S01E10 - Interview with Steven Bayman Part 2

In this heartfelt conversation, Steven discusses his admiration for the cast of the movie Krull, delving into anecdotes about actors like Ken Marshall and John Welsh. The dialogue transitions into reminiscing upon the impact and reception of various 80s films such as Krull, its box office journey, and comparisons to other fantasy films. Steven addresses the topic of US vs. UK film reception, emphasizing the cultural significance of Santa Claus: The Movie in the UK. The episode wraps up with mutual excitement for an upcoming event celebrating the legacy of Krull. Join us for an exploration into beloved cinematic treasures and insightful reflections on the nature of Krull and other beloved films.

Transcript

Professor Krebs: 0:05

If you could wave a magic wand and meet any of the cast today, who would you want to meet next?

Steven Bayman: 0:11

Really good question. Living or dead?

Professor Krebs: 0:14

Let's go with living first.

Steven Bayman: 0:15

Living first. Well, Ken has to be obviously up there. He was, he's the star. Unless you're pretty much just like a Star Trek fan, Krull is the only credit we really received in this country from him. I know he'd done Marco Polo before he did Krull, and it was very successful in the States. Completely off our radar here. I've never tracked it down, I've never seen it, it's never been repeated on, on TV, it's, it's non existent. So, unless you're into Deep Space Nine, Krull is it. So, this is an actor who trained at Juilliard with Christopher Reeve, I believe. Which Lysette let me know two weeks ago. She said, yeah, Chris came to visit the set. And I was like, oh, what? Because he was at Pinewood doing Superman III.

Professor Krebs: 1:10

Oh my gosh, I didn't know that at all.

Steven Bayman: 1:12

She hadn't let that slip before and it was just, we were having, you know, something to drink the evening before we were going to this Sheffield event. So we just having a conversation. And then she said. Yeah, I met Chris. I'm like, huh? Because we were talking about his documentary that his children have just done.

Professor Krebs: 1:30

I'm so excited to see that.

Steven Bayman: 1:33

a friend of mine who was in the films with him has just gone to do the screening in New York and she, she has her own Facebook page and did a video to say, you know, what she thought of the occasion, what she thought of the film and, and it was superb. Pun not intended. It was super. But yeah, it was. I'm looking forward to seeing that myself. And yeah, it was, quite a revelation to me. I sat there just going, Oh, he just popped across to the swamp, did he? Kind of thing. So there's that. So to answer your question, who would I want to meet living? Ken. And no longer alive that I would like to have met would have been John Welsh's The Emerald Seer because just the the gravitas he brought to that part because it can't be easy to say those lines and not think what the hell am I doing, you know? You know, you know, in acting, you have to make the moment believable. Graham is far more detailed in his interview about his process and so on, but he's quite right in what he says. I'm not going to dispute a professional actor but the things that he was saying and to be professional and you're living in that moment and you've got to present it because what goes on in, he did this bit of what's in that frame.

Professor Krebs: 3:02

Yeah.

Steven Bayman: 3:03

selling that. And so he brought such dignity to that part. I would have liked to have met him. Definitely.

Professor Krebs: 3:09

Oh, that would, that's an exceptional choice. I wanted to get ahold of Robbie Coltrane before we lost him. And we, it felt like by the time his real health condition was really known publicly, it was just that fast, you know, and we lost him so

Steven Bayman: 3:25

He was scheduled to do a signing in London. I was going to go to that because I had my Rhun picture ready because I've seen him. I've got his autograph in I bought it at a charity auction on a GoldenEye Zukovsky autograph. So I've got that in my Bond collection. But I wanted to get Rhun, because I've never seen it on anything, anywhere, at any time. So I wanted to get that one off piece that was truly special. And then he was taken ill, and he had to cancel. And he was never able to reschedule. And it's very sad and he brought a lot of joy to a lot of people through his work. I mean, most people instantly want to say Hagrid Harry Potter, but actually he was well known to UK audiences long before Potter came along. He was truly remarkable. We had a TV detective show called Cracker. When he was involved in and he was more of a a psychologist. So he worked with the police to solve these crimes and it was groundbreaking television. And he was just magnificent in it. And just the body of work that he, he demonstrated. I mean, you know, from doing nuns on the run. To being Bond films, it's just such a diverse range and then to top it off as with, we just lost a Maggie Smith, you know, to then have the legacy for generations of children and generations to come. And the wonderful thing that Robbie said I don't know if you saw it, was the Harry Potter 20th anniversary reunion. And he says to camera, it's, you know, I won't be here, but Hagrid will, you know, so he said something along those lines, and it was really touching, and so it came to pass.

Professor Krebs: 5:22

I do remember that in the documentary. I remember getting very choked up about that. And,

Steven Bayman: 5:26

It was, yes.

Professor Krebs: 5:27

yeah, it was, it, it definitely hit me right in the heart because I do have a special place in my heart for Hagrid and for Rhun, you know he's, I, I often tout on the show that it's well known that Princess Lyssa was voiced over by American actress Lindsay Crouse, but it is also commonly stated that Michael Elphick voiced Rune, and that's false.

Steven Bayman: 5:54

And I can, I watched your episode again. Last night to prepare for this in case these topics came up. I can also add to that because Lysette worked with Michael Elphick on a really popular sitcom here in the UK in the 1980s called Three Up, Two Down. And Michael Elphick was the lead character, and she, Lysette, was the wife of The scenario was basically Lysette and her husband lived upstairs with their newborn baby. Lysette's mother, which was played by Angela Thorne, who worked with Penelope Keith on To The Manor Born. Great sitcom star and so on played her mother. And Michael Elphick as Lysette's husband. As the father in law, he moves in. So, snooty mother in law, rough as anything father in law kind of thing. They clash, and that's what the sitcom was all about. And it ran for like five years, and it was right up there in the ratings. Well, I said to Lysette, Michael is often credited for the voice, and she said, didn't happen. Michael would have said, Well, it's confirmed,

Professor Krebs: 7:06

Absolutely.

Steven Bayman: 7:07

as Graham knows, he was on set and has said in his interview, so, hi Graham, shout out. So, yeah, I can confirm it from another source, Robbie was not dubbed.

Professor Krebs: 7:19

True story. So kind of like circling back just a minute, there's a question that I like to ask all my guests and I try to open with it. And I realized I was so excited to talk about these other topics. I kind of jumped over it. So I'm going to kind of reel things back in for a second and ask you this question. Do you remember the first time that you saw Krull?

Steven Bayman: 7:41

I must have seen it around its original release because I just always knew of it. When I was a small child, I was, I guess, kind of part of a film club. My mum used to drop me off at our local movie house. theatre cinema. In those days you could do that. They would, you'd be under the watch of the ashes and, you know, they'd give you your ice cream and you'd sit there, you'd watch the film. So I remember watching things like The Black Cauldron and Return to Oz and Transformers and Krull must have been one of them because I, whenever I would see it then listed in the TV listings. I knew what it was, so I must have seen it on its original release, for sure.

Professor Krebs: 8:26

I, that honestly surprises me only because I'm a hundred percent certain. I'm older than you, but Also, I'm really like almost giddy to hear that you had that opportunity to be part of like a cinema club where you got to see these, what is now considered nostalgic and quintessential class, you know uh, eighties genre films. Because if I had had that opportunity as a kid, oh my gosh, I

Steven Bayman: 8:51

You are, you are

Professor Krebs: 8:52

would have begged my

Steven Bayman: 8:53

you are only a year older than me, so that's probably why your memory is so Sharper but no, I definitely remember because I remember the Glaive and the Beast with red eyes and the six fingers

Professor Krebs: 9:05

Oh, yeah,

Steven Bayman: 9:06

and the walls closing in on Lyssa as she's running in the white gown and yeah, so my memories of it. I just knew it. I was very aware of this imagery. So that's how I'm adamant. I've seen it on its original release. Because I was, you know, it was the 80s, it was a different time, it was a safer time as well. You couldn't just leave the children under the eye of the, you know, the ushers anymore. Because they don't really have them. But there, then, you did. And, you know, that was the era of Superman III, and Return of the Jedi, and E. T. I remember seeing E. T. and that was 82. So, yeah. I certainly have this imagery ingrained in my mind.

Professor Krebs: 9:52

I've talked multiple times on, on this particular podcast about how Krull performed in the U S and I know that Graham gave me a little bit more insight as to what it looked like in the UK. Do you remember what, it was like in the UK for Krull? I realized you were very young then, but you, you have the perspective of hindsight now. How did Krull perform in the UK?

Steven Bayman: 10:12

So I don't have, I have an awareness now. I wouldn't have understood sort of the publicity and so on at the time. But my understanding because when a film fails in America or doesn't, let's not say fails because that's giving the wrong impression. When a film doesn't achieve the level of success they're hoping for. It's written off as flop, purely based on US box office, and it's completely ignoring international box office. And that, to me, infuriates me because many films that are deemed a flop have actually been very successful. But people just go to, like, Box Office Mojo and think that speaks for its history. And it's not right. The film was released by Columbia at the wrong time in the US. It was the summer of 83. It was dealing with Octopussy, Superman 3, Jaws 3. Never Say Never Again came out in the, you call it fall, don't you? Yeah, in the fall, in autumn so you, so that's two Bond films. Plus all these others, and then what could compete with the death of Darth Vader? Sorry, you know, it was the wrong, it was the wrong window to release it in, in the US. We get our films, which are darker in tone, released Christmastime. So, for example, Jaws, Jaws 2, Jaws 3, were all released around Christmas. Because they're, you know, they're not lighthearted summer films, whereas the States, you've had them as the summer releases. We got them at Christmas time of 75, 78, 83. Krull came out winter 83. And from my own reading up on it and conversations I've had with those involved, it was much better received, but it just, Seems to be overshadowed, it failed in America, it's a flop. But, films actually, continue to grow, and they still continue to make money. And, films that are darker in their tone, need to be winter releases. And, that's why, for example, Conversation Fairuza Balk for Return to Oz, films You could say Return to Oz in the States and people go, who, what? You can say it over here and everybody's like, Return to Oz. Princess Mambi, she can change her heads and tick tock. And yeah.

Professor Krebs: 12:53

I love Return to Oz.

Steven Bayman: 12:55

The tone has got to match the season. And that's also sort of prevalent today because the Scream movies, they're gearing up to start shooting Scream 7. They've already announced, it's going to be released. around February time, but because it's our winter, films of that tone, not the family films, but the ones that are a bit, got a bit of an edge to them, do better at that time of year.

Professor Krebs: 13:23

Hmm. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. In the US, the culture around that is sort of the big blockbuster action films or the big spectacle pieces. And it doesn't, we don't pay as much attention to tone per se as we do about the bombasticity and, and, and, you know, scope. And yet, and yet all the Lord of the Rings films were released in November. All of the you know, all most horror films do best between September and November. And so there is a certain amount of, of. You know, sort of like it's not a hard, fast rule where we're forced to do that. But our summertime window, when people are out of, you know, when the kids are out of school and people are taking vacations and, you know, they're kind of starting to put their feet up and take it a little bit more easy. That's when the whole summer months of like June to about mid August, that's when the big heavy hitter films come out and I think that's probably what they were trying to do with Krull and it just, to your point, I mean, it was, it was an unwinnable fight in every respect possible.

Steven Bayman: 14:32

because they cite Jaws as being the first summer blockbuster. But you look at it as you, as I asked you to do recently, and it's almost, it's like an adventure story. The three guys go out on the boat, and they try to hunt the killer shark. But the music is almost like a pirate score. Apart from obviously the traditional, you know, derner, derner, okay. But you listen to when they're putting the barrels on and they're going after the shark, and it all seems jolly and upbeat. And it's great. that's because of its tone. If it was all death and destruction and mayhem and it's, it's a darker feeling, so therefore a darker tone, therefore a darker part of the year. But summer blockbusters, it, it really, I think it's the summer of 89 that it was really just Let's churn them out, one after the other. And it was Back to the Future 2, and Star Trek 5, and Batman, and just, you know. But then, look at that. Batman. The Tim Burton film, it is very dark. But we got it after you guys did, as I understand, if I have read the information correctly. So you see, our marketing over here is, this isn't all light jolly, because Krull, you've got people being drowned in quicksand and Cyclops being squashed and you've got to read your demographic, you've got to read your audience and I think that's where Columbia, forgive me, Frank Price and his regime and so on, but I think that's where they got it wrong, they miscalculated. It should have been held back and it would have done better.

Professor Krebs: 16:17

I think you're absolutely right. Heck, even if they had just pushed it, I realized that they were up against time and budget and, you know, they were filming in 82. It was a six month window. They were already going over budget. But I think if they had abstained until maybe 84, It's possible they could have done better, but it's a hard thing to gauge because you know, you also have like a shift in interest in genre, you know, that, that occurs as well, but most certainly, and maybe it's easy to say this in retrospect, but most certainly the summer of 83 on the heels of return of the Jedi going into all the other films that you listed. There's, there was no spot on that calendar, especially in the U. S. where it was a good idea to drop that film.

Steven Bayman: 17:06

Yeah, they were all tentpole franchises. It was Star Wars, it was James Bond, it was Superman, it was Jaws. It was all these things, just, you know, there are many more films that we could reel out. But then you've just said, hold it back to 84, but the Columbia film for 84 was Ghostbusters. And then look at the tone of that. Similar budget, 30 million. But they had it infused with humor. Humor, which is subtle that the children don't get it, but the adults do. But then you, you look at other releases, 84. So then you've got Beverly Hills Cop, again, that was kind of gritty because you look at it now and go, how did they get away with some of those lines? It's a different time. And then, of course. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. And again, a dark tone film that people look at it, and it's very divisive. You either love it or you hate it. I personally love it. It's my favorite. It's the one I always look forward to whenever I see a marathon, or I'm getting to a marathon of my own, because I still have the physical media. But you look at the tone. Again, it was death, destruction, mayhem. It's And again, it's probably because it's a lot more popular in the UK than in the US. We just have different tastes. I mean, for example, a film that is absolutely beloved here, and everyone goes, huh, what? In the States, Santa Claus, the movie, absolutely,

Professor Krebs: 18:47

thank you. They, I, I

Steven Bayman: 18:50

absolutely sank without trace in the United States. Yet here, it's a revered classic. And it was done by the Sulkines who did the Musketeers movies, who did the Superman films. Apart from Superman 4, but we don't talk about that. Supergirl. And it's a beloved classic. It's, there's not a year, I think I can count on one hand, that And I think it was last year that it didn't play on Christmas TV. That's because it had been re released in the cinemas and then had the 4k release. So that's why it didn't play on TV on Christmas day. It was because it was in on the big screen again. For an anniversary and Carrie who played Cornelia, Corn, Corny is in the Facebook group of Santa Claus, the movie that I'm in, and she and I were discussing again the film. She was like, it just didn't do well in the States because it was like, it's humor, it's marketing, it doesn't capture what the Americans think about Christmas. But it does for the Brits. And again, you know, it's a, as I say, it's a beloved classic here. It's a cult film here. It's on Christmas every year. Without fail. But the Americans don't know. And John Lithgow is on record as saying, you put me in a room with a Brit, you know? It's like, they'll mention Santa Claus in a movie. And he just doesn't, he just doesn't get it. It's the corniest, cheesiest thing he ever did. But, you know, you put him in a, you know, he crosses paths with a Brit and that's what they'll talk about. I'm quite right too.

Professor Krebs: 20:28

And quite right too. I, I, remember, I remember it coming out in theaters in the States. I remember really wanting to see it, and I'm pretty certain I, I'm pretty certain that I went and saw in theaters with my family. I'm a little iffy on that one. I'm gonna have to verify with my siblings, but I'm pretty certain we did, but. When I was younger, I, I would get it on VHS. I would rent it. I would watch it, but I have not actually watched the film in at least 30 years. And I

Steven Bayman: 21:01

saw my own reaction on the screen. I was like, that look of horror off my face very quickly. It was just, yeah. Right there.

Professor Krebs: 21:09

that's absolutely fair. That's fair. I, I just this last Christmas, my, my wife is a huge Christmas movie fan. And of course we've got kids that are you know, 10 and 13 now, but last year they were, they were nine and 12 and. I, I brought it up. I was like, Oh, you know what Christmas movie we've never watched together? And I said, Santa Claus! And, of course, I can't blame my kids. They're of a different generation. But my wife looks at me and she goes, What do you mean, Santa Claus, you mean like Tim Allen and stuff? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, not The Santa Clause, Santa Claus, the movie. And she was like, what are you talking about? And I go and I pull it up on Amazon prime and she looks at, she goes, I have never seen this before. I showed them the trailer and she was almost mortified and I'm just like, no, no, no, no, it's a good movie. You need to see this movie. No one would watch it with me. And I was just like, what am I, what am I doing wrong?

Steven Bayman: 22:07

Because when I was, it's in a different box I have in my collection of props and so on, I actually have, it was, it was, clearly it was one of the toys that they had made for the film, and it has fallen apart over the years, so somebody sold off the pieces, but it's actually stamped, Elf Made. And I've got it, yeah, and I've got it, and I thought it was in this box, and it's actually not, so I'll have to find it at some point off this interview and show it to you, but it actually has the stamp, Elf Made, on it.

Professor Krebs: 22:46

Yeah, you need to send me a picture of that, please.

Steven Bayman: 22:48

so

Professor Krebs: 22:48

I, yes, absolutely. I, I think this year I'm going to try again to get them to watch it because I think it's something they've got to see at least once, even if, even if their perspective is that it's some weird fever dream. I don't care. They need to see it. And and, and, and I actually, I bought it just the streaming version from Amazon in the hopes that they would watch it with me. And then just nobody ever pulled the trigger. In, in the States, the movie that plays You know, at almost ad nauseum around Christmas time, especially usually from Christmas Eve through Christmas day or something to that effect is the movie, A Christmas Story and that'll get like a 24 hour back to back run. And I, it took me forever to bring myself to watch it. And then I watched, I think it was in the late 90s, early 2000s, and I just fell in love with it instantly. And so that's like, that film became sort of the for lack of a better term, traditional American Christmas movie, because it's just, it's just chock full of Americana. Right. But yeah, that's, that's our Santa Claus, the movie.

Steven Bayman: 23:57

the trailer for Santa Claus the movie doesn't do it any favours, that's, that's the problem, because people will look at a trailer, You've got 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 2 minutes to make this impression, this is what we're selling. If the marketing campaign is not right, if they don't pitch the trailer right, People will misread and then we'll just go yes or no and the trouble is Santa Claus the Movie is a beloved classic in the UK but the trailer makes it look so commercialized that it's all based on McDonald's and this homeless child Joe, you know, and it completely loses the fact that it actually starts traditional that Mr and Mrs Claus get lost in the blizzard, the elves come to rescue them and The glorious ceremony of when he becomes, you will be known as Santa Claus. By Burgess Meredith, who, you know, is probably best known for the Rocky films as Mickey the trainer, you know, it's just, and the, the, the dignity that he brought to that part and Henry Mancini's beautiful music. And then to top off with the, the, the, the nostalgia, the cheesy factor of what Christmas is to many people, removing the religious element. Sheena Easton singing, it's Christmas, it's just, it covers it all. So people who, again, like Krull, haven't discovered it can have their eyes opened when they actually do discover it. It's one of those things, it's not just like, you don't watch something and you're ambivalent about it. You either, you watch it and you love it, or you watch it and you hate it. And I looked on IMDb last night. To prepare, because I didn't know what you were going to ask me. You look at Krull, and there's something like 250 reviews about the film on there. And you're hard pressed to find any that fall below five. They're all hovering around six, seven, eight out of 10. And many of them saying, what a surprise. Didn't expect this. This is great. Product of its era. It's a genre, you know, it's champion. All these things. People always saying, well, I didn't know that. Yeah.

Professor Krebs: 26:30

Absolutely. and and, and just like, as you were talking about, The impact of the trailer for the Santa Claus, the movie it sounded like you were describing Krull to me in a lot of ways, because the trailer for Krull, especially the U S trailer for Krull, is just abysmal. It's, it's one of the most insulting pieces of slap dash editing work I've ever seen. It's it's, it does not as. To use your expression, it doesn't do Krull any favors, but actually it does Krull a massive disservice. And I, I think the Santa Claus the movie had a very similar experience with its trailer because the trailer does make it feel a little bit like a fever dream. And the trailer for Krull makes it look like it was a Saturday afternoon you know, matinee on television. type of movie. And it's, it is many times over a grander spectacle and a greater fantasy than all of that with incredibly talented cast members and a marvelous, rich mythos with gorgeous music by James Horner. And, and we can go down the line Krull very much. Has exactly, you know, incredibly similar qualities to Santa Claus, the movie. So maybe, maybe those listening to this podcast will give both Krull and Santa Claus, the movie a try and in a, in a modern context and see what the gems are, you

Steven Bayman: 27:52

Yeah. I mean, I, I think I understand what you're saying with like the, the Krull track. I'm Whether it's one and the same on the DVD and Blu ray, or if there's different trailers for different markets. But if I've seen the one that you're referring to, it's almost as if it's like, The Prince! The Damsel in Distress! The Cyclops! The Rebels! The, you know, and it was kind of like, And here's the beast in the corner! You know, it's just like, it, no. It's You look at the film and you can see it's out. People say, Oh, it's a ripoff of Star Wars. Excuse me. I don't really recall spaceships. There's the, you know, the fortress through space, but I, you know, I don't see androids. I don't see Darth Vader and storm troopers, or, you know, trying to bullseye womp rats back home in a kind of thing. I, it's influences very much are King Arthur. Robin Hood and his Merry Men, almost, again, Excalibur, because the Lady of the Lake had the sword. Whereas this time, it's the Glaive, it's very King Arthur, medieval sort of influences, which are part of our mythology in this country. So, I'm, I'm, I'm stunned when people say it's a rip off of Star Wars, I'm like, Well, the story of a princess in distress being rescued by heroes, it was a bit more before 1977, I have to say, it's, you know.

Professor Krebs: 29:33

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The whole, you know, Campbell's journey hero's journey, you know, that sort of thing. And, and trying to be fair to its critics. I, I can see where people can draw parallels but to your point, I, if we work, if we took a breath, we could draw parallels between Star Wars and many Grecian plays. Some of Shakespeare's works you could, you could, you could draw parallels between Star Wars and the Bible if you do it right. And it's, it's not that the parallels. Automagically make it unoriginal, especially when you consider that the things that we can compare Star Wars to happened centuries or millennia prior to George Lucas's birth. It's not enough to simply draw the parallel. You have to draw on, or you have to indicate unoriginality. And if there's anything that Krull offers to audiences in spades, it's true originality in its day. We've seen things since then that might be true. We might say, Oh, well, I've kind of seen something like that before. Yeah, you saw it 10 years later, you saw it 20 years after the release of Krull, but when Krull hit the screen, it did a number of things that were unique, even when it did those things subtly and silently so that the audience would actually have to pay attention to really garner the value. And That's where I think maybe that informs my fandom a bit, the fact that I am the age that I am, and so I got to see sort of the, the evolution of these things over time, but even so, in a modern setting, you can take Krull, put it on the television, and it's still going to be a standout compared to modern fare. And I think that that's where a lot of people because they see the, maybe they see the trailer or maybe they see more scathing reviews from, from older quote unquote professional sources and they simply discount it as 80s camp the number one, the two things I hear about Krull the most. It's a Star Wars ripoff and it's 80s camp, but. I think it is far more than that and people, it requires the audience to look with an analytical eye instead of a passive. I just want to eat popcorn mentality.

Steven Bayman: 31:55

Yes, I mean, I don't see the Star Wars analogy at all. I'm not just saying that to enhance praise on Krull, I'm genuinely searching in my mind. how it could be compared and I, I'm struggling to come up with an answer. I, I just can't. And I can understand 80s influences, but they're not exactly running around with headbands like Travolta in Staying Alive, which was also 1980s. So I, it it's that genre of fantasy films. So we are going Dragon Slayer in 81, dark Crystal 82, Krull 83. We could then go through Labyrinth, which is what, 87

Professor Krebs: 32:45

I'll verify really quick, but I think it's actually earlier than 87.

Steven Bayman: 32:48

maybe. Willow 88. You look at all of those films and there's a certain style and elegance to them. I don't call that camp. Camp is a type of overplayed performance for shock value, for for an effect, even in humour, that it's kind of overplayed to the extreme. I look at Krull and I actually think, no, it's, it's underplayed. Because you are emotionally invested in these characters. You'd be hard pushed to find anyone that doesn't go, Did Rel really need to die? You know, he's, you know, he What's Titch's line? If he doesn't stay where he is, he would bring great pain upon himself.

Professor Krebs: 33:40

Yes,

Steven Bayman: 33:41

and he discards that, and he comes riding along, gets them into the fortress. Yes, it's plot construction. Well, how else would they have got into the fortress if they didn't have a bulletproof hero in front of them? Get that. But at the same point, the sacrifice that he's making shows that actually, these characters are well written. And that they are bonded by this experience. And even the most grumpiest, Rune, I was wrong, the journey was worthwhile, finish it. I just think it actually strikes a much more resonance with the audience than I ever got from Willow. And yet people go, Willow's great, Willow's this, Willow's that. I'm going, for me Gavin O'Hurley. He, he's Val Kilmer's friend in it. I best know him as Brad from Superman three. But when he dies I don't kind of feel the pangs It's just, okay, he died next. I'm much more invested in queen bath mortar pigs. You're all pigs. You know, it's, she had the best parts and I'm actually much more drawn to her scenes. and Sorcerer, Joanne Wally, than I ever was with Val Kilmer and Warwick Davis. Sorry, that's just me. You know, it doesn't have anything. When I'm literally watching Krull and Rel gets squashed, you have throttled to death and then poor Titch is going, I'm on my own now. It's like, we're your family. You know, it's, there are consequences to these actions. And I think it's actually, having looked at the script on the internet, trying to work out, well, what made the cut, what didn't make the cut, I actually think It's, it's, it's really well constructed and I don't buy into the camp 80s and so on. It actually takes a lot of what's identifiable in films such as Excalibur or Merlin or things of that nature and churns them all up and produces something fresh.

Professor Krebs: 35:58

Very well said, and I a million percent agree with you. Uh, We are coming to the end of our time together, and I have genuinely enjoyed this conversation. You can automatically assume that I'm going to leverage the value of our friendship to do this again in the not too distant future.

Steven Bayman: 36:15

Same time next week? Yes.

Professor Krebs: 36:18

week. I am extremely excited to meet you in person, to meet Graham, to meet Belinda, to see Lysette again would be just a gift I never conjured in my mind would be possible. And to see this on the big screen for only the third time in my life would would just be a gift to this lifelong fan. So thank you for what you did to make this happen. Thank you to Misty Moon and thank you to Graham, Lysette and Belinda and anyone else who chooses to attend for bringing dreams come true to the fans who adore this film and who have stuck by it for the last 40 years. So thank you very much for what you're doing, Steve, and I very much appreciate you.

Steven Bayman: 37:01

That's okay. It's it's it's a film that people need to be kinder about. And I just had to have the good fortune to have met and befriended some of the cast, and then we're just trying to pull something together to try and give back to the audience.

Professor Krebs: 37:17

Steven, thank you so very much for taking time out of your schedule to hang out with us. It has been a true pleasure for me to actually get to talk to you in this format for the first time ever. And I very, very much look forward to meeting you in person, my friend.

Steven Bayman: 37:31

Absolutely. My first podcast. How did I do?

Professor Krebs: 37:34

Exceptional. Thank you very much. We'll be talking to everybody else soon.

Steven Bayman: 37:38

All right. See ya.

37:40

Thank you so very much for listening to this episode of the Krulltimate Podcast. Now, I would like to hear from you. If you have any questions, curiosities, or comments that you would like to make about this or other episodes, you can send them to thekrulltimatefandom@gmail.com. Until next time I have been your host Professor Krebs, and this is the Krulltimate Podcast.