Transracial Adoption: Joys, Risks, And Real Tools For Parents

Adoption can hold joy and ache in the same breath. We open with reunion—meeting a sister after years—and the quiet courage of calling a birth parent “mom,” even while honoring the mother who raised us. From there, we move through grief, village support, and a practical update on a genealogy case that’s finally in motion. The heart of our conversation explores transracial adoption: why the numbers are growing, how economics and systems shape who adopts, and what it really takes to raise a child whose race and culture differ from your own.

We get specific. Representation starts with small choices—books and dolls that look like your child—and grows into bigger commitments: finding mentors and barbers, choosing teachers and communities that reflect them, and learning the language of care. For Black girls, hair is identity and dignity; we unpack the Crown Act’s context and why hair literacy is parenting, not a nice-to-have. We also share ten insights gathered from adult transracial adoptees: love deeply, talk about race and adoption early and often, build mixed-race friendships, and never pretend differences don’t exist. A diverse neighborhood helps, but it won’t do the work for you.

Ethical questions surface—cultural loss, power imbalances, and the dangers of a rescue mindset—and we answer with intentional parenting: relationship over rescue, respect over control, listening over certainty. Along the way, we highlight Sandra Bullock’s public blueprint for awareness-driven love: celebrate heritage, prepare kids for bias, and keep learning. If family is commitment plus culture, the job is to widen the table so children can hold all their parts with pride.

If this conversation moved you, follow So I’m Adopted on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, share this episode with a friend, and leave a review so more families can find us. What’s one small act that made you feel seen? Tell us.

Music by Curtis Rodgers IG @itsjustcurtis
Produce and Edited by  Lisa Sapp 
Executive Producer Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Johnnie Underwood

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to the So I'm Adopted Podcast, where we talk everything adopted. This journey is not one we take alone. Together we grapple with raw emotions that surface from adoption stories. We want you to be comfortable enough to hear. Sit back and go with us on this journey as we die into adoption. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. What's happening, Podcast Family?

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Hello, hello, hello. How are you? What's going on, Lisa? Ooh, it's a lot going on. Almost a lot. It's a lot going on. It is a how you been feeling?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Overwhelming. Overwhelmed. Good, good, but overwhelmed. Just a lot of lot of things going on and a lot of progress with my adoption journey and my story and in this season. And just thankful for where we are right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Okay.

Calling Birth Mother “Mom”

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Thankful for where we are right now. We have continued progress with you know biological family and mom and continued affirmations, and she's you know becoming more visible and vocal.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

So just walking with her in this season and getting to meet family, had opportunity to meet my sister, and it was mind-blowing just to sit across from my sister.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

You know, that part. You know, my brothers, we've met, and that was mind-blowing when it happened. And you know, three years later to sit across from her was just amazing for that opportunity. So I'm thankful for it. And I'm looking forward to that growing and progressing.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Good. I'm glad that you were able to finally meet your sister. Yeah. So that's good. But I have a question. Okay. And you probably don't know this question that I'm gonna ask. Oh boy. But you know, because I I I was had the opportunity to at least see some of this family bonding this past weekend.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

And one of the things I've noticed when speaking of your mother as you uh recount situations and events. Right. You called her mom. I always called her mom. Did you? I've always called her mom. That's the first time I've actually recognized it. I guess, because I I don't know, for some reason I always hear you say her name.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I have in her presence, that was a discussion that we had earlier on. And one, you know, you're just always taught to respect elders. But on top of that, at the end of the day, she's she's my mother. You know, that part you don't take away, and it doesn't, two things can be true at one time. That's what I learned. So it's it's never been a I'm sitting here now saying it hasn't been a battle for me to say that. I was more concerned about how she would receive it in the beginning. Um it wasn't because she's always had that title, that position for me. It doesn't disregard the other side. Like I said, two things can be true at the same time. And then as we continued and we learned, you know, first mom, like that's how it is defined appropriately in the you know, in the uh adoption world. The adoption world. So yeah, that's always been just the norm that I've called her mom.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Because for me, right off the bat, it seemed like I started calling my mother mom. Okay. And and the only reason why was because I was around my siblings. And as they were referring to her, obviously they were saying mommy or mom. And it was it was just natural for me to fall into that progression along with them. So I was just curious because I just noticed it.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

So I will tell you, then I'm reflecting back, the moments where it's odd. I shouldn't even say odd, it's just not familiar, is when I'm with like my brothers, and I'll make reference, and I'll have I'm consciously, I won't call a name. And I'm like, if I say Ma, how will they feel? What will they be offended? You know, just that again, trying to think about everybody mentality. And, you know, they're they've accepted me and embraced me, so it's not like it's taboo anymore. It is, yeah, we got the same, even you know, as we went around and they would introduce just my brother, and you know, so that part of it was just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

I it was amazing.

Village Support And Grief

SPEAKER_00 5:09

I'm thankful for that. You came and my mom actually she sent a message to you and Titus and Dion just saying thank you all uh for being there. My cousin Dion, we were standing in the line and she saw him and she got out the line and called him by name, and he said it just meant the world to him. You know, and then for her to see an extension of my village, that she's a part of the village and to be there to support it just was priceless.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah, we we said we have to come.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, and it meant the world to me. It meant the world to me.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

And we saw her before we saw you, and she just embraced us. She said, Oh, it's so good to see family. I was like, wow, you know. That's right. So I we're really glad that we we were able to make it so I'm thankful.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

I am so thankful that you all did. It it really helped in the moment where you don't know how it helps. As we were sitting in there and Titus sent me a text, and it was a text that only could happen if you were there. Right. And it just took me to a whole different place, and I was just like, wow, God, you are good. That's the only way that I can put it. So yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

It's amazing. And I'm sure our fans out here, our audience is probably trying to.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

What happened?

SPEAKER_01 6:28

What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

So maybe in a later episode we'll talk about that. Who knows? Um it's up to you. Yeah, but it's up to you.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

But good. I'm glad that everything is progressing on my home front. You know, when we had a couple episodes ago, Sana when she talked about the uh genealogy.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

So I have since been in contact with them. Okay, all right, good stuff. And so he has started my case. So we'll see. Okay. We'll see. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. And he said, Well, how do you want me to communicate to you? And I said, only when you have something. Yeah. But now I'm realizing, yeah, that's not that's that's not a good answer.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

You want to know the blueprint.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

I need to know a little bit more what's going on that you know, things are going, so I'm gonna reach back out to him and say, uh, maybe at least every two weeks, just tell me something. Just give me an update.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Make me excited by the headline. Yeah, so give me my email.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

So yeah, I have a a renewed excitement about it, and uh, we'll see where it goes. Good. You know, nothing's nothing's promised, nothing's guaranteed.

Genealogy Case And Check-Ins

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Right, right. So we'll see. So the other side of the coin, uh I wanna make mention that today is a little challenging for me. The day is the anniversary from when my my mom passed away back in 2013. And it still is it's challenging. Uh you know, I woke up today and I had moments of celebrations. A good friend of mine rang the bell. He's cancer free, finished his treatments, went and worked out, took care of some other things, and you know, I just still had like some bricks I was carrying in my backpack. And I finally was able to just come to terms and let it go and you know have my emotional moments. So but definitely want to give, you know, due respect for what role she has played and who she is. Like I said, two things can be true. I was blessed to have mothers. Yes. Mothers, I will say that because I had my first mom who gave birth to me, then my second mom who nurtured me, and then the third mom, uh my wife's mom, who accepted me and and helped nurture me as well. So, you know, that part you come to learn as you sober up that just because you start off one way doesn't mean it's gonna end one way. End of the again, because we all believers, God gives you what you need when you need it.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

And yes, and I can attest to everything you just said because adoptees have a an what's the word I want to use? Unique way, a unique way, well, not necessarily a unique way, favor, especially when you find your birth mother, you you get two moms.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

In that regard, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Right? And plus, just like you, I have my third mother, that's right, who because both my adoptive mother and my birth mother are both deceased now, I still have my still have the my mother in love, yeah, still a part of my life. She's a joy too. So everybody don't get two moms, everybody don't get three moms.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

So everybody don't get one mom that they can be in the space with. You know, that's the other piece when you talk about the favor. And and I'll I'll be transparent with this. For me, it was this excitement, and I jumped the gun on a lot of things, just trying to be that young kid of I'm just found this new and I need to find out, I need to find out. Now, having walked through it, I wish I was more sober in certain aspects of it. I still was very cautious, but if I had been more sober, I think it would have been a lot a little bit more enriching for me. Whereas now I'm extremely sober in it and I'm walking in it and making sure that I process and how it impacts others.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

I mean, I hear you, but again, after so many years, for you, you've known. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

So when it becomes a reality, you have that excitement and you have that excitement. Correct. And I'm not, I'm not, I don't want again, so let me correct. I don't want to diminish that. Okay. But I think there's also a level of be present in that moment and process what's going on. Because you what you don't want to do is continuously, and notice I said continuously, run on emotions.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

You know, you want to be able to, all right, wait a minute, let me process what's going on. Is this a good thing, right? This second, because it may be, no, we need to wait a moment.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yes, and and I absolutely agree with that. Right. Because there are times when, you know, quote unquote, the honeymoon stage is over.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

And then reality sets in.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

And everybody goes back to who they really are. Because you know, sometimes they try to put the mask on, keep the secrets, hide the secrets, so you know, because they want to present themselves as a lack of a better word, a perfect family. Right. And then all of a sudden you start seeing different things on both sides, right? So I definitely understand that because then there's a moment like, okay, I mean, family's cool, I know who they are, and some people are like, uh, and that's about as far as I'll go.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

You know, and on the other hand, you have that relationship with them and you continue to grow with it, along with the the good, bad, and the ugly, and you still progress through. But some of them like, I see you all the way over there, and you stay over there, and I'll stay here.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

And keep it moving. I know where you are, I've seen you. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

That's an episode in itself, right now.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

By itself. If I have a question, I'll reach out.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

So again, we encourage you to hit the like, hit the share button, let others know about our podcast. So I'm adopted. Um, just an opportunity to have some discussions about non-traditional relationships, uh, ultimately. So, just like we do with all of our sessions, Lisa, we're gonna jump right into our famous adoptee. Who you got today?

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Okay. So, today I have Sandra Bullock. Okay, okay, all right. Okay, and Sandra Bullock, as we all know, was an Academy Award-winning actress and is the mother of two, I didn't realize that. I didn't either two African American children. Oh, wow. Lewis, who she adopted in 2010 from New Orleans, and Layla adopted in 2015 from a foster care system in Louisiana. I knew about Lewis, but I never knew that she adopted another child.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Interesting. When when did Katrina hit when was that? Do you remember off topic?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

2015.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Okay. All right, so that wasn't Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Yeah. So yeah. Right after that, right?

unknown 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Because she had got her in 2015. So 2015, 2016, I think.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, so that would be, you know, it was so much that went on as a result of that.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

And I'm sure that there were displaced families, and you know, you don't even think about the the children that were infants at that time and what they had to do because the adults who had all abilities at that time were still were trying to survive.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

We're trying to survive, and there was a lot of people we lost during that time. So I'm sure that the foster care system got slammed big time. And I think Sandra is from Louisiana, I think she is. Okay. I think she's I think she's from that area. That would make sense. That would make sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

That would definitely make sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

So that is that's your person. My person.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

So the person that I have is uh Diane Keaton.

unknown 14:53

Really?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Diane Keaton, and she adopted two children. Her daughter, Dexter Keaton, and she was adopted in 1996. And then her son, Duke Keaton, who was adopted in 2001. Both are in their 50s. She was adopted, both of them in her 50s, as a single mother. And it's interesting because both of the children have mostly stayed out of the limelight. They stayed out of the public figures. They're married and they have careers that they're doing. But again, I never knew that she had adopted.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

I didn't either.

Multiple Mothers And Favor

SPEAKER_00 15:27

And she she described motherhood as a profound and positive experience. Adoption was the smartest thing that she did. That's what she said.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

That's interesting. Sandra had had some type of a sentiment exactly in that same way. She said she loved and committed to find a family. It doesn't define a family based on their, you know, their ethnicity. Um so she was definitely in that same vein as Thanky. I love Thank you. I love all her movies.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah, that's it. That's interesting. We both picked women in the entertainment field that had adopted, and they both adopted two.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Two. I said that very much so it is. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

So we're gonna go ahead and jump into today. Today is a little different because we don't have a guest per se, uh, but we have a topic. And with Lisa's person, it kind of opened the door a little bit to that discussion, and it's one that is very relevant. It is heartwarming and complex, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Um, we're gonna talk about transracial adoption. Transracial adoptions. And what that is, that's when parents adopt a child of a different race or ethnic background. You know, it's about love, it's about family, it's about the courage to cross the cultural lines. And, you know, right now it is extremely tough when we talk about different cultures and how do I put it? Just the difference of thought. I'm gonna leave it there. You know, because the reality is now we are aware of what people are talking about at their dinner tables. Yes, and the conversations are truly different. They are different across the bubble. Across the bubble. But at the core, it's about love, it's about family, and it's about the courage, like I said, to cross that cultural line. But it also raises some questions. You know, it raises some questions because you get the the look. Like, like I told you, I used to be with my uncle, and he's dark-skinned, Dion's dad. Okay, and people used to, my mom, this is what my mom would say. She would say that she knew people would look at that dark-skinned guy, and then this light lady who, well, she wasn't even really light, so my Aunt Carolyn. Okay, and then look at me, because they would carry me on something, and I had red hair, and they were like, Who that I can't say what she said, but who that man trying to fool with that light baby? You know, so it's always that public perception of trying to figure out how dare you.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Right, right. You know, yeah, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Come on, what are you trying to do? So, you know, we're gonna kind of peel back some layers on that and talk about some things.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yes, let's talk about, but let's start off with some facts. Okay, let's go. Right? Let's start off. Absolutely. So the government data shows about 40% of adoptive families in the United States are transracial, meaning that the parent obviously has adopted outside of their race.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

In fact, white parents make up roughly 90% of those families.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Well, think about it though. From you know, I don't think we all have to wonder why because there's so many barriers in the financial piece. Yeah, economically. Economically, it they're barriers where people of color don't always have the ability to adopt. That's true. When they start unpacking past histories, whether that's your financial statements, whether that's work history, whether that is just family dynamics, whether that is your criminal record, whether it be misdemeanors or things of that nature.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

And unfortunately, that's how society is. So if you have the means, you're more likely to be able to adopt whomever. Right. Right?

Famous Adoptees: Bullock And Keaton

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Versus the opposite. And I don't want it to the perception to be like those things don't mean anything because they do. Absolutely. They do have a place. I think there are some situations where someone may not have all the monies in the world, but their heart is good as gold. They know how they know how to make two ends meet. They know how to make sure that you know what, I'm gonna care for you, I'm gonna take you in, I'm gonna love you beyond anything that you've ever experienced. Exactly. And I wish that we stayed in a society, in a world where we could afford that person the opportunity to offer that love to somebody on a consistent basis. But again, I understand that you don't want somebody who may be struggling in in this world to now bring somebody else on, and then that new individual potentially can be looked at and resented because it's like, look, we were just struggling here, and now we bring you in.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

And now we're struggling now. Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Like we're talking about when that once that honeymoon period wears all right, and life gets the life in, how then do you make that transition?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

And then how are you really being able to support support? You may love them, but you don't have the support to allow them to grow into the best person they can be. Absolutely. And one of the other things, between 2017 and 2019, roughly one in three black children are adopted from foster care who joined into a biracial race. Well, not biracial, but a different race. Okay, and the overall number of transracial adoptions has grown by more than 50 percent since the mid-2000s. That means we have more there's more black children out there who is in the system than any other race for it to be that high a percentage, 50 percent are there available for black or white or a different race to adopt them.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Do you think that that is do you think that number is skewed based on the ability now to collect data? Or and then I say that because like with my file, it was uncommon because I had so much information, right? Mm-hmm. So do you think that over time some information just was put to the side? So we didn't really have the numbers to support it? Or and I mean it and it may have been consistent, just bringing it up because as when you know about it, you do better.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

We do better. And that's true. And then sometimes, you know, they like to keep the truth.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Pad the numbers.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Call it what it is. Call it what it is.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

They only report what they want to report.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Correct. They feed us what they want to feed us so that it can sway the public perception and support larger agendas, whatever that may be.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Whatever that may be.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

You know, we're not here to say what it is one way or the other. We're just here to say some of the milk might not be white, like my mom used to say. Gotta love it.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Gotta love it. So that is where we stand as far as you know percentages, and it's an eye-opener.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Very much so. You know, so with looking at the percentages, you know, then the question would be, then why? Why do we have this difference in adoption, you know, in the different races? That's that's the major question. And then so I would say for for many, at the end of the day, at the foundation, it stems from a place of giving a child love from a permanent home. I think that our old our human, our humanistic side kicks in.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

And it really is a place of I want to help, I want to do better. That's not to say that on the journey, people don't get frustrated and things happen.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

But I think that when it comes to adoption, because of all the things that you have to go through, that there is a desire. And unfortunately, some people don't continue the journey because it is so much stress. It's like, you know what? I'm I'm good, I'll volunteer, I'll just take care of my nieces and nephews, type of scenarios.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

But that that that is true because a lot of people are out here from different races. They want to give the love, like you said. They want to let the kids know that they're accepted, and they want to let them also know that they're good enough.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

That's another piece. That is another piece.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

That's that's the main part of just a parent.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

Yeah.

Defining Transracial Adoption

SPEAKER_01 24:28

As a parent, those are the things we want. We want our kids to be productive citizens when they get older. Contributors to society. But they have to feel that love, they have to feel that support in order for them to get to that possibility.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

That's very important. That's very important. And in addition to that, the opportunity to have a level of harmony of different cultures, the the melting pot, so to speak, and to be able to bring someone and expose them to what you do, but also learn from them. And I think that's something that we'll touch on a little later because I believe it's a two-way street. I believe it can be a very slippery slope when it's just that one way, and you say, This is what I'm going to indoctrine you to. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yes. So I think again, this is where they have to be very sober-minded and understand that although you're bringing in this different culture, and your culture is in your home. I'm by no means am I saying that it's one should override the other. But I think that there is a responsibility to allow that individual exposure to their culture.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

You know, you don't completely write it off. So you can't. You shouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

You shouldn't. People try. Because you're trying to prepare this child. Again, as parents, we want to build our children up to go out into this world because once they get from out of our bubble, they have to live in the real world. And we know what that real world is, especially today.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

So if you keep them in the bubble, in this, I'm not saying, you know, this fake world and not prepare them for who they are as an individual because you may see them as there's no, you know, it's colorous to you. They're just your child. But once they go out of your radius of protection, right, they're not your child, they're whatever the world sees them.

Why The Numbers Are Growing

SPEAKER_00 26:43

So let me give you the other side of that. I agree with everything you're saying. And like I said earlier, two things can be true at the same time. There's there's also, I think, an impact if i.e. the person who has brought in the adoptee feels threatened by the other culture. You know what I'm saying? So there's a level of, and again, these are the difficult conversations that you have to be prepared with because you don't want that other culture to come in and now demonize you, erase what good effort you've tried to do. True. You know what I'm saying? So it's again when we start unpacking and peeling back these layers, there's so many unspokens that are taboo. But the reality is they need to be discussed.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

They need to be discussed. And if someone decides that's the way they want to go, researching what you're getting yourself into is very important.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

You know what I'm saying? Because if if you're gonna if you feel threatened by the culture of that child, like you were saying, then you weren't prepared. You didn't prepare yourself for what could happen. But it or your mindset it was not in the right vein.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

True, both of those. But it also may be a scenario that you just don't know what you don't know. Because you may become so attached, and now you're taking a different ownership subconsciously. You see what I'm saying? So from that standpoint, it's like, all right, I've done everything I've loved, and for you to come in now and try and erase what we do in this house, I'm gonna take it personally, you know? True. You know, so I think all three variables can be true scenarios.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

You know what? It reminds me of a show. I don't know if you ever watched This Is Us.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, I did. I did.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

So do you remember the pool scene? Oh, yes, and you see how protective the mom was, and then she had to sit back for a minute after the black woman read her, right?

SPEAKER_04 29:01

She had to accept it.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

So she had to accept it, so she had to step back and say, okay, is it me trying to defend who I am to him or do I need to put him first? Right? So then she became humbled herself, walked over to the woman and said, you know, is there any way that, you know, our kids can be play dates, and then and then she gave her a few tips. Hey, you know, he may need to go to this type of barber for his haircut and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

But but kudos to the the woman of color because she could have easily been like, whatever. Oh, yeah, no. You know, but again, I think that's where the humanistic part comes in, where at the end of the day we wanna we want to do right. Yes. I just think that there are scenarios that put people in situations where they don't have the ability to make the better choice based on influence, based on circumstance, you know, whatever that may be.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

You know, because there are a lot of joys. I don't want people, our listeners to think that, you know, we're we're just painting the bad part that are significant joys from this. You know, parents describe, you know, the love as immediate and unconditional when they adopt, when they see that child for the first time. Again, I'm not a mother, never had that experience, but it's said that when a mom gives birth to a child and they latch on for the first time, it is like an immediate, euphoric type of scenario situation. It it is. It's I take your word for it. I'm not arguing at all.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Trust me. Yeah, it's a different thing. A part of you that you didn't know you had in you. Right. It's a recycling of you become that nurturer, that protector to that child, whether you gave birth to that child or not.

Love, Limits, And Culture In The Home

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Right, and that's what I was gonna say. The flip side for the adopted person who now embracing that child for the first time, you're building that rapport. Yes. And rapport can be built in many different ways. It doesn't have to be through the nursing piece. It can just happen gradually over time. Speaking into them, they get recognizing your voice, being able to hold them, coddling them, caressing them, all these different things. So those are some of the joys. You know, children often thrive when given stability. We we know that some consistency, being there, education and care, those three things, data shows us that when you have those three things in place, it helps. When you start looking at, you know, those who are successful, those who have the ability to persevere. Normally, those are the consistent things that are there. Consistent family support and love, education, and the care. You know, and you look back and notice it doesn't say finances there, right? It doesn't because it doesn't. There was a time when our folks ain't had no money, but they had stability based on the routines that they established. They had education based on word of mouth being passed down.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

You know what I'm saying? Yes. So you think about the schoolhouses were a place of stories. When you when you go back to African proverbs, it's stories being passed down to help shape your thinking so that you don't fall into the same mistakes that others have made. You know, so I I think that that's one area that I think our society has missed the mark because our storytelling of who we are and where we've come from isn't what it used to be. No, it's not. And I don't know if you blame social media for that. I don't know if you blame the babies having babies generation because you lost a about 10, 15 years of wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

True. I think it's a little bit of all.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

A combination. You know, you know, you don't have the the gray-headed grandparent anymore. You got G Mom. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Who's not that far removed from your age. Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

So it's, and it's and again, we're not knocking it, but I think there is a level of wisdom that, like my grandma, since I known her, she was older.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Walking around with her apron, cooking biscuits. You know what I'm saying? That was like her thing. So she always had the gray hair. Right. So that was the perception that I had. This generation now, the age barriers aren't there. They aren't there. And I I remember being in college, and you know, it was some, I had some friends that had kids in college. I mean, had kids when they got to college. And I just didn't have that concept. And I was like, I guess, you know, I'm behind the aid ball, then now that my kids are in college and I'm a couple of years removed from it, it's like, wow. Can you imagine? No, yeah, I can't. Yeah, I can't. I wasn't, I wasn't even able to take care of me at the time. Right, let alone a child. I was trying to just coexist, you know, but when people, when people see love, and this is what I really believe this, when people see love across the racial lines, it pushes back against prejudice. Now, yes, and then let me really expound on that. Okay, because remember earlier we talked about how when people see you, they want to try and figure out how the puzzle was put together. And it takes a strong-minded individual to be an adopted parent. Yes. Because you're gonna be faced with so many different scenarios and things. Okay. I remember a scenario where comments were made, not about my mom, but I was in the presence of somebody, and they were talking about how they didn't agree with an individual, and the comment that came after really, as they say, grinded my gears. Because the comment was they were fussing about their interaction, whatever that may have been, and then they said, and she thinks she's a mom, she didn't even give birth to that child. She adopted the child. And I got I was fish breeze, I was pissed off. But in the moment, I didn't know how to articulate it in a manner that was appropriate. Right. And the individual I was with, they saw my face, the other person, and they kind of tried to shift the relationship, and I walked away, and they came and they were like, Are you okay? And I was like, No. I said, I don't ever want to see that person again.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Because it was an attack on me and mine.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Exactly. Now, did they know?

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Nope. So, again, this is why you gotta be careful. You gotta be careful what you say around you because you never know. Never know. And the the here's where grace, mercy, and forgiveness all work together. Because I never said anything to them. And I've forgiven them. And I've been in that individual's presence since, and they would they would not know. No, they wouldn't know that I was offended because at the time, looking back, it wasn't an attack on me. It was from her place of emotional regulation and her what she was going through. And that was an opportunity where she could attack this individual in that moment. And nothing more, nothing less from my standpoint. It may have been more, but for what I needed to hear it, the reason I needed to hear it was because it stirred up an emotion in me of protection.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Absolutely. Wow. Yeah, those are the challenges.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah, I guess I just went right to the challenges of it.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Those are those are the challenges. Because at some point, you know, when the kid comes from out the bubble or they get to a to a stage in their life where they start getting curious, just like for you, you're like, well, where did I fit in? Where do I fit in? Right. You know, because they've been in this bubble. If if the adoptive parents didn't really put them in the position to understand their culture, to be integrated into their culture, at some point or another, I mean, I'm sure they recognize that they're different, but at some point or another, they're gonna say, you know, where do I fit in?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Well, you here's the thing. When you look at kids and them playing at such a young age, they don't recognize the the racial construct that we've created.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

But you know what? You know who recognizes it first for them? You know who tells them first?

unknown 38:03

Who?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

The kids that they're playing with.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Maybe. Even the ones that they're playing with, I think, don't recognize it unless they're hearing it from somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

I was gonna say they're hearing it from their family. Right.

Belonging, Bullying, And Identity

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Somebody sees it one day, like, well, who's that, such and such? And now the kid is like, well, yeah, who is that? Well, no, that's Johnny. Like, that's what they recognize them as until we as adults, or I'm not even gonna say adults, to damaged individuals. I'll use the word damaged, then spew their it's not hate, it is divisiveness, I guess. I would say that separate, you know, whatever divisiveness on others, and then it starts that rabbit hole of questioning and well, why are they different?

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Right, because they then they realize that they don't fit here and they don't fit there. You know, they're in between different cultures trying to really figure out where they belong, and they don't feel they belong anywhere, and then they become isolated. Sometimes they're they're bullied, sometimes because they look different. Right. And if like for me growing up, the only people they saw was my mother and my brother. Both of them were light-skinned, then and then my father is dark skinned. Okay, and I'm dark skinned.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Right, I knew that part, but I didn't know both of them were light-skinned.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

They're both, you know, both light-skinned. So, and he's three years older than me. So when we entered into, and the first time this became something was when we went to high school. So we weren't in elementary school together at the time. We wasn't in middle school at the same time, but when we got to high school, he was a senior and I was a freshman. So therefore, that's when someone said, Oh, so are you a that's the first time that's ever even prompts come up, right? Because he's and they only saw my mother, they never saw my father. So, but I would always defend it with, oh, I look like my dad. Which is a very common acceptable answer. But the first thing they said was, that's your brother, because our our last name is Holtwinger, so it's very unique, right? So they're like, Y'all look nothing alike, but that just went over my head. But I went home and said, Hey, you know, they asked me, was I adopted? And I told them no. I said, I look like my dad. But that's another time. Little did you know. Little did I know that they were right.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Do you know that my youngest daughter has been questioned whether she was adopted or not?

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Really?

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Because she's tall.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

I don't know if it's because she's tall. I I literally think it came from a place of what can I do to hurt you? Because if you look at her, to me, she looks like my wife, and Jayla looks like me, and I think the two of them favor, like it's it's not a question.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

I think that there are similarities in it. Titus showed me a picture of my biological mother. Yes. And it she said, look at her, look at how she's standing. And I looked and he was like, You see Jordan? And I was like, Whoa, that was scary.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Yeah, because I was like, Titus, look at this picture. That's how Jordan stands.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

I'm gonna have to say it to a short.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Exactly how Jordan stands.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

That's crazy. That was mind-blowing to me. So I I think that ultimately it comes from a place of wanting to hurt, wanting to get the upper hand. And, you know, I think children can be mean, as resilient as they have the potential to be.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

You know, they can be mean, sometimes not intentional. They're just repeating what was done to them, true, what they've seen.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

But the person who is the recipient of that is challenging, especially if they haven't been built up and haven't been had the opportunity to be in a culture to know who you are. Absolutely. You know, so if you're coming into and high school is is a prime example. It's already clicks.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Yeah, it's tough as hell.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

You don't even have to be adopted, and you're already outcast. Outcast, right? On top of that, then you're adopted, and then on top of that, then your your parents don't look anything like you. That's just a recipe for you know, someone really maybe possibly not living up to their full potential. But here's other pieces because of those challenges, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:55

But when you don't know, you just don't know, right? So, like with with my wife Janice, you know, she grew up, mom Italian, dad, black. And she said that she wasn't accepted by either. I'm not I'm not black enough, or you're too black. And it's just for me hearing that, I was like, huh? Because I that wasn't my norm, that wasn't what I was exposed to. So you as you learn what other people's struggles are with this, you know, transracial just dynamic. And when then when you put it in the pot of adoption, adoption, it just boils over if it is not tended to it.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

No, because you you have to you you have to be able to find your identity and to belong. Everybody wants to belong. Everybody wants to be a part of something. Need to be needed, need to be needed, need to be wanted. And if you can't, you're not here, you can't go, and you can't go there. Just like with Janice. She wasn't, she wasn't black enough and she wasn't white enough. So where do you go? So where do you go? Right. Right. You got that table in the back of the cafeteria where all the outcast people go. That's right. Right? That's just so it's important to have a representation in your child's life. If the child if the child is, you know, rarely sees people that look like them in school and in church in their community, they feel invisible. Just like on TV. When we don't see somebody that looks like us, how do we know we can do the same thing?

Representation, Dolls, And Media

SPEAKER_00 44:39

So two things. First, when I'll give an example, we talk about like seeing things. So growing up, and this is this is all we had available, so don't judge me. I'm not gonna judge. There's no judge down. We used to watch Dukes that hazard. Right with the general lady.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

Daisy Dukes.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Correct. But do you remember that there was a black character on the show? You don't even remember.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

I think it was one.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

It was one. Do you remember what he was? What he did?

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Was he a mechanic?

SPEAKER_00 45:20

No, that was Cooter.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Was he a sheriff?

SPEAKER_00 45:24

He was a sheriff from another town. And we used to get excited when he would come on because he looked like us.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

And it was, I couldn't figure out how they were painting him. They painted him as no nonsense, but if you notice, he ain't coming to their town. You're right. You know what I'm saying? Right. So it was like you over there, but you know your place. But it was that moment of every episode when he came on, there was a level of connection that went there. So the other piece I will say that one of the things that statistics say is for parents that have transracial adopted children, get toys, and if you have girls, especially dolls that look like that. Because what it does now, it normalizes what they look like. And they're able to look at something for as a reflection. Yes. That means I'm here. And what it communicates is that as the adopted parent, you care enough about who they are. Yes. To expose them to their culture and what they what they look like. That's just at the lowest level, you know, that's uh that's low-hanging fruit.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

That's low-hanging fruit.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

You can it takes nothing to go buy a doll. And now with the digital age, you can get the doll to look just like them.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

And then it that allows them to kind of understand racism and microaggressions. Yep. You know, because if they can see something that looks like them. That's right. Early, later on, it won't be as challenging. Correct. And that's why culture competence is important as well. Because we as colored people. Me, I'm just talking about me. I'm not colored too. Well, I'm this because you don't have no hair.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

Why do you always go you always go back to that?

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Because hair is important. Hey, we had the crown hair crown act. Well, what the crown hair act.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

I got you. I got you.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

So for us to be able to wear our hair naturally is important. And if if you are from a different race and don't really understand what a black woman goes through with her hair, that can be a detriment to that young lady.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

I have no arguments. I want to publicly apologize for interrupting the story. I don't want y'all to cancel me. I do recognize there is a huge following and support of the black woman's hair struggles. I support it wholeheartedly. Janice, Jordan, Jayla, whatever you all need, I will write a check to get you taken care of.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Because that is our crown. That is our beauty. And we should be able to wear it, however, in the natural state or in whatever we want to wear it without it being judged.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Like even if it's not done, like just like so I work with me. I'm on a history.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

I'm not about you, I'm talking about, let's just talk about in corporate America. Because that's why the Crown Act came about.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

Okay, all right, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

All right. Maybe 10, 10, I guess, 10, 15 years ago, I wouldn't wear my, I would have never worn my hair naturally.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

But as time has gone on, and it's more accepting, but it wasn't accepting at one point. And then and even going further, we were straightening our hair because only thing we only saw was straight hair. So we had those relaxers, right? We sitting and getting our hair, then our scalp burning, and no, I'm okay. It doesn't hurt. It's not burning. Because we want to get it bone straight. I got you.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

And I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

So you have to, I and I say all that to say, you know, one of the things that a parent who has a different ethnicity in her household is that they recognize that and then go wherever they need to go for them to get the proper care.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Absolutely. Hands down. I agree. Because even with in supporting the Crown Act, I think that there's still a level of making sure that it is kept. That's the best word I'm gonna use for it.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

Yes.

Hair, The Crown Act, And Care

SPEAKER_00 50:13

I think it's a difference between a natural, and again, I don't have hair, so I shouldn't even be talking. I acknowledge that. Okay, that's my second strike. So I'm gonna stay out of, I'm gonna butt out. You set me up too. You knew she was gonna do a ball joke. Yeah, you did. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Oh my goodness. Okay, I'm just saying, you know, it would be good if they are very come with it with humility and say, you know what? I don't know what to do with this.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

And I would so I agree with you. And I think that if we can get somebody, if you know somebody that is part of the team, when somebody starts the process to adopt of that education piece of talking about the cultural competence, is that part of the discussion? Do they shy away from those discussions? Because it may be a scenario that where they come from, their culture may be a different religious background. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? It may be totally different. So I'm not saying that you have to convert and you have to say, but are you willing to expose so that the child can make the choice? Right now, we do know that sometimes there is a cultural trickle down where no, this is what it's gonna be. You know what I'm saying? We'll park that bus right there.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Yeah, we'll park that right there.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

It's all about exposure.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

It's all about recognizing the needs of your child. Absolutely. And uh what you feel the need may be maybe totally out wrong.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

And I but I think that's why it's important to have some type of wise counsel as you go through it to help on that journey so that you can make sure that the child gets what they need and you get what you need to be able to support the child.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yes. And what I have read that, you know, going to maybe counseling with the child could help in allowing them the opportunity to try and kind of understand their heritage from an aspect of when they're in those adolescent awkward moments of stages of their life, right? Find support groups that can also help them kind of understand their emotional health.

SPEAKER_04 52:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

Because they may go through certain periods of time where uh one culture may never experience anything like that, but in the culture of that child, because it's nature of who they are, right? They go through a certain period of something that they're like, oh, wait a minute, what's what's going on?

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

And they don't know how to handle that. So you have to be able to reach out to those in that community, in that culture, counseling, mentoring, something that's gonna allow them to be able to understand what they're going through physically and emotionally.

Counseling, Mentors, And Support

SPEAKER_00 53:30

So let me give you some some data points. Okay. There was a study that they identified they did a pool from you know, adult transracial adoptees. And they said, well, you know, what are the top 10 things that you want to help people understand that maybe you didn't get or you did get? And it was very interesting. So the first one, and it goes back to what we said is needed, it says, love your kids with your whole heart. That's that's first and foremost, beyond anything. That means totally invest in them, right? And then it says, love may not be everything, but it's a great step in the right direction. Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, if there's a love, you know, we we believe when we subscribe, love covers a multitude of things at the core, right? Number two was let your children know that you are always open to talking about adoption and race by bringing these topics up periodically. So what you do is you model for them the normalcy of these discussions, exactly. Something you and I didn't get. Yeah, I got it, I guess part-time, part, yeah, because this is what it is, but then it stopped. So I didn't get a comma behind, but I got a period. A period. You didn't even get the book open for yours. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So again, you these are the first two out of the ten, and it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We agree. Yeah, number three, ever so often check in with your children to see what they are experiencing with the adoption. Again, normalizing this conversation of it being there. You know, don't assume that they will tell you on their own.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

Right. You have to add, and that's with any kid.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

That's parenting.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

That's parenting. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

That's parenting. So, you know, if you're listening, this may be 10 things that adults want to say, hey, as a parent, you might want to do these things.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

So you might want to change a few of the you know, pinpointed words in it so that it helps. But um, I'm looking at this list now and like, okay, what do I need to do? Right. Number four, it's easier if you adopt more than one child of color. Having someone else in the family of your race makes life easier.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

I could see that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Because we even now we bond together.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Bonding together, and we can go through whatever we can go through together.

SPEAKER_00 55:47

So, again, they were the same, they were adopted by the same race, but our guests that we had previously were her and her brother were both adopted and together.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

Yes, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 55:56

So they had a different bond with that. This one right here goes back to the pool illustration you you demonstrated from this is us. This is us. Hang out with other mixed race families. It says your children need to see that there are other families that look like theirs.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

That's powerful.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

It is a it's better if some of these families are also adoptive families.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

That's powerful.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Again, normalizing what I'm going through. And if I see myself in others, then it's like, oh, it's almost like the visualization gives permission for me to exist.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

Exactly, because you're not the only one in a only one in a what did it what do we call it, a nucleus family.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

Yeah. That's good. Number six, especially for girls, seek out ways to show them that they are beautiful women, and that beautiful women come in all colors. Be aware that the media bias is toward Caucasian women. Yeah, I think we are at a place where it is beginning to show a difference of who's out here, but we still have to fight for it because that still is being plugged in. This is what beautiful looks like. Yeah, this is the prototype for the body, and all of those. And I again I didn't really know this growing up, but having daughters, it really I had to figure out like who are they watching on TV that they feel like this is what it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

That's all that's all marketing.

Ten Insights From Adult Adoptees

SPEAKER_00 57:37

Yeah, and it's effective marketing. Oh, it's working, it's effective marketing, and again, I look at it from a consumer of so let me back up. We used to BET used to show videos a long time ago, right? Yes, they don't show videos anymore, they show ratchetness. But and we would watch 106 in part. We were younger, and then when we had Jayla, we would be cooking, and I'm still in the routine of that. And I would have it on, not that I'm watching, I'm listening to the music. Jayla was crawling around, and Janice was like, cut that off. I'm like, for what? And she was like, I don't want her to see that image and think that that's the only image that is available for her to attain, to aspire to be. Yeah. To be shaking her butt on this. I don't want that to be the image right now. Right. When she gets older, she's gonna be exposed to right, and but she'll be able to make that exactly. She'll have the ability. There you go. So and it was very like, hmm, okay. I had to eat some humble pie, like you're right. But again, that representation is huge. We already talked about the baby dolls, making sure that they look like them for girls, right? Yes, if possible, this is number nine. It says living in a diverse neighborhood does not solve all racial problems.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

What? It doesn't.

unknown 59:03

What?

SPEAKER_00 59:03

Can I borrow some sugar? You know, your family will still stand out. Yes. So don't think just because I've adopted now, I'm gonna go plant myself here, you're still gonna have challenges. You're still gonna have to work at it, you're still gonna have to merge the cultures and create a sense of belonging.

SPEAKER_03 59:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 59:21

It's not just gonna happen. Truth be told, some of us that grew up in those neighborhoods don't get accepted for various reasons. So again, just because you come in, then you have this kid that fits the mold, don't mean oh, it's gonna be welcome in.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 59:38

You know, exactly. Number 10, and this is very profound. It says, don't pretend. One, that differences don't exist. Don't sweep it under the rug like oh yeah, we're just we're just good. No, no, there is a difference. Speak to it, take the taboo away from it. Yes, number two, make it normal. Don't pretend that race doesn't matter. We live in a world where unfortunately this man-made construct of race matters, it matters since the beginning of time, and then don't pretend that everything is okay. Have the discussions about what's going on in the world, right? Have the discussions of the struggles that will take place. It pains me to think about the world that my daughters will grow up in because I don't know what it's gonna look like. Yeah, you know, I re my parents grew up from the South in the racial time. Jim Crow and they were like, oh, baby, you you're gonna have a much better world than ours, and you I see the opportunities, and you know, they would have never thought that we've had a a black president, and just a lot of the things that we have made, we've moved the mark in the positive direction. I'm gonna be honest with you. Right now, are we? Oh, yeah, that's a whole different podcast show that we can start. But to think about it would be very insensitive for me to set my daughters up for failure to help that to make them think that oh, everything's great, it's all roses. No, it's it's hard out here. It's hard. Like mental health is real. It is some days you just don't want to get up and go, but you gotta fight through it. You gotta remember whose you are, who you are, and who you're doing it for. And you gotta have that village of support. So don't pretend. That's that's a nugget right there in itself.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

That is a nugget.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:39

If you've been pretending, hey, go to the mirror and look at it and say, hey, let's let's do a reality check of what's really going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

Really, and there are some examples out here of real life voices of different children who experience living in a transracial family. When I was doing some you know, research one on this topic, okay, I came across a video where this young man, he's he's black and his mother is white, and he was talking about how he felt originally that you know that's just my mom, you know, no big deal. But he had questions, you know, and she wasn't able to give him different answers. So fast forward, he's in college and she stated that she kind of stayed away from school because she didn't want to, I guess, blow up who he, you know, who his mom was. She felt that he would be ashamed of who she was. But he his thing was my mom, you're my mom. Right. That's the only person I know. You're my mom. When I look at you, I look at you and you're my mom. Right. Right. And so, but she didn't realize that's how he felt. So she felt if she stayed away, but when she, I think I can't remember exactly, but when she did go to visit or whatever, he was so, oh, that's my mom, and he's hugging her and all that stuff, and she was like, taken back because she didn't really expect that was gonna happen. But because she showed him that love, because she gave him the opportunity to kind of seek who he was as he was growing up, she empowered him, she empowered him, and he was the benef the benefactor of that, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:41

And he gave the love right back to her.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

But my thing is, I wonder why she felt if she did all these things to kind of prepare him, why did she feel that he would be ashamed?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

I think because it goes back to what I was saying earlier of that moment of this is what I've done for you. Does your culture accept me? When you go out there and you learn things, are you gonna look at me differently?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:10

Because right, she he's outside of her rubble. So now he's being exposed.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

Correct. And and she may not have been able to do everything how she wanted it, right? May not have been perfect, and it's like now that you go out and you are able to look back, do you judge me?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And then that's what that's what that's a real that's a real thought.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

That's a real truth that I think you have to come to terms with.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

Yeah, because you don't know what you don't know what people are telling him or what he's seeing that he wasn't able to get when he was younger. So I didn't, yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:49

You know, and that goes to the ethical considerations that you know they talk about. So critics will say that you know, these transracial adoptions will may unintentionally, that's what they say, strip children of their birth culture or reinforce power and balances. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So again, that goes to a whole different dynamic. You know, laws like you know, the multi-ethic placement act. You know, research that when you get an opportunity. The key is being an intentional parent, understanding that it's not about me, it's about those in my care.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

I want to prepare them for their journey. And I and again, that goes back to what I was saying earlier, how the wisdom sometimes is lost because at 17, 18, I'm not saying that you can't be a good parent. It's not what I'm saying. But what I am saying is you have still opportunities and things to learn. Now, the other side of it is at 17, 18, you may be just as immature as somebody 30, 35.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

Okay, so I want to put that out there that I'm aware.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:01

But based on the natural progression, there are opportunities that aren't afforded to you in your 18 years of life. Right. That are afforded to that 30-year-old.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:11

You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's where the gap comes in, that that wisdom is missed. Not to say that you cannot, that you won't, that you can't be a good parent. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is there are enhancement opportunities because you got some 30 and 35 year olds that don't take advantage of that. Exactly. Okay. So I want to be very, very consistent in saying that, right? The key, like I said, is intentional parenting and adoption isn't about you know rescuing, it's about relationship and respect. I think if you go into it with that rescue mentality, it's a recipe for disaster.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:46

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

Because now you're taking the ownership of I did this, I did that. And that'll come. That will come. You'll get that. Like the case appointed the video you were talking about, where now the public affirmation.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

That part.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

Yes, that part.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

Once you get the public affirmation, everything else will take care of itself.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

Everything else.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

You don't have to shout from the mountaintop. Let others do the shouting for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:15

Exactly. And he had no problem with that. But going back, just to kind of tight us up in a little bow, kind of going back to Sandra Bullock, and what I did was I kind of research a little bit of her interviews over the years in regards to her honor and acknowledging the importance of her children's culture and their heritage. One of the things she said, as we've we've mentioned time and time again, love makes a family, but awareness matters. No child is the same. You raise them the way they need to be raised. She said, love and committed commitment defines a family. But she also recognizes that her children's experiences as black kids in America will differ from her own. Because you're looking at a white woman and a black child, which will grow up to be a black male. That's right. And a black woman. So she said, honoring their heritage, I have the responsibility to teach them who they are, where they come from, and to help them understand the world they're growing up in. She also talks about ensuring her son and daughter learn about and celebrate black culture and history. Listening and learning. She emphasizes that she continually educates herself on racial issues and seeks out diverse communities and voices, saying she wants her children to see themselves represented in mentors, teachers, and friends. Very woke. And then she said, preparing them for bias. As a white parent of black children, I know I will never fully understand, but I can prepare them for situations they may face. She discusses the need to have frank conversations, like you mentioned, about racism and safety from a young age. And she's prepared to prepare them for life as black children. Because she doesn't know, but she knows where she needs to go. And she's well, she's willing to go out and find everything she needs to help them be prepared. Right. And not sweep it underneath the rug and say, oh, don't worry about them.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

And that's huge. That is huge. I I think that that illustrates a blueprint of what it should look like. You know, transracial adoption, it proves uh that family is about commitment, love, and not matching skin tones.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:18

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:19

And support. And support. You know, even in our households, the skin tones aren't all the same. They differ.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:26

They differ.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:27

You know what I'm saying? So we again we we've got to redefine a lot of things. You know, but love must be paired and intentional. It has to be an intentional action. Like you just stated, it has to be a level of learning. Learning, where do I fall short? What do I need to know? Listening. My mom used to say listening is twice as important. You know why? Yeah, two ears and one mouth. That's right. Yeah. And celebrating the child's full identity.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:57

That part, being able to celebrate who they are, just because I celebrate you, it does not diminish who I am.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

It doesn't. I don't have to turn down my light in order for you to shine. Exactly. You know, anybody out there that is considering adoption, I would ask this question. Am I ready to embrace the child's culture as part of our family culture? And that's from a transracial standpoint. Even if it's within the same race, there's still going to be some differences. There is.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

Because of how we were raised.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

And the environment and the community that we were raised in and what we see.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:38

All of the above. Again, are you willing to embrace that child's culture? For all of us, I would say this. How can we support these families? How can we be part of the solution and not the problem? You know, what can we do to make sure that we honor the stories of the adoptive parents and of the children?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:02

Yeah.

Ethical Questions And Intentional Parenting

SPEAKER_00 1:12:02

I think this is one avenue, these types of platforms having these transparent, rich discussions. In your families, again, we all got stuff, we all got secrets or whatever you want to call it. Begin to normalize that. And it's unfortunate that the only time these discussions happen is at funerals. That's when people have a moment of clarity that they want to now start unpacking. And then once you go back to your whatever it may be, business as usual. In that moment, that emotional tub, it's like, cuz we need to do this, cuz we need to do that. Yes. And then it's you look up and it's been another two years. Oh, cuz we got to do this. Man, you said that to me two years ago, man. The last funeral. Right, the last funeral we were at. So I just think that that's a cultural rinse and repeat that we do. And it's passed down. And I think that some one of the generations has to break that cycle.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:00

And it's across the board.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

It's across the board.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:03

Yeah, yeah. Don't think that it's just us.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

No, it's across the board.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:06

Yeah. Yeah. It's across the board. That's all I'm going to say. Yeah. You know, if this conversation inspired you, um, share it. Like it, uh, comment on it, send it in your own, you know, send us your story. Let us know how it impacted you. Thank you for listening to the So I'm Adopted podcast. We hope that this was informative and educational. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at So I'm Adopted. Also subscribe to our YouTube channel, So I'm Adopted. And again, thank you for listening. And until next time, make the choice to begin your healing journey.