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Addiction Recovery
The Addiction Recovery Podcast is the ultimate destination for individuals battling addiction or supporting loved ones in their journey towards recovery. With a focus on providing informative, educational, and persuasive content, our podcast aims to engage and guide listeners towards healing and transformation.
Addiction Recovery
51: Cali-Sober & Psychedelics--Why This Trend Might Be Riskier Than You Think
The illusion of being “California sober” takes center stage in this candid conversation with Steven T. Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers. With nearly 21 years of sobriety, Steven challenges the idea of selective abstinence—where marijuana or psychedelics are still used while claiming recovery.
“If it alters your mind in any way, it’s a mind-altering substance,” he states, underscoring why this distinction is life-or-death for those in recovery. Through powerful analogies—like Russian roulette and severe allergic reactions—Steven shows how even limited substance use can lead back to addiction.
He frames recovery as a probability game: complete abstinence offers the best chance at long-term sobriety, while compromise raises relapse risk. Steven’s personal story, including conversations with his daughter, brings heart to the clinical reality. And while firm in his stance, he extends compassion to those trying alternative paths, reminding us that true recovery communities welcome anyone seeking help.
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Helpful Links:
Learn more about Restore Detox Centers
Filling the Void book by Steven T. Ginsburg
Overcoming the Fear and Lies of Addiction e-book
How to Love and Set Boundaries Without Enabling Addiction e-book
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If it alters your mind, your state of mind, in any form or fashion, it's a mind altering substance by definition. This is the addiction recovery podcast with Steven T Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers in sunny California. Enjoy your experience, steven. It's good to be back with you today and you have a lot of experience working with people through restored detox centers, and I want to talk today about this trend. It's not that it's a new trend, but I hear people talking about it Oftentimes. It's the rise of this Cali sober psychedelic sobriety pathway whatever you want to call it, and so let's dive into that. For those who are listening and they're not familiar with this Cali sober lifestyle, what is that exactly?
Steven Ginsburg:So, first and foremost, brother, great to be back with you. I so appreciate the time and, as usual, very pertinent, very relevant topic. So I appreciate the topic. I hesitate to use the word sober lifestyle along with the defining terms, but people who look at California sober or who will look at psychedelic sobriety, what they're really doing is trying to use a plan, words or a fancy term to say that they would connotate sobriety as abstinence from any mind-altering substance, except they do still participate with marijuana. Or if you're going to look at the psychedelic sobriety, they'll look at abstinence from any mind-altering substance except for psychedelics or a microdose psychedelics. And very quickly, to put a thumbnail on it in my book, the Way I Was Raised, where I Live, with the disease that I suffer from and I am bodily and mentally different than my fellows any mind-altering substance that crosses my lips will kick in my allergy and will cause the manifestation and the phenomenon of craving in my life and I will be off and running.
Steven Ginsburg:I believe, as a sober individual and as a person who is called to work and equip people in the field of sobriety, that anyone who is an addict and alcoholic and every alcoholic is an addict and every addict is an alcoholic. If they are participating with any mind-altering substance and marijuana is a mind-altering substance they are not sober, they are not abstaining, there is no sobriety and they're in peril, and it's just a matter of time before they reintroduce themselves to their drug of choice. Whatever that may be, and let's not forget as a footnote, alcohol is a drug. The base ingredient of alcohol is ethanol. That is a drug. Hence, every addict is an alcoholic. Every alcoholic is an addict.
Steve Coughran:So the idea of this California sobriety is essentially like, say, I'm an alcoholic and I get sober, but then I say, look, Steven, I'm not going to drink hard liquor like I used to, but I'm just going to drink hard liquor like I used to, but I'm just going to go to the bar and have a wine cooler. It's just a wine cooler. It's point blah, blah, blah percent far lower than vodka or gin or whatever it may be. And that's okay. Is that what we're talking about ?
Steven Ginsburg:It's the same train of thought. It's the same school. I will not die on the hill of debating that. I refuse to. And here's why when the mind-altering substance is introduced back into the addict and alcoholic's life, the unmanageability will progressively this is a progressive illness, not a regressive illness rear its ugly head. The consequences will start to amass themselves, things will get worse and worse and eventually again, each addict and alcoholic will be led back to their drug of choice or their substance of choice. It never fails. So I don't sign off on it.
Steven Ginsburg:I don't believe in it. It's not the way it's written. It's not the way it works it. I don't believe in it. It's not the way it's written. It's not the way it works. It's not sobriety, it's just a convenient rationalization and formula. And people argue with me about this. It's okay, I've got mine. I'm doing it as it's written. By God's grace and mercy, in November I'll take 21 years, clean and sober. I've seen what this disease does. I've seen what the gateway drug of marijuana does. I've seen what alcohol does. I am good with that stance of sobriety abstinence from any and every mind altering substance.
Steve Coughran:Because I mean. The argument basically, Steven, is look, I used to do heroin or crystal meth, but now I'm only smoking weed. What's the big deal? I mean is that the argument that you hear?
Steven Ginsburg:I mean, it could be the argument that I would hear and my only counter to that argument would be like listen, I'm for you, I love you, I hate your disease. Eventually, that marijuana will lead you back to heroin. And if I'm wrong and you spend your whole life, a day at a time, living in that space, and then I'm wrong, praise God because your life does not end at the hands of heroin overdose. But too many times, as the percentages show me time and time again, and you know, because you know me well, this is my calling, and Restore gives me an even more concentrated environment, and this has been my life's path on and off since I was 19. I've seen too many times, over and over again, where any digression leads the addict and the alcoholic back to their drug of choice.
Steve Coughran:Yeah, so what's the difference between California sober and psychedelic sobriety, or is it pretty much the same thing?
Steven Ginsburg:Same formula. Just switch substances. Now move it over to oh, this individual's microdosing LSD, or this individual's microdosing hallucinogenics, or this individual is taking a small amount of mushrooms, and again, so you are ingesting intentionally a mind-altering substance. There is no definition you can find of sobriety where a mind-altering substance is involved. Lesser of two evils, it's fine. It's just if you have a heavy, heavy duty diabetic who is still abusing and using and misusing sugar and tinkering with their insulin level, that can prove fatal. The same thing can and will prove fatal for the addict and alcoholic who tries to find that workaround, tries to find that formula for drinking and drugging manageably.
Steve Coughran:Yeah, and I think that's like that's spot on, and we've talked about this before and this is like my favorite thing to talk like with you about is the whole probability game. You know we always talk about this, but it's just, I think it's so important to reinforce. I have this conversation with my kids all the time and they're like dad, seriously, we've heard it all the time and it's very clear. It's like okay, what's the probability of staying sober? If you believe in complete abstinence, then you have a probability there, right?
Steve Coughran:Absolutely, then you have a probability there, right. And then it's like what's the probability of relapse if you introduce weed and psychedelics and it's like anything that would increase that probability to me is just I mean, you're just flirting with fire there. You're playing with fire. It's very dangerous. It's Russian roulette, right, it's Russian roulette and we've talked before. It's like I tell my daughter I'm like what's the probability of you getting pregnant before marriage or as a teenager?
Steve Coughran:And she's like you know, I don't know, dad, I'm like zero it's zero If you don't have sexual relationships with somebody. Perfect analogy, I mean, it's zero, like it's it's zero. It's not point something, percent, it's zero. And so I love when you talk about sobriety. It's not this gray thing. I think it's black and white and I like your definition. If it alters your mind, your state of mind, in any form or fashion, it's a mind-altering substance by definition.
Steven Ginsburg:Absolutely. I want to just share one analogy with you, as we kind of head down the proverbial home stretch. This is a very cut and dry topic and, again, this is not the hill I will die on, because people's lives are at stake. So I don't negotiate with terrorists. Someone's holding a gun to their head and they're telling me they're going to shoot themselves. I don't negotiate with terrorists. Someone's holding a gun to their head and they're telling me they're going to shoot themselves. I don't negotiate with that individual. It's up to you whether or not you want to take a chance with whether or not there's something in that chamber. It's each individual's choice. But I know the way it's written, I know the way things work out, I know the progressive nature of this illness.
Steven Ginsburg:But here's something Marlia said to me some time ago, and you know our daughter very well. She's 13, going on 30. She's remarkable. She loves recovery. She loves people who are recovering. As she continued to get more and more familiar with my story, she said to me Daddy, you relapsed after 12 years. You never drank during your relapse. That's a fact.
Steven Ginsburg:The last time I had a drink of alcohol, steve, was when I was 19. Now that's not how many years sober I am. I am 20 years, not months and some days clean and sober as we speak, because my first day completely abstinent of any mind altering substance was November 12th 2004. So she's like, if you never drank all that time and it's been all these years, you could have a drink. Well, she's right, of course I could have a drink, but what I was able to walk all the way through with her is, marlia.
Steven Ginsburg:If daddy has a drink and daddy is a drug addict which I am, so therefore I identify as an alcoholic the base ingredient of that drink that daddy has is ethanol. That ethanol will trigger my allergy to mind-altering substances and then daddy will go right back to getting his drugs of choice or his drug of choice. So I can't to your point, steve of choice or his drug of choice. So I can't, to your point, steve, take that chance. I can't risk that, because my progressive illness is growing in scope, even as I abstain. Even right now, as you and I are talking, my illness, my ailment, my disease is furious and livid and growing in scope, so that if I allow it back in, it can finish the job. How does my disease finish the job? It kills me.
Steve Coughran:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, Marlia brings up, you know, this question to you, but also I think there's a lot of social media influencers out there that shape the perception of California sobriety right, not always in positive ways. Like, what do you, what do you hear from people? I mean, is this like when you have people come to the house and they're like all right, steven, I'm leaving, you know, thanks for help. I'm going to start living this life of sobriety? Is this like a common theme that they do? They go down that path with you? In other words, do they ask you, hey, so like, is it cool if I smoke weed or do this? Or do they know, okay, when I leave the house, I need to be a hundred percent sober? Like, how pervasive is this, like this mindset in this whole?
Steven Ginsburg:It's out there. There's an entire realm of people who are like you don't need AA, you don't need a 12 step program, you don't need recovery, we've got a system to help you drink manageably Good. You know anybody who wants to go read the doctor's opinion, where in the doctor's opinion they say let people bear witness to the broken homes, the broken marriage, the despondent, destitute, abandoned children, let them see the fallout of addiction and alcoholism and see if they can empathize and see if they can find their way to see that this is what works. So I say to all those people you know, have at it. I'm not going to sit there in judgment, I'm not going to wave my finger, I'm not going to disparage anyone when they finally make it our way.
Steven Ginsburg:But inevitably because of the nature of this beast, inevitably because of the nature of this beast, they will eventually need help of some sort. They will retract to where they were or worse, because it's progressive illness, and we will be waiting for them with open arms and an open heart and a prayerful hope that they can achieve complete sobriety, because that is the only way this thing works. Just last blush, really quickly, you know, you don't kind of have sort of like. I kind of have a little bit of a peanut allergy. You got a peanut allergy, you have a peanut allergy and you're not going near any peanuts period and you don't get seven, eight, nine, 10 years down the road and be like huh, these like almonds, let me give those a shot and see how that goes. It's going to end up the same way. You're going to need to not be patent. You may end up in the ICU or it could even kill you.
Steve Coughran:Yeah, absolutely. It's just not worth it. I mean, it's not even worth like flirting with it at all. So I want to hear your thoughts. Stephen and I, we always talk about emailing us. Hello, at restore detox centerscom, you can always do that. Email is a great form, but also, if you're on Spotify and if you just click on the episode and you just scroll down below, there's a box where you can leave a comment for us. So if you just type in that box, you can leave us whatever. Do you agree with this? What are your thoughts on this whole California sober lifestyle trend that's existing out there? Drop your comments down below. Also, if you have ideas for other shows or other topics that you want us to dive deep into, we read every comment and we'll respond to every comment and every email. So please be a part of this community and let's spread the word on what we're trying to accomplish here.
Steven Ginsburg:Amen, Steve. Thank you so much and please know this it is about the similarities, not the differences. No matter which way you land on this issue and this issue is life and death we are for you, we are with you in all things and we will always be there, waiting with open arms and hope to help to anyone who needs it or wants it. I just wish everyone a safe.
