Havana Syndrome: Covert Attack or a Misunderstood Medical Mystery?

**Discussion begins at 4:40**

In late 2016, American diplomats stationed in Havana began reporting something strange.  It often started with a sound, followed by the symptoms: dizziness, nausea, migraines, memory problems, and in some cases, lasting brain injuries.  What began as a handful of mysterious health complaints soon spiraled into an international mystery.   Reports spread from Cuba to embassies and government posts around the world, affecting diplomats, intelligence officers, and their families.  Some experts believe the victims may have been targeted by a secret energy weapon.  Others argue the symptoms could be the result of environmental factors, stress, or even a phenomenon known as mass psychogenic illness.  As investigations unfolded, agencies like the Central Intelligence Agency and the Federal Bureau of Investigation launched inquiries, while Congress demanded answers. Meanwhile, scientists, intelligence officials, and journalists all began debating the same question: Was this a covert attack or a misunderstood medical mystery?  Whether it’s a new form of warfare, an environmental anomaly, or something else entirely, the story of Havana Syndrome sits at the uneasy intersection of espionage, science, and conspiracy.

Transcript

Hey, it's Colleen. Hi, it's Kate, and it's Megan, and we're the three scream queens. Join us each week as we take turns presenting a brand new conspiracy theory or mystery. From shadowy cover ups and unexplained events to viral rabbit holes. We bring the tea. It's piping the facts and the tin foil crowns. Join the conversation, laugh along with us, and question everything. When it's all over. We'll tell you what we think and we'll try to prove it to you. So grab your drink, hit the follow and tune in every Tuesday. Is this thing on? Hey guys. What's up? Welcome. Welcome back. It's a three scream queens again together. And you know what today is? It is Colleen's birthday. Not close. Oh, by the time this airs, it will be Saint Patrick's Day. Saint Patty's day. So happy Saint Patty's day. Happy Saint Patty's Day. My favorite holidays. Or as my son would say, happy Saint me day. So, Patty boy. Yeah. And can we also wish you a belated happy birthday? Twenty nine two Colleen. Yeah. Twenty nine twenty nine. You can do the math on when that that year is that she was born because we're not going to tell you. Oh, okay. Ninety seven. Yeah, I was like, that's easy, man. Not for the kids. Because you know why the kids these days, not their IQ scores, but they're like, oh geez. Yeah, they're on the decline. This is the first generation in which they are dumber than the generations before them. Yeah, they're testing lower than us. I think the screens are those to blame, but keep listening to our podcasts and commenting. This isn't a screen. Yeah. You're listening. It's not a screen. It's not the same. While they're moving their bodies or doing their chores or whatever. Yeah. What do you do when you listen to a podcast? Just a quick poll between the three of us. We know Colleen doesn't listen to podcasts. If I do, it's. I'm driving to Boston. Okay. All right. I'm tired of listening to music. Okay. Okay. When I'm out, like walking place to place, like walking to happy hour to meet people. Oh, yeah. Or like walking to the metro. Ride the metro. I'd always podcast. Yeah. And I listen to podcasts when I am doing the errand, like doing my laundry, cleaning my house. Oh yeah. Yeah, that's what I do. I do, I do podcasting to and from work on my commute. I do podcast when I walk and again with the chores. Sometimes when I'm cooking dinner, it depends. Most of the time it's an audiobook, but a lot of times it's a podcast. So is it time for our drink to drink? Check. Okay. Yeah. What are we having? Estamos viendo algo de Cuba. So Bourbon Boy was our mixologist today. Yeah. Kate found the recipe. Bourbon boy made the cocktail. Yep. It wasn't his preferred alcohol of choice, but, you know, sometimes he can. He could switch it up. So today we're drinking an old Cuban. It's a little Bacardi rum, a little prosecco, some mint leaves, a little simple syrup, a little lime juice and a couple dashes of bitters. And he smoked it for us. He did? Yeah he did. You know, he had to charge it for us. I'm not really a prosecco girl or a rum girl or a rum girl. But you know what? Colleen really likes both of those. Colleen is rubbing prosecco girl. Yeah, and it's her birthday week. So what do you think, Colleen? It's pretty good. Yeah. And and the and the mint leaves make it green. Yeah. Served on ice. Like we made sure there was a lot of ice for Colleen. Yeah. Bourbon boy said I only have one big ice cube. And we said, that's okay. Yeah. But this is a theme drink because we're talking about Cuba. This. Yeah. Cuba. Cuba. You guys know that guy on SNL? That's Cuban? No. He's Dominican. Marcelo, look it up. Look it up. Dominican. He's Dominican. Yes. I definitely thought he was Cuban. Cuban, Dominican, Cuban, Dominican. So we're both right. Yeah. I was gonna fight you. I was like, he's. I've definitely heard his mom say his mom is maybe his mom's from Cuba, but he grew up in the Dominican Republic. Well, yeah, because you know what? You couldn't travel in and out of Cuba for a long time. People were swimming. So we were actually this episode had been researched, but it was not going to be our next episode. But we've had so many people, the fans, so many fans tell us this week we had to cover it. There's sort of some breaking news on this. And so everyone was like, you gotta do it now in this timely fashion. So we're moving it up, we're rearranging. And today we're going to talk about Havana syndrome, the Havana syndrome. In late twenty sixteen, American diplomats stationed in Havana began reporting something strange. It often started with the sound maybe a grinding, buzzing or ringing noise. Then came the symptoms dizziness, nausea, migraines, memory problems and in some cases, lasting brain injuries. What began as a handful of mysterious health complaints soon spiralled into an international mystery. Reports spread from Cuba to embassies and government posts around the world, affecting diplomats, intelligence officers and their families. Some experts believe the victims may have been targeted by a secret energy weapon, while others argue the symptoms could be the result of environmental factors, stress or even a phenomenon known as mass psychogenic illness. As investigations unfolded, agencies like the Central Intelligence Agency and the Federal Bureau of Investigation launched inquiries while Congress demanded answers. Meanwhile, scientists, intelligence officials and journalists all began debating the same question was this a covert attack or a misunderstood medical mystery, whether it's a new form of warfare, an environmental anomaly, or something else entirely. The story of Havana Syndrome sits at the uneasy intersection of espionage, science and conspiracy. Oh. Oh. Do you guys know anything about Havana Syndrome? No. Something about microwaves. I was just gonna say microwaves. Yeah, yeah, there are microwaves. And my. My instinct is after listening to the intro radiation. Okay. Well, my instinct was, remember in Stranger Things where they had that big instrument thing and they would turn it on and then eleven and eight powers would like cease to exist because they couldn't, because they were hearing was like, yeah, it was like messing things up for them. That's what I'm thinking about. Okay. But like on a, it's like, kind of like with dogs where the dogs can hear the high pitched whistle and it really. Oh yeah, there's them. But you can't really like we don't know it's there. Maybe that's something like that. Like it's a subliminal thing. Some dog whistles. I can hear. Well, in Kate's old neighborhood, people had like animal deterrents. Oh, I can always hear those. And we walked by. I could always hear it. Oh, really? Oh my God, it would give me headaches. Yeah. So in twenty sixteen, staff at the US embassy in Havana reported unusual health symptoms, including headaches, dizziness, gait issues, brain fog, tinnitus, sleep problems and nausea. And they reported that these symptoms began after hearing loud or strange sounds that were described as buzzing, grinding or pulsing. Oh, the reports caused a major diplomatic incident with the United States reducing embassy staff and accusing Cuba of failing to protect diplomats, US diplomats, intelligence officers and government staff began reporting cases in other countries as well, including China, Germany, Austria and even the US, and the syndrome became known as Havana syndrome after the location of the initial cluster of cases. MM. So again, twenty sixteen in Havana, that's where we had our first reported cases, right. More than twenty diplomats and their family members reported hearing a loud buzzing or grinding noise in their homes, which preceded head pressure and sudden dizziness and nausea. Doctors actually diagnosed several of these sufferers with mild TBIs, and several of them had to be medically evacuated. Whoa! As a result, the US dramatically reduced its embassy staffing. Then, a year later, in twenty seventeen, a CIA officer in Moscow reported that while stepping out of a hotel room, he suddenly felt an extreme vertigo with severe head pain and difficulty standing. He said that as he walked away from the hotel room door, he felt the symptoms dissipate. This was obviously concerning because this meant that the phenomenon was not isolated to Cuba. It's also a known fact that Russia had historically researched microwave and directed energy technology, and people started to wonder if these were intentional attacks. Wait, I'm sorry. It wasn't just Cuba. Yeah. Where else was it? So then the next year it was in Moscow. Oh, okay. Then in twenty eighteen, an employee in the US consulate in China was staying in a hotel room and reported abnormal sounds, which again preceded a strange pressure in the head and cognitive issues. Doctors also diagnosed him with a mild TBI. Eventually, other consulate workers in China reported similar symptoms and were evacuated. This is all scary, right? It is, but it gets scarier. Oh, because there was an episode of this in Washington, DC. What? Yes. Who was targeted when? In twenty nineteen. Oh. A national security officer was walking near the ellipse, which is just outside the white House, and developed sudden dizziness, disorientation and intense headache. She said it was like this piercing feeling on the side of my head, and it was like I remembered it was on the right side of my head and I got like vertigo. I was unsteady, I was I felt nauseated, I was somewhat disoriented. And I was just I remember thinking, don't fall down the stairs. You've got to find your ground again and steady yourself. The piercing feeling lingered as she walked by an entrance to the West Wing. Oh. In twenty twenty one, a large number of American diplomats in Vienna, which, by the way, fun fact is nicknamed the spy capital of Europe because of all the intelligence agencies that operate there. I thought, oh, Virginia. Yeah. Vienna. Yes. No. Austria. So they reported unexplained sounds followed by headaches, dizziness and cognitive issues. And dozens of cases were investigated. So those were kind of a few of the well-known cases. But others suspected Havana syndrome attacks span the globe, including Bulgaria, France, Georgia, Poland, Serbia, Switzerland, United Kingdom, Australia, Colombia, Kyrgyzstan. Been there? Yeah. Syria, Taiwan and Uzbekistan. In her twenty ten book, well before the first case of Havana Syndrome was reported six years later, First Lady Laura Bush. We love her. Love Laura Bush. Librarian. Oh my gosh, I really think probably a librarian would be like my dream job. Dream job. Like, if I could marry a trust fund guy and then just be a librarian, you have to be like, so quiet. I know that's your biggest concern. I'm like, I don't think you'd like it. You'd be inside all day. Yeah, you're probably right. But most libraries have a lot of windows. I think you'd like it. Maybe part time. Oh, if you got to, like, exercise before work, you also. You know what? You would get to sleep in. I'd be a great children's librarian because no library books for, like, nine or ten, right? That's true. Yeah. You would be a great children's librarian. You would? They're so thirsty for me. Except when she bought a book for her friend's kid, and it was about a cat who was in the Civil War, and she got home and she opened it. But the cat was on the wrong side of the Civil War. So that was the end of that. Read the full books before buying them. So back to Laura Bush. Remember when Bush was back? Bush is back. You keep that in there. Laura Bush said that. In Germany in two thousand and seven, she was at the G8 summit. Aha. She said. By the afternoon of June seventh, I could barely stand up. My head inexplicably throbbed. I was horribly dizzy and nauseated. I went to bed, pulled up the covers, and for several hours felt so awful that I might die right there in the hotel room. Nearly a dozen members of our delegation were stricken. For most of us, the primary symptoms were nausea or dizziness. But one of our military aides had difficulty walking, and a white House staffer lost all hearing in one ear in total. By twenty twenty two, there had been over fifteen hundred reports of Americans experiencing symptoms consistent with Havana syndrome. MM. All right, so you guys have already decided you think this could be my faves? I have follow up questions. Yes. Ask them. Are all of these people that have been experiencing it in very high stress jobs. It sounds like it. They're all it's almost all like CIA, FBI assets, intelligence people. It's just that these symptoms are so nonspecific. Yeah. I mean, I feel like they are similar across the board, but it's hard to say, like literally like you could be dehydrated. That's what I was thinking. Have I don't know, though. Debilitating headaches. I'm like, they sound like they all skip a meal. Yeah, exactly. High stress job. I don't know that the idea that they all say they welts. Some heard something, some didn't. But like that, many of the stories they heard something. They had this sudden onset of these terrible symptoms. And they say that if they like walked, it seemed to be like if they moved position like away from it, like it seemed to be that something was targeting a specific area. So like maybe they would approach something, the symptoms get worse, and then they would keep walking and they'd get better. And so it was the idea of like they were getting in and out of range of whatever was causing this. Yeah. I'm also hearing each person that has experienced it was like the only one in that spot to experience it. No, I mean, Laura Bush said that everybody was with her from that same evening. Some of these people are saying that like, like the people in Cuba are like, my wife and kids were at home. And I said that this happened. So is this supposed to be like some sort of bioterrorism? That is the question. Hey, is it really is that the right phrase for it? Bioterrorism. I mean, if you're affecting someone's health, right? Isn't that right? You're right. I was just thinking it was like, not a yeah, I know, I know what you mean. Like not a not a microbe. The idea is to debilitate people with medical by causing medical distress. Yeah. I can't picture it being so, like, targeted. Like I could see it affecting like a city, but like one room of people. I don't, I don't understand how well, maybe it depends on like how far. the waves can reach, you know. Microwaves are a type of wave. We think of microwaves as the microwave. But on the spectrum, it is a type of wave. It's like a it's like a UV wave. I am so happy that you mentioned that. Yeah, I get that focused. Do you think? I mean, it's focused in the microwave when you heat up a meal. So let's talk about that for a second. Do you ever think about that? One of the theories is that someone, the Russians maybe had directed energy or microwave weapons. Okay, so researchers, intelligence officials, some of them, because again, there's a lot of disagreement about what is happening to people here. So some have suggested that a microwave or radio frequency energy device could cause these symptoms by affecting the brain. So I said, hey Google. Oh, Dougal, can you explain microwaves for dummies? And he sent me a link and I said, that's not what we want. Don't you guys worry? We have corrected him. Yeah, we said we don't want links. We want an audio message. Yeah, we want you giving us a lecture. So I went to ChatGPT on this one. Okay. I don't usually use ChatGPT for research. Yeah, but I said ChatGPT. Please dumb down microwaves for, you know, idiots who are trying to understand, like, X-ray technology. I'm like, trying to look back at AP physics from the tenth grade, eleventh grade I, and I don't I didn't get it. And I know that we had a very heated debate in our moon landing episode because you girls could not understand how microwaves got us to the moon. Well, I think the microwaves is how they transmitted the the video, allegedly the video from the moon. Yeah. Guys were like, you're telling me the technology we use to heat up our breakfast is the same technology that got us on the moon and transmit it. There was one time where I just got mad at Megan and I said, okay, I believe you now. This is not fun. Yeah, actually, I remember that. Yeah. Well, who did you just tell me? Is the most likely to win a debate? Virgos. Probably because our refusal to give in. Well, yeah. And also, you like the receipts? You know, probably Virgos are never going to get into an argument that they can't win. They know they they know when to say when. Um. Yeah. As the housewives would say, receipts, proof timeline. That's what I want. That's right. That's exactly what you want, actually. But, uh, Pisces was at the bottom. So sorry to Pisces Queen, but I was shocked that Taurus was in the middle. In the middle? I would have gone. Are you? Because it's who to win an argument. I feel like you would win purely out of stubbornness. And yeah, although you just said that you once gave in because you didn't want to deal with me anymore. Yeah. That's true. So what did ChatGPT tell me about microwaves? Okay, so on the electromagnetic spectrum, we have, as you mentioned, radio waves, microwaves, infrared, visible light, ultraviolet X-rays, gamma rays. Yes, these are all waves made of oscillating electrical and magnetic fields moving through space. But they all so as they describe it, think of it as like wiggles, right? So they all wiggle at differing speeds. That's the frequency. Yeah. Oh. Scientific wiggle. Yeah. Right. So radio waves wiggle slow. Yeah. Microwaves a little faster. Yes. Than visible light than X-rays. Yes. So, do you know Kate might actually know this? Do you know how microwaves work when it comes to our food? Inside out, it vibrates the food at the frequency to heat it up. You are very close. So when microwaves pass through the water molecules in our food. Oh, the electric fields flip billions of times per second, causing the water molecules to rotate to keep up. So it's like boiling from the inside. Oh, so all these twisting, all the twisting of these water molecules caused friction, which turns into heat. Yes. So I thought that was interesting. That is a microwave works. Yeah, but but now if you think about that. Yeah. And you translate it to the human body. Think of how much water is in the human body. And can you imagine my weight liking on our body weight? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Sitting around causing friction. And then that causing potentially symptoms that we talked about. That makes sense. It dehydration. Mhm. True. Hold on. Headaches. Maybe this is why Megan would be most immune. Immune to the microwaves. How come it like most affected. It gets hot in the middle first. No, no, no. Sometimes it heats up in different places. Yeah, because it's not hot in the middle first. Like if you eat a frozen meal, you know how like the edges all kind of get hot and then you're sort of like a frozen center? Yeah. I never ate frozen meals. I know you would never. I never, not even in college. We used to get these like, fancy kids cuisines. It was a special treat. Yeah, like a cosmic brownie and stuff. Mhm. My mom never bought them for my mom. My mom right now is going to be like. To be clear, Carrie hustled and she came home and made us dinner every night. She was not just feeding us junk all the time. No, let's be clear. My mom made us SpaghettiOs. So that's like the equivalent. Oh, I love SpaghettiOs. Yeah. With meatballs or no, uh, sometimes with meatballs. But I liked the ones without meatballs, mostly. Carrie made really nice meals, and then I ate yogurt because I didn't want what she was making. Yeah, Joey, it's like my daughter. The idea is that these direct energy or microwave weapons would use concentrated electromagnetic waves to deliver energy in a very focused beam. So this theory gained attention because certain lab experiments showed microwaves can produce audible sensations in the head. Researchers noted that several reported symptoms could theoretically match a phenomenon called the microwave auditory effect, which is known as the Frey effect, and this occurs when microwave radiation interacts with brain tissue, causing people to perceive sounds so it can perceive they don't exist. They are real to the person who experiences them, but they are not actually making sound. And so the people will perceive sounds like clicking, buzzing or knocking. And this tracks with reports of some of the victims that they heard strange noises just before they experienced their symptoms. Whoa. Some victims showed brain changes on scans in early studies, and we know that during the Cold War, both the US and USSR were experimenting with microwave bioeffects. Moscow's signal was a Cold War incident where the United States embassy in Moscow was exposed to low level microwave radiation for years. Between the nineteen fifties and the nineteen seventies, during the Cold War, the USSR would use technology to irradiate the American embassy as part of an eavesdropping operation, so they're believed to have caused direct harm to the health of American citizens stationed there. With three US ambassadors to Moscow Dying of cancer in their sixties. Wow. Is this why everyone says that microwaves will give you cancer? Perhaps. Yeah. There was a New York Times article in nineteen seventy six in which they reported that after fifteen years of denials, the Russians privately admitted to using microwaves to counter the array of listening devices on the roof. We know that back in the fifties, then, Vice President Nixon was staying at the ambassador's residence in Moscow, and during a Secret Service sweep, they detected high levels of radiation. The agents, because they knew they were probably being eavesdropped on, loudly complained about dirty tricks by their hosts. And they said the radiation quickly settled down. So they were like, whoa. It felt like someone was listening. Got busted. Shut it off. What did I say in the beginning? What did you say in the beginning? Your symptoms sound like radiation. The National Security Archive notes that, quote, high level U.S. efforts to press Soviet leaders to halt the radiation activity began in nineteen sixty seven and continued under four administrations into the Carter era. The microwave transmissions, believed to be related to bugging devices hidden in the embassy walls, continued for decades after they were first detected when the US chancery opened in the early nineteen fifties. In April twenty twelve, the Russian defence minister announced that as part of the state arms procurement programme for twenty eleven to twenty twenty, they would develop weapons based on direct energy and psychotronics based on new physics principles so direct energy weapons, geophysical weapons, wave energy weapons, genetic weapons and psychotronic weapons. In March of twenty eighteen, Putin said Russia has all reasons to believe that we are a step ahead of other countries in creating prospective weapons based on new physical principles. I mean, isn't that the whole premise of the Cold War, too? It's just like rad has always been. Like, we know. Yeah, we're better. Yeah. And then they just have nothing to back it up. So obviously, there's speculation that Russia's military intelligence service may have developed portable microwave devices capable of disrupting the brain. However, we had no at this point because there's breaking news here. No confirmed weapon has ever been recovered and symptoms did vary widely. So that's the that's the big theory. Okay. Early speculation blamed a sonic or ultrasonic weapon, but many scientists said that sound alone could not explain all those reported injuries. So that's kind of been debunked. Okay. And then there's a couple of alternate theories. So US diplomats who were in Cuba with like the initial Havana syndrome, right. They released an audio recording. Again, I'm going to say that like if you believe the microwave theory, again, it goes back to like the noise people heard was like a perceived noise. It was not a noise. It wasn't like some it's not like a lot of people heard it. It's like in their brain they heard it. Correct. So I feel like if you hit like record on a tape recorder. Yeah, I would think someone can correct me out there, but that it wouldn't pick up this noise perceived in your brain, right? It's like an auditory hallucination, right? Yeah. Nonetheless, these US diplomats said that they recorded this noise, and biologists studied them and analyzed the high pitched buzzing noises, and they concluded that the sound was like just life. Just like, well, a sort of. No, no, no, it's a little more interesting than that. Oh, oh, the call of the Indies. Short tailed cricket. Oh, the frequency, rhythm and pulse pattern matched and echo patterns were consistent with crickets chirping indoors near walls doing their mating call. Right. Oh. Hold on. So they were hearing crickets the whole time. But hold on. That still doesn't explain the symptoms. Mhm. You know what? This this actually kind of makes me mad because I'm like, this is the biggest. Like gaslighting. Yes. Yeah. Like it's just the crickets. You're all crazy. Yeah. Have you guys ever heard foxes mating? Oh my God. Yes. And is it not the most terrifying? It is. It sounds like children. It sounds like children screaming for their lives. I feel like sometimes it's terrifying. At night in my neighborhood. You'll hear them. Yeah, and it sounds like someone is being murdered. Yeah. It's such a horrible sound. So that was just my side. That's like, at one time I went to go outside to start my car, to go to work where we used to live. And I swear I heard a woman like screaming, like in agony. And I ran inside and I said, Bourbon boy, you need to go outside. There's literally I'm so I'm terrified. Someone's like being tortured. Picture this. I lived alone during the pandemic and had to listen to it every night. Oh my God, there were so many in my neighborhood. It was awful. So if you believe this theory, again, it doesn't explain the medical symptoms, but it suggested that that weapon noise, that sound, people kept reporting. Maybe it was just misidentified insects. What else was happening in Havana in twenty sixteen? Kate, do you know? You know, you have experience with this. Was there a rampant virus? Zika. Yeah. That's right. Because, you know, when I was pregnant with my first child and bourbon boy traveled to Cuba, actually. And then we weren't allowed to have relations for the last ten weeks of my pregnancy. And I even consulted the ID doctor at our hospital. He was like, let me get back to you. And he did get back to me. And then we got creative. So the Cuban government was aggressively spraying chemicals to combat the virus, and diplomatic residences were frequently being fumigated. Yes. So this theory is was all of this pesticide exposure? Oh, that makes sense. Think about that too. So pesticide exposure can cause all the things experience dizziness, memory problems and neurologic irritation. But it also causes what? What did you say? Frothing at the mouth, sweating, crying. Excessive salivation. Loss of consciousness. Seizures, coma and death. And those symptoms were not experienced. So may you only get those symptoms if you have a severe exposure. Well, I mean, obviously coma and Coleman death is like the last, but I would think you'd have like the yeah, Tyrion and the salivation and all that. Yeah I guess. And then mass psychogenic illness was another theory. Okay. This is the rapid spread of physical symptoms among a group without an identifiable cause so often precipitated by collective stress or fear. So think about like during Covid, when patients were hyper aware of like any feeling. Yeah. So, so something happens in Cuba. Maybe it's, you know, pesticide exposure, whatever. Now there's like mumblings in the intelligence world that there might be these weapons. People just become obsessed, they become hyper aware, and then they are like, wait, did I just feel nauseous? Do I have tinnitus? Right? And you start to panic if you believe this mass psychogenic illness. A lot of scientists think that the stress of working, which you kind of touched on, Colleen, like the stress of working in intelligence or diplomatic roles, combined with the rumors of the attacks, could have sort of triggered this type of reaction in some clusters. And when we talk about psychogenic illness in general, we see this even every day, right? Like patients come in and they're having seizures. Okay, put them on EEG. The EEG does not show seizure activity, but like the patient is like, I, I'm, I didn't cause this like I'm having like, it's a, it's a true physical manifestation of a yeah, of a psychogenic issue. Right? So it is real to the person experiencing it. And it's not them faking it. And it's like, that's what's happening here is like the stress and anxiety and everything. When they get that, do they respond to medication? Uh, they don't respond to usual anti-epileptics. Okay, that was my question. Usually it's like therapy and other meds anyway. Okay, so inside the US government, the issue has been highly controversial with conflicting reports. There were leaks in the late twenty tens that the FBI and CIA considered Russia to be the main suspect, and an investigative reporter claimed, quote, the most compelling evidence came from publicly available data, such as mobile phone tracking, information that allowed CIA investigators to deduce the whereabouts of Russian intelligence officers and place them in close physical proximity to the CIA officers from the time they've been attacked, when they were in Poland, Georgia, Australia and Taiwan. In each case, individuals believed to be Russian Federal Security Service or military intelligence agencies were within range of the CIA officers who had been hit in twenty nineteen, and two of the incidents. Location data apparently showed Russian Federal Security Service agents in the same hotel at the same time, their targets experienced the onset of symptoms, so that's suspicious. NBC news reported that a source said the CIA tracked mobile phone data and found that some Russian intelligence agents who had worked on microwave weapons programs were present in the same cities at the same time that the CIA officers suffered these symptoms. In December twenty twenty, the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine released a report commissioned by the State Department that concluded that, quote, the most plausible mechanism was directed pulsed Radiofrequency energy aka microwaves, microwaves. The lead investigator reported that, quote, the view of some of the world's most renowned neurologists was that among the various possible mechanisms that would explain these cases, there was one that stood out, and that was the pulse directed radiofrequency energy, or microwave energy. In other words, it could be focused on one room and not another room in the same house. That's the nature of how this kind of energy can be delivered, right? Like a microwave. So people seem to be like, yeah, this sounds twenty nineteen, twenty twenty. This is what we think is happening. Then in March twenty twenty three, a declassified intelligence report from the Intelligence Community Experts Panel on Anomalous Health incidents, because that's what we call these anomalous health incidents. Uh-uh, uh, is like government's term for Havana syndrome. So then in March twenty twenty three, a declassified intelligence report from the Intelligence Community Experts Panel on Anomalous Health Incidents found that the most likely cause of the range of illnesses may be pulsed electromagnetic energy that could penetrate buildings using commercial off the shelf technology with devices that are easily portable and concealable and can be powered by standard electricity or batteries. Despite all of these reports, everyone's in agreement. Same year twenty twenty three, a joint intelligence review concluded that most cases were unlikely caused by a foreign weapon, an environmental or medical explanations were more plausible. So it pretty much said that, like, there's probably a small number of cases that we really can't identify cause and they might have a different cause, but the majority of these cases are all just environmental or medical explanation. MM. That sounds fake. So it seems like someone's backtracking. Uh, it seems like the it's fake news. Yes. They figured it out. Yeah, I think they figured out that we know that. They don't want us to know that we know. The NIH has reported that MRI findings were unremarkable in these patients, but many of them report the presence of biomarkers in their blood consistent with TBI, along the lines of what you would get if you had been involved in an IED attack. There was an NIH study that reported no difference in MRIs between these patients and the controls. And for the controls, they used healthy government workers in similar jobs. So they said the MRI showed no statistically significant difference in brain volume structure or white matter, and they reported no significant difference in cognitive tests, but noted that those who reported to Havana syndrome reported more fatigue, PTSD and depression, and about twenty eight percent reported persistent postural perceptual dizziness, or pbd, which is a vestibular disorder. So you get non-spinning, vertigo, gait issues, and dizziness. What are you guys thinking at this point? I'm thinking it's the microwaves. Why would we're being gaslit? Why would the government not want us to know? Because they're probably using it themselves. Yeah. Bingo. So sixty minutes has been reported on Havana syndrome for years. And they just released I think it was like their fourth episode on this, which is what we met a CBS employee yesterday who said, you guys gotta cover this. Yeah. They just reported that an undercover Department of Homeland Security operation funded by the Pentagon, revealed that agents had purchased a fifteen million dollars miniaturized microwave device from a Russian criminal network. Whoa! The device is allegedly silent and can be controlled remotely with the ability to penetrate several hundred feet through walls. The device released electromagnetic waves, which pulses to target soft brain tissue, leading to neurological attacks. Because you know where there's a lot of water. Our brain. Mhm. Mhm. They then use this weapon in a US military lab, where they have been testing its effects on rats and sheep for the last year now, and have found injuries that appear consistent with those allegedly suffered by Havana syndrome victims. So this all comes from whistleblowers. Our government has not come out and said this happened. This is what these whistleblowers on sixty minutes are claiming. Okay okay okay, okay, okay. So our government bought it from a Russian. Think of like the Russian mafia type situation. So our why did our government acquire this to to test it. Like to see if they were using it on us or it's really they're using their testing on rats and sheep. Yes. To use it on other people. Well, they may have used other people because reports from Caracas, Venezuela are that armed forces experienced nausea and vertigo immediately before the attack, before we went in and got their president correct, the Venezuelan said that they heard low flying helicopters, then experienced symptoms and then were attacked. So they had like nausea and vertigo before. Why are we believing the Venezuelans? Why are we believing them? We don't have to believe them. I'm just telling you that this is something that they've alleged, okay? Which could be BS, could be like they're embarrassed if we are to believe that the US bought this weapon and they have to search it in a lab from. This is because we know the Russians have it. We don't. We didn't have this technology. And we were like, we know the Russians have the technology. So our government actually conspired with the Russian mafia. Yeah. Organized crime in Russia to acquire this. Paid them fifteen million dollars to get this little portable weapon that they're like they've been using on Americans. They're like, we want to see it. They've been studying it. Maybe they've been using get it all the Russians have it. Well, Cuba got it from Russia. Cuba and Russia are allies who they've been working together. So potentially. But again, it's not. We talked about Cuba, but that's just where the first case was. These cases have existed. I mean, again, there's a ton of cases in China, right? We definitely have Russian assets that are giving us info. Yeah. I don't doubt that. Okay, continue. Have you seen have you seen the show homeland? But anyway, this Redditor posted and here's, here's a crazy thought, okay, what if the only antidote to this device was the Covid vaccine is a tin foil hat. Oh, what if the only way you could protect your brain. Full circle. Full circle. But I'm like. But we can't put foil in a microwave, right? Why do we put foil would light up. It causes it to catch on fire. Yeah. So I don't know, but maybe then that you would know because here's my question. All the silverware in these rooms, how are they not getting hot? That is a good question. All the metal around, all the metal rod is a good question. Okay. Here. This is my other thing, huh? Just shit on the media, Megan. But I think I am not one hundred percent swayed by the sixty minute documentary why We Gotta Shit on America? He says we're shitting on America. Well, this this whole, like, sixty minutes, they're like, no, America bought it from Russia. Okay, now we're using it. Yeah, because we went into Venezuela. And why are we believing the Venezuelans? That's my question. Okay. Take the Venezuelans out of it. Okay? Okay. I don't know how you how you could think that that would be out of the realm for America to buy this to be like, we know Russians have this weapon. We would definitely do that. Yeah. You're acting like I understand. You're like, why are you shooting on America? I'm like, America's definitely doing. I mean, I'm listen, I'm a veteran. I love America. America's definitely doing fucking crazy things. I top secret, I don't disagree, I don't disagree. And what's the point? Yeah. But now well, like, because I feel like it's like, well, you know, who's doing it actually. And that we have proof. Proof is America. But I think America, America's only doing this fifty years after everyone else is doing it. This has been going on since the sixties. So we're we're eighty years later. So it's yeah, I don't I don't think it's like, you know, who's behind this the whole time was the Americans. I think that they're like, they know that their people have been victims and they could be like, no, nothing's going on. It's fine. It's not happening. It's just the crickets. And, and you guys are all have psychogenic medical conditions. Yeah, but really, they're doing secret things. Also, Kate, for you to be like. Like, why would why are you sharing America? Let me just take you back. If anyone has not listened to our Memorial Day episode, there's a whole episode of ways our country abused its its military personnel and intelligence agents. And and people got injured doing classified projects and then were like neglected. You know, they're like, that didn't happen. We're not going to pay you guys anything. It's fine. So we've done sketchy things to our people in the past. I know that we've done it. I'm not saying we've we haven't done it. Okay. I'm just annoyed. My other question was with this Venezuela. Here was my issue with the Venezuela story. They say they heard low flying helicopters. Then they had nausea, vomiting, then they were attacked. So I'm trying to figure out how would pilots be able to pilot. Like I feel like a drone because they're saying that like in, in these stories, like in the hotels and embassies and stuff, that it's like, these could be like remotely used. But I'm like, if you're flying into Venezuela, someone is flying that plane. How are they not experiencing these symptoms? We'll do the waves, not go away from who's shooting it. No, it seems like it would be radiating all over the place, right? I don't know, sorry. That's why when I was asking earlier about how targeted it is. I would think you could shoot it from the plane without being affected then. But I would think if they're saying that they have special helmets, if there's maybe tinfoil hats. Yeah. Maybe two if they're because these stories are that people are like, I walk like the girl who's at the white House, right? She's like, I walked and you have to just keep walking it like it gets worse and worse and better and better. And the whole thing is like, they, they believe there's like a, the closer you are to this wave, the more symptoms you feel. So I feel like if you have this on your helicopter, you're the closest person to the. But is the wave not going away from you? No, I think it radiates out like a globe. It But you're. But you're saying it's not targeted. Wait, wait. If my machine is here, isn't it to something. And it just the waves go one way. That's what I was picturing this whole time. But wouldn't you think that the waves, as soon as it creates it, it goes anywhere. But then we would be seeing crowds of people being affected and not small groups. Yeah, but like, but waves in general, they don't like our sound waves. They project it's the same wavelength. But if we're like in the center of a circle and you're saying we're the center and it's all going out, it's all going out to the circumference, right of the circle, right? Then I'm like the pi. If my contraption is right here and I am the pilot, it's and it's, it's going out. I am the closest person. Yes, I agree, I'm on your team. Yeah. So either we have some sort of technology to block it, which would to me would be like a helmet of some sort or they were going in on drones. I guess if they're just having unmanned, because the way they're doing it again on the streets is like these unmanned again, it's like we are able to put this contraption here in an embassy, B a block down the street and like remotely. I'm not turning it off. And I was picturing it like a gun. It's a silent device that is controlled remotely. Okay. And it can penetrate several hundred feet through walls. So a pilot does make no sense then? Honestly, it's a genius like weapon. And then they can just be like, you are all crazy. What are you talking about? We didn't do anything to you. It's genius and terrifying. It is terrifying. I think the biggest thing is you think about this. If they have this, what's to stop someone from going into, like, a football stadium? Yeah. And being like. And then fifty thousand people, eighty thousand people just brain fried. Yeah, yeah. So in general, again, the government is despite having some government reports that like are like this probably was caused by microwaves. The official government word is no, that's not what happened. Despite that, in twenty twenty one, Biden signed the Havana Act, which provides a non-taxable one time lump sum to current or former federal employees or dependents who had a qualifying brain injury after January one, twenty sixteen. So they get a one time payment, which is seventy five to one hundred percent of the base pay. So generally, they're getting one hundred and forty to one hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars. But that's, I think at one hundred percent to qualify for that higher end one hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars, you have to be unemployable and require full time caregiver. And I gotta be honest, if you are requiring a full time caregiver one hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars times one is not going to last you very long. But I also will say that definitely recently, like how many veterans do you know who are not qualifying for VA benefits? You, I feel like you used to have to like have gone to war and lost a leg or something, right? Now I feel like, like if you have any kind of respiratory illness and you served in a certain location. They're like, we're not. Yeah, we're just gonna give it to you. We don't know. They know that they're probably that. Yeah. Or like, like breathing in fecal matter. And I think for the most part now almost every veteran I know is qualifying for something maybe ten percent or whatever, right. But I feel like compared to in the past, they seem to be much more generous, right? With, with the disability pay. And so I'm like, so maybe them saying, we're going to pay you this one time lump sum, it could be them being like, we're embarrassed and we're just trying to shut people up. Or it could just be them being like, we really don't know what happened. And so, and we can't prove we're just gonna give you something. And there are and have there been any cases where people are like that debilitated and they need a caregiver? Well, I mean, I feel like there must be if there was from from the Havana, from the waves, I don't know that. Yeah. From from the waves. It sounds like people have recovered. It's not like it's like lasting brain damage. Right. Well, it's saying that the, the symptoms that they're having because again, they're like, if we look at an MRI, we don't see a difference, but we do see these people who are like, I have tinnitus, I never had that, or I have like brain fog or whatever. That doesn't sound to me like someone who needs a full time caregiver, right? But that's just how that's how it's written. When I go to the government webpage to investigate, how are people getting and how are they proving that they were exposed to? It's just saying anyone who received a qualifying grant, which I think is probably like, yeah, a brain injury while serving, whether that's like in the government. Oh, but not correlated to this microwave weapon. Well, I think the point is it's supposed to cover that. Oh, okay. It was like that's why it's called the Havana Act. Yeah. Like if you're because they were saying and these people were coming home, these people were initially having evidence of TBIs, okay, like they were checking their biomarkers, right? And there's like, there are biomarkers in your brain when you have a TBI, that blood brain barrier is disrupted. And so some of those biomarkers end up in your blood, but they shouldn't be in your blood. And so when you have that, they're like, oh, you had a TBI, right? So anyway, my point is that I think they have they had evidence that a TBI existed, but when they looked at long term effects, they said the MRIs were not any different. And so like, not like CTE. Yes. Correct. Although the CTE show up on MRI only on an autopsy. Oh, I guess yeah. Because of the Alzheimer's. Yeah. It's like Alzheimer's. Yeah. Do you have an example of the sound? You know what that's my other issue with this is that the sound is always described like not always, but there's it's different. Like sometimes it's chirping, sometimes it's a buzzing. Sometimes it's a banging. Yeah. Can you play a sound of the cricket? I don't like that sound. Yeah, that would freak me out. What is your what is your overall thought here? It sounds like they're using bioterrorism on people. Okay, so despite despite all of your really good like your questioning attitude. Well, my questioning attitude is how do the how does the silverware not catch on fire? Those are those are important questions for me because you can't put certain things in microwaves because they do catch on fire. So that's something, a question that I would like to add. My other question is what are the sources that sixty minutes have? And you said they're whistleblowers, but why did they become why? Why is that source believable and trustworthy? I mean, I believe that the symptoms these people are having happened, and I believe that this could happen. But I guess my question is like, why is it suddenly believable? Because sixty minutes. Well, the whistleblower was Greg Edgren, who was a retired Army lieutenant colonel, and he was in charge of the Pentagon investigation. I thought the whole point about being a whistleblower is that you're anonymous. Yeah. Me too. No, because, like, what's his name was a whistleblower. Usually they're not. Usually they come out because you have to be like, I know I'm not just lying like Edward Snowden. Oh, yeah. Yeah, sorry about that. In the sixty minutes documentary, they said that this guy Greg, Lieutenant Colonel Ed Green, in addition to other former officials, uh, are claiming that there's a massive CIA cover up, uh, happening, you know, to avoid acknowledging a foreign attack, which, again, I think it's his. What was his motivation to do this? Protect the people getting exposed? Probably. Here's my thing. It's believable that this type of weapon would be created. It's believable that like Russia and Cuba collaborated. It's believable that the US would obtain the resources to recreate it themselves. I just don't think every person who's reporting these experiences is experiencing the same. Like there's too many variations. Variations. Yeah. Well, three hundred and thirty as of twenty twenty four, over three hundred and thirty US officials got reimbursement or under that Havana Act. Um, so yeah, at least we at least have three hundred and thirty. I told you they investigated over one thousand five hundred people. Yeah. It's not even debilitated. Just is like they suffered from it. They didn't get one hundred percent. Oh. Oh, I thought you meant three hundred. Had one hundred percent. No, it's seventy five to one hundred percent of your annual pay in one payment. I'm like, and if you maybe were someone who experienced this twice, you only get the one number. Yeah, the one pay. Anyway, I think we're going to hear more about this. I think this is why so many people said you should cover this week is because it shouldn't be written off. Sixty minutes just came out this month. And so now as a result, there have been calls within Congress to address reopen this. And so I think there's going to be hearings now and we're gonna probably learn more. Okay. It should not be written off. I'll have my tinfoil near me. Yeah. But we need to figure out if that's better or worse for us. Yeah. Should I wear the tinfoil on my little machine that can boil the freaking water in your brain? That's terrifying. It's like, are we gonna become scrambled eggs? Assuming they're describing it. right? So we all believe this happened. We have some questions, but we know the technology. We know how microwaves work. No. But like, is it a small device? You know what I mean? Like those kind of details. And then what if we don't really know what bigger devices like what does that mean? Yeah. And then they just leave it on for like, they put, they microwave you for like an hour. That's a long time. That's terrifying. Guys, just a reminder, don't forget to check out our Facebook and Instagram pages at three Scheme Queens. That's the number three scheme queens. All one word. We're also on Reddit. Same username. If you want to check out our website, go to three queens dot com and you can find links to our social media accounts, our Buzzsprout page, all of our episodes, additional content, and our contact page where you can engage with us and share any updates on the topics that we have discussed. Let us know how we're doing and what you want to hear next. There are also opportunities to financially support us with links to buy us a cup of coffee and links to our merch store. As always, if you choose not to financially support us, we appreciate the follows, the downloads, the listens, the likes. All right. Great. Uh, yeah. So if you're interested in this conversation, uh, and you think you have three people in mind that you're like, uh, they would also be interested in this conversation or if they have been a recipient of the donated money from the government and the Havana Act, take out your phone and text this episode to those people and then scroll on down. Leave us a comment, leave us a five star review. Um, share this with your friends and family, interact with us on our social media platforms and yeah. Megan. Yeah. I think I'm also going to ask drew about a good friend about the medal and if he can give us an answer, maybe I'll clip that in here. Yeah. Could we wear the hat or not? Yeah. Should we wear the hat? Why is the silverware not frying? Right. Why are people's watches? People aren't like my suddenly burn my wrist, my earrings or something like that. Like that's weird. Yeah. Okay. Question. We're gonna find out. Yeah. And if we don't find out from Google. But you're like a physicist, let us know. Let us know. Um, it depends what kind of wave they're using. I mean, microwaves, radiation, infrared is all pretty close in the spectrum, but assuming they're using microwaves, not some sonic weapons, I don't think metal would affect it. I'm not sure. Um, I mean, it's just meant to heat up the liquid in you or do other things and, you know, if targeted correctly and all shouldn't be hitting the metal tin foil is not going to help you from that, but it will help you from other radio waves and stuff. But you will look and be a crazy person. And we'll see you guys next Tuesday. See you next Wednesday. See you next Tuesday.