Is AI Making Us Dumber?

What happens to our minds when AI does the reading, thinking, and planning for us? We open with a bold claim: just as mechanization made gyms necessary for our bodies, ubiquitous AI will force us to create “brain gyms” to protect attention, reasoning, and judgment. From The Blind Watchmaker to Bezos vs invention, we explore why execution at scale can outpace invention and why, in an age of infinite summaries, long-form reading might be the ultimate cognitive training.

Then we shift gears into a practical masterclass on business partnerships. We unpack 50-50 vs 51-49 ownership, how to avoid deadlocks with a standing tie-breaker, and why separating pay from profit prevents slow-burn resentment. You’ll get a clear blueprint for pairing complementary strengths—visionary and integrator, sales and ops, rainmaker and operator—so direction and delivery actually meet. We go deep on agreements with a “prenup mindset”: roles, decision thresholds, bad-leaver clauses, spending rules, buy-sell mechanics, non-competes, IP, and dispute resolution. The goal isn’t paranoia; it’s protection for both parties while you still like each other.

Control systems matter as much as chemistry. We outline spend approvals with hard thresholds, dual authorization for large payments, and a monthly numbers cadence to keep everyone honest. We also share field-tested communication habits—repeat-backs, clear handoffs, and stakeholder maps—so intent matches impact and no one gets triangulated. Real stories of amicable splits show how fair valuations and ongoing referral agreements can preserve friendship and future deal flow.

Across it all, one theme holds: in a world where AI accelerates everything, your edge is deliberate human discipline. Train your mind on purpose. Write the rules before you need them. Define roles, measure the right numbers, and over-communicate until alignment becomes a habit. If this conversation sparked ideas for your own partnership or team, hit follow, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.

Transcript

Books, Bezos, And Big Ideas

Robby 0:00

So George, I've really changed my mind about the whole reading thing. You gonna read again? You're on the book of the bandwagon? I haven't stopped. Um I've been reading currently reading a book called The Blind Watchmaker. Have you ever heard of it? No. I re I'm on reading it because I heard someone quoted Jeff Bezos thing. Do you like Jeff Bezos?

George 0:25

I mean I don't dislike him. Yeah. I like him, yes. I I admire what he's done. I I don't see much of him or anything like that.

Robby 0:33

Don't follow but he's different. Different to everyone else. Like he's different. How so? He didn't do he didn't create anything.

George 0:43

What do you mean he didn't create anything?

Robby 0:45

He didn't create retail. Retail was already a thing. He just built a business in the thing that already existed. Yeah. Early on. He didn't create the internet. Yeah. He didn't create e-commerce. That was a thing already. He just got in early and just built a business so big that he trumped everyone else. That's it. That's all he did. Simple. But simple, yes. Made it sound like it was nothing. But like, so you look at Steve Jobs, invented a product. Yeah. Elon Musk invented a product. You know, like we're talking about the Titans. Mark Zuckerberg invented a product. Sam Altman invented a product. Yeah. Right? He didn't invent a product. He just said, I'm gonna sell books online. And everyone thought it was nuts. Um but yeah, I've been reading the book called The Blind Watchmaker. I'd recommend it.

George 1:33

Is it about exactly what the title suggests? It's about because I don't know if I'd buy one of those watches in all honesty.

Robby 1:42

It's about humanity.

George 1:43

Okay, cool. You're trying not to give anything away?

Robby 1:46

No, it's it's just about do you know what Darwinism is?

George 1:49

No. Oh, hang on. I have heard of this.

The Blind Watchmaker And Darwinism

Robby 1:52

Yeah. It's like human history and how we formed it's interesting. Different. Oh, it's fucking like it's uh yeah, not nothing to not a business book at all. Um but just super interesting about humanity and the way we've become how we've become and uh the the author's quite famous as well, Richard Dawkins. He's got a very he's a very big author, scientific author, he's got a lot of books in in around humanity and consciousness and so forth.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Yeah.

Can AI Replace Reading?

Robby 2:20

Um but yeah, I've been reading that book now, and the reason why I changed my mind around reading. So the other day we had that conversation, right? And I'll I'll mention it for everyone listening, and I came to you and I was like, hey man, I don't even know if reading is worth reading anymore. We read to gain intelligence, and now with AI, your intelligence is kind of outsourced in a lot of ways, right? And it's like you can go to AI and say, Hey, you know, you know everything about my business. Uh tell me the seven things I need to do from this book, or tell me all the things I need to implement into my company from this book and put it together in an action step plan. And it'll do it for you. And then tell me what I need to know that I don't already know to make sure I can do this effectively, and it'll do it for you. And then I thought 30 seconds. Yeah, and then I thought, okay. When the Industrial Revolution happened, right? So I I was having a conversation with someone and they go to me, you you're they complimented my thinking process. Yeah, they're like the way you process your thoughts and you can explain something is is quite good. And I said, Thanks. And then I thought, why? Why can I do that? And I thought, it's probably because all of the the reading and the consumption of knowledge and conversations and everything that we have. And then I thought if we stopped doing that, right? This is what I think is gonna happen. I think people are going to stop training intelligently. I think we're gonna experience what happened we experienced physics physically. So people used to be fit physics, yeah. That's right. Yeah. Oh wow, fuck, what a theory. Yes, this is what I think is gonna happen. So I think we're gonna experience what we experienced physically. So I think people used to be fit and strong. Industrial revolution happened, everyone got fat. Fuck.

George 4:08

You look at yes, you're looking like in the 50s, 60s, 70s, you go to the beach. There's like photos. Like, you could go to the beach. Yeah, and everyone was fit. Everyone had a six-pack, everyone had a good body, like they were eating good food. No one was unfit. Now you go to the beach and there's fucking elephants everywhere.

Robby 4:25

Yeah, and it's like there's there's lots of reasons. One, you know, obviously the the food, uh, the eating food, the like the comfort factor.

George 4:32

Yeah, there's so many reasons. Yeah, but the fact that we don't have to move as much in the world. Yes, you don't. It's a it's an effort. Like we were just talking about it before this episode. Uh uh I'm trying to walk 10 uh 12,000 steps a day, it's an effort for me to do that because but you're making that effort. I am, I am conscious because I'm trying to achieve a goal, like I'm trying to be fit, I'm trying to be better, I'm stronger.

Robby 4:52

Yeah, whereas previously you didn't have to. Yeah. Now and then we went through that phase where people and I would say people are more health conscious now than ever.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Yeah.

Robby 5:02

And um information out about it. Yeah, and then there was that period though, between when we felt forced to do it, like that we I wouldn't say forced, but we had an external thing. Oh, we had to. Yeah, you had to walk to work. Yeah, you had to walk to work, or you gotta ride the horse, like you know, you're not driving. Or you were like working physically. Yes, you know what I mean. Like you were working on the city.

George 5:22

You're probably doing 20,000 steps, you know, every day.

Robby 5:25

So you were kept fit by that. We stopped it for a long time. Farmer's strength. Humans got really sick. Is that what they call it? Farmer's strength. Yeah, humans got really sick, and then we purposefully now. It's like, think about this. Like, uh, how long have gyms been around? Were gym were gyms a thing 200 years ago?

George 5:40

Oh, maybe not. I don't know, too. Oh, probably. No, there was probably an element of it. A gym. I I wouldn't know if it's an actual gym, but I think strength training may have would have been around.

Robby 5:49

Yeah, but then okay, then the other element is like, how popular were they?

George 5:52

Yeah.

Industrial Revolution Of The Mind

Robby 5:53

Most people probably are like, well, I don't need it. I don't want to. Yeah. Whereas now it's kind of like, hey, you should train. Yeah. And you've kind and we've brought it back into our lives. So we've brought back the physical movement that was original part of the way we used to operate, and then we stopped doing it, and now we've brought it back into our lives to say that this is important for us, for our bodies, for our physicality, for our health. And I think the same thing's gonna happen with with intelligence. So I think our cognitive ability is gonna fade. Okay, and we're starting to see it already. Hey, you're blown away, huh? I'm fucking, I reckon this is one of the best things you've ever said on the podcast. Dude, I was fucking when I realized it, I freaked. I'm freaking now. Yeah, I might throw up because I thought this is the we're gonna lose cognitive ability. We're seeing it already, dude. You know, we all know someone who can't fucking do something basic without searching it. Jesus. We already know that. Like right now, that's happened already. So we're gonna go from people we're driven by external factors. People read for one of two reasons. You either like reading or you like knowing stuff you don't know. Yeah, that's it. You're either trying to gain information, so either way, you've got an external thing. You're like, yes, this gives me pleasure, I enjoy it, it's escapism, or I'm trying to get this fucking thing, and I'm so driven to get that thing that I'll consume anything I need, right? So we were driven by that, and now as that fades, because you don't need your intelligence anymore, our cognitive ability is gonna fade, and then it's gonna become a thing of hey, you need to exercise your brain.

George 7:25

Yes.

Robby 7:26

Wow, yeah, and it's gonna become a thing, and then they're gonna be like, it's it's very good to read 10 pages a day, even though you don't need to read anymore, it's gonna be a thing to bring it back into your life, it's a mental exercise.

George 7:37

Yeah, how fucking sick. That is amazing. Honestly, I that's some of the best five minutes we've ever had on this podcast. Sorry to all the previous guests.

Robby 7:47

It was um, yeah, it was it was dude. I was like, I was blown away when I That's excellent. Just a thought profile. I was gonna go read a book after this podcast, right? Yeah, it's like it's like why wait that was my prediction of future, you know.

George 8:01

The interesting part about that as well is gonna be to see the dumbness. It's gonna happen, dude. You know?

Robby 8:08

Oh, dude, it's and we're gonna be those old souls, aren't we?

George 8:12

Yeah, like it's gonna, we're gonna become old, right? And then we're gonna die out, and then it's gonna be left all the fucking retards that are left in the world, and then it's gonna be like, okay, is there gonna be a group that goes, hey, we've become dumb, let's get smart again, and then it comes full circle.

Robby 8:29

Yeah, and and then like so what will become bigger that like will if you opened the gym, like if you got into gym early, like in the 60s or 70s, when it really started to become a thing, well, I don't I don't even I'm guessing here. Okay, gyms could have been a thing for like 400 years, I have no idea. But if you got in before, like I would say gyms are most popular. Look at um like an F-45, right? There no those types of trainings tend to be quite popular. People love going there, blah blah blah. It's like quick session in and out. Yeah, it's like quick session, in and out, group training, uh focused by one person leading the group. Um if you did that like 30 years ago, you probably would have been at the front of that pack now. You know what I mean? I think F-45 doesn't do anything significantly different. I think they were just early. And they were so early that when we talk about those types of training, most people say, Oh, like F-40. There's a there's lots of them.

George 9:28

There's like BFT and all these other brands. Like I haven't even seen an F-45 anymore because I don't even know if they're around still.

Robby 9:35

Are they yeah, maybe they're not? I don't know.

George 9:36

But I know they went, they grew hugely massive, yeah. They weren't public, and then I heard and then I saw they had a massive crash as well. So we'll have companies that go public, yeah, and then I haven't seen anything since.

Brain Gyms And Cognitive Training

Robby 9:48

And but but if I say to you like the F-45 crown training, you relate, you know, you get what I'm saying. Yeah, just because they were early, and it's like, okay, well, what's the business opportunity now with the intellectual training? Not in the sense of I'm not talking about uh selling a fucking online program, because that's not necessarily intellectual training. I'm talking about think about the physical versus intellectual. This is physical stimulation. When you go to the gym, you're doing some type of physical stimulation, strength training, cardiovascular training, uh high intensity training. What are the forms of intellectual training that you could do that would you know, get the brain training? Yeah, and then that could be a big thing in the future. Very cool. You're gonna read after this, huh?

George 10:46

I'm done. Yeah, I did. I just thought Yeah, it was interesting. Well, I I on Thursday I met a solicitor and he had a decent sized firm. It was his he was business, it's his own business. And I think he employed you know, 30, 40 people, whatever it might be. And we're talking about this from a perspective of, you know, how do you reckon AI is gonna affect your business? And he goes, look, he goes, there's a there's gonna be an issue in our industry. He goes, because at the moment we're not employing junior kids anymore. He goes, we're just not employing people out of high out of university. He goes, because I can get one person utilize um AI, like a chat GPT or something like that, and that can do the work of 10 juniors now. And whilst that suits the business now, it's great, our overheads are less because I don't need to employ as many people, and we're utilizing that skill set because the problem's gonna be in in 10 to 15 years' time, where all these juniors that we're not training, that we're not growing, that we're not employing, are not gonna be around to be a senior solicitor, and then we're not gonna have the people that can go to court and do all these sorts of things. So that in itself is the dumbing of the industry in that particular sector as well. So it's a similar type thing. Yeah, but is that gonna matter? I don't know. Is the AI gonna be the one that stands up in court and argues for you? Do you know what I mean? Like at what point the judge will be our exactly right. There's that movie. Have you seen with of course you've seen it, um, Chris Pratt, where the judge is now an AI thing, and it puts you as the person in front of the judge, and you have to prove to the AI that you're not guilty through all the means necessary. It's it was an interesting concept, but that's very much what it could be.

Robby 12:27

Yeah, and then I think like you'll both put your pitch forward and then it'll ask for context, and you both will put it forward, and yeah, I don't know.

George 12:39

It'll be interesting. But that's just one that's just one industry. Lawyer is not gonna be a thing. Accountants are not gonna be a thing. I know that's another one that's in a lot of trouble.

Robby 12:45

Yeah, bookkeepers, man. I've been saying this for a while now. Bookkeepers. I I I think your your time is probably so limited you could count it on one hand. Wow, that's it. There's gonna be plenty of those things. Platforms now have already got auto-reconciling and auto, you know what I mean? And it's like, okay, if the platforms built it into their own thing now, like I don't need you to come in and do the same way you don't need a fucking flight agent. I was talking to someone yesterday and they're booking the whole Europe trip by themselves, whole Europe trip by themselves.

AI, Jobs, And Junior Talent Gaps

George 13:15

Man, the other day, yesterday, fucking yesterday, literally, I went on to chat and I was like, because I'm going to Adelaide next month for work and I'm gonna um meet a few people there. And I was like, I've I don't know where to stay in Adelaide. I'm like, hey, where's a nice hotel CBD that I can stay? And I just put it in and goes, these, this, this, this. I'm like, okay, what about this one? Whereabouts is it located? It's like, yeah, really good spot. The uh it's close to shops, close to food, close to blah, blah, blah. Very central, bang. And then I went online, booked it, done. And I like normally you'd have to call up flight center and say, hey, where do I stay? Where do I go? What do I do? Or you put it into Google, right? But at least I got that personalized service through that.

Robby 13:51

So let me ask you a question. What's gonna happen when you don't ask for information, you ask for action, and you say, Hey, book me. Yeah, book me a thing. You know, you know everything about me. You know me more than I know me. Like, and it says, Hey George, I booked it here because I know you like to eat at this restaurant, and I've also booked your dinner there. Yeah, and I booked this, and I told them to make sure that the air comes at this temperature and don't leave chocolates in the room, so you're not tempted. That's right.

George 14:20

I'd find my PA. Do you know what I mean? Like, sorry, yeah, sorry, not sorry. Um, but yeah, uh wild times. I love it, wild times, wild times. Well, this that went a little bit sideways, but that's all good. I did have a topic I wanted to speak to you about today, and that was business partners. So, how you work and how you select and how you operate with another person in your business. That was the topic I did want to speak to you about today. Because I think a business partner can be a really, really powerful tool and asset in a company. Now, whether that's a 50-50 split or not, but also I think it can be absolutely detrimental. Yes. Absolutely detrimental.

Robby 15:05

Define so um what's your definition of a business partner? Like someone who owns a lot of people.

George 15:09

I would say, I would say having an ownership. You have to have ownership, yeah. So we're and I think in an ideal world, say it's a 50-50 split. Yeah, let's go let's base this conversation off of a 50-50 split. Because I think if it's not 50-50, then it's really one person has more vested interest than the other.

Robby 15:27

Yeah.

George 15:28

Do you know what I mean? Like if it's a 30-70 split, they have ownership, but is the full responsibility with them? No. So I think that's um that's important to differentiate. So let's just space it off a 50-50 split. Now, in saying that, I also think in a partnership like that, it sometimes can be beneficial to have a 51-49 split. Reason I say is if there is ever a decision that has to be made and you're both at a head at a roadblock and you can't go forward, that's really detrimental too. I think you've always got to have an avenue where you can move forward, whether it's a third-party independent person that you can go. So say it's 50-50, you go, cool, we can't make a decision right here. We need to go to a third party to make the decision for us. We'll give them the information, the resources. They'll they might see our blind spot and then go, right, George, Robbie, you're going in that direction. What sort of third party? Now you can, I don't know, an independent advisor. Yeah, an advisor could be a business advisor, a mentor, it could be an expert in that field. So say it's an accounting issue, we'll go see the accountant, you need to make a decision because I think we've got to spend this, he thinks we've got to spend that. What do we do? And then you can get your uh the professional advice and make a decision from there. So if you don't have the 5149, which is is totally fine. I think having an agreement in place to go this. I think that's important.

Action Over Information With AI

Robby 16:53

Yeah, so ultimately if there is a disagreement that one person has say over the other.

George 17:00

Yeah, but even then that can at times build resentment as well. So maybe it's even better to have an external party.

Robby 17:08

Yeah, I also think though it's important that um I think it's important that one person drives. Yes.

George 17:14

I I think so too.

Robby 17:15

We were speaking about a business before where there are multiple business partners and you don't know who is in charge. Yeah. Like when I say you don't know who's in charge, like you genuinely do not know who's in charge. We've both worked with them and I can email one and get a reply from the other. Yeah, that's fine. And then I'll reply to that person and then the other one replies. It's like, who am I talking to here? Who who makes this decision? Do you know what I mean? Because right now I got no idea. It's like, have you ever tried to drive, had three people drive a car?

SPEAKER_02 17:47

It's fucking hard. You do the gears, I'll do the clutch, and you steer. Hey, have you ever done that?

George 17:52

Oh, I've I've driven and a person changed gears for me. Yeah. Yeah, I remember for those that don't understand, there's a manual transmission in a vehicle.

Robby 18:01

I remember this is a funny story.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

So eating my eating Macfiz in one hand, driving. Okay, he changed the gear for me, I put the clutch in.

Pivot To Business Partnerships

Robby 18:09

I uh we used to have one of my friends used to have a Ute. It was a like a three-seater. Yeah. Oh yeah. The only way you could sit comfortably in the middle was if you had your right leg. Yeah, either side of the gear stick. Yeah, yeah. So you got either side of the gear stick. So then what we used to do, and it was never a smooth ride when we did this, but we used to be like, let me be your clutch. And it's like the clutch. And it's like, yeah, and it's like, this is a hard thing because you need to, yeah, the clutch is fine. It's like, let me be your clutch. And you're like, go, go, go, so that's romantic. It's not fucking horrible.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Um life-threatening.

Robby 18:43

Yeah, because then there's a person in the passenger seat that thinks they're about to die. They have no control. Yeah. Um, yeah, very funny, very silly things you used to do back in the day.

George 18:53

Then we all just do things like that. I have another thing we should you should have as a business partner. Often we'd be like, hey, Robbie, let's get into business. We're friends, we do this, this is great. We get along well, let's get into business together. Put it in paper. Put it on paper. 100%. Have an agreement in place, like a proper drafted agreement, be a solicitor or AI, whatever it is. It's an agreement between two parties to say, this is what we do, this is what we're about, this is what happens if Robbie wants to sell his business or wants to sell out of the business. This is the process. He can't sell it to his brother, his cousin, his mum, his friend. He has to sell it back to me.

Robby 19:30

Yeah, lay out all of the possible scenarios up front.

George 19:34

Yeah.

Robby 19:35

Uh, and I think having it on paper, like, because like in that moment, you agree on something. Yeah. Circumstances change, life changes. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Um, people change.

George 19:46

It's kind of like it's like a prenup almost, you know. It's like you're you're agreeing to what happens with what everyone brings into the party and all that sort of stuff.

Robby 19:54

By the way, I am so pro-prenup.

George 19:57

Yeah, absolutely. I I'm listening to a podcast at the moment. I don't know if you've you're listening to it too, on Chris Williamson and that he's that famous lawyer guy, that divorce lawyer with all the tats. Have you seen him? Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, yeah.

Robby 20:08

The New York lawyer.

George 20:08

Yeah, that guy. And I'm listening to the podcast at the moment. And he put it the best way that I could understand. He goes, I uh the prenup, he goes, he reckons he wants to just normalize prenups in any scenario, every case. He goes, Why not having a prenup isn't me trying to screw you over. He goes, it's actually my way of protecting you even from me. Right. He goes, because if you get into a relationship for 10 years, right, so everything prior like is yours. That's fine. But if you're in a relationship for 10 years, and let's just say that traditionally the man provides, the man does everything he's got to do. He makes a lot of money during that time or a little bit, whatever it is. And the woman sacrifices her career to raise the children, right? So for 10 years, her earning capacity is completely gone.

Robby 20:51

Yeah.

50-50 vs 51-49 And Deadlocks

George 20:51

Now it's not fair that the man can just take all the money, take everything he's got. He's got his business, he's got his career, she'll get a bit of money, and that's it. So this is a fair and proper way for I love you so much that I want to look after you in the event that this doesn't work out. Right now, I love you more than anything. Maybe in 10 years' time, it's a possibility. We're not together. Now I want to protect you now from 10 years' time. And vice versa. Like she would be doing the same thing. Yeah, you're right. Look, you've accumulated all this wealth, all this success, all this business, whatever it might be. I want to protect you from me in the future. So I thought that was a fantastic way to look at it. And that's kind of like an agreement between two partners in a business is the same thing as well. Hey, we're mates right now. I want to protect you from me and protect our friendship. Because if it's in writing and we agree because we're both clear of mind and sound of mind right now, we have the right intentions. I'm not trying to screw you over. Okay. My intention as your friend, as a bit as a potential business partner today is not to screw you over. In 10 years, it might be. So I'm going to protect you from 10 years from now. George.

Robby 22:01

Yeah, I I I think that's one angle you heard it from.

George 22:05

Yeah, that's one. But it's also something that's fair and reasonable.

Robby 22:08

I'll tell you a sick, a great angle I heard it from. Someone said, I can't remember, might have been uh maybe it was Patrick Bed David. Maybe not 100%. But he said and this was the thing where I was like, this makes so much sense. He's like, you have a prenup agreement anyway. Yes, it's just written by the government. That yeah, the same guy said it. Yeah, he's like, it's just written by the government. That's right. There's already one. Why don't you just have your own that you both agree to? He's like, why would you go? Like he goes, the government's gonna decide what happens later. That's exactly what it happens. You guys decide what happens.

George 22:43

Yeah, it's even like the the kids and everything, the assets, like how everything is like the government's already decided what that's gonna be for.

Robby 22:49

Because the biggest pushback is, oh, you know, you you're banking on the relationship failing, blah, blah, blah. And it's like there's already something in place if it fails. Yeah. So it's like having your own thing in place is not negative or bad, or you know what I mean? You're not fucking unromantic by having something in place. I completely agree. You have something in place purely, and again, it's not about it's it's about protection of both parties.

George 23:12

Yes, exactly that.

Robby 23:13

It's protection of both parties. That's right. You know what I mean? And like most men, okay, I think I can say this for most men. If you're going through a divorce, especially if you've got kids, like you don't want that person to be you want your kids to be okay. Yeah, of course. You want that person to have what they need to do. Of course, sufficient to raise your kids. And I'm not talking about like fucking food stamps and just making sure they can eat. I'm talking about making sure they're comfortable so they can actually focus on children. Yeah, and living, yeah, exactly and not have to worry about survival. Yeah. Right. Um, but yeah, I'm so fucking so pro peanut.

George 23:50

In saying that, I never got one, but yeah. But I but these are the years that have come since. I didn't know anything any better back then. Yeah, you know, and again, I'm sure back then everyone, if I said, hey, let's get a prenup, and mind you, it's not like I was at at 27 when I got married, I was fully set up in my life and had millions of dollars worth of assets or anything like that. So it's probably also a matter of, well, we're kind of starting our life together anyway, and we're starting from zero, so let's just go. It's gonna be 50-50 regardless. But but again, what's to say it's not? What's to say someone gets really nasty at the end and goes, no, fuck you, I'm going for everything. You bashed me. I'm coming for everything. And they that's not true, but you've got to prove it wrong and all these sorts of shit. And you hear so many um Oh, well, we had a mate that went through the worst of the worst, you know, and it was a it was phenomenal. It became like his his case was so bad that it became case law, you know, and in his favor. Like it was just horrible what he went through. And it's like that was you know, three, four, five years worth of fucking pain and heartache and money and everything.

Robby 24:57

He he had a positive outcome though.

Roles, Resentment, And Decision Rights

George 24:58

He had in the end, yeah. But man, it touch wood. What if he killed himself halfway through? Right, because of the stress, because it was it was immense what he went through, you know, and it's like, well, had you had that agreement before you started, it probably would have got rid of a lot of that stuff within six months. Yeah. You know, so anyway, side note, but yeah, having an agreement in place, I think is critically important before you even start your business or within, you know, the first six months, whatever it is, get through that honeymoon period and go, cool, let's have our agreement now. This is what we need to do.

Robby 25:31

Yeah, I think that's that's super important. Um what else? I think it's also super important to make sure you aren't the same person.

George 25:38

Yeah. So how would you go about doing that from day one to day two 500?

Robby 25:43

Yeah, so I think when you're partnering with someone, they have to bring something to the table that you don't currently have. Yes. You know, and whatever that can be, uh, that can be one of I think it's four or five things that are gonna rattle them off. So one could be time. It might be like, hey man, like you know, we're gonna do this thing together. I've got no time. You know what I mean? You've got time, I need you to dedicate time and drive this thing. Another one could be money. That's like, hey, I want to kick this thing off, I'll fund it, you drive it. Another one could be knowledge, and it's like, I need someone here, I know how to do it, I'm lacking time, and money, or money sorted, you know, where I'm lacking time, I will teach you, but I need you to drive it.

unknown 26:26

Right?

Robby 26:27

Or I'll guide you, like I'll be your mentor on this journey, but we'll be a it'll be a partnership from an equity standpoint.

George 26:34

Uh there's also sweat equity too. So actually putting in the work both one or both parties.

Robby 26:40

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, sweat equity being the way you obtain the equity. Um, what have I said so far? Time, money, knowledge, uh, network, so like resources. So they might have access to tools, people, skills uh that you don't have access to.

George 26:59

Yeah.

Robby 27:01

And I think that's all for, man. And I think that like it's like they have to bring something to the table that you don't have.

George 27:08

Yeah.

Robby 27:09

Otherwise, what the fuck are you like? We're just doing this for fun.

George 27:12

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really important that the defined roles are really clear and what everyone does because I think it can build resentment too. And I've seen that with other people in business where they'll be like, okay, one party goes for coffees every fucking every day, goes for lunch every day, lives a high life, you know, drives a nice car, wears a suit, whatever it might be, just goes for coffees, enjoys his life. But and then the other person's in the office or on site or whatever, and they're fucking working hard like a dog, and they look at him and go, fucking look at this, what a life he's got. You know, I'm doing all the work breaking my back, and he's just out having coffees all day. But meanwhile, this person having coffees all day is like, I'm the mover, I'm the shaker, I'm the deal maker. I'm gonna go there and have a coffee with this person because when I have that coffee with this person, he introduces me here and he goes, Guess what? I just got us a job that made us five million dollars and you're doing the hammering of the nails or whatever it might be. But then this person's like, fuck that guy.

Robby 28:09

Yeah, he's not fucking with it. Or he's not doing anything.

George 28:11

Oh, what a life. And then, but this guy's like, hey, I just made us five million dollars in revenue bloke. What have you done recently? You know, so it's like it doesn't exist. No, that's right. This is only here because I've gone out to make coffee, and then there's that disconnect, right? Is the partnership there or is it not? That's that's um yeah, I'm hearing that feedback. Yeah, doesn't it? I don't know. Um I have to pause it.

Robby 28:36

That's fucking quite significant.

George 28:39

Will it come up on the on the show? Yeah, okay. Okay, pause. Needs some intermission. Nope, stopped. That's definitely stopped.

Robby 28:52

And we're back. Action. Shall we remove that? Yeah, probably.

George 28:58

Probably not. Thank you, fuck.

Robby 28:59

Do whatever you want.

Visionary And Integrator Framework

George 29:00

Do whatever you want, guys. So yeah, um, you're gonna have that disconnect between you if you don't have clearly defined roles and making sure that everyone understands this is what I bring to the table. Hey, I'm not putting nails into timber. I need you to understand that. Yeah, my skill set is here. I will keep bringing you the work, I will keep doing all this, this, this, and this. That is what you're you need to do. You're the operator, I'm the fact. No, you're the one doing the actual execution, I'll bring in the work and operations or whatever it might be.

Robby 29:33

There's a um, there's a really good set of books. Uh, I've read some of them. Um, they're from the EOS the entrepreneurial operating system. And uh, like one of them is called traction. You should read it, it's great. Like it's just a really good practical, like, this is how to fucking do meetings. Yeah, this is how, you know what I mean? Like, this is how your organization chart should be laid out. This is what you need to do from a values and blah blah blah standpoint. Um, and they talk about one of their models, they talk about having the the visionary and the integrator in a business. And they got a they got a book dedicated to that, and it's called Rocket Fuel. Oh, yeah, you've told me about that. Rocket Fuel? Yeah, the book. Uh yeah, I gave it to you.

George 30:19

Yeah, I think I might have it. Where's my book, man?

Robby 30:21

I thought it was a gift. Do you want it back? Keep it. Um I use it as a paperweight. Yeah, at least it's uh at least one of us is. Yeah. Um, yeah, and they're talking about visionary integrator, right? And it's like, cool, one person is the person that drives the direction, and the other person is the person that actually, you know, does the makes the shit that the because like a visionary can sit there and talk all day, and if nothing happens, nothing happens. And an integrator can sit there and work all day, but if they're working on the wrong things and not going in the right direction, you know, it's irrelevant. Um, and they talk about how they work together and how, you know, whilst they're both very separate roles, they're both very important roles, and they that's right. One can look like you know, like the integrator in that scenario can look like they are working way more, you know, because the visionary is a visionary, but like the integrated without the visionary is nothing. Yeah, I mean you can sit there running on a treadmill all day and you're not gonna get very far. You lose weight, you won't get far though. Um, and I thought that's that's really interesting because then it's like that's clearly defined roles. Yeah. That's like, hey man, I'm doing this, you're doing that. Um and touching on that as well, I think something that's super important, and people don't do this at the start of a business, is people should be paid based on what they do. So there should be you need to separate profits uh from pay. Uh does that make sense? Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. So if if one person if one person's working in the business and the other person is just an equity holder or a silent partner or whatever. Yes, without a doubt. The person who's dedicating more time should be paid more. If someone works in the business one day a week and the other one works five days a week, they should be paid based on their own.

George 32:08

Yeah, their actual hours and think of it as an employee to the business. They are they are a cog to the business.

Robby 32:14

You gotta someone, I can't remember who it was, they use this term with me. They're like, my goal is to make myself redundant in my business. You know what I mean? So it's like, how do I replace me at every point in time? Like right now, I'm doing this thing. How do I pay someone else to do this thing? Yeah. So I don't have to do the thing. Yep. And I think about that a lot. It's like that's the best kind of business, dude.

Separate Pay From Profit

George 32:38

Yeah, I like as I said, I've got a five-year plan not to be at PASCON anymore. Yeah, that's my five-year plan. And it's like, well, I've I've got to start laying that out and I'll have a chat with my GM when the time comes. But this, I'm gonna say, this is the five-year plan as far as me not being in the business. And like yesterday I was speaking to accounts and I was like, cool, I'm gonna start getting you to do more of this because I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want that to be a part of my role, and I don't want that to be a part of our day-to-day operations. I'm gonna upload you, I'm gonna upskill you to do this element of that process. And that's just one thing I can take off my plate, and it's all under control, and I know that that's gonna be done. And I'm like, great, now what's the next thing I can take off my plate? And I go, here, here, and I'll get because in construction, I'll get lots of people emailing me. And like, you know, you said the other day, just before now the other day, you just said, now we had that one company that you have three different people that you would email, yeah, and different people would respond and give conflicting messages and all that sort of shit. People message me now from a say a trade base, they'll they'll email me about XYZ and like, hey, don't call me. Like this, I go, please speak with this person regarding this. I'm not your person to speak to. I had a contractor call me the other day and he's like, Oh, I'm just gonna have guys there on site on Monday. I said, Don't, why are you talking to me? I said, Hey, that's great. I'm glad you're pushing the job. You need to coordinate it with the supervisor, not with me. I have no idea about what he has organized. He might have a crane book for that day, he might have the road blocked, he might have a thousand and one things, and I'm not gonna tell you yes, go ahead and do it, and then I fuck up his day. But also, I'm doing other shit. I'm over here, and it's not my role. So I want to make myself redundant from a lot of that stuff. Yeah, and I I often I actually had that when I first started my business. My dad was working with me as a construction manager, and people often play us off each other. They'd be like, Oh, George told me it's okay to do this. And my old man was like, I don't give a fuck what George says. I'm on site, you fucking speak to me. And then vice versa. They'd go on to him and say, or they'd come to me and say, Oh, Steve, Steve wants me to um said I should be here on Tuesday and I'm gonna come Wednesday. I'm like, oh, okay, well, whatever you guys said. And then I'd speak to my old man. He's like, I never fucking told him that. He goes, he's just spoken to you. And so we made really clear defined roles with all our stakeholders in the business, subbies, suppliers, employees. This is what he does, this is what I do. Go. Don't speak to us about anything operation, don't speak to me about operations. I don't know, I don't care. I care that he's doing it, but I don't care for me to do it. So I think that's really important to have your clearly defined roles and what you do in the business.

Robby 35:20

Yeah. Um, yeah, I I think that's super, super, super important. Otherwise, again, that you like you said, you can build that level of resentment. And so I think, man, like I'm fucking, you know, I'm doing all the fucking work here and blah blah blah.

George 35:36

Yeah, and if you're getting remunerated for that work, fantastic. Yeah, well, I mean, you can be like, hey, I'm getting a salary, that's fine. Like, I should be, I'm working hard, yes. Yeah, I'm working so there's no, there's no, there's no disconnect from that. Um, yeah, I think that's very important. What else? Uh there was something else. Oh, what skill sets are you actually bringing? So let's just say you and me were both we're going into a business and we're gonna start a media company. Okay. I'm really good with camera, and you're really good with sales. Okay, so I think that's a good partnership straight up. Yeah. If we're just starting it out. You can do the I can bring in the work and you can do it. I can go and film. I'm a great editor, I'm a great shooter, I can do all that sort of stuff. You can run the ads, you can get the clients, bang. What a great partnership. We both are bringing strengths. I give you a camera and you're like, which which one, which button do I press for play? And like, hey, don't touch it, you'll break it. But vice versa, like I'll be like, oh, hey, I want to film a job. Oh, okay. I think we charge$150 for something like that. And then you come at me and you start yelling at me, uh, what the fuck?$150 doesn't pay for our trip to site.

Robby 36:53

$150 just to talk to you.

Making Yourself Redundant

George 36:55

That's right. So uh having different skill sets and the way you do things now. Um or it could be from a perspective of I'm really good at delegating, you know, directing people, and you might be really good at the systems, at the process, at the paperwork side of things. I'm just good with the people and the delegation and the directions and all that sort of stuff, but you're really good at the systems, processes, deliverables. So I think in your business, what strengths do you both bring? And do you cover each other's weaknesses so that you're both killing it in that space? You know, for me in my business at the moment, I don't need another me. I don't need someone that's that can do sales, that can speak to people that's influential, that drives a business. I need operators. I need someone that's gonna do the do, do the do on a day-to-day basis. On the ground. Yeah, I need the ground people. That's what I need. So I'm not gonna bring a business partner in that's exactly like me. It's just not beneficial to the business. So that's who I would be looking for. Until you're ready to make yourself a done. That's right. Until I get to the point where we're going, hey, I don't want to talk to people anymore. I don't want to do sales, I don't want to do hiring and firing.

Robby 38:08

Yeah, I think skill sets uh one element, I think the other side's uh personality. Yeah. So so I think uh value alignment, you know what I mean? I think you have to, and this is uh I used to work with someone prior, uh and this was how I got introduced to the whole funnels and that, right? And we went into business together, and uh we were good friends and we wanted really different things. We didn't know that until we started, so and when I say we wanted really different things, like I wanted to build a big company and blah blah blah, and uh this person wanted to have a lifestyle business, neither of them is right or wrong, they're just different, right? Now, if I want to build a company with a hundred people and do a hundred million dollars and blah blah blah, and you want to do the best you can to work four hours a week, we're gonna clash. Right? Neither of them is right or wrong, they are just super, super, super different. Yeah, and um yeah, we chose to part ways pretty quickly. Yeah, it was, but it was also like a hey man, like this is this is gonna get in the way. It's either save the relationship and burn the business, yeah, or we can try and save the business and end up probably burning the relationship. Yeah, then we chose to burn the business and save the relationship.

George 39:38

Awesome. That's good. Yeah, I I um recently I've got a friend who I'm trying to get onto the podcast actually, and he'll be here soon. He's keeps brushing us off, but I'll fucking getcha. But I have no idea he did. It's all right. Um recently he's been in business for 10 years with a business partner and recently split, right? As far as sold his portion of the business to his business partner. Now, they've been friends for 20 years, they've been in business together for 10 years, and they've known nothing else other than each other in business for the last, you know, since they've been out and doing it themselves. And outside of looking in, I don't know much of the details. I just know high-level stuff, but it was an amicable split. They did something, they were, they did it fair and reasonable. They went and got external people, they got some, they said, This is what I think the business is worth, this is what I think the business is worth. They kind of went back and forth a little bit and said, look, do we really want to go spend$30,000 on our accountant to do an in-depth analysis and see what the business is worth when we're just talking about$20,500, you know,$30,000? Let's just split it in the middle. That's what I think it's worth, that's what you think it's worth, you pay me that, and vice versa. And then you own 100%. And they ended up going down the path of selling the business to the other business owner, and it was amicable.

Robby 40:58

What was the reason? I don't know if you can share this, but what was the reason for the split?

George 41:02

The reason was uh life changes. So I won't go into it. He can say the story, but it was just it was a time that the other person wanted out. He did not had it. I think there might have been an element of it being enough as well. Like, I just don't want to do this anymore. I've run my race.

Robby 41:18

So one person wanted out.

George 41:19

Yeah, one person wanted out, yeah. And and just other lifestyle factors too. And it's like, look, I think I'm I'm ready to move on. And they had that conversation. We're like, cool, let's do this.

Clear Stakeholder Communication

Robby 41:28

But that's yeah, but that's so that's like a a very fair because like the reason why most people split is kind of like a fuck you, man. I'm gonna fucking I'm gonna open up next door, I'm gonna fucking show you, blah, blah, blah.

George 41:42

Um none of that at all. And if anything, it's like they'll still do business together as contracting to each other in the future and say, hey, if you ever need this, this, or oh, I'm gonna get some clients come my way, because this guy's a mover and a shaker. He was the in the in the business, he was the one that did a lot of, that brought a lot of the deals in. Yeah, and the other guy was the one that was more operational. So he goes, look, I don't want to do this anymore, but I still get a lot of people coming my way. I'll send them to you, you know, so that way you can still get that and you just give me a finders fee for every successful project you land or whatever it might be. So there's um I think that was great to see, you know, that was great to see that these guys came together and then split amicably as well and are still friends now. All right. So not only did they manage to part ways in the business, they've also managed to keep the relationship. So they didn't have to burn the business to save the relationship, or vice versa, you know, burn the relationship, but save the business. So I thought that was fantastic to see. You know, you don't often hear it these days.

Robby 42:46

Yeah, definitely.

George 42:47

It was like it's like the divorce thing. Yeah, it's the same thing. Same thing. You know, you you often don't hear, look, sometimes you do hear about amicable divorces, and just everyone's like, no, cool, let's go this way. Let's go, yeah, cool, we'll still hang out.

Robby 43:00

Not often, though.

George 43:01

No, no, it's like very rare where it's they they still remain friends or on took talking terms, and and you know, I've even heard of some people where they still go away together, but with their new partners. So all the kids are together. I've heard that's weird. I know, but like, okay, cool. If you're still having that relationship, I think it's fucked. It's fair. But that is that is weird. I I I it's weird. Uh but if that's what's if that's what if you're okay with that, then you're weird. Yeah, then you're weird. But in the same token, is it better to be in full hate and disgusting?

Robby 43:37

It's definitely better it's a better scenario, isn't it?

George 43:40

Uh then you know Yeah, then I'm gonna take you for the I'm gonna take you, I'm gonna take the house, I'm gonna burn all our savings on court. Restraining or yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right.

Robby 43:49

So it's definitely a better scenario. Um But yeah, it all I guess that all comes down to the reason.

George 43:56

Yeah, correct.

Robby 43:58

Do you know what I mean?

George 43:58

Yeah, why are they split?

Robby 44:00

Uh yeah, like imagine you f you find out, for example, you find out your business partner's stealing.

George 44:04

Yeah, that's right. Exactly. Exactly. And then I'm sure in that instance the spl the split wouldn't be like, oh, let's be reasonable. I'll give you a few. That's what I'm saying. You're like, hey, you're a fucking dog. Exactly. You just funneled$300,000 out of our account to go and buy to go fund your cocaine fucking addiction. Why did we both get a claim? I don't know. I don't know. Um, like, no, you're done. You're done. I'm I'm taking you to the cleaners, I'm suing you, I'm doing this, I'm fucking, you're out of the business. That's what then you should also have a clause in there if something like that happens in your agreement.

Robby 44:36

If you funnel$300,000 for cocaine, this is what happens. This is the cocaine clause.

George 44:41

Like, this is the cloak, the cocaine and hookers clause, that's what it is, you know. Um, but you as silly as it sounds, like you says it like, don't leave anything to chance. Try and cover as many bases as you possibly can in that moment to protect you in the future if one of you goes off the rails.

Agreements, Prenups, And Protection

Robby 44:59

Wise man once said to me, Um, you don't need a contract until you need a contract. That's right. That's right. What a guy. Um, and I was saying to someone the other day, so we have contractor agreements we put in place with anyone that we get as a contractor. Yep. And uh, so like, for example, if we're gonna get a contractor to uh shoot some photos or do video for it, etc., they sign an agreement, blah blah blah. We've never had anyone do anything wrong. If we did, we're covered because we've got a contractor agreement. But the question becomes like, have they not done anything wrong because there's an agreement in place? Yeah, I mean, is it like is it because I was talking to someone at the same time, is it because you send them the agreement, they sign it all of a sudden they're on good behavior? Without a doubt. There is a level of that for sure. I've signed something here.

George 45:47

Yeah, it's funny. It is funny how that changes the psychology of people and how they act.

Robby 45:53

Yeah, for sure.

George 45:53

And I recently used that to my advantage. I had a person who didn't want to complete his obligation under the contract, and I used it against him. He's like, Oh, I don't want to do that, I can't do this anymore. I said, You don't have an option, my friend. Like you're doing this, or I'm suing you. Like, either like you have the option. There's always options. You have three. You do the work and we move, we split amicably. You pay me out the contract because I'm gonna now have to engage someone else to do the work, or I sue you and I will win because this you're blatantly walking away from an agreement that you have an obligation to fulfill. Right. And your change of circumstance doesn't change your obligations to the contract. And I use that term, and as a result, the person came back and finished. Now that was a great result for both parties. Okay, I'm glad he was. Oh, did they come back and finish? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay, that's great. Yeah, well, I but I only because I had to I had to play my heart, my heart, my hand. I was like, hey, don't like I'm I'm at my wit's end with people at the moment when it comes to stuff like that, from clients to sub used to that sort of stuff. That's a fucking great story. Fantastic result. It wasn't me trying to screw him over. I did honestly, I told him I'm trying to help him. Yeah, I said, I'm I'm here to help you. If you need, I'll give you my apprentice. On top of that, you're here to get the job done. I need to, I have an obligation. I have a contractual obligation to my client. All right, they're not going to turn around and say, Oh, your plumber's not coming back. Oh, that's okay. That's all right. I understand. We don't need to be a big second toilet.

Robby 47:23

Yeah, don't worry about it. All right, didn't need the hug, like if I patch up the whole bucket.

George 47:28

Yeah. We'll be right. We'll move on. So yeah, I had to use it, and that was a great result for everyone. Because if I just shook his hand, all right, and said, Oh, let you know you're the plumber well done on this job, I'd and I'd try to call him and say, Hey, where are you? I'm done, man. Sorry it out, yeah. Yeah, sort it out, sorry.

Robby 47:46

That that is, dude. That that you have to tell this, you have to share that story. Like that is it. It's a great story to say, like, this is what happened, and had I not had this in place, I would have been fucked.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

Yeah.

Robby 47:58

Do you know what I mean? And then I would have turned around and complained about the industry and said I'm not making enough money and bar trades are fun. And then every other plumber I then go and work with is gonna get the worst of me because I've been stooged by a plumber and I'm gonna be like, you know, what if this guy does it to me? What if this guy does it to me? But it's all because I didn't have the right systems and processes in place to make sure that I'm covered from that. Correct. That's great. That's good. That's fucking stories. I didn't know that. I didn't even know that. Two great stories. How good? Uh that's a great um great outcome. Yeah. Um going back to the values thing. Yes. Yeah. So I think you have to have an alignment on values. I think you have to be, you have to want the same stuff and you have to value the same things. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Uh if there's two people that work together and one is like, oh, I want to work with um, I want to work with people who are passionate and blah blah blah, and I care for my clients, and then the other one's like, fuck the clients, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? It's like they're gonna clash. Yep. If one person is like, I care about my team, blah, blah, blah, and the other one's like, fuck slaves, you know, employees, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, they're good, you're gonna clash. You know what I mean? You need to have alignment on those things, and um what's gonna be the things like what what what are we trying to do here? Do you know what I mean? What's driving us forward? What's the purpose? And you need to have alignment on that. Yeah, otherwise I reckon that that can build resentment over time as well.

SPEAKER_03 49:29

Yeah.

Robby 49:30

You know what I mean? Um, so I think there's both sides to it. I think there's the skill set side, and then there's the personality side.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

Yeah.

Robby 49:38

Um, you know, find out, are you both are you both fucking uh what's it called? Alpha. Yeah. Are you both like both gonna be in the business, both you know, trying to be a top dog inside the business, and then you're gonna clash, you know, and then and then what happens when you clash, all your employees see? It's like it's like when your parents are fighting and they're trying to pretend like everything's okay, but it's not, you know, and then you two are butting heads and they're saying, and then and then they start to play you off each other. Oh, but he said, oh, but you know, she said, he said, blah blah blah. And it just uh it's a slippery slope. Absolutely.

George 50:15

I think also, let's just say you're in business and you're wildly successful, you hit the big time, you make heaps of money, heaps of coin. I think it's going to be important that you understand as well. Well, how do we split money? How do we spend money? Can I go buy a car without asking you? Can I go and buy milk without asking you? Like, at what point do we need to reconcile and come together and say, hey, what can and can't we do with the business money, with the profits, with whatever it might be? Can I go on a holiday? Can I use the Amex? And I use the Amex for the whole trip. Can I buy flights on the on the on the trip on the um card? Can I buy my accommodation and food and all that sort of shit? Like at what point, because you don't want to then go and do that thinking, oh, I'm entitled to this, we make good money this year, whilst the other person's at the office going, fuck this guy. Yes, spending you just spent two grand on Disneyland tickets. Like, what the fuck?

Robby 51:10

Um, yeah, that's a good point. You should have a set of guidelines, like maybe a uh threshold on what you know, like anything sub X. You just process anything over X.

George 51:28

Yeah.

Amicable Splits And Valuations

Robby 51:28

Let's have a conversation. Yeah, let's have a conversation, let's have approval. Um I think, and I also I know someone who had this built into their uh I think you can build it into either zero or something, or or maybe it's internal process. I'm not sure how they made it operate, but anything like they they run a successful company, and anything over I think it was 5k couldn't be so anything sub 5k could work. Yeah, anything over 5k required you couldn't process the payment.

George 52:01

Yeah, so you couldn't you can probably put a block on your card like that, or a hold point or something like that.

Robby 52:09

Yeah, but it's like it wasn't a daily limit. I think it was like a single transaction of like so cool, like if you need to pay all the supplies, you need to pay a grand, a grand, two grand, whatever, you can do that, like but anything sub, like if you you're gonna go pay a$27,000 invoice, that needs to be approved.

George 52:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, because how do I know that invoice isn't from your brother and going yeah, then you're spending it later.

Robby 52:31

And you need to have when you've got a company that's you know doing quite because you like I don't know, I still control accounts now, but like um the goal is to get to the point where you don't you know what I mean? And then it's like, well, what processes do you have in place that allow you to keep your finger on the pulse? Um you can still see everything, but you're not doing the do. You know what I mean? And then speaking on that, actually, I think a a a good thing to do regularly is to review numbers. You know, I mean sit down and say, okay, cool, like where what's what's working, what's not. Um and sometimes that conversation in and of itself can be the thing that allows you to move forward. Yeah. You know, and then if there is any leaky holes, you numbers don't lie.

George 53:19

No. No, exactly right. And if you have that on a regular basis, I think you've got to have that on a regular basis as business partners. Have a monthly catch up where you go through numbers or weekly or whatever you want to do or quarterly. Like you've just got to know where the numbers are at and what direction you're going in. Because as I said, it could be a blind spot that one person's not seeing that the other will. Uh, and it could just be a real quick, simple fix that has a huge effect on your bottom line. So I think that's uh that's critically important when in business, whether it's with someone or without someone, to do that check anyway.

Robby 53:51

Yeah, I agree. What else is important? Um so we've spoken about skills, we've spoken about personality, we've spoken about agreements, we've spoken about numbers. Is there anything else that's super important? What do you do if you're in a bad one? Right now, someone listening to this is like, man, everything you just explained. It's like the complete opposite. Yeah, it's like I'm in the complete opposite uh you know, business relationships. They just took money out for cocaine. Yeah, they've just literally they just ticked over 300k. Yeah. Um what do I do? They spend expenses on everything and anything.

George 54:39

Yeah, they're well you've got to if you're okay. Let's if you're in that extreme scenario, yeah, maybe not that extreme. Yeah, but okay, let's just say you've got some irritants in your business, right? Some things that are irritating you that the other business partner is doing. You've got to have the conversation. And it's not too late to get an agreement in place. It's not too late. You could be five years in. Okay, so hey, look, I want to have an open chat with you about XYZ. This is irritating me. It never used to, but now it does. I just want to have the discussion because of because I don't think I don't want to hold it in, and then in next year I'm going to turn around and be like, This is bothering me. This is this is fucked and lose it at you. And it's not even your fault. You don't even know what you're doing. And vice versa. Is there anything that I'm doing that annoys you? So I think you have to have the conversation. All right. And it might be uncomfortable. Well, fucking get used to it, bloke. It's business. Okay. It's not your children, it's not you just having fun. This is an element of discomfort and having difficult conversations is part of the process. You'll be you'll be better for it. You'll be so much better for it. Yeah. There'll be like you'll probably feel 10 times better walking out of that conversation than when you walked in. So having that um you can use these dot points, all right? Everything we've spoken about today. Say, hey, these are the high-level things that we need to speak about. I just want to have a really clear direction because if we're going to make this work, because why are we in business? Right? What are we here for? What are we trying to do? What are we trying to achieve? Do you want to work your four hours or do you want to make some fucking bank? Because I'm here to make bank.

Robby 56:14

And that's yeah, that's why it's important to make sure that you both want the same thing.

George 56:19

And and the conversation could be, it could be, hey, I don't want that.

Robby 56:23

Yeah, or it could be I don't want to.

Values Alignment And Culture

George 56:26

I can't, I can't. The reason I've dropped off over the last six months is I'm mentally checked out. I can't fucking do this job anymore. Like I I've just, I'm sorry, man. I've just been dropping the ball, but I just don't give a fuck. I've got this going on at home, I've got this going on with my friends. I've just, I'm, I just don't like what I do anymore. And I want out. And then, okay, good. Then you've got some clarity, you've got some direction. You go, okay, man. Well, let's get the process of getting you out of the business. Like, let's see what that looks like. And then you have those, but look, hopefully at that stage, it's still amicable because then he might turn around and say, Yeah, well, look, I do most of the work. So I want about 80% of, I want you to buy me out for 80% of the business. And then you've got a problem. All right. So we want to try and avoid these types of problems. But the sooner you have the conversation in your business partnership, the better it's going to be.

Robby 57:15

Yeah.

George 57:16

And I think the um and even if it's good, even if everything is really good, okay? Like you don't have to wait for it to get bad before you have this conversation. Let's pretend you're five years in and what a fucking partnership. You guys are killing it, you're doing really well, you get along great. Coming to work isn't a chore, you enjoy it. Have the fucking conversation still. Say, hey, I've been thinking about it. Everything's great. I'm still enjoying everything that I'm doing. I think we've got to have a conversation about just operational stuff and really make things fair and reasonable because we're growing and in five years' time, you might want to sell out, I might want to sell out, we both might want to sell out. What does that look like? Let's have all these conversations.

Robby 57:53

And um just over-communicating throughout the whole process. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like over-communication. Um I read this book called The Four Laws of a Corporate Something. I can't remember what the fuck it was called. I'll give you the proper name. Um it's called The Four Something. The Four Obsessions of an Extraordinary Executive. Yeah. And one of them was over-communication. You know, and I found that really really cool. Because like communication, dude, is like it's one of the most important things in any dynamic. Whether it's uh a personal relationship, a professional relationship, the way you speak to yourself, you know what I mean, like your thoughts. Uh I think it's one of the most important things, and I think we people don't communicate well enough. Oh, without a doubt.

George 58:52

You know what I mean? And I've been victim, I must admit, I've been victim of that too.

Robby 58:56

Yeah, I think I've been.

George 58:57

I've been a poor communicator with friends in the past, with my with my wife, with kids. All right, I haven't told them something that they should, that I should have told them, whatever it might be. So I've ever I think everyone experiences poor communication at some stage of their life.

Spending Rules And Controls

Robby 59:11

Yeah, but it's it's not like it's not a yes, it's not a black-white thing. Yeah, it's like a spectrum. Yeah. It's like on what com level are you communicating, and how could you, you know, if you were this ends like you're just a mute, and this end is like you don't shut the fuck up. Which by the way, you can talk a lot and be a bad communicator. Yeah, yeah. Um but uh you want to find out where you're at on that spectrum and say, okay, cool, how do I go over to communicate? Dude, it's like someone said to me the other day, this the a message, uh communication is not what you say, it's what they hear, or something like that. You know, the message, it's not about what I say, it's about what you how you receive it. You know what I mean? So I could say, hey man, George, this has been great, this is sick. I'm enjoying this podcast so much. I love this podcast, man. This is great. And I could leave, and then you could be like, Well, why do you say that? Does he not like the podcast? And did people like that? Well, why did he bring that up now? What made you say that? Yeah, what's the thing? Is someone dying? Yeah, what is going on? And it's like, well, then that's what the message that you got from it is. Yeah, regardless of how I said it, that's what you heard. You know what I mean? So it's all about what the what the end person hears. And if I think it when you purposefully choose to over-communicate, uh, and then something I do with my team as well, is like I always tell them like, like, so you know what to do? So what are you doing now? Like, and then get funny to repeat it back to me and be like, okay, cool. Like, I now know that you understood the thing that I've told you because you've just told me what you've done.

George 1:00:43

That's so funny. I had that conversation with um my PA yesterday. She's like coming in and she's doing some account stuff, and she's like, Oh, I've done this. I'm like, Yes, but you gotta do it like this, and then you have to do it like this. This is pay, this is receivable, this is payable. And she's like, Oh, I'm like, you don't you don't understand, you don't you don't fucking understand, do you? Like, just tell me you don't understand. And she's like, no, no, but I've got to do it like this, and then I've got to okay, no, like this, like this. Anyway, but maybe it I think it was the way I was explaining it. All right. So I don't think the way I was communicating it to her was in a way that she understood. So I had to then go back and because I was getting frustrated too. I was like, you I don't know what the fuck I'm paying. All right. I'm like, what am I paying now? I don't know how much I have to pay. I just want to pay them this much money, but now I have to fucking go and get the invoices, put them together, add them up on calculator, and pay that. I just want it in the system, so I press a button and I pay them. And I know I'm paying them exactly what I owe them, not over, not under. That's what they're getting paid. Okay, but the only way for you to do that is if you upload the invoices, do it like this, and so on and so forth. So, yeah, I then had to go back and and sort of reframe how I was explaining it to her so she could understand on her end. So, yes, it's definitely uh uh uh communication to the person and how they're receiving it is very important.

Robby 1:02:08

I think another thing on communication as well. Communication's a great uh we could do a whole episode on communication, um, but communication the other day a client sent an email and it came through to me and another team member and I read the email same fucking words, yeah, like words on an email. I read it, the other person read it, the other person went and actioned it, okay? Which I thought cool, like well well done. They went actioned it and then they came back and they brought the results of the action and then I looked at the result and I said, Hey man, I read this differently. Like I read this email in this way, and you read it in that way. And both of us could be right. But I was right. Of course. But what is it that does that? Because I couldn't I even in that moment, I'm like, is this what is it? Like, is that just like am I just better at reading emails than you? Like what what is it? Like how I couldn't understand what the lack was there. Does that does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

George 1:03:23

Look, it could be a whole bunch of things. It could be experiences to date, it could be again the interpretation of the words. Yeah, but so understanding.

Robby 1:03:31

What is it that defines your interpretation of a sentence? It could be your experience to date, like everything you've experienced in your life. You ever said something to someone in a way and they take it in a completely different way? Like you say, yeah, you're sick. I can't think of anything at the moment, but yeah. This one sits in my head, lives rent-free. And you say, Are you sick? And they say, Sick of what? And you say, What the fuck? That's not how I meant that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:01

It was like, are you sick? I'm the fucking sickest.

Numbers Cadence And Transparency

Robby 1:04:03

Yeah, yeah. But but at least that's kind of close because you're using sick in a different way. Yeah, yeah. So it's like you took the sentence in a when you're saying sick of what? I didn't say are you sick of anything. Yeah. I'm asking if you're sick. Like you're like, yeah. If you've got a disease, yes, do you need to stay away? Yeah, and they're asking if you're bored or something. Yeah. It's like you took that sentence in a whole different way to how I meant it. What is it that I guess it's a context. Maybe.

unknown 1:04:32

Yeah.

Robby 1:04:32

Anyway. But communication. Communication is super important and regular, regular communication. Uh the regular more regularly you do it, the less tedious it becomes. I think you should like the person too. Yeah, fucking oath.

George 1:04:49

Yeah.

Robby 1:04:49

I think if you fucking don't like the other individual, I think that's a problem. It's like being in maybe you didn't like your wife. Yeah. That would be a hard relationship. Even if she was a great mum and did everything.

George 1:05:02

I'm just gonna headbutt you when I fucking get home.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:07

Like if you if I pushed you in front of this car now, like what would be curious just to see what would happen. What would bounce more?

George 1:05:16

Um well, yeah. Um, but look, hey, this podcast is a partnership. This podcast is partnership. Um I want to bring up some beef with you right now. Go for on live. I um I don't think I get enough screen time on the on the uh yeah. I reckon it's more you, I think you're biased to the uh definitely I I did tip the team. I'm like, hey you guys. It's actually AI, isn't it? Uh well fuck. Getcha which AI are we using?

Robby 1:05:43

We've got to just move from chicken to Claude or Grok. It's cut through AI.

Fixing A Bad Partnership

George 1:05:48

Yeah, I did know that. Yeah, I did know that. But uh look, I have an issue with that. I think I need a bit more air time. You actually get the most screens. I think I'm better looking, so you know. Well, I mean, that makes sense. The AI knows what to go is. You you well, we've both lost uh uh a few kilos so we're looking good on camera these days you uh you tend to talk more on the podcast you know I think I've noticed that sometimes and I try not to so I try shut up um but you ask very good questions which then um makes me want to talk yeah so I think that's the the key to a yeah but look I mean the the partnership here for example I have not edited this I enjoy this great uh yeah this I'm great like don't take this the wrong way yeah this is a great now podcast yeah I don't know if he wants to do this anymore I think I've better start looking for a new podcast host the I have not edited a single fucking video out of the thousand videos that we've put together or that we that you or you and the team have put together I couldn't even tell you how to do it there is literally over a thousand videos on YouTube we don't fuck around we don't fuck around but I couldn't tell you how to do that I couldn't tell you what program you use I couldn't tell you what captions you use I couldn't tell you we clap at the start I don't get it I just do it because I'm pumped right like I don't know any of that shit but that's the partnership you can do that because that's your skill set because you have the team around you to do it I'd be like hey how much money does this cost 500 bucks cool here you go yeah or hey George we need new mics excellent how when do you want like do you want me to buy them on on the card on like what do you want? Let's do it also it's like well we have great conversations we get along we're friends so there's other elements of the the um the podcast that come together when we're doing this stuff and it's a great partnership and we're continuing it and we're gonna continue it and then maybe one day this podcast becomes million dollar days where we're making millions of dollars every month every day on the podcast and we don't do our day-to-day job this is our job and we go I I would I would dive into this immediately full time they're fucking around what do you think I've been doing this for a hundred and 122 weeks straight it's fun yeah it is it's fun we enjoy it and I'm sure one day it'll change where it does become a monetary thing but then we need to have that conversation yeah okay so may you say hey what happens when this is making a million bucks every month in listeners in sponsors and all that's like how do we spend the money do we go get a new studio do we go and buy new cars do we like what are we doing with that money what how do we reinvest how do we do it like how do we split everything because in all honesty we haven't had that conversation for the podcast yeah for the podcast we haven't had a conversation but hey what happens when this thing makes a million bucks a month what do we do like the general consensus is well it's 5050 yeah yeah that oh well we'll do the podcast on that that's where we would move it to um so but you'd be like oh yeah whatever 50-50 like that's what it is okay but then you do more editing than me so should you get 5149 like this is where you start to have the conversations but maybe it's a matter of doing the conversation now and having that conversation now because there's no disadvantage on the podcast there's the live negotiation of profit share of future funds coming in yeah so now's the time to have the conversation then because there's no disadvantage to it we're both in a good space everything's going well or maybe one day it turns out they say hey what happens if one of us doesn't want to do this anymore like they just wake up and hey it's I can't be fucked. Yeah honestly man this is the bane of my existence I used to love it or dude sometimes sometimes it's like sometimes it's internal sometimes external hey man I'm fucking I I got an opportunity in the US to buy yeah and I'm going yeah yeah million dollar days fucking going with million dollar days or you still yeah I don't know that's it that's the thing and it's like okay but what happens in that Joe called us up hey I've got a Joe called me what is it Joe called me Joe Rogan oh Joe called me I was like uh what's a Joe called I was like what is that I was like Joe Joe my mate big Joe Big J as as his friends call him yeah you guys wouldn't get it you would have known yeah that's okay don't stress you're not in the podcast world calls us up it's hey George I want you to come across bring million dollar days here but that Robbie guy not so sure I said nah nah come on he's coming he's all right all right I'll give you my blessings but you know what I mean is like hey calm down we're expanding I goes I I love you I love your talk I love what you guys are on about come on the show bring it down here we'll fucking make you massive in America it's gonna be sick all right let's go or maybe you say hey I'm gonna go just me my missus we're gonna go I said dude I've got my kids in school I got this I got I don't know if I can leave everything now to go to the States and live in Vegas and wherever the fuck we're gonna do everything we're gonna do. All right or we go yeah fuck it let's go what an adventure so what do you do in that scenario? Why wait why wait to get into that scenario let's have the conversation now for when he calls us and for when we get a plan for when Joe calls and Joe calls what's a Joe call what's a joke all um yeah so if you are you know in a business partnership and man I've seen many I'll tell you who are at this point most people know what we're about and what we do when I say we I'm talking about my my side of the equation and most of the partnerships I work with aren't great.

Over-Communication As A Habit

Robby 1:11:39

Some some are fantastic some are like always on the same page and some are like man like you you talk to them and you're like you guys are not you guys are complete in complete disagreement here. Like you know I mean and if I catch one of you the you just talk you you're you rant about the other one.

George 1:12:01

Yeah that's bad. I hate that yeah and it's like I've seen that with part with relationships like with other people yeah that's tough. That's fast no I've seen it I've seen people talking to one per like about their partner like even to my partner they'll talk to him and say oh he's fucked like the wife will talk about the husband or the girlfriend or whatever it might be like oh he's fucked and that's fucked up a nice way to live yeah and it's like hey you're talking about someone you're with if you don't like that person don't do with it.

Robby 1:12:28

Something about it yeah like that's that's a horrible and imagine that in business too that's no good. Yeah it's like you know like even in relationships are worse dude like you have to go to bed with that person. You have to live in the same you have to come home to your your space of like peace and you know this person you don't like is there. And then like when you live with someone there is a lot of overlap. They leave something on the bench they do this there's a cup in the sink yeah the bed's messy there's fucking hair here yeah the shower or you would gotta use a bathroom bathroom's occupied um all those things if you disliked the person all those things would annoy the hell out of you dude you know what I mean you want to watch something they're watching something yeah yeah that would that's not a nice um not a nice way to spend your limited time on this planet.

George 1:13:24

Yep and it's the same in business though because a lot of the time you're here more than you're at home as well. You know so it can be the the thing that annoys you here is they left the air conditioner on or they didn't put the dishwasher on before they left for work or they forgot to turn the alarm on. I'm the fuck I'm the worst of the dishwasher you are the worst oh I'm the only one that claims it you should see you should give me how much I swear at you in the mornings when I have to load the dishwasher the times when um just know that if you didn't do it and it's done it's Josh.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:54

What it was me it's always me um no I get pumped when I see it done yeah uh but yeah aircon yeah that's fucking that's it's the lowest y'all ain't paying the bills what a life we come in the morning and it's fucking a crisp fucking six degrees in the office don't need to do an ice bath today just fucking walk into the office walk into the office like a cryotherapy chamber.

George 1:14:20

Goodness goodness me how funny um has that happened which the air concept yeah the duds the meat no no no I've never walked not us I've never walked in hey in all fairness there has been a couple times this summer that I have left my air con on when I left sorry did you was it on I'll pay extra on the bill was it off when you came back no no no I got I came back the next morning and it was still on um that happens yeah yeah people get sick and um we're complaining about aircon bills that's right sick about what sick about what sick of what just lobbing that one up for me what can I say it's a good partnership it's damn straight damn straight and if you want to keep enjoying this partnership and making sure that we're back week on week on week just drop us a DM send us a comment do something get in touch say good day and even better subscribe share it with your friends share it with your family and someone in particular that Robbie wants you to share it with too your mother damn straight I reckon anyone anyone shared it with their mum I would love to know if you haven't if you haven't what the fuck are you doing hey dude I haven't shared it with my mum well my mum likes all the episodes oh she does but I'm I haven't shared it with I haven't specifically sent her the episode and said hey just sharing just letting you miss yeah just letting you know it's here my mum signed up to my newsletter on I get two I get because I got multiple email addresses I get it from yeah I get it from my Fascon email and my builder elite email do you like them? I read them all the time do you really I copy and paste them and put them into chat and say how can I send this to my Builder Elite people um speaking of Builder Elite on Wednesday in two days from now from the time you guys are listening to this right now no no why oh we've already done it shit hey we've got another builder summit coming up mid year May May in May most likely in May we'll let you know the details it's gonna be sick on that note what a life on that note um yeah subscribe share it with someone and uh if you do have a conversation that you need to be having with you know a business partner or maybe it's a personal relationship partner have it have the conversation go get a fucking prenupate go don't fuck around go get your prenup if you're not married yet get your prenup sorted um and yeah we hope you got a lot out of that and I I enjoyed that conversation I think it was good to lay those out uh and we look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Robby 1:17:14

Damn straight. Thanks guys. Alright thanks everyone