Mastering Recruiting: Why Building Genuine Relationships Will Always Matter

Mastering Recruiting: Why Building Genuine Relationships Will Always Matter #recruiting #executiverecruiting #talentacquisition 

In this interview with Janelle Razzino, we get deep into the core of successful recruiting, building genuine relationships. Please visit our website to get more information: https://swangroup.net/ 

While the landscape of recruiting has changed, the value of human connection remains paramount. Janelle shares her insights on why recruiting is all about people, how relationships shape the hiring process, and how understanding others can lead to hiring success.

You’ll learn:
How recruiting has evolved over time and why relationships are still key
The importance of building trust in the hiring process
The role of AI in recruitment and how it complements human judgment
Strategies for leaders and HR professionals to enhance their recruiting efforts

Whether you're a recruiter, HR professional, or someone looking to improve your hiring processes, this video will provide valuable insights for better recruitment.

✅ Get to know more about Janelle Razzino:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/janellerazzino 
✅ Learn more about Razzino Associates, Inc.: http://www.razzinoassociates.com

🔔𝐃𝐨𝐧'𝐭 𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐠𝐞𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐬𝐮𝐛𝐬𝐜𝐫𝐢𝐛𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐥 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐞 𝐮𝐩𝐝𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐬.
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-swan-group/ 
Website:  https://swangroup.net/   

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#recruiting #executiverecruiting #talentacquisition #recruitmenttips #hiringstrategies #humanresources

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:11 Janelle’s start in executive recruiting
• 5:31 How HR changed the recruiting landscape
• 14:08 The rise of AI in hiring
• 18:15 Why relationships still matter
• 32:35 Preparing for a market rebound
• 45:00 The importance of networking and soft skills
• 47:44 Janelle’s favorite concert memory

Transcript

Steve Swan [00:00:00]:
Up next, join me on Biotech Bytes with Janelle Razzino, seasoned executive recruiter. As her and I go through the ins and outs of recruiting in today's marketplace and what you can do to position yourself best for the talent maze that exists out there today in 2025. You can find us on YouTube, Spotify or Apple. Look forward to seeing you there. Thank you. Welcome to Biotech Bytes where we talk to IT leaders within biotechnology. I'm your host, Steve sw and today I'm taking a little bit of a different direction. Today I'm being joined by a colleague in our business, Janelle Razzino.

Steve Swan [00:00:38]:
Janelle is the president and founder of Razzino Associates. Thank you for joining us, Steve.

Janelle Razzino [00:00:44]:
Thanks for asking me to join you this morning. This is, this is, it's fun for me.

Steve Swan [00:00:50]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:00:51]:
I know that you and I share a lot of not only executive search stories, but a lot of the same philosophies in what's going on out there.

Steve Swan [00:01:03]:
We've had a lot of conversations about this over, over the recent past and that's why I thought when we started talking about getting you on this would be just great, just a free flowing conversation. But before we get going, I don't, I just want to remind our viewers, you know, don't forget to check us out on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and if you like what you hear or you enjoy what you hear, like us and follow us. All right, so before we get going with our conversation though, I just want to give our viewers a quick rundown from, from you on you. Right. How did you get to where you are, how long you've been doing this, that kind of stuff?

Janelle Razzino [00:01:38]:
Long time, Steve. So I started out in New York working with a firm, small firm, you know, boutique firm, five people. And three years into the role, into working with them, I built an audit practice, you know, for them. But I built it up here in New Jersey. And prior to that I was in sales with a small oil company called Exxon seven years and then went to Rome telecommunications after Exxon pulled the plug on a particular product. And we all went to at that time, Headhunter in New York City, 42nd Street. And the owner asked me not to leave. So I jumped in.

Janelle Razzino [00:02:17]:
Didn't know what audit was, but I knew what sales was. And I think that was the, you know, that was it. So if you remember, there was a CPA book that was about this thick and the lines, you needed a magnifier to get everybody's name and number. And my job was to call every CPA firm. Every CPA person in that book, and get every EDP auditor. That's how I started. Three years in, I encouraged the owner to open up a job, an office in New Jersey. He said no.

Janelle Razzino [00:02:54]:
I built a big practice up here in IT audit with all the manufacturing companies. And back then, everybody was on Wall street putting in focus reporters ten at a time. I had no interest in Wall street, so I built the manufacturing desk for audit and blew it to the roof. Three years later, I opened up my own firm and it's all she wrote. And I've been here.

Steve Swan [00:03:23]:
Good, good. I love it. I love it.

Janelle Razzino [00:03:26]:
And doing much more. You know, it. Audit, Audit, accounting, finance. And it.

Steve Swan [00:03:32]:
Okay, okay. So you focus on it as well, because that's really where I am. I don't do. Every once in a while we get audit, but I don't do a lot of audit work, you know, and then.

Janelle Razzino [00:03:40]:
You know, we do some sales. We do hr, of course, and some marketing. Good.

Steve Swan [00:03:46]:
Okay. So. So pretty well rounded.

Janelle Razzino [00:03:48]:
Yeah. 35 plus years.

Steve Swan [00:03:50]:
Yeah, I know.

Janelle Razzino [00:03:51]:
Long time. But I love it. You know, I love it every day. You know, there's. It's not a job. You and I have talked about this.

Steve Swan [00:03:59]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:03:59]:
Though if you love it every day and you come in every day and you have a good time, you know, that's the name of the game. So it doesn't feel like work.

Steve Swan [00:04:07]:
It's a different challenge. It's a different. You know, I always say it's part science. I just did a post recently, part science, part art. You know, and the science piece is the metrics and the stuff people don't see right behind the scenes. The art piece is the interaction. And that's the piece that, in my opinion, is. Is real interesting.

Steve Swan [00:04:24]:
You know, it's different every day with each person. The chemistry is different, the situations are different. The chemistry between those two people, different between me and someone else is different. You know, that whole thing.

Janelle Razzino [00:04:33]:
So absolutely all the parts are different. Every day, every situation, no matter what. A very unique. Every word, every person, every, everything. It's amazing.

Steve Swan [00:04:45]:
Totally different. Yeah. And it's great to talk to people and get to meet them. Right.

Janelle Razzino [00:04:49]:
And. And when you think about how many people you and I have met over the years, it's crazy. It is. You couldn't count it. You really count it.

Steve Swan [00:04:59]:
I was doing a. I was, I was working with a firm. A CIO had gotten in touch with me several years ago, and I helped him find, you know, a CISO type of person. Right. And then on the interview panel of that ciso. I see a name that I recognized, and I got in touch with him. I go, what are you doing over there? I placed him back in 07. I've known him since 04.

Steve Swan [00:05:23]:
He was a hiring manager at one point. Then he left that place and I placed him, and so on and so forth. And now he's over at this particular place. And now I've since started staffing up his group. But again, it's just, you know, you know, so many folks, so many folks.

Janelle Razzino [00:05:37]:
And I think today, because of us knowing so many people and having so many good connections and relationships, you know, relationship is right. It's at the top of that list. I think that you and I are able to help more candidates today than ever before because of those relationships. You know, four, five, six times a day, you know, somebody will reach out and say, janelle, I saw you're connected to so and so over at XYZ company Can you make an introduction? And Steve, I know that if I send an email or a LinkedIn connection or no to those first connections, they will answer me, and they always do. No matter if we spoke, what, five years ago, seven years ago, it doesn't matter. They will.

Steve Swan [00:06:30]:
They remember if you. If, you know, they always say people don't remember what you say. They remember how you make them feel, though. Right. You know, and if you leave them with a good impression, you know, like you've done your best and you haven't. You haven't messed something up, you haven't missed something, you know, then, hey, let's. Let's talk again in the future. Right? Whether it was somebody from 05 or somebody from three years ago.

Steve Swan [00:06:49]:
So now let me ask you a question. And this is kind of the kickoff of where I think we may go. And you and I have talked about this in the past, but I want to really hear what do you think or what do you see or what are you feeling as our biggest challenge? Not for what you and I do, but in the whole job search sort of landscape right now. Right. What is. I mean, it's changed a lot, Right? And there's certain things that have happened, I think, over the last year or two. Is there something that comes to mind immediately when you think about that or when you talk to somebody about that? You know, what, what's. What's.

Steve Swan [00:07:25]:
What's the biggest struggle right now? What's the biggest thing right now? That. That's sort of the stumbling block for most folks.

Janelle Razzino [00:07:30]:
All right, well. Well, let's back it Up a couple more years in that.

Steve Swan [00:07:34]:
Sure.

Janelle Razzino [00:07:35]:
I think the beginning of all of that change started when HR wanted to get a seat at the table.

Steve Swan [00:07:42]:
Okay.

Janelle Razzino [00:07:43]:
And if you remember, I'm sure you do, when we were working with hiring managers directly, you know, looking for talent, they knew what we could do. They knew the type of people that we could produce because we knew them and we knew their personalities and that's where the relationship was. And so we felt good about making sure that those, that the right people showed up at the right time. Well, you know, having a, you know, then human resources walked in the door and said, hey, listen, we want to be part of that. Whether that comes from all the way at the top, top down, I get it. But human resources since then, that's where the change started. Last couple of two to four years, very difficult because not only did they become the gatekeeper, you know, we use that word way back when, you couldn't get past hr, you couldn't get past this person. Well, relationships don't die all of a sudden because somebody says so, you know, or you can't talk to Steve or you can't talk to Janelle, or you can't, you know, talk to Mary or Bob.

Janelle Razzino [00:08:49]:
Well, when did that happen? And when did companies decide that HR held the gavel?

Steve Swan [00:08:58]:
It happened slowly, I agree, but it happened, right?

Janelle Razzino [00:09:00]:
It did. And I think that is the beginning, that was the beginning of the difficulty or a little harder sell, you know, into an organization. You know, we talked to major big time companies, you and I both do. We talked to the mid cap companies, we talked to the small guys. And it would seem that the small cap mid cap companies have a little less stringency, you know, when it comes to hiring because you deal with the founder, the president, the owner of the company.

Steve Swan [00:09:38]:
The process is less mature, right?

Janelle Razzino [00:09:40]:
Yeah, less, yes, a lot less. Even companies, 700 million, 800 million, a billion, 2 billion even their processes are still, you know, intact in terms of being able to deal. You and I have long relationships with great clients that keep us on for years because they know we know who they are.

Steve Swan [00:10:01]:
Right? Yeah. I had a conversation once. Oh boy. I would say this is probably, it wasn't quite 10 years ago now, but it was a company that at the time I had been working. Well, I've been working with him still about 16 years, 17 years now. So, you know, at the time I was working with him five, six years and I don't know what the number was then, but I've placed, you know, more than 50 folks with this company, right? And so one of the HR guys came to me because he knew I had lunch every once in a while with some of the people I placed because, I mean, I, I made friends with these folks, right? And we spent a lot of time on the phone and then all of a sudden it's like the school year ends and we place them and it's done and we're never going to talk to them again. We get their signature in our yearbook and it's like, have a good summer. Well, I, it's not like that.

Steve Swan [00:10:44]:
You know, they, they, they got to know us, they got to befriend us. We were the face of the company for them and the information for so long that we got them in there, you know, and, you know, I had several people say to me, well, Steve, you know, I had two or three opportunities going and the reason why I took this one was because of you. You know, you were calling me twice a week, you were giving me data, you were giving me information. But then the HR person would call me and say, hey, you can't talk to our people anymore. I'm like, well, they're my friends now. I go to lunch with them. I mean, I'm not quite sure how. I just say to them, hey, thanks, but no thanks, gotta go.

Steve Swan [00:11:15]:
It was a transaction because it's not for us, you know, it's not a transaction kind of thing. So it's, it's making, like we said, long term relationships. So I don't know it, that, that kind of went by the wayside. And it seems to be doing more and more of that over the recent past, you know.

Janelle Razzino [00:11:33]:
Yeah, and I think the last couple of years, you know, the last two to four years as they became, as HR became a much louder voice about all kinds of things because the attorneys would say, listen, you can't say anything, you can't talk to anybody, you can't do this, you can't lawsuit, blah, blah, blah. You know, we are a litigious society. You know, you don't want anybody, you know, suing the company. And I think HR forgot what they're there for. We work with Fortune companies. I'll bet you and I both have companies where HR still comes on the back end for the offer letter because we're dealing with the C suite, because we're dealing with the people that we should be dealing with because they know what they want. HR doesn't know what they want. And I'm sure that those companies that we deal with that uses HR to come in on the back end are still out there and we're working with them.

Steve Swan [00:12:31]:
There are.

Janelle Razzino [00:12:32]:
Yes, yes. And our relationships as have carried us, you know, to that point. And we can count on them. It's a trust. Right. Do you know any HR person that trusts you?

Steve Swan [00:12:47]:
Well, I do, actually. I got some, you know, so.

Janelle Razzino [00:12:51]:
Yeah, but do they. Because they really know you. And do you. When you talk about a candidate, do they know what they do?

Steve Swan [00:12:58]:
Well, so I got. I got to stick up for the HR person here. Two things. Number one, they recruit for executive assistance. Salespeople, IT people, security people. So there's a lot going on there. You and I are specialists. Right.

Steve Swan [00:13:12]:
So they won't be as deep as you and me, but then secondarily, or maybe primarily HR is there to basically make sure that they keep the company out of trouble.

Janelle Razzino [00:13:23]:
Well, right, that do that. That do that. Then. Then. Then keep the company out of trouble. Yeah. And leave the recruiting end. You know, they all built big talent acquisition groups.

Steve Swan [00:13:36]:
They did, yes.

Janelle Razzino [00:13:37]:
And what you and I hear. And, And. And quite honestly, what you and I hear from some of these TA people. Yeah, it is horrendous.

Steve Swan [00:13:47]:
Some of it is. Yeah. But there definitely are some that'll say to me, hey, listen, CC me. CC me. You know, I'll stay out of the loop for now, but just CC me so I can. Yes, I record of it and all that stuff, which is fine if they don't want to, you know, if they. If they take it off their plate and they give it to me because it's too much of a, you know, make it up. They're working on 20 wrecks.

Steve Swan [00:14:06]:
They only have two hours each. Two hours a week for each wreck. This wreck that I'm working on in I don't service now, I'm just making that up. Whatever is taking them six hours a week, well, that's wrecking their budget, right. You know, of two hours a week per roll. So that's why they hand it to me and then they say, cc me and I can keep track of it and all that stuff. Right. So I do have those relationships.

Steve Swan [00:14:26]:
But then, like you said, there are the cases where, you know, you know.

Janelle Razzino [00:14:30]:
It'S not working because they're not looking at the. They don't know how to look at the resume and say, this person does the job. They're not those people. HR or TA are not those people. They can only look at words because you and I have been in that business for this business for so long. You know, we have a pretty good handle you know, on what jobs are and what people do and how they do it. And we know the questions to ask. And we're, you know, high, touch high, vet high.

Janelle Razzino [00:15:01]:
Everything that streamlines that process for the client. And I know that HR is inundated, believe me. You know, I spoke to a company earlier. Today's Wednesday. I spoke to a company on Friday and I said. And I said to them, so I saw you've got, you know, worlds in Houston, Orlando, New York. So help me understand a little bit about, you know, we can do all three, and we can certainly work in those areas because we have clients in those areas. I got a return response.

Janelle Razzino [00:15:43]:
Janelle, thank you so much for reaching out. We have filled all the roles and all the roles that you see posted. We're going to fill those in Q4 and maybe Q1. Well, why then do you have them posted now?

Steve Swan [00:16:05]:
I think we're seeing a lot of that. That's another subject we can talk about here.

Janelle Razzino [00:16:09]:
Okay, so here's what's happening. You know, HRs like, oh, I don't, you know, I have to put these out. I have to put it. You have to put them out. Candidates are responding. Nobody's getting an answer. Nobody's getting a response because they have no intention of hiring until Q4. Q1 now.

Janelle Razzino [00:16:26]:
So now who's making that decision?

Steve Swan [00:16:29]:
I don't know, but I think. What. Well, let's. Let's look at it from their side, and then let's look at it from the other side. Their side is we're going to build a pipeline. We're going to have resumes. We're going to. Okay, hold on, hold on.

Steve Swan [00:16:39]:
We're going to have a pipeline. We're going to. We're going to. We're going to. We're not going to talk, folks. We can't yet because we can't really talk about it. We're not going to fill it to Q4, Q1. But then the flip side is, as you and I both know, candidates see it, they get stale, right? They're wondering what's going on.

Steve Swan [00:16:52]:
They don't hear anything or see anything. And these are the conversations I have with companies is that, you know, once you do that and you sit on it, you know, then everybody in the marketplace that does what you do is wondering what is going on over there. They can't fill this role. It's been out there since July, and they're. They're just calling me in in January. That. That doesn't look great. You know, unless somebody Said to HR or the recruitment folks, hey, listen, you guys need a little something to do, so why don't you front run this thing a little bit, keep yourselves busy till we get there, you know, and that could be the case.

Steve Swan [00:17:23]:
I don't know. I don't know. Whatever.

Janelle Razzino [00:17:25]:
Well, how about this? So when I'm also told. And we, by the way, we all, we already have possibilities for those roles come September, come Q4 and Q1, well.

Steve Swan [00:17:35]:
Really, they're going to be gone.

Janelle Razzino [00:17:37]:
Well, did you make offers yet? If not, what makes you think those candidates are still going to be available? Because, Steve, let's be honest. Top talent does not last.

Steve Swan [00:17:49]:
It doesn't sit.

Janelle Razzino [00:17:50]:
No, it does not last. You get somebody that's talented, that's robust, that has a personality, that's a go, go, go, that wants, you know, that wants to work and do the right things and have the right credentials and the right skillset. History.

Steve Swan [00:18:05]:
Yeah, I'm working on a role right now.

Janelle Razzino [00:18:07]:
History.

Steve Swan [00:18:08]:
It's. It's a billion dollar company, CIO minus one. Right. And it's amazing to me, even though the market's a bit slow, each one of these folks that I like that I'm sending in, they're like, they're like, literally. One guy called me yesterday, goes, when it rains, it pours. You know, he's like, I got three different things going on right now. So I got to work turning. Yeah.

Steve Swan [00:18:29]:
I got to work through this thing in a few weeks, and they're not ready to work through it in a few weeks. They've been working on them for a few months. And I just started working on with them two weeks ago, three weeks ago, you know. So why is it.

Janelle Razzino [00:18:39]:
Why is it that you might get a call? Because I'm sure we both gotten these calls. So, Janelle, we've been. We know we're looking for a controller, right? Or we're looking for a cfo, and we've been looking for months.

Steve Swan [00:18:53]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:18:54]:
Okay.

Steve Swan [00:18:55]:
Yep.

Janelle Razzino [00:18:55]:
Number one, why did I get the call last?

Steve Swan [00:18:58]:
Right?

Janelle Razzino [00:18:59]:
You tried to do it on your own. This is the bigger problem, right? We don't know what they're looking for, and they don't know, you know, what would be the piece of the puzzle. So they call you or I. We get to understand we know what the company is. We know. We know who's there, we know the personalities. And why does it take us only either a matter of days or a couple of weeks to find a slate of candidates that are.

Steve Swan [00:19:28]:
Well. So going back to what we said before, you know, the HR folks are generalists. They handle everything. You and I are specialists. Right. So we've been doing this for a couple weeks plus. Right. And so we have a long standing group of folks we can call our relationships and say, hey, listen, I'm working on a CIO minus one, and they need to have this, this or this, you know, and other folks will send me to this person, that person, and like, wow, I really like this person, you know, so that's, that's how, and that's why.

Steve Swan [00:19:58]:
Right. I, I think, you know, a lot of it is. And, and also we've been motivated over the years because we focus. We're so pinpoint focused, you know, and we get paid for a fill. We don't get paid for an interview. Right. We get paid for fills. Right.

Steve Swan [00:20:11]:
So we've been motivated to hone our craft and to hone our expertise. And again, unfortunately, the folks that work in the, in the corporations, you know, they don't get as, as pinpoint paid like we do to fill that particular role. And they, they get a salary and they have, they have a whole bunch of roles they're going to fill. So that's, it's just a different model. I always think, personally, this is just me, and I've said this before to them, that I believe that a company, when they post a role, it puts them at a distinct advantage. Why do I say that? People look at me funny. They're like, well, no, we get, we get our dragnet out and we get to pull them in. I said, I get that, but think about the way I operate.

Steve Swan [00:20:50]:
So the way you and I operate is, is I call some, I never post anything, so I call them, you know, and I talked to him about who are they, who do they, what do they want? Their personality. The personality of the company. The dollars hybrid versus all that stuff. I talked to him about it, then I talked to them about the company, then I talked about the personality of the manager and the company. The last thing they see is the description. Because obviously if a company's calling me, the description is not working for them. So it's probably conveying the wrong message. So when I go back to the company, I say, you're doing it in reverse, which puts your, it kind of ties your hands a little bit.

Steve Swan [00:21:25]:
You already have it out there. So they see the description and they see what company it is. So now they know the organization or they think they know the organization. They think they know the role because they see the description and they're going to Tell you what they think you want to hear based on what they see. So it's kind of like we get to qualify them first. We identify, qualify, and then make sure they're the right fit. These folks have already self identified and really have already self qualified. So it puts the HR person internally, I think, at a disadvantage for that reason.

Janelle Razzino [00:21:58]:
Correct.

Steve Swan [00:21:58]:
You know, and I think it's tough. It's tough.

Janelle Razzino [00:22:01]:
It is. There's nothing easy about hr, granted. There's nothing easy about that role. You know, when I work on HR positions, finding that right person is, it's crazy because you have so many different types of HR people, right. And their personalities and, you know, just like anything else. But HR seems to be even more difficult. Anyway, you, your question two or three years or four years ago, how did you know? Why are we seeing this big change? Why, you know, what's stopping? What have we seen? Well, in the last couple of years, you know, the big push has been on, you know, technology, AI, all kinds of, you know, ZipRecruiter has probably done more advertising in the last two years than I've heard about them from the beginning.

Steve Swan [00:22:57]:
Oh, really? Thank you.

Janelle Razzino [00:22:59]:
Oh, absolutely. They're, you know, they're pushing, you know, they're pushing their AI platform and you know, everything else companies are very focused on, you know, the Joneses, if they have it, I gotta have it.

Steve Swan [00:23:14]:
Correct.

Janelle Razzino [00:23:15]:
If they have it, I gotta have it. They're so laser focused, I'll use your word on AI in the last two years that, I mean, it's almost like they don't see anything else.

Steve Swan [00:23:27]:
They don't. And the blinders on, you know, and I think the fundamental use of AI is good. It's gonna make us all smarter, better, faster. But I do believe, I do believe that the foundation of the thought process behind using AI is flawed. And here's why I say that. Because I think over the years, right, and this has happened since I started in this business, companies have come to me and they've said, you find the purple squirrel. We don't know how you do it, but you find the purple squirrel. Okay, cool.

Steve Swan [00:23:59]:
I think that's a misconception. I don't believe that, that I find the purple squirrel. Here's why I say that. Because the, the underlying assumption is if I use AI, I can find the purple squirrel like swan finds a purple squirrel. And I would tell a company, I would, to their face, I would say we have access, the two of us, to the same 95% of people. Now do I have maybe 10 maybe, maybe 90%. Because my, my network's pretty big, so I know a lot of folks, right? So those folks, they might not have access to and they might not pick up the phone if those HR folks called. However.

Steve Swan [00:24:29]:
However, just having access and seeing that person doesn't mean you're going to qualify them. You're going to identify them. They're going to be the right fit. You might not land them. I mean, I have 100% acceptance rate for offers extended to accepted over the last three years. So you might not get all that because you just find them with AI. Finding them is finding them. That's it.

Steve Swan [00:24:51]:
They're in your database. But you need a. I call it the work in the middle. The work in the middle is missing, you know, because we identify. And then they're getting to the point where they're just dumping offers in people's laps. Right now the work in the middle is gone, and they're. I'm getting the call saying, steve, we've had this open for six months and we've had three or four turndowns. Well, why do you think you've had turndowns? We don't know.

Steve Swan [00:25:13]:
That means none of the work in the middle was done. We just saw it. By dumping an offer in their lap, it was going to solve all problems. But we didn't know if they liked our company, if they liked the culture, if they were excited about the role. What else they were interviewing for do they want? Hybrid. What dollar do they want? You know, it goes on and on and on.

Janelle Razzino [00:25:27]:
Right. They don't do the work.

Steve Swan [00:25:30]:
Yeah, it's not. And it's not because. Yeah, because it's a shortcut with using AI. And I understand what they're doing because they got a billion other things to do, but it's people. People hiring people is still a people business, not an AI business.

Janelle Razzino [00:25:43]:
Steve, you have a billion things to do. I have a billion things to do. HR has a billion things to do. Everybody is busy.

Steve Swan [00:25:50]:
Yes, right.

Janelle Razzino [00:25:51]:
We all can agree on that. But that work in the middle is the way the companies hire. I need the. What have you heard in the last, even two years? One year. Bring me a candidate who is alive.

Steve Swan [00:26:09]:
Right? Right.

Janelle Razzino [00:26:10]:
Bring me a candidate who wants to come to work.

Steve Swan [00:26:14]:
Right.

Janelle Razzino [00:26:15]:
Bring me a candidate who, who understands what I'm looking for.

Steve Swan [00:26:19]:
Right. Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:26:20]:
How many have we heard that just in the last year?

Steve Swan [00:26:24]:
Well, in the last year, I mean, I'd say within the last six months, the, the calls I'm getting from the managers are saying, you know, What? Forget my job description. Give me a good person that I want around that knows maybe two or three of these skills of the 12 I've listed. And like you said, alive, trustworthy, messes with the team. It's all about the soft stuff because they've been getting people that are getting through the process. The AI process. Yes. Skill set, probably, I'm guessing, and I don't know for certain, but getting through AI would put no certain words on their resume, you know, so.

Janelle Razzino [00:26:57]:
And how about the AI spits out everything anyway?

Steve Swan [00:27:00]:
Right, Right, right.

Janelle Razzino [00:27:01]:
You may as well just put your name on top of the job description.

Steve Swan [00:27:05]:
Right, right.

Janelle Razzino [00:27:06]:
That in.

Steve Swan [00:27:06]:
Yeah. So see if that comes back. Yeah, so that's what.

Janelle Razzino [00:27:11]:
Everything. It's. It's rejecting everything is what it's doing.

Steve Swan [00:27:15]:
Right?

Janelle Razzino [00:27:16]:
And if they don't have the right guardrails in place, if they don't have the right agents in place, if they don't have the right coding in place, that is never, ever going to work. You know, companies have been using all of these bots and all of this interviewing style for a long time, right? No camera, no person, just a bot at the other end of that interviewing screen. Answer four questions, answer five questions, thank you very much. You have a little time to think about it first, then you have to answer. You know, that process, that process does no one any good whatsoever. Look, if you want a robot, go. Fuck you. Go.

Janelle Razzino [00:27:59]:
Go on. Go to AI. You want a robot, go on in. If you want a person living, breathing, with a heartbeat, you know, let me know. You know, we've worked so hard all these years, you know, bringing wonderful people to these wonderful jobs, who, by the way, have never left. I'll bet you your track record is just as good as mine. People that we put in over the years have never left, never jumped ship, never this, never that, stayed steady. And now those people have kids.

Janelle Razzino [00:28:31]:
And all those kids came to us, right? Talk to Steve, talk to Janelle. They were able to. I mean, where do you ever see that happening elsewhere? You know, you have their kids and their neighbors and their friends. How many emails do you get a day and say, hey, Steve, I have this. I have a friend that I'd like you to speak with because they just lost their job. Are those referrals? Those people, Those backgrounds are pristine. They're pristine because those people were, you know, birds of a feather. You want to call it? That's fine.

Janelle Razzino [00:29:12]:
We have outstanding candidate bases. Outstanding.

Steve Swan [00:29:16]:
The only candidates I won't. Listen to me. Are my own kids.

Janelle Razzino [00:29:20]:
Right. Why would they. Well, we don't know anything. Yeah, we don't know. No, you know, some things you probably don't know. My husband has worked in hospitality all the time.

Steve Swan [00:29:33]:
Okay. Okay.

Janelle Razzino [00:29:33]:
And he has changed a couple of jobs and very quick story. So of course, you know, doing what I do. He was looking for a new job at the time, and I said, listen, I can help you, you know, prepare, you know, for whatever you need, you know, to go on these interviews.

Steve Swan [00:29:52]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:29:52]:
He said, first of all, you don't know anything about the hospitality business. Number two, here we go. You know, don't treat me like a candidate.

Steve Swan [00:30:02]:
Right.

Janelle Razzino [00:30:02]:
I said, honey, I'm not. I'm not. Just. So one day he said, you know, I got an interview. And at that time, uh, I don't. Are you familiar with Paramus?

Steve Swan [00:30:14]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:30:15]:
Well, the Capitol Grill opened, and Michael, the first employee to open up the Capitol Grill.

Steve Swan [00:30:21]:
Nice.

Janelle Razzino [00:30:22]:
Well, he comments. So he tells me, you know, he tells, oh, my God, I have the interview with Capitol Grill, blah, blah. And he comes home that night with the Post, reads the Post. He comes home, the Post, and on the back, the back page, tips for interviewing.

Steve Swan [00:30:38]:
Oh, that's so funny.

Janelle Razzino [00:30:39]:
And he goes, look at this. He goes, look, honey, they have great tips for hiking.

Steve Swan [00:30:45]:
Nothing you've ever said, right? Yeah, of course.

Janelle Razzino [00:30:47]:
Not me. Of course, the Post. Days later, he says to me, look it, I want this job at the Capital Grill. How do I get it? Oh, I said, you want to know how to get that job?

Steve Swan [00:31:00]:
Coming to mama, right? Exactly.

Janelle Razzino [00:31:01]:
I said, it's going to cost you.

Steve Swan [00:31:05]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:31:07]:
I said, but okay. And I told him how to get that job. And he did.

Steve Swan [00:31:10]:
Yeah, good. That's awesome, right?

Janelle Razzino [00:31:13]:
First employee ever hired at the Capital Grill in Paramus when they opened the doors.

Steve Swan [00:31:17]:
Very cool. Very cool. Similar story, my daughter, when she. Well, she just graduated from college and won't listen to me, you know, and she's out there interviewing for Data science roles, which I filled a bunch of. And we're telling her, you got to do this, you know, network, whatever, a whole bunch of things. So she has a conversation within. She finally connects up with somebody from her school that's now running all of Data Science for a whole bunch of the. Those dating apps, right? He runs Data Science for Match and all those.

Steve Swan [00:31:48]:
They're all owned by the same company. Anyway, so he tells her a whole bunch. He doesn't have a role for it, but he tells her a whole bunch of tips and things. She comes down after talking to him to dinner. We're having dinner. One night and she's Chatty Cathy just going, and she's saying all this stuff that he told her and this. I'm supposed to be doing this, I got to do this, I'm gonna do that. I'm like, sounds familiar.

Steve Swan [00:32:10]:
I didn't say that. I just sat there because listen. She's listening to somebody. That's cool. It works, you know, of course. What are you gonna do?

Janelle Razzino [00:32:17]:
It's amazing. Family doesn't listen to family. That's a given.

Steve Swan [00:32:21]:
No, no, no, no, no, no.

Janelle Razzino [00:32:23]:
So I want to tell you this. I do see the market turning.

Steve Swan [00:32:27]:
I do too.

Janelle Razzino [00:32:27]:
I do. I see it turning. And I've been guiding candidates. You know how to get prepared for that. Because, Steve, nothing ever stays down.

Steve Swan [00:32:35]:
No, right.

Janelle Razzino [00:32:37]:
It never. It's going to come back. You know, everything comes back up. And I need people to understand that this is a market that's turning. Look, there's always a lag time, you know, from what we see versus what really is going on out there. And I have been guiding candidates to really think about what they need to do today, right now to be prepared for that climb. I do. And I think they, you know, the more we talk about it, the more that market starts to lift, which will most likely come at the end of August.

Janelle Razzino [00:33:18]:
You know, I've never believed that summer is a time you should sit back anyway.

Steve Swan [00:33:23]:
Correct. You and I have had that conversation too.

Janelle Razzino [00:33:25]:
Yeah, absolutely. The more you push during these summer months, the better position you're going to be in come September, October, you know, when companies open up the coffers and say, okay, we need to have people. And I know that companies are suffering for people. I know it.

Steve Swan [00:33:40]:
They are, they are. And all. Everything we see now though, tends to be net new roles, right, That a lot of people are staying put. But, but everything you read is, is, is, is job satisfaction, career satisfaction is at an all time low. Right? It's 60 something percent. I did an interview yesterday with Biospace magazine. My, my space is biotech. And they asked me, you know, they said that they did an informal poll and they came to the conclusion that in the biotech industry in the next year, 83, 83% of respondents said that we plan on looking for a new role within the next year.

Steve Swan [00:34:18]:
That's a big number, man. Huge, huge. And so I said, well, we got the macro, you know, global macro, US sort of picture of 60 plus percent. But add on top of that, what's going on with the biotech space, you know, the funding that's gotten crushed and you know, we don't know what the regulatory environment's going to look like. All sorts of things and you know, all that on top of each other, you know, 80 something percent. So once things start moving and once people start moving, it's just going to, it's going to explode. It's going to be crazy.

Janelle Razzino [00:34:49]:
You know, you mentioned there, look, there are other obvious reasons why, you know, we've had a major, this is like a slow up and it's not. Again, it's not just hr, it's the political climate. It's, you know, the terror. You know, everybody has a reason. The tariffs, the political climate, it's hr, it's, you know, there's a lot of reasons why. But, but don't let it stop you. You know, we can always, we can always move forward. We can always build on the network.

Janelle Razzino [00:35:21]:
We can always write the note, make a call, have coffee with someone that doesn't stop. And I guide candidates to continue to do that as robustly as they can, especially now. And I know people go on vacations. You know, I think there's a couple of my clients that have closed for two weeks.

Steve Swan [00:35:41]:
Oh, really? Okay.

Janelle Razzino [00:35:42]:
Oh yeah. I mean, and that's, I mean that's normal. One, they, they headquarters, they have a plant here, there and everywhere and they shut down sometimes during the summer just to re, I guess.

Steve Swan [00:35:58]:
Retool manufacturing.

Janelle Razzino [00:35:59]:
Retool manufacturing or change. Check their, you know. Check what? Like there's a plant in Lynn, Linden, New Jersey. Total Energies is the fourth largest oil company in the world here. Yeah. They have a plant here in Linden and I work with them and I believe they close. Not close close, but close for vacation.

Steve Swan [00:36:25]:
Really? That's cool. The refinery, that's nice. That's good for them.

Janelle Razzino [00:36:29]:
Yeah. All the lubricants that go into everything else with probably everything.

Steve Swan [00:36:33]:
Yeah. There's so many companies that do.

Janelle Razzino [00:36:36]:
Yeah.

Steve Swan [00:36:36]:
All this stuff that you just never heard of.

Janelle Razzino [00:36:38]:
Right. So it's a lot of different things. But candidates can't stop, you know, our candidates can't stop looking. They can't.

Steve Swan [00:36:45]:
Well, it's. So another thing that this gentleman said to my daughter was like you just said, keep talking to people, but talk to them mostly or not mostly, but still reach out to them. Even if there's nothing you want from them, even if there's nothing you need, keep touching base because they're going to run into somebody at dinner, at a cocktail party or at a baseball game or whatever that says, hey, you know, I'm looking for that person or, you know, anybody like this. Yeah, you know, I've been chatting with this girl or this guy that does that. Let me, let me reach out to them and see what they, what their thoughts are, you know, that kind of stuff. So if you just keep doing that, because again, these roles that they, that they post on the Internet, you know, they're getting 14,000 applicants and are they real? And all this other stuff, you know.

Janelle Razzino [00:37:26]:
99% of those candidates do not do the job.

Steve Swan [00:37:29]:
Right, right.

Janelle Razzino [00:37:30]:
You do not do the job. People will post on anything. Well, you know, let me just send it, because you never know. I got a, I got a call early this morning, a longtime candidate, a friend who was in, I guess, one of the staples doing some printing thing and got into a conversation and this gal said, I'm a project manager by trade. She said, I just took this job because I needed to get back to work. So she's in the printing side of Staples. So this gal says to her, oh, my God, you need to call Janelle Rossino, project management. I know the person for you to call, but because they've taken other jobs or needed to get cash flow into the house and they're out of work and they're not prepared.

Janelle Razzino [00:38:20]:
And I know people that were not prepared. You know, they're. They need help, they need guidance.

Steve Swan [00:38:25]:
They do, they do.

Janelle Razzino [00:38:27]:
Right? And the market right now is the time to do it.

Steve Swan [00:38:30]:
It's a really push, Just dig, dig in and, and keep pushing and networking. My niece, my. My brother's daughter who's two years out of school now, she was in a, in a role again. Kind of just took a role. Right. She was getting her nails done or something at a salon. And she's not quiet. She's sitting there chitchatting and three chairs over, this lady leans over and said, what kind of role you're looking for? She hired her.

Steve Swan [00:38:55]:
She ended up hiring her. She stole her from her other company. She's like, you're exactly what we're looking for. And.

Janelle Razzino [00:39:01]:
Right.

Steve Swan [00:39:02]:
Who knew?

Janelle Razzino [00:39:03]:
Right? You know, you know, this. In August, you know, I put on this C level executive panel and, and I invite my C level clients to come in all different disciplines and listen to and answer questions that we have prepared. You know, we prepare ahead of time, we solicit from the audience, we get the questions, we put them all in the right topic areas and we send them off to the executives. They come in August and they listen. You know, we have a moderator. And it is amazing how typically three to four people get hired that night.

Steve Swan [00:39:46]:
Right. Amazing. Right?

Janelle Razzino [00:39:48]:
It is amazing, because what are they looking for? You have a room, 160, 200 people right in front of you that are all professionals asking all the right questions, asking all the right particulars of a company. And these people are getting right in front of the decision maker. Nothing. Nobody in between.

Steve Swan [00:40:14]:
Yeah. Nothing speaks louder than that.

Janelle Razzino [00:40:16]:
Right. And that monthly meeting, believe me, Steve, is amazing because the types of people that come, types of people that you can help, and more importantly, they're talking to one another.

Steve Swan [00:40:29]:
Right.

Janelle Razzino [00:40:31]:
That. That networking that we all talk about every day.

Steve Swan [00:40:36]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:40:37]:
Network meetings. What. Whatever. Meetings of Fang. This one. That one. Dale's group, John's group, whatever.

Steve Swan [00:40:44]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:40:46]:
That networking is becoming increasingly important.

Steve Swan [00:40:50]:
It is. It is more and more. And people. They started forgetting it. The more electronic we got. Right. You know, this is fine.

Janelle Razzino [00:41:01]:
It's good for some stuff. And, you know, I still hand write those notes.

Steve Swan [00:41:05]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:41:08]:
Because that's Right. That. But that's important.

Steve Swan [00:41:12]:
It is.

Janelle Razzino [00:41:13]:
Right. Because you're not just. It's not just a person. It is a. It's a living, breathing relationship.

Steve Swan [00:41:21]:
It is.

Janelle Razzino [00:41:22]:
That's what it is. It's not just a person.

Steve Swan [00:41:25]:
And that's. That's. That's. That's gone. You know, and when. When I hear from folks that call us and they say, wow, you answer the phone. Wow. You call us back.

Steve Swan [00:41:37]:
Wow. You actually will call me and give me an update. Sometimes I'll call them and I'll say, hey, listen, I know it's Wednesday. I told you, I call you Friday. I still haven't heard anything. Just want to let you know that they're like, what? I'm like, Right. Because, you know, you're.

Janelle Razzino [00:41:49]:
Nobody does that.

Steve Swan [00:41:50]:
You're stuck in a closet, and you don't know what they're thinking about you and where the process is. Your brain goes wild. I mean, it's just human nature. Right?

Janelle Razzino [00:41:57]:
And that's human nature. And don't ever stop. I do the same thing here. Just pick up the phone. Listen, I know you're not getting. I know we're not getting any answers, but stay tuned, because we will. And then, of course, you know, you're sitting here, you grit your teeth, you're dialing the. Okay, so what are we doing? Yeah, it happened this morning.

Steve Swan [00:42:16]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:42:17]:
Happened this morning. I reached out, I said, okay, so what are we doing? I put one company. So what is this? Foreplay?

Steve Swan [00:42:26]:
Right, Right.

Janelle Razzino [00:42:27]:
You know, anything to get them to react.

Steve Swan [00:42:31]:
Yeah, right.

Janelle Razzino [00:42:32]:
And they react. Oh, Janelle. Oh, my God. You know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It happened this morning.

Steve Swan [00:42:40]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:42:40]:
And now the guy is set up to go in tomorrow.

Steve Swan [00:42:42]:
They just don't. You know what? In their defense, they just might forget. Might again. Doing a billion things forget. Lost in the shuffle. If it's a priority. If it's a priority, you're gonna remember it. But if it's not a priority, you know, then it's.

Janelle Razzino [00:42:57]:
No. Sometimes they. It falls down the list. I get that, too. I get that, too. But. So Human resources says, how many people have you represented? Janelle? And I tell her, and she says, I don't know what the problem is here. Let me see if I can jingle.

Janelle Razzino [00:43:11]:
The hiring manager.

Steve Swan [00:43:12]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:43:13]:
And so the hiring manager pops up. Well, I'm not sure, because I think he's a little bit too far away. He's 18 miles away. Big deal.

Steve Swan [00:43:19]:
Yeah. Right. So there's something else going on then.

Janelle Razzino [00:43:22]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. I do know. But meanwhile, he's going.

Steve Swan [00:43:26]:
But again, that's what we do. We. We drill down on that stuff. HRs, you know, freaking out because, like, we just got to get this off our to do list. This. That. Well, you know, let's talk to the hiring manager. Let's figure out what it is.

Steve Swan [00:43:36]:
If he. If he or she says 18 miles too far. Okay, what else is it? You know, what else could we be thinking about here? You know, he or she has X, Y, and z. You know, 18 isn't that far. You know, I guess the person's telling you they live eight miles away, right. Or something. So who knows?

Janelle Razzino [00:43:51]:
I mean, come on. Wait, Isn't that that purple squirrel you found?

Steve Swan [00:43:54]:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, come on.

Janelle Razzino [00:43:58]:
You know, we gotta love it. There's.

Steve Swan [00:44:00]:
We.

Janelle Razzino [00:44:01]:
And you and I are laughing. I mean, think about that. We're laughing about the job that we do that keeps us alive, takes care of our families.

Steve Swan [00:44:11]:
Y.

Janelle Razzino [00:44:11]:
We get to do, you know, fun things during the year.

Steve Swan [00:44:15]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:44:16]:
And we're. You and I are laughing.

Steve Swan [00:44:19]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:44:19]:
Now, I don't know what job you get. I don't know what other jobs you get that in.

Steve Swan [00:44:23]:
You have to. You know, you have to.

Janelle Razzino [00:44:24]:
You gotta laugh. No, you have to.

Steve Swan [00:44:26]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:44:27]:
I am very, very excited about the turnaround in the market. I am very excited about working towards a more robust September.

Steve Swan [00:44:40]:
Yeah. I wasn't ready for. So, like I said, I'm working on this CIO minus one. I wasn't ready for the same sort of save situations that I needed to do.

Janelle Razzino [00:44:52]:
Right.

Steve Swan [00:44:52]:
After Covid, which it feels like I'm going to have to do with some of these candidates because they're all of a sudden this week and last week, getting a ton of calls, and I'm like, whoa, I thought it was going to be more. Let's take our time. Let's do the time.

Janelle Razzino [00:45:04]:
But no. Right.

Steve Swan [00:45:05]:
It's not, man.

Janelle Razzino [00:45:06]:
No, because they're ready and they're getting. And by the way, how many people are getting multiple offers?

Steve Swan [00:45:11]:
They are. They are.

Janelle Razzino [00:45:13]:
Right. So if we've got. On one hand, we've got people getting multiple offers. On another hand, we have companies that are kind of still, you know, churning, churning, churning, waiting. There's. They've got to. This has got to happen. And it will.

Steve Swan [00:45:27]:
It will, it will.

Janelle Razzino [00:45:28]:
You know, let's start. Let's do it. Let's get it done.

Steve Swan [00:45:31]:
Right.

Janelle Razzino [00:45:32]:
I'm ready. Let's go. Instead of waiting, waiting, waiting. So companies are starting to come around and candidates are getting multiple offers. Yeah, that's because it's the good talent, Steve.

Steve Swan [00:45:44]:
It always rises to the top.

Janelle Razzino [00:45:46]:
Yeah. Three goes. That's it. Hire them.

Steve Swan [00:45:49]:
Yep.

Janelle Razzino [00:45:49]:
He's got the right personality. They have the right everything.

Steve Swan [00:45:52]:
And.

Janelle Razzino [00:45:52]:
And the soft skills are going to win out every time.

Steve Swan [00:45:56]:
Always, always, Always.

Janelle Razzino [00:45:57]:
Every time. Every time.

Steve Swan [00:45:59]:
Agreed. Well, so I always ask one last question before. Unless you have something else you want to add. I have one last question I ask of all my guests, and it's the same question. Okay. Any. Anything else you want to add before I get to that? No, no, you're good. Okay.

Steve Swan [00:46:17]:
Now, I like live music, and I go and see a lot of concerts and I see bands and things like that. So what I like asking folks is there if they've. If they've seen live music and if they go to live music, what's the favorite band that they've ever seen or favorite live concert or favorite live show that they've ever seen in their entire life?

Janelle Razzino [00:46:36]:
Diana Ross.

Steve Swan [00:46:38]:
Really? That's a first for me. I've asked, obviously. I've been doing this for two years, Right. So I've asked that. Really? Diana Ross.

Janelle Razzino [00:46:44]:
Diana Ross. Fourth row. Oh, my God.

Steve Swan [00:46:48]:
Really? Now, where was that? Where was that?

Janelle Razzino [00:46:50]:
Madison Square Garden. Cool.

Steve Swan [00:46:52]:
Very cool.

Janelle Razzino [00:46:53]:
Unbelievable.

Steve Swan [00:46:55]:
She. She.

Janelle Razzino [00:46:56]:
To me, that is a complete icon. I don't care how old she gets. I don't care what it is. But that night. Oh, my God. And I went for. I went with a friend.

Steve Swan [00:47:08]:
Yeah.

Janelle Razzino [00:47:08]:
And she brought her roses.

Steve Swan [00:47:10]:
Really?

Janelle Razzino [00:47:11]:
She took them right off the. You know, she took them right from her oh, my.

Steve Swan [00:47:15]:
Very cool. Very.

Janelle Razzino [00:47:16]:
Music is just wonderful.

Steve Swan [00:47:19]:
That gets you going. Now, now, how long ago was that? Oh, long time ago. Okay, I won't ask. Don't give me a year. It was a while ago. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool.

Janelle Razzino [00:47:28]:
But just fabulous.

Steve Swan [00:47:29]:
Yeah. I get a lot of different, you know.

Janelle Razzino [00:47:32]:
Oh, God.

Steve Swan [00:47:33]:
I've gotten a few Bruce Springsteens. I've gotten, you know, a whole bunch of different things, but Diana Ross. Good.

Janelle Razzino [00:47:40]:
I get chill. I get. I get chills.

Steve Swan [00:47:41]:
Chills just thinking about it. That's cool. That's good. She. Did she ever do, like, a Vegas residency or something? Why do I feel like no, she never did.

Janelle Razzino [00:47:50]:
No. No. Because, well, you know, again, time takes a toll.

Steve Swan [00:47:54]:
It does.

Janelle Razzino [00:47:55]:
However, I did hear recently that she was coming out with some new music.

Steve Swan [00:48:03]:
Oh, cool. Okay. I think LA Vegas residencies to take a toll because if you're doing that, whatever, five nights a week, that's gotta hurt, you know? You know, they do pay a lot, but if you can't five nights a week, long time, you know, that's a long run. You know, if you're doing that for months on end, forget about it, you know? So, anyway. All right, well, listen, great chatting with you. Thank you very much.

Janelle Razzino [00:48:28]:
Chat with you. I had a good time. Really.

Steve Swan [00:48:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. No, that was good. That was really good. And I. I appreciate your time. Okay.

Janelle Razzino [00:48:36]:
We appreciate yours. And thanks for having me.