The Addicted Psychopath: Lewis Raymond Taylor

The Addicted Psychopath - Lewis Raymond Taylor.

In this gripping episode of *Coming Clean with Me*, “The Addicted Psychopath” host Elliott Wald delves into the tumultuous life of Lewis Raymond Taylor, a man whose journey from a troubled youth to a successful entrepreneur is as harrowing as it is inspiring. Diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, Lewis candidly shares his experiences of growing up in an abusive environment, battling addiction, and his time in prison. Despite these challenges, he has transformed his life, founding a coaching company now valued at $25 million.

Lewis opens up about his childhood, marked by an alcoholic and abusive father, and how these early experiences led him to seek solace in alcohol and drugs. His story takes a dark turn as he recounts his time in prison and the violent altercations that landed him there. However, it is within these walls that Lewis experiences a profound realization: to change his life, he must change himself.

This episode explores the complexities of Lewis's personality, his struggles with addiction, and his eventual path to recovery and success. It is a testament to the power of self-awareness and the possibility of redemption, even for those who have been labeled as irredeemable. Join Elliot Ward as he unravels the layers of Lewis Raymond Taylor's life, revealing a narrative of resilience and transformation that challenges preconceived notions about psychopathy and addiction.

Contact Elliott directly on: 07875 751960 or find out more on his website:
https://www.hypnosis-expert.com/ADDICTION/

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:51 Lewis' Childhood
• 8:25 First Arrest
• 13:16 How The Addiction Started
• 23:56 Being Diagnosed With Bipolar Disorder
• 28:28 The Final Arrest
• 32:34 Stopping The Addiction With Structure Changes
• 36:11 Triggers For Relapse
• 44:52 Keeping Off The Rails
• 51:57 Success and Psychopathic Tendencies
• 53:00 Sex and Dopamine Levels
• 59:40 Coaching Masters
• 1:02:33 The Journey and Learning About Yourself

Transcript

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Hello, I'm Elliot Ward, addiction specialist.

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And welcome to another episode of Coming Clean with me.

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Joining me in the studio today is Lewis Raymond Taylor.

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Lewis was diagnosed with an antisocial personality disorder.

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Being emotionally unstable, logically ruthless,

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assertive, unemotional and lacking fear.

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All traits associate with a psychopath, and it's a label he seems to have embraced

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one that headline

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the recent Netflix documentary about him, The Psychopath Life Coach.

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Lewis grew up in an abusive environment and looking to escape,

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he found alcohol and cocaine and eventually found himself in prison.

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After beating his addictions,

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he started his own coaching company, which is now worth 25 million.

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Joining me as we peel back the layers.

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Welcome, Lewis.

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Thank you for joining me.

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Thank you very much, mate. Wow, wow.

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Lewis, tell me what it was like growing up for you.

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What was your childhood like?

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Give me a give me understanding.

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Yes. I think, a normal ish one to sort of people that hang around in this state,

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getting into trouble,

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lighting fires, criminal damage.

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just being a little bit of a lad.

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What sort of age was this?

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About 12.

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Oh, young.

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Yeah. Pretty young. Yeah, I did about 14.

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I was getting arrested at 13 and.

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Getting arrested for. At 13. Criminal damage mainly.

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I just like smashing windows for some reason.

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Okay.

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yeah. It's just take the,

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the hammer of the back of a bus.

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the emergency hammer was to just smash as many windows as I could possibly find.

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Okay, not sure why.

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I think it was a bit of a cry out for attention at the time, but,

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also get a bit of a thrill from it and a bit of a stimulation.

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I know now that I'm, you know, low on this emotional spectrum,

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and I think that I just wanted to feel something.

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I think even the adrenaline,

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that I was getting from that was,

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was some kind of sensation and fill in some kind of need or void,

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so I can look back on in hindsight,

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who knows at the time, what was that become of me as a kid?

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You know, he was expelled from school at 15

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and, Yeah, started just getting involved with drugs.

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This this is go back a bit.

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Yeah. Cause you grew up with an alcoholic father was.

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Yeah. Right. Yeah, it's quite abusive. Tell me about that.

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Yeah. So, I mean, it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

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I mean,

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I know people have a lot of worse upbringings

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when it comes down to this kind of stuff, but,

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it did hit me a couple of times, but it wasn't like, relentless.

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but to be honest,

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it was more the way he looked at me and the way he just didn't like me.

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Generally didn't like man enough to have. A relationship with you, dad.

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Now he's dead. Okay. Yeah.

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what were you then. 21? 21?

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So did you.

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As you grew up, did you develop a relationship with him or.

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No, not at all like I was.

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Yeah, okay.

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And I'm not sure why I did, like, why

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I mean, maybe he's kind of similar to me in my work,

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but this to sort of possibly

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I mean, some of the things he used to say were ruthless.

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Like, I remember I asked him once, what what do you think of family?

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And he said, well, they're just people.

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And I also said to him, what do you think happens after you die?

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And he says, when you're dead, you're dead.

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You know, he said, I was thinking that.

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But some of those things just stick out.

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You know, he's very, very ruthless and very cold and very.

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Do you think you can that challenges by taking the alcohol.

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100%. His mum died when he was 16.

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He. Yeah.

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He told me how his dad never told me. Why.

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and he disconnected from his entire family.

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So I didn't even know that you had two sides of a family.

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I just thought that I had one mum and dad one night and granddad,

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you know, because everyone. My mum should. Understand. That.

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And then when someone's told me that they had two narrow grinders.

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What do you mean you got two now?

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And then I realized, oh, I don't know any of my dad's side.

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so he was disconnected from his whole family,

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and he didn't have a problem with that.

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He left my stepsister when she was seven months old.

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Just walked out,

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started a new family with, with my mum.

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But, yeah, it was what things used to say to me.

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He's said, look at me in the face

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and just in utter disgust, you know, and say, you're a bit you're stupid.

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You never amount to anything.

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And from a young age, you know, you do believe that stuff as well.

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So if you got to base, if. You told something enough

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times, eventually you're going to start to believe it.

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Yeah, that's what happened. Right? Yeah.

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That was reinforced in other areas as well.

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Because, you know, if I get told that, then I go out and I cause trouble

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getting told by school I'm bad and getting told by,

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the community on bad and police on bad,

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and then eventually jail and a whole pattern of, my life.

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It's like you got given a label

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and then you did everything to make that label fit you.

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Yeah. Reinforce it. Yeah.

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And I believe that as well, you know.

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So and my behavior was obviously creating a cycle in which it,

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you know, justified it as well.

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I, I'm where did you at try and gain attention from what did

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you seek attention from.

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Well, it's started off in a, in a productive way.

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So when I was,

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about 7 or 8 years old, I got the idea that I wanted to be famous,

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and that was literally because I wanted to be seen and heard.

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And I just liked the idea of fame.

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I didn't, so I did acting and singing and dancing.

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I didn't particularly like any one of those more than the other,

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but I didn't mind them, quite enjoyed it,

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but I just wanted to be on stage or whatever.

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So I quite enjoyed that.

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And that actually gave me something.

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I was quite enjoying that.

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But then an outlet.

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Yeah, it was something and it was.

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No, it was more of a that because I haven't,

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I don't feel like I experienced love.

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So whether or not that was because my mum and dad didn't love me or I couldn't

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feel it, not hundred percent sure, but I don't think my dad loved me and my mum,

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you know, my mum did love me, but she didn't express it.

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So she was from a, a very, a military background with her mum and dad.

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So she, there was never any cuddles or I love you or so I was never told

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I was loved, I was never cuddled or asked how I was with my emotions.

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And the only emotion that was expressed in my household was anger.

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So my dad would have rage.

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But apart from that, it would just be, you know, don't cry, don't remember that.

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You know what you learn. Yeah. That's what you learn.

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Yeah. What's your relationship? Is your mum still alive? Yeah.

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And she was. Your relationship right. With your mum.

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No. She's definitely. Yeah.

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Well okay. Yeah.

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You're, she's she's she's come a long way.

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I think she's grown a lot as she's.

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Yeah.

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Gone through the journey and realized a few things.

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But yeah, the outlet at the time was the acting, singing and dancing.

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But then, I actually was sexually abused by one of the guys at the,

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When you were 11, right?

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When I was 11, we had around 10 or 11.

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Where was that?

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So I was at the stage school was at,

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and it was just one of the guys that was in there.

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It wasn't like a teacher or anything. It was one of the actual pupils.

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But he was, he was it was older than me, but I didn't realize how much older.

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I knew.

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There was an age gap, but it was just like a cool age gap at the time.

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Like, oh, the guy smoking weed, cool.

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Let's hang out.

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And, but then on reflection, how do I really gauge that age gap?

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He could have been actually older than I thought, so who knows?

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If he was like, I was 15, it could be 18, I don't know.

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But, anyway, invited me back to his house.

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I didn't think anything of it.

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And then climbed up on the top bunk.

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And, you know, the he did.

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At the time, I didn't really.

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And still to this day, I've never felt nothing for it.

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And I don't know

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if that's part of this disorder, of this complete emotional shut down.

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But you didn't feel one way or another about that.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I'm a bit confused at the time thinking

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what the fuck's happened, but it's not like

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I was sitting in the shower, you know,

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kind of like curled up thinking, oh, my God, I've been traumatized or abused.

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I was just like, that's fucking weird, you know?

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what was that all about?

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And then nothing really buried it.

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but I know it must have had some kind of impact

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because something significant like that almost certainly.

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Well, but yeah, I don't feel any particular way about it.

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And what led to your first arrest when you were 13 years old?

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A first dressed as a sit in make up, showing off.

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Dealing. Yeah. Showing off to the girls.

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Get me this, Lewis.

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Get me that Lewis. No worries. You know the.

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And then it was. Yeah. The criminal damage.

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And then first time

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I went to young offenders was, stole a van, crashed it, had some weight on me.

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Didn't have a license or insurance

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when the young offenders for three months.

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How many times you've been to y.

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I, twice.

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That was an interesting.

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Where was the second place?

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went to three.

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I went to Woodhill. Woodhill?

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Only. and.

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I think that was it for a while.

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And what was that like for you that young age?

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Woodhill was crazy because it was like that.

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Yeah, just close local to where I was from.

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So they shipped me there first before we categorize them. And,

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Yeah. interesting.

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Because obviously everyone's had to prove himself.

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And you got people in there for murder and stuff,

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and they're 18 years old, and they they've got nothing to lose whatsoever

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other than to build a reputation in prison.

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Is there anything they have? Exactly.

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So, yeah, that was that was an interesting time. But then when I came out,

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I just felt so are so untouchable.

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You know, I've, I've just been around all these, like, the worst people

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society has to offer, and and I've been for the punishment.

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You make friends that you kept after you came.

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Out of prison. no.

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No, but it was just.

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Yeah, I was, I kind of it was around the first thing someone asked you

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when you're in prison is what you feel.

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And my my crimes are like.

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Oh, so that was almost embarrassed by it. And,

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it sounds ridiculous, but, like, I consciously must have made

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a decision, like, next time I come in, I'm going to come in some decent, you know?

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So I left prison kind of thinking I right

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have I'm not going to commit, which is just ridiculous.

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But, because I had

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this need for significance and I've been looking at it from love.

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Didn't get it looking at from, you know, the actin lost.

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I've got a girlfriend.

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At one point, she told me she cheat on me

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and I slip my stroke about section of the mental health Act.

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So I. Yeah, know it jumped a bit there. You.

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I do know about this.

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And I was going to come and say because you grew up now

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you were going out with a girl. Yeah.

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So she decided the relationship was over.

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Well, she didn't necessarily decide that.

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But like, we was in relationship for a year,

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and I got drunk one night and I got bit mouthy.

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I can't remember really, but I was I know that I was

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obviously just starting an argument,

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and, she just told me she cheated on me, and it just hit me like,

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Yeah.

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Ton of bricks. Like, I felt loss, rejection.

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So in terms of emotions, I had them at that point, like at they came up then.

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I think that was kind of the nail.

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I think my emotions were kind of shutting down up until that age.

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and I was learning to kind of get through life without them because of the traumas.

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And I think that was the one that just went,

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because I felt it just hit and I felt everything else.

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So what did you do?

00:11:15:13 - 00:11:17:19
Well, I so, you know, the C read, I didn't

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actually c read, but I can understand what that is because I blacked out.

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I kind of went,

00:11:22:05 - 00:11:25:06
I don't know, a bit psychotic and just smashing up her kitchen.

00:11:25:18 - 00:11:28:18
I didn't really know what I was doing, but I was just to know.

00:11:28:24 - 00:11:30:22
And then I was in a frenzy and I pulled a draw out.

00:11:30:22 - 00:11:33:22
I come out as hinges, landed on the floor,

00:11:33:24 - 00:11:36:24
and then a six inch, six inch kitchen knife was just there.

00:11:37:17 - 00:11:42:00
And before I knew it, I just picked up and I didn't even realize what I'd done.

00:11:42:18 - 00:11:46:05
And then, went downstairs and I kind of passed out, and I clipped

00:11:46:05 - 00:11:47:24
like, an artery in my neck. Very fine.

00:11:47:24 - 00:11:50:04
You can barely see it, but there are scars there.

00:11:52:03 - 00:11:53:03
they're big, bulbous.

00:11:53:03 - 00:11:54:09
Did you know that?

00:11:54:09 - 00:11:56:23
Yeah. That's shit, man, did that not not right there and then.

00:11:56:23 - 00:11:59:23
But I tried to I didn't try, I ran out also,

00:12:00:17 - 00:12:02:13
because I wanted to, I was, I was hysterical.

00:12:02:13 - 00:12:04:02
I tried to fight the paramedics.

00:12:04:02 - 00:12:06:15
I didn't let them stitch me out there to put me down. In the end.

00:12:06:15 - 00:12:07:22
You'd been drinking, but.

00:12:07:22 - 00:12:09:23
Yeah. And I was like, let me die. And I was crying.

00:12:09:23 - 00:12:12:00
I was just destroyed, you know,

00:12:12:00 - 00:12:13:14
because I felt the rejection and the abandonment,

00:12:13:14 - 00:12:15:17
the loss, everything from her, but also my family,

00:12:15:17 - 00:12:17:09
because my family had cut me off by this point.

00:12:17:09 - 00:12:20:09
So we don't want anything to do with you because you keep on affecting the family.

00:12:21:12 - 00:12:24:05
and I just it just confirmed that I was this bad, unlovable kid.

00:12:24:05 - 00:12:27:24
I kept on being told my whole life, but with this new love, I kind of thought,

00:12:27:24 - 00:12:30:21
oh, maybe I am okay. But it was another confirmation. Like, I never,

00:12:32:04 - 00:12:33:21
you know, I I'm bad.

00:12:33:21 - 00:12:37:18
And, yeah, I ripped off the candles out and had Clara all over me with the

00:12:38:02 - 00:12:42:06
hospital gown and and ran up to her house, which probably wasn't the best idea.

00:12:42:16 - 00:12:45:00
Knocked on her door just because. I don't know.

00:12:45:00 - 00:12:48:00
I just wanted to say it because, I was in love.

00:12:48:03 - 00:12:50:17
And, How old were you?

00:12:50:17 - 00:12:53:13
I was 17 or 18. Okay, so first love.

00:12:53:13 - 00:12:54:24
First love. And it's hard. Yeah.

00:12:54:24 - 00:12:57:12
That one gets underestimated by a lot of people. I've had a lot of trauma.

00:12:57:12 - 00:13:00:13
That's probably gonna be one of my worst in terms of the way I've felt.

00:13:00:13 - 00:13:03:08
Anyway.

00:13:03:08 - 00:13:05:13
And, Yeah, she opened the door and I had nothing to say,

00:13:05:13 - 00:13:08:08
so I just stood at her blankly and I think scared the life out of us.

00:13:08:08 - 00:13:10:08
Just called the police and I got sectioned

00:13:10:08 - 00:13:13:08
up, and Orban's Albany Lodge stuck me in a padded room.

00:13:14:01 - 00:13:15:07
But then the next day, they just let me go.

00:13:16:09 - 00:13:19:09
And, When did you first start drinking and taking cocaine?

00:13:19:23 - 00:13:22:05
So drinking was quite early because it was not with my family,

00:13:22:05 - 00:13:23:03
like my dad was an alcoholic.

00:13:23:03 - 00:13:26:10
My mum drank a lot, so I started drinking at 16 without like, alcopops.

00:13:26:10 - 00:13:29:10
Smirnoff ice is down the pub or a down the park or

00:13:29:14 - 00:13:31:13
white light and inside a devil.

00:13:31:13 - 00:13:32:19
I don't think they made us glass,

00:13:32:19 - 00:13:35:10
but I don't think they make those bottles of alcopops anymore.

00:13:35:10 - 00:13:37:21
I think I know I haven't seen them, those wicked and.

00:13:37:21 - 00:13:39:20
Yeah. Bacardi Breezer.

00:13:39:20 - 00:13:41:21
I reckon they make Bacardi Breezer like those anymore.

00:13:41:21 - 00:13:42:23
And that's the reason why.

00:13:42:23 - 00:13:45:21
Yeah, yeah, they were nice. Yeah,

00:13:45:21 - 00:13:46:16
they said a fair few of them.

00:13:46:16 - 00:13:48:15
Oh, just a big bottle of cider. That'll do.

00:13:48:15 - 00:13:50:10
£2 back in the day.

00:13:50:10 - 00:13:52:10
3 or 4l of it. And

00:13:54:04 - 00:13:56:23
but that was just obviously recreational stupidity.

00:13:56:23 - 00:13:59:16
But then it started getting a bit worse.

00:13:59:16 - 00:14:02:10
around 17.

00:14:02:10 - 00:14:04:11
and by 18, obviously the nightclubs and stuff.

00:14:04:11 - 00:14:07:03
And then that's. Yeah. Was how you first started taking Coke.

00:14:07:03 - 00:14:09:20
That's when I started taking coke, and I was just started selling it as well,

00:14:09:20 - 00:14:12:20
actually start selling it exactly the same time I started taking it.

00:14:12:22 - 00:14:13:21
Okay. Let me understand.

00:14:13:21 - 00:14:16:04
You've never used it before.

00:14:16:04 - 00:14:19:08
Yeah, but you decide to sell it and use at the same time.

00:14:19:08 - 00:14:20:11
Yeah, well, my friends,

00:14:20:11 - 00:14:23:23
a couple of my mates were starting to sell it and I was thinking.

00:14:24:08 - 00:14:26:19
And I was also they would take it, taking it,

00:14:26:19 - 00:14:29:02
but I wasn't because I thought I knew what I was like.

00:14:29:02 - 00:14:32:19
My behavior at 16 years old, I used to drive around to the bookies

00:14:32:19 - 00:14:35:19
and watch people play the roulette just because I wanted to fucking watch,

00:14:36:00 - 00:14:38:24
because I was so obsessed with any, any, any form of addiction.

00:14:38:24 - 00:14:40:14
I'm just on it.

00:14:40:14 - 00:14:42:22
even with no money, I would just sit there for hours

00:14:42:22 - 00:14:45:08
just watching that fucking roulette wheel spin.

00:14:45:08 - 00:14:46:24
Slightly impulsive, right? Yeah.

00:14:46:24 - 00:14:48:09
And just anything I can do.

00:14:48:09 - 00:14:50:16
Anything to get that dopamine hit or to fill that void

00:14:50:16 - 00:14:54:04
or to feel something because I'm so feel like I'm so emotionally bankrupt,

00:14:54:17 - 00:14:57:12
I will use I, I'll use

00:14:57:12 - 00:14:59:19
whether it's a substance or it's a thing, I will try it.

00:14:59:19 - 00:15:03:10
And I knew if I touched that cocaine, now that's fucking game over.

00:15:03:10 - 00:15:07:11
So I did that for quite a few months and then but then they started selling

00:15:07:11 - 00:15:08:02
it and I thought,

00:15:09:02 - 00:15:10:18
you know, I've had it.

00:15:10:18 - 00:15:12:00
I've always had a business mind,

00:15:12:00 - 00:15:15:06
although, you know, back then it hadn't really materialized into anything.

00:15:15:18 - 00:15:18:12
But my mind kind of work that way.

00:15:18:12 - 00:15:20:22
So I just thought, well, I'm probably gonna start taking it now

00:15:20:22 - 00:15:22:02
and they're going to start selling it.

00:15:22:02 - 00:15:24:23
So I'd prefer to be one that sell it than them.

00:15:24:23 - 00:15:29:07
so I just bought some salsa and taken it and did it right.

00:15:29:07 - 00:15:31:06
You know, it was very small time drug data,

00:15:31:06 - 00:15:34:08
but at the time it was quite big for the little village that I was from,

00:15:35:07 - 00:15:36:14
making like a couple of grand a week.

00:15:36:14 - 00:15:39:14
Had a few lines, few people working for me, cutting it out.

00:15:39:15 - 00:15:41:11
So, you know, just some low level.

00:15:41:11 - 00:15:44:08
You've moved up a little bit. Yeah, a little bit like real runners.

00:15:44:08 - 00:15:47:07
I had a couple of runners in terms of like in the village.

00:15:47:07 - 00:15:49:04
So what are you buying houses at that point?

00:15:49:04 - 00:15:50:04
Yeah, a couple of houses.

00:15:50:04 - 00:15:52:16
But I also started selling methadone.

00:15:52:16 - 00:15:53:10
meow meow.

00:15:53:10 - 00:15:55:22
Okay. Yeah. And that was by big loads of that.

00:15:55:22 - 00:15:58:05
That was selling out in lumps,

00:15:58:05 - 00:16:00:21
getting like kilos of benzocaine and cutting it all up.

00:16:00:21 - 00:16:03:21
And when it was illegal, it was legal.

00:16:03:23 - 00:16:06:09
I used to start giving out fliers around the pub selling there.

00:16:06:09 - 00:16:07:04
Yeah, it was legal.

00:16:07:04 - 00:16:09:17
And then it, then it went to legal and I obviously I didn't give a shit.

00:16:09:17 - 00:16:11:04
So I'm like, I just don't keep selling it.

00:16:12:17 - 00:16:14:02
And you started using at this point.

00:16:14:02 - 00:16:14:16
Yeah. Yeah. No.

00:16:14:16 - 00:16:15:17
And then drugs got bad.

00:16:15:17 - 00:16:18:00
I was doing like four days in a row. No way. No sleep.

00:16:18:00 - 00:16:19:08
And you were a binge.

00:16:19:08 - 00:16:21:17
Yeah. So you did you start off as a binge watch.

00:16:21:17 - 00:16:23:06
It progressed to becoming a binge.

00:16:23:06 - 00:16:27:24
I used to be like, one night out and a night until 6 a.m.

00:16:27:24 - 00:16:30:00
and the birds come out, and then I'd be like all depressed.

00:16:30:00 - 00:16:32:10
Birds, as in the girls or the birds. Between the.

00:16:32:10 - 00:16:34:00
Chicken. Yeah, yeah.

00:16:34:00 - 00:16:36:18
So you'd be out getting on at some six clock in the morning.

00:16:36:18 - 00:16:39:00
It's a social thing. It's. Yeah. Then what happened?

00:16:39:00 - 00:16:41:10
And then the meow meow.

00:16:41:10 - 00:16:43:10
That seemed to have less of a come down.

00:16:43:10 - 00:16:45:13
So the tweet tweet didn't didn't put me off.

00:16:45:13 - 00:16:46:23
It was like, oh the shops are open.

00:16:46:23 - 00:16:49:23
I'm gonna go get another bottle and another pack of fags.

00:16:50:09 - 00:16:51:18
and then it turned into four days.

00:16:51:18 - 00:16:52:09
And then it used to

00:16:52:09 - 00:16:56:04
it was just a case of until my buddy body shut down, like I'd start hallucinating,

00:16:56:04 - 00:16:57:20
and then I would start to, like, get to the point where

00:16:57:20 - 00:17:00:15
I just couldn't actually function, and then I'd crash.

00:17:00:15 - 00:17:02:13
Was this on your own? Were you doing this on your own or with.

00:17:02:13 - 00:17:04:18
No. I would be like group sessions.

00:17:04:18 - 00:17:06:12
I'd make money as well because I'd be the one selling that.

00:17:06:12 - 00:17:10:02
So I just have this load of drugs and then people would be coming in and out

00:17:10:06 - 00:17:13:07
different groups of people, but I would be the one remaining out

00:17:14:01 - 00:17:16:21
and, I finished, you know, finish a four day session in May.

00:17:16:21 - 00:17:17:24
Couple of grand. You know, I was, I.

00:17:19:04 - 00:17:21:03
you were expelled from school 15 years.

00:17:21:03 - 00:17:22:23
Yeah. Well, how did that come about?

00:17:22:23 - 00:17:24:06
Oh, I've always been a naughty kid.

00:17:24:06 - 00:17:27:02
Like, even in primary school, I was almost expelled.

00:17:27:02 - 00:17:29:13
just never.

00:17:29:13 - 00:17:29:19
I've.

00:17:29:19 - 00:17:33:08
Something I've never understood is the, hierarchy of authority.

00:17:33:08 - 00:17:36:08
I just don't get it. So now,

00:17:36:20 - 00:17:38:16
that understand how people put so much power

00:17:38:16 - 00:17:41:16
and weight on other people when they are just people?

00:17:42:01 - 00:17:43:10
something I just can't quite get my head around.

00:17:43:10 - 00:17:46:10
But it was a it was actually written in my,

00:17:47:20 - 00:17:49:17
when I got expelled in the letter,

00:17:49:17 - 00:17:52:06
the exact words Lewis is expelled

00:17:52:06 - 00:17:55:06
for refusing to accept the authority of stuff

00:17:55:11 - 00:17:58:11
because I would just not listen and just not do what they said.

00:17:58:24 - 00:18:00:22
continuously.

00:18:00:22 - 00:18:02:16
you just didn't like authority? No.

00:18:02:16 - 00:18:03:23
And it's what it sent me later on in life.

00:18:03:23 - 00:18:05:13
Because it means I could have taken my own path

00:18:05:13 - 00:18:06:14
and I haven't, you know, felt

00:18:06:14 - 00:18:09:18
the need to take these traditional routes that people feel like they're pigeonholed

00:18:09:18 - 00:18:13:22
into unnecessarily is beneficial or for a lot of time beneficial.

00:18:15:02 - 00:18:17:16
But, yeah, I mean, loads of things happened in school,

00:18:17:16 - 00:18:20:19
but the final piece was just made for refusing to cooperate.

00:18:21:14 - 00:18:24:14
And then you started to to kind of like,

00:18:24:18 - 00:18:27:04
enjoy the violence, enjoy the crime.

00:18:27:04 - 00:18:30:09
Well, actually, at first I used to not get, I wasn't violent,

00:18:30:09 - 00:18:33:09
so I didn't throw my first punch until I was,

00:18:34:01 - 00:18:35:16
around 17.

00:18:35:16 - 00:18:36:23
I used to get jumped a lot.

00:18:36:23 - 00:18:38:13
So when my dad hit me, I used to freeze.

00:18:38:13 - 00:18:40:18
When I got that sexual abuse that time, I froze.

00:18:40:18 - 00:18:45:07
So I got into this sort of freeze mode and and I was skinny as well,

00:18:45:21 - 00:18:48:08
and I'd never I wasn't so I wasn't the big hard man.

00:18:48:08 - 00:18:51:13
So the only thing I had to my name was kind of the crazy guy.

00:18:51:13 - 00:18:53:14
So I was okay, crazy cocky Larry.

00:18:53:14 - 00:18:55:14
So I would I would get crazy popularity people

00:18:55:14 - 00:18:57:21
and they would jump me and I would just lie on the floor,

00:18:57:21 - 00:19:00:04
let me, me, and then stand back up and start laughing.

00:19:00:04 - 00:19:01:11
And I wouldn't fight back.

00:19:01:11 - 00:19:03:18
And that was my thing at the time.

00:19:03:18 - 00:19:06:18
And then, there was one night in a nightclub

00:19:06:21 - 00:19:10:09
where I just came up to a guy that a jumped me previously,

00:19:10:20 - 00:19:13:17
and, it's kind of like how I slipped my throat that time.

00:19:13:17 - 00:19:16:00
I just involuntary didn't think about it at all.

00:19:16:00 - 00:19:18:11
Is it actually an accident or subconscious?

00:19:18:11 - 00:19:21:05
Something happened, and I just punched him in the face,

00:19:21:05 - 00:19:22:20
and I just don't fucking know what I just done.

00:19:24:03 - 00:19:26:20
And then I got into a fight, and I kind of won that fight,

00:19:26:20 - 00:19:30:00
and I got kicked out by the bouncers, and I just thought, I've just felt powerful.

00:19:30:00 - 00:19:30:24
I just thought, wow.

00:19:30:24 - 00:19:33:02
This is it. That was your new drug. This is it.

00:19:33:02 - 00:19:35:09
So I've been looking for I've been looking at fucking all these areas.

00:19:35:09 - 00:19:36:21
And it was didn't hit the didn't hear.

00:19:36:21 - 00:19:37:23
But this hits it like.

00:19:37:23 - 00:19:40:23
This I mean I it's interesting because I've got a couple of clients

00:19:41:01 - 00:19:44:13
at the moment for cocaine addiction and specifically one of them

00:19:45:21 - 00:19:46:11
he's quite young.

00:19:46:11 - 00:19:49:11
He's in his 20s and he runs the youth

00:19:49:19 - 00:19:52:22
side of the football hooligans and lives

00:19:52:22 - 00:19:56:05
for the violence, loves the violence, is highly addicted to the violence.

00:19:56:10 - 00:19:57:03
And that was you.

00:19:57:03 - 00:19:58:09
You got through from it?

00:19:58:09 - 00:20:01:02
Yeah. In fact, you were a thrill seeker. Yeah.

00:20:02:02 - 00:20:04:02
And then tell me,

00:20:04:02 - 00:20:07:02
how often were you using the coke?

00:20:07:12 - 00:20:10:08
It would be four days every week.

00:20:10:08 - 00:20:14:01
That'd be four days on, three days off to recover and kind of get mad straight.

00:20:14:01 - 00:20:14:07
And then.

00:20:14:07 - 00:20:15:09
It was a four day binge.

00:20:15:09 - 00:20:17:10
Four dive engine and three days of recovery.

00:20:17:10 - 00:20:20:10
And then four days a week on there for like seven years.

00:20:20:10 - 00:20:21:18
For the last seven years.

00:20:21:18 - 00:20:23:16
That was the no, no, it was seven years.

00:20:23:16 - 00:20:27:00
And the unresolved grief of your dad's death in the past, abuse

00:20:27:00 - 00:20:30:00
inflicted on you sent you to self-destruction mode.

00:20:30:08 - 00:20:32:11
you became a rep in in Napa.

00:20:32:11 - 00:20:34:04
Yeah, yeah. So that was one of my.

00:20:34:04 - 00:20:37:18
So one of the fights I had, I broke my jaw.

00:20:38:23 - 00:20:42:24
I've had my jaw broken, teeth knocked out of a knife, all sorts of crazy things.

00:20:43:11 - 00:20:46:11
But, one of the times that my jaw actually hanging off

00:20:46:23 - 00:20:49:22
and as a part of that operation or something that happened during that time,

00:20:49:22 - 00:20:53:15
I can't remember exactly what it was, but they I tore my gullet and,

00:20:54:07 - 00:20:57:24
I started having this expanded chest, and then my voice went, oh, funny.

00:20:58:09 - 00:21:01:09
And, then I was sick and dizzy and stuff.

00:21:01:09 - 00:21:05:03
And then I went into the ambulance and they, I said I'd surgical emphysema.

00:21:05:13 - 00:21:06:06
Said, what the hell was that?

00:21:06:06 - 00:21:08:04
And they said, basically, there's there's air that's

00:21:08:04 - 00:21:11:07
going around your chest, in your heart, and it's coming through your esophagus.

00:21:11:07 - 00:21:12:09
And it will continue to do that

00:21:12:09 - 00:21:15:11
to puts pressure on your heart, lungs until your heart and lungs

00:21:15:11 - 00:21:18:01
will put too much pressure. You'll die was like, okay,

00:21:19:10 - 00:21:21:02
sitting kedo it's a crazy thing.

00:21:21:02 - 00:21:23:13
Like I couldn't care less.

00:21:23:13 - 00:21:26:13
and they said, we're gonna have to do an operation

00:21:26:19 - 00:21:29:07
and there's a 30% chance of mortality.

00:21:29:07 - 00:21:30:19
You have to sign this waiver to say that

00:21:30:19 - 00:21:32:19
if we did this operation, the third child should die.

00:21:32:19 - 00:21:35:13
But even if you survive, you're going to be intensive care for six months.

00:21:35:13 - 00:21:38:04
We're gonna have to put a tube in your throat so you can breathe.

00:21:38:04 - 00:21:41:04
Tube in your, bowels so you can eat.

00:21:41:20 - 00:21:43:08
and I think there. Was.

00:21:43:08 - 00:21:44:10
A tear in the gullet.

00:21:44:10 - 00:21:45:09
Okay.

00:21:45:09 - 00:21:48:12
And, and a colostomy bag, and they said it's for six month.

00:21:48:12 - 00:21:52:14
It should be in intensive care so that that that, gullet could heal without any.

00:21:52:14 - 00:21:54:14
Because if anything goes in, it gets infected. You die

00:21:55:14 - 00:21:57:08
as a cool, No worries.

00:21:57:08 - 00:22:00:08
And they sign a paperwork, and then,

00:22:00:20 - 00:22:01:19
I was like, no regrets.

00:22:01:19 - 00:22:02:22
So I took a picture like that.

00:22:02:22 - 00:22:03:21
That's taken care.

00:22:03:21 - 00:22:07:01
And, And I said, if I get out of this, I want to travel

00:22:07:14 - 00:22:10:05
because I want to live my life more because I've just been in the kitchen

00:22:10:05 - 00:22:12:13
so I can get in on the session for the last seven years.

00:22:12:13 - 00:22:13:20
I think I can do a bit better than this.

00:22:13:20 - 00:22:16:23
So when I travel, had dreams of all sorts of travel in Asia

00:22:16:23 - 00:22:19:23
and all sorts of things, but it didn't quite materialize like that.

00:22:20:08 - 00:22:23:01
But anyway, I when I am, and this is another sort of interesting thing

00:22:23:01 - 00:22:25:19
with the anti-social personality disorder, which we'll have to touch.

00:22:25:19 - 00:22:29:14
but one of the interesting things about people that get analyzed with having,

00:22:31:15 - 00:22:33:24
psychopathy is,

00:22:33:24 - 00:22:37:24
when they are presented with high stress situations or,

00:22:39:00 - 00:22:43:05
even very, violent or extreme situations, like seeing dead bodies

00:22:43:05 - 00:22:46:05
or things like that, that they don't just normal,

00:22:46:05 - 00:22:49:05
normal people's spike and, you know, they their heart goes up.

00:22:49:07 - 00:22:51:24
Psychopaths don't just stop, go steady.

00:22:51:24 - 00:22:53:20
They actually they actually lower.

00:22:53:20 - 00:22:56:04
They actually become calm, okay?

00:22:56:04 - 00:22:59:15
Because they, they I don't know, they just it's just the way their brain works.

00:22:59:15 - 00:23:02:22
It just they, they learn to adapt, to be able to cope with those scenarios.

00:23:02:22 - 00:23:05:15
That's why they're quite good in high stress situations.

00:23:05:15 - 00:23:11:07
So military or politicians or CEOs, 33% of CEOs, psychopaths,

00:23:12:00 - 00:23:14:08
because they don't just thrive in that environment.

00:23:14:08 - 00:23:16:08
They're actually in their element in that.

00:23:16:08 - 00:23:18:12
And 43% of CEOs are psychopaths.

00:23:18:12 - 00:23:21:09
Yeah. That's a that's a real. I haven't read that.

00:23:21:09 - 00:23:22:06
Yeah they are.

00:23:22:06 - 00:23:26:17
But if that's a source that's likable then that's very interesting.

00:23:26:17 - 00:23:27:15
Yeah.

00:23:27:15 - 00:23:32:01
And so yeah, I went to I thought I'd go to like Napa and Magaluf

00:23:32:01 - 00:23:34:19
and stuff like that on my way through to Thailand and stuff,

00:23:34:19 - 00:23:37:20
but it ended up just being chaos because I took myself with me,

00:23:39:02 - 00:23:41:09
you know, and I was just as.

00:23:41:09 - 00:23:43:16
Yeah, it was obviously a recipe for, for disaster.

00:23:43:16 - 00:23:47:09
I just started drinking, waking up, drinking, fighting.

00:23:47:14 - 00:23:49:23
And I was just. Yeah, it was just absolute chaos.

00:23:49:23 - 00:23:51:03
I won't go into all the war stories

00:23:51:03 - 00:23:53:14
of all the crazy young behavior, but you can just imagine.

00:23:53:14 - 00:23:55:05
Oh, that's a question later on. Don't worry.

00:23:55:05 - 00:23:55:12
I was,

00:23:55:12 - 00:23:59:01
I guess that person, you were diagnosed with the bipolar disorder,

00:23:59:07 - 00:24:01:20
and then you put a nice anti-psychotic medication.

00:24:01:20 - 00:24:04:20
Yeah. So before that. So when I was,

00:24:05:06 - 00:24:08:04
so I, I was alleged to have to say,

00:24:08:04 - 00:24:12:04
you know, to hit someone with a bottle in a nightclub and bit his abdomen.

00:24:12:04 - 00:24:15:04
And I also then got in a fight with four guys, me and my friend.

00:24:15:07 - 00:24:18:16
So at one point I had five GBH and an affray.

00:24:19:08 - 00:24:22:09
And, I was looking at, eight years in prison

00:24:22:22 - 00:24:26:04
and even my probation officer was recommended me at the time for a nip,

00:24:26:06 - 00:24:28:21
which is an indefinite public protection order, which is a life sentence.

00:24:28:21 - 00:24:30:21
And I didn't even know what it was, and I didn't care.

00:24:30:21 - 00:24:32:15
And she was I've just. They've just stopped IPA.

00:24:32:15 - 00:24:33:13
They've abolished them. No.

00:24:33:13 - 00:24:38:13
The Polish types, although people on IEPs currently are still serving their term.

00:24:38:13 - 00:24:40:22
Yeah. I haven't looked to them yet. So yeah that's it.

00:24:40:22 - 00:24:43:09
But I would still be in. I'd still be in if I'd have had one of those.

00:24:43:09 - 00:24:46:09
But at the time I had no idea what it was, so I couldn't care less.

00:24:46:20 - 00:24:51:02
And, my probation when you go for a pre-sentence report before court,

00:24:51:22 - 00:24:52:22
you know, everybody knows

00:24:52:22 - 00:24:56:20
go on your best behavior and, you know, hopefully you might get a better sentence.

00:24:57:04 - 00:24:58:17
I hope I did the complete opposite.

00:24:58:17 - 00:25:00:18
So I, I just couldn't care less.

00:25:00:18 - 00:25:02:09
And she said you not care about all the time

00:25:02:09 - 00:25:04:14
you're going to do I said no, I don't care about the victims.

00:25:04:14 - 00:25:06:00
No. And

00:25:07:19 - 00:25:09:15
yeah, she wrote out the worst probate

00:25:09:15 - 00:25:12:15
pre-sentence report you can imagine, then sent me for the psychiatric assessment.

00:25:12:22 - 00:25:14:16
And the psychiatric assessment was the first one

00:25:14:16 - 00:25:17:16
that diagnosed me with the antisocial personality disorder.

00:25:17:17 - 00:25:19:19
I just disregarded that and just thought, well,

00:25:19:19 - 00:25:21:24
you obviously think that because I've just done all these things.

00:25:21:24 - 00:25:22:09
Do you think.

00:25:22:09 - 00:25:24:21
Do you think that using the cocaine

00:25:24:21 - 00:25:28:20
we attributed to the psychotic and, and psychopaths behavior

00:25:28:23 - 00:25:30:15
and there's a real before before we was that?

00:25:30:15 - 00:25:33:15
Let me explain this, that I actually know someone,

00:25:34:08 - 00:25:38:16
very well indeed, actually, who got into using cocaine

00:25:38:21 - 00:25:42:06
quite a number of years ago, socially, as most people do.

00:25:42:06 - 00:25:44:21
And it became more and more frequently,

00:25:44:21 - 00:25:48:09
and it got him so much that he became slightly psychopath.

00:25:48:09 - 00:25:51:16
In fact, he ended up chopping up his landlord,

00:25:52:01 - 00:25:55:05
putting the body parts in his car and driving around the country,

00:25:55:05 - 00:25:56:13
throwing a leg out, an arm out.

00:25:56:13 - 00:25:58:13
And I think he's serving 35 years.

00:25:58:13 - 00:26:00:08
I suppose that's slightly for a slightly.

00:26:00:08 - 00:26:03:08
I consider a psychopath, but I know for a fact

00:26:03:08 - 00:26:05:05
I've known this guy for like 30 years.

00:26:05:05 - 00:26:06:03
But I know for a fact

00:26:06:03 - 00:26:09:03
before I knew him, way before we ever did a line that way before that.

00:26:09:13 - 00:26:13:02
And I'm can tell you this change this person from the person

00:26:13:02 - 00:26:15:06
he was to a person who was able to chop up a body

00:26:15:06 - 00:26:17:20
and throw body parts out of the car, drive around the country.

00:26:17:20 - 00:26:22:08
Do you think your usage attributes it to where you are now?

00:26:23:00 - 00:26:26:24
It definitely attribute to it with if it was, a cause of it, I don't know.

00:26:26:24 - 00:26:31:14
I think it, I think there's a potential for it to be underlying and, you know,

00:26:33:06 - 00:26:34:06
do you inhibitions to be

00:26:34:06 - 00:26:37:20
completely removed when you are under the influence of certain things?

00:26:38:14 - 00:26:40:11
impulse control is gone, you know?

00:26:40:11 - 00:26:45:06
So is this guy probably had the ability to cut someone up if he had to.

00:26:45:06 - 00:26:48:15
That was, you know, logical and sensible enough to not,

00:26:50:16 - 00:26:53:16
but, under the influence and, you know,

00:26:55:10 - 00:26:58:11
probably has more of a chance of been able to do that, so who knows.

00:26:58:11 - 00:27:00:13
Yeah, it definitely has an influence for sure.

00:27:00:13 - 00:27:03:13
And then it was yeah, it was a few years later when I,

00:27:03:24 - 00:27:05:07
I went for another assessment.

00:27:05:07 - 00:27:06:24
And then, then they, they said bipolar.

00:27:06:24 - 00:27:08:07
But that one was completely wrong.

00:27:08:07 - 00:27:10:11
That was just because I was up and down.

00:27:10:11 - 00:27:11:19
Drugs come down.

00:27:11:19 - 00:27:13:23
I mean, of course I was going to show symptoms of bipolar.

00:27:14:22 - 00:27:16:08
I was on drugs off at the time,

00:27:16:08 - 00:27:17:16
but they just look at it on paper

00:27:17:16 - 00:27:19:20
and they took the symptoms list and then they, you know,

00:27:19:20 - 00:27:22:08
but the antipsychotics give me seizures right away.

00:27:22:08 - 00:27:23:19
So that's epileptic. Yeah.

00:27:23:19 - 00:27:27:12
So I didn't know that at the time, but so I stopped taking that

00:27:27:19 - 00:27:28:22
then they had made me feel like a zombie.

00:27:28:22 - 00:27:31:00
Anyway. You're not taking any medication. No.

00:27:31:00 - 00:27:31:14
Not for that.

00:27:31:14 - 00:27:34:14
No, I do take for epilepsy, but,

00:27:35:14 - 00:27:38:13
Yeah, I took him literally for a couple of days and fell like a zombie.

00:27:38:13 - 00:27:40:03
And then the decision was, I'm not taking that.

00:27:40:03 - 00:27:42:00
Well,

00:27:42:00 - 00:27:44:04
and then I got another, and then in prison,

00:27:44:04 - 00:27:45:01
I did another assessment,

00:27:45:01 - 00:27:46:21
and they diagnosed me with an emotionally unstable

00:27:46:21 - 00:27:48:21
personality disorder, which is, borderline.

00:27:48:21 - 00:27:52:06
So it's like, now I've got a triple, so one of them's one of them's got me wrong.

00:27:52:08 - 00:27:54:04
I can't have all three. Surely. But maybe I'll do it.

00:27:54:04 - 00:27:55:24
I don't know, I don't think I do.

00:27:55:24 - 00:27:58:21
I think the only one that's close is the antisocial personality disorder.

00:27:58:21 - 00:28:01:18
And the reason I say that is because at the time, I thought it was nonsense.

00:28:01:18 - 00:28:04:14
Because it was the things I was doing. It was a lifestyle was leading.

00:28:04:14 - 00:28:09:00
But now I've changed my life and I don't do those crazy things anymore.

00:28:09:00 - 00:28:11:24
Actually, most of those traits are actually still there,

00:28:11:24 - 00:28:14:02
but I just channeled them in different areas.

00:28:14:02 - 00:28:14:14
Right.

00:28:14:14 - 00:28:18:13
But the way that I fundamentally feel pretty similar then to now,

00:28:19:13 - 00:28:20:21
I just outwardly do different things,

00:28:20:21 - 00:28:23:21
and I've learned to control my behavior, and I know what's right and what's wrong.

00:28:24:22 - 00:28:28:10
but I could still identify with quite a lot of the things that were in that I.

00:28:28:11 - 00:28:31:14
What tragic event led to your last final imprisonment?

00:28:32:19 - 00:28:37:09
So I was in a taxi queue, drunk, coked up for 4 a.m..

00:28:37:10 - 00:28:41:24
Last sort of taxis home kind of thing, and jumped to the front of the taxi queue

00:28:42:12 - 00:28:45:24
and, guy started shouting and screaming in my face

00:28:46:22 - 00:28:49:07
and, it's no excuse for it at all.

00:28:49:07 - 00:28:51:06
But this is genuinely what happened.

00:28:51:06 - 00:28:55:22
I just remember, even now, to this day, my dad grabbed me by the throat.

00:28:55:22 - 00:28:56:21
I can't even remember.

00:28:56:21 - 00:28:59:08
I don't even know what this guy looked like. I can just think of my dad.

00:29:01:11 - 00:29:04:21
I wasn't usually triggered like that because usually it wasn't this.

00:29:04:21 - 00:29:05:22
This guy was actually older.

00:29:05:22 - 00:29:07:07
I was 24 at the time.

00:29:07:07 - 00:29:10:07
This guy was 40. So,

00:29:10:07 - 00:29:12:00
but usually I would fight people my age,

00:29:12:00 - 00:29:15:00
you know, in the clubs and what have you. But,

00:29:15:21 - 00:29:17:19
so I wasn't usually triggered in that way.

00:29:17:19 - 00:29:20:19
But that particular time, coincidentally, I was triggered.

00:29:20:24 - 00:29:23:19
You were using it that day. Using Coke that day, you said. Oh, yeah.

00:29:23:19 - 00:29:26:19
I was just coming back from a night out, so I was just mad. And,

00:29:27:20 - 00:29:29:06
Yeah, he actually came up to me.

00:29:29:06 - 00:29:32:13
He was the aggressor, but I swung a punch and hit him, and he, he hit his head

00:29:32:13 - 00:29:35:13
straight on the ground headfirst like a thud.

00:29:35:15 - 00:29:39:03
And everyone turned around and looked and, Oh, you're lucky.

00:29:39:11 - 00:29:40:22
A very lucky. Yeah, actually.

00:29:40:22 - 00:29:43:01
Well, I thought he was dead, so I put my coat over his head.

00:29:43:01 - 00:29:44:14
So it was dead. You incredibly lucky.

00:29:44:14 - 00:29:46:20
I've got a friend of mine who's working the door. News.

00:29:46:20 - 00:29:48:09
A guy took a swing at him.

00:29:48:09 - 00:29:48:22
He did.

00:29:48:22 - 00:29:52:03
He ducked, hit the guy once, blown his head on the floor.

00:29:52:03 - 00:29:54:15
He got up, went home. Died that night.

00:29:54:15 - 00:29:56:22
friend of mine serving 12 years.

00:29:56:22 - 00:29:58:09
so you're incredibly lucky.

00:29:58:09 - 00:30:01:23
Yeah, well, I'm lucky twice, because that happens the first time with the GBH.

00:30:01:23 - 00:30:03:21
The guy had a brain hemorrhage first time.

00:30:03:21 - 00:30:08:01
And then when I was 25, the guy that brain hemorrhage just over two GBH.

00:30:08:02 - 00:30:09:11
Was that one I'm in jail. For, though.

00:30:09:11 - 00:30:11:07
So the last one, the GBH charge.

00:30:11:07 - 00:30:12:11
How long did you serve?

00:30:12:11 - 00:30:15:20
I, I got I would have got three years, but because I pleaded guilty at the scene,

00:30:15:20 - 00:30:17:11
I waited for him to arrive.

00:30:17:11 - 00:30:21:00
You used to get third or for guilty, but I got half off, so I got 18 months.

00:30:21:03 - 00:30:21:23
Okay.

00:30:21:23 - 00:30:24:23
serve nine and then did the rest on probation.

00:30:25:08 - 00:30:28:20
And when did things change for you in terms of cocaine usage?

00:30:30:11 - 00:30:31:17
It was.

00:30:31:17 - 00:30:32:11
It was in prison.

00:30:32:11 - 00:30:35:11
So I got sentenced to that third prison sentence

00:30:36:03 - 00:30:39:03
for GBH.

00:30:40:20 - 00:30:43:20
I just realized that.

00:30:44:01 - 00:30:46:09
If I wanted my life to change, I had to change myself.

00:30:46:09 - 00:30:48:13
And I know that sounds so obvious to people like us

00:30:48:13 - 00:30:52:10
somewhere in this situation, but I'd never even thought about that.

00:30:52:10 - 00:30:54:04
I never thought somebody could change.

00:30:54:04 - 00:30:56:03
I just thought they are who they are.

00:30:56:03 - 00:30:59:13
And you can maybe change the things you do, but not the person you are.

00:30:59:20 - 00:31:01:16
But for some reason I kind of just got it.

00:31:01:16 - 00:31:04:22
The I can't blame everything and everyone around me,

00:31:04:22 - 00:31:07:22
and I've got to look at myself, and I realize that I was the problem,

00:31:08:04 - 00:31:11:07
and the realization that I was the problem led me to this realization.

00:31:11:07 - 00:31:12:14
I was the solution.

00:31:12:14 - 00:31:14:23
This happened in like a few seconds and it all kicked off

00:31:14:23 - 00:31:18:02
because I spoke to my friend on the phone and he said that there was a picture

00:31:18:06 - 00:31:22:11
of me on Facebook the day I was sentenced outside court, and a picture of me

00:31:22:11 - 00:31:26:04
seven years before outside the exact same courtroom and said,

00:31:27:10 - 00:31:28:13
Crown Court.

00:31:28:13 - 00:31:31:16
And above it, the caption, nothing changes.

00:31:32:02 - 00:31:33:10
And for some reason that was it.

00:31:33:10 - 00:31:36:07
Just random things can sometimes just click.

00:31:36:07 - 00:31:38:17
And I thought, oh yeah, nothing has changed.

00:31:38:17 - 00:31:41:16
Seven years have just gone like that

00:31:41:16 - 00:31:44:13
and I'm back in jail.

00:31:44:13 - 00:31:47:03
and I'm going to end up here and another seven years if I don't change something.

00:31:47:03 - 00:31:49:01
And I for some reason, I've got it that it was me.

00:31:49:01 - 00:31:50:23
And what did you do to change?

00:31:50:23 - 00:31:51:19
I made a big decision.

00:31:51:19 - 00:31:53:01
I just like I just

00:31:53:01 - 00:31:55:22
because I tried to make changes before, but they were just stupid.

00:31:55:22 - 00:31:56:16
Small little.

00:31:56:16 - 00:31:57:12
I'll see how it goes.

00:31:57:12 - 00:31:59:20
I'll try this out. I'll try that out. I stopped going here.

00:31:59:20 - 00:32:01:00
I stop hanging out with him,

00:32:01:00 - 00:32:04:00
you know, start drinking a bit more beer and less vodka.

00:32:04:04 - 00:32:08:16
you know, only only give in the weekend, all that sort of stuff.

00:32:08:16 - 00:32:11:23
But this time I just made a drastic I'm going to.

00:32:12:00 - 00:32:14:20
And I got quite obsessed with a sort of fantasy idea of him

00:32:14:20 - 00:32:17:18
completely changing my identity like I was.

00:32:17:18 - 00:32:19:03
I remember thinking about,

00:32:19:03 - 00:32:21:18
like, Frank William Havoc now from Catch Me If You Can, thinking

00:32:21:18 - 00:32:24:03
like, I'm going to change my name, I'm going to move abroad.

00:32:24:03 - 00:32:27:05
I'm going to be like, I'm going to become someone entirely different.

00:32:27:05 - 00:32:28:19
And when you stopped using cocaine,

00:32:28:19 - 00:32:32:10
did you did you change your circle, your environment?

00:32:32:19 - 00:32:36:11
What did you what did you actually structurally do to to make that change?

00:32:36:11 - 00:32:38:04
Well, first of all, I did the Rehabilitation

00:32:38:04 - 00:32:40:14
of Addicts of Prisoners Trust wrapped program in prison.

00:32:40:14 - 00:32:44:10
It was a six week program that kind of opened my eyes to addiction,

00:32:44:10 - 00:32:46:14
because I just thought it was more of a habit.

00:32:46:14 - 00:32:50:03
Lifestyle didn't really realize the the depths of the psychology around

00:32:50:03 - 00:32:53:09
why I was doing it, but even that was scratching the surface, to be honest.

00:32:53:09 - 00:32:57:02
And then when I was in there, they offered the ability to go to rehab,

00:32:57:12 - 00:33:00:06
and I was, about to be released from my sentence.

00:33:00:06 - 00:33:02:12
And I was doing these, mvcs in there.

00:33:03:11 - 00:33:04:08
no functional skills.

00:33:04:08 - 00:33:05:24
Sorry. Not even in Vicki's functional skills.

00:33:05:24 - 00:33:07:08
Math, English.

00:33:07:08 - 00:33:10:08
And one day I punched a wall because an exam was coming up.

00:33:11:13 - 00:33:13:23
and it's because I was scared of proving my dad wrong.

00:33:13:23 - 00:33:16:17
right about being this stupid idea that you thought I was.

00:33:16:17 - 00:33:18:15
And anyway, as they were taking me to the hospital

00:33:18:15 - 00:33:20:03
because there's no hospital in this prison.

00:33:20:03 - 00:33:22:14
The Mount prison. There's no hospital in there.

00:33:22:14 - 00:33:26:07
they took me past where I was from, and I just as soon as I looked out the window

00:33:26:07 - 00:33:30:09
and I saw my old grounds, I just felt like nothing had changed whatsoever.

00:33:30:18 - 00:33:32:20
I just felt like I was ready to literally step out that door

00:33:32:20 - 00:33:35:06
into the park once again and just crack on.

00:33:35:06 - 00:33:36:08
I hadn't even been in jail.

00:33:36:08 - 00:33:40:10
I was like two different lives, and I just paused one and just press play again.

00:33:40:10 - 00:33:41:22
And I was back.

00:33:41:22 - 00:33:44:10
And I knew in that moment that I could never go back.

00:33:45:24 - 00:33:46:14
so this

00:33:46:14 - 00:33:49:18
guy came into the rehabilitation program inside prison, and he said,

00:33:49:19 - 00:33:53:01
this is an opportunity to go to do six months rehab in Portsmouth.

00:33:53:21 - 00:33:55:11
And I thought, I gotta do that.

00:33:55:11 - 00:33:56:04
I've got to do that.

00:33:56:04 - 00:33:58:10
So I applied for it and it was a 20 grand.

00:33:58:10 - 00:34:00:17
Grant and I had to go through this application

00:34:00:17 - 00:34:02:05
process, and I didn't even think I was going to get it

00:34:02:05 - 00:34:05:18
because I was still in the denial of, oh, I'm not that bad, but I got it.

00:34:06:09 - 00:34:09:00
And they picked me up from the prison gate.

00:34:09:00 - 00:34:10:00
the day of release.

00:34:10:00 - 00:34:11:23
Literally bundle me in a car.

00:34:11:23 - 00:34:16:02
They didn't give me a second to even, you know, even think about anything else

00:34:16:02 - 00:34:19:11
and drove me down to Portsmouth and then put that as my registered address.

00:34:19:22 - 00:34:23:08
And I started a whole process of rehab where they broke me down and built me up

00:34:23:08 - 00:34:25:13
because I thought they were going to teach me to not drink. Cannot take drugs.

00:34:25:13 - 00:34:28:13
But turns out they taught me

00:34:28:14 - 00:34:31:12
why I needed to use drink and drugs and taught me more about myself.

00:34:31:12 - 00:34:32:13
And was the reason why.

00:34:34:01 - 00:34:35:10
It turned out it was.

00:34:35:10 - 00:34:39:14
It stemmed from my dad, obviously, daddy issues.

00:34:39:14 - 00:34:40:08
There, there.

00:34:40:08 - 00:34:44:07
Well, I know his daddy issues, but I think it's certainly a traumatic upbringing.

00:34:44:09 - 00:34:46:14
Yeah. And that we look for an escape.

00:34:46:14 - 00:34:49:17
I think it's a very common thing that I see talking to people

00:34:49:17 - 00:34:53:00
who've got addictions, had addictions, past, present, future, etc..

00:34:53:13 - 00:34:56:03
I think I've built my, I was one session.

00:34:56:03 - 00:34:58:10
I mean, I was very defiant when I first got and I was like a kid

00:34:58:10 - 00:35:00:09
who's literally wearing tracksuit, like wearing a tracksuit.

00:35:00:09 - 00:35:01:11
Man down my trousers.

00:35:01:11 - 00:35:04:11
I've doing this shit because one of those idiots, like, I don't know how the hell

00:35:05:00 - 00:35:08:00
I'm turning to him now, but,

00:35:08:03 - 00:35:11:03
So anyway, I was like that, and,

00:35:11:10 - 00:35:14:13
a couple of months in, I started to being a bit open and receptive to things.

00:35:15:22 - 00:35:17:14
but anyway, at one point I said, I know what you're trying to do.

00:35:17:14 - 00:35:20:24
You're trying to brainwash me because I didn't like the idea of normality.

00:35:20:24 - 00:35:22:04
I really didn't like the idea of that.

00:35:22:04 - 00:35:23:15
I didn't want to be like them,

00:35:23:15 - 00:35:25:24
wanted to be like I remember the authority and everything.

00:35:25:24 - 00:35:29:18
I just didn't like the idea of it. and,

00:35:30:22 - 00:35:31:23
I said, are you trying to brainwash me?

00:35:31:23 - 00:35:34:04
And one of the prison officers said, another prison officer. Sorry.

00:35:34:04 - 00:35:37:05
The, rehab counselor said, looks, your best thinking.

00:35:37:13 - 00:35:41:13
You're absolute best thinking is put you into prison and now into rehab.

00:35:41:21 - 00:35:44:09
Maybe your brain needs a good wash.

00:35:44:09 - 00:35:45:04
And I actually thought.

00:35:45:04 - 00:35:47:07
You're right. Actually, my way isn't working.

00:35:47:07 - 00:35:49:12
I need to try somebody else's way.

00:35:49:12 - 00:35:51:11
And that was what I started to do.

00:35:51:11 - 00:35:53:19
So that's what happened in that moment in time.

00:35:53:19 - 00:35:58:17
You had got fed up with all the punishment that you'd received.

00:35:59:01 - 00:36:03:09
Prison, prison and prison repeating the same process ended up in the same place.

00:36:03:18 - 00:36:05:24
And now you finally had an opportunity,

00:36:05:24 - 00:36:07:14
and that's what you did, and you took your opportunity.

00:36:08:13 - 00:36:09:22
and I think you should be proud of that.

00:36:09:22 - 00:36:11:01
Thank you.

00:36:11:01 - 00:36:14:01
I think it's also very hard when you you had an addiction,

00:36:14:02 - 00:36:17:00
as I have, and all my guests have

00:36:17:00 - 00:36:19:08
to not relapse at some point

00:36:19:08 - 00:36:22:10
when you're getting clean, we will have a couple of relapses.

00:36:22:20 - 00:36:26:13
Some people have multiple relapses, but we all have at least a relapse or two

00:36:26:17 - 00:36:29:14
before we finally get to that point of this.

00:36:29:14 - 00:36:30:06
Is it.

00:36:30:06 - 00:36:33:08
This is flag in the sand time you had that experience.

00:36:34:09 - 00:36:37:09
Well, we've got a lot to get to before I get to that point. But,

00:36:39:13 - 00:36:40:21
my name is a way around.

00:36:40:21 - 00:36:41:05
Okay.

00:36:41:05 - 00:36:45:23
So, so actually my relapse is actually not far happening at the moment.

00:36:46:24 - 00:36:50:02
I did six years completely clean and sober without a drop.

00:36:50:02 - 00:36:51:03
Like, I was ruthless of it.

00:36:51:03 - 00:36:54:11
Like they taught me drink leads to and drink

00:36:54:11 - 00:36:57:14
and drug laws, jails, institutions, death.

00:36:57:14 - 00:37:00:04
Those are the three things. And I believed. It. So many people.

00:37:00:04 - 00:37:00:17
It's true.

00:37:00:17 - 00:37:00:22
Yeah.

00:37:00:22 - 00:37:03:24
No, I yeah, it is true and I and I let them create that limit.

00:37:04:02 - 00:37:07:02
Well that in whatever belief that is I let them create that in my brain

00:37:07:02 - 00:37:08:19
because I thought that's going to serve me well.

00:37:08:19 - 00:37:12:04
And, I was even worried sometimes when people would give me, mince pie

00:37:12:04 - 00:37:15:07
and fucking custard, I was like, is there fucking no brandy in that?

00:37:15:07 - 00:37:16:12
Like, this is something.

00:37:16:12 - 00:37:20:07
And as soon as I tasted it, I know what I'm like because I'm so black and white.

00:37:20:08 - 00:37:22:13
My brain, my brain just goes, you've taken a drink.

00:37:22:13 - 00:37:23:12
You may as well just have a drink.

00:37:23:12 - 00:37:25:16
Imagine, just get on the drugs. You've done it now it's too late.

00:37:25:16 - 00:37:27:03
You're an all or nothing mentality.

00:37:27:03 - 00:37:29:03
Just the pendulum swings like that.

00:37:29:03 - 00:37:32:15
So honestly, if I would have had a tiny bit of brandy and that mince pie

00:37:32:15 - 00:37:36:09
and it just cooked out all gone, well, honestly, that's just how I was.

00:37:36:20 - 00:37:37:11
So I would

00:37:38:13 - 00:37:39:24
so I was completely

00:37:39:24 - 00:37:42:24
clean for six years and then,

00:37:43:20 - 00:37:44:19
yeah, I did relapse.

00:37:44:19 - 00:37:46:21
And then it was kind of a couple of on and off.

00:37:46:21 - 00:37:49:21
What was it that triggered you to relapse after six years?

00:37:50:05 - 00:37:52:19
Because I think that's really interesting for the listeners, because a

00:37:52:19 - 00:37:56:10
lot of people are either going through it to get there or once you get there,

00:37:56:16 - 00:37:59:04
there's a lot of people listening who who have been there and also relapse.

00:37:59:04 - 00:38:01:19
So let's try and, you know, focus in, drill down on

00:38:01:19 - 00:38:03:21
what was what was the reason you realized that was.

00:38:03:21 - 00:38:06:18
The first one was,

00:38:06:18 - 00:38:09:12
caused quite deep, this one to get into and explain it properly.

00:38:09:12 - 00:38:12:09
But I met my,

00:38:12:09 - 00:38:15:09
girlfriend who became my wife.

00:38:15:24 - 00:38:18:06
at an event in Barcelona.

00:38:18:06 - 00:38:19:17
she was from America.

00:38:19:17 - 00:38:22:17
I was from the UK, but she was in Barcelona.

00:38:22:19 - 00:38:25:17
And, after three days, I was like, quit your job.

00:38:25:17 - 00:38:26:11
Stay with me.

00:38:26:11 - 00:38:27:14
This traveled the world together,

00:38:27:14 - 00:38:29:24
and I thought I was giving her this fairytale life,

00:38:31:03 - 00:38:33:06
because I thought that's what every woman wants,

00:38:33:06 - 00:38:36:07
you know, to be swept off her feet and looked after for everything.

00:38:36:07 - 00:38:38:20
And that's, you know, it's lived this crazy life that everyone.

00:38:38:20 - 00:38:41:20
So dreams of of adventure. And,

00:38:42:22 - 00:38:45:23
I just couldn't get my head around why she didn't feel too grateful about it,

00:38:45:23 - 00:38:49:02
and she didn't feel happy, and she almost resented me a little bit,

00:38:49:10 - 00:38:50:16
quite a lot at the time.

00:38:50:16 - 00:38:55:06
And, I didn't get it, but it transpired that I thought I was just traveling,

00:38:55:17 - 00:38:56:13
getting to travel,

00:38:56:13 - 00:38:58:11
I thought I was helping, I travel the world, but really,

00:38:58:11 - 00:39:00:16
what I was doing was just taking it with me, you know?

00:39:00:16 - 00:39:02:04
And actually, she wanted to be at home with her

00:39:02:04 - 00:39:03:22
family, and she's, she's from Venezuela.

00:39:03:22 - 00:39:05:10
She's a, you know, family girl.

00:39:05:10 - 00:39:07:17
And I'd taken her away from her life.

00:39:07:17 - 00:39:09:13
And, it caused,

00:39:11:14 - 00:39:14:06
an issue in the relationship to the point where we,

00:39:14:06 - 00:39:17:08
we decided to go on a break and had to go back to America to see if,

00:39:17:10 - 00:39:19:16
you know, she really wanted to be with me because I was like,

00:39:19:16 - 00:39:21:12
I want you to come back and feel grateful for me

00:39:21:12 - 00:39:24:12
or want you to stay and realize that that's what you want.

00:39:24:18 - 00:39:28:00
And in that decision, I thought that's going to be hard for her to make.

00:39:28:17 - 00:39:30:14
So I'll tell you what. I'm going to make it for you.

00:39:30:14 - 00:39:32:07
I'm going to sabotage it.

00:39:32:07 - 00:39:32:23
So I'm going to.

00:39:32:23 - 00:39:35:18
Consciously did this. Yeah. So I went right.

00:39:35:18 - 00:39:39:06
and I had to I had to premeditate this because I was in Dubai at the time

00:39:39:06 - 00:39:41:18
we were living in Dubai, and I'd literally just bought this lovely apartment

00:39:41:18 - 00:39:44:12
and all the furniture and it's like, look what we've got. And she was just.

00:39:44:12 - 00:39:45:18
She told me she's lonely.

00:39:45:18 - 00:39:49:14
I don't know, I know I shouldn't, of course, because that's valid.

00:39:49:14 - 00:39:53:00
But I was just thinking, so like, I've given you everything I've got

00:39:53:00 - 00:39:55:01
and it's not enough because I can't go to America.

00:39:56:01 - 00:39:58:10
because I'm not coming a record, and.

00:39:58:10 - 00:40:00:15
And it just felt like everything I did wasn't enough.

00:40:00:15 - 00:40:02:19
And then it was my problem, but it was just.

00:40:02:19 - 00:40:04:13
So you found a dealer?

00:40:04:13 - 00:40:05:14
How did you. Know it wasn't.

00:40:05:14 - 00:40:06:04
It wasn't drugs.

00:40:06:04 - 00:40:09:00
It was alcohol. So I but it was it was premeditated in a sense.

00:40:09:00 - 00:40:10:08
Where in Dubai at the time.

00:40:10:08 - 00:40:10:24
I don't know if it's changed

00:40:10:24 - 00:40:14:14
now, but I had to go to the shop and I had to apply for an alcohol license

00:40:15:02 - 00:40:16:11
to get some drink from the shop.

00:40:16:11 - 00:40:18:07
You can get in hotels, but from like a shop.

00:40:18:07 - 00:40:19:17
So I had to apply for an alcohol license.

00:40:19:17 - 00:40:21:12
I had to sit there waiting for it to be processed

00:40:21:12 - 00:40:23:10
and do all this stuff and get this card.

00:40:23:10 - 00:40:24:15
And then I was like, okay.

00:40:24:15 - 00:40:27:15
And then I bought a bottle of wine and, just drank a bottle of wine

00:40:27:21 - 00:40:29:07
and then and it was, you know what?

00:40:29:07 - 00:40:32:16
Like it was actually all right for a little bit like a ton of

00:40:32:16 - 00:40:34:17
I shouldn't say this because it's not the best message to share.

00:40:34:17 - 00:40:38:02
But for a little while I thought, oh, actually, I can have a few drinks.

00:40:38:02 - 00:40:41:22
Yeah, but do you know, it's a very classic thing when you say that is,

00:40:41:22 - 00:40:42:19
a lot of people relax.

00:40:42:19 - 00:40:43:22
But I go, this one

00:40:43:22 - 00:40:47:13
I haven't used for a month, three months, a year, whatever the period of time.

00:40:47:24 - 00:40:51:01
And then they'll relapse, whether it be alcohol or cocaine.

00:40:51:15 - 00:40:53:14
And they'll be like, well, it wasn't as bad as I used to be.

00:40:53:14 - 00:40:55:23
Yeah, yeah, I've only done it once in a month.

00:40:55:23 - 00:40:57:17
If I only did it once a month, that's not a problem.

00:40:57:17 - 00:40:59:04
If anything, once a month isn't an issue.

00:40:59:04 - 00:41:01:05
But I was doing it every day. Yeah.

00:41:01:05 - 00:41:03:10
And then what happens is they start doing it once a month, right?

00:41:03:10 - 00:41:04:20
And then it becomes once a week.

00:41:04:20 - 00:41:07:23
And it's the same pattern that got them in there in the first place.

00:41:07:23 - 00:41:10:05
Yeah. They're repeating that's true. And that's what happened.

00:41:10:05 - 00:41:12:12
With me as well because I've I've relapsed a few times.

00:41:12:12 - 00:41:15:09
I can't even remember now, but quite a quite a few times on and off,

00:41:15:09 - 00:41:18:22
what happens with me as well as when I, when I have that realization that, oh,

00:41:18:22 - 00:41:20:09
I'm actually okay now.

00:41:20:09 - 00:41:24:00
I don't have that problem as much as I used to, is that point

00:41:24:00 - 00:41:27:02
where I go, let your guard down, you can drink, and then I get drunk

00:41:27:15 - 00:41:30:03
and then I blackout and then God knows what happens.

00:41:30:03 - 00:41:32:19
So, that happened a few times, but then I would then get clean

00:41:32:19 - 00:41:35:19
for another six months and be like, God, I'm not doing that again.

00:41:35:19 - 00:41:37:06
But then they say,

00:41:37:06 - 00:41:39:15
watch out for your lows, but also watch out for eyes.

00:41:39:15 - 00:41:40:09
Absolutely.

00:41:40:09 - 00:41:43:06
And it was

00:41:43:06 - 00:41:45:24
it wasn't long ago when, Netflix came out

00:41:46:24 - 00:41:48:10
and I was getting invited

00:41:48:10 - 00:41:51:24
to premieres and celebrity parties, and I thought, you know what?

00:41:52:08 - 00:41:54:09
I thought, you know what?

00:41:54:09 - 00:41:54:24
That made it.

00:41:54:24 - 00:41:56:23
You know, it doesn't matter now.

00:41:56:23 - 00:41:59:16
Yeah.

00:41:59:16 - 00:42:01:02
and again, the beginning.

00:42:01:02 - 00:42:01:22
And it was okay.

00:42:01:22 - 00:42:04:16
It was like I could have a couple of glasses of champagne.

00:42:04:16 - 00:42:06:21
no cocaine at the time. You. No.

00:42:06:21 - 00:42:10:02
But then one day I had some cocaine, and then four days later, I realized, fuck.

00:42:10:09 - 00:42:11:01
Oh, no.

00:42:11:01 - 00:42:15:18
So you relapse with coke, and then you were on a binge immediately.

00:42:15:24 - 00:42:19:14
Yeah, whereas the alcohol, you relapse, but it was kept in moderation

00:42:19:14 - 00:42:20:08
for a period of time.

00:42:20:08 - 00:42:20:13
Yeah.

00:42:20:13 - 00:42:23:24
With Coco, once I'm on, I can't stop with alcohol.

00:42:23:24 - 00:42:25:08
It it gets like that.

00:42:25:08 - 00:42:28:05
But until there's a build up to get to that.

00:42:28:05 - 00:42:28:18
Okay.

00:42:28:18 - 00:42:33:16
And what was the final, final thing that made you go, right?

00:42:33:16 - 00:42:35:20
This this is this is this is it, though.

00:42:35:20 - 00:42:37:14
Yeah. Well, I'm still working on still.

00:42:37:14 - 00:42:39:23
Well, you're still a work in progress. I'm still an. Awesome.

00:42:39:23 - 00:42:42:04
There's nothing wrong with. There's nothing wrong with saying no.

00:42:42:04 - 00:42:43:18
Not my has to be honest, it.

00:42:43:18 - 00:42:45:09
Was only a little while ago that my,

00:42:46:12 - 00:42:49:05
I don't want to touch on this too much because it's still sort of.

00:42:49:05 - 00:42:50:10
Not quite.

00:42:50:10 - 00:42:52:17
It's still. Yeah,

00:42:52:17 - 00:42:54:05
sensitive, said my wife.

00:42:54:05 - 00:42:59:00
But we've we've split up and my son's in America and I can't get into America.

00:43:00:07 - 00:43:03:22
so I'm now like on my own, which makes it even more difficult

00:43:03:22 - 00:43:07:17
because there's no, like, wife to tell me not to or no.

00:43:07:17 - 00:43:09:09
Nervous of being on your own.

00:43:09:09 - 00:43:10:13
I'm not nervous, but I know that.

00:43:10:13 - 00:43:11:16
I don't know if cannabis is the right word.

00:43:11:16 - 00:43:13:18
What I mean is, honestly, when you stop myself.

00:43:13:18 - 00:43:14:22
Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah.

00:43:14:22 - 00:43:17:14
You had somebody there to keep an eye on you.

00:43:17:14 - 00:43:19:15
Exactly. And I knew that. I can't get on it.

00:43:19:15 - 00:43:22:15
I can't have a drink because I've pissed off and quite rightly.

00:43:22:15 - 00:43:24:10
And also, she care about me. She won that for me.

00:43:24:10 - 00:43:27:15
But now I think, well, I could actually.

00:43:27:15 - 00:43:28:20
Yeah. And it's my decision.

00:43:28:20 - 00:43:31:14
And then it gets in my head and, and I've been on and off.

00:43:31:14 - 00:43:35:07
I've been Yeah, I've been drinking on and off for a little bit.

00:43:36:02 - 00:43:37:03
keep on flipping back.

00:43:39:06 - 00:43:40:04
especially when you get like

00:43:40:04 - 00:43:43:11
a, like, I know it's a little bit like it's going to sound really arrogant.

00:43:43:12 - 00:43:45:10
They're not. Aaron. What's the word? Show it off.

00:43:45:10 - 00:43:47:16
But but like, if I get on a business.

00:43:47:16 - 00:43:51:12
I used to dream about business class flights and, like, got on a business

00:43:51:12 - 00:43:53:06
class flight when they come out, they came over.

00:43:53:06 - 00:43:55:12
I had I've got claims for I think it was six months

00:43:55:12 - 00:43:57:04
and they came over to me and they literally just

00:43:57:04 - 00:44:02:16
put a glass of champagne on a tray into my face and fanatic's like.

00:44:02:16 - 00:44:05:08
You know what? I actually got a side.

00:44:05:08 - 00:44:08:08
I've never actually thought about that, but you're absolutely right.

00:44:08:10 - 00:44:12:22
When you fly business class or to lots of countries.

00:44:12:22 - 00:44:14:02
Yeah, the alcohol is included.

00:44:14:02 - 00:44:16:24
I'm on many a time. I've been on a plane, of course. Never been my problem.

00:44:16:24 - 00:44:18:18
I've never really been a drink has never been my issue.

00:44:18:18 - 00:44:19:08
Cocaine.

00:44:19:08 - 00:44:21:15
Yeah, I was Pablo Escobar, but, you know.

00:44:21:15 - 00:44:24:23
So imagine if they put, like, on a trial, a line of cocaine in your face like.

00:44:24:23 - 00:44:26:14
That when I go there?

00:44:26:14 - 00:44:30:04
last time someone offered me a line, 2000 and I.

00:44:30:22 - 00:44:31:19
It was there, and I went,

00:44:32:21 - 00:44:33:12
I've got to go home.

00:44:33:12 - 00:44:33:21
Power in.

00:44:33:21 - 00:44:36:13
That is, You can't tell how empowering that is.

00:44:36:13 - 00:44:38:03
That's like. Yeah. Fuck yeah.

00:44:38:03 - 00:44:39:08
That's exactly how I think.

00:44:39:08 - 00:44:42:08
That's how I think every day. Yeah.

00:44:42:09 - 00:44:45:21
so now you've got nobody to look after.

00:44:45:21 - 00:44:47:13
You rein you in, not look after you.

00:44:47:13 - 00:44:51:04
Keep an eye on you to make sure that you look sensible, that you are sensible.

00:44:52:01 - 00:44:55:01
What are you going to do to ensure that you don't go off the rails?

00:44:56:19 - 00:44:59:19
Good question.

00:45:01:14 - 00:45:04:15
I mean, I've got a lot more self-awareness now and I definitely have changed.

00:45:04:15 - 00:45:07:15
So I now my, my alcohol,

00:45:07:19 - 00:45:08:16
can escalate.

00:45:08:16 - 00:45:11:08
So like I said, I, I can drink in moderation.

00:45:11:08 - 00:45:14:08
But then it gets more frequent and I start getting drunk.

00:45:14:09 - 00:45:15:01
That happens.

00:45:15:01 - 00:45:18:18
But what has changed is my behavior, my awareness.

00:45:18:24 - 00:45:24:09
So whereas before I would black out, be violent, now that doesn't seem to happen.

00:45:24:09 - 00:45:26:19
So luckily I've got

00:45:27:18 - 00:45:29:07
a bit more,

00:45:29:07 - 00:45:31:11
but it sounds like I'm in denial now that's I've gotta be careful,

00:45:31:11 - 00:45:34:02
but luckily I've got a little bit more self-awareness

00:45:34:02 - 00:45:38:03
so I can look after myself more than I could before.

00:45:38:07 - 00:45:41:07
Okay.

00:45:41:12 - 00:45:43:03
But yeah, I'm very, very early

00:45:43:03 - 00:45:45:00
in this sort of process of figuring. Do you want to do

00:45:45:00 - 00:45:47:15
you want to stop drinking or do you want to drink in moderation?

00:45:47:15 - 00:45:50:15
Actually, before you answer that, let me just explain this to you.

00:45:51:12 - 00:45:54:08
I have a lot of clients come to see me.

00:45:54:08 - 00:45:57:08
Alcohol, cocaine addiction.

00:45:57:11 - 00:45:58:23
And some people who come with a cocaine addiction

00:45:58:23 - 00:46:00:14
don't have a problem with alcohol, right?

00:46:00:14 - 00:46:01:17
Nope. You have a misconception.

00:46:01:17 - 00:46:05:01
They think we've got to stop drinking if you want to stop doing cocaine.

00:46:05:01 - 00:46:05:23
Well, that is true.

00:46:05:23 - 00:46:08:23
If alcohol is your gateway, if you're the sort of person that can

00:46:09:16 - 00:46:13:12
have a cider, have a glass of wine once in a month, once

00:46:13:12 - 00:46:14:17
every couple of months, you're not the person

00:46:14:17 - 00:46:17:17
who has an association with alcohol, with using cocaine, right?

00:46:17:21 - 00:46:19:15
So before you answer that question, let me explain this.

00:46:22:02 - 00:46:24:00
Is a strategy I use to help

00:46:24:00 - 00:46:27:21
people who want to continue drinking, but want to drink in low level of moderation.

00:46:27:21 - 00:46:30:03
And I wonder if you fit into this.

00:46:30:03 - 00:46:33:12
So many years ago, I had an idea of a board game.

00:46:33:21 - 00:46:35:02
Okay, you're going to just bear with me.

00:46:35:02 - 00:46:38:11
I had no idea of a board game, and I saw this board game

00:46:38:11 - 00:46:41:11
that taught psychology students how to revise for their degree.

00:46:41:24 - 00:46:43:18
And I thought, if this is a great concept.

00:46:43:18 - 00:46:47:13
So I phoned up two colleagues of mine, one's a professor and another doctor,

00:46:47:13 - 00:46:48:24
and I said, listen, what about this board?

00:46:48:24 - 00:46:51:12
Guaranteed you psychology students how to revise their degree?

00:46:51:12 - 00:46:53:01
And they went, that's a great idea.

00:46:53:01 - 00:46:55:18
So we started creating this board game.

00:46:55:18 - 00:46:56:23
over a period of three months.

00:46:56:23 - 00:46:58:08
We had a leatherette board made.

00:46:58:08 - 00:47:00:04
We had little brains. We moved around.

00:47:00:04 - 00:47:03:06
We had the time pieces, and we had 300 cards.

00:47:03:06 - 00:47:07:17
Was the plan which would answer all of the studies of the degree of psychology.

00:47:08:07 - 00:47:09:21
And we got really close to completion.

00:47:09:21 - 00:47:10:21
But I was busy.

00:47:10:21 - 00:47:13:21
They were busy things, you know, it's like you've got projects on.

00:47:14:01 - 00:47:15:22
So I've got a little bolthole in Spain.

00:47:15:22 - 00:47:16:17
It's just a little place.

00:47:16:17 - 00:47:18:17
And I said, so listen, why don't we go to my place in Spain?

00:47:18:17 - 00:47:19:14
I was like, cool.

00:47:19:14 - 00:47:22:06
We turn our phone off, be there for like four nights

00:47:22:06 - 00:47:25:12
and, we'll get the game done, come back, get into production.

00:47:26:11 - 00:47:27:17
So we got to my place in Spain.

00:47:27:17 - 00:47:28:17
And I like food.

00:47:28:17 - 00:47:31:02
Food is my thing, right? I like nice food.

00:47:31:02 - 00:47:33:11
And there's a beautiful state restaurant not far from my place.

00:47:33:11 - 00:47:35:22
And I said to him, why don't we go to the state restaurant tonight?

00:47:35:22 - 00:47:37:19
You fancy going that? And that's like, yeah, yeah, cool.

00:47:37:19 - 00:47:40:19
So we go to this state restaurant, and one of the professors,

00:47:40:20 - 00:47:44:03
he says to me, turns me, goes El Mana for order a bottle of wine.

00:47:44:24 - 00:47:47:01
The first thing I thought was, well, I'm not your dad.

00:47:47:01 - 00:47:48:11
I didn't say this bottle. I'm not your dad.

00:47:48:11 - 00:47:50:14
You can order what you like. Like what are you gonna worry about me? What?

00:47:50:14 - 00:47:52:00
What you want? I said order what you want.

00:47:52:00 - 00:47:55:10
We just split the bill, and I remember, and this is a long time ago, right?

00:47:55:14 - 00:47:58:14
2008, 2007, 2008. Somewhere around there.

00:47:58:22 - 00:48:00:00
And I remember,

00:48:01:06 - 00:48:02:07
him ordering a bottle of wine.

00:48:02:07 - 00:48:04:01
I remember it was around about 50 pounds at the time.

00:48:04:01 - 00:48:05:23
And I remember thinking to myself,

00:48:05:23 - 00:48:08:15
50 pound for a bottle of wine like I'm a Neanderthal.

00:48:08:15 - 00:48:10:18
What do I know about one? I mean, it seemed like a lot of money.

00:48:10:18 - 00:48:12:06
Like I was going to buy some of a bottle of wine.

00:48:12:06 - 00:48:14:00
I can't remember if I've ever bought someone a bottle of wine.

00:48:14:00 - 00:48:15:21
I know what I spent ten, 12, 15.

00:48:15:21 - 00:48:17:14
It had the most. Yeah.

00:48:17:14 - 00:48:20:07
Anyway, he has this glass and he does this and he does that,

00:48:20:07 - 00:48:23:00
and he does this and takes a sip and he puts it down.

00:48:23:00 - 00:48:26:00
And during the whole meal he drank one glass of one.

00:48:26:04 - 00:48:27:22
I found that really impressive. Right.

00:48:27:22 - 00:48:31:08
he talks the wine he takes home back to my place with there for 3 or 4 nights.

00:48:31:14 - 00:48:34:03
It took him all 3 or 4 nights to drink this one bottle of wine.

00:48:35:03 - 00:48:36:17
So we're on the plane, flying back to the UK.

00:48:36:17 - 00:48:39:17
And I turned to him and I said, listen, professor.

00:48:41:12 - 00:48:43:03
Tell me, what were you doing with this glass of wine?

00:48:43:03 - 00:48:44:17
He says, do you know me?

00:48:44:17 - 00:48:46:09
Taste buds on your tongue?

00:48:46:09 - 00:48:48:03
And I didn't know the answer, and I still can't remember.

00:48:48:03 - 00:48:51:03
But it's a few thousand. It was a lot,

00:48:51:08 - 00:48:51:16
he said.

00:48:51:16 - 00:48:53:16
Doesn't it seem unfair if you don't allow

00:48:53:16 - 00:48:55:17
all the taste buds to enjoy the glass of wine?

00:48:55:17 - 00:48:58:05
That seemed quite logical to me. And I went, oh, that makes sense.

00:48:58:05 - 00:49:01:16
And he said, well, what I do is I take this and I look at the color of the one.

00:49:01:16 - 00:49:03:05
I look at the clarity of the wine.

00:49:03:05 - 00:49:05:16
I look at the reflections of light on the surface of the wine.

00:49:05:16 - 00:49:09:06
I take a aroma, I take in a small sip, and I bring in supply

00:49:09:09 - 00:49:14:16
all the sensitive organs of taste, smell, sight and I get in thoroughly enjoyment.

00:49:15:06 - 00:49:18:18
And what he said to me was this A lot of people drink

00:49:19:06 - 00:49:21:03
because they want an outcome, right?

00:49:21:03 - 00:49:22:12
They want to get drunk, they want to get tipsy.

00:49:22:12 - 00:49:24:18
They want to forget. They want to escape.

00:49:24:18 - 00:49:25:23
He was drinking for pleasure.

00:49:27:01 - 00:49:30:03
he took enormous gratification from a small quantity.

00:49:30:03 - 00:49:33:04
When other people drink a large quantity and get no gratification,

00:49:33:15 - 00:49:36:04
and I'm wondering if you wouldn't be one of those people would be able

00:49:36:04 - 00:49:39:08
to work out a strategy to have moderation of alcohol.

00:49:39:16 - 00:49:40:18
Because if you're in control of

00:49:40:18 - 00:49:43:18
instead of controlling you, maybe you won't go down that route.

00:49:45:09 - 00:49:47:00
I'd love to.

00:49:47:00 - 00:49:50:00
I'd love to agree, but they're probably not.

00:49:50:00 - 00:49:52:20
You don't think you're capable of being moderation?

00:49:52:20 - 00:49:55:05
I can do it for a bit, but then the moderation just creeps up.

00:49:55:05 - 00:49:58:23
Like I remember I was doing moderation, and then I would get my haircut.

00:49:59:04 - 00:50:01:08
Do you want a beer? Oh, yeah. I'll have a beer now.

00:50:01:08 - 00:50:03:00
I can have a beer when I get my haircut.

00:50:03:00 - 00:50:05:02
I was like, brilliant. I'm allowed that now.

00:50:05:02 - 00:50:08:02
And then on the way back from I get my haircut, you know,

00:50:08:05 - 00:50:10:01
I could have a glass of wine there as well.

00:50:10:01 - 00:50:12:20
And it's just my brain just starts talking about.

00:50:12:20 - 00:50:14:10
Why you drink it, why do you want the beer,

00:50:14:10 - 00:50:15:16
and why do you want the one?

00:50:15:16 - 00:50:16:22
I said, no, my brain just takes over.

00:50:16:22 - 00:50:19:05
And I just as soon as I have the taste of it, I just want it.

00:50:19:05 - 00:50:21:03
But before you have the taste, why do you want it?

00:50:22:12 - 00:50:23:17
what's it serving you?

00:50:23:17 - 00:50:26:12
It's giving me some kind of feeling or stimulation,

00:50:26:12 - 00:50:28:11
which I'm pretty slapped with, that.

00:50:28:11 - 00:50:31:02
Can, you know, get that feeling of stimulation from somewhere else.

00:50:31:02 - 00:50:33:02
I get it from work.

00:50:33:02 - 00:50:34:09
but that's another addiction. Yeah.

00:50:34:09 - 00:50:37:11
Jim Jarmusch's never addiction. The it is.

00:50:37:11 - 00:50:39:12
But wouldn't you be rather addicted to the

00:50:39:12 - 00:50:42:00
addicted to the gym, addicted to alcohol and cocaine?

00:50:42:00 - 00:50:42:22
Yeah, well, that's what I do.

00:50:42:22 - 00:50:44:16
That's why I guess which one I which that's.

00:50:44:16 - 00:50:45:09
What I have done.

00:50:45:09 - 00:50:47:16
But still ultimately sometimes you,

00:50:47:16 - 00:50:50:16
you know, eight years later, which has been my journey,

00:50:50:19 - 00:50:53:13
I go, well, I'm now successful because the things I wanted

00:50:53:13 - 00:50:57:00
got a life that I wanted, but actually I already feel much different.

00:50:57:06 - 00:50:59:15
You know, it's not like I have this sense of

00:50:59:15 - 00:51:02:23
true happiness, fulfillment and joy because I have this flat,

00:51:03:24 - 00:51:04:12
emotional.

00:51:04:12 - 00:51:07:17
Aspect you have cannot be happy that if always going to be because you have

00:51:07:17 - 00:51:11:04
this flat spectrum of a psychopath, how are you ever going to be happy?

00:51:11:04 - 00:51:12:24
I'm. I know,

00:51:12:24 - 00:51:16:01
but I can fill it with stimulatory excitement.

00:51:16:23 - 00:51:18:06
you know, things that.

00:51:18:06 - 00:51:19:08
Yeah, I can

00:51:19:08 - 00:51:22:03
when I work or there's projects that are excitement or thing that's happened.

00:51:22:03 - 00:51:26:19
Those things I can, things I can create in my brain, I can have, you know, that's

00:51:26:19 - 00:51:29:19
why the drugs and alcohol work for me because it gives me a sensation.

00:51:31:13 - 00:51:34:07
Well, you not you're not feeling less just because you're.

00:51:34:07 - 00:51:36:20
You don't because you because you're detached from emotion.

00:51:36:20 - 00:51:39:09
You're not feeling less. You still have feelings.

00:51:39:09 - 00:51:41:13
Not many. They're not really. Not many.

00:51:41:13 - 00:51:42:04
Almost none.

00:51:43:07 - 00:51:43:14
Yeah.

00:51:43:14 - 00:51:45:24
Is that what you're watching? America?

00:51:45:24 - 00:51:48:24
No. No, we just,

00:51:49:06 - 00:51:52:06
just grew apart.

00:51:53:04 - 00:51:54:07
Yeah,

00:51:54:07 - 00:51:57:07
I had to save that one, but we just did just grow apart.

00:51:57:11 - 00:52:01:18
How much of your success do you put down to your, psychopathic tendencies?

00:52:02:04 - 00:52:05:04
All of that? All of it? Yeah.

00:52:05:05 - 00:52:08:22
I guess there's some, you know, intelligence there as well, but I.

00:52:08:23 - 00:52:11:23
I'm just very strategic, like, I'm a very logical, can,

00:52:12:01 - 00:52:15:16
you know, visually see things, see maps and plans and,

00:52:16:03 - 00:52:19:06
and there's no emotional influence that's going to stop me and I most

00:52:19:07 - 00:52:20:13
and I, I've coached a lot of people,

00:52:20:13 - 00:52:23:03
I've tried a lot of people and I hear their pitfalls.

00:52:23:03 - 00:52:26:03
And I just say, I just don't have that block, you know, that you have this.

00:52:26:06 - 00:52:26:16
This.

00:52:26:16 - 00:52:29:16
What about the emotion of being a as an a positive,

00:52:29:20 - 00:52:32:20
the emotion of success, the emotion of reward, the emotion of achievement?

00:52:33:03 - 00:52:37:02
I have that in the form of like craving, of significance and power. And,

00:52:37:02 - 00:52:42:11
you know, it comes from a, an ego brain perspective rather than a felt sense.

00:52:42:12 - 00:52:45:00
You get a good feeling of being successful.

00:52:46:08 - 00:52:48:06
I get a stimulatory

00:52:48:06 - 00:52:52:01
buzz off the idea of being a successful person,

00:52:52:07 - 00:52:57:07
but I don't get a feeling of fulfillment for being successful now.

00:52:57:20 - 00:52:59:05
Okay.

00:52:59:05 - 00:53:03:19
Do you get pleasure from anything? Sex.

00:53:04:14 - 00:53:05:07
Because it's just.

00:53:05:07 - 00:53:07:20
Don't look at me like that.

00:53:07:20 - 00:53:10:19
It's not what you said before.

00:53:10:19 - 00:53:12:02
sex. Yeah. Sex.

00:53:12:02 - 00:53:13:17
Because you enjoy sex?

00:53:13:17 - 00:53:14:20
Yeah, because it's another addiction.

00:53:14:20 - 00:53:17:00
But it's also a it's an obvious sensation, you know?

00:53:17:00 - 00:53:18:07
It's one that I can't deny.

00:53:18:07 - 00:53:21:03
You know, anything that I can feel from, I, you know.

00:53:21:03 - 00:53:22:11
Well, it will.

00:53:22:11 - 00:53:24:10
Be an interesting because you like to orgasm.

00:53:24:10 - 00:53:25:22
I think that's what you're trying to tell me.

00:53:25:22 - 00:53:26:06
Yeah.

00:53:26:06 - 00:53:28:06
And, well, a lot of people do, but I'm.

00:53:28:06 - 00:53:29:17
I'm coming to my point. Don't worry.

00:53:29:17 - 00:53:31:07
I'm not just bringing it out of the reason.

00:53:31:07 - 00:53:33:21
So a lot of people like to, to orgasm.

00:53:33:21 - 00:53:36:21
A lot of people like to come shoot their load.

00:53:36:24 - 00:53:38:04
so they get carried away that

00:53:39:04 - 00:53:41:16
and I think the reason is this

00:53:41:16 - 00:53:43:10
if you think about dopamine seeking,

00:53:43:10 - 00:53:46:22
which is what we're talking about with alcohol, cocaine especially,

00:53:47:09 - 00:53:50:09
and the level of dopamine that cocaine releases,

00:53:50:13 - 00:53:53:23
and you got to realize that dopamine is, is not just

00:53:54:09 - 00:53:57:18
the quantity of dopamine that's released, it's the speed.

00:53:57:18 - 00:54:00:01
The dopamine is released that affects you. Right?

00:54:00:01 - 00:54:03:07
So cocaine said in a really weird way, cocaine.

00:54:03:11 - 00:54:04:10
But so cocaine.

00:54:04:10 - 00:54:07:03
Why did that cocaine is,

00:54:07:03 - 00:54:08:17
very fast acting.

00:54:08:17 - 00:54:11:10
I'm very high on the dopamine release level.

00:54:11:10 - 00:54:13:20
Right.

00:54:13:20 - 00:54:17:01
And I think that's why you were seeking that so much.

00:54:17:01 - 00:54:19:11
Because when you orgasm.

00:54:19:11 - 00:54:20:20
Right.

00:54:20:20 - 00:54:23:10
That's about 250% more dopamine

00:54:23:10 - 00:54:26:16
in your natural, release in your body.

00:54:26:16 - 00:54:27:20
So your natural release.

00:54:27:20 - 00:54:30:20
And then let's say I use this example before,

00:54:31:05 - 00:54:32:18
let's say you like chocolate, right?

00:54:32:18 - 00:54:34:08
Like, really like chocolate.

00:54:34:08 - 00:54:36:24
And you have a bar of beautiful Belgium,

00:54:36:24 - 00:54:39:24
Cadbury's Galaxy chocolate, whatever you like.

00:54:40:08 - 00:54:43:05
send your money to my bank account.

00:54:43:05 - 00:54:45:02
so you do that, right?

00:54:46:08 - 00:54:47:03
That releases

00:54:47:03 - 00:54:50:03
about 50% more dopamine than your natural body.

00:54:50:08 - 00:54:53:15
Now, if you use cocaine, that releases around about 250%

00:54:54:00 - 00:54:57:00
dopamine right in a very rapid response.

00:54:57:09 - 00:55:03:07
So if you think about the level of 250% of dopamine, that is equivalent of orgasms.

00:55:04:11 - 00:55:07:05
and let's go back to the fact that you like sex and you like to orgasm,

00:55:07:05 - 00:55:08:22
because ultimately that's what sex is about, right?

00:55:08:22 - 00:55:11:06
You're doing that when you get cocaine.

00:55:11:06 - 00:55:13:15
You're getting it for orgasm when you would cocaine,

00:55:13:15 - 00:55:15:16
who would want to go and use it?

00:55:15:16 - 00:55:17:01
and that's what drives you.

00:55:17:01 - 00:55:20:07
Because if you don't like certain things, if they don't gel

00:55:20:07 - 00:55:23:07
with your emotions, but you do like sex,

00:55:23:13 - 00:55:24:22
that's why you like cocaine.

00:55:24:22 - 00:55:25:02
Yeah.

00:55:25:02 - 00:55:28:01
And I think that a lot of people, they have a general level of,

00:55:29:04 - 00:55:32:17
content, joy, fulfillment in some areas of their life.

00:55:32:17 - 00:55:34:02
You know, maybe they have a happy family life.

00:55:34:02 - 00:55:36:15
Maybe they just feel fulfilled in the work that they do.

00:55:36:15 - 00:55:39:24
Maybe they, are just content with just a walk in the park

00:55:39:24 - 00:55:43:05
with their dog or a coffee or whatever, because I just have this flatness,

00:55:43:20 - 00:55:47:16
you know, I've always had to feel the need to seek some external substance

00:55:47:16 - 00:55:50:12
to fix that internal problem, you know? Yeah.

00:55:50:12 - 00:55:52:24
and, and I'd be lying if I said it was still that.

00:55:52:24 - 00:55:54:02
It wasn't still there.

00:55:54:02 - 00:55:56:08
I filled it with work.

00:55:56:08 - 00:55:58:02
and there's still the drive is significant.

00:55:58:02 - 00:56:01:04
It's like I still want to be this successful, rich, famous man.

00:56:01:04 - 00:56:02:13
Because that might be.

00:56:02:13 - 00:56:07:10
Interesting how you tie success with rich and famous.

00:56:07:21 - 00:56:09:15
Yeah, well, I want all those things individually,

00:56:09:15 - 00:56:12:15
but they don't necessarily have to come at the same time.

00:56:12:20 - 00:56:15:10
But that quantify success for you?

00:56:15:10 - 00:56:17:02
Well, no, because they're just

00:56:17:02 - 00:56:20:12
they are the closest things to significance that I can attribute.

00:56:20:12 - 00:56:23:03
And that that is the closest thing I can feel to love.

00:56:23:03 - 00:56:25:21
I don't seem to be able to show love.

00:56:25:21 - 00:56:29:01
So you need external validation for internal feelings.

00:56:29:19 - 00:56:31:11
It's the closest I've been able to get.

00:56:31:11 - 00:56:35:18
I would I'm working on trying to access those emotions in deep and profound ways.

00:56:35:18 - 00:56:38:01
In the middle of the jungle, with all sorts of plant medicines.

00:56:38:01 - 00:56:39:09
Trust me.

00:56:39:09 - 00:56:40:10
I would go.

00:56:40:10 - 00:56:41:16
Know I'd do so.

00:56:41:16 - 00:56:44:09
And mushrooms and see other bits and pieces.

00:56:44:09 - 00:56:44:23
Peyote.

00:56:44:23 - 00:56:47:18
But but not just that, but also the spirit of pray.

00:56:47:18 - 00:56:51:05
And in temples, you know, and recently and and I've, I've tried

00:56:51:05 - 00:56:55:05
all sorts of things over the years and I want to feel I want to be happy.

00:56:55:05 - 00:56:56:12
I don't want to

00:56:57:11 - 00:56:58:05
be I don't

00:56:58:05 - 00:57:01:10
want to be a Nessus, actually, I do want to be successful.

00:57:01:10 - 00:57:03:03
And I you know, I like what I do.

00:57:03:03 - 00:57:06:21
I don't want to feel the need to have all those that validation,

00:57:08:00 - 00:57:11:15
but it's kind of all I have because without it, I just feel flat,

00:57:12:15 - 00:57:13:08
you know?

00:57:13:08 - 00:57:16:09
So I'm working on trying to open those emotions and and there's

00:57:16:09 - 00:57:20:04
a flicker there, you know, it's not like I know it's completely dormant.

00:57:20:04 - 00:57:23:22
I remember reading a book on somebody who I can't remember the name of the person,

00:57:24:15 - 00:57:29:17
but I read a book on somebody who had a dissociation with their emotions.

00:57:29:17 - 00:57:32:04
So, yeah, it's very similar to what we're talking about.

00:57:32:04 - 00:57:35:04
And they travel the world to look for a solution.

00:57:35:17 - 00:57:36:23
And they went to this.

00:57:36:23 - 00:57:38:04
They went to Haiti.

00:57:38:04 - 00:57:39:19
It's how you see the how you pronounce it.

00:57:39:19 - 00:57:43:02
They went to Haiti and they came across these,

00:57:43:08 - 00:57:45:14
this group of people, and they went to them to say, listen,

00:57:45:14 - 00:57:50:08
I have this, addiction and I'm depressive and I have no emotions.

00:57:50:08 - 00:57:53:16
And they they gave them all the reasons they were coming to see them.

00:57:54:00 - 00:57:57:08
And I've heard that you're the witch doctor and that you can resolve this.

00:57:57:21 - 00:58:00:03
And this witch doctor says, yes, I can.

00:58:00:03 - 00:58:03:17
And he puts this man in a cage, like a wooden cage.

00:58:03:17 - 00:58:04:16
Like a box?

00:58:04:16 - 00:58:06:21
No, not much bigger than the man himself, right.

00:58:06:21 - 00:58:11:07
It was completely bamboo clear, stripped down to naked.

00:58:12:06 - 00:58:15:04
Witch doctor says you want to find the solution to your problem.

00:58:15:04 - 00:58:16:21
I'm going to put you in this box.

00:58:16:21 - 00:58:19:21
And then they came along, and they cartel slit his throat,

00:58:19:21 - 00:58:21:12
and they put the blood in a bowl.

00:58:21:12 - 00:58:24:18
And every single person from the tribe came along, put their hand on the blood,

00:58:24:21 - 00:58:26:01
and touched the man inside.

00:58:26:01 - 00:58:28:23
And afterwards he said in his book,

00:58:28:23 - 00:58:31:21
it was the most powerful,

00:58:31:21 - 00:58:34:16
emotional, fulfilling

00:58:34:16 - 00:58:38:16
experience that lifted my depression, the lifted my emotions,

00:58:38:22 - 00:58:41:22
that made me suddenly have feelings again.

00:58:42:21 - 00:58:45:19
And when you look at the book and you think about this, actually

00:58:45:19 - 00:58:49:15
what he was describing is this the way to get feelings, in his opinion,

00:58:50:14 - 00:58:54:02
was to associate with other people, be around other people,

00:58:54:12 - 00:58:57:15
to be attached to other people, then put in the blood and they were tortured.

00:58:57:15 - 00:58:59:14
They were showing their love. They were showing their feelings.

00:58:59:14 - 00:59:01:11
The love wasn't necessarily, I'm telling you, I love.

00:59:01:11 - 00:59:04:01
But they were connected. There was a connection there. Right?

00:59:04:01 - 00:59:06:23
And he saw that people cared about him.

00:59:06:23 - 00:59:08:02
In fact, there was one bit I left.

00:59:08:02 - 00:59:11:01
He had to go and find the cow or goat.

00:59:11:01 - 00:59:12:10
They slit the throat.

00:59:12:10 - 00:59:17:01
And that go into around the community to find that that goat or the cow

00:59:17:13 - 00:59:20:01
was opening up a rapport building, talking

00:59:20:01 - 00:59:23:01
to other people, taking his mind off of his own problems.

00:59:23:01 - 00:59:26:16
And sometimes when you externalize, instead of internalizing,

00:59:27:02 - 00:59:30:00
you get a different clarity and perspective.

00:59:30:00 - 00:59:30:13
Don't you think

00:59:31:18 - 00:59:32:10
it's interesting?

00:59:32:10 - 00:59:34:20
Yeah, I wonder how that would have played out.

00:59:34:20 - 00:59:38:20
And maybe he felt some sort of emotion for sacrificing an animal.

00:59:38:20 - 00:59:39:17
That's true.

00:59:39:17 - 00:59:42:10
If because if you didn't have any emotion, you don't have,

00:59:42:10 - 00:59:45:10
he he wouldn't have had the negative ones or the positive ones.

00:59:45:18 - 00:59:47:10
and maybe that brought something out in him as well.

00:59:47:10 - 00:59:48:16
That's true.

00:59:48:16 - 00:59:51:16
you set up the coaching masters, and it would be nice of me

00:59:51:21 - 00:59:54:14
to not talk about the coaching masters.

00:59:54:14 - 00:59:57:06
within a few years, the business has skyrocketed.

00:59:57:06 - 01:00:00:00
And how did you and your partners achieve this?

01:00:00:00 - 01:00:02:02
I started small, I was just helping people

01:00:02:02 - 01:00:05:03
in, Costa Coffee for free over, you know, have a chat.

01:00:05:03 - 01:00:08:10
Because I realized that all the things in a a and an A and a

01:00:08:10 - 01:00:11:10
and or the rehab six months that I did, I just learned so much.

01:00:11:20 - 01:00:16:08
And I'd listen to people's rehab, relapses and trials and break breakthroughs.

01:00:16:08 - 01:00:18:18
And that traumas, triggers stories.

01:00:18:18 - 01:00:21:04
I just start helping people for free and get them good results.

01:00:21:04 - 01:00:22:18
Didn't even know what a life coach was.

01:00:22:18 - 01:00:26:04
But, what's called myself a personal development mentor at the time,

01:00:27:17 - 01:00:30:15
and then did some online research and some trainings

01:00:30:15 - 01:00:33:17
and qualifications and then just started charging for life coaching.

01:00:33:17 - 01:00:35:12
Very simple.

01:00:35:12 - 01:00:38:24
but also I just because of this strategic brain that I have,

01:00:39:24 - 01:00:42:12
I just understood that you could do it online.

01:00:42:12 - 01:00:46:02
And this was sort of seven years ago when nobody was doing it online.

01:00:47:04 - 01:00:48:21
What happened really wasn't.

01:00:48:21 - 01:00:53:01
So I was doing social media, getting clients from Australia, in America doing.

01:00:53:01 - 01:00:57:01
I have a Facebook video called that before zoom, and I got clients very quickly.

01:00:57:01 - 01:01:00:01
And, and then I met a business partner of mine,

01:01:00:08 - 01:01:03:23
who was doing, coaching training, but he was doing it in the room.

01:01:03:23 - 01:01:07:22
So he was, you know, getting people still selling the courses

01:01:07:22 - 01:01:08:16
at the back of the room,

01:01:09:21 - 01:01:12:13
running in the back of the room to sign up for whatever.

01:01:12:13 - 01:01:13:11
And I said, oh, okay.

01:01:13:11 - 01:01:16:18
Well, if you train coaches and I know how to build the business online,

01:01:18:02 - 01:01:20:04
we could put this together and I could teach you how to do it online,

01:01:20:04 - 01:01:21:22
and we could just create this big business.

01:01:21:22 - 01:01:25:10
And it was just a perfect synchronicity, the perfect time.

01:01:25:10 - 01:01:27:14
We built this great online academy.

01:01:27:14 - 01:01:29:22
that was this one stop shop for coaches.

01:01:29:22 - 01:01:31:18
And, and then the pandemic hit and everyone

01:01:31:18 - 01:01:33:06
was looking for an opportunity to work online.

01:01:33:06 - 01:01:37:11
Also, the coaching industry was rising, and we was also had a different edge

01:01:37:11 - 01:01:38:02
to it.

01:01:38:02 - 01:01:41:23
We spoke about it being younger, sharper, more powerful, more impactful.

01:01:41:23 - 01:01:44:09
Our branding was more, for younger people.

01:01:44:09 - 01:01:49:16
It was it was less of the traditional, coaching niche, demographic.

01:01:50:06 - 01:01:53:12
And, and we turned into more of a freedom based lifestyle model.

01:01:53:12 - 01:01:55:03
So you can coach from anywhere in the world.

01:01:55:03 - 01:01:55:11
You can.

01:01:55:11 - 01:02:00:05
We have we built a co-working space in Bali where people can now move to Bali,

01:02:00:05 - 01:02:04:02
live their coach online from the beach or within the co-working space.

01:02:04:02 - 01:02:07:20
So we created, you know, this lifestyle on this community, around this

01:02:07:20 - 01:02:12:11
ethos of helping people, and in the process built apps and virtual

01:02:12:11 - 01:02:17:01
reality and, you know, just built a good business around around that. And,

01:02:18:07 - 01:02:19:13
yeah.

01:02:19:13 - 01:02:21:17
That's you did pretty well. Yeah.

01:02:21:17 - 01:02:23:16
So tell me, say my last question for you.

01:02:23:16 - 01:02:26:16
I still got two questions you want to ask every single guest.

01:02:28:03 - 01:02:31:03
but the first question that I've got to ask you is,

01:02:32:10 - 01:02:34:17
what do you think you've learned about yourself

01:02:34:17 - 01:02:37:17
through your whole journey?

01:02:38:07 - 01:02:39:14
It's something I'm still working on

01:02:39:14 - 01:02:42:24
because it's still lingering and it's still it's still not gone.

01:02:42:24 - 01:02:46:10
But the thing that was the catalyst of change for me was

01:02:46:10 - 01:02:51:02
my shifting of my identity, was knowing that I'm not bad and unlovable,

01:02:52:08 - 01:02:56:09
realizing that I had the ability to not only change identity, but I wasn't.

01:02:56:09 - 01:02:57:20
That person

01:02:57:20 - 01:03:01:07
was actually the breakthrough that I had because I was beating myself up

01:03:01:07 - 01:03:02:18
for being this bad person,

01:03:02:18 - 01:03:03:10
you know, and thought

01:03:03:10 - 01:03:06:12
that the way my dad treated me was my fault because I was a bad person.

01:03:06:12 - 01:03:07:07
I kind of deserved it.

01:03:09:00 - 01:03:11:24
so the thing I've learned about myself is I am

01:03:11:24 - 01:03:13:24
good and I am lovable.

01:03:13:24 - 01:03:17:19
But some of these beliefs and these identities are

01:03:19:04 - 01:03:20:22
they can be shifted and they can be brought into

01:03:20:22 - 01:03:22:14
your awareness, but they can still have resonance.

01:03:22:14 - 01:03:25:14
You know, this is, so I'm still working on them,

01:03:27:00 - 01:03:29:19
to fully be able to open open myself up.

01:03:29:19 - 01:03:30:16
I think.

01:03:30:16 - 01:03:33:15
Otherwise, I still wouldn't be in a position of having, you know,

01:03:33:15 - 01:03:38:03
am I, you know, shut off emotions and, you know, relapses along the way.

01:03:38:11 - 01:03:41:10
What would the Lewis of today tell your younger

01:03:41:10 - 01:03:44:10
self?

01:03:48:03 - 01:03:49:06
You're going to be all right.

01:03:49:06 - 01:03:53:16
And your smart kid that listen to your dad and,

01:03:56:05 - 01:03:57:22
everything's going to work out okay.

01:03:57:22 - 01:03:59:22
And end. This.

01:03:59:22 - 01:04:01:02
Thank you very much for coming.

01:04:01:02 - 01:04:03:05
Thank you, I appreciate it. Cheers. Thank you.