Episode 7: Masking, Diagnosis & Finding Your Village - Lauren and Janine’s Parenting Journey

In this episode of Beyond the Spectrum - Conversations with Parents on Autism and Beyond, Clint chats with Lauren and Janine — two mums who migrated to Australia and are raising children with level 2 autism and ADHD.

They unpack:

• The reality of masking in girls and boys - and why it delays diagnosis
• Early supports that moved the needle - ECDP, Bush Kids, OT, speech, small schools
• Advocating in kindy and school - when to push, when to change environments
• Age-appropriate ways to talk to kids about diagnosis and self-advocacy
• The cost - financial strain, sibling dynamics, isolation, and nervous system overload
• Self-care that actually happens - micro-breaks at home, parent coaching, therapy assistants
• Building your ASD village - Facebook groups, local parents, therapists, and honest friendships
  
  

If you’re at the start of the journey or somewhere in the messy middle, this convo is full of practical tips, honest emotions, and the reminder to trust your gut - and find your people.

Listen, share, and tag someone who needs this today.

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Transcript

Clint: [00:00:00] Gday guys. Welcome to another episode of Beyond The Spectrum Podcast. I'm your host Clint, and joined with another two very special guests. So first time we've had multiple guests on at once. Let's see if I can handle this. Welcome to both of you. Tell us who you are and a little bit of about yourself. 

Janine: Oh, hi, I'm Janine.

Hi. Moved to Australia in 2019 from South Africa. With my young family. I've got two girls. I moved with a seven month old and a two and a half year old. They've grown up, we, they're now six and six and eight. And we started in Sydney. I moved to the sunny coast. I try my best to be a marketing consultant.

I pick up some remote work, but mostly I'm caring for my two. Children who have extra needs. And yeah, that's mostly what I spend my time doing. So that's me in a nutshell. 

Lauren: Over to you Lauren. I'm Lauren, and similar to Janine, my family moved here two and a half years ago, and we have a son who's [00:01:00] eight and a daughter who's six, both diagnosed level two autism and one diagnosed ADHD and the other.

Not yet, but suspected and yeah, my main role is caring for them and I do a bit of cleaning and support work on the side when I'm not running around after the two of them. Sounds like enough? 

Clint: Yeah. So I guess on your children at the ages they are they aware of their diagnosis?

Have you spoken about it, 

Janine: or, that's a really good question. So my youngest both my children, I haven't spoken about their diagnosis yet. So both my children have level two ASD diagnosis. The youngest was like, I started to realize there was something wrong. About two and a half. I was like, this is.

From two age two, two and a half. So she had, she went through multiple stages of getting to the diagnosis, but at age four the diagnosis was, it was ASD. We have suspected ADHD as well, but that hasn't been diagnosed yet. She's now six. And then my older daughter is eight. She actually was diagnosed [00:02:00] with ADHD first, and then now her ASD was diagnosed in November last year.

So we are seeing it like the way it came out was different. I think with diagnosis I'm open about how I speak about my children with diagnosis to other people. I think it's extremely helpful. A, I think it creates awareness. I think there are a lot more children out there that have, support needs and are not getting them because they're undiagnosed.

So I feel like it's really important to share. Stories with people out there, especially parents who don't know what to do and are experiencing similar things. So I'm open about it and I think there comes a point where you have to share that with your children as well. So probably in the last three months I've shared with my older daughter that she has an ADHD diagnosis and explaining a little bit about it and auto also like an autism diagnosis.

And and just extending to her a little bit about it, but that's age appropriate. So it's about coming up with the right timing. Explaining why she needs the supports, what, she's getting to that age where she's inquisitive. People might ask [00:03:00] questions and I want her to be prepared for that. And also to understand why therapies are important, why we spend a lot of time doing what we are doing.

So I think that if definitely is age appropriate and it needs to come in bite-size chunks and each parent would need to decide, how to do that. Have you never get that Lauren? 

Lauren: So my experience is very different to Janine's. We actually met in the reception area of a prep readiness program for our younger two.

We worked out that they went to the same kindie, but they were there on different days. So we got to chatting and I dunno why, but I just turned to Janine and asked if she was still grieving the diagnosis and she said, no, not at all. She said, I've been. I've been fighting for this for so long, and it just completely changed my perspective because in our case, our youngest was diagnosed at three and a half, and I felt like I was hit by a truck.

I did not see it coming. All of a sudden our world was just turned upside down. So really, yeah, it really opened my eyes to have a bit more [00:04:00] gratitude that we were lucky enough to be diagnosed so early and then similar again. My son was diagnosed ADHD first and then ASD after that.

So our girl I know they say that girls tend to mask a lot better, but in our case, our boy masks so much more than our daughter. Yeah, it's been a big learning curve. We didn't really know how to navigate it. To begin with, but over the years, with a lot of support from our therapists who have, recommended different books and resources that we could gently start introducing the concept to the kids.

Because my two started with global developmental delays. I'm sure a lot of parents, that's where the journey begins. They have quite a few comprehension challenges. So for me it was I didn't really know where to even start. So we. Bought a few books that were recommended and we just started the conversation.

And I remember one night we were sitting as a family and I said, oh, who in our family has autism? [00:05:00] And my daughter Phoebe turned around and went, not me like this. And we all just started laughing. So yeah, again, gently age appropriate and all the exact reason that I want my children to be able to advocate for themselves to put their hand up and say.

This is hard for me and I need help. So yeah, I think, but it's a tricky one to navigate,

Janine: Yeah, no, like there is a lot of stigma out there and there's a lot of often with the sitting with the parents rather than the kids. And also just. I think something else that we, that we encounter as well as both parents are not always on the same page.

So sharing diagnosis and speaking about it in the family setting is really tricky because my husband doesn't agree on the diagnosis, but they're there and they've been provided by, highly skilled medical professionals. So it's really hard to chat your kids about it when you're both not on the same page.

So I think that's something tough to navigate and you really have to be careful when you. Talking to your children about it. So yeah, just another thing to, to think about, [00:06:00] but I do have to, I do have to also say, sorry to interject. You're right. I feel like another reason to be open about the diagnosis is the best supports that I've got.

Not no. One child is the same as the other. The supports that work for one don't necessarily work for another. So I feel like the best information that I've gathered and the things that really work have come from my community of people that I've built up by being open about it. Yeah. So honestly, like Lauren's given me so much to think about and different things to try, but I've spoken to countless people and that's because, we're willing to talk about it.

Clint: Yeah. No, I love that. I just, I'm just curious, did you find that the whole Yeah, the whole thing about girls are harder to diagnose. Did you find that you had to fight harder for a diagnosis there, or was it 

Janine: Most definitely in my case, so both my children are incredibly intelligent. They don't have motor skill issues whatsoever, but they struggle emotionally and they struggle socially.

[00:07:00] And just any, it was a lot of like likes and sounds and noise and people looking at them, and people interacting with adults and just very high stimulus environments caused absolute fallouts. So the load was just too big, especially on my younger one. But a lot of what was happening, she masked incredibly well and it was me that sought.

So in the beginning it was really hard to advocate for her because I was the only one that was. Seeing it and she was taking that on me and I'd be looking after her and she would just suddenly just spin out of control. But I was the main person who'd seen it. But as I got more medical professionals on board and they did thorough testing and like things that didn't require my opinion at all, they were saying straight away, Janine, definitely we can see what you're seeing.

But where I struggled the most was actually in the school environment. Trying to advocate for my child when no one else saw it. But I needed supports for her, needed an NDIS plan and needed support in school. We had to, we had her at one of the kindies on the coast.

And I had to move her because they refused to give her [00:08:00] support in class. They refused to help. And they're like, there's nothing wrong with her. She's fine. So she would mask, mask and then break down. And then we just found like there were certain things you can fight and certain places to advocate, and then there are times when you just need to find a more suitable environment.

So we moved her to another kindie where she was given straight away. The teacher was like, oh, absolutely, we'll get a support worker in from you in for you in the class. She'll get supported. We'll start on shorter days where they just understood it and supported it was, and she flourished because she got gradual dazing, increasing in time. She had a support worker, she got removed from the environment, got the quiet time she needed, reap back into the environment. And honestly, without that, she wouldn't be mainstreaming in school right now. She's started in prep and she's on reduced days.

But without that support, she would, that initial support in the early years, she would've, I don't know where we would've been with her actually. She just wouldn't have fitted anyway. Yes. It's bit of an extension on the question you asked me, but

Clint: yeah, no, I was just wondering about that.

'cause because that's the [00:09:00] common thing is, the girls just coast on by 'cause they're so good at them masking and Yeah. Quite often it goes unnoticed for a lot of people. Yeah, 

Lauren: it's so interesting 'cause Janine and I have so many parallels with our children and with our experience and then lots of opposites too.

I look back and I see all these posts on, Facebook groups of parents on these wait lists and trying to get in front of someone, and I just think, oh my gosh, I'm, we are so lucky.

As lucky as you can be in a situation like that. It just, yeah, my, my gratitude just increased so much because, I was really guided so well through the process and fast tracked, like I think from the time I took Phoebe to the gp, I took her for a scratch on her face and it had been COVID, so no one had seen any doctors and the GP said, look, we haven't seen her in a long time.

Talk to me, tell me about what's happening. And it came to her speech and I said, oh, if you ask her a question, she'll. Repeat the question to you. And she said, so she's showing signs of Echo. And I said, echo [00:10:00] what? Okay. And she said, look, I would like her to be seen by a pediatrician. And I'm not even joking.

Within 12 weeks we had a diagnosis. Wow. From that first GP visit, it was fast and I wasn't ready. I wasn't prepared and spiraled terribly and had an amazing support network to lift me up and dropped dinners off when I couldn't even function. But yeah, looking back now that we're stronger and further through the journey.

So grateful. 

Clint: It's interesting, like how the, I guess the families who go, oh, something's not right and almost prepare for that. I think versus the, out of nowhere . kick in the guts. Is it like, what. 

Lauren: To be honest, I feel like I'm still grieving. I think it's a bit of a, a process, a bit of a rollercoaster.

Some days are good, some days are not so great. Our daughter just started prep as well, and she wouldn't be where she is without ECDP. That's a program that so many parents don't [00:11:00] seem to be aware of.

Clint: I, what's that one? ECDP? Was 

Lauren: it? Early Childhood Development Program. Oh and that was crucial in Phoebe's journey. And it was just one day a week, but they were just amazing. Yeah. And I had no idea that they even existed. But it was through Facebook groups and pages. 

Janine: Yeah. 

Lauren: And recommendations from other parents. On the same journey that you discover these things.

Janine: So my youngest daughter when she couldn't attend daycare and that was just evident she wasn't coping and couldn't, just didn't know really how we were gonna get her to separate from me and start getting into a school environment and getting some skills. So she started at the playgroup.

They've got a playgroup for young kids, so that's also something that parents don't necessarily know about. And they also couldn't see what I was seeing until they saw it. And then they were like, yeah, we see it, we get it. So she started on two hours two days a week, and then that [00:12:00] merged into one day, I think it landed up being a five hour day. So she started off at the Marucci Door branch and then moved to, she was there for six months and then moved to the Palm View State Special School has an ECDP preschool there, and she, without that, she wouldn't have mainstreamed and it was really amazing.

But the masking suddenly, all the masking that you're seeing, especially on a shorter day. Comes out on a longer day. Yeah, I just an encouragement for any parents out there who know, just like you were saying something not quite right, not sure what it is. If you are feeling that and you think there may be something not right and that should you or shouldn't you get a diagnosis, should you get some help?

Should you get some. Some support. Go out there and find out because your gut feeling is often right, and then it gets validated by, specialists who really understand and know what they're doing and your children get the supports that they need. Sometimes , there's a difference between level one ASD and you've got like quirky behavior and it's okay.

And your children's doing, just your child's doing just fine. And then you might find [00:13:00] yourself in an ASD level two situation where they're not fine and without supports, they're gonna really struggle and life will be hard. So I think follow your gut and yeah, really seek support if you feel like.

They would benefit from it. 

Clint: Yeah. Yeah, you, parent intuition and I think even if you are wrong, you have that peace of mind and you're it's yeah, we went down that track. We asked the questions. What's been the biggest challenges that you have faced in the journey so far?

Is it balancing the work? 

Janine: Where to begin the list is long. 

Clint: Not just one. 

Lauren: Lauren, do you wanna go first on this one? Aside from the obvious, financially it's so tough. We held both our children back from starting school essentially lost a year in earning capacity.

My husband has been unbelievably supportive, financially and allowed. Me to be at home. But financially it's been tough.

What else? I would say my two kids are very different in terms of their [00:14:00] traits. Navigating that sibling relationship my nervous system is shot. Just trying to, navigate their challenges And yeah, some, sometimes they're great and other times. It's just, oh my gosh. Can't yeah.

Being away from family just, and that, that sense of isolation, that can be tough. Just that lack of family support. Our move was scheduled for two months after. Phoebe got her diagnosis. So again, my husband said to me you say what you wanna do we either stay. And I said, no, we have to look at the mental wellbeing of our family as a whole, and the kids are thriving up here

And just the fear of the unknown. What, what's coming? I felt like I held my breath all of last year. I didn't wanna let go of preschool for her. . Not just being in that level two space not knowing if mainstream is gonna work. You can't, you've gotta make all these plans so that you can try and [00:15:00] avoid meltdowns and all the rest of it, but at the same time, you can't really plan for anything.

It's just forever changing. It's I feel like a lot of the time I'm in limbo land, just not knowing. . Trying to be as prepared as possible, but also being on call and flexible as well. Yeah, just and that loss of self, I feel like a totally different person.

Now as to what I was before this journey.. 

Janine: I think if I was to think about the big challenges, there's some that overlap with Lawrence, but I think that I keep expecting I'm gonna get my life back.

And somehow I'm gonna get to work again properly and I'm gonna get to do all these things. But I think the sacrifice from often a mother's perspective, not always like that in the family dynamic, I haven't been able to work properly, had a like fantastic career, was able to earn well. And I'm still not, and I don't think I will ever be able to, so I need to switch my perspective and know that I have to work remotely and I'm not gonna be able to earn what I would like to be earning.

And yeah, I, it just, my life is a lot about my kids and what they need, and [00:16:00] that's just. Accepting that's the way it is. The difficulties are that I carry the brunt of the emotional meltdown and , I am my two kids, person to go to but I'm also their first port of call when things go wrong and they're the first.

First one's to take it out on me as well. So because I understand them, it's a safe space for them to then take it out. So I think that's difficult. Navigating the school system was really tricky. What to do, where to go, how to find supports and mainstreaming was a huge issue for me, of my, for my youngest child, like how to get her the supports that she needs so that she could mainstream in school.

A lot of schools are not. Supporting kids with with disabilities as they could be. So I think it's really useful to, to know a bit about that. And know that small schools maybe have less resourcing, but larger schools that often you'd think weren't suitable for your child because they're bigger, actually have better resourcing and better, , supports for children with extra needs.

And my kids. [00:17:00] Far at a government school, which actually has better resourcing than the private schools did. I looked at it all. We started the transition from ECDP , and my daughter repeated, and then we started that transition a year in advance. I'd highly recommend starting to engage with the school that you're wanting to move to as soon as possible.

But you don't always know where that will be and if they'll be ready to mainstream. So it's a hard, but it's worth starting that transition early. So that really helped me. And our school has been incredibly supportive because we were also on the front foot. Other challenges, and for me, my biggest one is having a different opinion to my husband about our children's diagnosis and not being supported at all in that.

Respect. I do every appointment. I do every NDIS. Carer statement, payments the lot. So whilst my husband provides funding for it or has done till the NDIS plans kicked in, which I'm extremely grateful for, it's been a fight and just being on different pages for me as the hardest and not getting that emotional support that you need.

But I have a beautiful community [00:18:00] now of people who get it and understand me and a really good support network. So there are other ways of building that for yourself. I feel like quite a few challenges are also you can overcome them and just one day at a time.

Sometimes it's one minute at a time when things are so bad, you just think, oh, you know what? Have a cup of tea. Take a breath, pause. And a big learning is look after yourself, because in all of this, if you're not doing some self-care, even if it's a tiny little bit that's where things really go wrong.

If you're not good, your kids won't have your support. Absolutely. The one other challenge is getting access to supports.

Even if, you know you need a, I can't get a speech therapist at the moment for my youngest, and you have to lobby and lobby. But if you love right, and you kind, and talk to a receptionist like every second week, give them a call. Be kind, be nice, but just explain your situation Often that gets you what you, where you need to go.

So you have to be really persistent. Even if you don't have the energy, you have to find it and things get better when the supports are in place.

Clint: I love that. On the, my next question was the [00:19:00] self-care, because again I think I see it from, from the support side of things where I come in and. The parents are so focused on the kids and the old analogy, the plane's going down, you gotta put your oxygen mask on first.

Otherwise you're, I never understood that 

Lauren: until I had children. I was like, that's ridiculous. 

Clint: So what it is, if any, what are your, some of your quick, simple self-care tips? Is it reading a book or sitting outside or what can you squeeze in when you can? 

Lauren: My thing is op shopping. It's my zone out. Just find a bargain and yeah, I, it's something that I've been doing for a little while and really enjoy, and my other self-care is my husband always says to me, go get outta the house.

I'll handle the kids. I said, I actually love being at home and I'd love if you take the kids out and leave me here so I can potter and, put some music on and light a candle and just be in the space [00:20:00] without my nervous system, just, all over the place. , But I also only recently started doing some parent coaching sessions with a psychologist and also regular check-ins with my children's ot, and they have both.

Really assured me that they see how crucial it is for not only the children to be supported, but the parents equally as well, because the bulk of it is happening at home and we need to be supported in order to be able to help our children. So they really work on sort of regulation tools with me and just give that insight as to what might be behind the kids' behavior in that moment, because.

So easy to get caught up in that moment, and then after the fact you go, oh my gosh, they were hungry or they were tired, or they'd had a huge day, or they didn't sleep properly last night or so. I think if anyone has the ability to have check-ins with, a psychologist or your children's therapists to also support [00:21:00] you, it is absolutely life changing.

Yeah, 

Clint: for sure. Yeah. I love that. I something I've started do a couple times is, take the parents out for a coffee. You just, that coffee chat and, just let's step away from everything. Let's just catch up for a coffee and, do that non parenting thing.

And we, and 

Lauren: Janine and I do that together as well. We try, I'd say once a quarter. Yeah. We book in a dinner or a lunch where we just catch up. And I find that so beneficial. Yeah, that's definitely some self-care there as well. Found a good one. Very lucky. But yeah, it's all about building that community, finding your village, your ASD village specifically.

Janine: I think for me, the self-care things, in the beginning we had no money.

So a lot of parents will be struggling with the finances and it's a big impact, but there's a lot you can do for yourself for free. So I had to advocate hard in my household 'cause my husband provides financially and provided the full load for a long time or the bulk of it, which is a huge [00:22:00] contribution, which I really value.

But it, I also had to fight for me getting some downtime, me getting a walk with my dogs, me, getting out. So my be lab is walking my dogs at the beach, so I now have two days a week. Often it's only one, sometimes it's zero getting out and I get that time. Otherwise I just get out and 15 minutes.

Just get a walk, get, I think exercise is crucial. So all those things we know about a nice warm bath, just getting a beautiful cup of coffee, and just those 15 minutes to yourself, just take a chance to breathe. And then some more stuff like I have a psychologist that I've been seeing for the last three years and like Lauren, and I'll do a lot of parent sessions.

With the the specialist team psychologists and the OTs that the kids meet with and get a lot of support from them. But it's, I think having my own psychologist has been extremely helpful in this journey, especially where I felt like quite alone. And getting some guidance of how to navigate, how to self care, breathing, taking time out. Those things, those skills are being invaluable. And then just getting a dinner [00:23:00] or a lunch. If you can't, my kids can't separate from me easily. Often I'll say no Lauren, and I'll have plans to meet in the evening. I'll be like, my kids can't separate this week.

They just cannot do it. And we're like, great, we'll do a lunch. So it's just find a moment and book some things in the diary, even if they're far off. Yeah. So anything that you feel gives you that little bit of a breath of 

Lauren: breath. Absolutely. And I think also the occasional night or two away, like my husband and I have not had a night away since our son was born, so eight years.

We have always been the type of family that sort of divide and conquer. We prefer to have our children in our care if we can for majority of the time, especially in those earlier years where they're not quite able to communicate their needs. It's also something that I think a lot of parents can relate to.

I don't like to ask anyone because it is it's a bit of an extra load. So there's only a few people. Even my parents, I struggle. They're actually babysitting our kids. We're gonna Sydney tomorrow and they're babysitting tomorrow night, and my anxiety's a little, [00:24:00] they're six and eight and my parents keep reassuring me.

We've got this, we know your children so well and there couldn't be in safer hands. I think it's, yeah, relinquishing a little bit of that control in order to fill your own cup. So hopefully yeah a night or two away. If it's not together, then on your own or with a girlfriend or. It's so important.

Just to have more than a two hour timeframe of time out, yeah. Is really important. 

Janine: Something else that I did that was really helpful is my kids won't separate from me, so going out is a big deal. They'll their anxiety just goes off the scales and it's not even. Worth it. Like the one time I went for a walk and I went out the house, when my youngest found out that I'd gone round the block with the dog, I heard her screaming down the road on the other side of the block.

I could hear her. And that level of distress didn't make going for a walk worth it for me. But what I did find is getting a support worker in the home, getting a yes getting a therapy assistant. So your occupational therapist [00:25:00] for some people who don't know that can put a therapy assistant in your home and then having someone in the home.

So I could have a bath, have a cup of coffee, but not leave them. I was there. So that's also possible. There's all these things are possible and you find out by chatting to people and working things out. But that was how I got going with bit of self-care in the beginning. So yeah, I highly recommend that.

Clint: Good to see that you guys are looking after yourself the best that you can and looking fresh. Oh, it's mirrors. It's all smoke and mirrors 

I think I know the answer to the next question because I'm really smart, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. If parents or families were just starting on this journey, like they've just got the diagnosis, say yesterday or today, what would your advice be to them?

Lauren: Mine would be, don't do what I did, and that's. Try and do everything all at once and end up spiraling. Yeah, like I was Googling, what kind of job will my, ASD level two child have when they grow up? [00:26:00] Like I really spiraled, so don't do anything. Just be as a family. One thing that people said to me a lot was.

Your child is the exact same child they were yesterday as they are today. We thought without that diagnosis, that is your baby. And they are perfect. And sorry, it makes me a little bit emotional and take the support. I had friends drop dinners over and come and just clean the house.

Just lean on your support network if you have one. . It's so much easier said than done, but just try and, remember that it doesn't all have to be sorted.

And to be really gentle and kind to yourself and slowly build your village and yeah, find those supports. It's not urgent is my message, I'd say. Yeah, I think 

Janine: that's good advice. I think once you've already got to the diagnosis level, so we are talking like a little bit down the line.

One of the biggest pieces of advice that I'd like to share is getting NDIS support as soon as you possibly can. Yes. The wait times are now a lot [00:27:00] longer and you really have to lobby hard for support.. But your biggest step, even if you are seeking a diagnosis, is get on if your child is below the age of nine Bush kids. Bush kids, there's books. Phone them up, get on the wait list. You don't need a diagnosis to actually do that because that's your first step in getting NDAs funding. Both my kids are on the Bush Kids books and we'll move over 'cause my child, once they turn nine, they have to move to a different system.

. . So that would be my piece of advice. And then build as Lauren said, build that community around you. Whatever it looks like for you, you need support and the sooner that you get that around you. Whether it's your children's therapists or friends or community, and you educate yourself on the way that you want to, you equip yourself because it's a marathon, you have to gear yourself for the long haul.

So whatever, take a bit of time and get the steps in place. And ask lots of people, ask different people for their different perspectives. When I met Lauren in the waiting room of like at the, at our ot,

I said, have you heard about ECDP? And she's no. And suddenly there was this connection, [00:28:00] life changing. And then so shared knowledge. Yeah. We tapped into that a bit earlier. Yeah. 

Clint: Yeah. I love that. I think a story I heard was, I think it was one of the early Apollo missions on the way to moon onto, on the way to the moon. It was on track towards the moon, I think it was 3% of the time. So the rest of the time it was zigging and zagging. And I think that's a perfect analogy for. Kids probably all kids, you've got your target you think you're on track and then something happens and you're off track.

But it's always that zigzag and oh, we've gone too far over here. We need to come back here. And I think that fits well is like it was on track 3% of the time. It's always those corrections and as you said it's not a, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon . Are you guys happy , for me to share your details if anyone gets in touch just to help build their tribe or help connect? Absolutely. And every so often someone says, oh, I really wanna connect are you comfortable with me sharing your email?

And 

Lauren: most definitely, I [00:29:00] try really hard to be as active as I can on the ASD. Facebook pages when people asking questions or looking for recommendations. I feel it's almost my duty, as a fellow parent going through the same thing to share. And it brings me so much joy. I'm like, it might work for you, it might not, but at least you've got the option, and that's so fulfilling.. Unbelievably helpful to just pick the brains of parents that are a couple of years ahead of you, just so you can just get a bit of insight as to what it might look like and what they might need, the challenges you're gonna face.

That for me has been my number one mission. 

Janine: I'd definitely be happy to share my details, just. Don't take it personally if it takes a while to get back to me. Oh yeah. 'cause life is just, if I get sleep in the night, that is like a. Unheard of I'm juggling so much. So I think that's the other thing you need to know your, the group needs to be wide because everybody is so [00:30:00] stretched and understanding.

But yes, I also like Lauren, feel like it's a, it's an obligation and I'm happy to do it because I want to do it because I feel like it's liberating when you get that input into your life. 

Clint: Amazing. Alright. Thank you very much for your time. Yeah. I do value the time obviously to spend with me. It's so nice. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Good. And, thanks so much for giving, so many tips freely and yeah, I love how willing to share information and connect with people and I hopefully you guys hear it enough.

You're doing an amazing job as parents, keep it up.

So well done on that. , Thanks for your time. 

Lauren: Thanks Clint. And thanks for doing what you do. That's, it's amazing