We Play Full Out with Bart and Sunny

Change Starts When You Quit Wiping The Mirror

Bart and Sunny Miller Season 1 Episode 104

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0:00 | 28:17

You can work harder, learn more, and chase better tactics and still feel stuck, because the real problem is often where you are looking. We start with a simple story: you notice salsa on your face, look in the mirror, and try to wipe the mirror clean. The glass gets messier, but nothing changes. That’s what it looks like when we try to control partners, kids, coworkers, or the market to avoid what’s happening inside our own operating system.

We talk about what changes when you act as the operator instead. 

In relationships, we’ve seen how growth spreads through embodied example, not pressure: fitness habits, new hobbies, and energy that becomes contagious. When conflict hits, we dig into triggers and what they can reveal about shame, jealousy, and the places we still withhold self-love. That inner work is not fluffy, it is practical emotional regulation that gives you freedom to respond rather than react.

Then we take the same lens to entrepreneurship and performance. Why can two people get the same business strategy and end up with totally different results? Because it’s the code. Day trading shows it instantly: a simulation is easy, real money exposes your wiring. We also explore how pressure changes physiology in sports and music, why small wins build real confidence, and how “becoming the operator” often means shedding the heavy chain of old beliefs instead of adding more effort.

If this hits home, subscribe for more conversations like this, share it with a friend who’s stuck in the tactics trap, and leave a review so more people can find the show. Where in your life are you still wiping the mirror?

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Mirror Lesson For Self-Change

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to We Playful Out with Bart and Sonny Miller. Take it away, Sonny. What are we going to talk about today?

SPEAKER_01

We are going to talk about you as the operator, Bart.

SPEAKER_00

You as the operator.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Tell me the analogy that I've been hearing from you recently regarding a mirror.

SPEAKER_00

Well, the mirror is an interesting thing. And the analogy goes like this. A lot of people in their life want to change something. So let's say, for example, that I am eating some food, which I like to eat food, and I'm eating some salsa, and all of a sudden I get some salsa on me, unbeknownst to me, on my face. So I walk upstairs, I look at myself in the mirror to only see the salsa on my face. And I'm like, oh my gosh, the salsa should not be on my face. I want it off. So I reach up to the mirror and I try to wipe the salsa off my face. Only to find out that the mirror is just getting dirtier and dirtier with my fingerprints and the salsa's going nowhere.

SPEAKER_01

Probably actually smudging the salsa all over your face in the mirror instead of the one spot it was on.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you know, I'm just compounding it because I'm making the mirror a mess and my face is still a mess and all the things, but I'm not making progress on the thing I wanted to make progress on because I'm determined to get the salsa off my face by using my image in the mirror.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, what I said just made no sense. So keep going with that.

SPEAKER_00

So that's okay.

SPEAKER_01

You're like, yeah, Sonny, let's keep going.

SPEAKER_00

Finally, you realize that I'm going about the problem of getting the salsa off my face. The way that a lot of people approach life, right? Is like, I'm gonna change you, like what it being, my significant other, my friends, my this, my that, not realizing. So that's the mirror. I'm out there and I'm trying to get that salsa off. I'm doing everything I can to remove it, but it's not removing because I'm using the mirror versus going to myself, seeing where the salsa is, and then taking it off and fixing myself first. So I think it's a really good way to look at life and so many things. How much are you seeing something and trying to fix the external versus fixing the internal, which actually is the root of where you want to fix?

SPEAKER_01

It's the key point, right?

SPEAKER_00

It's the key thing.

Lead By Example At Home

SPEAKER_01

But you know, how does this look? So, you know, partnerships.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm in a partnership. Yeah, I want to grow, I want to learn, I want to excel, I want to do all these things, but my partner's not interested. And I think, oh, if if you would only get on board, if you would only come with me, if you'd only look at this, like I want to be with you, but what can I do?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Get you on board.

SPEAKER_00

That's a great question. And you and I face this a lot because obviously I love to do all sorts of things from bodybuilding, pickleball, you name it. I like to do things, right? And so I'm gonna use fitness for this example because I think it's got some, I don't know, just got some things to talk about. So, you know, in my journey, I decided I wanted to become a bodybuilder. And so actually, my young, my oldest son was the one that kind of encouraged this. And so I won't tell that whole story, but when I uh decided to take that challenge on, um I we talked as a family, everybody agreed, it's a great idea. Let's go. So uh we started that journey, and um you were absolutely beyond supportive in that journey, in meal prepping, things like that. And uh I'll make this story a little quicker so it's it's interesting to you guys, but the long and short of it is is that as the journey went on, my family saw what I was doing. They saw what my son was doing, they started watching that. My daughter started like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get into fitness. Oh my gosh, my other daughter, I'm gonna get into fitness. My amazing wife was already working out and then all of a sudden goes, you know what? I've watched you do this at a level that I want to take this on myself. Now, I wasn't sitting there saying to anybody, hey, you guys have got to work out. You've got to look great. Oh my gosh, if you guys aren't, you know, meeting this criteria, we're just not gonna look great as a family. How dare you all? Nothing. Never said a word. But by my example of what I was doing, how I was eating, what I had to buy for food, which obviously altered the way that the family was saw food, was eating food, changed our entire family in the fitness realm. Another one, uh, we started playing pickleball. Uh, some of the family had absolutely no interest at first of playing pickleball. It was like, oh my gosh, this is a waste of time. Dad's gone, he's doing these things. I would come home with funny stories, had nobody to, you know, really laugh about the stories and stuff like that with. But nonetheless, I was telling the stories and I was having a lot of fun. Then all of a sudden, we had a few family activities, and you guys decided to go play some pickleball. And uh then that led to my youngest son starting to really get to be fanatical. He wanted to play, wanted to play, wanted to play. So we started playing, which led to my oldest daughter playing, which led to my oldest son was already playing, which led to my amazing wife jumping in, and now she's an amazing pickleball player, but never had done a paddle sport in her entire life. You know, so when we start to fix ourselves, no, we we can't expect somebody to go on our journey. We can't even assume that they're gonna go on our journey, let's be clear. But you know what I find is enthusiasm, excitement, fun, all of that starts to rub off because you're doing it inside yourself, and other people want to be part of that. And so um, you know, there's there's other categories in relationship that uh I think are really important. When you start to really work on yourself, and let's say, for example, you decide you are working on you and you start doing breath work or you start doing these or cold plunging or you start doing other things, your significant other goes, What are you doing? And it's like, Well, I'm doing this because I actually am trying to get at a you know, a more clear head. I'm trying to do these things, and they'll always be like, Well, you're crazy, or they're like, That's really cool. One of the two options, right? And when they say you're crazy, what they're really in my mind saying is, How long are you gonna stick with it? Are you is this just another freaking fad? Or what? You're gonna do this for a week and then quit? But all of a sudden, when you start doing it and all of a sudden you start having these, like you're waking up more chipper or whatever it might be, instantly they're like, Hey, can I try this? Can I experience this? And you don't even have to ask. Eventually, I just see that that's what happens. So I don't know if those are great which examples of what you're looking for, but for me, that's what I see in my life and my friends around me and things like that. They all see it and they're like, hey, what are you doing that's different than somebody else that's making you happy or making you this or you know, changing that? How have you been married for 30 years? How have you had four amazing kids that are doing these things? How what is your what are you doing? Is it just all tactics? I mean, are you do you have strict schedules at home? You know what's going on?

SPEAKER_01

It's your playbook.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

Triggers Point To Self-Love

SPEAKER_01

So good. No, I really love that. I think that is fantastic. Um, one thing I would like to discuss with you. Those are all awesome for like, hey, I'm doing something awesome and they see it and they want to come along. Okay. What if you're having conflict and you're trying to control the situation? Um, here's what I think.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I think that let's say you're triggering me over something and I'm like, if you would just change, right? Like, stop doing the thing and I'll be okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Really, I'm avoiding something inside of myself that wants to be seen.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So if you go back to the mirror and go back to the mirror, I'm like, just change and I'll be okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But when I go back in and I and I honestly believe it all comes down to self-love. If I can accept whatever that is inside of myself that I'm triggered by, either whatever you're doing will completely stop bothering me, might even be on board cheering it on, or we fall into alignment. Like there's just there's no either, you know, and I think that with kids too, it can be the same thing as like something is really triggering us and we're demanding a change and we're trying to force the outcome. If we look at ourselves as the operator and say, okay, what inside of me is causing this, yeah, then that brings things into alignment.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think that's really, really good. And sometimes it's interesting, you know. Um, in my life, I've watched this, you know, and I all of a sudden, when I look into myself, it's like, ooh, I got a little jealousy there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's me being jealous.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, oh my gosh, I have some shame around this.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

I have incompetence around this. Uh wow, I really don't love myself as much as I thought I did. And that's a that's a hard, hard, hard thing sometimes. At the same time, the more I do it, the more I'm like, it's not hard. It's actually the best thing that's ever happened to me. It brings me energy. Like I'm now I'm realizing why I was so triggered over this thing that should have never triggered me in the first place.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think it it gives you freedom and it gives you power that has just been waiting for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But it's like it's a self-empowerment process, and you're no longer like in the constraints of these negative emotions. I mean, what better way to have freedom than that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. And I think that's uh it's like I said, this mirror analogy is such a powerful, powerful thing. And uh it's like we've always talked about when you have a third party following you around filming everything, it's just so funny what you're gonna find out if you were to film your real reality and have to review it every single day and say, am I showing up the way that I want to show up, or am I trying to take salsa off the mirror all the time?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um I would say that you know, there's times when like sometimes the self-awareness is enough. It's like, oh, oh, I see that this shame or whatever is what's causing me to react that way. Yeah. Other times I think it's more of a patterning process of like, wow, that's been programmed into me for a long time. Yeah. So when you find yourself in those moments, it can be like call out that part of you that's so programmed and say, uh-uh, I see you. Yep, you know, awesome, but we're doing something different today.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And that's how you can start to repattern those things that have been there probably since you were like five.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I I I like to use this analogy in this situation, is that you know, for me, traditional medicine was kind of the thing that you used, you know, like it's the way to think, it was the way so that pattern when I was starting to look at is there another way to accomplish this, I was like, you know, no. But then as I started to watch and I started to see alternative ways in health, it was like, whoa, this is really insightful. But it took me, and it still does to this day. I want to go back to there's no way this can work. Even though you can prove it, my mind and my brain has been so brainwashed into this old model that I have to stop myself and say, no, no, no, no. Reality isn't it's what you make it, it's your story, it's this, it's that. Have full belief just like you do in something else, and it works, you know. So there's so many models we could use this in, but I really find it very, very evident in the traditional medicine category very heavily.

The Operator Behind Business Results

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And let's take it to business for a second. Okay. So why, Bart, if I give two entrepreneurs the exact same business engine, the exact same ads and the exact same playbook, one will scale to millions and one will burn it to the ground.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's the adage of who's the operator, which you brought up, right? And what is in the operating system, and what has the operating system been trained to do or to believe or to function as. So, you know, in in in all cases, it doesn't matter if I, you know, you you want to go back to let's be clear, what's the operating code?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's that's your answer.

SPEAKER_01

So it's the 80% that we hear about all the time when we go to events, yeah, and they're uh what's the word, hyped up events, and everybody's excited and cheering and yelling, and and they and they keep going on and on about it's 80% mindset, believe you can do it, believe you can do it, believe you can do it, but here's your strategy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But then you grab the strategy and you go home and you tell yourself positive affirmations and believe you can do it, and then you burn it to the ground.

Day Trading Exposes Emotional Wiring

SPEAKER_00

Yep, yep. Yeah, it's and so that's a really good analogy to look at because let's say we all had this the same strategy, like you said, right? So we're all in this thing, we're being told it's mindset, yet what the offer is is a strategy. Okay, so we go back, we were told it's mindset, but we didn't understand where everybody's mind was and how much coding that they had with the strategy versus what we had. So then we get back, we start hyping ourselves up over, but we already have this code and these beliefs that even though we're saying one thing, our body, our mind doesn't believe the other. So we sabotage it and then we're frustrated and upset because it had to be the tactics. It has to be that salsa is not coming off because I'm scratching the mirror. But I can see I'm scratching off in the right place, therefore it didn't work. And I don't know if that's helpful to people, but but if your mind and your thought processes, it's not tactics like in that that makes the operator operate. So I'll give you a really another one in business. So let's say day trading, right? They have these simulations in day trading.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it's really fascinating. And I could guarantee all of you, I would love for you to take this challenge. Go get some day trading software and just play with the market. Literally just sit and play with the market and go do this. You will trade like a boss, and most of you'll be like, I made so freaking much money. Now I want you to turn it live and put your own money into it, put your own everything into it, and see what happens. Do the exact same thing, but only put your own emotions, your own money, your own situation, and then see what the difference is in your neurological system, in your body and everything. If you don't believe what we're talking about to be true, this is the fastest way I've ever found for a human to go, oh my gosh, what is going on in my mind? What is happening? Because day traders do this every day, they do really, really well. But as soon as I enter, even though I could do it in simulation, when I'm in the real game, I have a problem. I follow all the tactics that I should be following in the simulation, it works. I follow the same tactics, but my money and my emotions are really into it, and everything changes in the game.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's fascinating. And you sit and think, well, that's high stakes. That's high stakes, but it's it's it's the same.

SPEAKER_00

Life is high stakes. It doesn't matter what it is, all the same. Take it home. The way you do one thing is the way you do everything.

Pressure Changes Practice Into Performance

SPEAKER_01

Yep. I was just comparing that in my mind to drilling in pickleball versus playing a game.

unknown

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

And it's the same thing, it's like the stakes have been raised. Now I've got to like win a game. All of a sudden, my body reacts differently than when I'm drilling.

SPEAKER_00

It's the same way. That's why in team roping, you know, when we're at the Warner Ranch, big shout out to Jason and Shauna Warner, and Jason's absolutely amazing at this, which I love about him is you practice for so long, and then we ramp up the pressure. Okay, everybody get out and put a hundred dollar bill on the chute, and let's see who's gonna win. As soon as you throw the hundred dollar bill on the chute, everything changes.

SPEAKER_01

Isn't that fascinating?

SPEAKER_00

It's fascinating. And you will literally see people's physiology change. You will see their routine change, you will see how they handle their horse change, you will see you'll see so many things that when they're just relaxed and they're just in practice mode, how different it really is. And that's where the mind, body, all the things kick in, this 80% that we're talking about that we don't get trained on because we don't put things in our life to train us on it, makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I have another example that I think is really good. So I'm just gonna say it. Uh, Chris Thhiely, amazing mandolin blair. He's top of his class, um, plays with a group called Punch Brothers, but also does his own thing. So just like this, he figures out how he can raise the stakes for himself while he's practicing. So as we're saying, we're more relaxed, you know, just chilling, practicing. He's doing a great job. His fingers are flying, and he knows that when he gets in front of an audience, his physiology is going to change. So he loves to watch tennis and he'll watch a really intense match so that his heart is just racing and he's like, ah, or this he'll he'll do it right after a fight with his wife. And he will go and he'll practice because that's when his emotions are charged, his heart is racing, all the things that are happening, so that he can show up and perform at the highest level he can.

SPEAKER_00

He's found a way.

SPEAKER_01

He's found a way.

SPEAKER_00

It's awesome.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, we uh you'll probably hear the us say this quite often going forward, but a programmer cannot change the color on a website just by thinking about it. Yeah, so when we sit and think, you know, when I'm in those games of pickleball, I talk myself through them. Like I'm fine, just breathe, watch the ball. My body's not on board all the time. Yeah. And so you've got to go into the code. You've got to go into where this energy is in your body, and you've got to understand yourself at a deep level if you want to start actually changing things.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. So good.

SPEAKER_01

The operator.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. Got to become the operator, and you got to be very aware of how your operating system functions and what lights it up, what takes it down, what's the roller coaster inside the body in all these scenarios.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And even talking down to money blocks or imposter syndrome, um, like we say, like when you're day trading, all those fears and emotions come up. These are the types of fears and emotions that we face in our everyday lives. And so when you hear about these blocks, they're really just symptoms of that deeper code that's running in your system. And man, once you dive into it and put a light on it and start to repattern it, like everything starts to raise together. Amen.

SPEAKER_00

So good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And like you, we've been saying one uh how you do one thing is how you do everything. So it's not like I have to go to every category and say, am I operating this way in this category? It's like, no, probably if you're that way in one category, you're in that way in all. So if you work on one, you'll start to see them all rise together, which is freaking awesome. That's right. Right. Um Yeah. Any other thoughts before we move on?

Small Wins Build Real Confidence

SPEAKER_00

Um, no, I think there's, I mean, I I think also I'll just add to this in here, you know, we see we see champions, and it's it's an interesting thing when our physiology actually sees wins. So we need to create wins because as soon as I see that I've made a sell in something and I know it's possible, our brain, our physiology, our everything, our beliefs change. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So that's a really good hack, I would say. It is. It's like a cheat code.

SPEAKER_00

It is a cheat code to life, is you've got to create wins and you got to anchor those wins in your body and say, that's what it felt like to feel like a win, not just a loss. And when we start to train our body on what winning feels like, it attracts more winning to us because the physiology, everything is like their confidence or everything raises when we start to see wins, and that helps us a lot to to do the things that we do in life. So I just wanted to throw that out there too.

SPEAKER_01

So good because um that just brought to mind because you use the term confidence. We all kind of think that we want or need to feel confident before we do something, but it actually comes by anchoring those small wins and the bigger wins into our system. That's what makes us confident. It's like, yes, I can do this, I know because I've done it. That's right. It's not the other way around. Yeah. Which sometimes it'd be nice if it was.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, flip that so much quicker.

SPEAKER_01

Um just really quick on maybe some traps that we fall into. One is the learning loop instead of output loop. Yep. Um, being an operator. Sometimes we try to fix things by consuming in. Information. Again, that's tactics, strategy, the courses, the masterminds, we read the books. But in order to be an operator, you have to be doing the thing. Yeah. So yes, if you need more knowledge, of course, like you have to have some, but if you're not implementing it along the way, you're gonna be a lot further behind. It's like reading a book on swimming without ever jumping in the water. Yes, maybe in theory, you know what you should do, but when you get in the water, it's a whole different ballgame.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you can have knowledge all day of how to swim, but it's applied knowledge when you actually get in the water and have to put that into action. And that's why, you know, practice makes perfect is said all the time. But what we're really saying is perfect practice makes perfect. Yeah. Right? There's there's things that we got to catch ourselves in, is you know, knowledge is power. Well, great. You can have all the knowledge in the world and not do anything with it, right? Applied knowledge is true power.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and and with perfectionism, I think the tough thing is waiting for it to become perfect, right? But it won't be until you actually do it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yep.

Shed The Chain And Burn Scripts

SPEAKER_01

You know, and obviously perfectionism is subjective anyway. That's right. Exactly right. Okay. I think the coolest thing about being an operator is learning that you don't have to add more onto your life. It's actually a shedding. So, you know, we think we've got to have a breakthrough, we've got to work harder, we have to set higher goals, we have to raise our standards, but that's another trap, I think, of the matrix. It keeps us going and grinding and and looking everywhere but at ourselves. And the beautiful thing about shedding is like when you shed the shame, when you shed the guilt, when you shed all these things that are actually blocking your growth and your progress in all areas of your life, you're coming into alignment.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And that's when beautiful things can happen. Your reality can start to change and everything's elevated.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. And once again, we we talk about this a lot, but in a a lot of the beliefs that we have, and I I did this at our event, you know, I I took a chain and you know It was a really big, heavy chain.

SPEAKER_01

Like I would not want to, I don't even know if I could lift it onto my shoulders.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's 45 so that you can have a visual. It's around about 45 pounds in a chain. And it hangs, but so the way it's awkward, right? Because it's a chain. And what we do with all of our beliefs and all these things that we anchor to is we're actually not knowingly adding a link to the chain all the time. So I could name every link and go up the chain and say, well, this is the belief. This is a belief. This is so all this you're you're you're adding to you instead of being able to shed it, and then all of a sudden you're way lighter, way more nimble, way more adaptable, way more excited about life because everything is coming to you and you don't have that burden of all these different things that we're talking about. And I think that's if I can give you a visual, really think about some of the things that you're anchored to of hate of somebody or disappointment of yourself or shame inside yourself or I'm not enough or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_01

Or taking other people's emotions on to yourself, whatever it might be, right?

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Taking their emotions on. You're adding a link on there every single time, and all of a sudden you're so your nervous system is so messed up.

SPEAKER_01

You wonder why you're so tired and life's not fun anymore.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, and I don't want to be a W Downer, I'm saying let's shed the chain. Yeah, drop that. That's empowerment. Let's go. You know, let's get it. Let's let's drop that chain, let's get our code back, let's get our code running perfectly, and let's have the funnest life we can possibly have together.

Journal Your Patterns And Close

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. All right, that's kind of it. Maybe look at the area of your life that feels the hardest right now and think about whether you're trying to wipe the mirror or if you're willing to look at yourself as the operator and dive in.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, start diving in. I want you to, you know, I would encourage you, you know, if I was coaching you today, is really sit and say, why do I get angry? Or why do I get depressed? Or why do I look at myself in the mirror and I go, dang, I'm not where I want to be? Or why do I look at myself in the mirror and say, I'm amazing? You know, just start looking at yourself and start to look at, say, do I have a chain on here and why? What is that that's causing this to happen inside of me? And how is that showing up in my physiology? How is that showing up in my life? And then write in your journal, the one thing that you can do is just journal about this and then say, Can I burn the script? Or do I have to keep this? And if it's I can burn the script, burn the script. Yeah. Love yourself. Then say, What do I want? What do I really want? And then go from there. I was having a discussion with Sunny today, and we'll kind of wrap it up with this. But I was like, you know, I wish everybody, including myself, a lot of days, let's be clear, all 10 fingers pointing at me, could just go up in the universe and just sit from that high perspective and look down and say, and just microscopy look and say, How am I doing? And what a different visual would get. How much our shame, everything, all these things would just go away and say, dang, I'm doing pretty dang good in life. You know, right now we're blessed enough to not have a bomb being dropped on ours. We're blessed enough to have running water right now. We're blessed enough to have food. We're blessed, you know, what are we not looking at those things for? And then let's anchor more of those good codes. Let's write more coding around all that stuff for all of us, and then have a big win in life together. So I guarantee you that as we go to our our deathbed, it's the one thing we're gonna want is our code to be at its high performance and doing that. And tactics are great, but I think the big shift is right now in the world today is tactics are gonna be done for you, but are you gonna play full out in your life? Are you gonna find your real you? And with that, this segment brought to you by I Do Epic.