Loseby Lecture - The Use of Commercial Arbitration in Vietnam

In this episode you will hear Insights from Arbitrator Mr Hop Dang about the origins of Arbitration, the reasons for it being included in commercial contracts and the increasing use of this method for dispute resolution in Vietnam. Mr Hop Dang. Mr Hop Dang has extensive experience both in Vietnam and abroad of commercial arbitration and also lectures at the University of Melbourne. Mr Hop Dang delivered is lecture in Vietnamese.

For more information about the Britcham Chamber of Commerce Vietnam please visit www.britchamvn.com

Transcript

0:12

Hello and welcome back to the Britcham Vietnam podcast. for this edition we're looking back at a recent event, the Loseby Lecture 2024. This is an annual event sponsored by Dragon Capital that looks at different aspects of international law. This year's lecture was delivered by arbitrator Zhang Xuan Hop of Hop Dang's Chamber. He is a distinguished expert in commercial arbitration and alternative dispute resolution. and a lecturer at the Faculty of Law at the University of Melbourne, Australia. He will talk in Vietnamese, so please sit back and enjoy. Ladies and gentlemen, the Lusby Lecture 2024 will be performed in Vietnamese, with simultaneous interpreting available. Good morning, and welcome to the Lowsby Lecture 2024. and having spoken to our speaker last night, I am sure he will inspire and energize you all for your future careers. My name is Matt Ryland, the Executive Director of the British Chamber of Commerce, and it's an honour to be here for the Lowsby Lectures 2024. On behalf of BritCham, I would like to thank the representatives of the Ho Chi Minh City People's Court, the People's Bureaucracy in Ho Chi Minh City, all authorities, and our guests of honour. would like to formally introduce guests of honour today. We're honored to have Mrs. Dinh Nguyen Thu Hung, Judge of Ho Chi Minh City High People's Court. I'd like to welcome Mrs. Trung Nhu Thuy, Chief Justice, People's Court, District 7. And Mr. Kien Nguyen, Head of Legal and Compliance at Dragon Capital via Fund Management. The Lowsby Lecture is an annual event and it is now in its eighth year. The goal is to create an open space for all legal professionals to share knowledge and information on international law. Connecting representatives of departments. Organizations, legal experts, and lawyers. These lectures are named in remembrance of Frank Lowsby, a solicitor who acted for Ho Chi Minh in Hong Kong in the early 1930s. For the 2024 edition, BritCham are honored to organize this event, and are very happy thankful for the support of our sponsor, Dragon Capital Vietnam. It's also a great pleasure to say that in 2024, we have extended the Lowsby Lecture and added two other events, with legal connections. we have UK Vietnam trade, a lens on the utilization of the UK VN free trade agreement, and CPTPP. And then at 5pm, we have a panel discussion on international arbitration for investments on Vietnam. with the theme, Benefits of Commercial Arbitration in Vietnam, from an economic and legal training perspective. This year's lecture aims to provide in depth information on commercial arbitration in Vietnam, exploring its advantages from both economic and legal education viewpoints. The lecture will also touch upon the origins and some achievements of commercial arbitration in Vietnam over the past 30 years, as well as the potential for the development in the coming years to come. As already said, the lecture will be delivered in Vietnamese and will be delivered by arbitrator Dang Xuan Hop of Hop's Dang Chamber. He is a distinguished expert in commercial arbitration and alternative dispute resolution, a lecturer at the Faculty of Law at the University of Melbourne, Australia. Before setting up his chamber in Hanoi, he was a partner at Allen's for many years and also actively participated in the drafting of the Commercial Arbitration Law 2010. He has extensive experience in arbitration, in resolving many disputes, in the International Court of Arbitration, the International Chamber of Commerce, Vietnam International Arbitration Centre, and the Singapore International Arbitration Centre. There will be the opportunity for any questions you have to be asked. If I can ask that you wait until the end of the lecture, and we will have questions then. Therefore, without further ado, I would like to hand over to our speaker Mr. Hopp, Capital, For me, I've been to a lot of different talks, a lot of different topics, and I've been on stage a lot of times. But this is probably the most recorded talk I've ever had in my career, in many ways. The first record is the time it took to prepare him. From the moment he called, to the moment he called the end. I think it was March or April this year. Until now, I have never thought about this talk. I wake up in the morning and think about it. I go to bed at night and think about it. The time, because that would be a waste of time. If I didn't send the order to Mr. Kien, it would be too much. Ah, I can't do that. this is the first record. A lot of time was written because of that reason. I think this is a very important occasion from many different angles. Niall. The topic of commercial wealth is not a new topic. All of you sitting here know a lot about it. In addition to the students, I see a lot of faces here, colleagues, even my predecessors, as well as colleagues of the same age, age or younger, but they all have a lot of experience in this field, more than myself. So this is not a new topic. I don't know what to talk about. It's not that easy. That was a big pressure on second thing is, a very happy sign, I think that, from the beginning to now, we have talked a lot about wealth. But, most of the time, we are in the same profession. Me and you, and Trung, and Duong, and other people here, Lam, we meet, Thien, we talk about wealth, that's a meal, right? We meet, besides talking about wealth, we can't talk about anything else. Yeah. But it's still in a relatively narrow world. Talking about classical music before the 12th century, there were only a few people who cared about it. But when the organizers called me and said that we wanted a Lewis B. Lecture this year on the topic of talent, I was extremely happy. This is the topic of talent. Somehow, I don't know, it has gained interest not only in the world of professionals, but also in the world today. to to the sponsors, especially Bridgham Dragon Capital, for organizing this wonderful event, Luzbi Lecture. The name of a lawyer who has a connection to the history of our country. You probably know, and if you need to know more, for the young people who don't know, you should read the story of Ho Chi Minh in Hong Kong to understand about the lawyer Luzbi and how he influenced the history of Vietnam. how I think I did to convey a have wasted your precious time here today. On that occasion, I would like to thank all of you. I know you are busy. You are going to work, so you have a lot of work to do. Busy with a lot of family, young people are still studying. A lot of time wasted like this is very precious. And I just imagine that it's like a big ship. We each little. The the number of slides I've prepared. I've been talking for years and I've prepared a few slides. But this is the first time I've had the most slides. Can you guess how many slides this talk? With the time from March to September, which is six months, in six months, how many slides will I have prepared for this talk? Can you guess? How many slides will be enough for this talk? With the time of six months. 50, about 50, 150. It's a bit of a waste to make 150 slides in 6 months. I want that I decided to change a bit today, I decided to make only 3 slides. You lucky. That's the good news. news, I haven't said how many words each slide has, right? is how many words each slide has, because it could be if I dive into all three slides? According to you, how many words does each slide have? This is also a record. Each slide, never had a conversation, prepared such a small number of slides, and with such a small number of words on each slide. I asked the organizers to send me the first slide. That would be enough. words. In English, you have to write, Niem Vui, then you'll lose two words. But, lawyers are usually very economical, because money for words. so I only use one word, Joy in English. I'm sure you all know it. It's Niem Vui Suong. What level of joy? Joy, because of my own joy, I said at the beginning of the show, I'm very happy to be here today. Really happy. It's a great honor to be given this honor and to be able to talk to you this morning about a topic that I'm very, very passionate about, as well as many of you here. That's the joy of my personal life. Welcome back to Ho Chi Minh City, a place that I really love. As a person, I'm from the North, from Hanoi, but Saigon has always been a I really love in many ways. From the climate, the people, the life, long streets, the tall trees, the dreams. It's wonderful. I really love Saigon. As said, I'm still the go. I really, really love Saigon. That's my joy. My to have this event today. remember what day it is today? Today is September 5th, the International Children's Day. I am a monk, my mother is a monk too. I really like this day. To me, it's a holiday. of a new beginning. Millions of children and teachers are entering a new school year. It's the beginning of a new beginning. We can see things that are waiting for us in the new school year. It's a wonderful day to have an event like this. I'm very happy. This slide is only for me. I have to yet, but I'm going to move on to the greater joy of our band talk, I often use metaphors about music. The reason is, last night, the band invited me to go out Last night, we had an idea, why don't you all love music? Why don't you put some music in the conversation? little hard to put a folk guitar in the but it also completely changes the story. Well, maybe I'll use some music vibes somewhere. If that you'll understand why. That's the beginning of my conversation yesterday with some friends who are all great musicians. Well, I think we're sitting here like this talk to myself, but the better part will be the harmony with you in the Q& A part, as Mr. Matt said. In a music session. A A performance that only one person can sing is really sad. And then suddenly the singer has I can already tell that the sound is much deeper than the two of them. And then suddenly a guitarist. He comes and plays a few more electric notes in the middle. It's much more lively. Suddenly, he comes and plays the electric note. He adjusts the rhythm. Suddenly, in the middle of the break, he his saxophone and plays a few more notes. That is, everyone in the band create a whole music. No one deliberately plays louder than the other. to show that we are better than others. Listen to me, my voice is the best. No one does that. We all listen to each other. We all support each other. The common goal is to create a collective product. The best possible. And leave our ego behind. I think that's what I want us to do together. Not just now, but in the future. In the common work in this field. Is together. Play a board game. Where everyone contributes a small part of their brain. To create a music product. Not just sound. Otherwise, there's music. If we were all to come together and just speak in sounds, there wouldn't be music, but if we're all in I said at the beginning theme of commercial inclusion is not new. We've been discussing this for several years. But I think this is a, this is a slide from Joy. The funny thing is, I think all of us sitting in this room and many others out there, in the past 30 years and in the next 30 years, are all very lucky people in history. Where we are witnessing a developing country, I am proud to call us a developing country. Why? Because we are the people who contribute to that development every day, every hour. That's great. I think people in developed countries, they don't have that luck. That's what I'm fortunes, but they don't have the luck to be involved in the development day by day, even if it's small, in the things that are harmful to the environment, day by day. We don't have high speed roads, now we have high speed roads connecting one province to another. From the point of not knowing what a mobile phone is, we have a telecom system, which means it's very advanced, top of the world in many aspects. The internet speed is very high. We have made a lot of changes in the past 30 years. Why? And one of those things is that we are building one thing every day, every hour. I used to think that there was only a few people who cared. Now I'm glad to see that we care a lot about commercial growth. Commercial growth, as you all know, you all know, you don't have to say much. Everyone says it's a fast, friendly, effective way to solve trade disputes outside the court. We talk about it a lot. Students at school will hear this 100 times, 1, 000 times. Nothing new. When I first went to work in 1996 or 1994, I don't remember. I don't remember it. Vietnam has the first version of the CPP, the 116 CPP. Students, if you need to find history to read, it is also part of the history of commercial finance. It gives us some great rules about finance. And to finish with one last sentence, if one of the two sides does not agree with the results of the CPP, then bring it to the court and fix it from the beginning. But that was in the 90s, when our society was still the concept of Niall Mackay. And only right to be careful, right? We have to be careful about what's new. I don't think it's anyone's fault. It's not wrong. That's one of our things. We open 2003, when Professor, now Professor Liu Wen dat, was the son in law of the Commercial Trade Commission, he drafted and wrote the Commercial Trade Commission, with a lot of clauses, copied from other countries commercial trade laws, the Wollstrand model law, and stated at the end of the commission, that the Wollstrand model law valuable. It has brought It has brought us to a point where we have developed a lot. Every year, at the Vietnamese Central Bank, there are 400 500 different cases. Foreigners are disputing, Vietnamese are disputing, foreign lawyers are disputing, Vietnamese lawyers are disputing, foreign bankers are disputing, Vietnamese bankers are disputing, Vietnamese language is disputing, foreign language is disputing, Vietnamese law is disputing, foreign law is disputing. We are developing a very complex system of trading, far from what it was 30 years ago. And we are all lucky to be part of this development. Right many more in Vietnam. And all of those things are very gratifying, right? But I think the reason we're sitting here today, I want to share with you, is not to tell you what we've done, right? You've heard the story, right? The song is good, but it doesn't solve the story at all, right? We're sitting here, praising each other, clapping hands, and I think, you've wasted your time here, I think if we just say that, it won't waste your time. and have a great day. What I want What I want to share and invite you to share with each other is that before any development, there are challenges. We have developed so well, but any development can be divided into two directions. Whichever way we are going, we will soon reach a crossroads, right? And depending on which branch we split, it will take us to a different point. And I think that's the same with commercial finance. It's the same with everything else, isn't it? This is something I think there is nothing we have to hesitate to say. If we do not do well, it is not certain that we will bring the commercial finance industry to the point where we need to bring it to, as we want now. Like in the song, you guys have a song that I wrote for you guys. It's not me who wrote it, it's the organizers. I wrote a lot of ideas in it, you can read it yourself, and I won't read it again, it's up to you. I just said, an example that I wrote in it is, like a highway, I think, I dream that there is a highway running from, from, from, from Saigon to Vung Tau, to somewhere, at high speed, like all the other countries, but from the highways, running non stop, 120 kilometers per hour. That's my if we don't do it well, the people will keep running across the street, the buffaloes will keep running across the street, the trees will keep running across the highway, and people will have to put red lights there to stop the traffic. In a short time, that highway will become a village road. The labor of so many people to build it won't be in the highway. This is the same thing. In the commercial sector, building a highway, and how we build it, how we use it, it's up to us. I think this is the challenge. And for that, I think we should Today, Today, I won't be talking about technical issues. If you, now, I think every week, or at least once every two weeks, have a conversation about Vietnamese translation, you can go online. You can look for experts sitting there, they talk about how to fix the translation law, uh, what for translation, uh, how to pronounce it. technical issues today. I think, I think we can find out about those things in other talks. But what I want us to do together here, is to have a conversation. I'm I'm going to take a step back and look at what I'm building. Where are the core values of the talent? And I use that to make the foundation of all the rest. Now I have to close my eyes and imagine that this trip, where do I go? I go to Independence Park, or I go to Thao Dien, or I go to District 7, or I go somewhere else. I have to have a plan in my head. Of course, I can go different ways. I can stop at different points. I can go to places that I don't know. The end goal is to get to that point. I think that all of us have to come together to reach that point. Then the power of music can be strengthened, right? We have to know where to play softly and where to play strongly to create an effect for the listener. Then we have to share those points. Of course, there may be some changes, but we have to have that picture. So this is what I want to share with you about the know what its value is, What is it? We built it in that direction. We built a house, we built it like, ah, this house gives us a place to live, or gives us a place to do business, or gives us a place to gather and play with friends. So, depending on the purpose, we built the house to suit the purpose. Otherwise, if we just built a house, we don't know what to do with it. So, we how to build a house. I would like to ask second slide. Mr. Huyen, please give me the second slide. I have gone through a third of the presentation. This is the second slide. Where of the transcript? I've heard a lot about it from the students. It's a way to solve disputes outside the court. It's fast, effective, etc. It's great. It's different from the court. In addition to the advantages of the transcript, from the dispute side, you can choose the person to solve the dispute for you. It's a secret. You can choose the language to solve the dispute. There are a lot of things in there. And one great thing, I think, What What other words can be better than great? On top of great? What do young people use? Top of top? What do young hundreds of countries have agreed that customs is the way to solve disputes. It needs to be developed, especially in the field of international trade. And so, 170 countries came together and signed an agreement saying that I will respect all customs rules from your country. For more UN videos visit www. un. org You can't do anything right now. Can you invite 170 countries to sign something? I don't think so. You are a trustee. You sign a decision, a ruling, and immediately 172 countries stand up and say, I support this ruling. That's crazy. And that's why if you, if a business is subject to a trustee court, you have to pay some money. If that If that business doesn't pay, the property of that business, the employee of that business can be arrested in any country in the 170 countries. That's a terrible thing. I will go deeper into the technical aspects of that, I will give a lecture in the trade of the teachers at the universities of other countries. What I want to say is this word, Confidence. Confidence, brought back by the trade. As in the article I told you in the page, I don't remember how many pages, I don't remember how many pages, I remember my story when I first started working as a young lawyer following a client to negotiate a foreign investment project in Vietnam in 1993 94. And after a lot of negotiations, we came to a conclusion that we had to settle a dispute between Vietnam and a foreign company. a dispute arising from this project, from this contract, to be resolved in Paris. Vietnam is not ready to say that it will bring the whole of Vietnam. At 5. 30 pm, the signing ceremony was arranged at a large hotel, right? The tent was set up, the pool was set up, the sisters in long shirts stood up to welcome the guests to the signing ceremony of the contract. At 5. 30 pm, the Vietnamese and the foreigners announced that they would stop negotiating. I followed the car of the foreign delegation to Dai Ban Doanh, sitting there, and the Vietnamese side was ready to announce, report to the press, cancel this solemn ceremony. To the point, because one of the problems is the issue of dispute. We returned to Dai Ban Doanh and sat there, and I know for sure, as a member of a committee, an advisory committee, I know that if the Vietnamese side does not agree with the tariff, the foreign side will not invest. Non-negotiable. In few years like this, it was a very, very advanced decision from the Vietnamese side. And that project was successful. The foreign side has invested. And I think that under this light, has been benefited from that project. Provide energy sources for all, many southern provinces of Vietnam. And we are sitting here in this room, enjoying the cool air conditioner and the light, I think. You don't need to have a dispute, right? It's not the value of the dispute, where every year there are a few hundred disputes at the Vietnamese Dispute Center or at the Singapore Dispute Center of Ban Duong here to solve the problem. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Millions, billions of disputes, billions of non dispute transactions are taking place on the basis of a dispute. It only happens when there is a dispute in that contract. And there is no need for a dispute, we are still benefiting every day, from a social economic point of view. I will focus on the international level of investment. A Vietnamese investor invests in other countries. On the contrary, investors from other countries invest in Vietnam. Of course, they are fighting against the future. They are fighting against many things. They have a lot of things, like working technology, market, and acceptance of their products. And one of the things they need to fight for is that if they have a contract signed with a partner in the country, then that partner will comply with their commitments. This is also a fight. Signing a joint contract. We fight every day, right? Signing a marriage contract is a big fight, right? We hope that our partner will comply with their commitment in the marriage contract, right? It's a fight. But we have to have faith to fight, right? No one fights, no one believes. With 170 countries participating, the financial institution has created a belief for businessmen and investors all over the world. They believe that if our partners agree with the regulation of the financial institution, they will comply with their commitments. And if they do not comply, the financial institution will activate and force them to comply. That is an extremely big belief. If there is no belief, I will use my example again, the story I told. If you don't have that belief, the investor won't invest in Vietnam, and vice versa. If you don't have that belief, Vietnamese companies won't invest in foreign countries. They might go bankrupt. But if you have that belief, that belief is a huge value. I repeat, you don't need to fight for it. The the Dream bike you're riding outside, the students you're riding to school every the Toyota bike of the taxi company you're riding on the street. We all have those things because the investors believe in the investment environment here. And part of that belief comes from the partnership accepting the terms of the contract. A few days ago, I had a very recent dispute. In the that the balance sheet, the value of the balance sheet, is now being used a lot by the financial sector. In the past, debt contracts were purely used by the courts because they said that the courts were just asking for money. But all over the world, the lending and de lending companies have gradually moved to the balance sheet for many reasons. And this is an example. I dealt with this case recently. There was a Singapore company, they lent a few million dollars to Vietnam. asked for money, the Vietnamese side couldn't pay. Couldn't pay. Couldn't pay. They were in debt. They were in up. Didn't show up. Yesterday morning was the trial. When the time came, I was surprised to see that the Vietnamese side showed up. The Vietnamese side showed up. And at the hearing, the jury said that the report was submitted to the Court of Arbitration. I was the one who had to call the owner of this house and tell her that if she didn't show up, then the Court of Arbitration would have to pay this money. And I to her that only after a very short period of time, I would go to Thien An, and they would take her house. So she had two choices. One was to let the Court of Arbitration do the work, and the boat would run on its to her that if she didn't show up, then the Court of Arbitration would have to pay this money. and and the two of you come, we'll talk more. So belief, they say, we'll do it. And the other sister is forced to say, oh, I believe so too. And she has to come. And when she came to the meeting yesterday, I said, now we've gone through the documents, and we're ready to make a decision, but I think it's a good thing that we're on the same page. Because if not, the transcript will work, and it will go its way. I haven't said what the result will be, but it will go its way. And that's for sure. There's nothing in between. It's a train from the beginning to the end. But before that, let me give you a chance to solve it with each other, so we don't have to use that train. And after two hours, they solved it together. The company reduced 2. 3 percent of the revenue generated in the past year, and added a loan limit of about 4 years. great stone, but sometimes you don't need it. The beauty of it is that What is it good about? First, it's self sufficient. I always tell you guys about the law of the land. How to write the law? Because this is not like the environmental law, the road traffic law. It's not like this. People don't like it, but they don't use it. so they don't use it. In the market, you can't control it with your bare hands. The good thing about it is that it's good, so they use it. It's not good, so they don't use it. That's why it has to be good. It's forced, otherwise it will die. That's the good thing about it. And if good, then it doesn't have to do anything. people will use it very fluently. You don't have to do anything cool. The cool thing is that it creates a belief for everyone in the game, all over the world, that once you have committed, you will do it. And if you don't do it, this mechanism will be activated in more than 170 countries, and force you to do it. Otherwise, the price will be very high. I think that's a huge belief for everyone involved in seen a lot of other examples. If you don't have a commercial still happen, but it will be more limited. And most importantly, it will be more expensive. The risk is calculated. The investors are very good. The risk is to raise the price. You buy an iPhone for 1, 000, Because it has a deposit under the contracts below. But if it doesn't have a deposit, the price of Haiwo is only 5, 500. Who has to pay? Who is the one who has to pay that fee for us? So you can sit down and imagine that if there is no deposit, how the world will change. That's how it is. We will be the one who has to pay for all the increased fees, regardless of other issues arising. Then I will go back a little further and I can sit and talk about this in the evening. Then I will go to the last slide. I am happy to announce that I will go to the last slide. Um, uh, Tôi nghĩ mt cái loi hay na ca Trng Tài. Of course, I'm an old fashioned person, I treasure talent and I put my heart and soul into it, and when I say it too much, people say, oh, you say it too much, and many things are better, it's not bad, right? I like Trnh Công Sơn, I've always liked Trnh Công Sơn, Phm Duy, I still listen to many other musicians, Le Quyên Phương, Ngô Thy Miên, and now there's Vũ. Thnh Suy, Anh Xuân Nghe, Thnh Công Sơn, But if you allow me, I can be a little crazy, a little crazy, it would be better. Let's be a little romantic in this story. I had a teacher who taught me how that he took me to the highway. Right from the first day, he took me to the highway. And he told me a sentence that I will never forget. They said, I don't teach you how to drive. I take you here, I teach you how to drive culturally. I thought it was so cool. Why? It's important It's important to have a culture. Once you know how to ride a bike, you can ride anywhere. It's important to ride a bike with a culture. And this high speed road can only have its true meaning if everyone who rides a bike on it has a culture of riding a bike on a high speed road. And if you imagine a high speed road, but the people who ride a bike don't have a culture of riding a bike, then that's a disaster for everyone who participates in a high speed road. I think if you imagine, then we won't start talking about that anymore, right? I think if you imagine people participating in a high speed road without a culture, then what does it become? Crazy. The value of Chinese characters this. After many years of development, the world's trade industry has established set of rules, methods, and practices that meet international standards and can be applied in any country. Of course, there are some exceptions, but I'm talking about the majority in general. It's It's like riding a motorbike. If you want to travel, you have to you have to know the roads, you have to look around, you have to look around, you have to look around, it's the same everywhere. All All of you who are learning how to drive, you have to get on the highway, and learn the culture of driving on the highway and climate. It has become a part of their lives. Then they can drive safely on the country roads. Because that is a part of their reflection. In my speech, Inza gave me a lot of examples. teachers. The fellow lawyers here, the judges, the judges in the audience, can use it, consider using it, in their training, to form habits for the students. I think it's very, very good. Not only in the field of finance, but in many other fields. For example, cooperation. Finance is an environment where people in that game all cooperate with each other. Ignore, well, I've I'm dealing with very civilized people. We We don't say anything, we don't point fingers at each other, we don't say things that shouldn't be said. We only focus on a scientific question, who is right, who is wrong. What is A plus B equal to? How much is square root of 2 equal to? It's just a scientific question. And if you say anything, if you shout, if you cry, it doesn't change the fact that A plus B is square root of 2. What is division of 6? It's It's like that, it's like that, right? So we work together to make it scientific. To get a very scientific result is the best. I need to, uh, for example, each side must submit a document in a week, for example. A week is not enough time. Instead of one side, or just submit it late, or ask me, say, Mr. President, please give me a week. The other side objected immediately, said no, why is it like that? So the battle happened again. I'm I'm not sure if it's a good idea, but I'm fine with it. If you take it slow, I'm fine with it. If you take it slow, I'll take it slow. I'll take it slow. When people are united, I don't have a problem with it. Even though it's a painful issue, the environment is very pleasant. Imagine going to a hospital, and when you get out, you feel like, of course, your family must be in pain, you must be in pain, but it still feels good. It's the same when you're in pain. So So that people want to come back again. People say, yeah, it's a tough fight, I lost too. But the experience is pleasant. That's what I think is great. And if this happens again, I'll use it again. The football match was tough, but the referee was very concentrated. The fight was very pleasant. I think that's what we need to aim for. That's one example. The second example, and there are many other examples in the script. I think we're running out of time. I will quickly go This is a game where everyone has to try their best, without waiting for a justice from the heavens to fall. I think it's one of the best, but also the worst movies in the history of cinema. I used to watch it a lot. It's a crime crushing movie. Older people probably know all about this movie, but young people don't. There's this guy, he The The face doesn't look as white as I do. There's a There's a cut on the forehead. Anything that If you have any problems, you come and fight, immediately after two episodes, all problems will be solved, and the bad guys will be caught, and everything will be fine. It creates an illusion of justice, that if there's a problem, you just have to come and fight, and somewhere you'll be judged fairly. That doesn't exist. I don't know about other environments, but it's hard to exist when you're naked. If it doesn't exist, it's hard to exist. That's all. All All sides who come to the Constitutional Council have to do all they can to help the Constitutional Council, help the other side find the easiest justice. The justice here is the justice that depends on the evidence based documents that are available in front of you. It's purely a meal, right? You bring me meat, potatoes, um, smell, and I will cook a curry dish. I can't cook another dish. I can't cook another dish. I want to eat Vietnamese food, I want to cook curry for you, but you bring me this dish, so I have no other choice, right? It's not the chef's fault, right? So we, everyone in this story, must have a responsibility, not just waiting for the system to fall somewhere, a so called justice falls on the head, but it doesn't. We have to understand that What's the result of our arguments? The answer is purely scientific. The researcher cannot just put his hand in his pocket and get something out of nowhere. It's not like a magician. Everyone has to do their best. I often say that, for example, we researchers are like surgeons. We are people in white shirts, holding a knife, stepping into a room, looking at a file, and then we're done. So, is it a success or not? It depends a lot on what it is. Do the nurses clean the scissors? Do they sharpen the scissors? is not true. It's not just a simple story, right? Staffs are ready for they whole year. Those are the culture, which is the most important thing. Here, I want to get back to my previous slide. Respect for commitments and respect for laws. Respect for laws and commitments is also part of laws. You are committed. I I made a commitment to the law of the land. In the early years of the law school in Vietnam, my teacher taught me that the contract is the law of the land. We will follow that. That's also the culture. Like the case I discussed this morning. The simplest thing is the two sides, the Constitutional Court has convened a meeting, then both sides have to come. It is not just, right or wrong, it is a part of the culture of the game. What is not thinking? I didn't do anything wrong, I was right. I didn't have to go anywhere. You can treat me however you want, I know I'm not wrong. I'm just sitting at home, listening to music, doing whatever I want. Or the other way around. You're wrong in every way, there's nothing left to lose. Just run away, go to Vung Tau, go to the beach, do whatever you want. So both of those ideas are not cultured in us. Right? Right or wrong, I don't know. You just have to come. Let's have a long discussion. Let's work together on the game. Let's find out what the final answer is. Maybe he was wrong. Maybe he was right. I I think that game is very important, and that example is a little extreme, a little too extreme. But, for example, I often see that there are some finance centers, the rule of the finance center is that if you agree to solve the finance problem in my center, then first of all, each of you The first one to get it right, gets half the cost. And the cost can be as high as hundreds of thousands or half a million dollars. Each person, not knowing if they did it right or not, but each side participating, gets half the cost. So the guy, if he thinks he's right, he says I did nothing wrong, all of a sudden I'm going home to get married, half a million dollars, and I'm here, it sounds nonsense. I'm not paying, what do you want me to do? I'm not paying, what do you want me to say? But he forgot one thing, that's how it is. That's the rule of the game. If you participate in the lottery, that's the rule. And you have to participate. If you don't, you'll have to pay the consequences for not participating. And if you're right or wrong, you'll be punished. But that's part of the game. And no one can give themselves the right to decide that they're right, and that's how they're treated. In my opinion, that's right. In a football match, when the referee blows the whistle, the player gives himself the right to say, No, you blew the wrong whistle. Let's just Let's just say, you attack the bartender, is it worth watching? It's impossible to imagine that, if all the players have the same behavior, the bartender would still exist for a hundred years. Even though the bartender may be able to blow the whistle, that doesn't mean it's a hit. But it will have other consequences, other consequences for the bartender. But the player is not allowed to say that the word is wrong and attack the word. Of course, it's a matter of course. And many people ask me, Many people ask me, So the word is wrong? Is there a mistake in the word? Or is it a mistake in the word? You've been in the World Cup once, you're a talent scout, and you want to destroy people's lives, how can you do that? That's a very reasonable question. You keep lying, you keep talking about it, but how do you deal with people's mistakes? Back to the idea of high speed rail, I think that question is like the question Bro, you're on the high speed rail, you're going 100km per hour, what if you crash? That's a good question. But that's not why no one gets on the high speed rail, people still go every day. It's like asking, bro, you're flying on a plane in the sky, and the plane crashes, what do you do? How do you do it? What is the result? Less accidents on the highway than on the road. Less accidents question we have to ask each other is How do we build our model? This is the conclusion of this article. I think that in order to build a wealth environment that everyone believes in, my second slide, the confidence, everyone believes in, and everyone in that game does the right thing. It's true that culture matters. The second word is culture. Finally, let's go back to the first slide. Everyone is happy, everyone is joyful. Despite the result of the military competition, the military competition, but losing is very sad. But it is still a memorable experience for their team, and they are ready to participate again. If there's a chance, right? I think that's a really, really great thing. And the belief, the belief brings back a lot of value. And going back to the end of my speech, I referred to the example of Lawyer Louis B. Going back to the story, for the young students who don't know, you should look up decided that Ho Chi Minh was and the unification of the French government, was the leadership of a and the decision of the Hong Kong government to arrest the president of the United States. And the two barristers, hired by Mr. Lewisby, also agreed with that view. And as soon as the current difficulties were eased, Mr. Lewisby filed a complaint to the Supreme Court, Privy Council, in London. Then the British government immediately came to power, because they also believed that the Supreme Court in London The United Nation will rely on the rights of Hong Kong citizens. The United Nations values the right to validation of the law, and they agree to make concessions without a court martial so that the United Nations can be granted freedom to go wherever they want without the need to return to Vietnam. That belief will only result in a court martial. What's What's great about it is that when people believe it, the government doesn't do anything. They just do it themselves. I'll come back to the three conclusions in my article, and I'll stop there to move on to the Q& A. I think, I think, going back to what I said earlier, building a high quality road to wealth creation is a common goal. It is very important. And the reason is, I say this with a bit of a nationalist sentiment, but I will say it anyway. I often have to go and ask for help from others, watch TV, ask for help from my sisters. When I was little, I used to watch TV, ask for help from my neighbors. It was very hard. I would go to the window of my neighbor's house and watch TV. If my wealth creation is not good, I will still have to go and ask for help from other countries. That's my perspective. That's If we can't make a car, we have to import a car. But if we do it well, we can use it right away. The Vietnamese Commerce and Trade Organization will create trust for not only Vietnamese businessmen, but also the whole world. In short, if you have a business in Vietnam and have reached an agreement, you can trust that the Vietnamese partners will respect your commitment. And if they don't, the Vietnamese trade union will be activated and force them to do this. If you have that belief, you will have many other things. And the examples I mentioned in my speech, from the government, from the state, Nope. We We only need a few messages, a few decisions of some state bodies, of the parliament, of the court. It's like, it's like a military exercise on farming. A military exercise for a week or so, and you're done. You don't have to do much. From then on, probably now, there's no need for the police to stand outside. No one will drink beer. Not even when driving. If we don't behave properly, if we don't respect the culture of high school students, it will harm us. As for the future, I've heard my friends talk about it. It's related to what I'm doing for the future. I'm leaving my legacy for the future. I'll leave it for another story. But let's use these upper level architectures, with their proper responsibilities. And the educational institutions, teachers, students, let's learn from them. Let's learn from them. Let's participate in them. Let's do it. Just by coming here today, you are setting a very important milestone in this high speed railway, in a quiet way, right? If all of us, all of us sitting here today, and all of us in the future, are united in this cause, then I think we can do it. If, if we ever had a high speed railway, I remember when I was the Minister of Transportation in Vietnam, I said that, when I was walking in front of the train station, I saw a buffalo. He said, I wish every day that this girl had a mobile phone. It's here. We can do it. Why not here? And finally, back to the topic of music, as I said, music is still a vivant. I often put this song to end with the lyrics of the former singer John Lennon in the song Imagine. You may say I'm a dreamer. One day you'll join us. I'm not the only one. I hope one day you will dream with me and the whole world. for listening. Well I hope you'll agree that was a very insightful, and interesting look at how arbitration is becoming a more common vehicle for dispute resolution in Vietnam, and I'm sure one that will continue to grow. To find out more about Britcham Vietnam, please visit www. britchamvn. com, and to download the podcast, please go to your normal podcast listening platform, search Britcham Vietnam, and press follow. Thank you very much, and see you next time. Bye bye.