[00:00:00.170] - Greg
It was the fourth IFPA world championships. And the way that it worked was it was a 128 player double elimination bracket. And there were 25 of the most recent game from each of the main pinball manufacturers at the time on the floor. And that's where you play your games. And so the high seed would pick the first game and then the winner would pick the next game and so on. It was best of three double elimination and the four games. So there were four major pinball manufacturers and the four games on the floor were World cup soccer, Demolition man, Gottlieb/Premier had Rescue 911, and Data East had WWF. And so the fact that this was one of the games I played.

[00:00:40.260] - Greg
At my first ever pinball tournament, it kind of holds a place in my heart because of that. But also I just think, first of all, it's like, God, it's amazing how corny and cheesy the game is.

[00:00:51.470] - Alex
Oh, it's peak in a good way.

[00:00:54.020] - Greg
Because it's like all of these wrestlers, like the clown whose name I can't even remember who it is.

[00:00:58.550] - Alan
Doink, Doink is the clown.

[00:01:00.000] - Greg
Doink. Yes, thank you. Doink the clown and all of these wrestlers and their like cheesy moves. It's like so camp. And the main sound call is some wrestler going, "yeah", all the time, constantly. From that perspective, it's just so entertaining and so 90s. From a game standpoint. It's a pretty fun play field to shoot. It's got a couple of big ramps. It's got a fairly standard, like for the time mode based rule set with a multi ball that you set up. It's not particularly easy to get. But like most Data East games at the time, it would light it for you on ball three by default. Another thing that I wanted to kind of point out is, and one of the reasons why I thought of this game is because I think a lot of the Data East and Sega games get kind of shit on as kind of like substandard Williams games, which in a lot of ways they were, and Data East, like there's reasons, because Data East never had the resources that Williams did. And one of the things about the pinball industry is that if your line's not moving, you're not making money.

[00:02:07.240] - Greg
And so as soon as your last game goes off the line, you got to put the next game on. And when you're making less games, that means you have less time to make.

[00:02:16.250] - Alan
Oh, for sure.

[00:02:17.130] - Greg
And so at Williams, where they would have a year and a half to make a game, at Data East, they might have six months to make. And so led to a lot of the reasons why a lot of them don't feel particularly great or rushed. But a lot of them are really actually fun games if you take away the lens of looking at them as compared to the Williams games at the time. Right? Because you can't compare a Honda Accord to a Ferrari, but that doesn't mean that...

[00:02:45.130] - Greg
That a Honda Accord isn't a good car. Right? And this is a pretty fun game. It's got modes. They're goofy, but they are modes.

[00:02:55.010] - Alan
And they make you hit different shots.

[00:02:57.590] - Greg
Yes, and also a lot of them actually tie into the characters pretty well. And the theme, they make you hit all of the different parts of the play field. Like, you can't just loop one shot and get a ton of points. There's a lot of points in the game that aren't tied to the multi ball necessarily. The multi ball sequence is pretty fun. The animations and sounds are goofy. And if you get one, and this is also another problem with a lot of Sega and Data East games is that a lot of people, they've never played one that's been refurbished, right? And so a lot of them just play like garbage. And because the flipper mechs on those games weren't as good as the ones at Williams, they tend to die much more easily. And if you play one for a couple hours, the flippers get noticeably weaker and stuff like that.

[00:03:45.990] - Alex
Those data east flippers, when they're playing right, are so powerful. Well, those things can crush walnuts.

[00:03:53.540] - Alan
They're kind of like Sterns.

[00:03:55.310] - Alan
I mean, they haven't changed that much. They're snappy. But yeah, I agree that the flipper Feel of the 90s games, comparatively like a bally Williams game, I pulled some part that surprisingly you could still make shots with that were pretty mushroomed and bad. But Data East flippers, they kind of start to feel hollow and they just don't...

[00:04:13.200] - Alan
 they're spongy when they're not kept up.

[00:04:18.720] - Alan
But, yeah, I would say Data East Royal Rumble, we had one and put it on the floor for a while and it was fun. I thought it was fun.

[00:04:26.810] - Alex
But you're supposed to be hating on this game I thought.

[00:04:28.120] - Alan
No, but there's other people that hate on this game.

[00:04:31.860] - Alex
Shit. Well, I kind of like royal rumble, too.

[00:04:35.380] - Alan
No, I'm going to read some bad reviews here.

[00:04:38.500] - Alex
I was like, someone has to not like it.

[00:04:41.830] - Alan
Plenty of people don't like it.

[00:04:44.780] - Greg
I got to say, a lot of the data east games at that time are good. Jurassic Park is a good game.

[00:04:48.120] - Alan
I agree.

[00:04:51.220] - Greg
Yeah, I think Tales from the Crypt is a solid game, and the Sega era, like Frankenstein, is a really good game. Baywatch is a good game.

[00:04:57.310] - Alan
I was thinking about doing Frankenstein because that's a John Borg game. And I was thinking about doing that one as one of my Die on the Hill games because I think that game's fun.

[00:05:06.450] - Greg
I thought about Baywatch, but I think too many people actually like that game.

[00:05:08.020] - Alan
Too many people do really like Baywatch.

[00:05:09.730] - Alex
That one's not a Die on the Hill game, that's too popular now.

[00:05:12.350] - Greg
Starship troopers is fun too.

[00:05:14.290] - Alex
Starship Troopers is sick. That's one that when I first got into pinball, I loved that thing. And that was part of why I got a Hobbit was because I was like, Joe Balcer game with one giant pop up enemy. Good. Joe Balcer game with four giant pop up enemies, it has got to be better.

[00:05:38.950] - Greg
You have chosen poorly.

[00:05:41.590] - Alex
That thing's down the road long ago.

[00:05:45.050] - Alan
So I'm going to go right into these bad reviews.

[00:05:47.140] - Alan
Someone named Seshpilot says, quote, some people love WWF. They think it's a diamond buried under a bad theme. That may be true for some, but I just didn't like it. And here's why. I'll start with a theme. I don't like WWF, but I especially struggle with buying a game covered in half naked dudes.

[00:06:06.710] - Alan
Sorry, but having to stare at macho man in a pink spandex top just doesn't help me rate this game well. And I didn't care for the layout...

[00:06:19.060] - Alan
I know, right?

[00:06:19.940] - Greg
What a pinball guy review.

[00:06:21.760] - Alan
I think this guy was in Alabama or something too. So it's like you're like, oh yeah. A little insecure there.

[00:06:26.030] - Alan
He's like, I didn't care for the layout of the shots, the center ramp was way too close to the flippers in my opinion, and both it and the left ramp drain right away if you don't make it all the way up the thing.

[00:06:35.890] - Alan
While the mini playfield was super cool in its time, it feels ultra gimmicky to me and doesn't feel like it truly serves a purpose to the scoring. The call outs get pretty annoying. Macho man yelling yeah, over and over again.

[00:06:57.430] - Alan
and it's a data east. I don't mind some Data Easts, like Star Wars, but I think this game just felt cheap. It's nowhere near the build quality as a Williams/Bally in my opinion, and the lighting was nowhere near as good as a solid Williams/Bally from that era, or even the era preceeding DMD.

[00:07:13.060] - Alan
There are some cool innovations with the game like the TAP button, which requires you to take your hand off a flipper and hit TAP as many times as you can to score bonus points or the fact that you get penalized for cradling the ball when certain shots are required. That is seriously cool.

[00:07:27.140] - Alan
But I can't see myself ever buying this one. If you dig late 80s WWF, it may be awesome for you, but if you don't like wrestling, or are looking for a diamon under a poor theme, look elsewhere. This isn't it.

[00:07:32.530] - Alan
What do you make of that review?

[00:07:41.750] - Alex
I don't like wrestling.

[00:07:43.150] - Greg
Like, I've never watched wrestling or cared about wrestling. But how can you not love the campiness of this game? It's very much in that realm of, like, it's gotten so bad that it's looped back around to being good.

[00:07:58.090] - Alex
Like, No Fear to me.

[00:07:59.400] - Alan
I grew up liking wrestling, so it's like, to me, this fits. I love the theme because I love the camp and the soap opera of it. And I love greased up muscle men in tights because I think that that's hilarious. This guy's like, I can't buy it. And I'm like, that's the best stuff. I think that's what a lot is going for this game.

[00:08:16.920] - Alex
It's like me with no fear.

[00:08:18.650] - Alan
Yeah, you're like, the theme is the best part.

[00:08:21.280] - Alan
Alex really likes the theme of no fear, not just the game. Like, he loves the theme, which is hilarious.

[00:08:29.040] - Speaker 2
All right.

[00:08:29.370] - Alan
But the next review, we have caucasian2step, which seems to show up on this series a lot because he's rated over a thousand games on pinside.

[00:08:38.150] - Alan
But he says, quote, World Wildlife Fund is a pinball game that needs a serious software overhaul. The pros: Doink. The cons: the rules on this game are deader than half the wrestlers on this game's art package.

[00:09:01.190] - Alan
Ramp spam up the middle is a valid description of this, rendering everything else on it worthless. You would have thought they had learned their lesson with Star Wars.

[00:09:08.570] - Alan
The takeaway. This game could use some steroids for code, or a P3 rewrite, end quote.

[00:09:14.460] - Alan
So the only pro he lists is Doink the Clown.

[00:09:20.800] - Alex
I was going to say, if you're going to give the game one pro...

[00:09:24.580] - Alan
I mean, there's some legends on there.

[00:09:26.100] - Speaker 5
Hulk's on there. Macho's on there. Undertaker's on there.

[00:09:29.270] - Alan
From a wrestling fan standpoint, there's some great wrestlers on there.

[00:09:32.600] - Alan
Doink wasn't like an all time great, but he was of the time. That's what's funny about...

[00:09:38.220] - Alan
these games are time capsules of when they came out. Just like roller coaster tycoon. It's a time capsule of its time. It was such a big deal then. That now you look back and go: 

[00:09:47.870] - Alan
Why did they make a whole pinball machine about that? Or why is Doink the clown on this game?

[00:09:53.050] - Greg
Why did they make a game about Johnny Mnemonic?

[00:09:55.980] - Alan
Like, what's interesting is what you were saying about data east is. And I think this speaks to Joe Kaminkow personally, but it's like, you look back at Data East games, and while Bally/Williams also got some licenses, and they got a couple of big ones like Terminator 2.

[00:10:12.780] - Alan
Data East got Batman, Star wars. They were getting big licenses, which then continued with Sega.

[00:10:19.160] - Alex
 Yeah, Sega got monster licenses, too.

[00:10:25.450] - Alan
Everyone seems to think the Bally Williams games are better, and I think they y and large, are. But it's interesting that they got these massive licenses, even though they had less time to make games, and were selling less games.

[00:10:34.940] - Alan
and they got Jurassic park, like we were talking about.

[00:10:38.460] - Alex
Like, that's insane.

[00:10:39.780] - Alex
And then they gave Jurassic park. Or maybe it was Star Wars. John Borg's first design was a monster license.

[00:10:46.380] - Greg
Yeah, they actually did two Star wars games. They did Star Trek 30th anniversary. They did Back to the Future as well.

[00:10:53.030] - Alan
They got massive licenses.

[00:10:56.000] - Greg
I think it shows they're kind of a different attitude towards what they're doing to sell games. And you see this in Stern now, where they lean very heavily on themes that will sell, whereas Bally was more focused on making a game that were fun. And they both found success in their own way. I mean, you look at, like, a game like South park, for instance. First of all, they got that game at the height of its popularity and then got it out the door very quickly.

[00:11:23.500] - Greg
And that game is awful.

[00:11:25.540] - Alan
That game is really bad. And they sold a shit load of them.

[00:11:32.220] - Alex
They still earn like crazy.

[00:11:34.300] - Alan
Yeah, they earned like crazy. And that was in, like, 99.

[00:11:37.290] - Alan
So, like, pinball is collapsing, right? Bally/Williams is shut down. Right?

[00:11:43.520] - Alex
That was the last game that was purely a sega, because after that, it was Sharky's Shootout, which came out as a Stern.

[00:11:49.730] - Alan
Gary rebranded as Stern right after that. That's interesting.

[00:11:54.520] - Alan
All right, so another review.

[00:11:55.930] - Alex
Wait, we got to go back to that one. Can you really just spam the center ramp? Is that, like, a safe strategy?

[00:12:00.920] - Greg
I don't remember. I mean, it's a safe strategy. The thing is, I don't remember it actually being worth anything.

[00:12:06.170] - Alex
That's the thing, right?

[00:12:08.070] - Greg
I don't know why you would.

[00:12:09.230] - Alex
It's like a coward strategy, but I don't think it would even get you like points for a league night. Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.

[00:12:16.230] - Alan
I feel like there's something that builds up on the center shot.

[00:12:19.300] - Alan
I do remember that there's something that builds up on the center shot that you can hit again and again.

[00:12:23.660] - Alan
There's points in the multi ball, and there is points in the modes. I guess you could just hit that over and over again.

[00:12:32.320] - Alex
See, I don't have that self control.

[00:12:36.050] - Greg
I'm a big defender of the coward strategies in pinball, like whatever it takes to win, it's what I'm going to do. And maybe that's a good topic for another podcast, but I'm not saying it's not. But I don't remember that being a viable strategy in this game.

[00:12:48.650] - Alex
Yeah, I don't remember that either.

[00:12:49.990] - Alan
All right, we got another review here from Jesster64 says, quote, games last forever. Not a real challenge.

[00:12:58.210] - Alan
I'm a wrestling fan too, and this game got boring and the sounds are very annoying. End quote. Short review.

[00:13:11.130] - Greg
There's a guy named Dave Heggy who was a very, very good pinball player for a long time in Chicago and at a pinball expo he won the tournament one year and he won a WWF. And there was a programmer in Chicago named Orin Day who worked on most of the Data East games. And one time Dave came up to Orin and asked him to make a custom rom for WWF so that it would say "Yeah" less, he was like, it just says it too much. Like, can you just make it say "yeah" less?

[00:13:45.590] - Alan
The less yeah rom?

[00:13:54.780] - Alex
Can't imagine having that be your biggest gripe.

[00:13:59.420] - Greg
I don't know if that ever happened or not, but I definitely remember him asking.

[00:14:04.470] - Alan
Alright, Tabascoman77, says, WWF Royal Rumble is basically like a wrestling match. It's not always pretty, there are botches, and most of the time you're rewarded somewhat. I'd love to tell you that it's fun to play, but it's aggravating. First, the play field is ugly as hell, mainly because most of it's covered by a metal ramp version of the jersey turnpike, and there's not much left to work with.  

[00:14:28.170] - Alan
Seriously. There are ramps everywhere, including a huge ramp right up the middle that you will hit multiple times even if you're not trying to hit it. That middle ramp is a huge detriment to the game, taking away most of the other shots that would make this an actual game. Hitting the upper play field ring in the corner, for instance, is a miracle.

[00:14:46.050] - Alan
If you can, and you may or may not even know you're up there until the ball drains away from it. The audio is basically a variation of Hulk Hogan's Real American and Vince McMahon yelling stuff through a pillow. All the audio sounds this way. That's a shame. I've yet to play Stern's WrestleMania, but I'm hoping it's an improvement on this mess. End quote.

[00:15:18.570] - Alan
I think he's going to be disappointed because.

[00:15:21.070] - Greg
Yeah, I do too.

[00:15:23.920] - Alex
I don't know, we played a Wrestlemania LE for the first time not too long ago and I was like, it has a lot more going on than the pro.

[00:15:31.570] - Alan
It has some more, but I hate that game, though, to be honest.

[00:15:35.060] - Greg
Oh, it's awful.

[00:15:36.270] - Alex
That upper ring, it's very different.

[00:15:38.820] - Alan
I mean, it's very unique, but I hate that game. Royal Rumble to me is the best wrestling game for sure.

[00:15:54.600] - Greg
It's funny, I'm looking at it right now, and at the time, I remember we always used to make fun of Data East because a lot of the artwork on their playfields looks kind of like somebody took a magazine, made a xerox of it, and then cut things out and pasted them onto the playfield. And this definitely kind of has that vibe. Now I find it kind of charming. Like, at the time I thought it was dumb, but now I find it charming.

[00:16:20.030] - Alex
Kind of think I agree with that. They look like they're cut out of a comic book to me, so it doesn't look bad. It just looks kind of like a stylistic choice.

[00:16:28.570] - Greg
Yeah.

[00:16:29.030] - Alan
All right, so Kwikemart says, I think this is one of Data East's worst games, but it's not the worst game by any company.

[00:16:35.370] - Alan
So I think that that's a good review?

[00:16:39.430] - Alan
I don't know. That's like a mediocre review. That's like, it's one of their worst games. However, other companies have made games worse than this, I guess.

[00:16:53.740] - Alex
I don't know if I would say it's even close to Data East's worst game, though.

[00:16:57.660] - Alan
No, dude, Phantom of the Opera is the worst. That game sucks.

[00:17:01.640] - Greg
Phantom of the Opera is pretty bad. What else? Last Action Hero is not fun. Lethal Weapon three is not fun. There's a lot of questionable stuff.

[00:17:11.120] - Alex
Yeah.

[00:17:11.230] - Greg
I don't like the original Simpsons game.

[00:17:13.840] - Alan
That one sucks.

[00:17:14.710] - Alex
Disappointment.

[00:17:15.480] - Alan
Yeah, I agree. Back to the Future is pretty bad.

[00:17:18.820] - Alan
But to me, it's Phantom of the Opera. Every time I play that thing, I'm just like, this game sucks.

[00:17:24.180] - Alan
If anyone wants to come on the podcast and defend Phantom of the Opera though, I would love to have you on the podcast.

[00:17:29.220] - Alex
I played Tommy for the first time recently, and that was not good.

[00:17:32.810] - Alan
Oh, really? Tommy's okay. Tommy's considered one of the good ones. I actually like Tommy.

[00:17:37.070] - Greg
Yeah.

[00:17:37.260] - Alex
I don't know. Maybe because maybe I just had too high of hopes because I'd heard it's one of the best ones.

[00:17:42.670] - Greg
Yeah.

[00:17:43.410] - Alan
Again, it's like it's got to be playing well, which you never know on location, but we'll have to hunt one down.

[00:17:51.200] - Alan
Okay, so kwikemart said it's one of data east's worst games, but not the worst game ever.

[00:17:55.760] - Speaker 5
But tenpinball says, the worst data east game, period. So that one's pretty self explanatory, a one sentence review.

[00:18:19.490] - Greg
I mean, anybody who wants to think about bad games needs to take a Data East game and then play some of the Gottlieb Premier games from that era, because those games are terrible.

[00:18:29.800] - Alex
Don't you say anything about Premiers!

[00:18:32.160] - Greg
Barbed Wire, Freddie: a nightmare on elm street.

[00:18:38.770] - Alan
Freddy's pretty bad.

[00:18:40.540] - Greg
Shaq. Shaq is terrible.

[00:18:46.380] - Alex
Shaq Attack?. It's could have one of the worst back glasses of any pinball machine. It's got him, like, cartoonishly big.

[00:18:54.470] - Alan
I love the Shaq Backglass!!!

[00:18:57.140] - Alex
And that game's loaded. All of those premier DMDs, it's like they had unlimited budget for the play field.

[00:19:03.090] - Alan
Yeah, they just didn't come together.

[00:19:07.000] - Alex
I think that's what (George) Gomez has said, that in interviews where he says, if you give someone too big of a sandbox, it just becomes a mess. Whereas if you give them limited resources, it makes you resourceful. I guess you do more with less when you know there's a cap. And I think those DMD premieres is a perfect example of that. You could give them a monster license. You could give them unlimited budget for the mechs, but not enough time and not enough experience, and it comes out like garbage.

[00:19:39.520] - Alan
I got three more left, three more bad reviews.

[00:19:41.220] - Alan
I found binks76, says,

[00:19:44.500] - Alan
Ok I really want to apologize in advance to those that, like this pin.

[00:19:48.340] - Alan
He starts off with an apology.

[00:19:50.160] - Alan
First off, the theme just doesn't work for me. Why did I buy this pin? I mean, what was I thinking? Then, of course, there's that silly little ramp in the center. I don't know. I've had it for a while now, and I'm afraid I must send it out the door. I just do not get it at all. I don't know why I'm writing an honest review when I'm trying to sell a game. If the prospective buyer is reading this, please ignore it. It's only my opinion. Apparently some people really like this game. I just can't figure out why for the life of me! I like that one.

[00:20:30.030] - Alex
Yeah.

[00:20:30.460] - Alan
Like an apologetic, I don't like this...

[00:20:32.480] - Alan
Why am I being honest about it? People do like it, though.

[00:20:36.260] - Alex
I like when guys buy games blind like that and you're like, what did I get into? Especially when it's an old game. It's like, dude, you've had 30 years to try it.

[00:20:47.480] - Alan
Yeah. All right.

[00:20:50.790] - Alan
So Kineticross says, pros: negative reception towards the game led to different games being awarded to the a division victors in future pinball Expos. It's also good for spare parts. Cons: Most insulting first place prize in pinball history. So he lists the pros as like they gave it away at a couple expos at the tournament as prizes and then he says, cons, it's got to be the most insulting first place prize in pinball history.

[00:21:20.330] - Alan
He's like, terrible sounds. All I can hear is, yeah! Shoot the ball up to the upper play field to make the game never end, no flow at all. Rules are terrible for experienced pinball players.

[00:21:32.550] - Greg
It was funny because at Expo every year. They would switch between which manufacturer sponsored the tournament every year. And usually that manufacturer would give away one of their recent games. And so, like, one year Data East did it or Sega did it. And I think Maverick might have been the tournament game. And then the winner got a wrestling one instead. They got a WWF that they just happened to have sitting around at the factory.

[00:22:02.630] - Alex
I mean, between those two, I'd rather have the WWF, but that's just me.

[00:22:08.010] - Greg
 It just felt like a slap in the face at the time.

[00:22:11.130] - Speaker 5
All right, and the final one I have is Peterchuringa says, "I hate this stupid pinball!"

[00:22:17.470] - Alex
That's it?

[00:22:18.700] - Alan
He just wrote, I hate this stupid pinball.

[00:22:24.670] - Alex
Offended him personally.

[00:22:26.210] - Alan
He wrote only that as a review. That's funny.

[00:22:29.260] - Greg
Maybe that's what I should write for Stern Star Wars.

[00:22:33.010] - Alex
That's all you need to say for Stern Star Wars, I think everyone already knows why you would hate it.

[00:22:41.350] - Alan
All right, so you have any last words on WWF Royal Rumble? Greg, anything else you want to say?

[00:22:47.030] - Greg
No, I don't think so. I just think people should give the Data East games more of a chance and stop comparing them to Addam's Family. Like everything sucks compared to Addams Family. Sure, play them and accept them on their own merits and just kind of lean into the cheesiness. There's a lot of fun there to be had.

[00:23:09.390] - Alex
100% I agree.

[00:23:10.780] - Alan
I like WWf Royal rumble, but I also like a lot of those other data east games.

[00:23:16.340] - Alan
And every time I see one, I'm always trying to play it. I love playing those games because you don't ever see them anymore and they have such a bad reputation.

[00:23:25.830] - Alex
You got to play them.

[00:23:26.770] - Alan
Yep, you got to play them. Make up your own mind. So we're going to end this episode of Die on this Hill with a plea for everyone to go out, and find a Royal Rumble, use the pinball map, find one near you and go play it. And then make up your own mind about it.

[00:23:41.600] - Alan
You can send any emails to wedgeheadinfo@gmail.com , I want to hear your thoughts on it. We'll probably post a poll when this episode goes live on seeing what other people think of royal rumble, and we'll post it to Instagram. Thank you once again for listening to the Wedgehead pinball podcast. I want to thank my co host Alex and our guest greg Dunlap for being here.

[00:24:04.270] - Alan
For everyone else. We'll see you next time. Good luck, don't suck.