90: The Fears, the Questions, and the Simple Truth About Getting Help.Raw

Someone enters detox thinking, “I can’t believe I ended up here.” That moment of fear, regret, and honesty is often where recovery begins. Steve Coughran sits down with Stephen T. Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers, to discuss the conversations that happen when someone gets sober and begins facing life without substances.

They explore the deeper causes of addiction, including the emptiness, pain, and disconnection that can drive substance use. Stephen shares insights on the difference between pain and suffering, responding instead of reacting, and how integrity and meaningful actions help rebuild self-worth.

The conversation also covers the family side of recovery, the fear of losing a loved one, and what a strong post-treatment plan looks like—including sober living, outpatient support, meetings, sponsorship, and daily commitment to recovery.

Helpful Links:
Learn more about Restore Detox Centers
Filling the Void book by Steven T. Ginsburg
Overcoming the Fear and Lies of Addiction e-book
How to Love and Set Boundaries Without Enabling Addiction e-book
Call Us for Addiction Recovery:  1-800-982-5530

DISCLAIMER:
Welcome to the Addiction Recovery podcast, brought to you by Restore Detox Centers. We are dedicated to providing valuable and insightful information on addiction recovery. However, it is essential to understand that the content shared in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. While we strive to ensure the accuracy and reliability of the information presented, we cannot guarantee its completeness or suitability for individual circumstances. The topics discussed in this podcast are based on general knowledge and should not be considered a substitute for professional advice or treatment.

It is important to note that the views and opinions expressed by the podcast hosts, guests, or contributors are their own and may not necessarily reflect the views of Restore Detox Centers. We strongly advise listeners to consult with qualified professionals, such as addiction counselors, therapists, or medical practitioners, before making any decisions or taking any actions based on the information provided in this podcast. Please be aware that listening to this podcast does not establish a client-provider relationship with Restore Detox Centers.

Transcript

Emptiness And The Way Out

Speaker 2 0:00

We've got this spiritual malady, we've got this emptiness. The way to fulfillment is with esteemable acts, with life-fulfilling choices, with walking in integrity, with being present for our loved ones.

Speaker 0:12

This is the Addiction Recovery Podcast with Steven T. Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers in Sunny, California. Enjoy your experience.

Steve Coughran 0:26

Steven, in this episode, I want to do something completely different. I understand that there's some things you may not be able to say because of confidentiality and HIPAA and everything else, but I want to hear from you and I want to get into like not the, you know, I don't want the fluff, I don't want you to water this down, but I want to hear what conversations sound like when you're talking with somebody at Restore who is completely broken, who's completely in a dark space, because I've been to group at Restore, and you do such a wonderful job talking to people, empathizing with them, bringing encouragement. And I just want to know like what kind of conversations are being had, like what kind of things do people say? Like, let's let's talk about some themes that you come across when they're really down and out, when they're really broken, or when they get sober and they're scared about going back into the real world. What say you?

Speaker 2 1:30

Listen, thank you. I love this. I love that you've been there and you will be there again. And it's this isn't this isn't like things that we're hypothetically drumming up. These are things that you've experienced alongside myself firsthand. You know, they're very, Steve, they're very intentional conversations laden with empathy and with a massive sense of urgency, because there is a massive sense of urgency. And what I really love about those conversations and being able to lean in where I'm called is that the sense of urgency exists within the context of that day for myself as well. Because anyone who's going to be clean and sober, like I am, on a daily basis, is going to be treating a spiritual malady where within the context of each 24 hours through a series of things, you earn an ongoing remission and reprieve.

Steve Coughran 2:29

So, I mean, what do people say to you? Let's try to break this down because it's it's kind of a broad topic. But yeah, like when people first come in, right, and they start getting sober, right? And they they want to talk to somebody about what's going on in their lives, and I'm sure they open up to you quite a bit. What do they even say? Is it is it like, do they go back to the first time they started using, or are they like, I cannot believe I ended up here, you know, and like usually like what are the first few conversations revolving around?

Disbelief, Regret, And Early Acceptance

Speaker 2 3:05

You know, that's a really good question. So much of it starts out with just getting through the disbelief that they ended up in these circumstances, and I want to very quickly get them past that just by being supportive, because it is a blessing to end up in that place where you have surrendered and you start to get into acceptance and understand that there's a solution. And so helping them get past those sort of baseline areas of regret and remorse are those first steps and those first conversations, and then giving them a chance just to share what's on their heart, and then letting them know hey, this is in the moment you may feel somewhat overwhelmed, it may not all make sense, the lingo and the diatribe isn't gonna all resonate. Just like just sit in, just keep your ears open, your mind and your heart open. Continue to take in the information and understand like this is an equal opportunist disease, this is an equal opportunist solution. Let's give ourselves a chance here and let's start to find out what's going on, what are the baselines that have led to where we've landed, and start looking at the approach to that remission and that reprieve.

Steve Coughran 4:23

And so, what what do people say? I think that's really interesting. Where there's like this realization, like, oh my gosh, how did I end up here? What I got here, and you know, it's interesting. I remember like um right. I think it's I think it was Jeffrey Dahmer, um, or one of those like serial killers. And maybe I'm getting it wrong right now, but I remember there's like an interview where somebody was asking them, like, how like how do you even get from like being this like baby that your mom's holding in your arm, her arms, and she's like this cute, innocent baby who's growing up to becoming a serial killer. I mean, it just it's not like we just switch one day. We're like, I'm gonna start killing people, right? And I remember him saying that it all started with pornography, which was interesting. You're like, huh, pornography led to killing people, but it was like this fascination with that, and then it like led to fantasies, and you know, they he ended up acting it out, right? Like raping women and killing women and so on and so forth. And so it's like I'm sure when people come to you, it's not like they're all sober, things are great, they're the you know, the head of their class, or the the prom king or prom queen, whatever, they're successful in their career, they they're this great mom or whatever, and then one day they're like, you know what, I'm gonna do some heroin. Right. Go down this path. So, like, what leads people down that path? Is it like abuse? Is it something traumatic? Is it like an unexpected death that they can't deal with, some other type of pain? Or do some people are they're just curious and they go down the wrong path? Like, what do you see and like what do you hear?

How Addiction Starts And Grows

Speaker 2 6:15

It's a little bit of a multifaceted answer. I want you to know that. You know, it's a progressive illness, just like it's a progressive solution. So, you know, when the ism is present, the I self me is present, and when the manifestation of craving is present, that grows in scope as someone who's an addict and alcoholic uses and abuses drugs and alcohol. Some people like myself, I was like, it wasn't progressive, it was immediate steep. I had this terrible emptiness that I carried around, which was my spiritual malady. I never felt like I fit in, I never felt like anything was right, I never felt my worth, I never felt like things were gonna work out. Those were all lies. When drugs were introduced to my system, drugs and alcohol, that emptiness got filled up, and I landed on this spot. Oh, I found my answer and I immediately jumped into addiction and alcoholism. So so it's usually within the vein of those two camps. It's either progressive in nature and continues to grow and grow as the person goes along, or it hits and it strikes like a lightning strike, and they are immediately an addict and an alcoholic.

Steve Coughran 7:31

So would you say, and we're generalizing here, but just from your experience, would you say a lot of it starts from pain? Yes. Like, is that the catalyst? Like they're carrying around some type of pain.

Speaker 2 7:45

Yes. I would say I'd say there's an emptiness, I'd say there's a spiritual malady that is being carried around. And by the way, I also want to I want to be very careful with my words. Here comes a disclaimer. I love disclaimers. I can go a day without drugs and alcohol. I cannot go a day without a disclaimer. I also want to say this. I think even a person who casually has a drink or casually does drugs, although I don't believe in any casual drug use, I think there is something that is lacking, something that they're wanting to feel differently about or over or with. And they the only way they can bridge that gap is with something like a drink, a drug. And I so I think it it it's the same malady, but it's it's magnified and shows itself in different ways and it's to different degrees with each individual.

Steve Coughran 8:43

So is that what you mean when you say spiritual malady? Like what do you like explain that in simple terms for people who aren't familiar with that?

Speaker 2 8:50

Yes, sure, certainly. By all means. Some sort of emptiness, some sort of perceived deficiency, some sort of pain, some sort of lack of comfort about what anything that leads them to want to numb that up and out, have that thought, that pain, that pattern removed. That is uh what I view as that spiritual malady, that deficiency that is perceived that they are trying to fix for lack of a better term.

Steve Coughran 9:23

And I don't know about you, but like this is the biggest bull crap that I tell myself all the time. And I and I know it, but I I still continue to tell myself it. It's like the faster I learn this lesson, here I am, 47 years old, and I still get this wrong. And this is the bullcrap that I'm talking about. It's

Pain, Suffering, And Spiritual Malady

Steve Coughran 9:40

this idea that life should not have problems. That's the problem, right? For some reason, I think I and I it's like if I just accept the fact that life is gonna have problems, there's always gonna be problems, and there's always gonna be challenges, and you just accept that. But for some reason, I don't know why it's wired in me like this, but it's also wired in other people. So I don't think I'm that strange. It's like we go along life and we expect everything to be perfect, and then a problem pops up, and we're like, oh, you know, like something's wrong with me. I'm this, I'm that, I'm depressed, I'm anxious, blah, blah, blah. My life's not good, life sucks, my work's. It's like when we accept the fact that these are all learning opportunities and things that push us towards growth, I think that's when we can let go and move make progress. Pain's always gonna exist. There's always gonna be pain. Right? I mean it's interesting that we're wired that way, isn't it?

Speaker 2 10:44

It is interesting that we're wired that way. And there's a saying, it's it's very much room speak, like a room speak. Like pain is a must, but suffering is what? Optional. Right. We're gonna have pain, like things hurt. We don't have to suffer over it. We can process through it, we can pray about it, we can come into community about it and seek support. And those are healthy responses, not reactions, responses to the pain. If what you're gonna do is, you know, turn to a bottle of Pinot Grigio or go to the dispensary, and then that becomes your conditioned response to the pain, uh, that's gonna continue to take more and more to numb you out further and further when that pain shows itself and rears its ugly head again, which we both have just agreed, it's going to. Like in this world, we're gonna have trouble. We know that. But you know, be comforted. Christ overcame the world. Like that's where the answer is, and kind of leads us back to where to what I'm leaning on, which is we've got this spiritual malady, we've got this emptiness. The way to fulfillment is with esteemable acts, with life-fulfilling choices, with walking in integrity, with being present for our loved ones. There's no there's no chemical that's going to allow us to have those feelings and that healthy outcome, the way that that laundry list and that inventory of good things derived from a good spiritual place can provide.

Steve Coughran 12:12

Yeah, and it's interesting when you said that. I just had this thought pop in my head. You know, the drug commercials that are on TV where it's like, if you're suffering from depression, try this drug. And then it's like, you know, side effects include diarrhea, anxiety, you know, cramps, da-da-da, stroke, whatever. But it it only happens to a certain percentage. Some people it doesn't happen to. What's interesting about drug use specifically is that it 100% happens all the time. You know, it's not like there's some 90-year-old man walking around who's been using meth his entire life and he's like, Yeah, you know, this has been great. Like it didn't really have all these negative effects on me. Like we've talked about this before. It's death or prison.

Speaker 2 12:57

Exactly right. You know, so how come they don't have a commercial like, hey, if you're anxious and you're not feeling well and you're feeling downtrodden, go for a walk and have an endorphin release. You know why? Because you can't buy that, right? And and it's sad. And I and and I understand look, we're not doctors, and I understand the medical necessity for anything and everything. There's solutions in so many different facets and approaches to our well-being, to our mental acuity. It's just it's very unfortunate. It's a consumer-driven nation, but this is also where drugs and alcohol really can be detrimental and cost us lives, and it and it does every single day.

Families Facing Life Or Death Fears

Steve Coughran 13:39

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so they so you talk a little bit about, you know, how do they end up here? Um, you know, they they share a little bit about their their spiritual malady, their pain that they're going through. What about from the family side? Because I imagine some family members call you, especially when their kids or their spouse or their partner um is at restore in treatment. Like what what what do those conversations usually revolve around?

Speaker 2 14:07

They're hard and they're heartfelt, and there's a lot of pain and there's a lot of you know bewilderment. And it helps me on both ends, Steve. For the community, and when I describe community, those are the people who are coming alongside, those are the people we're treating at restore. For the community, when I engage with their family, it makes it small for them. Like makes what small for them. Like dealing with their journey and also being being sure that their family's okay, it makes that smaller for them. So that's very beneficial. For the families, it's about having them understand, like, hey, we're not in a negotiation here or a concept here. This is gonna be life and death for your loved one. And if they follow suggestions and they work a program of sobriety, the results are gonna be really good. If they don't, yes, they will be sober and abstaining while they're at restore, but very quickly they will be in prelapse and in relapse and they will off than they were before because that's the way this whole thing goes.

Steve Coughran 15:09

What do people, and that that all makes sense? What are people like what are they most afraid of? Let's talk about from the family's perspective. What are they most worried about or most afraid of when they're talking to you?

Speaker 2 15:21

First and foremost, they're of course, and I know you know this, they're most afraid of their loved one dying at the hands of their addiction or alcoholism. And that's that makes a lot of sense. And then they're also afraid that nothing will change, and that's a valid fear because unless we change everything, we can't change anything. So it is about changing one thing, which is everything, which is hard, right? Like, especially when it's like an amazing, it's simple, the solution is simple, but it's not easy to change everything. But the solution is basic and simple and fundamental and has a a comprehensive set of ingredients that are proven. Like, look, we and you and I talked on this. AA just celebrated 91 years, so you've got a 91-year movement that doesn't have any governance, that has it's not publicly traded or not held, and there's no you know, corporate executive board that is a solution that is based on passing a basket in rooms everywhere globally, that is helping millions of people. This is a very, very complex individual who suffers from needing that solution, but the solution is very simple in form. And just by following a few simple rules, which is what it addresses in the doctor's opinion, that solution, that remission and that reprieve is offered and and provided for each individual who's willing to follow those steps.

A Simple Daily Formula For Sobriety

Steve Coughran 16:50

Yeah. Well, and I love how you talked about how simple it is. I think about you know the story of Moses, you know, with the children of Israel. And it's like, I'm gonna take this stick or the staff and I'm gonna, you know, put a serpent on it and say, hey, just look look to it and you'll be healed, you know, because all of them are being banned by snakes. You know, I'm simplifying here. And it's like the way was so easy that people didn't do it.

Speaker 2 17:16

Right.

Steve Coughran 17:17

And you know, to your point, like it's not like the the treatment or the solution is complicated, you know, it's just it's so simple, but it's like people just it's it's hard to change.

Speaker 2 17:32

You're right, it is hard to change, and it's hard to get into acceptance of that ongoing daily surrender. But really, like just let's step back from this for a minute. If we have the conception of a power greater than ourself, so my Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ, that's my higher power, and then we have an individual with working knowledge of the steps in our lives that's a mentor, that's a sponsor, so they know the working components of a program of sobriety. And then we go to meetings because we use we drink and drug every day, so we go to a meeting a day, and then we work the 12 steps, and those 12 steps which promote and provide a psychic change and a spiritual awakening, those 12 steps work in our life, and we work those steps with the sponsor, and then we are of service, then we keep what's so freely given by give by giving it back away to others. Those five elements produce and provide a remission and reprieve on a daily basis. There's nothing intricate or complicated or sophisticated about that, but it's about it being done, it's about the footwork behind it on a daily basis to continue to have that ongoing remission and reprieve.

Steve Coughran 18:43

Yeah, just doing it. I mean, and you say that over and over again the footwork, doing it, just taking the action.

Leaving Treatment With A Real Plan

Steve Coughran 18:49

Let's talk about the fear from the addict's perspective. When they're like ready to offboard and leave restore, what does that conversation sound like? Are they hopeful? Are they fearful? Are they worried about falling back into the same patterns and the same traps? Uh, shed a little bit of light here.

Speaker 2 19:08

I think there's always natural trepidation, and I think there should be. You're in a very safe, intentionally set environment, which, you know, I you know this also. I bring a lot of the outside world into restore, and I bring restore to the outside world, and I do that intentionally. So we are able to come alongside the community and help them continue to understand what it's like to live life on life's terms. I think there's got to be a plan. I think there's often got to be continuum of care, whether it's sober living or intensive outpatient programming. I think they're also, or at the very least, like have the onset of like, hey, let's let's make sure that we're focused and dialed in on 90 and 90, 90 meetings in 90 days. I think those things being in place really help the transition. But I think there has to be a natural degree also through this cautionary tale of there being trepidation. And, you know, but we've got to have hope as well. And what I do know is, you know, there's alumni from Restore Steve. They've come in, they've taken to it, they understand this simple program, and they've they've hit the ground running, they're in meetings, they've got a sponsor, they're working those steps, they're a part of, they have gotten sober and remained sober and are sober today as you and I speak. And then you've got all the cautionary tales because we don't shoot our wounded. When you don't put that plan into action, when you don't embrace the fact that this is a program for people who do it, not want it, not need it. It's a program for people who do it. When those things occur, you are in pre-lapse, you head into relapse, and very often you end up dead or in an institution. Or if we're really blessed, we get you back at restore and we're like, okay, again, let's get back to basics. Let's charge the hill. Let's take another run at this. This is gonna work. You've got to do your part, and it takes what it takes.

Questions, Support, And Closing

Steve Coughran 21:07

Yeah, exactly. And there's so many tools out there, there's so many support systems to help you. We want to hear from you though. Like, what are the things that you worry about? Um, what are the questions that you have? Because, you know, Steven shed some light on some of the conversations that are had at the restore house, and uh, we want to hear from you. So you always have somebody you can reach out to. You can share whatever you would like with us at hello at restore detoxcenters.com. Steven, great to do another episode with you today. Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 21:37

Steve, thank you so much for the talking points. If you're out there and you have questions, concerns, thoughts, feelings, we want to hear from you. We love you, we are for you. Everyone have a safe and sober day.