Addiction Recovery
The Addiction Recovery Podcast is the ultimate destination for individuals battling addiction or supporting loved ones in their journey towards recovery. With a focus on providing informative, educational, and persuasive content, our podcast aims to engage and guide listeners towards healing and transformation.
Addiction Recovery
48: The Pre-Lapse Before the Re-Lapse
Can success in recovery lead to complacency? In this episode, we explore the critical "pre-lapse" stage that often precedes relapse. Sharing my own experience of relapsing after 12 years of sobriety, I highlight the importance of staying engaged in recovery practices and maintaining integrity. We discuss how small daily actions can reinforce long-term goals and how spirituality—rooted in a belief in a higher power, not tied to any deity—can support sobriety.
We share insights on building a community of accountability and solution-focused support. This episode emphasizes the value of trust, consistency, and setting personal boundaries, inviting you to engage, share feedback, and be part of a supportive network. Let’s take life one day at a time, fostering connection and strength on the path to recovery.
Helpful Links:
Learn more about Restore Detox Centers
Filling the Void book by Steven T. Ginsburg
Overcoming the Fear and Lies of Addiction e-book
How to Love and Set Boundaries Without Enabling Addiction e-book
Call Us for Addiction Recovery: 1-800-982-5530
DISCLAIMER:
Welcome to the Addiction Recovery podcast, brought to you by Restore Detox Centers. We are dedicated to providing valuable and insightful information on addiction recovery. However, it is essential to understand that the content shared in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. While we strive to ensure the accuracy and reliability of the information presented, we cannot guarantee its completeness or suitability for individual circumstances. The topics discussed in this podcast are based on general knowledge and should not be considered a substitute for professional advice or treatment.
It is important to note that the views and opinions expressed by the podcast hosts, guests, or contributors are their own and may not necessarily reflect the views of Restore Detox Centers. We strongly advise listeners to consult with qualified professionals, such as addiction counselors, therapists, or medical practitioners, before making any decisions or taking any actions based on the information provided in this podcast. Please be aware that listening to this podcast does not establish a client-provider relationship with Restore Detox Centers.
Relapse. Steve is a premeditated murder and I am the victim.
Steve Coughran:This is the Addiction Recovery Podcast with Steven T Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers in sunny California. Enjoy your experience, Steven. I want to talk about this concept pre-lapse, before the relapse and I know this has been on your heart. You've been talking about this at restore detox centers in your groups, with individuals who you help on a day-to-day basis. What do you mean by that, though?
Steven Ginsburg:Listen, like officially a triggery topic for me, but in a good way I am passionate and convicted about this. You know, relapse I am a product of relapse. I had 12 years of uninterrupted sobriety. I stopped working my program, lo and behold, drink time came. There's no mental defense against the first drink and drug Relapse. Steve is a premeditated murder and I am the victim.
Steven Ginsburg:And when people are in relapse, when they start disengaging from what is proven to be the solution from this disease, they are headed towards that tipping point where they are going to drink and drug again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when and can there be an intervention before that point? There can be. Either there's a trusted authority that steps in and gets them back on course, or they have a catastrophic moment, not a catastrophic event and they realize I am so much closer to a drink and drug than further away and they jump back to a meeting and they jump into the solution.
Steven Ginsburg:And I just want to button this one aspect up and I'm going to give it back to you real quick, brother, listen, if you're not plugged into the conception of a power grid in yourself, if you don't have that individual with working knowledge of the steps in your life. If you're not attending meetings on a regular basis, like daily or more, if you haven't worked the 12 steps, you're not working the 12 steps and the 12 steps aren't working in your life and you're not being of service. If those facets aren't in place, you are in prelapse. If those facets are missing, you are in prelapse. If those facets have never been present, you are in prelapse. If those facets have never been present, you are in prelapse and relapse is coming. That's it. Game set match and there's no negotiating around it. The beautiful part is the solution is simple.
Steve Coughran:It's just I'm complicated okay, let me ask you this, because you just you just triggered a thought do you have to believe in God to get sober? It's a great question, because I know the programs that exist out there, aa. It's highly centered around God. So, yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
Steven Ginsburg:Listen. And yet the founders were wise enough and had enough discernment, and I believe Alcoholics Anonymous was divinely inspired. But yet they have the chapter to the agnostic, because God trauma and God stuff for lack of a better term and issues with God was not going to get in the way from the simple program saving complicated people's lives. So just the idea that we can conceptualize and be willing and have that surrender to where we can accept there is something bigger than us out there, it doesn't matter what the something is. Can we have that starting point where we realize we are not the be all, end, all? That is enough for that foothold? Does it evolve over time? Is there spiritual maturity? Is there growth? Does it firmly get entrenched under the came, came to, came to believe? Yes, yes and yes, but the starting point is realizing there is something bigger than me out there. That's all we need is the conception of a power greater than ourselves and we are off and running.
Steve Coughran:Okay, I love that. That's kind of a tangent. But you know, we do talk about God, a greater power, a lot on this podcast and so I was just thinking if somebody you know is like an atheist, you know, maybe you know they had that question in their head. Okay, let's go back to the relapse because in your book filling the void which I love, like I love that book so much you were telling the story of like okay, you went to rehab early on when you were young, you got clean and then you got out and you're like super successful in your work, which is like no surprise just how great you are with people and just like how much love you have for people.
Steve Coughran:You're very successful in sales. You're crushing it. You know you're living the life. You got the car, you got the place, you got the girl, you have everything. And then all of a sudden, you know it's like maybe start slipping up a little bit and then you find yourself in relapse. And so I want to touch on what you responded to. Like at the very beginning, things were going well for you. You started slipping on, like doing the work, but was it premeditated in some sense? Or talk to me a little bit about that.
Steven Ginsburg:Thank you.
Steven Ginsburg:It's a great talking point. It's a really common cautionary tale. We start feeling good, we start doing well, work is good, love is good, life is good, money's good, things are good. There's so much good. Our health is good, our physical well-being is good. Spiritually, hopefully, we're doing better and better. And the very thing that has delivered all of this good, the promises. These are the promises we're talking about. The promises start to come true in our life and the very thing which is a working program that delivers these promises.
Steven Ginsburg:If you don't know what I'm talking to, you have no idea. No sweat, it's real simple. Go to Google, go to any search engine, look up 12 promises of AA. They're right there. It's all spelled out. So the promises come true. They come true because they materialize, because we work for them. And the very work we are doing for them starts to get neglected and negated because of the trappings of the success of recovery.
Steven Ginsburg:And it's a cautionary tale. And we start to drift. And this disease is what this disease is cunning, baffling and powerful. Or I like to put it in this manner. This disease is a baffling and powerful. Or I like to put it in this manner this disease is a parasitic, opportunistic infection. So therefore, because that drift is occurring, I have no mental defense against that first drink or drug, despite the psychic change that has occurred, I'm not practicing the things that continue to offer me a remission and then I slip and then I relapse and I suffer from a progressive, not a regressive illness.
Steven Ginsburg:Sorry, long answer, steve. My disease is growing in scope even as I abstain. So I'm sitting here on the phone with you right now, 20 years, one month and some days, clean and sober. My disease is growing in propensity and force and in scope Every day. I deny it what it wants. Well, what does it want? Wants drugs and alcohol and wants to kill me and it's livid that I can't have it. So if I let it back in, it is coming back to tsunami me and to wipe me out. There I finished my really long answer.
Steve Coughran:Well, I mean, it's so interesting because it's it's almost like we're out of shape. I'll give you a little analogy here. Like you're overweight, you start losing the weight, you start looking good, you're all ripped, you got your six pack, and then it's like you know what? I've been busting my butt. I'm not going to go work out today. Yep, I mean, it's just one day, like it's no big deal. You're like I'm just going to skip the workout, you know, and I'm going to eat that pizza and that burger and have like the extra serving of ice cream. It's. I mean, it's just one day and I deserve it. And then the next day is like, well, dang, work was kind of hard. It's going to skip again today, but I'll be back. I'm going to do it on Monday, I'll be back on track. And then you do it on Monday, tuesday, wednesday, and then you skip. And then, next thing you know, you start falling away.
Steve Coughran:And so with me this is how I think of things in life is when I'm working out and I'm doing reps, so I'm doing curls, nobody's watching me in the basement. It's like 5 AM, my whole family's sleeping. I could easily, on that ninth curl, I could just put it down and be like, okay, that's good enough. I know I said I didn't sleep well last night, but man, I'm sore, I'm tired, I didn't sleep well last night. Or I'm like, okay, I'm going to do three sets of 10 and I get done with the second set.
Steve Coughran:I could easily just skip it and move on to the next thing and be like what is my psycho? Like ADD, whatever it is, or type A personality, whatever you want to call it. I'm like I have to finish this rep because if I don't, then I lose integrity with myself. And if I, if I lose integrity with myself on doing a curl in my basement, then I'm going to lose integrity elsewhere. And that's the way I look at it. And I don't know what your thoughts are on Steven, and like how you think of things. But it's like, if you can't be true to the little things, how the heck are you going to be true to the big things?
Steven Ginsburg:It's a great analogy. And here's where it's truly apropos my disease is in relentless pursuit of me daily. So therefore, that is, by the way, that's reality. That's the truth. I am an addict and alcoholic. My addiction and alcoholism is in relentless pursuit of me on a daily basis. So then, what must I be? I must be in relentless pursuit of my recovery on a daily basis. And then I play chess with this disease, not checkers, and I maintain another day of sobriety, like we're in the middle.
Steven Ginsburg:You and I are involved in an actual, real day-to-day. It's 4.27 in the afternoon. Okay, I read my Bible verse. When I got up, I read my daily reflection, I said my prayers, including my third step prayer, which is part of how I ask God to please get me through the day clean and sober. I went to my home group at noon today. It's a 12 o'clock meeting. It's called the six meeting. It's on Wednesdays in San Marcos. I went to that meeting today. I talked to my sponsor today. The third step was in my life today was in my life today. The 10th step was in my life today. So the steps are my life and I've been of service today. You and I are being of service. Right now, I am completely set up to win the day. I am going to abstain from drugs and alcohol today. Why, steve? Because the laundry list I just gave you is the way that I relentlessly pursuit my recovery today.
Steve Coughran:Yeah, exactly.
Steven Ginsburg:It's not hard Right?
Steve Coughran:Well, It's not hard, but is it? You know, because I've been with you in California, you know we're driving down Ohio, it's a beautiful day Nope. You know, you're on top of the world, you're feeling good, like things are going well with her store and you could. And you could justify and say hey, look, you know like I teach this stuff. Yeah, I'm ever going to relapse. Got it Right Like you got. You've mastered it. This is what you do for a living Dangerous.
Steven Ginsburg:Yep, you're right. My wife bought me a beautiful car for my birthday Corvette, convertible, tops down, sunshine. And you and I are going to lunch Like no one's going to drink or drug. Until we do, I cannot, I, steve. It's that's when. That's when the disease will get me that grandiosity, that idea.
Steven Ginsburg:Like I did something like this is this gift that I have been so freely given and I must share my experience, strength and hope. And what is my primary purpose? Defined as as a recovering alcoholic, as a grateful recovering alcoholic, my primary purpose is to help the man or woman who's still suffering. Why? So I can continue to help myself. We can't let up.
Steven Ginsburg:Listen, this is like a death on 12,000 peanut allergy Six years in. We don't roll down the aisle and Ralph's and be like I'm just going to try the honey roasted pistachios and hope I don't end up in ICU. It ain't going away, it's not supposed to, it doesn't have to. I am granted that daily reprieve, but I'm granted it through the footwork that earns it. So that's where we must and this is where I'm convicted. And you've been there, you've been with me at group, you know what I'm all about, look. It's why I believe I'm alive and it is why I'm alive. I've been through this, the trappings of thinking like I've got it, I'm good. That's when I really get nervous for all of us. We must be intentional, we must lean in, we must prove our recovery with vigor and fury and urgency and realize the enemy is at the gate.
Steve Coughran:Yeah, I agree. And it's the little stuff. Right, it's the little things. If you can't be trusted with the little stuff, you're not going to be trusted with the big stuff.
Steve Coughran:I mean, you think about this, where this is the last thing I'll say and then we can wrap it up. But you know, it's like somebody may say I would never cheat on my wife, okay, well, that's only true. Or you could only say that's true when you literally have a woman, very attractive woman, who comes up to you and says, hey, let's go right now, I'm ready, right. And. And it's until you face that temptation you can't say like, oh yeah, I would never do that, right. And so it's like it's easy to say I'm strong enough, I don't need this, I got this, I'm self-sufficient, until you're, like, faced with the actual thing and then you're willing to say no. So it's like if you, if you can do the small things, then you're going to be trusted with the big things If you can. Like, you know, if you don't even go down that path because you have rules and I know you have rules like very strict rules that you apply with yourself and your wife is like incredible.
Steve Coughran:And I know sometimes you'll go to her and say, hey look, here are these pain meds. I want you to be the cop of them, lock them up, keep away like you're gonna divvy them out to me so they sound so childish, or restraining, or like steven does have power to control himself. But it's like forget, forget all that stuff, like put your pride aside and you have to just put these controls in place because none of us are strong enough, right? Because the adversary just is going to keep hitting us, hitting us, hitting us from every angle until he gets in. And that's how we avoid the relapse by being strong in the pre-lapse.
Steven Ginsburg:It's spot on. It's just to come behind. What you? Exactly what you said. You know, if you start to skip some things, what other things are you going to continue to skip? And then it just perpetuates the shortcomings in your program. They continue to fester and grow and suddenly you are so far behind that proverbial bar that you feel like there's no hope. And all of a sudden there's an opportunity where you can fall short and you take it and before you know it, you're like slamming your fist on the bar. You're like slamming your fist on the bar and you're like how did this happen to me? How did I end up here? It's because of the things you didn't do. It's because of the consistency you didn't offer to the solution. It's because of the things you didn't do. It's because of the consistency you didn't offer to the solution?
Steve Coughran:Yep, absolutely. Such a great conversation, so many resources out there. We want to hear from you. What do you think? What do you think about this podcast? What do you think about this episode? You can email us at hello at restore detox centerscom. We'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Steven Ginsburg:Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you for helping me focus on the solution. We are all in it together, a day at a time. Please know we are here with you and for you in all things. Everyone, have a safe and sober rest of your day.
