Real Estate Cycles & Proven Multifamily Strategies with Bill Ham

In this episode, Bill Ham COO of Broadwell Property Group and Founder of Real Estate Raw joins the show and recounts his journey from being a corporate pilot to establishing himself as a Multifamily Real Estate Investor. Bill shares insights into managing a substantial portfolio with innovative financing techniques and becoming indispensable to elite investors. Alongside discussions on the underestimated importance of a well-conceived exit strategy and matching debt structures with investment plans, the episode delves into the complexities of multifamily real estate in the context of rising interest rates. Listeners will receive strategic advice on seller collaboration, creating effective systems for deal flow, and networking to scale their investments. Whether considering self-management or the shift towards third-party management, this episode offers a wealth of practical tips for navigating the challenges of the real estate market, emphasizing the significance of planning, awareness, and adaptability in minimizing risks and maximizing returns.


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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:24

Welcome back to the Money Focus podcast. I'm your host, moses the Mentor. Today we're going to be diving deep into the world of multifamily real estate with a seasoned expert, bill Ham from Real Estate Raw. With a career spanning before 2008, bill has weathered every market cycle over the last 20 plus years, amassing a wealth of experience in a substantial real estate portfolio along the way. He's here to share his journey, from starting with the duplex to teaching others the art of creative financing. Let's learn from a real estate maven on how to thrive across market cycles. Let's go, bill. I appreciate you joining the show. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to come and inform the audience about your real estate investment career background. The first thing I always like to start the show off with is for you to actually walk us through your career journey and, ultimately, how you started your business.

Speaker 2: 1:26

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, I started off in 2005. I was a corporate pilot by trade and I walked away from aviation with a duplex I don't recommend everybody do that, right. But I had saved up $10,000 and I closed the duplex my very first real estate deal. It was making about $300 a month and I walked away from aviation, turned in my tweet, noticed and said I'm going to go figure out real estate. And for better or worse, I did. You know, I was young, I was 28 at the time, no kids, no family, really no debt, so it was kind of an easier life choice for me. But that's how I went into real estate full time and flipped houses for a while and then wholesaling and all the stuff that you do when you're getting started, and then slowly built my portfolio and moved up into multi-family over the years.

Speaker 1: 2:17

When I think of someone going into that career path, they have a passion for aviation and flying, so what made you want to pivot from that career? Just curious.

Speaker 2: 2:29

Yeah Well, I realized I probably wasn't going to be a very good employee. That's pretty much what it was. I decided I didn't like being told when to come to work, where to go to work, what to do when I got there so not great employee material, no really. I saw friends of mine that were out flipping houses and the inspiration came from that. You know, I thought I'm the same as them. They're friends of mine. You know, we were all hanging out in the same place last night.

Speaker 2: 2:56

They got up and went and did some real estate deals and I got up and went to work and they made as much money as I made worth it all year in a transaction or two. And I thought, all right, something's wrong with this picture. And so I spent about a year just studying and learning and reading the books all the books we started with, you know, Rich Deport and all that stuff, right, and so just been a while studying and then wound up closing my first deal, and that's how I ultimately made the transition into it, you know, from aviation into, well, even to real estate, even though my first deal was a duplex and it was technically multi-family. I don't really consider my multi-family career to have started until a little later on. I did a bunch of houses for several years, so I was in single family for a while.

Speaker 1: 3:38

So what were some of your initial challenges when you started full-time as a real estate investor?

Speaker 2: 3:45

Well, money, not having money was a big one, but I would say deals and money. You know, when there's still the same issues that I think everyone runs faces throughout their entire real estate career. It's finding good deals that's always the trick right and then being able to fund the deals, having enough people and net worth and net work and all of that to actually take the deals down that you want to get taken down. You know, when I realized I could do houses alone and that was great, the houses were really moving the financial needle for me fast enough. That's what I realized. I had to get into multifamily. I had to get into something bigger, but I didn't have the money, I didn't have the net worth, I didn't have the experience. The lenders weren't very impressed with me at the time. So you know, I had to learn to become valuable to wealthy people and then join me. That's how I ultimately got into the business.

Speaker 1: 4:36

When you're talking about multifamily, are you talking about like large, like commercial properties?

Speaker 2: 4:42

In the end yes.

Speaker 2: 4:43

In the beginning, no, no. So when I first got started, my very first as I considered beyond that two unit, nine unit was my first sort of what I would consider a real multifamily. So is that multifamily? Yes, Is it large multifamily? Not really no. The second one was a 20 unit and then I did a 27 unit. I'll see 44 units after that. And then I started to get into some larger stuff, you know on down the road. But no, I did not go into big commercial stuff early on. Very few people do. Almost everyone starts off in single family, small multifamily, something like that too, and it's four units, and then they kind of, over time, you know, fill their portfolio.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Many years in between. You know like the small multifamily two to four to the when you first started. You know stomping with the big dogs and the bigger gills.

Speaker 2: 5:32

Yeah, there was there as well. Three years or so, probably. Three years, yeah, three years, yeah, I would say around that rate. A couple years, yeah, building my team, building the credibility being taken seriously, getting your brand, your name out there you know all the things that we do in any business really. And I tell people that multifamily is just a product. It's, you know, it's. We still have to have the business, the business understanding, and that's can be single family, multifamily, hotel, strip malls, it doesn't matter. Those are products. We have to have the business understanding of real estate success.

Speaker 1: 6:06

And you know, tell us a little bit about your team. You know, so your company is a board, well, property group, right? So tell us about what exactly you guys do for the industry.

Speaker 2: 6:17

Well, I have two companies actually. I have Brunnell property group, brunnell property groupcom, which is the real ownership and operation company. I also have an education platform and that's realestaterawcom. So two completely different sides of my business. But yeah, the professional ownership side is Broadwell that we, we own an operating department, complexes and in really have sold them all. So everything that we have, everything on that website, my portfolio, gotten rid of over the last year. I actually tried to update that website and I was thinking about that. Yeah, I sold everything off over the last year year and a half for a show liquidated, got up to the peak of the market, had some really good exits on some great properties and you know that's where we're at now sort of looking to get back in. So we're all our operators of multifamily. That's the short answer of what we do.

Speaker 1: 7:06

So you brought up a good point. As far as you know, you have these properties and they sold them right. So you hear different viewpoints. You hear people say, hey, I'm going to buy a home and I'm never going to sell it, or something like that. So kind of talk us through what, why that exit strategy was important for you at that time to sell now. And it kind of leads into the market cycles and some best practices maybe you can share with the audience.

Speaker 2: 7:34

Exactly. And so several things here you know, buy low, sell high, right, and that's what, that's what we always do. And so my partner, tony actually, who is Tony Morgan of Broadwere Property Group, I'll quote would say you sell with a calculator, not a calendar, and I've always taken away from him that and you know he's right. And so what we always do is we go in and we set our returns and we say we're going to enter the asset here, our projected returns are this, and when we get here and we hit our objectives, we're going to, you know, go through our exit cell and you know, bring up, bring the investment home. So most of our deals, and why we sell and why we exit, are because they're syndicated deals and so we have investors, we have partners that are in these deals, and that's the one of the main reasons why a lot of people have a misconception about owning real estate for long, long periods of time.

Speaker 2: 8:23

And legacy wealth. I teach and I lecture a lot of early country and I talk about this a lot. You know, we give this concept of legacy wealth and I ask people, you know, who in the room wants, you know, legacy wealth for their family. Well, about half the room will typically raise their hand on the legacy wealth concept and then I say, okay, listen, you know he's your concept to lead your family multifamily. And of course everybody goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:45

And I say, all right, now, stop thinking about this. How do you know your family is interested in multifamily at all? You know you are your learning multifamily. Do you know how many deals I've bought at an extreme discount from legacy wealth owners? You know, I mean you want a good deal, get an appropriate court. That's where the deals are at right. And so I tell people you really probably are not doing what you think you want to be leading the legacy of information education, maybe a business model, but an individual asset. We have to be careful about that concept for several reasons. They get old. That's the one thing nobody talks about. I'm going to buy this apartment complex and note it forever and ever and ever give it to my grandkids.

Speaker 2: 9:21

No you're not, you're going to make your grandkids slum lords, that property is going to be a pile of sawdust by the time they get it, you know. Think about that. And then, two, you have debt. Now if you're buying the property, all cash, that's a different story. If you have a loan okay, different type of lending in multifamily, and I won't get out of the boring conversation here but it's not a fully amortized loan, so you're not paying the whole thing off. You know they're belittled. So, one, you're going to have loans come due. You're going to have to kind of exit every sloth to do the debt right.

Speaker 2: 9:49

And then, third, the main reason that you really don't want to hold things forever is market cycles. You know you have to have an understanding of how the market moves and in and out and up and down, and so you want to try and get in at the bottom if you can, or at least understand in a generality where we are at the market. You know, and then position yourself. You don't always have to sell, but you know you want to start in the position you're in, you're debt equity going forward. So those are the reasons I would say people tend not to hold on forever. There are other ones, you know like partnerships breakdown things like that, but those are the main reasons.

Speaker 1: 10:22

As far as past cycles that you've experienced, have you learned a particular lesson, outside of what you just mentioned, that you try to stay true to?

Speaker 2: 10:33

Yeah, the three are three concepts that I always try to teach my students and tell people. It's what I call the three pillars of real estate debt exit strategy, market cycle and, in no particular order, right, but you have to understand all three concepts and get them working together to minimize risk. You know I'm not saying bring risk to zero. I'm not saying you're always going to be successful and always time everything. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we minimize risk through understanding of number one, or exit strategy. You know that's the first part of our deal analysis. What are you going to do with this thing? You got another way out before you go in. Are you going to hold it and operate it, or do you have a long-term loan or short-term loan? Fix the flip burry? You know there's always different things we can do with this piece of real estate.

Speaker 2: 11:14

Okay, next, what kind of market cycle are we in? Where are we at? Do we think we're going up in the market or down in the market? Where are interest rates, things of this nature? And then, lastly, you have to say okay, what am I going to?

Speaker 2: 11:25

You know the loan that I'm going to get, does it fit the exit strategy and the market cycle.

Speaker 2: 11:31

For example, if I'm going to go in and burr model by renovate refinance, you know, and I'm trying to do a quick turn on a property, I would not want to go get a 10-year fanny, may you know fixed-rate loan and all that because that's going to come with a tremendous amount of prepayment penalty.

Speaker 2: 11:46

So that would be the right piece of the right loan, wrong exit strategy for that type of asset, right or for that type of exit strategy. So that's what I'm saying. You have to kind of figure those things out. And then, where we're seeing in today's market, you have to watch the market cycles because you don't want loans coming due in a down cycle if you can help it right. And so when the appraisals are down and I learned this after the 08 cycle, trying to do burr, back in the 08 cycle I was buying things, renovating and that was going great, you know, and then we went through a and then my loan came due and I went to that refinance part and the values had fallen due to other people in the area going into foreclosure. So kind of messed up that exit strategy a little bit.

Speaker 1: 12:53

You've grown your portfolio. You've been in the game now for some time, so I'm sure you've had to be very creative on how you actually finance deals, and you know I wanted to talk a little bit about that. So how do you leverage creative financing and your operation to ultimately grow your portfolio? What are some options that you've used? Yeah, Okay.

Speaker 2: 13:15

So creative financing is cyclical, it moves in cycle, right? So why are we talking about creative financing right now? Why weren't we talking about creative financing three years ago, five years ago? Right, Because it's a problem-based concept. When sellers have problems, the market gets creative.

Speaker 2: 13:32

If sellers do not have problems, if they can just go out, list the asset, sell it, get a higher price all that, you know rising tide, floats all boats scenario then you're not likely to encounter creative financing, lease options, seller financing, things of that nature. But that's why we haven't seen this topic. And we are now seeing the topics, because the interest rates have gone up and traditional financing is not working as well as it was. So now for sellers to sort of get the price that they need, they're going to have to, you know, start working with all of us on creative financing, so they'll answer your question directly.

Speaker 2: 14:06

That's how I used it in the very beginning of my business after 2005, through not much, through oh wait, but then after oh wait, tremendous amount of creative financing in there, and that's how I built my entire first portfolio with all creative financing. So that's, and then we haven't seen it much over the last five, six years because market spends you hot and then again, now we're starting to see it serious. So you're going to want to leverage this going forward. I am leveraging it right now. You're going to want to be looking for sellers that are motivated.

Speaker 1: 14:35

What are the? Yeah, you know it's so funny. Like you hear, a lot of people say, oh, interest rates are so low. And I encounter, you know, different peers across the country that invest in real estate and a lot of times they prefer when the market is more normalized. You know, without these super low interest rates Because, like you mentioned, like you know, sellers don't have to negotiate. You know it's like, oh, you don't want it, they don't have to do anything, they want to get top dollars, so it's better for an investor when the market is not as hot. What are your top tips for successful investing in multifamily real estate? You know what are some things you feel like every investor should know.

Speaker 2: 15:17

Yeah, you. Well, I would say that you really want to build three systems and if you can build your three major systems, then you've got everything pretty much locked out. It's deal flow, deal analysis, networking, and I cannot break the business down into three more basic concepts than that. Everything seems to fit under one of those three. So if you're new, if you're getting into the business, whether you're single, family, multifamily, whatever you're doing you need to set up three systems deal flow All right.

Speaker 2: 15:45

Deal flow is going to be a market selection. It's going to be working with realtors in your market, it's going to be going directly to owners and you want to be analyzing about three deals a week, whatever it is you're trying to buy from duplexes to 200 units, right. Three deals a week, all right. Analysis, deal analysis you got to have a system for analyzing deals, because this is a competency times, frequency model, right, we've got to have deal flow coming in the door. We kind of know what we're looking at.

Speaker 2: 16:11

So, deal analysis what's a good deal? Do you know how to look at a deal? And simply, besides just raising the rent, besides just doing a renovation right, I tell everybody, look for valuation through operation, not renovation. Do you know how to look at a profit and loss? Do you know how to see what a seller is doing, whether they're operating correctly, is this the right price? All those things. So that's deal analysis. And then, lastly, you have to have the network and the net worth. As we say, our net worth is our network. You have to have the team, the people, the relationships around you that's with lenders, that's with investors, friends, family, the whole list to be able to financially take those deals down right. So that's what we're ultimately doing and that's our three step system. So that's what I teach and that's what everybody out there needs to be doing, especially if you're new to business.

Speaker 1: 16:58

For new investors, do you recommend that they get a property manager or self-manage?

Speaker 2: 17:03

Well, interestingly enough, I recommend you manage, don't manage and then manage again, basically in that order. So yeah, I think in the very, very beginning that it is good for you to go out and to manage a few units as you're building your portfolio. Smaller properties is really good for you. It gives you a great understanding of what it takes to manage real estate, helps you with a lot of understanding of what's going on in the business, but it can also be a huge opportunity.

Speaker 2: 17:29

Cost Property management is really nothing to do with real estate at all, other than the fact that it happens to manage real estate right. It is a completely separate business that has all of its own issues, its own problems, staffing and all that. It's not free money. So that's where I say, unless you are really going lateral, unless you're really building your vertical let's say you're really building out your business model, I would stop managing after maybe 10, 20 units. After you do it for a year or two, get some experience, turn it over to a third party management company, manage the manager until you build a portfolio of about three, 400 units or so in a particular market or city.

Speaker 2: 18:12

Even Once you have a couple of hundred units in an area. Then you have an economy of scale and you can start hiring some bench talent. Then right Now you can bring on some people with skills, with a resume, and you put those people in place. Now you're bringing management in-house. So that's kind of an eclectic answer, I know, but that's where I say manage for a little while for the experience. Stop managing for a little while to avoid the opportunity cost. Build your portfolio, come back, bring management in-house later on in your career. That's what I would recommend.

Speaker 1: 18:43

So for a growing investor, getting your hands dirty and understanding the operation, focus on learning the data in-house of what it takes to actually manage your property and then ultimately to allow you to grow. You're going to have to offload that responsibility to get bigger deals, because if you're worried about the day-to-day operation, you can't focus on the finding the deals network, finding the money, because you mentioned hundreds of units, right, so I'm sure that's other people's money, so you need investors and things like that. So if you're worried about for a need and a repair at a unit, that's taking you away from getting in front of people, that can actually help propel your business. So it makes perfect sense.

Speaker 2: 19:36

I managed all the way through and I realized in that middle period how it really slowed me down. And I looked at other people that were non-managing and they did not understand their portfolio as well as I did and they did not understand operations as well as I did, but they also grew a portfolio faster than I did. So that's just been my takeaway from my own career.

Speaker 1: 19:57

My next question is around underwriting, so that kind of you know that cost. How do you incorporate that into your deal analysis?

Speaker 2: 20:07

Yeah, absolutely, it's really. It's really important. So when we talk about underwriting, it gets a little more complicated as you get more units, right. So when we're talking about houses maybe two units you're pretty much doing the 1% rule, 2%. You're saying, hey, does the run equal 1% or 2% of whatever it is the price? And then if you're saying, yes, it does, that's a good deal, we buy the deal.

Speaker 2: 20:27

Multifamily is a little more complicated not actually that much more complicated, but a little more. So when we get into a cap rates and things like that, what I will tell you about underwriting in multifamily really starts with the lending. So I'm assuming you know you're not paying all cash for real estate. I'm assuming you're going to go out at some point and get a mortgage, put some money down. Well, the underwriting then needs to be based on how the lender bank whomever is going to underwrite that deal. So you have to have an understanding of debt service coverage ratio loans. That's different kind of lending than consumer lending, right, and we have debt ratio loans over here. You have to have net worth equal to or greater than the loan amount. So what we want to do now is to take some of these parameters, so the things that the lender is definitely going to want to see, for example, a 1.25 debt service ratio right, they're going to want to see that.

Speaker 2: 21:21

So I'm going to use those lending parameters in my underwriting to backfill into a price and a value for the buyer, for the seller. So, as I'm looking at that deal and the seller wants a million dollars, I'm going to go in and plug in their income, their expenses, today's mortgage, and I'm going to say, okay, does this deal cash flow If I pay that price and I get a loan? You know I'm putting down a normal amount, or is my down payment 40 or 50% down? You know, does it cash flow? All these different things? So that's underwriting. And if you don't do that, then you're at best gambling. You really don't want to do that, right? So the risk is mitigated in the underwriting.

Speaker 1: 22:00

You know we can talk forever about commercial and its differences, but you know it's definitely the one I understand about it. It's more of a business, you know, because that net operating income is is what drives the value as opposed to. You know what's selling down the street. You know you and I can have completely different. You know why is that operating terms and we be two doors there, so that's definitely absolutely correct.

Speaker 2: 22:30

Yeah, I'm always telling everybody, multifamily is a complete split between asset and business. One side is the numbers, the operations, that is the business. The other side is the sticks, the bricks, the mud. There is a physical asset you have to go analyze. So we have two types of the financial business analysis and the physical, both separate.

Speaker 1: 22:49

When did it kick in that you wanted to actually you know teach people about real estate? But was that always the goal out the gate? Like, hey, I'm going to? Come in next earn and teach. Or did something flip, flip off.

Speaker 2: 23:00

No, no, it was not the goal out of the gate. I signed up for an individual and I joined their coaching program and I was a coach and I became successful and I closed about 100, 181 units. I think it was my first like two years, couple years as a student of this one particular program. And so they circled back around and said, hey, you know, we're looking for people to become coaches, are you interested? And I thought, yeah, why not? It would for you.

Speaker 2: 23:28

In the very beginning, I thought, okay, it's a good way to network and that that's what it's going to be for me is becoming a coach and teaching. I'm going to get out and be able to raise money better, I'll be networking, I'll meet more individuals. And whereas that was true, I actually realized I enjoyed teaching, I enjoyed coaching, and so ever since then, it's just something I've done in the background, it's something that I've done. You know times like now, I've liquidated the portfolio and I've sold and I'm looking to get back into the next year 2024, 2025, we're going to be back by it. So right now, I'm focused a little more on teaching, writing, writing a lot of articles, doing podcasts, because I have a lot more free time on my heads, the moment. But yeah, it's always something I've done in the background, but yeah, I enjoy it.

Speaker 1: 24:13

I mean, that's a great problem to have you know, to be able to say, hey, you know, take my gains when I can and then I can shift to another passion. So that's cool, so cool to see you for that. So how do you cheater your program to the individual? Yeah, what are some of the needs that you address for your students?

Speaker 2: 24:31

Yeah, what I'm going to do is I'm going to sit down, because I've been doing this for 20 years and I've been teaching for over 12 now. I have a system that I take the student through. So I'm going to sit down and I'm going to figure out where, through several things strengths and weaknesses, right, where do we work with, what do you have, what's the market you're in, what sort of you know things we have going forward, what sort of relationships do you have. So I'm going to help you sit down and kind of go through all of this. We're going to work out a map, figure out what strengths and weaknesses you have, what things you're working with, and then we're going to set up a plan for figuring out the right location and the right size asset for you, the individual, so it is not a one size fits all.

Speaker 2: 25:10

And then, once I've got you figured out okay, what are you trying to buy? Where are you trying to buy it we're then going to move into the. How are you going to pay for it? And so that's the again, those three systems, and that's what I'm going to build out for the individuals System on deal flow that fits you, system for a deal, analysis of whatever we're trying to look at and then, ultimately, how do we get you closing and getting you out there? You know networking and working with individuals that help you go to the next level. So that's what I do. I take my 20 years of experience and I'm my proven systems. You know I have education, I have the homework and the tests and I get all that stuff because I've been doing this for so long. So that's how I do it and you know I've heard every question out of the sun and had just about every problem a student can have with myself and worked with a thousand. I've had over 800 students so far, so almost a thousand students.

Speaker 1: 25:57

You bring up a good point about, based off the needs of that student, they may need to invest in an area that's not where they actually physically live. Is that? Is that the case?

Speaker 2: 26:11

Yeah, that is absolutely possible.

Speaker 2: 26:13

Yeah, yeah, when I first started with the student, I asked him two very quick questions, two things. The first call first time I talked to somebody, where do you live, what are you doing for a living? And when I'm asking or those questions are there so I was getting another student I'm asking what is your multifamily backyards Like you walk out your house, what are we looking at? Is it a good market, a tough market? And then, what do you do for a living? What I'm asking there is how flexible are you?

Speaker 2: 26:35

Because I know the individual, wherever you're starting from, you're going to have to travel outward to your area and meet realtors and build relationships and analyze deals and walk properties. And so, yeah, now you've got to take into the real factor of travel, time, life, family, and so we get into all this. On those calls and that's when I say Streets of Wings, is I mean down to that level of tell me about your life, tell me what you do it. You've got to pick a market that you can physically get to, because if you can't show up, you're wasting your time, right. And so, yeah, those are all things that I really custom fit each individual what's next.

Speaker 1: 27:10

So now that you have this time, you sold your property. So hopefully you know 2024, 25, it's a big year. So what's next? What's on the horizon for real estate?

Speaker 2: 27:19

Yeah, I'm working. I have two books. So real estate, wrong, creative cash, both on Amazon. I'm working on the third book now. I was going to be sort of more for the limited partner individuals, so working on another book. We're networking, networking like crazy. Right now. I see cash purchases with refinances in the future coming up. So that's what I'm doing right now is really education and doing a lot of that, but at the same time, heavy networking.

Speaker 2: 27:43

I think 2024 and 2025 are going to be tough on debt. I think lenders are going to be tight. I think they're not going to be lending as much, even if the interest rates come down, that a lot of the lenders. Their balance sheets are still going to be distressed for a little while, so that we're not going to have a lot of lending let up for the next two years, and so creative financing and cash are really going to move the market going forward. So I'm doing both looking for deals that I can use creative financing on, but also working behind the scenes, getting more partners, equity team members together, things like that. So what I want to do is to be able to go in and pick up some of these distressed assets that we're about to see and then refinance them in two, three years, two years, when the rates will go better. So that's the short term business.

Speaker 1: 28:26

In my area what you're familiar with, atlanta, you know I'm seeing these homes like brand new construction homes and they're actually building them to rent them and I just don't know how sustainable that is long term. Well, so.

Speaker 2: 28:41

so build for rent is different than just a portfolio of single family houses. If you said here is a bill for rent property, here's 20 houses, 30 houses on one piece of land being operated as a multi family property, they just happen to be houses in several apartments. Yes, now that I'm very interested in. Yeah, that's a great model, but not not so much on the let's go by 50 houses all around.

Speaker 2: 29:09

you know a lot of the town full of county not doing that bill for rent. So what you're talking about and is it sustainable?

Speaker 1: 29:15

Well see, my biggest concern is just how much for it they have to charge. You know, for these homes, Fair amount, that's scary, you know.

Speaker 2: 29:23

Yeah, what? The ones that I've seen that were really successful have a lot to do with school districts and the neighborhoods and things like that. Yeah, because you're building a very high rental base unit. I mean, again, if you're not familiar with bill for it, it's someone going in and buying a tract of land maybe five, 10, 20 acres, whatever putting a whole bunch of houses on it and renting out all the houses like an apartment complex. Right, you have a pool and a community center and an office, but it's housing.

Speaker 1: 29:50

Well, you know, we'll keep our eyes on it. You know, you know, if it materializes, great. I mean, more and more people are, you know, turned into lifetime renters at this point, so maybe it does work you know so.

Speaker 2: 30:03

Nobody wants to own anything.

Speaker 1: 30:05

That's right. So, you know, let's close this out. You know what? What final thoughts or piece of advice would you like to give to the audience About real estate investing? And then also, you know, let the audience know how they can contact you again, your website, social media. Just really appreciate you, thank you. Yeah, I'm wrong.

Speaker 2: 30:24

Yeah, what I would tell people right now is pretty much ignore most everything that I've told you on this, this podcast. It just gets started. No, I'm just kidding, but don't don't overthink it. Right? Don't listen to too much of this. You know market cycle and the world's doing this, the world's doing that. That's all well and good. Just get started.

Speaker 2: 30:42

It's always the right time to buy real estate. It's not always the right time to sell it, it's not always the right time to refinance it, but it is always the right time to buy a good deal. So you need to understand what a good deal is. That good deal can change, its definition can change depending on the market, but a good deal is always a good deal. So, yes, it's always time to get started and don't overthink the situation. Just get out there, find somebody to help you out and you can get COVID. That's what I'd recommend if I do. Yeah, reaching out to me Again, I have two books the creative cash in real estate raw, both on Amazon and my website is realestayrawcom. So if anybody wants more information about working with me, I have an education program. I will take you through everything you need to know to get started the business real estate rawcom and Bill Ham real estate on Facebook. I have a Facebook group as well, but that's pretty much it.

Speaker 2: 31:33

Yeah, real estate rawcom. Just hit that. If anybody needs anything for me, it's bill at go broadwellcom. That's my bill bill at go broadwell. B R O A T W L L, go broadwellcom. Yeah, reach out and be happy to talk to you, bill.

Speaker 1: 31:49

I'll include everything in the show notes so anyone who's listening or watching you know. Just check the description. You can definitely tap into Bill, and gave fantastic information. I really appreciate you joining the show.

Speaker 2: 32:02

Thanks for that.

Speaker 1: 32:04

Bill, your journey and insights are incredibly inspiring, offering a blueprint for success in this ever changing real estate market. So thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us and listeners. Make sure you reach out to Bill for his strategies and also to possibly transform your real estate journey. So visit real estate rawcom and for more enriching discussions, don't forget to hit up my website, moses the mentorcom, and also subscribe to Moses the mentor on YouTube. So here's to building your real estate empire, one investment at a time and until next time, peace.