More Than a Shelter

Breaking Free: From Substance Struggles to Spiritual Strength

• Gateway Rescue Mission • Episode 7

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0:00 | 30:11

When Brad Hancock first walked through the doors of the Gateway Rescue Mission's New Life Program, he was desperate for a change. Now a staff member, Brad joins me, Rex Baker, to share powerful insights from his own experiences and those of others who have faced the immense challenges of addiction recovery. Together, we explore the crucial first week in the program, a period that can set the tone for someone’s journey towards a life free from addiction. Brad's firsthand accounts provide a window into the behaviors and mindsets that reveal a person’s true readiness for transformation.

Withdrawals from substances like opiates and crystal meth are brutal, and Brad and I don't shy away from discussing their harsh realities. Listeners will gain an understanding of how these drugs physically and mentally trap individuals in a vicious cycle of addiction. We recount encounters with individuals right at the edge, their bodies and minds battered by exhaustion and paranoia. The outreach efforts by the Gateway Rescue Mission offer a lifeline, stepping in when hope seems lost and providing the critical support needed to start anew.

The conversation then shifts to the broader challenges of addiction recovery programs, with a particular focus on alcohol addiction. Misconceptions about short-term rehab are confronted head-on as Brad and I champion the benefits of longer, faith-based programs. These initiatives not only address the physical aspects of addiction but also nourish the soul, offering a path to sustainable recovery through community and spiritual growth. As we close, we reflect on the hope found in the gospel, offering listeners a message of peace and grace—a testament to the spiritual foundation underpinning our mission at the Gateway Rescue Mission.

Gateway Rescue Mission New Life Program

Rex Baker

Hello, I'm Rex Baker, your host today on More Than a Shelter, a production of Gateway Rescue Mission. At Gateway Rescue Mission we're in good old Jackson Mississippi. We have this program that we call our New Life Program and it's basically an addiction recovery program, six months residential. We're going to talk a little bit about that today with Brad Hancock. Brad, you went through our program a couple of years back and now you're working with us, working with guys coming into the program. So what I want to talk about is what's going on in an individual's mind. They're out there somewhere, they're on drugs or some kind of an addiction of that type, alcohol, or whatever substance and they come to us and say "I want help, I would like to join your program. So you pick it up now and walk us through some of the things that that individual is dealing with and experiencing coming off drugs, coming into a treatment program.

Brad Hancock

Absolutely so. One of the number one scenarios that we see, usually not coming out of prison but coming off the streets. When a guy comes in our door and says, hey, you know what I'm done, usually by the time that he has hit our doorstep he has burnt absolutely every bridge that he possibly could burn. And what I mean by that is when you're hooked on drugs, you're manipulating your family, you're stealing from your friends. You know drugs will force you to do some things that you never thought you would do. So usually when a person hits our doorstep they are absolutely at their wit's end. They've got nowhere else to go. They know they have a problem and maybe they don't have insurance or one case or another, they come to Gateway. Maybe they're just looking for something different or a place to stay at night, and they hear about our program and, like "ou know what, I want to do something different. So we do an intake process on them and we get them in and I tell you that first week that they're in our program usually is the most crucial part of an individual and a client's time in our program. That first week is what we're going to see what they're made of, how serious are they?

Brad Hancock

A lot of these guys are coming in off either opiates or methamphetamine. They're dealing with a lot of mental health illnesses. They got court cases or warrants that they're running from. There's something going on in their life and there's a lot of these issues that they're coming in with that that first week that's on their mind. W hen they hit our doorstep the first day they're ready to change. But when they get a little food in them and they get rested up and that's when the rubber hits the road. Okay, is this guy serious? Is he willing to leave it all behind today? Or was it just looking for absence of pain instead of looking for a presence of change? A lot of the times we give them a grace period, especially if they're going through withdrawals or if you've been up for a couple days on meth, which is typically the case. A lot of guys we see come in and they can barely talk. They've been up for Lord knows how long and they're just trying to crash and lay down.

Rex Baker

You said in that first week that that's critical. What are some cues that you're looking for? Because everybody, when they come to Gateway Rescue Mission, a lot of these guys are going to know certain answers, you know the church type. " Well, I'm here to get closer to the Lord and that sort of thing, which some of them may be. We're not opposed to that, that's good, but what are the cues that you're looking for that will tell you in that first three days to a week that this guy's serious and maybe that guy over there is not.

Brad Hancock

So we got two guys walk through the door. of the guys come comes and they're absolutely broken, disgusted and can't be trusted, but willing to change. Another guy walks through the door in the exact same state or condition. Both of them get food in their stomach. Both of them get rested up. One of them's going to come in Brad's office and say, hey,"hey brad, is it okay if I use the phone? And then they start you know we allow them to use a phone for one reason or another. Sometimes we don't. Or hey,"hey brad, I'm not feeling real well, can I miss class?

Brad Hancock

So basically, the patterns that they're showing is basically what we're looking for. Hey, this guy's using the phone because he's got some sort of outside issue that he's getting ready to go. You know he's got some girlfriend he's trying to talk to back home. He still has not convinced himself that he's done. You know it ain't whooped him enough yet. The other scenario is is this guy is focused, he's applying himself, he's given the church answers, but he's actually walking it out. He's showing up to class. We don't really have to stay on him for him to do the things that he's supposed to do. Every person that comes to that door is going to be like "I'm ready to change, I'm ready to surrender my life. They give those church answers you're talking about. I've seen some grade A theologians come through that door that know the scripture more than I do, but when it matters is when they got to wake up at five o'clock in the morning and be down there for prayer.

Rex Baker

We refer to them sometimes as dorm room prophets.

Brad Hancock

That's right. That's right. We got a couple of them right now.

Rex Baker

Yeah, they come in first week or two and they know everything about, you know, they'd make Martin Luther and John Calvin look dumb, cause t hey've really got it going on and you know, okay, we've got a dorm room prophet here.

Brad Hancock

T hat's right. That's right. So the guys that come onto our doorstep. You know you got one guy, they both appear the same at first, but about that third day, if they're trying to get on that phone or if they're trying to sleep it in, and you got to really stay on them, "ey, man, get up, you got to go to class, you got to do these things. Once they realize that, "hey, this is going to take some work for my recovery and I'm going to actually have to pursue Jesus, I'm going to have to draw near to him, so he'll draw near to me, that's the moment that we realized this guy's going to make it. Or if that guy's not going to make it, I'll tell you one of the key things that we look for in that first week.

Brad Hancock

Usually by the time they come into our program, they've been through treatment before. Gateway Rescue Mission, I just hate to say it, it's not the first option. Usually they've had family support. Families put them through treatment at some point in their life or another. So they know the 12 steps, they know all the church answers, like you say. So when they come in they pretty much already know what's going on. We're looking for the guys that they kind of hang around and they're really focused. But the other guys that have come through, like I said, and know all the church answers this is what you'll see, "brad, I'm ready to change my life. Okay, come on. We're going to get you a bed."

Brad Hancock

Second day they're kind of shuffling around learning the ropes. "Hey, this is when I go to class. This is what I can do, this is what I'm supposed to do, this is what I can't do. Guys that are in our program already are showing them the ropes. T hat Third day this is what I mean by when the rubber hits the road right here, when they come into the office or they don't know I'm sitting in my office because my office is right there by the dorm and I start hearing the complaints. When you start hearing the complaints happen, you know this guy's getting ready to leave. "Oh man, you know the food's better at such and such at this treatment center, , oh, you know I could go here. And what turns from a heart of gratitude turns into a heart of ungratefulness, and what they're doing is they're trying to find every negative thing that they can about the situation so they can convince themselves to leave, and that in they're leaving, an addict's mind will justify anything.

Rex Baker

So it's not his fault

Brad Hancock

It's just his addiction talking. His addiction ain't done. His body may be, he may think he's done, but his addiction is still roaring like a lion with inside of him.

Rex Baker

The addict never sleeps. Wise man told me that one time.

Brad Hancock

Absolutely, absolutely. So. When you start hearing him complain about every little thing or complain about what other people are doing, that's when they're getting ready to go. I know a wise man once told me when I first came into the program I was a theologian. I had all the church answers and I was upset about some other things my fellow programmers were doing or conversations they were having. And I sat down in the chapel and I explained to this staff member. I said "you know this guy, I can't. Is this where the Lord really wants me? And this, that and the other. And that staff member told me well, brad, you're here for you, nobody else, and that's everywhere you go. You're going to have people there for the right reasons and the wrong reasons." And that really stuck with me that day.

Rex Baker

That was a really wise man.

Brad Hancock

That was a really, really wise man.

Rex Baker

Brad, walk us through, for we may have some people listening who hear terms and withdrawals when you're coming off drugs. You've been there, what's that like?

Brad Hancock

So different drugs have different withdrawals and detox symptoms. Now, a physical withdrawal is something that your body is going through that is absolutely out of your control. A mental withdrawal in an addiction is a whole other subject. But your physical dependent drugs are benzodiapines, alcohol and opiates, which is predominantly fentanyl. Heroin are the opiates, the painkillers. Benzodiapines are Xanax, klonopin, a lot of your anxiety medications and then obviously alcohol. These have physical symptoms, and what I mean by physical symptoms is you are on the brink of death it feels like. Y ou have done these things so long to where your body has become physically dependent on these substances, not just to function but just to be in a healthy state. We call it dope sick. A person's getting dope sick. W hat those withdrawals feel like, when I first come into the program, I can have it all in my head that, "hey, I want to do this, I want to change, but my body is telling me the exact opposite.

Brad Hancock

My body is saying "ou are going to die if you don't get some more heroin or you don't get some more opiates." And it only gets worse as time goes on. So you're going through nausea, upset stomach. You feel like your bones are being stretched and they have fire ants on them. That's the only way that I can explain how it feels. Like you can't sleep because your body is jerking a lot and you know, the only thing that's crossing your mind is whatever drug that's making you detox. You know "I need more heroin. I got to. The only thing that's going to make me feel better is this, this, this, and maybe I can just do it one more time, and maybe I can just, you know, go to an outpatient treatment center and just do a little bit on the side, or maybe" and that's where that insanity comes in, to, where your body is creating such a pain in your life at that very moment, your mind is going to talk you into going right back to the same thing that's causing that.

Addiction Withdrawal Symptoms and Recovery

Rex Baker

So that sounds like you're describing coming off opiates there. How long will that state of withdrawal where you feel like, "ey, I'm going to die, I'm hurting, I'm nauseous, how long does that ? last

Brad Hancock

So depending on the opiate, it could be anywhere from three to five days. S even days to two weeks at tops if it's something like Suboxone or synthetic opiate. Each person's different but if you've been doing it, it doesn't take long to get withdrawals. If you've been heavily on opiates, it could be the doctor gave you a prescription for 30 days of Lortabs because you got a broken bone or a tooth pulled or something. If you're taking them, eventually you may not realize that's what you're going through, but you're going to have some small withdrawal symptoms. But eventually, if you're on something like heroin and you graduate to that and you're doing it and slamming heroin every single day, you're going to go through three to five days of absolute torture. I remember one time I was so sick I couldn't stop puking enough, or dry heaving enough to catch my breath to breathe. I was in a holding cell and I just remember crying out to God. I'm like "God, just please make this stop. I will never, ever, ever do this again. But as soon as I got well, I got some food in my stomach my addiction talked me into doing it again. But when you're in that moment, I tell you. I believe everybody that's been through detox symptoms, has called upon the name of the Lord. I know they have, because it will make a believer out of you.

Rex Baker

What about a crystal meth and the withdrawals from that?

Brad Hancock

So crystal meth is a little bit different. Your body doesn't get physically dependent on it. So what I mean by that is you're not going to get dope sick, you're not going to go through um so it's the science behind it. You're not going to go through cold sweats and stuff like that coming off of it. But crystal meth what it does to your body is it depletes every bit of nutrients that you have, every bit of energy that you have. All your dopamines and your endorphins are messed up from doing it for so long to where, by the time you hit our doorstep at Gateway, you ain't seen nothing but a hot pocket in a week for food. You haven't slept in five to six days. You're hearing and seeing things that aren't there because you're going through schizophrenia, mental health problems caused by crystal meth and you just haven't been to bed. So sleep deprivation will definitely make you hear and see stuff, and we're trying to get a Benadryl in you just to lay you down, just to get you settled, get some food in you and let you rest up and then from there we can see what's going on with you. We really can't even see what's going on with you until you've had some sleep and until you've got some food in your stomach.

Brad Hancock

But I know a lot of the times when I was coming off crystal meth. I would just be so hungry and so tired and my body would just be so tired for weeks and weeks. It was probably like the third week before I could even just get up and really do anything as far as like physical, heavy manual labor. Just because your body is so depleted. Y ou're super paranoid, super paranoid, and that comes with doing it and coming off of it. But especially when you're coming off of it because, like I said, you've been up and you just think everybody's out to get you.

Brad Hancock

We had a guy come in our program one time. He was actually coming from prison and there's an abundance of drugs in prison. He got there and me and Gerald looked at each other and we said "this guy is high as a witch doctor right now and I was like, hey, man, you want a haircut. So we brought him into the chapel to give him a haircut, to try to talk to him and calm him down, because he was just jerking everywhere, looking around and I'm cutting the guy's hair and every time I would try to get a strip done, I'm just giving him a buzz cut, he would jerk back real quick and he would look and he said "who's under there? And he'd be looking at the drum set in the chapel. I said there's nobody in there, man. I said you're all right, you're cool, you're safe here, nobody's going to hurt you. You're in good hands here."

Brad Hancock

And every strip he jerked back again. Finally he said "man, "I got to go to the bathroom. And I went to the bathroom. I knew right then and there this guy's fixing to tear out of here. He's gone. And sure enough, we walked out that front door and he was high tailing it down Gallatin Street just because the drug had made him so paranoid. He thought people were out to get him, they were going to kill him. You know it's tough and getting a person to just settle down long enough for them to realize, "hey, my life is in shambles and I need something different and I need some help Just getting them to a state to where they can comprehend that just a little bit. It's a tough, tough job.

Rex Baker

So when we've gone out on our outreach ministry, where we go out to people on the streets and the homeless camps, we've come across somebody that would just be laid out on the sidewalk, asleep. Is that crystal meth usually?

Brad Hancock

Absolutely. They've probably been up a couple days and your body will shut down. Your brain ain't going to shut down on you, but your body eventually will just shut down.

Brad Hancock

I remember I'd stayed up for like seven or eight days and I was walking through Edgewater Mall in Biloxi and my body was shutting down. And you don't know it until you know it. You know you think you're, you're running at a hundred miles an hour, you're high and all of a sudden you just feel like the only way I can describe it is if you need sugar. Your body gets weak because you need sugar. It's sort of like the same feeling. You get real lightheaded, your bones feel real light and your legs feel like rubber and all of a sudden these black, kind of dark out flashes start coming in. You're like "man. It's uh. I got about 15 seconds until wherever I'm standing, that's where I'm going to be asleep." Maybe not everybody, but guys that I see laid out on Gallatin street that are just laid out and you can't tell them no different. It's either they're knotted off on fentanyl or they've been up too many days on meth.

Rex Baker

We saw one individual a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday morning. He was just laid out asleep on the street. We come up to him and I kind of tried to wake him up and he sort of came out of it. We gave him a donut, a bottle of water. He ate the donut, drank some of the water and meanwhile he's just laid out on the sidewalk right off the street and he never got up from that position the whole time we were there.

Brad Hancock

When they're in that kind of state of psychosis, they're not even going to remember that you were even there.

Rex Baker

Wow!

Brad Hancock

I mean, I've woken up in a holding cell before and I didn't know I was there. I didn't know, and they were like "man, you got a public intoxication. I'm like for what they said we found you asleep at the Marriott Hotel lobby in the middle of the lobby floor." And I don't remember how I got there and it wasn't like it was a blackout drunk situation or anything, it's just because you have been up for so long and you're just in a complete hypnotic psychosis. Really, it's really tough, especially when it comes to evangelism reaching these guys on the streets, because you've got to have them somewhat coherent to be able to convince them of something different. It's really, really tough.

Rex Baker

And that's what we're running into. It's like you want to tell someone "hey, we've got a program that can help you if you are addicted to crystal meth. But they're in such a spaced out frame of mind that I'm not even sure they would hear us if we told them that.

Brad Hancock

I know a lot of the times when people fall out from being up too long or fall out from being on dope. They got to give them an IV with fluids. They got to start pumping some fluids in them and kind of revive them.

Rex Baker

So let's bring this back around. We've got our guy coming into the program. He's coming off some type of hard drugs type of hard drugs, and this may also be applicable for family members out here who have someone in the family that they're trying to, that's addicted. They're trying to bring them back in and they see certain things and it just blows their mind because it does mine sometimes, where it's like, what do the drugs do to short-term memory?

Brad Hancock

When you're high chances of you remembering anything you were doing while you were high are slim. I've been a part of different interventions where the family is trying to convey their concerns and their worries and intervene in the destructive pattern of the client and the clients, they don't even know. "Man, you guys are being too rough on me, I don't have that big or bad of a problem. Or being too rough on me, I don't have that big or bad of a problem. But that's because they don't remember when their mom tells them you know, "john, you pushed me against the wall and stole money out of my purse. Or hey, john, you took our generator to the pawn shop." They don't remember any of these things and so in their mind they're thinking you know, their problem isn't that big and they can't truly put their head around what's really going on in their life.

Rex Baker

So sometimes we see people come through that they joined the program today. It's two or three days or two or three weeks later. Maybe they are helping out in housekeeping or some area like that and you tell them every day you need to come in and clean the floor, mop the floor, whatever. And the first day they mop the floor. Second day you come back in there the floor hasn't been mopped. "What's going on? And the guys are like oh, I didn't know, I was supposed to mop the floor. Because their brain's shot. They can't remember. They have to rebuild that part of the brain back over time.

Brad Hancock

Absolutely. And it definitely takes time. You can have the greatest curriculum. Y ou can have all the clinical staff and the medical staff. Y ou can have a million dollar budget. B ut the only thing that is going to solve that area in their recovery is time. You have to give them time and grace and just kind of bear with them and walk them through their failures and faults for their body to naturally regenerate some of that memory, some of that muscle memory, just all the things that your body's shaken back from and kind of recovering to. There's this one client we deal with and we can definitely see that in his recovery because we tell this guy the same thing every day and bless his heart. You can look at the sincerity in his eyes and know that he does not remember us telling him that. And it's nothing big. Like you said, it's just a little stuff like "hey, this is how you answer the phone, this is" you know.

Rex Baker

What about alcohol? I mean, we talk a lot about fentanyl, that gets a lot of attention, meth, but alcohol is still out there too.

Brad Hancock

That is probably one of the hardest animals that we come across,

Rex Baker

Really. How so?

Brad Hancock

The reason why is because a drunk, when they're coming off alcohol, their withdrawals have the ability to kill them. They can go into a seizure. They can fall off one of our beds in the middle of the night and have a seizure and we have great security around there. So circumstances to where in county jails you know, people have died off alcohol withdrawals. B ut you get an alcoholic in, it's kind of different. You don't know until that first week, you don't know until later in the week. So the alcoholic will come in and he will apply himself. He'll get through the shakes. H e'll get through all the physical parts and he will be focused. But later on, towards the end of the week, is when that bottle is going to start calling him. W hen things are together, when he's achieved something that he feels like is good enough. "Okay, I've done a week here so I can go out there and get me another drink."

Rex Baker

"I'm sober now. I can handle it.

Brad Hancock

Yeah, "I detoxed, I had a bad fall, I can go back out there. And that's the way the alcoholics mind thinks is okay,"okay I'm going to get through the shakes, check, I'm going to achieve something, check. But once I've got through the shakes and I've achieved what I feel to be good enough, I'm about to run back out there. Another thing you deal with with alcoholics is that you got some mean drunks. They're really, really mean. They've been drinking a long, long time, and with an alcoholic, usually their circumstances have to speak for themselves. And what I mean by when I say that is if I start shooting crystal meth. meth, know shooting crystal meth was wrong the first time I did it. Alcoholics on the other hand hand, takes them a while for them to realize that alcohol is a problem in their life, because everybody drinks. So some alcoholics, even coming through our door, don't realize that they have a problem with alcohol. Sometimes we have dual addictions and a person thinks, oh,"oh I just need to get off the crystal meth but I can still drink, and getting them convinced that they can't do that that, that's ruining their life too is a whole nother other. So alcoholics as far as getting them to stay and maintaining their sobriety is one of the hardest things that we deal with. We had a client that's been through our program and he's left and we've tried to convince him to stay every single time and he'll still come around, but that bottle will call him after a while and it's hard. It's hard because with an alcoholic you don't know they're drunk unless they're drunk. Drugs you can. can, ain't going to be no secret. If somebody's shooting mad, meth they're going to be trying to pull apart a car in a parking lot.

Rex Baker

Brad, you mentioned time and I have a theory on this. It may not work this way every time, and I'm not trying to put down one program over the other, but if you take one of the private recovery programs that is expensive and they go, stay 30, 60, or 90 days and then they come out and you take somebody who goes through the program at the homeless shelter and ours is six months. After the program, is there a nickel's worth of difference between, because you've still got to put in that time, and usually 30, 60, 90 days is not enough. You're just getting started. So I think sometimes we lose sight of that. That really time it's not going to, you see people that go to treatment and we've had this with our people too sometimes, "Well, the program's going to fix me, so then I can get fixed at Gateway Rescue Mission, or I can get fixed at this clinic or that program, and then they think they can go back out and start doing what they used to do again and then they fall on their face.

Brad Hancock

Yeah, absolutely. Like a dog returning to its vomit.

Rex Baker

Yep.

Brad Hancock

A fool to his foolishness. We've seen it. They get guys, get to the end of the program. They get the case of the "I gotta" us. I got to get a job, got to get the money, got to get the girl. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta," you know. But as far as comparison to 30 day programs, to our program, I will say this. I do love to toot our own horn every now and then.

Rex Baker

That's okay, that's why we're here.

Brad Hancock

Yeah, I would love to put our numbers and our statistics up. As far as clean urine screens up to any other, whether it be secular or faith-based, I would love to put our statistics up against any other program out there. We very rarely have people relapse while they're in our program, if they have stayed over a month or two months. Now, as far as creating a sustainable, independent life that is focused and centered in Christ and maintaining long-term sobriety, I can't speak for everybody on the planet, but I can speak for the community that we serve in Ground Zero Jackson Mississippi. You will not take somebody out of Ground Zero Jackson Mississippi and put them in a program less than six months and they're going to achieve some sort of long-term independent life. Sober and rooted in Christ. It's not going to happen. T hat 30 days, the only thing that has happened in 30 days, is they got four phone calls, prescription of some medicine and some food in their stomach. That's it. That's the only thing that's happened, and you can do that in the county jail. So that's not creating anything. That's just barely creeping over the threshold. Some guys ain't even made their bed until the 31st day, let alone applied anything in their recovery or created any sort of communities or disciplines or learned any tools for their recovery.

Rex Baker

Switch gears here to cocaine. B een around here a long time. What do you see when someone is coming off cocaine?

Brad Hancock

Cocaine. I don't say I had a problem with it. I've done cocaine. Cocaine is very short-lived, so it has a half-life. It doesn't keep you high very long and you got to do a lot of it, especially crack cocaine. So if you got to do a lot of it and it's short-lived, that means you're going to be running out of money really really quick. It means you're going to be stealing, catching charges, you're going to be burning bridges really really quick. So it doesn't take long for the cocaine addict to realize that he needs something different in his life. Predominantly that's what we see a lot other than methamphetamine. We see a lot of older people that just kind of went through that pandemic, I guess in the 80s and the 90s when crack cocaine was really a huge thing and they never graduated onto other drugs. But still to this day they struggle with crack cocaine. One thing that I've seen with crack cocaine, coming off of it is that they need some sleep, they need some food in their stomach, but a cocaine addict is a wild card, sort of like a drunk. You never know when a cocaine addict is going to relapse, at least from what, I'm speaking from my experience. You never know. I've seen cocaine addicts go five, six, seven, eight years and then, out of the blue, out of nowhere, has everything going on perfect in their life, will just decide "hey, I'm going to go smoke crack today and I don't think there's a person on the planet that can understand it. They just don't know. I t's one of the planet that can understand it, or they just don't know. It's one of the mysteries that I think on this side of glory, we're not going to understand.

Rex Baker

I definitely agree with you, Brad. I've seen over the years people come into our program, coming off crack and they do great, they are the model program guy and you don't see the relapse coming, you don't see the slip coming. You just come in one day and "hey, this guy got high the other night. I mean he was doing so good, yeah,

Rex Baker

All right, marijuana Marijuana it's still around, it hasn't gone anywhere and it's coming back with medical marijuana and you can see the THC gummies in the convenience stores a lot of times. Now, at least in our area, are there any withdrawals or anything that marijuana would cause?

Brad Hancock

Well, marijuana. A lot of times we see that as kind of a dual addiction in our program. I can't say that we have people come through our door and say, "hey, I want the six-month program because I'm addicted to marijuana. But I will say this, I can guarantee you when they come through our door, that's the way it started. That is exactly the way it started, or that's the way it made round two in their life, which means, okay, "I was a crack addict or I was a fentanyl addict, or whatever you want to name it, and I was clean for five years. But all of a sudden I got this THC vape from the store because I thought it was okay. Or I got this kratom gummy" or whatever it is that they're pushing. It's "okay." Marijuana, you know you get a lot of laziness, a lot of fatigue. N ot as bad as methamphetamine and stimulants that make you stay up for days at a time but just a lack of ambition. Because, like I said, it's kind of like alcohol. Their circumstances have to convince them that they need something different. You're not going to be able to. If you walk up to somebody who smokes weed and try to convince them that they have a problem with weed, good luck. They're going to say oh "well, it's natural and it's okay and it's medicinal.

Rex Baker

You hear a lot in our line of work that "do you have a drug problem? No, I don't have a drug problem. I just smoke a little weed every now and then.

Brad Hancock

Yeah, yeah, I was like yeah, and in the back of my head I'm thinking for now.

Rex Baker

And you're right. It is a gateway drug. When men in our program share their histories, it usually started at an early age smoking cigarettes, drinking beer or alcohol and smoking marijuana. You don't have anybody that just never did any of that stuff. And all of a sudden "you know, I think I'll go out and smoke crack today.

Brad Hancock

It's definitely in the resume. If you dig deep enough, it's in the pattern chain of events that led to it. We've had guys, since different laws have been passed, have come in and say "Brad, you think I can get my medical marijuana card. I said, well, why do you want it? He says, you know, because I believe it'll help me. It's medication. I said so you just want to go smoke weed? He said yeah. I said well, you don't need a card for that. You can go right down the street and do that right now." But I said, "let me ask you this you can draw snake venom out of a snake. It's got some medicinal purposes, potentially helping many different ways. Does that mean I'm going to pick up a snake and put it in my pocket? Absolutely not. So do I think marijuana has medicinal purposes, probably in its right form in a pill or something under doctor supervision. But I'm not going to go to the store and get me a THC vape or smoke a joint. Same way I'm not going to go pick up a snake.

Finding Hope Through Gospel Recovery

Rex Baker

That's a very good metaphor. I may borrow that from you sometime. Use it when I'm speaking somewhere. All right, we've been talking with Brad Hancock, who works with our New Life program on our staff at Gateway Rescue Mission, and I'm Rex Baker, the Executive Director of Gateway Rescue Mission. Brad, we've talked about a lot of bad things here that happen when people come off drugs, but is there hope out there?

Brad Hancock

Absolutely. A bsolutely. A nd the only hope is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Rex Baker

Brad, thank you very much for joining us on this episode of More Than a Shelter, and I want to thank all of you for listening. So until we meet again, may the Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift up his countenance on you and give you peace.

Head Shot

Rex Baker

Host