What Victoria’s New Work-From-Home Law Means For Employers

A legal “right to work from home” sounds simple until you’re the one responsible for payroll, clients, deadlines, and a team that does not all do the same kind of work. We dig into the proposed Victorian changes that give eligible workers a two-days-per-week work-from-home entitlement, and the part that really raises the temperature: it’s tied into the Equal Opportunity Act, which means refusals can be treated like discrimination and escalated through formal channels.

We’re honest about where we land. We like hybrid work when it’s earned, managed, and measured, but we don’t love the idea of being forced into it by law. That tension opens up the real questions: Are people actually as productive at home? Is it fair when site-based or customer-facing roles cannot access the same flexibility? And if a business owner can be required to accommodate remote work, should the business also have the right to cap in-office days when desks and space are limited?

Then we get practical. We walk through the systems that make remote work policy sustainable: communication rules in Slack, daily check-ins, mid-day and end-of-day reports, project management in Teamwork, time tracking tied to real tasks, and clear expectations around deliverables. We also talk about home office setup, boundaries, and why “trust” works best when it’s backed by simple processes that reveal reality fast.

If you’re a business owner, manager, or HR lead trying to plan for hybrid work, this is your playbook to start tightening the basics now. Subscribe, share the episode with a business mate, and leave a review so more people can find it.

Transcript

Budget Timing Correction And Politics

Robby 0:00

You know, I learnt a couple of things, George. About the budget from two episodes ago.

George 0:06

I learnt a lot. Yeah. You taught most of it to me.

Robby 0:10

But there's a couple of things I need to uh correct us me. Correct me on. Um I thought I was under the impression Well you know what? I'm gonna blame Claude. I was under the impression Yeah, you let AI do the work for you. Yeah, I was under the impression that uh it's valid from this first of July. Yep. Some of the stuff is valid from next financial year. Next financial year. Like not as in so not the the one coming, the following. Yeah. Um the housing one specific oh sorry, not the housing one, the the capital gains one. Yep. Specifically. Uh yeah, so so they whilst they've cooked people, haven't completely cooked them.

George 0:57

Well, look, there's every chance as well that it can go back to the way it was.

Robby 1:02

In that window.

George 1:02

Yeah. Well, it's not so much the writing, it's more now it gives the opportunity for oppositions, opposition governments to come out and say, well, vote us in and we'll scrap Labour's plan of re removing negative gearing, or we'll scrap this, we'll scrap that. So you're gonna see a lot of that in the next election for sure. Is when's the next election? I'm not too sure. I think it's a couple years away or a year away, something. So it's it's not too far. It's not too far for sure. It'll come up quick, but they'll use all that. They'll use all that campaign and and say, look at them, they're liars, they're this, they're that. And I think it's as I said, I still think it's detrimental to them the way they went about it. Have you seen all the memes lately about Alban Easy being business partners with everyone?

Robby 1:48

Yeah, the the guys from um uh do you know the boys from that company Kinzo? Kinzo? Everyone knows them. Do you know? Seriously? No.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

No idea. I never heard of Kinzo until right now.

Robby 2:01

Until this moment?

George 2:03

You know you're a funny guy. But you've also never heard of anything. No, that's true. Um outside of construction and and Albert Park. I don't know anything.

Robby 2:12

Yeah, if it's not if it's not in his industry or his suburb, he's not interested. Yeah. Uh you are very much like that, aren't you?

George 2:19

Yeah, creature of habit in certain aspects. I'm trying. I'm gonna get out and eventually. You like what you like? I'm gonna get out and well, I'm going to sit, we're going to Sydney tomorrow, so that's a little bit uh little bit different.

Robby 2:29

We would have been back by the time this has. Yeah.

George 2:31

And and it's uh it's for the Builder Summit, which is very exciting. But we love Sydney. We love going to Sydney, we love going into state for events, just period. Sydney's good.

Robby 2:39

I like Sydney. All

The Proposed Victorian Work-From-Home Right

Robby 2:42

right. Well, I figured uh since we're such uh political official. Yeah. That's a word. Um, but since we're such experts on the topic, uh someone sent me this thing the other day, and I actually wasn't aware of this.

George 2:59

Me either, until you sent it to me. Oh, really? No, no idea, dude. None. Okay. I I knew there was talks of it. I didn't know it was happening. Yeah, oh, it's happening. Oh, it's fucking happening. Oh, it is happening. I headbutted my phone when you sent that to me.

Robby 3:13

I I figured I I I'm sad I didn't see you do it. That that's the truth. Um, but let me uh let me give a quick spill for those of you listening.

George 3:25

So this is this is uh for the business owners out there. This is yeah, this is for the business. We're not it we're not into bat for the employees in this in this podcast episode.

Robby 3:33

Well, let's see, let's see where we stand. Just calm down.

George 3:36

Okay, I'm a bit fired up. Yeah.

Robby 3:38

George is George's Because I've already got a stance on this. You saw George's fired up before. Um so the other day I had someone message me and they were they mentioned me and they're like, Oh, hey, have you seen this? And they send me uh well, they actually mentioned what it was, and what it was is the the new law that's I believe been approved. Uh for it's called the work from home law. Right? Sorry, it's not called the work from home law, but I'm gonna call it that. And it's all about uh employees having the right to work from home. The right to work from home unquestioned. Unquestioned, do not two days a week if they can do their job from home. That's my understanding.

George 4:19

Yeah.

Robby 4:20

Okay, so from this is this is a uh a brief written by Claude. From September 1, 2026, Victorian workers who can work from home and have a legal so Victorian workers who can work from home have a legal right to do so for two days a week. It's been written into the Equal Opportunity Act, meaning refusing a work from home request could be treated as discrimination. Disputes will go to V E O H R C, whatever that is, and VCAT. Then VCAT, sorry. This is in play from September 1st, 2026. I thought it was next year. No, then it says businesses with under 15 employees don't have to comply until July 1st, 2027. The big catch. Oh, sorry, the reason for that is supposedly they want to give you enough time to get your HR policies in place.

George 5:22

It's giving me enough time to exploit the fucking rule at the moment, that's for sure.

Robby 5:27

What are your thoughts? I know, but let's

Fairness And Productivity Concerns

Robby 5:30

start from this thing. Like, well, you know what?

George 5:33

Where do you stand on work from home? It's I I'm a big no, and I know you'll probably end up convincing me otherwise by the end of this podcast. Yeah, but I'm still uh right now I'm a no. Go fuck yourself, fuck you, fuck her for putting it in. What's her name? Well, first of all, I don't like that we have to do it. That's the first thing. Uh, I 100% agree. I don't like that aspect. Probably more than that if I want to do it, let me do it. You shouldn't force me to let her do it. That's right. And the fact that we can get in trouble for saying no, that fucks me right off. I just want to I want to lose my shit at her. Anyway, and when I say her, I mean the premier of Victoria, whose name shall not be spoken. Um words. Uh so yeah, I'm an I'm a no for it.

Robby 6:17

Okay, but can so let's can you explain your position? But the put the fact that we have to, don't have to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

George 6:23

Let's leave that for a second. Let's leave that for a second. So, first of all, first of all, like they're saying it's a dis it's you're discriminating. Aren't they discriminating too? Put the law aside for a second. But I'm just saying, I'm just saying, I need to bring it up. Because it's even if I did, if not, is it fair that some employees can work from home and others cannot? What do you mean? Well, I'm in construction. Yeah. My supervisor cannot supervise from home. Yeah, so what? Well, he doesn't get the same opportunities that the office people get.

Robby 6:52

Yeah, but that's like saying, that's like saying, oh, he doesn't have an aircon on site, so turn off the aircons in the office. I know, but I don't know. I don't know about that. It's the exact same thing, is it? Yeah, because you're saying, like, hey, oh, if they don't get this opportunity, why do we get it? It's like, okay, hey, they don't get to sit down.

George 7:06

Well, they get the industry allowance, I suppose, built into their wage.

Robby 7:09

But they don't get to sit down at a desk under air con. So you go take your computer outside and stand up. Fair.

George 7:14

Sounds fair. Let's do it. Let's get it done. Sorry, office people. Do you get what I'm saying? I do, but again.

Robby 7:19

It's the equivalent thing. It's like saying, well, just because they can't doesn't mean I shouldn't.

George 7:23

Yeah, okay.

Robby 7:24

Do you know what I mean?

George 7:24

Yes, yes, yes. All right. Um I still believe, and it's probably a belief of mine more than anyone else's, that you're not as efficient at home. I take that from my own experience and knowing what I would be like today. I went home. I live walking distance from the office, but I went home and I had lunch. I sat down because I was having lunch to watch the TV. And then I was like, you know what? Make a coffee. So I had a coffee at home, kept watching TV, watch a little bit more. I'm like, all right, watching. I just snuffing YouTube. YouTube. Just have something. Just watch. Yeah, it was just a lot of fun. I love having something to play while meeting. Yeah, yeah. So I sitting there, yeah, absolutely. So I was sitting there watching TV. And then it was funny because I thought about this podcast. And I could probably say this. I was in no rush to get back to the office, you know. And I feel that the same thing would happen at work, at home as well, unsupervised or not working in that place, is that you're more likely to be distracted from things at home. You're more likely to uh take advantage of the fact that you are at home, maybe consciously, maybe not, whatever it is. I still I feel that you wouldn't be as efficient being in a place of home as opposed as opposed to being in a place of work. I think that's my that's my beef with it. The main thing. If I had to boil it down to that one thing, I think that's what it is. It's not a trust thing because I do it's definitely a trust thing. Oh, well, sorry. No, no, no. But I also think it's a it's a habit thing too, and the distraction and the ability, the thing is there. I don't think people do it like, hey, I'm gonna get this guy, fuck him. And I'm sure there's people out there that do that. 100%. You know what I mean?

Robby 9:00

There's also that will do it in the office.

George 9:02

Yeah, uh yes, it could very well be, absolutely. And how do you tell unless you're standing over them or auditing their work and whatnot?

Manage Output Instead Of Time

Robby 9:09

But that's the thing, George. See, this is what I think people get most wrong. Um, you can set up parameters to know what's being done. Yeah. You have to set up a a tighter business.

George 9:22

Yes, I think that would be the case. Say this law does come through because it's very possible. It's very possible. This is not uh no, no, no, but maybe if she gets re-elect if there's another uh election, someone could come in and say we're gonna scrap this. But but you know what? The vast majority of voters, I think, wouldn't be against this. Why? Do you know what the reason I say why is because the vast majority of people are employees, not employers. Yeah, yeah. So I think the vast majority of people here would be like, no, no, we're working from home. I'm gonna keep that one.

Robby 9:54

Victoria is especially 100%, you know, room for the little guy.

George 10:00

Oh, always. Yeah. Always, always, always.

Robby 10:03

Like 100%. Yeah. They don't care about the corporations, they don't care about the business owners. They don't. That's the truth. Yeah, it's absolutely. And and I say this as someone who's pro work from home. Yeah, we do. We've got it now. We've got your hybrid policy. Yeah, your guys's.

George 10:19

Two days a week from home. Yeah, so nothing's really nothing at all is gonna change for you. Now I'm forced. Now you're forced. That's the only thing. Yeah, which like fuck off. Yeah, which is kind of like annoys me a lot. Yeah, it's kind of like telling me how to run my business now on top of all the other fucking shit you put on top of us that we've got to comply with. But that's uh that's a thing there for sure.

Robby 10:44

I I think it's um yeah, uh the issue is with the the force element, it's not with the um it's not with the other side. But like, dude, honestly, I I truly believe, and and maybe I'm to be proven wrong, but I truly believe with the right setup and the right team, if a job can be done remotely, I believe it can be done. And I believe there are trade-offs. You're right. There's gonna be distractions. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, but I'll tell you what you get in return. You get the person who doesn't have to worry about half the shit they have to do outside of work because they were able to do their washing during work. So they show up to work as a clearer, happier person. Okay.

George 11:30

Or they were able to-yeah, because like you have to be mindful of it. Hey, yeah, I mean, you've got to look at both sides of the coin.

Robby 11:36

Yeah, but you don't get the best work from the people who you know what I mean? Like you don't get the you your business doesn't get the biggest benefits from the people that have to be monitored minute by minute. Yeah, absolutely. So those people who are like the ones that are most likely because yes, are there people who are gonna take advantage of it without a doubt? So then what do you do in that instance? What? Okay, actually, let's go back a step. You go back a step. You go from time to tasks.

George 11:58

Yeah, okay. So you now have people working from home once, twice a day. Yeah, yeah, twice a week and we employ twice a week.

Robby 12:05

We employ people overseas as well.

George 12:06

So they can I could exclude them for the time being.

Robby 12:08

But it's the same system, dude.

George 12:10

Yeah, I get it. It's the same system, yes. I think it's a culturally a little bit different over there too, as in there they need to perform because it's very quick to go, you're gone, you're gone, you're gone. You've gotten rid of a lot of people too.

Robby 12:27

Yeah, but that's because they couldn't do the job.

George 12:30

Yeah, yeah. Um, but for them, I think there's a little bit more onus on saying, Well, I want to keep this job, I need to perform, I need to do really well. So you think Australian culture? I think culturally, yeah, there's an issue there for sure. But I do, I've got to like again, I'll I'll play devil's advocate. I'm not a fucking total dick and nut. You're not I'm not you're not getting through to me. There is benefits for them, and it that could transport into benefits for you. So you said, okay, let's go do your washing. Is it gonna kill you now if someone goes and does their washing for 10 minutes instead of working? It's not. No, it's not. Especially if they're doing the job and working the way they should be working. Yeah. Got no issues with that. The other benefit which I read in that report, because I did you did send it through and I did read it. Didn't just get I angry and break the. Yeah, not that one, not the summary. Was that by doing so, did you read it? Families. Did you copy and paste it? I read it too no, no, I read it. I didn't actually I didn't I didn't cheat like you did.

Robby 13:25

This is a this is a uh I'm gonna call it a podcast uh question. Show notes. Uh show notes, yeah.

George 13:33

Call it that. The it would save people, they say it's they said it's gonna save people around $115 a week or something like that by working. Yeah, I can't remember. They said like five grand a year, say families five grand a year. Maybe it was two people. It could very well be like yeah, but they might say, well, you're not traveling, you're not spending fuel, you're not paying for parking, you're not maybe not buying lunch per se. You're still buying lunch. No, I don't know.

Robby 14:02

Maybe they when you eat at home from an adult, when you eat at home, it's not it, it is almost almost not that much cheaper.

George 14:11

That's a topic for another day. You're very passionate about that one.

Robby 14:13

That it's true, dude. It's true. You spend time, yeah, yeah.

George 14:17

The time cooking, all that sort of stuff. Yeah, it's working in heaps, dude. Like so much. Yeah. So all that stuff. They say you family should be saving up to $5,000 a year.

Robby 14:28

And yeah, I've got it actually here. It says $5,300 a year.

George 14:31

There you go. So I don't know how they came up with those figures, but obviously they're trying to milk it to say, look how much you could be saving by not going to work each year. So where are they saving that money? I'd say in those areas. For who? For the families, for the people not going to work. Yeah.

Robby 14:50

So but what's what's the government's stake in all of this?

George 14:54

Votes. I know. Ah, so they're just like, I think this is the right thing by the people. Yeah, we're exactly right. Yes. We're trying to, and this is their way of saving some costs and justifying all the other fucking shit that they're charging you. Saying, oh yeah, but we're saving you $5k here. How amazing are we? Vote for us again. Meanwhile, here's your electricity bill that's through the roof.

Robby 15:13

So this law that's been passed sits inside the Equal Opportunity Act. Yeah. So when I read this, I was like, what's the Equal Opportunity Act? And I kind of looked into it. Um so the Equal Opportunity Act is the same framework as discrimination based on gender, race, and disability. Yeah. Right. So the whole thing is like, you can't uh not promote someone or not hire someone because of their own. Based on one of those things. Yeah.

George 15:45

Yeah.

Robby 15:46

Yes. Yeah. Or hire. Everything, everything. You can't do any of those it it's all deemed discrimination. Yeah, which is fine. No issues with that. Does it feel right that working from home belongs in that category?

George 16:01

No, no, it doesn't. Why? Because so what if I I find I look at it and go, no, this I need you here. I need you here. You need to be in the office. And now they have the right to contest that. That's what pisses me off. Yeah, yeah. That's fuck you. No questions asked. Oh, I'm getting upset again. Like, no questions asked. They've got a legal right. Yeah, they legal. Well, I should have a legal right to contest it. And so, no, I need you to fucking be here for these reasons. Every single day you need to process these invoices by hand. You can't do it at home. There's not an electronic method for it. Whatever it is. Or I need you to do this as part of your.

Robby 16:43

American, you can do that. No. I choose how I run a modern market. Yeah, that's right. And I want people to print paper from my printers. Yeah. If you want to work here, unless you're going to come in every time you've got to print and you have to print three times a day.

George 16:55

Yeah.

Robby 16:56

I don't know.

George 16:56

Yeah. I don't know. If you can put those rules into place and then does it stand. But you'd probably have to go to fucking court and prove your case. Time, money, resources, the time and energy that you would put into defending yourself there, may as well give these people the two fucking days off. Or the two days working from home. Yeah, it's not they're not days off. Yeah, that's what you think. No, um, I've spoken to Josh downstairs. He told me what he did on Monday and Friday this week, last week.

Robby 17:22

I've got a pretty, pretty tight, tightly knit business. Yeah.

George 17:25

Okay, okay. Let's let's go back on that. So seeing as you do it in play, you have it in place in multiple areas of your business. What do you do to ensure that your employees are working and not playing PS5?

Tools And Rules That Keep People Accountable

Robby 17:38

Well, first of all, I'm playing PS5, I sign on to PS5 and I check who's online. That's it. Hey, join join the game. That's rule number one. Check who's online. Yeah. Simple. It's common sense, kind of. It's not that hard. Uh no, look, I've got a few uh things that we do. So we run our business on two main platforms. Uh Slack, which is like a communications platform, and Teamwork, which is a project management software. So all projects we do um run on teamwork and all communication runs through Slack. Uh people have a duty to sign on, let us know when they're on, sign off. They have Slack rules they have to follow by. Yep. Like you must be online, you must have uh, you must be active. If you everyone knows, like if you leave your computer, you have to put BRB, like change your status, let me know you're not in front of your computer. Yep. Do you know what I mean? Because if I call you and you don't answer, yeah, I'm gonna be like, well, why don't you? Why did you answer? Yeah, are you just walking away from your computer with it? You know what I mean? So if you're walking, so that's like as simple as going to the toilet. Hey, yeah, you go into the bathroom, put your thing to BRB. Yeah. Just put into BRB. It's not that hard.

George 18:45

You you're walking away from the computer. And what does BRB stand for for those that are playing at home? Uh you're trying to think of something.

Robby 18:54

Bring B right back. Bring bring Robbie back. Um Robbie. Yeah, BRB, be right back. Yeah. For those of you Gen Zm listening to this podcast. Um you reckon Gen Z? BRBs? I think I think they'd be upset that you had to ask that. Nah, look, look. Oh, discriminating. Um, but uh, yeah, so they do that. So they've got to have an active Slack status. Yep. Uh all they have to do a middle of day report and end of day report.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Okay.

Robby 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

I like that.

Robby 19:30

Yeah. And I we have a we have a daily call with everyone. So the same way you'd walk into the office and be like, hey, what's on today? Well, we've got a daily call. Yeah. Every single day.

George 19:39

At what time? Is that the first thing in the morning?

Robby 19:42

Uh no, we do it at 10.30.

George 19:43

Okay.

Robby 19:44

Yeah. Cause it's kind of like come in, get your shit sorted, reply to your emails, do everything you gotta do. Cause then at 10 30, uh, we're gonna have a daily.

George 19:51

So what time's your start time out of curiosity? I start at 7 30. No, no, for the business, like for your employees. Say hey guys, you've started. Staggered starts. Oh, do you?

Robby 19:59

Yeah, staggered starts, staggered finishes. So the starting people start at 8, people start at 8.30.

George 20:04

So what about off? Okay, let's make it simple. Forget OCs. Office, 8. Office, 8.30 a.m. Yeah. Cool. So at 8:30 a.m., you expect to jump on Slack and see active on every employee.

Robby 20:17

Active, and there's we've got a clocking system, so they have to sign in.

George 20:21

Yeah, so what's uh what's the sign in? What system do you use? Projects Slack. Oh, Slack. So they would go on Slack at 835.

Robby 20:27

So yeah, there's a clocking channel and they go and they sign in.

George 20:29

Yeah, cool.

Robby 20:30

So if I go on at 8:35, I should see everyone sign up. Everyone works. Everyone's already signed on.

George 20:35

It's all there, recorded. Yeah. Yeah. Can you sign on from your phone? Yeah. So you could be in bed and just go, shh, shh. Yeah, they could, yeah. Yeah.

Robby 20:45

Cool.

unknown 20:47

Yeah.

Robby 20:47

All right. But so what do they do if they sign on and I call them?

George 20:50

Play the game, play the game. I'll replace you with the I got a line of people who want to work. It's like, hey, what's happening? Good, good. What are you doing with this? You can't people can't think that well.

Robby 20:59

That's why you don't, like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not just that. Okay, cool. Like, do that. Yeah. How many times are you going to get away with that? You're going to get away once, twice, three, four, five. At what point am I going to work out? Hey, you don't fucking do anything for 10. Do you know what I mean? Or, hey, I've given you eight hours of work and you're only doing six every day.

George 21:16

Yeah.

Robby 21:17

You know what I mean? Like that, it's going to come out, George.

George 21:19

Yeah. Like, do you check? Do you think you think no no no? I'm I'm these are the I need to know the parameters. Yeah, yeah. Because I've got to implement them now. I have to get it.

Robby 21:27

Here's the other element. You don't have to get slack. I'm going to go back. You can do there's different people use WhatsApp. Yeah. Um, you can get people who come into the office, and and I've had these conversations with people in the office as well. I'm like, hey, you start at 8 30. Yeah. You don't make your coffee at 8 30. Do you know what I mean? Like we start at 8 8 30. Like I need you to be responding to emails. I don't know. Not rolling in at fucking 8 31, then making a coffee and having a chat. Yeah, it's like, no, no. Yeah. Just like work. 8 30 work starts. You want to have a chat and make a coffee? That's great, come in at eight. You know what I mean? It's not that fucking difficult. The same way though, I I give them the like because that sounds strict. Yeah, it's like fuck, what is this? The army. Like the other side is like, unless we have to, okay, and go home on time.

George 22:14

Yeah.

Robby 22:14

Go home on time. Unless there's something wrong or there's something that's urgently needs to be done. I'm happy for you to leave on time. I don't question you when you sign up because we work 8 30 till 6.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Yeah.

Robby 22:25

I don't question you when you sign out at 6.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah, yeah.

Robby 22:27

That's cool. I'm happy. Go home. I I get you have a life outside of here.

unknown 22:31

Yeah.

Robby 22:32

And I'm happy to support you in that as well. But the same way, that's a hard finish, there's a hard start.

George 22:37

Yeah.

Robby 22:38

I'll you I'll hold your end of the bargain if you hold mine. Isn't that fair?

George 22:42

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's fair.

Robby 22:45

Um yeah, so there's that, there's daily reports, mid middle of day reports, Slack, and then I do um and this is more recent. But I do complete reporting and time tracking.

George 23:01

Yeah, how do you do that?

Robby 23:02

Through teamwork.

George 23:04

Okay.

Robby 23:04

Yeah. And I used to use different tools before, like I used to use harvest, but I can see where everyone has spent their time.

George 23:10

Yeah. How do you see that?

Robby 23:13

It's built into the system. They have to log time to their jobs they're doing. So all their jobs are logged, like the whole business is systemized.

George 23:21

Yeah, that's great. I think it has to be. If now, especially because people are going to be working from home, there has to be processes there, not just hey, go home, respond to your emails, make your phone calls.

Robby 23:30

Every single morning I get an email and I can see what everyone has on for the rest of the week.

George 23:34

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's powerful.

Robby 23:37

Yeah, because then I'm not getting up. This guy's got nothing on on Thursday. Hoi, what do you want on Thursday? Yeah. Cool. Like, let me, I'm gonna assign you some stuff. Here, take some stuff off my plate. Yeah, go do this, go do that, go do that.

George 23:47

You know what I mean? Because I saw you have a lot of things. So do they plan their whole week? Or do you plan? There's a hierarchy structure. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Robby 23:54

So some people plan for other people. I plan for some people. I do less. I try to involve myself less.

George 24:00

This is good. I think that's exactly what you have to do. If this is going to come into place, which by the sounds of it, it's coming. You can't avoid it. It comes into place first of July for most small business owners. Most small business owners for the bigger ones, yeah, it's happening sooner. 15 plus. Yeah. So let's just let's just assume 1st of July next year. Majority of people listen to this. That's where when the day is going to be. Uh you've got to have these systems in place. Yes. Because if it's just a matter of going, oh, you're working from home now and just check your emails and you know, let me know when you're done. I don't think that'll cut it. I think it'll have to be a proper process in place.

Robby 24:38

There's that element. There's also the other side of it, is also like you will know when someone's not doing the work. Like you will work that out pretty quickly.

George 24:48

Yeah.

Robby 24:48

Do you know what I mean? You you'll notice the results. And it's like, even if they do it and they get away with it, they're not gonna, they can't get away with it for five years.

George 24:56

Yeah, that's right.

Robby 24:58

If you understand your business and you understand what output you should be expecting, they can only get away with it for so long. And then eventually you'll start to be like, hey, something doesn't stack up here.

George 25:08

Yeah.

Robby 25:09

Do you know what I mean? You're claiming to be busy, you're claiming to work 40 hours, and I could probably do your job in half a week. Yeah. Or, you know, a day or whatever it might be.

George 25:20

Um Yeah, and you as I said, you're you bang on with it eventually comes out. It may not be, it may not be immediately, because I've had people pull the wool over my eyes. Not so much pull the wool over my eyes.

Robby 25:30

Someone can be in your office and pull the wool over your eyes. Someone can be like sitting side by side with you and pull the wool over your eyes.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Yeah.

Robby 25:37

Do you know what I mean? That's the reality. They can do that. And if they're gonna do it, it's gonna eventually the same way it would come out if they're doing it remotely, it would come out if they're doing it in the office.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Yeah.

Robby 25:45

Right? Your goal is to weed out people like that.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Yeah.

Robby 25:52

Do you know what I mean? To weed them out. And like the way I see it, I could guarantee you now, if you wouldn't spoke to anyone on our team, that'd all say, Yeah, man, look, I I I like working here. Like, do you know what I mean? I I enjoy working with Robbie, he teaches us, he's quite like he's fair. Um, you know, we give everyone like dude. You know what's one of the easiest things you can do in your business that people weird, I find this weird, but people love giving their birthday off. Oh, no shit. Yeah, you're just like like I they brought it up, and I was like, sure. Like you're all gonna have extra one day off of you, sure. Yeah, like it's not like you're working at 100% anyway. So on your birthday. Do you know what I mean? So cool, happy birthday. And they're all we miss out on cake in the office. They're all like, oh my god, wow, like that is, you know, thank you so much. And and they're all so happy about it. And I'm like, this was a good exchange. Yeah, very I feel like I got the upper hand weirdly. Um, but yeah, just stuff like that, and then make it so that this is so good that if you you know if you don't pull your weight, you're not gonna be around. So pull your weight, get the work done, show us the the the tasks, not the time. The tasks. I want output on deliverables. You know what I mean? If you're a video editor, I expect this.

George 27:08

Yeah, expect these this many videos.

Robby 27:09

Yeah, this is how many videos I expect. If you're uh, you know, someone on the uh content team, I expect this done. If you're on the SEO team, I expect this done. If you're in the web dev team, I expect this done. Yeah, like this is our expectation. I understand how long things take.

George 27:24

Yeah.

Robby 27:25

You know, and and you see it, dude. Some people are quick, some people are slow. Sometimes people are doing stuff and you work out like, oh, you've seem to you seem to be distracted today.

Home Setup, Boundaries, And Earning Flexibility

Robby 27:38

And that's okay. And I think this is which leads into my next point, which is like I I think the most important thing for people, so if you're if you're a business with 15 plus people, you should action this sooner rather than later. If you are a smaller business, you've got a bit of time up your sleeve. But I think having the right structure is really important. Yeah, you go home, you got wife, two kids. If you sit out in the open, you're never gonna get anything done. If you had an office, you'd probably get a lot done. That's the reality. If you could go and sit in a room, I mean that's the other thing too.

George 28:12

Yeah, you you it's you you almost you you're gonna want. See, I would find I I I live not far from the office. I still prefer to come to the office to work from the perspective of that's my space. I've got a desk, I've got everything here. Whereas at home, it's my laptop on the kitchen table. Yeah, because you don't have a space. Yeah, that's right.

Robby 28:30

Yeah, so you need to if you set up a proper space, you'll probably find that changes. Yeah, and you'll probably find that you don't come in on Fridays anymore.

George 28:36

Yeah, absolutely. Uh you're you're not wrong for myself. Yeah, I think so I would be there. Yeah, yeah.

Robby 28:40

But if you don't have a proper space, it's not a fair comparison because you will you will not get enough done.

George 28:44

No, so then how do you manage that with your team? Is that something that you would then have to pay to put in place? Like would you give them computer screens or office chairs or a desk or something like that? I mean, maybe that's the next level to it.

Robby 28:57

Yeah. So when I I learned this early on when I would uh interview for an overseas role, yeah, uh, I would I'll always ask them what's they're set up. Yeah. I'd be like, what'd you set up? What's your internet? Yeah. Because I don't want this fucking, oh, internet's down, or you know, all of a sudden I find out you're you're slow and I'm like, what are you doing? They're like, I'm working on a laptop. It's like, dude, you need fucking two screens. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I bare minimum standards. Like these are like, if you don't meet these requirements, I can't hire you. I don't say that because I'd end up at the V E O H S R C P.

George 29:31

So do you do that now? So do you have the expectation for them to supply that or will you give it to them?

Robby 29:36

Will you go, cool, I don't give it to a team now, no?

George 29:39

Yeah. Um so is that fair? Well is that part of the is that their obligation to now go and get two computer screens, a desk, an office chair, and have a proper setup? Uh I don't think so. Is that a fair thing for you to ask? No, but I'm just saying, yeah, I think they should have a screen.

Robby 29:55

I think they should have a second screen, definitely. I think that's very important. Um, but I think more importantly, I think they need to have a space where they can work. And if they can't, you want which camera just died?

George 30:11

I'm pretty sure it was the middle one. Anyway, there's no light. As long as it's not my camera. It's the money shot. Gotta check.

Robby 30:20

I can't tell.

George 30:21

It's alright. You'll get the audio, that's for sure.

Robby 30:24

Uh what was I saying? Yeah. You you want a way, like you want to have something you can have set up to say, hey, yeah, you can work from home, but if you're and this is where the law kind of fucks it up. Yeah. Like if you're because when we do it, like when I I would they start off five days a week in the office, then they get one day a week from home, then they get their second day a week from home. You know what I mean? And it's kind of like they have to earn it.

George 30:48

Yeah.

Robby 30:49

And it's also like a thing of like, once you've earned it, hey, I can take this away from you.

George 30:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Easy come, easy go.

Robby 30:54

Yeah, because if you fucking, if you start fucking around or you're not doing work properly, or you're constantly making mistakes, or you're not answering and you go missing, and it's like cool, like you you've shown that you don't deserve this privilege.

George 31:05

Yeah.

Robby 31:06

Because it is. It's a privilege.

George 31:08

Well, not soon it's going to be a right, though. That's the issue. Yeah, fucking oath.

Robby 31:13

Yeah, when they take it away from you, I think that's the problem. Because now it's kind of like, well, you have to let me work from home. It's like I I don't believe you should have to.

George 31:23

I'm sure you could change things around to make it if you really wanted to, that they have to be in the office.

Robby 31:30

Like I'm sure you could. A loophole.

George 31:32

Yeah, they'd have to be something. So no, no, this task requires you to be here.

Robby 31:39

What task? I don't know. I don't know. Picking on my payment from the brother. I don't know. Yeah.

George 31:44

Um Okay, I've got a PA. I want my PA to be at my beck and call. Yeah. So, hey, give me a coffee. Party roll. Go pick up this from that person over there. Go do this, go do that. Or this person have that. So is there an element of it saying no, I need someone there? I mean, that's probably an example that you could say, well, no, no, that's yeah. That would work. Yeah, you could probably argue no, you can say, no, no, I need them to run errands. Yeah, that's right.

Robby 32:19

Part of the role. I need you to run errands, you're gonna have to go pick stuff up for me, etc., when I need you to do so, and for in order for you to do that successfully, you need to be there. You have to be here.

George 32:26

And it'll be at random time, so it won't be every Monday and Tuesday you do that.

Robby 32:30

It's ad hoc.

George 32:31

Yeah. So then could you incorporate something like that for your video editor? I don't know. You could say, I okay, a video editor, you could say, I need you at the drop of a hat to come and film me to create an ad.

Robby 32:44

Yeah, but do you think that's gonna allow you to get the most out of your business? Yeah, I don't know. That's the question.

George 32:50

I actually also think I genuinely believe this. I think the really high performers in a business will like this rule. This one? Yeah. Why? Well, I actually don't think I'll take it up.

unknown 33:09

Why?

George 33:09

I don't know. I I kind of feel like there might be a pit of a few people out there that are going, no, no, we'll come to the office every single day.

Robby 33:16

Yeah, but like I don't think that's why why like explain yourself?

George 33:20

Well, I think it's a competitive edge. And this might be like that old school business owner, builder person in me now. But it's I would look at it. But I I I would look at that okay, if I had a downturn in the space now, and I've got someone that's in the office every single day, and I see the effort, I see what they're doing.

Robby 33:41

Yeah, but you're confusing getting you're changing you're it's not task focused, you're equating getting things done by being here, by being here, yeah, and they're not the same thing, yeah. Okay, let me let me give you yeah, I'll give you a really good example. Yes, yes. You have employee A. Okay. Have you always favored your CAs over your site managers? No, boom, got you. Yeah, yeah. Right? Because they're not why, but actually, yes. Yes, every single time. Um, no, but like why? That's a perfect example, right? It's like because you know that stuff's happening on site and you have a way of measuring that in your business. Yeah.

George 34:16

So for Yeah, I mean, that's their home, isn't it?

Robby 34:19

The site. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like they're working, they're working, take away home. Take the word home out of it. It's like they're working remotely.

George 34:27

They're working on site, yeah, wherever. Remotely, yeah. They're not in the office.

Robby 34:30

Yeah, they're working remotely.

George 34:32

Yeah, so then in that instance, you definitely have to have the checks in place. Yeah, sure. Because I can go on site now and I'll be like, why the fuck's that not done? Why isn't have you spoken to this person? Have you spoken to that person? Where's this? How come this is like that? Why is that mistake still there? And then if they don't have the answers, I'm well, what the fuck have you been doing all week? All right, I've just been in the side office playing video games. Yeah. So it's like, what have you done?

Robby 34:52

Yeah. And it's like they could be doing that though. Yeah.

George 34:54

Yeah. Because I could I wouldn't know until I start seeing the drop in there.

Robby 34:58

That's when and and that wouldn't that not show over time? And I'm sure you've had experiences where it they kind of hit it for a while.

George 35:04

Oh, and then eventually one of the last employees I got rid of a while ago, that was the exact scenario where it was things were happening that I didn't actually notice until something big happened, and then I noticed all the other things. And I'm like, hey, where are you? What's this? How come here? Oh, I'm just doing this. It's not how it works. I need you here, I need you doing this, I need you doing that. So, yes, it that's what I and when you said it does come up, it does come up. It does come up, dude.

Robby 35:32

Yeah, it does come up. Your your your goal as a business owner is to make sure that because like here's the thing this is something I struggled with personally. It was like let's say when you start a business, you're right there, like you're on the floor. You know what I mean? Like for yourself, you would have been on site heavily involved in, I'm assuming, no? Is that no, no, no, you weren't involved in the site pro like in the projects from being on site perspective? It as in heavily involved in the project overall, like yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, whereas now you kind of get less involved, yeah, and then there's that element of you have to trust the person doing the job and you have to. Because you can't if you grow the business, all of a sudden you can't be across every single project.

George 36:14

100%. Like I I I try and not be I I try and make it that that's not my business. Yeah, but then the I have to because if I don't, I've just like in micromanage, just shit gets out of control, I think. Yeah, or you start to think like I could do this better.

Robby 36:29

Yeah, why do I need him? Yeah, um, and then the thing becomes like, cool, how do I spot check? How do I have regular check-ins or a way of measuring that

Culture, Trust, And Why COVID Changed It

Robby 36:40

allows me to know this work's getting done? For for people in the construction space, I think the biggest thing they're gonna see is two main roles. Uh like an admin person or an estimator.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

Yeah.

Robby 36:51

And they're gonna be the two where it's like, cool, I don't need to. I sit at a desk all fucking day. Yeah, I don't need to be sitting here. And I'm gonna and like I don't know. I I think people are gonna want to take it up. And it's gonna become a thing of like it'll become a thing of like you won't even be allowed to turn around and say to people, hey, this is full-time in the office. Won't you? As in, like, wouldn't that be the law?

SPEAKER_03 37:24

Yeah.

Robby 37:25

Well effectively it is, yeah, because it'd be the same thing as saying, like, hey, we don't hire women. Like, you can't say that. You can't say that you won't be able to say that this is a full-time in-the-office role.

George 37:37

Yeah.

Robby 37:37

If it's not required.

George 37:39

Because at the moment it's if they ask.

Robby 37:43

Yeah, I don't so they have the right to right. At the moment, it says Victoria's workers who can work from home have a legal right to two days a week. It's been written into the equal opportunity rack, meaning refusing a work-from-home request could be treated as discrimination. So if you choose the more you read it, the more it upsets me.

George 38:04

But just hate they say that yeah, it's the they have the right. Like it's you have to do it. That's I think the main thing that pisses me off. But you know, the analogy you gave with the site guys and the office guys is very good.

Robby 38:17

Yeah, but like, yeah, I I don't like that they that it's forced. I don't like that they've twisted your arm and said, no, you have to do this. And it's like, it's kind of like you took away my my leverage. Yeah, you took away my incentive that I could use for my team. Now it's like, well, I have to do this. Yeah, exactly. It's like saying, hey, you have to pay your uh team bonuses. It's like, well, why? Yeah. This is my choice. Yeah. Um, yeah, and I disagree with that. As a as someone who is pro-work from home, given you have the right workspace, uh, I disagree with the law. Okay. In general.

George 38:53

What do you think about uh I also like the idea of not working at home all day. So your home and like your home and your workspace being separate. Yeah. So from the perspective like if you're home all day working, it's like you don't and then you're just home after you work. It's like you've never left that space.

Robby 39:13

Yeah, yeah. I've done dude, I've I've had days where my front door's never opened.

George 39:17

Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, because you lived in a an apartment as well. So it's like your work and your home, it's like it never changes. It's the same place, it's the same thing.

Robby 39:27

Yeah, I I think as long as it ha doesn't you don't you're not doing that for six weeks.

George 39:31

Yeah, it's okay. Straight. Yeah. Yeah, okay.

Robby 39:33

You know what I mean? Like so to have like have a day or two like that, it's not that bad. Okay. Um, but to if you were doing like week after week after week and you never left, I can see how that and and that's probably a case-by-case thing, but I agree with you. Like there was so when I when I first started my business, I was working from home. I just I didn't have an office. It's like cool, like I was out of spare room and I was working out of building, yeah. Yeah. And uh I reckon six months in, I got a desk and that was great. Cause I was like, fuck, I can leave. I had no I had no line between when work to end, when work would end. So the fact that I I could kind of like, okay, cool, I'm leaving the office now. I'm gonna go home and the laptop most likely won't come out. That was that was cool. I enjoyed that. It was like it was like a line in the sand for me that I hadn't had for a significant amount of time. Yep. Um, but yeah, I think I think if you had a really good setup at home and you were able to like smash some work out, because then what what happens is you can smash work out between like, hey, I've got three hours. I'm not gonna watch a movie, I'm gonna get some shit done. Yeah, yeah. And then you get shit done, you're like, dude, you feel fucking great. Maybe I'm addicted to work, I don't know. You feel fucking great.

George 40:52

Do you like coming to the office now? Yeah, I dude. I'm here almost every day. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you have the ability to work from home too.

Robby 40:58

Yeah, I also I think setting up your environment is important, like the way you set up your office space, uh, regardless of whether it's home or work. Um, I think that that matters really well. I've also the way I've structured my life, like my gym's around the corner. Um so for me to go to the gym, I can round a call from the office anyway. So I can kind of do gym work office, blah blah blah. Um yeah, I've been I've been coming here pretty much every day.

unknown 41:29

Good.

Robby 41:29

I haven't worked from home in a while.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Yeah. Noticed.

Robby 41:34

Yeah. It's gonna change. By law, I request this. I'm gonna request it from no one can refuse it. Um, no, no. The reason why though is also because uh I haven't had a proper space for a while. Yeah.

George 41:48

Um yeah, that's my biggest bug, bear. You need you need to. Because I've literally been on the kitchen bench, like where you have breakfast. And I've had I've had my laptop, I've got a second screen there, my iPad, I plug them in, I've got both screens. Because then there's people yelling, yeah. She's like, she goes, Move your fucking shit. I say, Hey, I'm working. That food you're eating, thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, she punches me, throws a knife at me, and then get shit on my computer. And I'm like, come on, man.

Robby 42:12

Yeah, what do you do? And then, like, and then she'll ask you stuff that's not relevant. No, you're like, hey, I'm trying to focus.

George 42:18

In the zone.

Robby 42:18

Oh, yeah, I'm in the zone. And then she'll get upset at you for not talking to her, and then you know, yeah, so I think it's massive to have a space.

George 42:26

Massive, massive, massive.

Robby 42:28

You gotta have if you want to get shit done properly, like can you can you scrape by? Yeah, of course. But if you want to get shit done properly, like if you want to work, highly recommend have your own whatever, a little pod, a corner, ideally somewhere where no one's gonna talk to you all the time.

George 42:49

I've got the perfect setup too for it as well at my place. Like I've got a room above my garage, which would be perfect for that. But what are you doing? I just not the top of my priorities. But yes, I will. I will.

Robby 43:03

Um so this disimpacts you know, people who serve computers.

George 43:11

Yeah, it's effectively the the office admin type person that it's going to affect.

Robby 43:16

You gotta be able to sit at a computer and work remotely for you to be able to do this. Yes.

George 43:19

So if you're a cafe owner making lattes, yeah, can't request it from your boss.

Robby 43:23

If you're a chance, hey, can't request it. If you're a chippy, can't request it. Yes. Um What do you think that makes them feel? Those people. Yeah, like being someone who's they might feel a bit robbed. Do you think I don't get it? No, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It'd be interesting. I'd love to know. Like, you know, do you feel like something, yeah, do you feel like you're missing out?

George 43:47

Look, most people that's talking from the building side of things, most people that are on site could never picture themselves sitting at a desk. So to them, that would be torture. Like to them, that would be worse than working on working five days a week.

Robby 44:00

To say that, you know. I can't sit at a computer all day. Yeah, I never sit at a computer all day. All day. Literally all I do. 300 steps a day. Those days are the worst. You look at your thing and seven steps. That's a bit higher than I thought.

George 44:17

Yeah. Yeah, mine is. So that's yeah, you're you're 100% right. Yeah, so I think um I don't think, yeah, it's never gonna happen in that space with uh the blue-collar worker.

Robby 44:29

Yeah. So and and this all happened because of COVID.

George 44:34

Yeah. You know, imagine this, imagine COVID had happened, had had it, had it happened during our parents' generation, like our when they were younger.

Robby 44:47

So there was something like the Spanish flu or something. Yeah, like 15 million people died. Oh wow. Yeah, it was like significant. Yeah, okay.

George 44:57

Yeah, there you go. Don't need to imagine it. Just open up um open up the internet and have a research. But you know, say it happened when our parents were younger, exactly COVID, the same thing. There wasn't that ability for them to go, okay, we'll just work from home. Oh, let's just isolate and stay home.

Robby 45:12

That's what technology allows you to um to get those things done.

George 45:18

Definitely change the world. I've heard things like now, because you're going to be working from home. Wasn't it some sort of a tax loophole that they're going to start charging you for being from working from home or something like that? I heard something along those lines too, that this was a first step into being able to charge people or introduce some other tax into your um yeah, into the whole ecosystem because they're now working from home. I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, I wouldn't either. And so maybe maybe be like, well, oh, you have a spare room. That's what I think it was. I think if you have a spare room and the ability for that room to be, you know, an home office or a spare bedroom or something like that, well, we're gonna tax you because that room's spare. Some shit like that. Yeah, that's which is stupid, but yeah, but how so how preposterous are most of the other taxes that they fucking got out there? And ridiculous, doesn't that make any sense?

Robby 46:11

Yeah, that's the price you pay for um security, I guess.

George 46:19

Isn't it? I started speaking of security, I started listening to that podcast by the way, the World War III one. Oh, dude, how good is it? 20 minutes in, it's sick. Yeah, yeah, like hooked me straight away.

Robby 46:27

If you can, if you can, watch it properly. Like in the sense of don't have it on while you're doing stuff.

George 46:32

Like, I generally listen to it when I walk the dog, so I I am able to concentrate.

Robby 46:37

That one specifically, he talks it like there's stuff where he draws thought he was.

George 46:41

Yeah, I thought because it was a section where I could hear him doing something.

Robby 46:44

And you want to look at what he's drawing.

George 46:46

Yeah, right. Yeah, because I might watch it on YouTube then.

Robby 46:49

It's it's very good. He he's uh he's weirdly good to listen to for a guy with an accent. I didn't think it was that strong. The accent? Yeah, it was the stuff he said was that you don't you don't know what he said. You're like that he's speaking English. Yeah. Um but yeah, weirdly uh good. He's very very well educated. Very well educated. Gives you perspectives on the world that are interesting.

Office Space Savings And Leasing Leverage

George 47:13

So do you think back on to topic? Do you think there's savings for the business? Yeah, like if you need less I think there would be less office space? Yeah, correct. Because now you can instead of all right, so we're putting some desks downstairs, all of a sudden we don't need to do that. Because you could say, all right, Peter, you're working Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Johnny, you're working the uh every other day, you're gonna swap on his desk, he's gonna swap on your desk on each of those days. So you're pretty much desk swapping with everyone, so you no longer need to have 15 desks downstairs. You could halve that to seven, which means okay, now we need a smaller office, not a bigger office. So maybe you could save money there.

Robby 47:58

Yeah, but the the downside to so we we we ask everyone to come in on the same days.

George 48:04

Yeah, correct. Whether you so everyone has Monday off and Friday off, for example? Yeah. Is that how you would do it? Yeah, because like I would do it like that. Wouldn't you stagger it to go, all right? Josh is away on Monday, two, Wednesday, and sign up. So they want to build culture, yeah. They'll still see each other, but yeah, okay.

Robby 48:20

You want them to kind of hang out a little bit, get to see each other. Imagine you only see uh like can you imagine you didn't see your co let's just say someone you don't directly have involvement with. Now, you and I, for you and I it's different because we have involvement for everyone in the business. Yeah, but for some team members, they don't really talk to like Jenny from accounts, yeah. They're like they're and I really speak of it, but like the getting them to see each other is that thing that you want. It's like, okay, you're gonna come in, I'm gonna have you all here on the same day.

George 48:48

So kind of when we have to do stuff in the office, well, everyone I know some of the bigger companies like Nab and Telstra and those sorts of guys.

Robby 48:56

Yeah, they're do hot desks.

George 48:57

Yeah, they had and it was a massive thing. Like they ended up getting rid of whole buildings, like it was a good thing for them. Dude, they had that many people working for them that they go, Well, fuck it. Okay, well, everyone works from home three days a week. Well, why do you why do you need an office? Yeah, that's but that's exactly what they broke the code, didn't they? Yeah, so they go, Well, we need we we you everyone comes into the office twice a week, that's it. Or maybe once a week, whatever it is. They don't care about culture, they care about the bottom line. So everyone's gonna work from home. This is what you're gonna do. They got rid of thousands of employees. They got rid of whole buildings, man. Yeah, that would that would be like a million dollars. Another on fli uh on um um flow and effect. When we were negotiating, when I was looking for this office, I was looking for an office and I found a few. Uh most of the office spaces that I spoke to have been vacant for agents. They've been vacant for a while. I think this one, they were quite lucky here. I think this was this was vacant, and we the next day we applied and we got, I think they're quite lucky. But in saying that, I still negotiated them down because I was like, hey, everyone fucking works from home. Okay. And I said that to them. I said that to the agent. I was like, hey, this is my price. You want me to move in? I'll move in, I'll sign a 10-year lease, whatever it's gonna be. But this is my price. This is where it has to be at. And they're like, oh, yeah, but it's gonna increase that much. Okay, no, back down. It's gotta go to this price. This is where it is, this is the increase, this is what our terms are. We want to do this for no cost, we want to knock down this wall, we're not reinstating it when we leave, all that sort of stuff. As a business owner, you're probably in a better position to negotiate an office now. But who loses out then? The landlord. They may not get the money that they used to because this was in hot demand and everyone wanted this office and they're getting top dollar. I went for a drive down Bay Street in Port Melbourne. Was it today? No, it was yesterday. I was driving down Port Melbourne. There's quite a few vacant shops. You go into any main street in any suburb these days, in most suburbs, you're going to see vacant shops, a lot of them, a lot more than you used to, that's for sure. And um, Chapel Street, same thing. I remember driving down Chapel Street not too long ago, and you see vacant shops everywhere for sale, for lease. People aren't taking those spaces up as much. So there is a bit more of a competitive advantage if you are looking to lease an office, I think. But then again, as I said, the person owning the business is probably losing out there too, uh owning the the building.

Factories, Storage, And Event Space Ideas

Robby 51:19

I still think we should get a factory. I'll go one. I went to a um come come in put some. Someone and saw someone saw a prospect uh and they had a factory set up. And they had like the upstairs area, it was all decked out. Yeah. It's like sick.

George 51:35

Yeah, it's like really cool, man. I was like, Was it in a business park or was it on um its own separate thing? Like its own separate building.

Robby 51:44

Yeah, it was its own separate building.

George 51:46

Yeah.

Robby 51:46

So it had a driveway to the road.

George 51:48

Yep. Yeah.

Robby 51:49

Like its own fence. Yep.

George 51:50

Yeah. Yeah. So I would do that. Yeah. I would do that, no worries. It's more, I don't want to be in a business park with next to a plumber, a F-45 gym, and so on and so forth. I think from a brand perspective, just for myself, not speaking about you or anyone, but I think from myself, brand perspective, I don't think that works as great for the brand. I'd want to be in a prominent, I'd want to be in my own building with my own warehouse on my own street, my own entry, like its own thing. Yeah. But I would, I think it's great if you can incorporate. And I did look at that myself when I was looking to get a lot of.

Robby 52:22

I think there's some benefits to that.

George 52:24

Yeah, well, I've got a I've got a factory now, but it's in another suburb, which is a good 30-minute drive from here. Now, we only use it for storage, so we don't actually have any other operations out of there. There's literally not even an office, it's just a warehouse. We put our equipment, we might buy some tiles and have them on file and go, cool, we'll just leave these tiles here until we need them, whatever it might be. Yeah, just materials, just material miscellaneous materials, tools, trailers, shit like that. So yeah, we definitely make use of it. And if we had that here in the office, it makes life a little bit easier. Absolutely.

Robby 52:58

Yeah, I think um like from the the studio element, like you can have a studio, you can kind of shoot uh like a you know, somewhere to take photos, a property.

George 53:08

Yeah, man, even like all this equipment you've got here, you could just put it in the warehouse somewhere nice and safe. I've got boxes of equipment for when we do events, just store them in there. So yeah, it's definitely a um it'd be definitely a good thing to have.

Robby 53:21

Yeah, or even imagine having like a big enough space where you're like, if I'm gonna do an event and it's like 20 people, I can do here.

George 53:28

Yeah.

Robby 53:28

Like get it, I can do here. Like I've got room for 20. Yeah. I can stake, I can take 20 people in here.

George 53:33

Funny thing is it could end up being something like that too, where you have the event space where you go, hey guys, let's yeah, it's like a no brainer.

Robby 53:39

I think okay, cool. If I want to do a big event, yeah, I can go hire a space. But like for my for my smaller groups that I work, you know, intimately with, um, I can do it here. Like it's yeah, I think that's cool.

George 53:51

Yeah, I mean, just that in itself for me would save me at least fifteen thousand dollars a year.

Robby 53:57

So have I convinced you?

George 53:58

Sorry? Have I convinced you to get people working home? To get a factory, yeah. Uh no, but seriously, that would cost me at least 15 grand. Save me 15 grand a year, at least in venue hire. I'll do it.

Robby 54:11

You don't have to tell me. All right, cool. It would be sick. Get a big we get a pretty big factory. Well, I mean, you get a pretty big factory. This is a sick spot. Yeah. This is a great spot. Yeah, but we can get a pretty good factory. Yeah. Now, you know, everyone's gonna have to work from home. So there's so much room for activities. Uh and that's the other thing, man. You can do activities with space.

George 54:32

Um, no employees, but because all right, so uh thumbs up, thumbs down still.

Getting Ready Before The Deadline Hits

Robby 54:39

Well, I I am pro working from home. I am I I'm not pro this law.

George 54:43

Yeah.

Robby 54:45

I I just don't think we should be forced.

George 54:48

I think I like the way you framed it with the site guys and the office guys, because that makes sense. Oh, I'm not pro, I'm not against people working from home. I just don't have the systems in place at the moment to make sure that they're working from home effectively.

Robby 55:02

Yeah, so and then the thing becomes like you need to have, and I don't know what this is gonna be with this law, but if you have something like a policy in place to say, like, hey man, like if you show that you can't work from home effectively, because this isn't gonna happen to a lot of people then. You know what I mean? It's like someone's gonna request to work from home, you can't say no. It's like, how do you how do you manage that without putting yourself in hot water? How do you manage that and say from both sides? Because you can put yourself in hot water with the employee, or you can put yourself in hot water with as as a company when you're not delivering anymore because all of a sudden everyone's pludging and you know, playing FIFA when they should be doing work. Um Yeah, I think I think it's really important to start to lay out what are those factors that you can start to what are the things that you can start to do now. Because dude, you know, we're we're almost halfway through 2026. Before you know it, that technically Yeah, it's fucking insane, dude. Hey, you want a novel technic? You signed this lease in 2024. You started this podcast in 2023. Yeah, throwing up. Yes, good. Um it is a tactic. Uh you want to try and start to implement some things around these items to make sure that it doesn't just fucking drop on you.

George 56:26

Next thing you know, it's it's July 2027.

Robby 56:30

Yeah, or or you don't have everything in place and you have to do it anyway, and then it's like cool you get screwed. You know what I mean? Yep. You're gonna eat shit.

George 56:41

Look, for me it's not gonna be the next thing I do, but I will have it on the list of things to do.

QR Codes, Automation, And What Changes Next

Robby 56:48

Some thing about Do you think if COVID didn't happen this would have come to fruition? No, not not.

George 56:57

Yeah, no, I'm gonna say no.

Robby 56:59

Okay. I agree. Yeah.

George 57:01

Do you think I think people would still be hesitant to sign QR to scan QR codes if COVID didn't happen? 100%. I still get the oddball every now and then on site going, I'm not scanning that QR code when they're getting inducted. Because they're like, they don't want to give their personal details up. I'm like, dude, do you know how little I give a fuck about you that I want your personal details?

Robby 57:23

I like just if that's not if that's not um, you know. Have you seen those um what are they called when they test your genetics? Your uh ancestry. They do the ancestry.com and all that, yeah. And people are like, oh, you're gonna sell your DNA to the government. And it's like, bro, first of all, I'm paying them. Second job, yeah. Secondly, they were gonna give me money, I'd give them everything. But secondly, uh like I'm not that important. Yeah, that they go like Robbie's, hey, we got him, we got him.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

High five cents, we got Robbie, guys.

Robby 58:02

I'm not that important. I haven't done it. Um, like, but like there's people, you know, the people that freak out about it, or like the people that think that people are constantly trying to poison us. And it's like, dude, it's like they're trying to make mentally try they're trying to make you dumber. And it's like, but if you've had dumb employees, you'll understand that you don't want to be surrounded by dumb people. Yeah, like they need us to cooperate. They don't want us to be retarded. Um, that's my opinion anyway. Uh how do we get on to that? Just retarded people. Oh, yeah, giving up QR codes. Yeah. So uh my question to you about that, the reason why I asked if you think this would happen if co and I agree with you, I don't think we would allow to work from home. But do you think that do you think that there's been some people who have been able to pull it off successfully?

George 58:50

Oh, without a doubt, they're working from home. Yeah. Well, you're doing it well. Yeah, okay.

Robby 58:54

So my follow question to that is an external circum set of circumstances happened allowing us to adapt something that we already do.

George 59:05

Yeah.

Robby 59:05

And it's like, well, you it which begs the question of okay, well, then what are the other things that we do that we don't have to do? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like what are the other like do you have to make your bed? Like what what are the other things that you you we do now on a day-to-day basis? Like, no one ever questioned traveling to work.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

Yeah.

Robby 59:25

Seven years ago, no one ever questioned traveling to work. It was never the question of like, well, I gotta go into the office. Yeah, imagine. Of course you have to.

George 59:33

Imagine someone said that to an employer in 2020. Yeah. Or in 2019. He said, Hey, yeah, I want to work from home twice a week.

Robby 59:40

What? Like that means that makes no sense. It would have been such a wild request. Yeah. You would have said, No, this guy's weird. He asked me if he can work with her. You're working around all the time. Yeah. Just not for me. Just don't come back. Yeah. Um and then, but set of external circumstances changed how we see this thing and proved that we were doing something that we didn't quite have to. It's like, what else? Where else is that showing up in your life?

George 1:00:10

It's a good way to think. It's a good way to just have that curious thought.

Robby 1:00:14

Do you do anything that you still do from COVID now?

George 1:00:19

Uh that I've picked up since COVID. Yeah. You mean stuff like pressing buttons and shit like that?

Robby 1:00:24

Yeah, like for like people would press buttons with their knuckles.

George 1:00:27

Yeah, with their elbows and shit like that, or with a key. Yeah, from time to time I'll press a button with a key. You know, like in the lift. So if I'm holding my key, I just go, or my phone, for example, hit the corner of the thing.

unknown 1:00:38

Yeah.

Robby 1:00:38

Sometimes but you wouldn't not touch it with your finger. Whereas during COVID, you would not touch it with your finger. Yeah, yeah. You'd be like, whoa, but I'm not doing that. Yeah, you've seen everyone touching his shit with their feet. Yeah, yeah.

George 1:00:49

People were like, wouldn't touch stuff, wouldn't you still do anything from not that I can think of specifically when it comes to that? No, I can't think of anything.

Robby 1:01:03

I I still wipe trolleys.

George 1:01:04

Oh yeah. See, I wouldn't do that.

Robby 1:01:06

Yeah, no, like if I grab a trolley, like out of Kohl's, I will wipe it. If the wipes are there, I will wipe the the handles. Yeah. I just think it's like it makes sense. Yeah, it does.

George 1:01:17

I don't know who's doing it. It does. Yeah, but there's so many things like that too. Even doors, shit like that.

Robby 1:01:23

Yeah, like toilet doors and stuff. Yeah. Um, yeah. Definitely more conscious of that. But yeah, it just, it just it begs that question of like, okay, what would happen what circumstances would have to happen where I change behavior where I could probably change the behavior and be better for it?

George 1:01:41

From now. Yeah. And imagine you're having that you're ahead of that. Yeah. And maybe you're the one that came up with the QR codes everywhere. Do you know what I mean? What's that? It could be a multi-million dollar idea. Your change in belief. Yeah. Or your change in activity.

Robby 1:01:54

Would the would the adoption of QR codes happened had happened as easily? Yeah. Probably wouldn't have. People would have probably.

George 1:02:00

People like there was still pumping. Like even, do you know what's great? Like, even if you go to a cafe and instead of speaking to a waiter or something and say, hey, can I want to I want to order chips and this and that and this and latte and all that? You scan the QR code, you pick what you want, it gets delivered. That's fantastic. Yeah, I think that's really good. It's great from a business point of view because now they don't have to employ as much, well, they don't have to employ people to come there and go, hey, what's your order? And no mistakes. Hey, you fucking ordered the the fat chips. Like you press the button. I didn't press it. Dude, I went to a- Oh, I meant to press a salad. Oh, my mistake. No, come on, mate. You're fat. You want a chips. You want a chips. Let's not jag around.

Robby 1:02:33

Chips are great.

George 1:02:33

They're so good.

Robby 1:02:34

Uh I went to a restaurant a couple weeks ago. Uh in the city. It's called I'm gonna fuck up the name, but I'm gonna attempt it. I think it's called Dodie Pie Dang or something like that. It's like an Asian fusion type thing. Do you know what?

George 1:02:50

No. Oh, of course not. Is it in Alba Fak?

Robby 1:02:52

Nah, it's in the city.

George 1:02:53

I have no idea.

Robby 1:02:54

We'll go.

George 1:02:55

Yeah, okay, good. Lock it in.

Robby 1:02:56

Your food comes to you with a robot. Oh, cool. Yeah, like clean.

George 1:03:00

Where was that? And it comes and stops at you. It was in Parramatta. I went to some restaurant or some like Asian restaurant and it came on a re on a thing.

Robby 1:03:07

Yeah, it's like and it comes like on its wheels or whatever. And it's got eyeballs. And it's like looking around everyone, and you're like, what the? And then it comes, stops at you, and you look and you're like, oh yeah, that's us. Like you grab your stuff and it goes.

George 1:03:17

Yeah.

Robby 1:03:17

You're like, okay, cool. Like I thought that was that was quite cool. And you order through through the app.

George 1:03:23

You think about that too, so many more less, there'd be a lot a lot less people running, like doing a runner from eating food. We have to pay first. You have to pay up front because food comes out. So as opposed to, yeah, I'll have this, this, this, this, and then you just get up and leave and don't

Accidental Shoplifting And Old School Milk Bars

George 1:03:40

pay. So it would it would eliminate that. So that's a good thing for business owners. You ever done a runner from a restaurant? Can I just say something? Do you know what I did the other day at Coles? When I say the other day, I mean last week. Last week? Anyway, whenever it was. I went, had a whole bunch of shopping, and like because I'm a man, I'm not going to get a bag or a trolley or anything. I'm just going to hold the shit. All right. So as I'm getting stuff off the shelves, whatever I'm buying, I grabbed some streps, streps because my throat was a bit sore. So I put in my pocket.

unknown 1:04:06

All right.

George 1:04:07

And then I'm walking around, walking around, put all my scan on my stuff, and then I walk out. All right. I paid for all the stuff that I was holding, walked out. And then I went to put get my keys out of my pocket and I feel the strepsels there. Didn't pay for those. Do you know what I did? Went back and paid for them. You did? I felt like such a good guy. I don't know. I felt like such a great guy. I felt like the best human being on the planet. Really? Yeah, that's honest George. You call me from now on. I went back and I go, I saw the lady there, said, Hey, I forgot to pay for these. She just looks at me and goes, just don't call the cops. She's like, it's alright. She goes, I'll let you off this time. Good.

Robby 1:04:46

And then you had to pay? No, I went back to pay.

George 1:04:48

Yeah, yeah. I went back. I could have walked out. I I was out. I was on Bay Street. I was not in Kohl's.

Robby 1:04:54

I would have.

George 1:04:55

I was actually the yeah.

Robby 1:04:56

You would have run. I would have dropped everything else and ran. I would have dropped all the shit I paid for and started sprinting. Um look, credit to if it was fuck coals.

George 1:05:08

Yeah, I would have done it more so for a small business.

Robby 1:05:10

Yeah, if it was like a a a little, you know, a milk bar or something. You're like, oh I can't like this.

George 1:05:17

Kids got anything. Yeah, it's it. Hey, milk bars. Do you say when's the last time you saw a milk bar?

unknown 1:05:23

Fuck it.

George 1:05:24

I drove past a couple. I drove past one the other day. There's one in Portnel that I know of on Graham Street, but there was another one that drove past them. Like an old school milk bar.

Robby 1:05:34

As an adult, do they not fucking? I don't know if it's like because I'm older or they've just gotten sketchier. But you always look at every milk bar now and think. I don't know. I don't know if I'd eat the shit. There's a milk off. Yeah. Like, I don't know if I'd eat the shit in here, bro. Yeah.

George 1:05:48

I think if it's a local, like one that's always been there, like an institution, I think, yeah, people people would go there to shop for sure.

Robby 1:05:54

You reckon?

George 1:05:56

My grandparents had milk bar when they were well um when I was.

Robby 1:06:00

Yeah. How long have they not been working?

George 1:06:02

Oh, a long time, yeah.

Robby 1:06:02

Yeah. Well, it's changed a lot in 20 years.

George 1:06:06

I'll go there and buy off milk. I'll do it. Soft spot for him.

Robby 1:06:09

I don't know. I used to go to um a milk bar when I was 15 and buy ciggy's. Yeah, that's me.

George 1:06:20

He knew. He knew I was not like you had a beard at 12. That's not wrong. Yeah, but he knew, dude. You know, when he knows. Yeah, of course. Of course. He didn't care. Was he Asian? Was he Greek? He was Lebanon. Lebanese, there you go. Yeah.

Robby 1:06:30

He was trying to make a dollar. I was trying to make a Siggy. Well, friends. That's it. He knew, but hands down. 100%.

George 1:06:37

He would have sold his high school kids were his best customers. They didn't give a shit. Your money is as good as anyone else's.

Robby 1:06:45

I remember when I was turned 18. I couldn't wait to go to Woolies. To go buy some Siggy's woolies. That's so funny. This is sick. Did they ask you for ID? Uh many times. Many times. Yeah. Now, I get pumped now if they said they're ID, you said, sir. No, come on. Must be having a good day.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:03

Yeah. Um I haven't been asked for ID for a long time.

Robby 1:07:09

Well, you know when you don't have to get asked for ID?

George 1:07:12

When? When you're working from home. No one will talk to you at all. You probably turn your phone off.

unknown 1:07:18

Me?

George 1:07:18

Just what if you just be right back eight hours?

Robby 1:07:23

You could do that. I don't know how far uh how far you'd get.

George 1:07:28

Um look look, you have sold me on the idea, but I completely agree with you as far as it's uh it's their right and it's the law now. That's just feels like they're chipping away at us.

Robby 1:07:44

Do you think there's a downside? Do you think there's a downside to working from home for the employee? Do you think the employer should get the responsibility like could should have the right to be like, hey, you can't come in five days a week? No, no, no. You have to work from home. Does the employer have that right?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:06

Yeah.

Robby 1:08:07

Do they have it? I don't think they do.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:09

No.

Robby 1:08:09

So I have to be able to accommodate them, but I can't ask them to come in. Yeah. Nah. Surely I surely you can have the right to be like this is maximum three days in the office. Yeah. It's all I can accommodate. I'll take you to work.

George 1:08:22

Well, surely, surely I'll take you to work today. But now, as I said, if you've only got X amount of desks and you have to swap, like say you're not caring about the culture side of things, then yeah, you'd say, listen, you have to work three days a week or two days a week from home. That's part of this role. Because your desk isn't your desk, it's yours and Peter's and Jenny's desk. And everyone's going to use that. Yeah, you don't have your own shit. I just like a desk. Come to work every day then. Stop complaining. Me? If you want your own desk, you've got it. I've got my own desk. I've got a desk at home, yeah. I do? Yeah. That's cool.

Robby 1:08:58

I got a proper setup. That's cool.

unknown 1:09:01

Yeah.

George 1:09:01

I like my computer screen that I've got. I want to get another one of those. Yeah, I do. I want to get another one of those. If I was to go and work from home, I'd get one of those. It's one of the big what are they? 40. No, they're bigger. 49 inch? Yeah. Yeah. If it's just one big curved screen. Yeah, the mass. I almost want to go get another one, put it on top. Just go all out.

Robby 1:09:20

You know, there's only a certain amount of um uh information you can take in. Yeah, I I've tried having more. Have you ever had those? And you almost have a have a seizure.

George 1:09:31

I was looking at getting one of those. I've seen them on ads on socials, where it's the it it slides slides onto the back of your app, yeah, your laptop, and you've got the three screens. I don't know if it's any good or if it's a piece of shit Timo thing, Timu or whatever it's called.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:45

Did you board anything from Timu before?

George 1:09:47

Teemu, no.

Robby 1:09:48

Yeah, me either. Should we buy something off this? I've heard great things. Oh yeah?

George 1:09:54

I've heard you buy one thing and then you're fucked. Like they will bombard you with every skin and everywhere. And you've signed up for life and you get subscriptions you didn't even know that existed.

Robby 1:10:04

Yeah, but I've also heard they uh it's very hit and miss. Like you can get something and say, there, this is sick. And then you can also get something and say, there, this is I thought it was legit, but it's like the toy version or something like that. Like, um, yeah, so shoot your shot.

Subscribe, Share, And Builder Summit Plug

George 1:10:22

That's it. Well, thank you very much for tuning in once again, guys. Episode 137, down, done, and dusted.

Robby 1:10:29

You reckon we could do this podcast from home?

George 1:10:32

Well, it's my right in a few years' time in at the end of next year, mate. So I'm gonna put in a request. And you're gonna say yes. That's all right. You have to. You have to put in my request to work from home and you're gonna say, yeah. As long as you sign on, and you're I'll have to get the um, what's it called? Do it by zoom.

Robby 1:10:49

We would get uh we would get a lot more guests if we were willing to to do that. Like you could get people overseas, people in different states. Yeah, yep, yep, yep. But uh, I feel like it would compromise the quality.

George 1:11:00

I think so too. I think you're getting a much better experience when the person is here talking over a table as opposed to you know through a computer screen. I think the connection's a lot better. I've done like think about any Zoom meeting you've ever been in. The connection with the person in the room in person is so much better.

Robby 1:11:18

It's like a webinar versus an in-person event. Yeah. Yeah, it's not the same.

George 1:11:22

Feels good, like even having the sp the headphones on, the speaker here, all that sort of stuff. All that sort of stuff.

Robby 1:11:28

Agreed.

George 1:11:29

You know, the other day I asked you when you hear yourself on video, when people are most people when they hear themselves on camera on watching a video, they're like, Oh, I sound weird. That's not what my voice sounds like. And I came to the realization that I no longer hear that. I don't hear myself sounding weird anymore because I've been on camera so much, because I've heard my own voice so much, not just through my head, but through a screen. External source. That now I don't look at that and go, oh, well, that voice sounds weird. That to me is my voice. And I think this podcast, because when we're talking, we actually have it coming through the headphones. I think that's actually what has made me feel like that. It's more the podcast as opposed to watching myself on a screen.

Robby 1:12:14

Yeah, potentially. You hear you've got your.

George 1:12:16

Well, this is going straight into my head now, as opposed to when it didn't. Podcasts, huh? What a life. What a life.

Robby 1:12:25

All right, guys, thanks for tuning in. Episode 137, done and dusted. Uh, if you haven't subscribed, please make sure to do so.

George 1:12:33

Do it, or we will find you. And we will grab your phone. We will guess the pin. Do you reckon there's people out there that don't have a pin on their phone? Surely not. I would be I would be. Imagine you grab someone's phone and then you go to unlock it and it's just like it just unlocks. Nah, hey, what's it?

Robby 1:12:51

I don't think so, dude. It's like, do you think there's anyone who has a computer that doesn't have a password on it? Surely not. I don't know. Probably. Is that even an option? Like, can you have no passcode on your phone?

George 1:12:59

I don't know. Yeah, I reckon you could. I reckon you could.

Robby 1:13:03

It's an option.

George 1:13:04

I reckon it is. That's wild. That's wild. What else is wild is when you subscribe to this podcast and share it with all your friends and family, because many of you listen, but many of you are not subscribed. So jump on the bandwagon, get involved, reach out to us, and we will or will not respond.

Robby 1:13:22

Yeah, and if you're in Melbourne and you're listening to this on Monday morning, there's an event on tomorrow. You might have really limited time to register.

George 1:13:33

Yeah, it will close.

Robby 1:13:36

So limited. I can't explain how limited. Like you, if you if you've tuned in Monday late here, you've missed the boat. That's it. Uh, if you've tuned in maybe, I don't know, 12 hours late, you might have missed the boat. But if you're listening to this Monday morning first thing, uh the Builder Summit in Melbourne is on tomorrow.

George 1:13:51

We've just done Sydney.

Robby 1:13:53

I don't know if there's gonna be any seats left by the time you hear this, but if there is, it'll be available on the link in the description.

George 1:13:59

I reckon it's gonna be so good that the people that have attended the Builder Summit in Sydney are gonna then buy another ticket to attend Melbourne. So it's probably sold out, guys. Don't bother. Don't bother going to the landing page. Don't bother hitting our socials and looking at links. It's already sold out. Nah, do it. All right. All right, do it. Just thanks a lot, guys. Speak to you next time. Thanks, everyone.