72: Does Talking About Drugs and Alcohol Put Ideas in Kids’ Heads

Think one small decision can’t change everything? We break down how tiny concessions—a beer at a party, a shared pill, a split-second lapse—can stack into life-altering consequences teens never see coming. With fentanyl and counterfeit pills everywhere, the old “not me” mindset is dangerously outdated, so we skip scare tactics and silence in favor of a clear, compassionate approach that actually helps.

Steven T. Ginsburg and Steve Coughran share real stories from recovery and parenting, unpacking why programs like DARE often missed the mark and what works instead: plain language, relatable scenarios, and honest conversations. From the blue M&M analogy that makes risk real to practical safeguards like no-questions-asked rides, code words, and firm boundaries, this conversation equips parents, educators, and mentors with tools teens can use when pressure is high and judgment is low.

The goal isn’t to lecture—it’s to plant a script that runs when it matters. You’ll leave with language that resonates, examples teens recognize themselves in, and a plan to prepare—not just warn—the kids you care about.

Helpful Links:
Learn more about Restore Detox Centers
Filling the Void book by Steven T. Ginsburg
Overcoming the Fear and Lies of Addiction e-book
How to Love and Set Boundaries Without Enabling Addiction e-book
Call Us for Addiction Recovery:  1-800-982-5530

DISCLAIMER:
Welcome to the Addiction Recovery podcast, brought to you by Restore Detox Centers. We are dedicated to providing valuable and insightful information on addiction recovery. However, it is essential to understand that the content shared in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. While we strive to ensure the accuracy and reliability of the information presented, we cannot guarantee its completeness or suitability for individual circumstances. The topics discussed in this podcast are based on general knowledge and should not be considered a substitute for professional advice or treatment.

It is important to note that the views and opinions expressed by the podcast hosts, guests, or contributors are their own and may not necessarily reflect the views of Restore Detox Centers. We strongly advise listeners to consult with qualified professionals, such as addiction counselors, therapists, or medical practitioners, before making any decisions or taking any actions based on the information provided in this podcast. Please be aware that listening to this podcast does not establish a client-provider relationship with Restore Detox Centers.

Transcript

Opening And DARE’s Unintended Effects

Steven Ginsburg 0:00

Yeah, it's not going to happen to you until it does, or until it happens to someone you know through a series of events. It is dominoes.

Steve Coughran 0:06

This is the Addiction Recovery Podcast with Steven T. Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers in Sunny California. Enjoy your experience. Steven, do you remember growing up the program that they launched in school called DARE? Did you have that where you were growing up?

Steven Ginsburg 0:27

Thousand percent. You and I are I'm older than you, I'm older than everybody, but yes, I absolutely had that.

Parenting Fears And Drug Testing Debate

Steve Coughran 0:33

And I remember like the the cops came in, they had a canine dog, they handed out the black shirts that had Dare spelled out, and it stood for drug abuse resistance education. And I remember seeing a study recently about this where the program actually flopped. And maybe, maybe I'm wrong about this, but what the study was saying is that it actually created this like intrigue with kids. So instead of teaching them about drug abuse and not going down the path of addiction, it actually created curiosity. And there's another study that I read in another book about a different school that wanted to scare the crap out of kids. So they took them to a prison and they showed them, like, hey, this is where you're gonna end up if you continue down this path. And instead of scaring the kids, the the class or the school that did that, they actually had a higher rate of kids ending up in jail. And it's like this reverse, like or unintended consequences. And so I want to talk to you about this because, you know, I have a daughter, she's 12 years old, she's starting to hang out with other teenagers, she's in middle school. And, you know, we've talked before about drug testing kids, and I brought that up. I actually did my first drug test on her uh recently, and we talked about like why we do it to like protect her from peer pressure and other bad situations. But then I was thinking the other day, do I have to be careful? Because what I don't want to do is to create this curiosity where she's like, Why is my dad talking about drugs all the time and alcohol? Like, maybe I want to try a little bit, maybe I want to be a little rebellious. What are your thoughts on that?

Transparent Truths And Real Consequences

Steven Ginsburg 2:15

Thank you for bringing this up. It sometimes it's hard for me to let you finish because I want to jump in and start talking. But I like that. That's a good exercise too, because I'm I'm very passionate about this. And and I want to do a quick disclaimer. This statement doesn't cast any judgment on those programs. Not what you're sharing with me is is factual and and those things occurred, but uh that's not to say neither here nor there the validity or the merit of those programs. My stance on this is as follows we must provide transparent, clear, concise, perfect information to our young people and let them know the choices will have consequences and show them very clearly what the what the consequences will be, which means they have to have the most uncomfortable part of those conversations. The fact that children so often, children who look just like our children will end up dead at the hands of experimentation with drugs and alcohol. We'll end up with a life-altering consequence at the expense of driving impaired or altered. And we've got to play that tape and that message all the way through and never hold back. Now, I don't know for a fact if either of those programs held back on the messaging or didn't deliver the goods or didn't really clearly walk them root to fruit through the cause and effect. If they did in any way, shape, or form, the results will show it. If you don't, very often the results will be the opposite. They will drive curious minds and hands and bodies away from that that could endanger them in this world of ours.

Steve Coughran 3:49

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, to your point, you bring up a great point. How many lives did the DARE program save? And how many, how many people avoided drugs because of that? So, like, I I want to be very clear on that because you know, sometimes these research studies can be a little skewed, but I think like as parents or as friends or as colleagues or whatever role we're playing in somebody else's lives, we have to be very careful about, you know, like you said, the language that we use and be very, very intentional with our words and our descriptions and everything else. You brought up the idea of consequences, and it made me think of like an activity. I haven't done this with my kids, but this is something that I have in my head, where perhaps I get a like a non-transparent like cup or something, and I say, okay, you know, a blue MM is death. You get the blue MM, you're dead. And so I was thinking, okay, maybe I'll put, you know, some green, some yellow, some red MMs in this cup and say to the kids, hey, grab one of the MMs. And they grab one, it's like, huh, okay, grab another MM. And I'm like, what's the probability of getting the blue MM? It's zero, right? Without it putting in there. Okay, well, now let's start introducing some risky behaviors. So you go to a party, oh, blue MM's in the cup now, right? You smoke marijuana for the first time, blue MM in the cup, right? And now all of a sudden, the odds of death, of disease, of prison or whatever it may be, the consequence may be, is gonna increase by engaging in these behaviors. It's what we've talked about before. What's your chance of getting pregnant before marriage? Zero if you don't have sex, zero, right?

Steven Ginsburg 5:38

Correct.

Steve Coughran 5:39

You have it one time though, sure. The probability may be one in a thousand if you're using protection, but it's there, right? And so the same thing is true, like when I say the blue MM is death, and somebody may argue marijuana is not gonna kill you. It's like, yeah, right. You know how much more dangerous marijuana is today with fentanyl than it was you know 10, 20 years ago when I was smoking it.

The Blue M&M Risk Analogy

Steven Ginsburg 6:04

Absolutely. It's just very, it's it's very apropo, it's very irrelevant, and it it's about letting them truly know what those consequences are like. And then Steve, also it kind of to your assertion, it's also letting them know who is suffering from those consequences. One of the things that I find very effective when I present to younger people is and God rest, you know, these family members' souls, I will show them the pictures of teens, etc., who have died at the hands of drugs and alcohol. And those kids look exactly like the kids that I'm addressing and the children that I'm speaking to. And that's one of the most important factors is that they see the familiarity, they see the similarities, they're not focused on the differences, they're not caught in this vast world of that could never happen to me. It can and it does all too often to people that are exactly like us on a day-to-day basis.

Steve Coughran 7:06

Yeah, I mean, because you think of somebody doing heroin as some scummy long hair, you know, like dirt bag. And it's like, actually, you know what? The kid doing heroin is the the football quarterback.

Fentanyl Reality And Local Tragedies

Steven Ginsburg 7:19

Yeah, is the prom keen. The prom queen. Exactly. Steve, there's an honor student from this area. I'm gonna be very vague, who God rest her soul, she was 18 years old. She graduated with honors, she went on a retreat, she tried cocaine for the first time, she died immediately from fentanyl exposure. She had never tried cocaine before, she'd never done anything like that. She did it once, she's gone forever. This was an honor student from our zip code. Very easy to reach her area from where we sit. I show those children that slide of that young lady again and again and again. It is so disturbing, but it's all too common. The risk is not worth what lies on the other side of that when there's intrigue at hand. But people aren't going to inherently understand those types of realities on their own. The information must be provided, but that doesn't mean it's comfortable. And so what? So let's have an uncomfortable conversation. Let's expose some of the realities of what is out there for our young people, and by the way, for ourselves. And let's reinforce that we've got to err on the side of caution because it's just too dangerous not to.

Steve Coughran 8:27

But how do you avoid the eye rolls? You know, because remember when we were young and and like adults or our parents would talk to us, and you're like, that's not gonna happen to me, mom, dad. I'm different. I got my stuff together, I'm more organized, I'm more disciplined, I'm an athlete, I work out, whatever. You're like, that's not gonna happen to me. That's for like the losers. How do you avoid that? Because I can imagine just having this conversation with my daughter, and it's like, Dad, you don't even understand. That's not how it is. But it's like, yeah, maybe you're not into it right now. Maybe you haven't been exposed to it right now, but one day you will be.

Steven Ginsburg 9:08

You know, Steve, I first of all, I'd rather embrace the eye rolls. I'm looking for the eye roller. I want those people. I want to and I want to engage, and there's never a problem until when, until there is one.

Steve Coughran 9:19

Right.

Eye Rolls, Parties, And Domino Decisions

Steven Ginsburg 9:20

And yeah, you know, it would never happen to me until so. Let's walk. I love this. So thank you, by the way. And you triggered me. So good job. So you'll get a long answer. So let's walk all the way through. It's gonna never happen to me, like, dad, you don't understand, except you except you go to a party and it's like a kegger, and you're like, I know I'm not supposed to drink underage, and then you have a beer and a half, and you're not used to having a beer and a half at a kegger because you haven't been drinking this whole time at 17 years old. Thank goodness. And suddenly that on guard mentality and all that good information, it is dampered and softened by the effects of alcohol. And suddenly a bunch of pills are being passed around. You're like, Well, everyone else is taking a pill. Like, I mean, I already had a beer and a half. Let me try to. I'm gonna just try a pill. And suddenly you've ingested a pill that is laced with fentanyl. And it came because your guard was down because you had that beer. It's a line of succession and compromises and concessions. And suddenly we're at the event horizon, which is where, like my eye rollers, I'm looking for them. Yeah, it's not gonna happen to you until it does or until it happens to someone you know through a series of events. It is dominoes, so we've got to be on high alert. 24-7, and there's no problem living like that. It's about being careful, it's about being cautious, it's about understanding what we're facing and what we're dealing with and the reality of today's circumstances.

Impaired Judgment And Lifelong Fallout

Steve Coughran 10:38

Yeah, and I think about the training of special forces like Navy SEALs, Delta Force, or Army Rangers. One of my good friends, he's an Army Ranger, and he has told me about just like the whatever you call it, the boot camp, and um, you know, the the initial training that they went through to get qualified. And he's just like, they sleep deprive you, you're up for like days. Um, you're like falling asleep standing up, they're like screaming in your face, they fire a rifle right by your ear, you know, they all these noise, all this distraction, all this stuff, right? And it's like, why are they doing that to you? Not just to punish you, not to just filter out the week, but also because when you're in it, like when you're in like that state of battle, your mindset or your decision and your like rationale, like your ability to to think clearly is disrupted. And so, like the same thing's true with like kids, you're like, Oh, I would never do cocaine. Come on. And it's like, okay, sure, with a clear judgment, clear judgment, but then you're at a party, and like you said, you have a few beers, all of a sudden your judgment goes out the window, and then you're making decisions that you otherwise wouldn't. I just read, I just read this on social media, it's super disturbing. This girl, she's a young girl, attractive girl, and she was at one of these college parties at a frat party, and she was drinking. Well, in anyway, she ends up getting like drunk and she ends up naked somehow. I don't know if she took off her clothes or or what happened, but then people were taking pictures and videoing her. And guess what they did? They posted it on the internet. Poor girl, destroyed her life. She had to move out of this town, she had to go to a new school, she had to change her name. I mean, can you imagine that? Can you imagine like your daughter going to a party and then like pictures are floating around the internet and you're trying to console her? Yeah, and it's like that's just one night. That's one decision. You think this girl went to that party thinking, you know what, I'm gonna get naked and I'm gonna have people take pictures of me. No, no, not in a million, not in a million, billion, matrillion, fulfillion years. So that's the kind of stuff that happens. So, like, how explicit do you get with kids when you're talking to them about like the risks and dangers that drugs and alcohol pose?

Steven Ginsburg 13:01

Extremely explicit, case in point, like the like the cautionary tale you just shared. That you know, this is what can happen when we introduce other factors to the circumstances, and when the ability to have sound body and sound mind and sound discernment is interrupted and intervened upon by foreign substance.

Steve Coughran 13:22

Yeah, and I imagine when you're talking to people up at the house, a lot of their stories probably end with, I cannot believe this is where I ended up, or some variation thereof.

Steven Ginsburg 13:34

Absolutely, and I'm always grateful that where their story led them was to us because there's a lot worse places they could have ended up, including the morgue. Yeah, and it's we never we never miss out on an opportunity to talk to talk about that part of the blessing. You're alive, we've got a shot.

Be Explicit, Share Stories, Save Lives

Steve Coughran 13:49

Yeah, I mean, such an amazing work you're doing at restore. We want to hear from you. You could always email us hello at restore detoxcenters.com. Uh, shoot us an email. What are your thoughts? What are you struggling with? What's your story? We uh that we really appreciate that. Also, it'd mean the world to us if you share this podcast with other people in your group. That's the greatest compliment you can pay us. Uh, the more that we spread this around the world, the more people we can help and the more people we can heal. Stephen, great doing another episode with you today. Always a pleasure.

Steven Ginsburg 14:21

Steve, thank you for such a bold, brave, and courageous topic. Uh I appreciate the conversation more than I can tell you. But what I'm really grateful for is the fact that people come out there with open ears, open minds, and hearts can take this in. And and just like Steve said, guys, we want to hear from you. If you have feedback, if you want to engage, if you have questions, there is nothing better for us than hearing back from you. Just know this we love you, we are for you, and everyone have a safe and sober day.