Strap in for a time capsule adventure, as Ted Ansani of Material Issue takes us back, on an episode thick with nostalgia. He recounts tales of how a couple of Columbia College Chicago music enthusiasts, and drummer Mike Zelenko, turned into a band that left an indelible mark on the power-pop landscape. We talk beginnings, the transition from drumsticks to bass strings, and the twists with Mercury Records. Ted's memories are a rare tour pass to the early '90s, offering an insider perspective on creating hits that outlasted their era.
Reminisce and groove with us as we explore the quirks behind the making of anthems like "Valerie Loves Me" and "Diane," tracks that continue to resonate with fans across the globe. Ted's reflections on the documentary "Out of Time: The Material Issue Story" provide an unexpected depth, while we also celebrate the joy of fans shouting back the lyrics to "Very First Lie" at shows, a testament to Material Issue's enduring connection with their audience.
Yet, the episode takes a poignant turn as we reflect on the band's struggle to navigate the grunge-dominated waters of the '90s music scene and the tragic loss of frontman Jim Ellison. The conversation highlights the resilience of Material Issue and the bittersweet moments that punctuated their journey. Through the highs of hearing their song "Renee Remains the Same" on the radio, to the lows of the industry's fickle nature, we honor the legacy of a band that, against all odds, captured the hearts of power-pop aficionados and left behind melodies that still echo in the hearts of listeners. Join us for a heartfelt tribute to Material Issue, a band that rocked hard and left us with a soundtrack for the ages.
Please Like and Follow our Facebook page Music In My Shoes.
You can contact us at musicinmyshoes@gmail,com.
Strap in for a time capsule adventure, as Ted Ansani of Material Issue takes us back, on an episode thick with nostalgia. He recounts tales of how a couple of Columbia College Chicago music enthusiasts, and drummer Mike Zelenko, turned into a band that left an indelible mark on the power-pop landscape. We talk beginnings, the transition from drumsticks to bass strings, and the twists with Mercury Records. Ted's memories are a rare tour pass to the early '90s, offering an insider perspective on creating hits that outlasted their era.
Reminisce and groove with us as we explore the quirks behind the making of anthems like "Valerie Loves Me" and "Diane," tracks that continue to resonate with fans across the globe. Ted's reflections on the documentary "Out of Time: The Material Issue Story" provide an unexpected depth, while we also celebrate the joy of fans shouting back the lyrics to "Very First Lie" at shows, a testament to Material Issue's enduring connection with their audience.
Yet, the episode takes a poignant turn as we reflect on the band's struggle to navigate the grunge-dominated waters of the '90s music scene and the tragic loss of frontman Jim Ellison. The conversation highlights the resilience of Material Issue and the bittersweet moments that punctuated their journey. Through the highs of hearing their song "Renee Remains the Same" on the radio, to the lows of the industry's fickle nature, we honor the legacy of a band that, against all odds, captured the hearts of power-pop aficionados and left behind melodies that still echo in the hearts of listeners. Join us for a heartfelt tribute to Material Issue, a band that rocked hard and left us with a soundtrack for the ages.
Please Like and Follow our Facebook page Music In My Shoes.
You can contact us at musicinmyshoes@gmail,com.
This is Ted Ansari from Material Issue, and you're listening to Music In my Shoes. He's got the feeling in his toe-toe.
Speaker 2:He's got the feeling and it's out there growing. Hey everybody, this is Jim Boge and you're listening to Music In my Shoes. That was Vic Thrill kicking off episode 21. As always, I'm thrilled to be here with you. Let's learn something new or remember something old.
Speaker 2:On March 8th 1994, the material issue album Freak City Soundtrack was released. It has been heavy rotation on my playlist for the last 30 years and as we look back at this album and the band, we have calling in from Chicago Ted Ansani, bass and vocals for Material Issue. Ted, thank you so much for joining Jimmy and I on Music In my Shoes. Hey, how you doing, doing good, really really good to have you with us today. So I want to set the stage for our listeners. Material Issue was a trio consisting of Jim Ellison, guitar and lead vocals, mike Zelenko on drums and yourself on bass and vocals. And you know, recently you guys have kind of been out there. You know in media with the Out of Time, the Material Issue story. You know a documentary on the band by film director Balin Schneider. I've watched it a few times. Real good documentary. I liked it. What were your thoughts when you heard you wanted to make a film about all three of you?
Speaker 1:Well, when Balin, the producer, first reached out to us, I kind of felt that it was just going to be like a school project. I didn't realize that it was going to turn into the production that it wound up becoming. So you know, in the past when people reach out to us, we're, you know, usually pretty willing and happy to contribute and talk or, you know, show up, you know add to the project. So we didn't have any reservations at all. We just kind of thought like, yeah, sure, you know, I figured it would probably just be a quick interview or maybe somebody would show up with a camera and just do you know, a couple of minutes of an interview. But when he came to town with his crew, he had a few crew members with him and a little bit of equipment and we met at a recording studio for him to film my segments. I was actually pretty impressed with the questions that he had and the overall project just really seemed to be kind of snowballing for him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that he did a lot of research. I really do think that it was in-depth from the beginning and through the end of the film and I was impressed with it. I liked what he did with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so did I.
Speaker 2:So tell us a little bit about the three of you. When did you start playing together? Were you friends, just bandmates?
Speaker 1:you start playing together Were your friends, just bandmates. Jim Ellison and I met my first year at Columbia College in Chicago. He and I were kind of hanging out in the student lounge, you know, a couple of days when school, when the semester, first started, and I remember seeing him and he must've been checking me out. You know we both had leather jackets. You could tell we were both musicians. You know, I was kind of impressed with his attitude and I think he could tell that I was, you know, a fairly serious young musician. You know, with starting, I've got, you know, a handful of songs I'm writing and recording. Would you be interested in helping out? And I said, yeah, sure. One of the first things that he said was you know, I write my own songs. Are you cool with that? And I said yeah, absolutely. You know how many do you have? And he said don't worry about that. No-transcript.
Speaker 1:I picked up bass in high school. Prior to that I was a drummer. I started in grade school with the concert band playing percussion. Actually, I think I first started on clarinet concert band playing percussion. Actually, I think I first started on clarinet and then from that I was like, ah, this isn't cool enough. So I became a drummer in grade school.
Speaker 1:Then in high school I was also a percussionist for the concert band and the marching band, but the band conductor needed a bass player for the jazz band.
Speaker 1:So he asked me if I would be interested in you know, trying out or you know attempting it.
Speaker 1:And I told him, you know, I can't really read music that well. And he said, don't worry about it. He said, as long as you can learn from listening, I'll give you the record of the songs you know that I want to play. And if you could, you know, make sure you're in tune and I'll loan you a bass and you can, you know, learn the songs from the record. And I was able to do that pretty quickly and that's a skill that I must've developed in high school, because I still use that to this day when I'm playing in bands and other musicians furnish me with, you know, a demo recording of a song that they want me to play on, or if I'm playing with a cover band and they want me to learn, you know, some Tom Petty song. As long as I've heard the song once or twice, I'm pretty much able to pick up the bass lines and perform, and I've been fortunate enough to have that skill since I was in high school.
Speaker 2:That's a great talent to have. So who are some of your favorite bass players? Who did you like back in the day and said, hey, maybe I want to emulate them a little bit?
Speaker 1:One of the coolest looking bass players, which goes a long way, was Pete Farndon from the Pretenders.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you know who I'm talking about, but he usually had a black leather jacket on, with a real dark pompadour and thin and cool, and he did a lot of walking bass lines, like if you can picture, the bass in the song Kid by the Pret pretenders. I picked up on that song right away and started learning how to play that song. Um, and then also, you know who else I? I didn't realize who it was, but it was, uh, carol from the um, from the wrecking crew.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, she played on all the regal hits you.
Speaker 1:Growing up I didn't realize that it was her playing bass, but Carole Kay. In hindsight, when I started finding out about her after the internet, I was like oh my god, she played on all the hit songs that I really like. So I really appreciate her skill and what she was able to bring to the recordings that she played on. Also, when I was younger, obviously you know, I listened to the Beatles, I listened to the who, I listened to Rush for a while. You know Geddy Lee was playing a Rickenbacker bass. That was always very impressive. In the mid to late 80s I kind of got into New Wave a little bit and John Taylor from Duran Duran is a smoking bass player. I don't know if he gets the credit that he deserves, but if you listen to soloed up tracks of his bass parts, he was he's a monster bass player.
Speaker 2:I agree with you on that, Definitely agree with you on that. With you know, you mentioned the Beatles and obviously Paul McCartney played bass. I've seen some pictures and some videos where you're playing on what looks to be a Beatle bass. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah sure, when I joined Materialist U and started earning a little bit of money, I wanted to buy myself a violin bass and at the time I couldn't quite afford a vintage Hoffner. So I got the first one that I got was a hollow body violin shaped bass by a company called Echo and I think that was produced in Italy and it was almost brand new. Even though it was vintage it was like new old stock. And the story was that there was some warehouse in Wisconsin, just north of the border from Chicago, that had, you know, new old stock of these echo instruments. So the thing, like I think it even had like a tag hanging on it and it was like brand new and it was real soft and supple. It was a beautiful neck and fretboard on it and cool sounding thumpy pickups. But I really wanted a Hoffner, I really wanted the Paul McCartney Beatle bass.
Speaker 1:So when we were making one of our records up in Zion, illinois, which is just a little bit north of Chicago, I went into a music store up there with Jim I think Mike was with us too and it was just a mom and pop music store and they had all these, like you know, heavy metal, hard rock, hair metal band bases on display and I'm like I don't want any of that Jackson or Charvel crap. I wanted, you know, I wanted something vintage looking, you know, and up on the shelf in the back of the store that was an old looking, dusty case and I'm like, what's that? He's like ah, you don't want that, nobody wants that. I'm like do you mind if I see it? And he's like yeah, I think it's one of those Hofners. He pulls it down. The thing was like brand new in the case, with tags, and I think I got that Hofner for 500 bucks, which is a great deal. Wow, I still have it in in almost like new condition.
Speaker 1:I barely ever played it live, I used it for videos, just cause it looked cool. You know, hoffner bass is not the kind of bass that material issue needed. You know what I mean. A lot of times Jim and Mike would be like, hey, you know you got to play that Beatle bass. You got to pull out that Hoffner. It's like number one. I didn't want to fall over drunk on it and knock the headstock off of it or bust it or have it stolen out of my car after the gig or anything. So I didn't want to bring it to gigs or scratch it up with my belt buckle or something or spill beer all over it, so I pretty much only pulled it out a couple of times for videos and photo shoots, but it's still in the case.
Speaker 2:Obviously, that's what I saw, because that has definitely been something that I noticed immediately and definitely wanted to ask you about that, and that's a pretty cool story how you actually found it and only paying about $500 for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, the guy like tried to talk me out of buying it. He's like nobody wants that. It's been sitting up there for years.
Speaker 2:If he only knew. Yeah, if he only knew. So in the doc, during an interview for International Pop Overthrow, which was your first album, the bands asked about Chicago-sounding bands and you happened to mention the band Ministry, which by that time was kind of an industrial metal band. But when I started listening to Ministry back in 1983, they were actually a synth pop band and they were closer.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you're talking about the With Sympathy album.
Speaker 2:Yes, and closer to bands like Depeche Mode and Gang of Four. So when you mentioned Ministry, it grabbed my attention. So for you, Ministry, were you listening to them with the With Sympathy type album, or are you listening to them more with the industrial side?
Speaker 1:I, you know, I'll be honest, you know a guilty pleasure I guess. But yeah, I like the With Sympathy stuff because I was just getting into the British New Wave stuff and even though they were, you know, that was basically a Chicago band it sounded like the new wave stuff that was happening in the early 80s. So that's what I liked especially.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, I have that album. That's another album that's on my playlist that I have been listening to since it's come out. I think that album is fantastic. I really do.
Speaker 1:So sticking with girls I was hanging out with at the time like that album that's always a plus, right, I was hanging out with at the time liked that album too.
Speaker 2:That's always a plus right. So, sticking with the first album. Like I mentioned, International Pop Overthrow. So that was recorded over a number of years, from 88 to 91. Can you kind of take us through what it was like making the album?
Speaker 1:International Pop Overthrow was essentially a number of demos and you probably saw this in the film, but I'll go through the story a little bit for people that haven't seen the documentary. We would go out on a weekend, we'd jump into the van and head out of town to Iowa City or Champaign, illinois or Indianapolis or Minneapolis or Milwaukee or Madison. We'd do a quick run out for the weekend. We'd play on a Friday and a Saturday night, put a little bit of cash in our pockets and come back to town and then during the week we'd hit the studio and record whatever the latest song was that Jim had just written. And, like I said, jim was writing like a new song, like every week. So we'd go into the studio and record a song or two with the money that we had just earned. So once we had 10 or 12 songs ready to go, we basically used those songs as demos.
Speaker 1:And when we got signed to Mercury, they were so impressed with the sound of those demos they decided to go ahead and just release it it. I think that was their way of saving money and getting a fresh sound. Um released, you know, right away um. And we were thrilled because we basically got the recording advance paid to us by the record company but the recording was pretty much done. We we might have polished, you know, the recordings up a little bit. Maybe we did a few overdubs here and there, but for the most part the recordings were in the can and they released them in basically demo state recording advance and use that to help fund our tours right off the bat and we bought outfits and we bought equipment and we bought a better vehicle and you know, we basically put that money back into the band.
Speaker 2:It's great sounding. It's hard to believe that it's really demos, that that was your intent at first, because the sound is just awesome and when I think of demos, that's not what I'm thinking, but that you guys did such a great job right from the beginning. I mean that says a lot about the three of you wanting to make the best that you could, even if it was just only a demo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were. You know, a lot of the credit has to go to Jeff Murphy from the band Shoes, because he was the guy that was producing and engineering our stuff for that first and the second album and he just knew how to take what we were putting down on tape and mix it to sound like the hits that impressed us, the radio hits that we were listening to. It might have been newer stuff, but it might have been stuff from the 60s and 70s. You know, we'd go into the studio and we'd be like we'd be like I just heard this awesome Bee Gees song. We really wish that our harmonies sounded like the Bee Gees. Jeff knew exactly what to do as soon as we were in the studio. All he did was basically throw up a couple of microphones and Jim and I worked out the vocal parts and laid them out on tape. Jeff was able to mix them brilliantly so that the songs just lended themselves immediately to the radio.
Speaker 2:And I know exactly what you mean, because show producer Jimmy here makes this show very easy for me to do and is in charge of everything and basically has everything set up, tells me what I need to do and I'm not trying to be funny at all, but I understand when you have someone that understands the process and is saying this is what's done, this is how we do it and you know we need to tweak this or tweak that. This is a suggestion you know. I definitely understand it, because I don't think that we would be doing as well with our show if it wasn't for show producer Jimmy right here.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Jim.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. So, ted, yeah, so Valerie Loves Me. So when I've asked people if they're familiar with Material Issue, almost everyone says immediately Valerie Loves Me. That's like the first three words that come out of people's mouths and it's an instant recognition, even 30 plus years later. That's got to be kind of cool knowing people remember it, that you know it didn't fade away. It's on people's minds and it's this just instant notification from people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'll be honest, it was not our favorite song, but it was our biggest hit and it does have legs and people. You know it didn't really sound like anything else that was out there. There weren't other songs at the time that sounded like that. People couldn't really quite put their finger on what it was. It sounded like a British song, even though we were from Chicago. It sounded like a power pop, even though power pop hadn't really quite come around yet. It sounded kind of like Cheap Trick but, you know, or Jim was singing with a British accent it sounded like. So I think people were just impressed with the sound and maybe they couldn't quite figure out exactly why. But that kind of gave it longevity, I believe, and that's why, you know, it stuck in people's heads and remains there.
Speaker 2:It definitely does. So the song Diane. I counted how many times you guys say Diane in the song. I came up with like 40. I got to be honest. I would have guessed it was at least 60 times in that song that you guys sing Diane. Another really good song. Where did that come from?
Speaker 1:Jim wrote that about. I think it might have been like his friend's sister or like his friend's girlfriend or something like that, and a lot of the songs were written about Jim's personal experiences, girls that he knew or met or came in contact with, growing up, being at some point in his adolescence, maybe in high school, maybe even in grammar school and you know, Valerie Loves Me. The story is that that was the girl that lived in an apartment above the apartment that he and his parents lived in when he was a boy and this girl, who was a teenage girl, was renting an apartment upstairs and Jim would see her coming and going, going out with guys, going out with her friends, coming home late at night, dancing upstairs, and he'd hear music, he'd hear her dancing. So he wrote this song about this girl that impressed him when he was a young man. Diane was very similar and it's funny you mentioned how many times we say Diane.
Speaker 1:Back in the day, when we used to tour and Diane was a single of ours, the radio stations that would, whichever town we'd be in, that would kind of be promoting the show that we'd be playing in whatever night you know, whichever city we happened to be in. They would say you know, the first caller that comes in and has the correct answer to how many times Diane is mentioned in the song gets free tickets for the show tonight. And a lot of the cities were promoting the shows and the album by running a contest like that. So I really don't know the answer. I've never actually even tried but I believe that it's probably somewhere between 40 and 60. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a good song, definitely a good song. And you know, the one thing that I have to say is that we've talked about it on the show before. Jimmy and I both love songs, that when the singer sings them it sounds like he means it, that you can feel it coming from them. And I think Jim Ellison, when he sings a lot of the songs, you really can feel it coming from him, whether it's coming from his heart or from his head, but that he has something really in touch with that song. And I think that you've just kind of confirmed that with talking about writing of personal experiences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he had a great ability to wear his heart on his sleeve and to sing from the soul.
Speaker 2:So Renee remains the same, since we're going to stay with Girls Names. I guess that was a song that really got you guys going. You know from what I heard it was played on a local Chicago station, really got a lot of attention and kind of got the wheels moving for you guys.
Speaker 1:Yes, rene Remains the Same was one of those songs that we recorded as a demo, essentially before we were signed even, and it was released initially by actually, I think we put it out ourselves on 45 and, uh, we made a small 45 single called the supersonic seven inch. It was a seven inch 45 record, final record, and I think the flip side was called the girl who never ever falls Love, and we put that out ourselves and we were, you know, touring around in the van before we were signed and we'd bring a box of records with us to try to sell them and make a few bucks, you know, put some gas in the tank and maybe get a hotel room, you know, for the night there's a lot of nights. We didn't have enough money. We slept in the van on the side of the road, we'd pull into a rest stop or something and spend the night in the van between cities while we were touring. But anyway, I digress there.
Speaker 1:The song Renee Remains the Same was basically our first successful song because after we released it ourselves on that 45, local radio station, station WXRT here in Chicago, picked up on it and they put out a compilation record one year with a bunch of local bands and our selection for that release was Renee Remains the Same. So WXRT started playing it and that was the first of our songs that we actually heard on a big radio station here in Chicago. And you know, driving around the city, going to school when we were in college, or you know, going to pick up a girlfriend or going to hang out with our friends, and to hear that song blasting through WXRT on your car stereo, it was, it was bliss, it was just. You know, the most satisfying sound to my ears was to hear Renee remains the same.
Speaker 1:It's got. It's got those harmonies, it's. You know we sing it like like the Everly brothers. You know what I mean. It was so sweet and so poignant and it was. It was just perfect. Jim's crafting of the song and our recording and the mixing and just the way it sounded coming out of the speakers, it was thrilling.
Speaker 2:So one of the things about our listeners, ted, is they're really devoted. I mean, we don't have the largest audience, but we have a decent-sized audience and people. When we talk about different songs and different albums, people immediately will start, you know, adding them to their playlist, and I think that so far we've given the listeners a lot to add, especially with your stories behind it. I think they're really going to be excited about that and we appreciate you know everything so far and I know the listeners do also. I got to mention very first lie. I absolutely love this song. Okay, even if it doesn't have words, if it's just instrumentation, it would be fantastic to me Love that song.
Speaker 1:That was always one of the big crowd pleasers At our shows. You know from our earliest tours that song the audience would sing along and there was opportunities throughout that song where Jim would just stop singing and let the audience sing it and that was a testament to how successful it was, how people just loved the sound of the song. But even more importantly, I think the meaning of the song, the innocence of that song, the innocence that Jim was able to portray in his delivery, really connected with the audiences. And even to this day, when we still play you know we do tribute shows once in a while, a couple times a year we play shows People still sing that song, the whole crowd sings it. It's definitely one of the biggest crowd favorites to this day.
Speaker 2:I believe it, I definitely do. Like I said, I love that song. So you guys certainly liked the colors black and white between clothes and videos, and even when you appeared on the Dennis Miller show performing Valerie Loves Me, they go to black and white when you guys played that. Where did this direction come from?
Speaker 1:That. I don't know, it must have been some producer at the show. I think you know the contrast of black and white I think might've worked well for us. You know, even just kind of like a little bit of the retro throwback thing to to the Beatles, you know, to the old Ed Sullivan TV shows and stuff like that. I think people were just able to connect us to, to early television maybe, and maybe our songs and our appearance lent itself to that. I believe that might be some of the reasoning behind that.
Speaker 2:So if we move over real quick to the second album, destination Universe, some of my favorites off the album what Girls Want, next Big Thing, everything, everything is my favorite song on that album and the video another black and white video that you guys did. I love that video. I really like that video. Do you remember where that was filmed?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was filmed in New York City somewhere. I think it was a vacant lot that might have been used as some kind of artist garden, and the producers of that video, or the director of that video, chose that location and the streets of New York City to film us kind of walking around. One thing I regret about that video is that there's no performance footage at all. You don't see us holding an instrument at all and I kind of always regretted that. I wanted that to be included. But I don't even think there was any film footage of us for the video of us performing, you know, singing or playing. That's one tiny regret I have of that song and that release.
Speaker 2:I can understand that. I definitely can. So you guys had done some covers of the band Sweet or the Sweet, depending on you know, when you were listening to them, because they went by both names at some point, and one of them being Little Willie. Little Willie Willie Won't Go Home for those of you who don't remember the song, little Willie Willie Won't Go Home. For those of you who don't remember the song, I had this 45 record and played it over and over and over, and I think I was in the first grade when I was doing it. You guys also covered Sweet's Blockbuster and Ballroom Blitz, and all three of these songs were co-written by Mike Chapman, who ends up becoming the producer of your third album, freak City Soundtrack Precisely. Is that just a coincidence or was that part of the plan that, hey, we played these songs that this guy was, you know part of? How did that come together for you?
Speaker 1:When we were ready to go into the studio to start recording songs for our third album, the record company wanted us to make a change and start working with a different producer album. The record company wanted us to make a change and start working with a different producer. So there were some names being tossed around and then Mike Chapman's name came up and um being that we were such sweet fans, but he also produced the knack of uh yes, get the knack.
Speaker 1:And he also produced some Blondie albums, and we were big Blondie fans too. I think Beat to the Beat might have been the first album, one of the first albums that I bought. I bought a Pretenders album right off the bat when I first started being able to purchase my own records, and Blondie too. Mike was just a great songwriter and producer. I think he wrote Simply the Best for Tina Turner and produced some of her hits, and he just had a knack no pun intended for being able to get what we were putting out there on record and just make it sound cool. You know, I think our first two records might have been, you know, kind of power poppy and cute and definitely accepted well. But Mike Chapman knew how to put us in front of the microphones and get us out in the studio and capture our live sound that we were honing and crafting while touring. So when we started working with him, he knew exactly what to do to try to make a sound like Sweet.
Speaker 2:And it worked. It definitely worked. The first song on the album, going Through your Purse definitely with the drums in the beginning, definitely sound like the suite. It also reminds me, if you look back at the Blondie album, parallel Lines, the song Hanging on the Telephone, where the song just comes right out. It's this rock and roller, it's kind of in your face type of thing and that's the way that I looked at going through your purse, that it was the same thing like boom, here we are, you know, accept us, because this is what you're going to get and I think it's a great way to open up the album. It's a fun song, I think you know when I've heard you guys play it doing some live stuff, it sounds like you guys have a great time playing it and in my opinion and I am nobody I think this probably should have been the first single off the album to just blow everybody away with material issue on this third album.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it definitely kicked the doors open for us with that record. Things might not have been going so well with the record company at that time but as far as the sound of that album Mike Chapman, definitely you know that captured our energy and put it on vinyl and got it out there for us and we appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I count at least six songs that could have been singles when you look at this album. That's how good this album is and I'm hoping people will definitely go revisit it or, if you've never heard it before, listen to it, because it is a really, really good album. I think some people might know the second song off of it, kim the Waitress Again another one of the material issue girls' name songs, even though it was a cover. Is that Jim playing sitar on the song?
Speaker 1:Yes, jim had a guitar that was produced by a company called Choral, I think, which is a branch of the Dan Electro Company, and it's an electric guitar that is designed with a thin piece of wood that kind of rests underneath the strings, that vibrates and gives it that sitar sound. And so, yes, jim is playing the sitar on overdubs on that song. Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2:I thought it was. I've been wondering all these years and I'm glad that I had the opportunity to ask to find out for real. I thought this was a really good video. Out of all of the videos that were done, this is one of my favorite. You know I mentioned everything, but I really like the Kim the Waitress video also. Thanks, funny feeling. I don't know how this was not a hit single. It's still a really good song now, so it should have been on the Billboard charts back then. I don't get it. I have no idea. I mean, this is a really, really, really good song. I mean this is, you know, power pop, rock, great sing-alongs type of song. Yet it didn't happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. I think it was just, you know, a selection process that that song just didn't make the cut.
Speaker 2:as far as choosing singles goes, I know that the next song was the Fan and then followed by one song called One Simple Word, and I really like it because growing up I watched a lot of Evel Knievel on Wide World of Sports and Jim sings about Evel Knievel. Can you tell us a little bit about this song?
Speaker 1:I think it's got some sound effects in there that were put in the song by a guy named Specula, a friend of ours from Chicago, and he had a collection of toys that he would use to create sound effects and I think we overdone some sounds into that song. Unfortunately they're a little buried in the mix, but that was part of that song, I think. Also in the film, in the documentary film I think, there's a little bit of footage of us recording that song in the studio and, yeah, one of my favorite songs from that album too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, anytime you can mention Evil Knievel, that's a good song to me, so I hope you can tell. I think this is a great album from start to finish. But where did the album title Freak City Soundtrack come from?
Speaker 1:Jim thought that up. I'm not sure exactly why he landed on that. Not sure exactly why he landed on that, but in Chicago you'd see a lot of game tagging on abandoned buildings and the subway and stuff like that and a lot of things referred to Chicago as Freak City. There was, I think it was, a street game called Freaks and I think it was just kind of a nod to the city that we were all from Understandable. I think it's good. I think it was just kind of a nod to the city that we were all from Understandable.
Speaker 2:I think it's good. I think the album cover was good. What was it like having Rick Nielsen in the studio with you, because you know you had mentioned about you know Cheap Trick earlier. That had to be so cool having someone that you like listening to in the studio, helping you out and just being part of the whole process yeah, that was really cool.
Speaker 1:I mean, cheap trick was definitely a heavy influence on us. When I was a young teenager, my older brother got the uh, the budokan album and, uh, you know. So I was a big cheap trick fan. Jim and mike were big cheap trick fans at the time too. So in order, you know, in order to have him come to the studio I don't even know how we got him he turned up, he came to the studio with a guitar tech. He carried in one of his cool guitars and plugged in and just started jamming. I mean, he listened to the songs and the playbacks a couple of times to kind of get the chord progressions down, and then, all of a sudden, mike Chapman just hit record and we just started rolling tape and grabbing what we could from whatever he was able to lay down for us. And it was glorious. You know, just hearing his tone being added on to our songs was beautiful. Tone being added on to our songs was beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's a good song In the documentary you mentioned about how he's known for his guitar picks. And in 1997, I went to see Cheap Trick at the Music Midtown Festival here in Atlanta and I knew we'd like to throw him out to the audience. So I kind of got into the crowd and I just kept working my way up until I got to a point where I'm like I think I'm within throwing range of Rick Nielsen and he just kept throwing picks and they were not coming near me. And right near the end, right before they finish, boom, there comes the pick and it lands right in front of me and I was able to pick that up and I still have it. Good job, yes, yeah, I'm not sure if I'm going to win an award for that, but I just thought that I would mention that since Ted mentioned it in the documentary about the picks, I've still got my Johnny Ramone pick.
Speaker 2:That's my one. And where is that from? From a show in Atlanta. I think it was Center Stage in Atlanta. Oh nice, yeah, there you go. So you know, finishes up the album. You know a couple of songs. She's Going Through my Head. Help Me Land Again. I think that this album is a fantastic album. Mike Chapman, as you mentioned, did so much to it to make it a great rock and roll album. What happened with the label thinking differently, and where did it all go wrong?
Speaker 1:You know it was an odd time when that record came out. Nirvana had just kind of taken off and they didn't quite know what to do with bands that sounded like us. Green Day was just starting out, weezer hadn't quite happened yet or was just starting out, and I don't think that the record label realized that they had their very own Green Day slash, weezer. You know we fit right in with that.
Speaker 1:But I think at the time Mercury, polydor, polygram didn't quite know how to market us because grunge was taking off, you know, pearl Jam was happening, those kinds of bands, the Seattle Sound was happening and unfortunately it just kind of seemed like their interests migrated into that direction and they just I don't want to say they turned their back on our sound. They just didn't know and they just I don't want to say they turned their back on our sound, they just didn't know how to market us, they didn't know what to do with us. And so I think you know it was frustrating to see it happening. You know we were out there touring, we had done the third album, which was much more aggressive than our previous two. So we were trying to give them what they needed, what they thought that they wanted, but they just they didn't really know what to do with us. So we kind of split ways with the record company at that time.
Speaker 2:Which is definitely a tough thing that I'm sure going through for all three of you.
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely, yeah, I think you know. Obviously it hit Jim the hardest and unfortunately that's kind of what took, you know, such a major toll on Jim, on his psyche, on his ego, on his persona. He felt that even after all his efforts, that he wasn't being appreciated. I think that kind of led to some depression and ultimately took, you know, a fatal toll on Jim yeah, and that's definitely the saddest part about everything.
Speaker 2:I mean we're talking about all these good things that that the three of you were able to do from a, you know, a relatively young age in college and meeting and and getting Mike to join the band and doing all these things and doing it your way and, you know, making these demos that become an album. And then you know getting your second album and then getting Mike Chapman and everything looks like it's going great and it's going to be like a road that you have no idea where it's going to go to. And then unfortunately, as you mentioned, you know, in June of 1996, jim takes his life and, you know, nothing could be worse than that.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, and you know it was very hard for Mike and I. You know it kind of left us holding the bag not knowing what to do. You know, we really didn't. We really didn't see it coming. We didn't realize that he was in the state that he was in, and then the way I kind of put it over the years was we didn't know what to do, we didn't know where to turn, we didn't feel that we had the support of a record company anymore. Our management seemed to have kind of moved on without us, and so at the time we did have demos for another album in the can, but they weren't quite complete. So after Jim died, mike and I went into the studio, finished overdubbing and mixing our final record, which was released after Jim had passed away, called Telecommando Americano, and that was released on LeicoDisc and that was basically just the bookend. It was the final songs in Jim's catalog that we put out there.
Speaker 2:That must have been great being able to do the bookends and after all the time that you spent with those guys being in the band, what would you say are your top five material issue songs?
Speaker 1:All right. Well, after talking to you, I think these are probably some of your favorite songs too. I've got Renee Remains, the Same Diane. Next Big Thing, destination U from the Destination Universe album and a B-side that was called she Was an Actress. Those are my five favorite material issue songs.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know, she Was an Actress. I'm definitely going to have to check that one out. I know Destination U a little bit, but I'm going to listen to it a little bit more. Now that you've mentioned it. I can't tell you how appreciative I am of you coming on and joining To me. This has definitely been an honor. If you told me 33 years ago that this band that I'm listening to on CD and I hear on the radio that I'm gonna have a chance to actually interview someone from the band, I would have said that you're crazy. And the fact that I absolutely love Freak City, I love the live album, those are things that I absolutely love. Freak City, I love the live album, those are things that I listen to a lot, and having you on and really hearing all this stuff from you, it means the world to me. So I just want to make sure that you understand that I am extremely appreciative.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much. It's my pleasure. You know this is what we do, mike and I. You know we we're more than happy to keep this spirit alive and to introduce the band to new fans and to perform songs once in a while for our old fans and just continue and carry the torch and bring the legacy forward. We're all about that, so we're happy to do that for you.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. That's it for Episode 21 of Music in my Shoes. I'd like to thank our very special guest, ted Ansani of Material Issue, for joining us today. I'd also like to thank Jimmy Guthrie, show producer and owner of Arcade 160 Studios located here in Atlanta, georgia, and to Vic Thrill for our podcast music. This is Jim Boge, and I hope you learned something new or remembered something old. We'll meet again on our next episode. Until then, live life and keep the music playing. I love you.