The American Immigrant with Tanisha Colon-Bibb

In this episode of the Home to Here podcast, we sit down with Tanisha Colon-Bibb, a dynamic entrepreneur from Harlem, New York, who shares her fascinating journey of relocating to Johannesburg, South Africa. Tanisha recounts how a visit to Cape Town in 2019 for a friend's wedding led to meeting her South African husband in a serendipitous encounter at a nightclub. This fateful meeting eventually led her to leave behind her bustling life in New York City to start a new chapter in Johannesburg, a city that now feels like home.

During the episode, Tanisha reflects on her experience as a native New Yorker, from growing up in Harlem to building a successful public relations and talent management agency. She compares the fast-paced, hustle-driven culture of New York with the more relaxed, community-oriented lifestyle in South Africa, sharing how this transition has shaped her both personally and professionally. Tanisha also dives into the challenges of adjusting to life in a new country, from experiencing loadshedding to navigating cultural and social dynamics in Johannesburg.

Tanisha offers listeners valuable insights on building a global business while managing local challenges and how she embraced her new life in South Africa. The episode touches on important topics like the differences in work culture, her deep connections to family and community in New York, and her personal growth as she carves out a new path in Johannesburg. With a blend of humor and heartfelt reflection, this episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the immigrant experience and cross-cultural adaptation.

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Transcript

00:00:08:09 - 00:00:35:25
Tiya
Hi, everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of Home to Here At Home to Here we talk to adults, immigrants about their journey from their home country to wherever they are today and today's episode. And I say that about every episode, but I'm so excited about today's episode because I was speaking to Tanisha, who guides guess what? She is based in Johannesburg, South Africa hometown, and a native New Yorker who is based in Johannesburg, South Africa.

00:00:35:28 - 00:00:43:24
Tiya
Like, it's like a life in reverse. And I it's actually pretty similar. Good morning, Tanisha. Well, good afternoon to you. How are you?

00:00:43:26 - 00:00:48:14
Tanisha
Yes, good afternoon. On this side of the world, I'm free. I cannot complain. How are you guys?

00:00:48:18 - 00:01:01:09
Tiya
All five? Thank you, Teresa. I'd like. I'm so envious on every level possible. Envious of your location. Envious off the weather. It is snowing in D.C. today.

00:01:01:12 - 00:01:21:21
Tanisha
I miss the snow. I'm not going to lie. I miss the snow. And this war of fires and hot chocolate. And just think. And I want to say, you know what? You should have left. We have to hurry this interview along with this loadshedding in less than an hour. So it's a tradeoff.

00:01:21:24 - 00:01:42:14
Tiya
It is what I was I thought I will take loadshedding of a snow any day, but let's get into it. So today you're in the you're in Johannesburg. I've already let the cat out of the bag, the watch as well. And what you do and what and what led you there. I know how I found you.

00:01:42:17 - 00:02:18:11
Tanisha
Yes, Yes, of course. Who I got here I love. Let's just cut to the chase. People love a love story. I came in 2019 for my friend, my good friends wedding in Cape Town. A lot of us all travel from the States to South Africa to Cape Town for this wedding in 2019. And I just the universe met my husband in the club, which is very on brand because I like well, I used to be a huge predictor.

00:02:18:12 - 00:02:41:05
Tanisha
I'm just kind of like a mini. And so, yes, so we met in the club and we hit it off like immediately. And our relationship kind of grew from there. It was us jumping around the world together on trips. And so COVID and then us developing a really strong relationship during COVID because all we had was face time and conversations and we really got to know each other, which is great.

00:02:41:07 - 00:02:56:23
Tanisha
And then in October 2020, I jumped over to South Africa as soon as the travel ban was lifted. And I've been here ever since with a beautiful sign. This was 16 months old and just growing our lives together.

00:02:56:25 - 00:03:10:11
Tiya
Oh, my gosh. That is amazing. First of all, congratulations on everything. We love the love story. So, yes, thank you for sharing that with us. Let just out of curiosity, is your husband South African?

00:03:10:14 - 00:03:15:18
Tanisha
He is, yes, he is. One reason South African And from Cape Town.

00:03:15:20 - 00:03:24:26
Tiya
That is also quite interesting. I will step back into that and I want to hear about that experience. As a person who was living in New York, dating meant something.

00:03:24:29 - 00:03:33:26
Tanisha
But I'm sorry for you. You say I had to jump 8000 miles away, so I'm sorry.

00:03:33:29 - 00:04:03:03
Tiya
But I mean, I'd love to talk about how I came across your story was CNBC was writing this series talking about like millennials and how they're spending their money. And I saw you talking about having moved to South Africa and what the cost of living is there versus, you know, what you're saying in New York. And at that time I didn't have this podcast, but I knew that I wanted to start having conversations with immigrants about the experience.

00:04:03:05 - 00:04:18:25
Tiya
So I kind of kept that in the talk and at the right time, now that, you know, everything has come together really fortuitously, I'm so glad that we're able to have this conversation and to vent of how the universe just put everything together.

00:04:18:28 - 00:04:28:26
Tanisha
So literally, my life has changed dramatically since that interview, which is so crazy. That was 2021.

00:04:28:28 - 00:04:36:15
Tiya
So tell us about what was your left in New York like? What was going up in New York? Everybody loves to hear the story about the native New Yorker.

00:04:36:18 - 00:05:05:02
Tanisha
The great city in the world. I am a true New Yorker through and through. I love concrete, I love trains, I love everything about New York. I love Chinese food, I love New York pizza. I love everything. I was born and raised in New York City, in Harlem, places Mississippi. I thoroughly enjoy being from New York. I truly think it is the best city in the world.

00:05:05:02 - 00:05:32:09
Tanisha
Mainly because of all the different types of people that you come across and all the different types of people that are in New York. So I've just I have friends from all walks of life because I'm from there also, like, it just teaches you that there is a grit, There's a little bit of like a garden that is New York, but I don't know, I enjoy like being from New York and having that car and using it where necessary, being very confident.

00:05:32:09 - 00:05:52:22
Tanisha
I would say New Yorkers are extremely confident. People, and I do enjoy that. So, yeah, growing up in New York was great. I went to an independent school on the Upper East Side of Manhattan Country School, which I loved and actually took us up. So people on the estate, well, I guess they do understand, but they don't talk about a lot, is that New York is like the like the state.

00:05:52:24 - 00:06:12:04
Tanisha
The city is very small. And so, yeah, my school that I used to go to used to take us up to a farm that they owned up and ride New York, upstate New York three times a year, which really put the foundations down for my desire to have a farm. And I love animals and I love farm life in it because I am a city girl.

00:06:12:04 - 00:06:33:04
Tanisha
But but yeah, so from there I went to boarding school and like outside of Boston and Andover, Massachusetts. And then from there I went to Spelman. So I kind of left New York on the day to day when I was about 14. But if anyone knows anything about New York is we grew up very fast, so about 40 miles, basically like 30.

00:06:33:06 - 00:06:56:21
Tanisha
But so yeah, I went to college in Atlanta and then I moved back with my adult life to New York full time, which was definitely a slap in the face because youth is very expensive, it's very difficult to live in. And I started my business there and I was lucky enough to take over my parents apartment, rent stabilized apartment, which is like a blessing in New York.

00:06:56:24 - 00:07:21:09
Tanisha
For those who don't know, that's stabilized. It seems that someone signed a lease maybe in the seventies or the eighties, and New York is not legally able to increase their rent dramatically, so they only increased it incrementally. And so the rent stayed pretty low. And so, yeah, and so I built my business. They started my businesses, but my business, my friends were all there.

00:07:21:09 - 00:07:55:14
Tanisha
I had a pretty it was it was tough because New York is expensive, but it was a pretty comfortable life environment that I did a public relations and marketing company. So strategic communications company in New York started in entertainment, and it was about the hustle Network, breathing people, all that stuff. And then in 2019, I started a talent agency where we represent we brand manage talent from all walks of life creators, chemists, sports players, actors.

00:07:55:17 - 00:08:00:18
Tanisha
And so I started in 2019, and I do run both businesses at asset level.

00:08:00:20 - 00:08:12:02
Tiya
Oh, wow. I know you were telling. Now you take us to the moment when you were starting to talk to your family and friends and being like, Guys, I'm going South Africa. What will their reactions to that.

00:08:12:03 - 00:08:40:11
Tanisha
News in our conversation didn't happen, so there was no reaction. I think when I first met my husband, I said to Africa, okay, let me take you back. When we first met, it was very like happenstance. He wanted me to come back immediately. So I did. I came back in nine days from coming back to New York, nine days later, I was on a flight back.

00:08:40:13 - 00:09:04:18
Tanisha
Now I only told my sister and my best friends at the time flew all 8000 miles and had a great time, came back. The second time I went to Africa again. I only told my sister, my best friends, but my mom and I speak a lot and so she was trying to get in contact with me. And because this had a little difference in me being a mother and having fun, I just was missing phone calls.

00:09:04:20 - 00:09:44:13
Tanisha
And then of course, she started the rounds asking where I am, what I'm doing, and my niece. But it's late that I was in Johannesburg and my mom splits her list, to say the least. Threat is to imprison my current husband, who was just my boyfriend at the time, for kidnaping me. So there was a lot there. So I think what really helped them be okay with me coming in October 2020 was the fact that me and him helps every day holiday during COVID and I would stay with my parents at the time they had a house and I didn't want to be in the city or in the apartment.

00:09:44:15 - 00:10:07:23
Tanisha
And so she would seem to go to him and engaging with him and our relationship growing. So I think that she felt like comfortable enough to allow me to go. Plus, I was 32. So but also I'm also kind of a wild child. And so I feel like my parents are always ready for me to do something or say something that's a little outlandish.

00:10:07:23 - 00:10:26:01
Tanisha
So I think it was a beautiful storm of all of those things, so that when I told everyone that I was going, I had been talking about this man for months and months and being in love with him for months and months, that everyone was just kind of like says we're actually tied up. So you should actually.

00:10:26:03 - 00:10:30:25
Tiya
I love that. And who you really gave your parents a big scare.

00:10:30:27 - 00:10:33:20
Tanisha
I'm not happy I.

00:10:33:22 - 00:10:37:26
Tiya
Was going South Africa for your friend's wedding the first time. Your first time in Africa.

00:10:37:29 - 00:11:08:09
Tanisha
Yeah. You know what? Ironically, no. I came to South Africa when I was 15 for an exchange program for, like, six weeks in Simon's town in Cape Town. So, like, right outside of the city, up in the mountains. And I like it was a bunch of high school kids from South Africa, from Europe, and from the States. And I love I remember like I remember certain things about it so distinctively, but I don't and I had like a trauma that my mom put, like my the date that I left.

00:11:08:12 - 00:11:24:00
Tanisha
It's like these things that I look back on now and I'm like, I would never in a million years thought that I would've moved back to South Africa. It started out like, No, yeah. And then I've been to Ghana and I've been to Kenya and Botswana goes.

00:11:24:02 - 00:11:43:28
Tiya
Oh my goodness. So why did you and your husband decide on South Africa? Because it could have gone the other way and you could have come to New York. And I mean, when you're thinking about it, like economically, you like when people say he's from an immigrant African immigrant perspective, it's like you want to move to the place of the very economy.

00:11:44:01 - 00:11:50:27
Tiya
So just out of curiosity, why did you guys decide for you to go to South Africa as opposed to moving to New York?

00:11:51:00 - 00:12:16:02
Tanisha
He does not prescribe to America the beautiful, I will tell you that. But he has been and zero size does not recommend. And so I think one, he is a professional cricket player, so he has to be on the continent. So to do his job specifically in South Africa and so and he has no interest in retiring soon.

00:12:16:02 - 00:12:39:01
Tanisha
So that was kind of like a no brainer. I'm an entrepreneur anywhere. He has to be in South Africa. And so and so that was kind of a no brainer. And also like, yeah, he never really had this like extreme desire to move to the states. It's never something I had brought up to me. Yeah, I think he just had some things that he needed to finish and accomplish here.

00:12:39:01 - 00:12:41:29
Tanisha
And I was down with the States for sure.

00:12:42:01 - 00:12:59:08
Tiya
And for you to make that decision to leave the US with some of the things that you considered, you know, because you had a whole life. And it's not like when I moved to the US, like I had said, like, I mean, I was coming to grad school, so I was prepared for that to make that move. And, you know, everything that that, that it encompassed.

00:12:59:11 - 00:13:15:07
Tiya
But for you, I mean, yes, by the time you move like when COVID happ like when the COVID restrictions were lifted, you kind of were prepared. But as much that you had been preparing yourself for, like, you know, a year or two. So what were some of those considerations?

00:13:15:10 - 00:13:35:03
Tanisha
I think like it was so much easier, just like with the bandaid off and go and I was so focused on just being with him that I really didn't even think of it as moving at the time. And then it just kind of like transformed into that. I would say that was the, the rancid dollar ratio did not hurt me.

00:13:35:06 - 00:13:59:27
Tanisha
I do make USD. So definitely that did that hurt. And then being with him, I just this was just my personality. I just felt like everything will work out. Like I just I need to knew that this person needs to be in this place like everything. And I visited South Durban and Jo'burg before I made that move. And so I always felt super comfortable in the country.

00:14:00:00 - 00:14:16:26
Tanisha
So it wasn't like there was literally no hesitation. But I feel like that is one a little like the country of South Africa and how beautiful and welcoming it is. And to part of my personality is like I just jump in there to figure things out.

00:14:16:28 - 00:14:27:16
Tiya
And moving, you know, like I'd visited South Africa, like you said, you visited, you know, various provinces almost at various. And so that's life. That's when you need to find.

00:14:27:19 - 00:14:29:27
Tanisha
Out where it is again.

00:14:29:29 - 00:14:59:09
Tiya
And now in the various province. But there's so one like but, you know, living and visiting our favorite different things. So what was that expectation there as a visitor to know you have to go to pick and bathe. Weren't buying toothpaste and toilet paper versus like you know you're like living at your man's place and like everything is there and now it's like drive on either side of the road.

00:14:59:12 - 00:15:03:20
Tiya
No public transport did not say knock on the door. Well, compared to New York.

00:15:03:22 - 00:15:32:21
Tanisha
Like compared to New York. But that's an anomaly. I think that, like, I don't know, I just never I always felt very comfortable, like and I don't know, I just I didn't have any of those hesitations or things. I mean, there are things that I miss about the city, mainly the walkability of it, like being able to go outside and go wherever I want to go, or the loadshedding is definitely another one.

00:15:32:21 - 00:15:56:21
Tanisha
I like the way things work sometimes with like airtime data and prepaid electricity, just like those things that I had to get used to. But honestly, when I came to visit Joburg, I took a few business meetings which probably really, really sealed the deal for me because I took a few business meetings with potential like talent or partners or people that I would work with, and I just felt like I could be like, this is possible.

00:15:56:24 - 00:16:15:24
Tanisha
And I knew like if they took me to I think Melville was one of my first meeting with and I was like, Wow, this is like a really cool bar like. So it felt very normal, you know what I mean? And I've been like I said, I've been to that, I've been to Kenya, I've been to Botswana, and I've never felt that way about any of those countries.

00:16:15:24 - 00:16:26:20
Tanisha
I just feel like South Africa is like they like to say Africa one on one. So it is a really easy transition, in my opinion. It's easier than maybe some other African people. I was.

00:16:26:20 - 00:16:38:13
Tiya
Okay and you've mentioned like terms that obviously that I'm familiar with, but for your friends from America who might be listening to Southern, what loadshedding, it.

00:16:38:16 - 00:16:53:28
Tanisha
Adds that, you know, when I first started, like taking meetings from here, I had to literally link articles about loadshedding for my clients because I'd be like, Oh, I know this would mean at this time they're supposed to be closed. Because I was still kind of like if you got the schedule. But once I got a topic, I was like, It's actually load shedding can we like?

00:16:53:28 - 00:17:18:09
Tanisha
And I had to link articles because we really don't know. But loadshedding is I'm, I'm saying this my definition is when the Eskom, the electrical provider, electricity provider shuts down. That's just to save it or to like keep it low. We're still not quite sure about that, but.

00:17:18:12 - 00:17:25:29
Tiya
When it shifted to other places. So no, not everyone, you know, like when is when you can have all the lights on in the house at the same time. So that's really.

00:17:25:29 - 00:17:28:29
Tanisha
What it is going to shut the lights off.

00:17:29:01 - 00:17:52:26
Tiya
So they set the microgrid. One other people can get lights in another room. You can see so far this year they're spending the whole study alone is not enough. So they have to spread it around. So but yes, I think that's another to be used as data and something that you spoke about, which is that, you know, when you move, they felt quite normal and things, you know, felt possible from a business standpoint.

00:17:52:29 - 00:18:19:07
Tiya
What what are some of the like opportunities economically that you see? Because, you know, sometimes as I'm sitting here and I constantly think about should I come back home, should I stay here? And I'm looking at like the outlook from an economic standpoint. And sometimes it's a bleak truth to hearing from you. Like when you are looking for like, you know, like potential the landscape for your business.

00:18:19:07 - 00:18:28:18
Tiya
Specifically, what are areas of poles that you are finding in South Africa and then just across Africa, the continent in general? Yeah.

00:18:28:21 - 00:18:58:25
Tanisha
Like what is having a very I mean, I think I'm not privy to local economics, right? Because I don't have a local town. I don't really know. I still work heavily in the States, make you see all of those things. So like I never really look at the economic landscape of the country and how it affects my business because it doesn't directly all the way affect my business that we get in some local work.

00:18:58:25 - 00:19:32:25
Tanisha
And so like refigure out rates and different things based on like local thresholds. But I always wanted to run a global business. Europe states with them. And so that's where my mind is always like when it comes to economics, it's like global, you know, what's the potential here? And so even when I do sign my here, my number one thing is that they are a global talent, like somebody that I can expand into this area.

00:19:32:25 - 00:19:59:08
Tanisha
So is it the UK or the U.S.? Because that's important to me. So I don't think I work enough locally to like have it impact me on a day to day. I really want to take South Africa to the world. Right. And respect to that right and and working with South Africans to make that happen. I'm very aware that I'm like coming from another place, but that is my real goal, is to take South Africa to the world.

00:19:59:08 - 00:20:09:11
Tanisha
So the local intricacies, I don't always get caught up in that. Yeah, I just I'm working from a global perspective.

00:20:09:13 - 00:20:13:18
Tiya
I, I really like that. I like that. That's, that's quite spot on.

00:20:13:20 - 00:20:38:20
Tanisha
So I want to add one more thing. And so to me, because I work mainly in entertainment, there's so much potential because I feel like the world appetite for South Africa in particular, but African culture, entertainment, talent, the needs is this. Plus, like the desire to have African talent speak on the global stage, entertainment, global stage and all that stuff.

00:20:38:20 - 00:20:46:17
Tanisha
So I would say maybe not economically, but definitely as far as talent is concerned, there's definitely opportunity.

00:20:46:19 - 00:20:55:23
Tiya
That's great. Maybe I should come back home and so you have an album, are this high stress?

00:20:55:25 - 00:21:17:29
Tanisha
Well, and I stress free, but you know, I don't know. There's a lift. There's a lift that I feel when I get to South Africa. I get that there's a happy I love New York, but there is a heaviness with the grind culture of New York in the States in general. I mean, obviously LA's a little bit more lax or whatever, but there is like a Western crying culture that I feel like is lifted from me here.

00:21:18:01 - 00:21:37:28
Tanisha
Very simply. Like most people are not aware in South Africa, most people are either back next week or the first Fed, and it's like normal. Like no, like they took December off most off and like, we're going to go back to work. Like, you know, what we feel is the best. And I feel like Western culture is the opposite of that.

00:21:38:01 - 00:21:49:09
Tanisha
And so there is a little bit of what we left as far as like enjoying life more that I'm glad to balance with my Western.

00:21:49:12 - 00:22:23:29
Tiya
Awesome. And I want to talk about that like so, you know, here you're in the, you know, your country and you know, corporate culture, American work culture like you've spoken about, you know, the grind, the need to constantly be performing and producing. Yes. And how have you, in contrast to, you know, South Africa, like in as much as working like in the intricacies of, you know, like day to day corporate South Africa, how how do you find South African work culture as you're looking at your your community, your friends, your husband?

00:22:24:01 - 00:22:29:02
Tiya
How are you finding South African culture in contrast to the US? Well.

00:22:29:04 - 00:22:52:07
Tanisha
I think that's a little unfair because the US is like literally seven days a week. I feel like I don't want to say there's a little lag. I'm going to say that, but I would say that in general I would say in comparison there is a little bit more of a lax mentality about work and maybe not as proactive.

00:22:52:08 - 00:23:15:28
Tanisha
Now, there are outliers. There are people that I've met that complete go getters and all these things, right? But I continue to have this conversation with people that a lot of it is tied to democracy, apartheid, the culture. And I mean, like a lot of things that, you know, people go back home in the world, you know, like traditional family, like prioritizing family and ancestors.

00:23:15:28 - 00:23:42:13
Tanisha
Like there's a lot of things there that I think are the reason for the difference. And what I like to do is take a little bit of both. So I bring a lot of aggressiveness and a little bit of like proactive ness to the table, which I think people enjoy. But then I've also learned how to be quiet and a little bit more patient and come from a different perspective from my work with South African.

00:23:42:15 - 00:24:09:17
Tanisha
So I just would say that it is a little bit like grind culture over time, which is good, I think, you know, and, and I think no one should be their job. No, it should be the professional title. So I love that South Africans love to go out and to party and love to celebrate themselves. And I think I think that's a that's a beautiful thing.

00:24:09:17 - 00:24:30:04
Tanisha
And I think the work will come. I think, like, again, 30 years of democracy this year, not a lot of time. Yeah. To have your own life be able to live your own life. And so I think it's like this whole time I've been like celebration mode and I think it'll come when it's supposed to.

00:24:30:06 - 00:24:42:11
Tiya
Yeah. And I mean, for me, I really as much as like, yes, now I'm here and what I've observed, at least from looking at the American work culture versus having worked in both environments, I feel that.

00:24:42:11 - 00:24:45:01
Tanisha
Americans.

00:24:45:03 - 00:24:46:09
Tiya
So that again this.

00:24:46:11 - 00:24:47:20
Tanisha
Is that you're in corporate.

00:24:47:23 - 00:24:48:21
Tiya
Australia is a.

00:24:48:22 - 00:24:52:07
Tanisha
Little different. But yeah you have a different perspective as you.

00:24:52:09 - 00:25:07:23
Tiya
So yes, having been signed up I have my own legal consulting firm, so I did run up a business of my own. Plus I was opened in a big law firm as I was an associate in a big law firm for a while. So I have seen kind of both sides in South Africa and then same in the US.

00:25:07:23 - 00:25:42:28
Tiya
And I was in New York. I ran a startup after grad school and then now I'm in DC in the biggest bank in the world. So kind of having, you know, those, those experiences that are seen as best I feel Americans talk about their work all the time. So I'm going to walk over. Just don't talk about all the time like the work is being done, things are happening, things are being delivered, but it's not like what we need with, you know, whereas like Americans, I feel like work forward, like, whoa.

00:25:43:00 - 00:26:02:14
Tanisha
Relax. So much validation to your point and like productivity in the States. It's like if you're not doing anything, you're not doing anything. And one of the we live in D.C. but one of the things I hate about it and I noticed it in comparison to other cities is that DC people, then they leave with what do you do not like who you are?

00:26:02:14 - 00:26:20:10
Tanisha
Or like, how are you? Or it's like, Oh, what's your name? What do you do? And I mean, this is just one of the cities, right? The most politics and government town, whatever NGOs are like, isn't that so? Like, look, people like to know so they they can figure out what they can get out of that. And that's the type of DC it's.

00:26:20:10 - 00:26:28:08
Tanisha
But yeah, they used to I used to hate that. I used to hate like why is that your question? Like what I do, you know.

00:26:28:10 - 00:26:32:06
Tiya
You very much resents that, that that's not really you know.

00:26:32:09 - 00:26:36:08
Tanisha
That No one's ever asked me that. So yeah, you're right. That's good.

00:26:36:08 - 00:26:56:26
Tiya
Yeah, it is. And it's been it's. It's something that I miss about being back home just the way that. Yes, we're working. Yes, we take our job seriously, but it's not the most important. Like. So I'm really fighting to keep that part of me. You still still alive. Works like I woke a little bit. Actually. A little bit.

00:26:56:28 - 00:26:59:22
Tiya
I hope my boss is not just doing this.

00:26:59:25 - 00:27:06:01
Tanisha
Like, what are you playing exactly?

00:27:06:04 - 00:27:23:15
Tiya
And as something out, but as you moved, you know, since a lot of your move was, you know, really around being with your partner, how have you what did you know anyone else apart from him and how have you brought out that community outside of him?

00:27:23:17 - 00:27:55:19
Tanisha
Oh, I only knew like one person from the States personally. And so it was I'm I'm taking a long time to answer because this was such a huge part of my depression that first about moving. And so once the honeymoon stage wore off and I realized that that was in a country 8000 miles away from my family, I had this nervous depression that set in because I miss it all.

00:27:55:21 - 00:28:19:11
Tanisha
And I really think people that don't know at the time now, it seems like a long time ago, but like I felt like I couldn't just go home. I don't know why, but it and so there was a really bad period of like, he's my only friend know, I mean, and I'm like only with his friends and all of his friends, girlfriends and only with his cousins.

00:28:19:12 - 00:28:39:02
Tanisha
And and then sometimes when they're around each other, they only speak each person, right? And so it's like I've never I don't ever not change because I'm around. But it's like it just this like the little things about like, jokes that we have in New York or Atlanta or wherever, jokes between my friends that you just come out.

00:28:39:09 - 00:29:04:23
Tanisha
I missed brunch with girlfriends on a Saturday because I didn't have girlfriends. And so it was it was very, very difficult. And it was a big, big issue with that relationship at the beginning because I felt like I was making a big sacrifice and he did it. I realized that it was a big sacrifice because we were going out, we were having fun with the and I'm very close to my friends, and he didn't realize that.

00:29:04:23 - 00:29:25:12
Tanisha
And so he came to the states and actually spent time with my friends and my family. And then he's like, Oh, okay. I see why it was such a big issue to you. And I was like, Yeah, So it was a major issue. And then I got pregnant right now. So then that makes it even more isolated, you know?

00:29:25:14 - 00:29:49:09
Tanisha
And then when I, when I had my son, I decided that I was going to go out and like, go out there. I was going to go to events by myself. I plan to do things by myself because that's the only way that I was going to meet people. And literally and this was February of last year. So it wasn't like a lot of time, but it completely changed my experience here, completely changed.

00:29:49:09 - 00:30:10:06
Tanisha
So now I'm able to go out without him. I have my old friends at my old thing, at my old clients, and my day is not filled with whatever he's doing, but like whatever both of us are doing. And I think that was it was like he even said to this day, like you, great, great to have your own people.

00:30:10:06 - 00:30:22:16
Tanisha
And now look like I'm like, I'm really proud of you. So it was it was tough at the beginning. And even now and then I get like I was with my friends this Saturday, you know what I mean? This weekend or whatever.

00:30:22:18 - 00:30:33:04
Tiya
Thanks for sharing that. Thank you so much for talking about that. And I hope that the moons of South Africa, you know, starting to embrace, you know, that they had my name.

00:30:33:06 - 00:30:34:10
Tanisha
Yeah.

00:30:34:13 - 00:30:47:03
Tiya
I know. Like for us, like with your people, sometimes you just, like, stop speaking English and it's nothing malicious. It's just know there's some things that in this just cannot express sufficient and obviously some.

00:30:47:03 - 00:31:06:04
Tanisha
Sometimes that like understand you know what I mean like the laughing cuz and like sometimes that like get what's being said but see your point is is always that we and my friends that like I just fall into around that. But no I like I love his cousins that are our age his friends they literally have become my friends.

00:31:06:04 - 00:31:20:10
Tanisha
I just wanted my own life, which is just who I am. And I just like having my own face. And and so, yeah, I just I'm really grateful that it has blossomed into that. And I just think that was a journey that it needed to take.

00:31:20:12 - 00:31:47:23
Tiya
Yeah. And for me to think that, okay, so good talking to you about the first of all at that place, that person. Well, I'm glad you got it. So you went to Spelman. For those who don't know, that's an HBCU. So historically black college and university. And I learned how an HBCU and I was actually through Beyoncé when she did the homecoming.

00:31:47:26 - 00:31:50:05
Tiya
Yes a lot this.

00:31:50:08 - 00:31:56:05
Tanisha
There's so much education happening around I'll tell you more based on your questions about that. Yeah.

00:31:56:07 - 00:32:15:21
Tiya
So I mean, you're so in essence, like, you know, you're in a primarily black space and in college at least, and then, you know, New York, Harlem as a black neighborhood. Well, you know, for now kind of individuals. And it's coming hard and fast. And now you're in South Africa. And I kind of like, you know, post-apartheid South Africa, which is now living in a black country.

00:32:15:24 - 00:32:31:15
Tiya
How do you see yourself as a black woman now living in a black country? Do you have your blackness yourself to yourself as a black woman changed from living in the US to now being in South Africa?

00:32:31:17 - 00:32:34:14
Tanisha
Wow. Wow. Would you give me a scenario.

00:32:34:16 - 00:32:40:23
Tiya
So I ask hard questions? I don't know. I don't know. I'm just curious. I'm very curious.

00:32:40:25 - 00:33:09:18
Tanisha
I would say there was nothing at the time that I moved to South Africa that made me feel more black. So I want to explain that. It's like I have identity issues. Maybe when I was younger and then when I went to start, then it was the key experience that allowed one to flourish and being a black woman.

00:33:09:20 - 00:33:34:01
Tanisha
And it is it's undeniably the best decision that my mother made for me and the decision that I made to be there and to have friends that changed and to say that it was after Spelman, you could not tell me anything about my blackness. And even though I still struggled here and there with and just like a business issue.

00:33:34:01 - 00:33:58:01
Tanisha
So I used to go by my middle name, which is Diana, and it's a little bit more racially ambiguous than Sunni-Shia. Right. Which is like kind of clear than a black Ariana like people and I am half Latina, I am Puerto Rican. And so at first I thought that I in that I wouldn't be successful showing up in my blackness, just as tenacious.

00:33:58:02 - 00:34:30:21
Tanisha
Right. And so in my early twenties, I had to go through this coming of age. And I would say that was started in college and really made its way. So when I was 30, for me, I'm black and I'm proudly, gratefully black, and coming to say that I really enjoyed Joe because Cape Town, which I know we probably don't have the time to jump into that, but I really enjoyed this statement just over Is the black city right?

00:34:30:23 - 00:34:52:28
Tanisha
And I felt like I felt really comfortable seeing multiple black faces doing really great things, which I sense in Atlanta, in D.C. and in New York many times. Right. And, you know, it was that was also that led to the comfort of the space for me. I would say that now the only time that that was I would even say challenge.

00:34:52:28 - 00:35:04:28
Tanisha
That might not be the right word. But when I first arrived here and again, we might not have time to get into this other conversation, but I was called colored, as you know, and colored for I'm still think.

00:35:04:28 - 00:35:19:16
Tiya
It's worth getting into because it is something that, you know, there's a lack of understanding around culturally and what it means racially for me, to the extent that you're comfortable talking about that, I would ask you that.

00:35:19:19 - 00:35:44:06
Tanisha
Yeah, of course. I think that I'm also I want to preface this with, like completely still learning completely still confused. Right? Because our idea for one, the word color specifically was used for black people during the civil rights movement as a direct kind of it's not a derogatory term, but just not a term of endearment or like positivity.

00:35:44:08 - 00:36:10:19
Tanisha
They didn't make black people colored. That's just basically an issue when you hear it right. As someone that's an American. Now, if you dive into it, at first I thought it meant that someone was half white, which in American culture is also nonexistent, because if you are black half black, 40, black, eight, black, 16th black, you are black.

00:36:10:23 - 00:36:38:15
Tanisha
So there is no othering of that. It's like you're making people say, you're right, black and all sense of visually how people perceive you and experience you and all those things, especially darker tones, features, hair. They're going to be like, Oh, she has a black on her. She black, right? So at first that's how I thought of it, because my only idea what call it reason at the time was Trevor Noah and he is white.

00:36:38:17 - 00:37:04:27
Tanisha
So I was like, okay, but maybe they think I'm half granted, my hair's fine, I'm light skinned. I get it right. But then as I'm meeting colored people and understanding that it's more of a culture and more of like a type of people versus like being black and white, you know, it's so much more than fine hair and light skin.

00:37:05:00 - 00:37:24:18
Tanisha
There's colors people like. These are things like being around other people and actually speaking with them about their experience, which was the person that I was with at the time. A friend of mine, a girl she was saying that she feels is very a race in this country like colored experiences, not seen physically in like TV and film a lot, which is true.

00:37:24:21 - 00:37:43:03
Tanisha
I don't see a lot of it. I see some of it's not like nowhere. There's not a lot. And it's also where that's also I think this whole in that too. There are no like love stories or beautiful stories. It's always about like the alcohol, like period or like a, you know, like against Jinx Kid or you know, yeah, this.

00:37:43:05 - 00:38:02:14
Tanisha
So I'm still learning. I haven't I'm not as offended as I was at the beginning because obviously, how can I be offended? I'm in another country. This is what people think. Whatever the most I can say it's no, I'm black, which is what I always say, No, I'm black. And then they when they realize I'm American, they're like, okay, you're black, right?

00:38:02:16 - 00:38:36:20
Tanisha
Yeah, all white. I mean, I've even I've been called white. I've been said that my husband is white. It's a lot of things. But again, never have I felt like anger or anything because it's like, this is not my culture. Say like I'm black. My kids were when my son was born, to go to the hospital. The attendant who was citing him and I saw him because he was filling out a form and he got to race and he paused and he asked me if he was black.

00:38:36:22 - 00:39:05:20
Tanisha
And I was like, You, you know, he's like, is he black or colored? And I was like, Wow, he's black. But, you know, I again, it's the way of the world is this world. And so still learning, so very interested in the history and culture of colored people and very, very interested in that. Even Indians in South that I'm very interested in just the culture dynamics of South Africa.

00:39:05:20 - 00:39:22:06
Tanisha
I think there's very little that you need, and I'm excited to continue to learn to be a part of and begin to have this out here. But I just tell people that I'm black and I think once they know I'm American, you know, it's really not an issue after that.

00:39:22:09 - 00:39:41:24
Tiya
And just fun that. So thank you for for talking about that. And just on that, when you think about how South Africans discuss race, do you think it's different to the way Americans talk about race? I mean, I moved to New York. It was like right at the time of George Floyd. My name is George Floyd. And, you know, in the wake of global protests of BlackLivesMatter.

00:39:41:26 - 00:39:54:23
Tiya
So I felt like at that time, honestly, I was like, these are like, I'm I'm observing the problems of this country. Like my.

00:39:54:26 - 00:39:56:12
Tanisha
Issues.

00:39:56:15 - 00:40:24:20
Tiya
But I mean, like now it's I've lived here longer and I've gotten to know American people and I've gotten more into the society and understand the culture. I guess we're all integrated in the struggle and we all need to be liberated now. Yes. Now I'm going to live in Manhattan, you know, like cause like, I don't know what like, I mean, this is terrible as a black person, but like, I need the solution that I don't know what I can contribute to this.

00:40:24:23 - 00:40:46:29
Tiya
So now that you're in South, that's not very you talk about like you don't when people, you know my name, yo yo yo yo you racial identity it with anger and I guess that's because you're like this is not my country not my culture per say. So I do think that's the way we discuss race in as black people in South Africa.

00:40:47:00 - 00:40:48:27
Tiya
The US is different.

00:40:49:00 - 00:41:20:22
Tanisha
Absolutely. I think that even when I tell people that racism is so prevalent in the States, they're like, it's like they don't even believe that it's because he's the son of a police officer killing a black person in South Africa. It's not even it's not even fathomable, you know, And they mean it's not even a thing. But yeah, no, I absolutely think but I think it's because I have those very different civil rights and Jim Crow and and slavery is different.

00:41:20:24 - 00:41:42:13
Tanisha
You guys are from here. You know, as white colonizers can't come in and say, we brought you here, go back to your country like this is your country here and me like there is there's differences in our history that have allowed for this moment in time and allow for the disrespect with black bodies, black women, black men in the states.

00:41:42:16 - 00:42:06:05
Tanisha
It's because this idea of we don't belong there versus here, where it's like, actually, you guys are the majority and you do belong here. And it's it's really just an act of how we're economically and politically, right? It's economic and political and cultural. It's geographical. It's geographical here, too. If you think about townships and displacement and all that other stuff.

00:42:06:05 - 00:42:45:05
Tanisha
But it's it's it's a different they're just different states that have racism. And so in the states now I would say like I've never seen a that in South Africa, not once in my entire four years in in the States that they're all white. But it's because police officers historically are from slave officers. So like men who would be on horses and kind of monitor slaves and their work, they then they are the historical foundation of what policing and police officers are today in the country.

00:42:45:08 - 00:43:05:03
Tanisha
And so, of course, they're all them because they're all part of the KKK, the plantation driver, you know what I mean? So like, but here it's like 85% of the country is. Well, you know, and I mean, so it's like, who do you think is going after the police force and, you know, and thinking about job security and all these things, you know, so and who needs the job security, Right.

00:43:05:05 - 00:43:38:11
Tanisha
I think that yes, I think that absolutely race is different. But I think that that's what makes me so excited about being here. Is that to your point, we're all black. You know, at the end of the day, and we all need to be empowered. And the best way to do that is to sit and listen and read and understand each of our struggles in each of these local contexts and like use that as fuel to just progress together.

00:43:38:13 - 00:44:11:20
Tanisha
Like, I'm just love just being here and observing and being around people and hearing stories. I love knowing more and more about South Africa and South Africans every single day, and I love teaching my small perspective, being a black American. And I think if we all just like listen to so much to change, so much to change. So so yeah, there are so many differences.

00:44:11:23 - 00:44:16:00
Tanisha
There's so many similarities.

00:44:16:02 - 00:44:33:14
Tiya
And maybe just like one more kind of that on a bigger topic and talking about another and something that's really important, at least in the U.S. that I've come to learn about, is no maternal health care. You talk about your pregnancy journey. Sounds like you did all of that in South Africa. So why would you I mean, your mom is in the U.S..

00:44:33:14 - 00:44:58:26
Tiya
I would have imagined that, like, you know, whatever, six months, eight months, A lot of women, actually African women, some of my friends included, would come to the U.S. to come and give birth to their kids so that it gives a lot of Americans citizenship. Yeah, they move yet like six months and then they like, you know, rent an Airbnb and they wait to come in like when the baby is two months or they come back home so that the kids are born of U.S. citizenship.

00:44:58:28 - 00:45:00:13
Tanisha
Oh, wow.

00:45:00:16 - 00:45:13:29
Tiya
Yeah. So it's. So you decided to have your son in South Africa. I mean, you come back home to New York and, you know, why did you opt to to have a baby in South Africa?

00:45:14:02 - 00:45:37:21
Tanisha
I think this is also one of those things that I like the perspective of people. Right. My perspective, it's not that America is this land of opportunity and my son is going to be an American citizen without having me because I'm so like my just my reasoning has nothing to do with that. Right. The future as American citizen is said, Right?

00:45:37:22 - 00:46:13:12
Tanisha
Yeah. So I think that's one still I, I the black maternal health issue in America is enormous. Like beyond I think what the data even says, what people can't even comprehend. I was scared to have a baby in the States. I was one how much it would cost me to if I would find a gynecologist, an ob gyn that I truly trusted and loved because I wanted someone black, and three having my partner for the process.

00:46:13:12 - 00:46:32:21
Tanisha
So my partner was actually more important than my mom because this was his child. So and then the deciding factor really was the fact that he is See, my son was born in September and his season starts at parties. So if I were have stayed in the States and have a baby, he would not have met his son.

00:46:32:21 - 00:46:51:20
Tanisha
And so he was maybe three or four months old. And so that was too big of a I didn't want I wanted him to have skin skin contact the day I wanted him to be there with me, to have that opportunity to connect with his son immediately, as opposed to three or four months later. And so it was kind of a no.

00:46:51:20 - 00:47:18:00
Tanisha
And I met LGBT man and I just connected with all three of us, me, my partner, and he connected very well. Listen to me. He went through different scenarios with me. I never felt rushed out of the hospital in my appointments and I had a really great working experience financially with something we can support emotionally. It was something that was really beautiful.

00:47:18:03 - 00:47:32:09
Tanisha
And so and then I have my partner is a priority. So yeah, the thought of my kid wasn't even on the list of things because it was it was going to happen anyway.

00:47:32:11 - 00:47:35:24
Tiya
Had has to come to the US. Have you been to New York many times?

00:47:35:26 - 00:47:56:00
Tanisha
He's been there three times. Wow. Three times when he was eight weeks old, I suppose, at Christmas. And so he was in the States with me and his dad for five months. And then I feel like I took all my time. But at least once. At least twice, but maybe three. Okay.

00:47:56:02 - 00:48:04:14
Tiya
Okay. So you have so he's a perfect set. African American. He's our American South African. The South African American, which is a.

00:48:04:15 - 00:48:07:24
Tanisha
He's a real African, you know, he's a South African American.

00:48:07:28 - 00:48:27:20
Tiya
So I love that I we'll talk to you all day. So we had a brief interruption because, you know, Chetty, you can load study. Welcome, you guys like you guys got to experience no cheating and I had to get us weather because it is.

00:48:27:22 - 00:48:28:21
Tanisha
Blowing.

00:48:28:23 - 00:48:33:03
Tiya
Snow right now like I am cold in my own apartment. So, yeah.

00:48:33:04 - 00:48:38:07
Tanisha
Oh, sounds like your work is great.

00:48:38:07 - 00:48:42:18
Tiya
The thing I'm happy about is that, like, we have central heating, so that's really nice.

00:48:42:20 - 00:48:53:25
Tanisha
Yes. Something else for this guy. So I'm hard too, because fact that you guys are not prepared for any sort of cold weather in your homes is crazy. Crazy?

00:48:53:27 - 00:49:05:29
Tiya
Yeah. We we are not cold weather people and we're not ready for it. The but I mean, you have like a dumpster now you've got a two in one. Did you run. No. By the two and one blanket before you move to the you to South Africa, a better.

00:49:05:29 - 00:49:11:22
Tanisha
Warmer two and one blink and gas meters. I've never had to experience any of that. Crazy.

00:49:11:27 - 00:49:31:12
Tiya
So, you know, we're giving you and your experience to. Yes, but this has been such a fun conversation and I'm so excited to definitely schedule the part to last. Now we're going to the Intrepid Fire section, but somebody just came up, as you're talking about, you know, using a different name that you use your second name for a while.

00:49:31:12 - 00:49:46:14
Tiya
And that's also something that can be common, like in South Africa, it's not so good, like where people use like an English name and then you can have your your home name, So you call it the whole name. Now, I know I've had that happen.

00:49:46:14 - 00:50:00:05
Tanisha
Yeah, I've seen that or experience that was people they'll say, Oh, my name is so-and-so, or they'll use the meaning of your name. So if their name means beauty or something like that, then they'll go by beauty as opposed to the actual name.

00:50:00:05 - 00:50:15:15
Tiya
Yes. So it's it's one of those things that that came up as our style thinking about that I fortunately or unfortunately I have one name, Tiffany, but in the US it has been remixed. So I'm grateful for people like Teyana Taylor, but everyone thinks my name is Diane.

00:50:15:17 - 00:50:37:14
Tanisha
A lot of people call me because we're so close in Zimbabwe. They call me Tinashe all the time. Oh, I love. That's a Shona name from Zim. She has to say that the artist, her father is from them. And so yes, people, whenever they see my name, they go to National Treasury. I'm like an issue.

00:50:37:17 - 00:50:57:13
Tiya
That was like set of. I can definitely see that. Tinashe I can see that, yes. And I'm Teyana Taylor or Teyana like with some version of I am grateful that all these names exist because then they help us, the people behind this place. And so I'm grateful for that. Tinashe is in the tiana's off the mix. You can even.

00:50:57:15 - 00:50:59:12
Tanisha
See on is yeah.

00:50:59:15 - 00:51:12:18
Tiya
They have made way for us. So now let's move on to Rapid Fire and we'll try to make this rapid so that we don't have something else happen to Como here.

00:51:12:21 - 00:51:24:28
Tanisha
Oh, no, no, no. I can't live with me rapping about that. Ooh. Mm hmm. That was us.

00:51:25:01 - 00:51:31:17
Tiya
That is so what their intent is supposed to be. Oh, What's your favorite food at home?

00:51:31:19 - 00:51:38:13
Tanisha
Oh, you remember I said I'm Puerto Rican, so chicken and rice.

00:51:38:16 - 00:51:43:27
Tiya
Oh, you're not. Goodness. Okay, I can see that. I went to Puerto Rico and I had the Mad Men group.

00:51:44:02 - 00:51:46:03
Tanisha
My like.

00:51:46:05 - 00:51:59:17
Tiya
Yeah, with the plantain. And, yeah, that was pretty good Mango. Now you're going to see a bacon, egg and cheese. That's not going to be your favorite meal. That's your.

00:51:59:19 - 00:52:19:26
Tanisha
Meal. But as a New Yorker, actually, I ordered a bacon, egg and cheese. So Natasha's frozen? Yes, the one in Rosebank. They have a New York bagel, But I had to tell them, Take this, I'll take that, I'll take that. And I immediately made it and make an egg and cheese. And I was so happy. But yes, that is one of my things I like to eat.

00:52:19:26 - 00:52:24:06
Tanisha
But my favorite is that you always legs.

00:52:24:08 - 00:52:27:10
Tiya
What's your favorite snack in South Africa?

00:52:27:12 - 00:52:49:22
Tanisha
Knickknacks or knickknacks? Snacks. You're saying snack. So yeah. And any fruit because I love how things are in season here. That's not the same in the States you can get it for any time on the interstate but here you can only get mangoes. You only get great like during certain season. So the fruits I would say.

00:52:49:24 - 00:52:55:25
Tiya
For sure I miss that. I miss that terribly. Well, somewhat.

00:52:55:28 - 00:53:01:02
Tanisha
My my husband's going to kill me because I want to call it quits. But I'm quitting.

00:53:01:04 - 00:53:13:07
Tiya
I want to I'm not quitting. I'm actually one of my good friends, does a lot of work with Woolworth's and they have. They love my life.

00:53:13:08 - 00:53:25:03
Tanisha
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had to think that, but I loved it. But I called it that from the beginning. But he's like, It's not that I'm ugly. I'm like, Okay, yes.

00:53:25:09 - 00:53:43:26
Tiya
If it goes boy, it green. Yes. Go miss that Missed that terribly misstep so much if someone who has never heard music from the United States and specifically New York, once you get a flavor of the city, what would you recommend?

00:53:43:29 - 00:54:03:07
Tanisha
Or one of my personal favorites is Monet, Paris, LA, and Little Kim is featured on it. I don't know what my name with that might say of growing up. I'm the baby of four, so like I'm heavily influenced by my siblings who are older and from a different kind of musical generation than me. So I would definitely many respect.

00:54:03:13 - 00:54:14:27
Tanisha
And then on top of that, any song, my Dipset, any song out of Harlem, I'm going to last. So Dipset for sure, because they were like my group when was like 14.

00:54:14:29 - 00:54:31:27
Tiya
Jeff said, I love that. I love I love what you're saying. Time on your thoughts. We oh, we didn't even speak about how you the influence of US media on South African experience and that that's another conversation guys we have to have a part to.

00:54:31:29 - 00:54:33:06
Tanisha
Yes.

00:54:33:09 - 00:54:40:23
Tiya
What is your favorite memory from the US, from your time anywhere any A favorite memory. A memory that endures, that keeps coming back to you?

00:54:40:23 - 00:54:42:14
Tanisha
Oh, my God, honey.

00:54:42:18 - 00:54:49:14
Tiya
Like I did this, I how can I even say.

00:54:49:16 - 00:55:10:27
Tanisha
Okay, I was also how can I even. But I will say that something that I was in the East Rand the other day and then Soweto when I was doing I was dropping people off after a road trip, visiting neighbors. I've never visited and the guy oh, one of the guys I was with asked me a question about that, like, what's different between the hoods and the neighborhoods?

00:55:10:29 - 00:55:38:07
Tanisha
And I told him, I said, there's actually more similarities. Right? And what I love about the hood, right, is that there is a familial energy. People are outside on the street, you know, the person in the corner store that that I just love hits me to my core. So I would say one of my deep core memories is that in Harlem, I live right across the street from a park and it had a handball court and like a tire swing.

00:55:38:07 - 00:55:59:22
Tanisha
All those things I remember specifically, just like my dad playing handball and me on the tires, me and my sister playing around with have friends, you know, And I mean and like us just all being there across the street from our house and this park and like that. A really big part of my childhood being outside because we did live in a small apartment, six of us in a one bedroom apartment.

00:55:59:22 - 00:56:15:11
Tanisha
So being outside was like a privilege, definitely something we took advantage of. And my dad is very active. He's still very active to this day. So yeah, he would play handball, I'd be on the terracing, my sister would be with her friends as a teenager. So I would say that's like a very deep core memory.

00:56:15:13 - 00:56:31:28
Tiya
I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that. That's that's very special. Yeah. Yeah. And what is a very South African thing that you've experienced something where you're like, this only happens in South Africa apart from not sharing.

00:56:32:00 - 00:56:55:04
Tanisha
That's all that is difficult. But okay. Something that just happened to me. Yes. I was in a meeting with a government agency and we were all it was like a group of eyes and we were kind of like discussing and brainstorming an event. And as my ideas came, I would just express them, Oh, I think we should do this.

00:56:55:04 - 00:57:14:13
Tanisha
And I did it. I have them in me a few times. People were like, Are you not going to raise your hands? And I'm like, No, because when I raise my hand, we're having a brainstorming session. Why do I need to raise my hand? And it's I just had a meeting, virtual meeting, and the South African in that meeting literally put up the digital hand raise and we were just going and going and going.

00:57:14:15 - 00:57:35:17
Tanisha
And then he's like, You haven't seen my hand raised. And we're like, We didn't even know what that was about. Why don't you just say what you have to say? He's like, No, because the rudeness of Americans will not infiltrate me and I am going to raise my hands. And if you say something that happens like I've never experienced that, I've never accessible brainstorming and talking and like raising their hand to speak.

00:57:35:17 - 00:57:51:18
Tanisha
So that is very South African that I've experienced. And also during this road trip that I just mentioned, as we're dropping people off, I'm in the I'm in my seat. We drop from one of them like, All right, see you later. The whole car got out except for me.

00:57:51:20 - 00:57:56:05
Tiya
To get of the person and.

00:57:56:07 - 00:58:03:15
Tanisha
We stayed for an extra 20 minutes. We're hugging the person, we're selling them. They're. We're happy they're home with you.

00:58:03:18 - 00:58:05:04
Tiya
And I'm sitting there like, are we?

00:58:05:10 - 00:58:07:14
Tanisha
We've got dropping up.

00:58:07:17 - 00:58:12:15
Tiya
And I want to see the people in the house. How are they doing? Come out next. See you.

00:58:12:18 - 00:58:13:25
Tanisha
I want to show you guys my house.

00:58:14:02 - 00:58:16:21
Tiya
We're like, no, we I have look, I'm like, I have to go.

00:58:16:23 - 00:58:31:23
Tanisha
And I literally told my husband is like, it really shocked me because one of the women was like, oh, because they were making fun of you. Because I was American, of course. But they were like, Oh, your American girl doesn't want to get out of a car. And that's when I noticed that I wasn't doing it and everyone else is doing it.

00:58:31:23 - 00:58:45:04
Tanisha
And I got out of the car and then I realized the next stop, I got out the car that time and I was like, you know, helping the person. But I was like, pay to never, never get another part of that somewhere. Never. That's why go.

00:58:45:06 - 00:58:49:15
Tiya
You get out, get stuff like how you get out and you talk some more because the friendship finished.

00:58:49:20 - 00:58:57:18
Tanisha
Respect. We're hugging, we're giving, we're making sure you have everything in New York that would have kicked you by next network.

00:58:57:19 - 00:59:01:13
Tiya
Yes, that's me and that that's what I'm saying.

00:59:01:13 - 00:59:15:19
Tanisha
Like, I love the influence of certain South African things on my life. Now, the hand raising, I don't know if I give it that, but the to getting out and showing people love and like being with them and spending that extra 15 minutes like a rock with that. I like that.

00:59:15:22 - 00:59:36:21
Tiya
So with that again, this was like we do need to have a part to so ever be speaking to people who moved to the U.S. what we who are now in your country are learning is that no, we should not raise our hand. We should just speak. And we are learning that, you know, to have that like a sense of like confidence being more assertive, which is what you need to survive in this context.

00:59:36:28 - 00:59:40:14
Tiya
But back home, we don't do things like that.

00:59:40:17 - 00:59:41:20
Tanisha
I mean, you know.

00:59:41:22 - 00:59:55:07
Tiya
There's a lot of deference. You defer to another person, you let another person bite you into the conversation. So it is that also cultural difference in the sense that that you're experiencing. But they ask you to have a part to do.

00:59:55:09 - 01:00:08:28
Tanisha
Because one of the things that my husband hates is the like he just feels like people are extremely rude, Like he's just like, I everyone that I mean isn't like I'm like, okay, I'm like, would they act normal to me? But yeah.

01:00:09:00 - 01:00:16:19
Tiya
To us it's like, what is going on? But is that something that is a cultural thing? So a few other episodes.

01:00:16:22 - 01:00:16:26
Tanisha
That.

01:00:17:02 - 01:00:23:07
Tiya
I'll put that people are learning to do that. And now you have that, that's like that.

01:00:23:08 - 01:00:28:06
Tanisha
You have a little bit of manners. I'm learning to have some manners, which is great. Yeah.

01:00:28:09 - 01:00:33:26
Tiya
What are something new that talking about things that you've learned or something new you've learned about yourself in South Africa?

01:00:33:28 - 01:01:11:14
Tanisha
Oh, oh, I learned that. Oh, aggressiveness doesn't equal power right in my day. That I can have power and patience and vulnerability and quiet and maybe even or passiveness. Right? There can be power in those things. I don't always have to show up shouting who I am through my words or actions or whatever. And I'm definitely like.

01:01:11:17 - 01:01:17:26
Tiya
That's great. I love to learn how you learned that lesson, but that's for part two. What is something about Is it the.

01:01:17:26 - 01:01:36:14
Tanisha
Restaurant, by the way? Because I'll be brief, it's in the restaurant. It's because it's known as I'm a little bit assertive. Waiters act like they don't hear me. And that happened almost immediately when I got to the country. If I would be like, Huh, I can't hear you. What? What? And they would literally turn to my husband and be like, And what do you mean?

01:01:36:14 - 01:01:40:24
Tanisha
I'm like it. Like they would just ignore me way.

01:01:40:26 - 01:01:45:25
Tiya
I love that the waitstaff are teaching you something like, No, we're going to school here.

01:01:45:27 - 01:01:51:01
Tanisha
Yes, they definitely do. Definitely.

01:01:51:04 - 01:01:59:27
Tiya
What is something, though, about yourself that you're holding on to? Something that about you from the US that you're holding on so.

01:01:59:29 - 01:02:27:12
Tanisha
Yeah, I think that like somebody who I don't want to say that I'm like, I think that I'm just like, audacious, you know what I mean? And I think that that's who I am. Like this times to show it in that show. And I think I'm learning when is the right time to be audacious as opposed to all the time in the States because you're really protecting yourself in the season especially and working using it as an armored.

01:02:27:15 - 01:02:47:15
Tanisha
I think I'm using it here as an inviting characteristic versus an armor. People, they feel calm around. What's funny because I, I see things that are on my mind and, you know, so I think my audacity for sure but learning how to use it in the right context.

01:02:47:18 - 01:03:02:08
Tiya
MM That's true. That's something I definitely learned to New York to use like to have like an armor, like the rule on the subway. If you see anything, like you saw nothing. Don't look at anyone. Don't split anyone. Don't talk to anyone. Mind your business.

01:03:02:09 - 01:03:02:17
Tanisha
Plan.

01:03:02:17 - 01:03:06:17
Tiya
Your business of that doesn't. Okay. What's going on.

01:03:06:19 - 01:03:08:15
Tanisha
With the business?

01:03:08:18 - 01:03:16:12
Tiya
Although here in the US, it's very much like as front, I focus.

01:03:16:14 - 01:03:28:09
Tanisha
In you know, never know what the like saying in the subway in the New York subway is if you see something, say something. Nobody is saying anything anything.

01:03:28:12 - 01:03:35:24
Tiya
What form of non financial support Jewish existed for you when you arrived in South Africa?

01:03:35:27 - 01:03:42:10
Tanisha
You Oh, I know what form of nonfinancial support like publicly or within my personal faith.

01:03:42:12 - 01:03:50:15
Tiya
Just within your personal space.

01:03:50:18 - 01:04:11:11
Tanisha
Ooh, that's tough. But I think it goes back to like one of my issues where, like, I feel like maybe I would have loved, like, networking opportunities with women my age made me even more American women my age. I feel like a lot of the American women I meet are a bit older, maybe in their forties or fifties, and they're here on retirement visas or other things.

01:04:11:12 - 01:04:26:25
Tanisha
They're in a different part of their lives. I felt like at the time I was early thirties. I mean, I'm only 35 now, but I was like 32, you know? So I was still very young. I was still going out. I didn't have a baby yet and I didn't really feel like there was a community of women like that.

01:04:26:28 - 01:04:31:17
Tanisha
For me to connect this amount of love like that and the social group.

01:04:31:20 - 01:04:33:25
Tiya
Some, but primarily like the.

01:04:33:26 - 01:04:44:01
Tanisha
Marriage. So these expat women who were there, no babies, not married. I'm just yeah, I think I would have enjoyed that.

01:04:44:03 - 01:05:00:07
Tiya
But that's a pretty common one around community that people too seeking out more community. Exactly what any advice for someone who may be sitting in the US and you know everyone because you know it's an election year in your country this year. Are you coming to New York?

01:05:00:13 - 01:05:02:12
Tanisha
I mean. Right. And yours.

01:05:02:14 - 01:05:34:21
Tiya
And mine. You're both in Dubai, so excuse me, but I you will number one. And everyone, you know, so much fear, so much concern, both sides just looking at it. It's not great. And people it's a common conversation that I've had some heard and had with people about, oh, when I leave the US, if someone is sitting here thinking the U.S. and considering, you know, their options like piece of advice, do you have for them?

01:05:34:24 - 01:06:05:06
Tanisha
One you asked if I was going to what I am going to vote I I'm going to mail in my vote. It's mine because I won't be there on those exact Tuesday in November. So what's another one? I absolutely think that people should live outside of the country. Now, I'm not saying permanently, but like even if it's a few months out of the time, think travel opens up your world, your mind, your experience, your perspective, your respect for other humans.

01:06:05:06 - 01:06:37:03
Tanisha
It's just like it just opens you up. Like I said, like I'm learning patients in ways that I would have never learned it in the States because I'm in a whole nother political space. So I think everyone shared the system, especially like you should leave the seat, because sometimes I think we get really caught up in kind of held down by the racism and prejudice and and this idea that America is the center of the universe and like no one else's experiencing the things that we're experiencing.

01:06:37:03 - 01:07:01:21
Tanisha
And like, I think we get really, really down about that and we let it be a hindrance to us. And so I think that travel outside of the country living having a lightness outside of the country, especially if you're a mother with black children, I think especially black boys, what there's just like this lightness that I feel about the fact that my son won't get shot in the street by a cop because of the color of his skin.

01:07:01:21 - 01:07:32:11
Tanisha
Right. This just this is the you have a lighter energy outside of the states for black people. Specifically on the advice, I would say it's like definitely miss in Africa, right. Like, I think there is still very huge like stereotype about Africa and coming to Africa and what it looks like in their experience there and what what. And I would just encourage people to come to the continent and like and whatever, you know, the easiest to point probably contact is right there on the West Coast.

01:07:32:11 - 01:08:00:19
Tanisha
But like, you know, South Africa is a hard trip, but is coming to the continent and seeing people on the continent experience and Africans that aren't immigrants and like that choose to live, you know, on the continent. I would definitely say that that would probably be more easy. And then as you travel, remain open and knowing that your perspective is solely your very one sided unique.

01:08:00:23 - 01:08:12:20
Tanisha
Yeah. And it should not define everyone else's perspective around the world, Right. So leave yourself open to understanding different perspectives. A Well, as you travel, especially within the context.

01:08:12:23 - 01:08:38:21
Tiya
And I love that. I really love that. That is so spot on and that's that, that, that tracks, that's so important. Yes, there is. There's so many more black experiences outside of the US. Like if I hadn't hadn't moved here after having had a whole career, a whole life, in essence, I think the way that I view things would be so different.

01:08:38:21 - 01:09:05:08
Tiya
It would feel so much heavier, so much harder. But because I've seen so much already and experienced myself in a different context, I'm like, Yeah, this is not the end. This will not finish me. I felt like I was. I know that's my answer because I still got when it comes to like, American thing sometimes, But if you don't have that breath, then like that experience, it really does influence the way that you approach things.

01:09:05:15 - 01:09:13:04
Tiya
You kind of have a high school mindset because you don't know that, you know, there's so much more available to you. And I think.

01:09:13:04 - 01:09:35:19
Tanisha
That like, obviously I'm biased because I'm black American, but I think that people view us as hard and loud and rude and and I think it's so much more than that. Right? But I think everyone is so much more than maybe what they've known, what they're known to be. But there are a lot of things that black Americans deal with.

01:09:35:19 - 01:09:55:17
Tanisha
Like I told you, this heaviness of being black in America is very hard. It's a burden to carry. You know what I mean and it is manifesting itself in many ways. And one of those ways is being super hard, like just having this hard, tough exterior that no one can penetrate me because. They literally have to walk the earth, You know, they're there.

01:09:55:17 - 01:10:22:03
Tanisha
Earth, you know, in fear of dying because of the color of their skin, which is very heavy burden to bear. And so I think that, like, everyone deserves a little grace. And again, like I said, and I will continue to preach it from the soapbox, the more we learn about other each other and the more that we see how similar we are and our experiences, the stronger we will be, the faster we will progress, and the more we will be empowered.

01:10:22:05 - 01:10:30:19
Tiya
For sure. I agree with that last question as a whole. You come here.

01:10:30:22 - 01:10:52:04
Tanisha
Yes. Yes. I have a love of South Africa that is very strong. And I think that being from New York, I know people have moved to New York. I maybe lived there for ten, 20 years and it's become their home. And I've never had that experience because I am New York. Many people aspire to live in New York, but I'm from New York.

01:10:52:04 - 01:11:31:27
Tanisha
So like, that's always home in here has always been that. So to come to another country and feel that way after a few years, like I'm experiencing the way people may experience, like in New York and I do, I love it. I think there's I think the people of are Jill's great the people that I mean I mean again, I love my kid, you know, but just people that I meet are like I just think there's so much beauty and, you know, everything, turmoil, everything I love the I love the lows and the highs of of a place.

01:11:31:27 - 01:11:58:01
Tanisha
Right. And I just think that like for that just highs it's it has it it's like it really does and to your point people talk about like corruption and different things like it. So sometimes when I'm here I'm like, I don't know what to do about that because I'm literally outside of all of that. But like, I hope that the things that plague local or native people do get resolved.

01:11:58:02 - 01:12:25:14
Tanisha
I know that in the world we've seen that they don't always get fully resolved. But yeah, I really do want South African and I know so many of those South African that's I think it's like I don't have to tell them about South Africa and I love that too. And so yeah. How long has definitely it's a long way to say but like I'm trying to put into words how I'm feeling and I can and that's why I like I keep rambling because it's like I can't even find the words to, to say how I'm feeling.

01:12:25:16 - 01:12:28:14
Tanisha
But home is definitely that.

01:12:28:17 - 01:12:51:18
Tiya
I love. Thank you so much, Tanisha. I really appreciate you talking to me from my home as I speak to you in your home. This is definitely something that I'm so glad to like close out this first season with because now there are very few people that I can have this type of conversation with who get both sides.

01:12:51:20 - 01:13:08:10
Tiya
So and I feel maybe the same for you that there are people who get both sides. So really it's really privileged to be able to have this discussion and we definitely need to support in person. That's why I love it.

01:13:08:12 - 01:13:08:29
Tanisha
You're all my.

01:13:08:29 - 01:13:28:05
Tiya
Man and we're over here. Oh, your taste of my food. Thank you so much. And there's still so many topics I didn't even touch on, especially the fact that South Africa and the religious and civic life.

01:13:28:07 - 01:13:33:02
Tanisha
I will die on this hill. I will not let you have it. I will get by on that I've.

01:13:33:06 - 01:13:37:06
Tiya
Got a million shots and I'm struggling. I don't like I'm right.

01:13:37:06 - 01:13:49:10
Tanisha
Well, I'm going to help you because I will die on this. So I would say the first one you have to have Amazon. So another man, you have faith in me. The fact that I can get next day delivery I don't want to take.

01:13:49:12 - 01:14:02:20
Tiya
Of their own tailor. Like for me, that is thing we have to solve. Okay that is a very big difference maker buy a little Zara Blazer is not going to cut it.

01:14:02:22 - 01:14:06:17
Tanisha
Okay you got that. You got that.

01:14:06:20 - 01:14:10:17
Tiya
We got it. Period. You think we've got it? It's.

01:14:10:21 - 01:14:12:27
Tanisha
No, no, no.

01:14:13:00 - 01:14:31:10
Tiya
You said thank you so, so, so much fun and I will let you go. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to today's episode. If You enjoyed the show and you want to stay connected. Make sure that you are subscribed and following us on your favorite podcasting platform, which does include YouTube. Your support means the world to me and.

01:14:31:10 - 01:14:53:22
Tiya
It helps me to keep bringing you this type of content. Also, don't forget to rate the podcast. Give us a good rating and to leave a review. Leave a comment because your feedback also helps to shape the show and let me know what type of stuff you guys want to keep hearing and seeing. Lastly, if you have any questions, feedback, suggestions, DME on that Instagram account, which is home to here, we can't wait to hear from you.

01:14:53:22 - 01:14:54:09
Tiya
Bye guys.