okay. It could be a few things. One of them is, Lyssa!

Connor Anderson:

That's, good.

Professor Krebs:

That's one. Lyssa! Uh, let's see. Blank.

Connor Anderson:

This one we have talked about today.

Professor Krebs:

Let's see. Uh. Ignorance.

Connor Anderson:

Uh, that's also good, but the answer I was looking for was

Professor Krebs:

you give me a clue? Can you give me a clue?

Connor Anderson:

Keegan.

Professor Krebs:

Hello.

Connor Anderson:

you go. Correct I'll accept all three answers though.

Professor Krebs:

They're great. They're great. Great one word one liners.

Connor Anderson:

Hello? Um, okay, question seven. How many men. Did King Turold lose traveling to King Eirig's castle?

Professor Krebs:

We lost 300.

Connor Anderson:

Phenomenal. Uh, okay. Question eight. You're doing fantastically so far. What dispute caused Ergo's hasty departure before arriving in a forest near the Granite Mountains a thousand miles off course?

Professor Krebs:

Uh, there seemed to be a dispute about a gooseberry pie that a man left sitting on the windowsill.

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, What did he expect?

Professor Krebs:

expect?

Connor Anderson:

he expected to eat it. Uh, Also, interesting they measure both miles and leagues in this world.

Professor Krebs:

Yes, yes. Well, and so do we, right? With miles, nautical miles, kilometers, leagues,

Connor Anderson:

that is correct. Uh, question nine, what color eyes does the beast have?

Professor Krebs:

They are red with vertical black slit pupils.

Connor Anderson:

That is correct. All right, final question. It's a two parter.

Professor Krebs:

Oh no.

Connor Anderson:

So, there's a

Professor Krebs:

The Beast was played by a woman!

Connor Anderson:

You're right! Uh, Not the question, but you're right. Okay.

Professor Krebs:

yes.

Connor Anderson:

So, the first part is A character is referenced by Titch. Uh, his name is blank. He visits the seer sometimes. He doesn't speak much.

Professor Krebs:

This is Rell.

Connor Anderson:

This is Rell. Part 2! During the events of the film, how many words does Rell say?

Professor Krebs:

What? Okay. Let's see. Let's see what we can

Connor Anderson:

do. How many words does Rell say

Professor Krebs:

words?

Connor Anderson:

the film Krull? How many

Professor Krebs:

Hang on a

Connor Anderson:

words? We're not counting grunts or screams, and"firemares" counts as one word, not two.

Professor Krebs:

Yes. Okay."Firemares" counts as one word, not

Connor Anderson:

not two, yeah.

Professor Krebs:

Aren't they, isn't it technically one, or two words? No. Okay.

Connor Anderson:

as a name of"firemares", it's one word.

Professor Krebs:

Okay. We're gonna stick with that. We're

Connor Anderson:

I've got the, I wrote down every line he speaks in the film on this piece of paper. So,

Professor Krebs:

So he was,

Connor Anderson:

got the count.

Professor Krebs:

Ergo walks up, and he goes, My name is Ergo the Magnificent.

Connor Anderson:

That's the first line he says in the film. That's two words. You're right. Uh,

Professor Krebs:

jest with those who already are his friends. Is that twelve now? Is that what we're saying? I lost count!

Connor Anderson:

correct you as you go?

Professor Krebs:

Keep track of it. Keep track of it.

Connor Anderson:

Okay.

Professor Krebs:

Or merely jest with those, let's see, Or merely jest with those who already are his friends. Yeah, well, those already are his friends. No, ah, okay. Anyway, anyway.

Connor Anderson:

So far, you, I'm astonished that you got both of these lines so accurately.

Professor Krebs:

Okay, so you'll correct me in the end. Um, Oh, it's all very fine. I'm being Polina. Your actions give you weight, my friend. I saw you save the boy from the spear. Um,

Connor Anderson:

the most amazing thing I've ever seen. Alright, alright.

Professor Krebs:

And then Ergo, well, that's what friends do for one another. Indeed. Uh,

Connor Anderson:

Okay.

Professor Krebs:

and then Colwyn says, you've been following us for some time since the beginning. That's three more. Um, I, I hope you're keeping a tally

Connor Anderson:

I am, I'm writing down everything that

Professor Krebs:

All right. Since the beginning. Um, and then, and then Colwyn says, well, then join us. All men need company. And he says, yes. All men. Uh, and then we move on from there. This is where it's going to get harder. Oh my gosh, I've got to know all of Rell's lines. Okay, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright. So, so then, um, so then they are proceeding through, they don't know the Changeling has already taken shape, and and then we get to the point where Rell says ignorance. But no, no, no, no, that hasn't happened yet. That hasn't happened yet. Because he's carrying Titch on his shoulders. But this is after Titch's loss, if I remember correctly, because he's talking about the pup. No, maybe it is. They're talking about wishes, Rell, the Changeling, da da da, da da da da da. Um, and then Okay, there's a point at which Rell says, um, I will stay back. What does he say? I will stay. He says I will stay. And then they proceed forward. And then he sees the, the Seer's body, and then he chases Da da da da da da da da Shhhhhhh! And then And then, um, And then Ynyr says, How did you know? And Rell with downcast eye, because you know that he had a friendship with the Emerald Seer, he goes, Um, I found the Seer's body in the quicksand. Oh, oh, I missed a line. I missed a line where Rell says, Uh, when I heard that the Old One had come down from the mountains, I knew the time had come.

Connor Anderson:

Yes.

Professor Krebs:

I missed that

Connor Anderson:

I'll count it. now though, because you still got it.

Professor Krebs:

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, then they're walking through and they're talking about wishes and then he says ignorance and then And and then And and and let me think about this for a second after he says ignorance. We don't hear Rell again for some time

Connor Anderson:

Chronologically, since you've already said all these

Professor Krebs:

lines Oh, you're right. You're

Connor Anderson:

ignorance, and then I will stay, and then I found the seer's body in the quicksand, and then you're right, there's a big gap of.

Professor Krebs:

There's a big gap after. Okay. All right. All right. So now we got those in the right order. We got those in the right order. Thank you for that little

Connor Anderson:

I am just, first of all, I kind of designed this with the intention of stumping you, and you've already blown through most of them correctly.

Professor Krebs:

And so then, then Ynyr comes back, um, and dies. And then he goes, now we have no way to fight. Uh, how are we going to do this? Uh, you know, how are we going to reach the Iron Desert? It's a thousand leagues away. Firemares. Firemares can travel a thousand leagues in a day. And, uh, and, and then, uh, and then we get to the point where they're trying to capture the fire mares in the valley. And the, the next line that I remember Rell saying is, the gray one is their leader. And,

Connor Anderson:

Yeah.

Professor Krebs:

and then they like wrestle it down and Colwyn says, gentle as a baby. And, uh, That's Colwyn's line. And then, and then they're like saddling up and he's like, And then, and then Colwyn, uh, invites him and then Rell says, I must stay here. And Colwyn goes, is it time? And, um, I don't think, I'm trying to remember if Rell even says anything. Uh, he, he says, he basically tells him, Yeah, I'm thinking about what Rell says. Sorry, sorry, I'm working through it. Hang

Connor Anderson:

It's okay. You're watching the movie in your head. I can see

Professor Krebs:

I really am. I really am. And then he, yeah, he goes, I must, I must remain here. That's what he says, I must remain here. uh, and then Colwyn says, when he realizes what the truth is, Colwyn says, Stay here, Rell, you've done enough. And then Ergo walks up and he goes, Rell, I'll ride with you! And, uh, he looks at him and he goes, I must remain here, my friend. And then Ergo looks at him and says, we had no time, which is exactly what you and I say at the end of every one of our visits.

Connor Anderson:

That's correct.

Professor Krebs:

then we don't hear from Rell again, until he arrives at the Black Fortress, is climbing the mountain, not including grunts and being shot, but he holds the door and he goes, yeah, yeah. He grabs the door, and people start passing in underneath him. I'm trying to remember if he says the word hurry or not. But before he dies, he says, Wait! And then he ends up getting crushed, gurgle, gurgle. And that is the end of Rell.

Connor Anderson:

You only missed, like, four lines.

Professor Krebs:

I missed four lines?!

Connor Anderson:

We're, like, like, okay, so, to be fair, uh, you said, or merely jest with those who already are his friends. The technical line is, or jest with those who already are his friends. So you

Professor Krebs:

okay, so Merely's not there.

Connor Anderson:

Uh, the next one you got sideways, instead of indeed, he says, quite so.

Professor Krebs:

Quite

Connor Anderson:

Uh, since the beginning, when I learned that the Old One had come down, I knew it was the time, the time had come, yadda yadda yadda. You got everything else perfect. Uh, he does hand Titch to Keegan and say, take good care of him.

Professor Krebs:

That's right! And that's where Keegan goes, Isn't he coming with

Connor Anderson:

Yes, correct. And Titch says, no, yep. And then, uh, the next thing he says is the, when he talks to Colwyn, he grabs the horse and says, whoa, steady, I must remain here. And then, each to his fate.

Professor Krebs:

He

Connor Anderson:

the one line that you

Professor Krebs:

to his fate. And that's such a good line. It's one of my favorite lines in the movie. Ynyr says it, Torquil says it to reinforce Ynyr. Colwyn says it to Rell and Rell says it to Colwyn.

Connor Anderson:

And then while Rell dies, his last two lines are, it's no use, it's my time.

Professor Krebs:

Oh, he does say it's no use. I didn't, but it's my time. I don't think I ever caught. It's no use

Connor Anderson:

he squeezes it out right at the end there, uh, for a total of 109 words.

Professor Krebs:

Wow.

Connor Anderson:

And you got a hundred and. Four of them correct, which

Professor Krebs:

I got like, I got like 98. Okay. Okay.

Connor Anderson:

I'll give you one last bonus question which might be kind of a

Professor Krebs:

I like this game. I should have you on the show more often.

Connor Anderson:

I'll think of more questions for next time. Uh bonus question. How many named characters aren't human.

Professor Krebs:

Do we consider the Beast the name?

Connor Anderson:

Yeah. I would consider, in the context of this, the Beast is the character's name.

Professor Krebs:

What constitutes as a named character? Do they have to Oh, they do say the name. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like I was going to ask, what if the character has a name, but they don't say it in the film?

Connor Anderson:

It would be a named character, if the character is named, how many named characters aren't human?

Professor Krebs:

The Crystal Spider is a named character. Rell the Cyclops.

Connor Anderson:

Okay.

Professor Krebs:

The Beast. Uh, do we want to say the Slayers just collectively,

Connor Anderson:

Uh, I,

Professor Krebs:

do we care about the

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, I consider them more of like background army characters. I feel like named characters have like dialogue and an

Professor Krebs:

Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. And, and I'm gonna consider the Changeling the same as the Slayers in that it, it is a Changeling, but it's not like a specific

Connor Anderson:

Sure. Yeah, not Ted the Changeling.

Professor Krebs:

But Vella, the Changeling.

Connor Anderson:

Yes.

Professor Krebs:

Is not human,

Connor Anderson:

Correct.

Professor Krebs:

at least not anymore. Um, let me think through this for a second. I think those are the obvious ones. The Glaive is named and is, I would consider a character and not human.

Connor Anderson:

Sure.

Professor Krebs:

Do you consider the Planet Krull a named character

Connor Anderson:

I, I don't, I think it's a place, not a character.

Professor Krebs:

Okay, we'll go with that. Uh, I'm running through it, running through it. You obviously have something in mind I haven't hit yet.

Connor Anderson:

I do. I have an answer that I'm looking for that you haven't gotten, but you might not get it because it's kind of a

Professor Krebs:

Ooh, ooh, ooh. Uh, now I have to get it, right? Um, look, okay, so Ynyr and the Widow we consider humans. Because they're citizens of Krull, uh natively, and they're humanoid, right? They're, okay, so let me think about this for a second. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Named characters, not human. We don't hear a name for the horse. So I'm not going to count that, um, and I don't remember them naming their weapons, but wait,

Connor Anderson:

Okay, I'll wait.

Professor Krebs:

I, I might be, I might be out of answers, actually.

Connor Anderson:

Well, the answer I was looking for is all of them. This is Krull, not Earth. They're all aliens. None of them are human. Nobody in the movie's a human.

Professor Krebs:

I should have gone with that. I even, as I was describing, I was like, well, they, they're humanoid.

Connor Anderson:

they're not humans.

Professor Krebs:

They're not humans. You're right.

Connor Anderson:

looking for. Uh, You aced every single one of those, I'm going to say. So next time, I'm going to have to make them a whole lot harder.

Professor Krebs:

I am so excited. Next time I'll have to come up with a quiz for

Connor Anderson:

Yeah, please do. Uh, again, my goal was to show how far I have to go to stump you, and I didn't stump you. So I'm going to have to double the efforts for the next round of trivia. Krull trivia.

Professor Krebs:

Connor Anderson, Sir Connor Anderson, unofficial title. Um, it has been a pleasure as it always is to spend time with you. Uh, I don't know how long these, this episode slash episodes is going to be. Um, but we have been recording for almost two and a half hours. And that should tell you

Connor Anderson:

You have a lot of editing ahead of you. I look forward to listening to this in five to eight months.

Professor Krebs:

It's so much editing. There's so much to do. But Connor, it has been an absolute blast and a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you so very much for being here. And you will be on the show again in

Connor Anderson:

I, I hope so. I will always make time to talk to you about anything, but especially Krull. A half hours, but still, we had no time.

Professor Krebs:

We have no time, uh, I will have you know that the only reason this show exists is because you and I went out to sushi one time and it changed everything.

Connor Anderson:

is responsible for a lot of good things in this world, and I'm glad this is. one of them.

Professor Krebs:

And with that, my friends, thank you very much for listening to this show and we will hang out with you again next time.

Connor Anderson:

You heard him! We're now an army!

Thank you so very much for listening to this episode of the Krulltimate Podcast. Now, I would like to hear from you. If you have any questions, curiosities, or comments that you would like to make about this or other episodes, you can send them to thekrulltimatefandom@gmail.com. Until next time I have been your host professor Krebs, and this is the Krulltimate Podcast.

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Joshua "Professor" Krebs

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