BritCham Vietnam: All Things Business

All Things Education : The Story Behind the Education Working Group

• Niall Mackay

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Exploring British Education in Vietnam with Chris Jeffrey

In this episode of the BritCham Vietnam podcast, host Matt Ryland welcomes Chris Jeffrey, Pro Vice Chancellor for International Strategy & Partnerships at British University Vietnam. They delve into the role of the BritCham Education Working Group, British education's growth and impact in Vietnam, and opportunities within the educational sector. Chris shares his journey to Vietnam and insights on the importance of quality education, international collaboration, and the development of professional and lifelong learning initiatives in the country. The discussion highlights the sector's dynamics, challenges, and potential for future growth.


00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:45 Chris Jeffrey's Journey to Vietnam

01:26 Growth and Development of BUV

04:15 British Education in Vietnam

10:12 The Role of the BritCham Education Working Group

11:48 Challenges and Opportunities in Education

16:47 Member Involvement and Initiatives

23:59 Conclusion and Wrap-Up

For more information about the Britcham Chamber of Commerce Vietnam please visit www.britchamvn.com

Matt:

Hello, and welcome back to the BritJam Vietnam podcast. I'm Matt Ryland, executive director of the chamber. And today we're going to delve into all things education. It's a great pleasure and honor to have our guest this morning. the pro vice chancellor for international strategy and engagement for British university, Vietnam, Chris Jeffrey. Good morning, Chris.

Chris:

Good morning to you from Hanoi.

Matt:

Thank you for joining us. And in particular today, we're going to talk about the Britcham Education Working Group. Chris is also a board member, a longstanding board member of Britcham and is chair for the Education Working Group. But I thought before we dive into the kind of specifics and the detail of the Working Group and education, maybe a good idea for the audience to get a little bit of context about you, Chris, and why you're talking about education.

Chris:

Well thanks Matt. And it's a pleasure to be here. I arrived in Vietnam 14 years ago, virtually to the day. and I arrived from City University in London where I was faculty and ran programs. And I came to Vietnam because I saw a great opportunity. I saw a country which was developing. That was challenging, but open to development and BUV started, above a fish and chip shop really 14 years ago in the middle of Hanoi with 20 very scared looking Vietnamese, young men and women who were starting a journey on foundation in English. very much. And within that 14 year period, we've grown to two and a half thousand, built a campus, January next year, the campus is going to double in size. So that's why I joined BUV at the very beginning, was to be part of that journey in a country that really values education, that is looking outward to the world and trying to develop its education system. to enable, everyone, no matter the skillset, or level of education to benefit from it. So that's why I came and that's why BUV is here. That's from the higher education sector. in in terms of me personally, Vietnam is a land of opportunity. Where else in the world would somebody have entrusted me to contribute to a massive investment? Someone, somewhere where I can contribute not only to BUV and British education here in Vietnam, but also to Vietnam itself. And so it's been a great challenge, a great opportunity. And, when I left London, people said, why, why are you doing this? You work in a top university, you're based in London. Okay. What, why leave to go to Vietnam? Those same skeptical people, now say it's the best thing I ever did in my life because to be able to contribute, to be able to achieve, to be able to change and grow. It's a great privilege.

Matt:

It certainly is. And, you touched on, there's an awful lot developing. there's challenges as well, but there are a huge amount of opportunities. Obviously your, specific role at BUV is from a higher education perspective, but obviously BritCham, looks at education, and, in every, in every facet and every area. before I say, before we delve deeper into kind of the education workgroup, can you give us maybe a, from your perspective, where you see education in Vietnam, and, maybe some things that have been happening?

Chris:

Well, first of all, higher education and further education, the British involvement in Vietnam is really the baby of education, British education in Vietnam. So BUV has been around for 14 years. That has been higher education links the full way, but education in the broadest terms, in terms of professional certification in terms of TVET, so vocational education, and in terms of English language and A levels, O levels, IB. All those different aspects have been here longer. And what I find amazing about British education in Vietnam is literally you could start your education journey in the British system and finish with a PhD and theoretically not leave the country. And the quality of that education is amazing. is fantastic. So students, whether they're studying IELTS, whether they're studying English, A levels, all degrees, go on and achieve amazing scores. Some of the best grades in the world. And that gives them the opportunity to work here in their home country, but also globally as well. Because I think Vietnam fully appreciates that British education. British education gives people the skill sets that are needed to survive and prosper, as well as the ability to communicate with people across the world, but also at different levels. So I think in, in, in that sense, the British education system here in Vietnam has been proven to succeed and proven as a good tool for people to, invest in and then also benefit from. From a parental standpoint, family is key here in Vietnam. And when I first arrived, there were limited opportunities at university, but also at high school. to at the high school age to get that international, that truly international education, because it's not just a piece of paper. It's about that broader, the holistic approach. It was very limited. So parents would have to, if they wanted it, would have to send their son or daughter abroad, to get it. And now why leave your family in your home to get an education overseas? which is same same as you can get here in Vietnam. You stay close to the family. You stay close to, the fast developing, business environment, as well as cultural environment. And then you can use those resources to invest in other things, whether it's PhDs, Masters, career development, starting your own business, whatever, or a house. So you've got much more opportunity now. And that's where I see, the British education system really contributing. Looking at the level of English, I remember when I first Arrived here, people would run up to me and just want to practice any words of English, just because I'm a tall, gray haired, grumpy old white man. And, so they would, they would, want to practice. Now I have students and we have students. who achieved seven, eight IELTS, even nine IELTS. And they're nine years old. I'm sorry, they're 19 years old, 18 years old. And that is an amazing development. Within that period of time, the use of English, has just snowballed and the Vietnamese government have recently, the Politburo this week have said that they want English to be the second language. taught in schools. So the opportunity for British education, whether it's language TVET, higher education, professional, it's amazing. and so people need to take advantage of it, in terms of, developing their businesses here, but also realize that it's not a simple process. It's not easy. It is hard. It is complicated. But my goodness me, it is worth it, to be able to be involved in the development of young people and, giving them the opportunity to fulfill whatever they want to achieve, but also what they're, to support their family, friends, everything like that, as well as the country. It's amazing. I'm a lucky man.

Matt:

Absolutely. And I think, it's an amazing industry. and I think also actually in Vietnam, something that struck me, since I arrived and particularly since I've been doing this, role is, the appetite to learn. and that doesn't stop when students leave school or they leave university, it carries on into their professional careers and professional development, is another aspect of, education and something that BritCham, covers and looks at. thank you for putting some context to yourself and to education in Vietnam. So let's, talk a little bit about the education working group. Education is a key sector for BritJam. and I think it's almost a year ago, I believe that the education working group was set up. please, I will let you describe the education working group looking at, who's involved, who can be involved, what the objectives are, are there, key topics to be covered? Are there key sectors within education? Because obviously, as you've alluded to, education is a a vast sector, and there are many and many facets, within each sector. So what's the energy working group there to do?

Chris:

it's the Education Working Group, not the Energy Working Group, Mr. Matzer.

Matt:

let me go back and just say that again. So what's the education working group there to fulfill, there to do?

Chris:

first of all, just to clarify, we launched the Education Working Group before COVID, but obviously when COVID happened, everyone was dealing with the issues that face us as businesses and educational establishments and so forth. we relaunched it just over a year ago. so what does the education working group do? We do two things. One is we really support members as an opportunity to share because sometimes it can feel a very lonely place. you're trying to do this, you have challenges, and sometimes you think it's all about you, and the reality it's broader. So one of the big issues, not just across education, across a lot of sectors, is work permits, and things like that. So educationalists, there is the work permit issue, as well as the Ministry of Education or Ministry of labor, depending on the sector. So it's about helping people understand that. It's about being a common voice to get clarity and to support situations where organizations can need support or need guidance. I think the other one is that As educational establishments, we operate independently, but the reality is there's more that joins us than separates us. So we give an opportunity for people to come together and hopefully Vietnam, as well as other industries, realize how big education is here in Vietnam. So if you look at the K 12 sector, again, when I arrived, there were probably two private schools in Hanoi, really private schools. Now there are four, five, six, it's growing every year, but also the blended private schools. So who learned the Vietnamese. curriculum, as well as an international element, A Levels, IGCSE, is just snowballing. It's amazing how fast that sector is growing. And I think that kind of, sums up Vietnam. Very proud of Vietnam, want and keen to learn about Vietnam and to be part of the Vietnamese system, but also keen to have that international passport of education, that international, qualification. so that's what kind of we're here about. We're here to advise, we're here to learn, we're here to lobby, we're here to promote, and we're here to promote. and we're here to generally support British education initiatives here in country. We're not driven by any specific agenda or elements, but there are themes which we're keen on. One is, as I say, actually promoting. British education here. That it is a very well respected sector. It is a sector that has a lot of opportunity to contribute to Vietnam's future, but also to ensure that everyone is fully aware that a British education is not just a piece of paper. It's the broader aspect. So supporting them in developing, students, soft skills, their emotional, development, as well as making sure that best practice in student care, mental wellbeing, all those aspects is shared as well, because those are relatively hard to implement here. in Vietnam. in terms of looking at other aspects, Vietnam is fast developing, so there is a growing need for not only people to have a degree, but to have professional qualifications that are globally acceptable, to enable people, to work for international organizations here in Vietnam, but also to take opportunities to move aboard. Learn some more, contribute to companies and then come back. And that area is an area where I think there's a lot of opportunity still. Vietnam sees itself developing as a regional and an international hub of business, but also adding value. So that adding value part means investment coming in, but also setting up things like financial centers and so forth. So there's a great need for international, professional certification qualifications as well. And it relates back to your, comment about, education isn't just a degree, it's lifelong learning. And that here where people are constantly keen to improve themselves. Because by doing that, they improve their family's situation, but also, as I say, contribute to being there. so those are the kind of areas we look at, but we're member driven. So who can join? anyone who's connected with education can join. we have members such as BUV, we have schools, we have teachers. fully international schools. We have Vietnamese schools that teach international curriculum. We have curriculum developers. We have English language centers. we have TVET. vocational education, qualifications, professional education, professional development. So it's a real mixture. of people that cover every aspect of education here in Vietnam. Textbooks, technology, all those aspects. If you look at Vietnam, big picture, 100 million, GDP of over 6 percent growth, a growing middle class who, really focuses on education and investing in education. It really shows the opportunity here and the need for people to, support Vietnam's development in that way.

Matt:

Yeah, I think, I think it's interesting from the time I've been here, I think education has probably been, The busiest sector, in the last two or three years. And I think that's reflected by you just, talked about it just then about the growing middle class when families have more disposable income, one of the first thing that get looked to be spent on is is education and, Vietnam is very forward looking with regards to that and they want to educate their children as best they can. So it's, yes, it's certainly been a very busy sector. Another point I'd just like to pick up on is that, yes, the group is member led. and we have a huge diverse of members. So that, there can be and will be many, many different initiatives and projects. I just wanted to, push this to the next level with regards to, you've talked about the members, you've talked about education as a whole. Can you give me an example of, something that, you know, the, an initiative that the education working group has done, or, how do you execute, some of the initiatives to, talk to the wider audience as well?

Chris:

Well, Bridgham itself is a member of the Vietnam Business Forum, so we're a consortium member, and that gives us the opportunity. as a chamber and the education working group to feed into that, to be able to talk to ministries, to be able to talk to government about issues in education. It's also about creating An environment where we can, talk to government as a chamber as well, independently. And that can be local government, but also, central government as well. So we, we do initiatives like that. but also things like, this year we launched the education survey. So one of the things about education is getting knowledge. understanding what's happening in Vietnam. I like to think I understand a fair bit, but I'm not the guru of education here in Vietnam and definitely not, the guru of K 12, for example, or English language. So we introduced alongside the Embassy and Consulate a national survey this year to actually start off this learning to enable our members to understand the context that they're operating in, to give them insight into what parents, feel, what parents, are after, as well as, highlighting any potential issues. And that was across really from, K 12 to, degree, graduation. And that highlighted a number of areas of opportunity, but also areas that everyone should be aware. So I mentioned earlier about this kind of hybrid K 12 situation where people are keen to have Vietnamese as well as international qualifications. And that showed really how important that is and what an area of growth that will be. But also one of the other interesting things that was highlighted was, Vietnamese parents spend quite a long time thinking about their son or daughter's future. So decision making is not done overnight. I remember when I went to university many years ago, and, my parents guided me. The reality is, it was up to me. and I made my decision in about 48 hours. whereas Vietnamese parents will spend years planning, but also saving up and making sure the resources are there and so forth. So it's a different environment, but it's, it's a fast moving, but a slow moving environment as well. So people have to understand that. And the survey really puts that in context and puts numbers. But it's not just a one off, our intention is to do it annually, to show how Vietnam is moving, to show and give insights into potential opportunities, but also if we, we as a sector need to change, need to adapt, need to change direction. So as a tool to inform decision making, we believe that's a great initiative as well as in helping inform the embassy and consulate here, in their conversations with government as well. One of the other key aspects I think that we work on is quality because education needs to be quality education, no matter what you're doing, whether it's English language, whether it's TVET, higher education, K 12, it needs to be quality. And our, our members and chamber, I suppose, in all things is really geared to making sure that British involvement has quality. It has that quality stamp that people are confident that if they invest their time and energy and, of course, resources, they're going to get something that doesn't just say it's good, but has a quality stamp of being good that has outcomes that are deliverable to them and whatever they want to achieve through, undertaking their qualification.

Matt:

I think, Ending on British quality. It's a great place to wrap this up. Chris, thank you very much for your time. we've covered quite a lot there about general education and where it is in Vietnam, And how the education working group is adding value to our members and, looking at different initiatives, opportunities, and of course, challenges. So thank you very much for your time. It's greatly appreciated. For more information on BritChamp, please visit BritChampVN. com and to download, or follow the BritChamp podcast, please go to your normal podcast provider and follow. Thank you very much, and we will see you next time. Bye bye.