No, We Are Not “Damaged” We Are Adopted

We come back with a real talk about adoption myths and how they shape the way people see adoptees and adoptive families. We trade labels like “damaged” or “lucky” for truths that leave room for gratitude, complexity, curiosity, and healing. 

We start by bring back our famous adoptee spotlight. Lisa talks about actor Logan Browning and how publicly sharing her adoption felt freeing, especially while navigating questions about racial identity. John brings Edgar Allan Poe into the conversation, tracing how non-traditional family structures can shape creative geniuses and reminding listeners that you do not need a “perfect” origin story to become whole.

Then we dig into the core of the night: adoption myths that show up at family gatherings, in media, and sometimes inside our own heads. We unpack why adoptees are not “damaged,” why gratitude does not cancel curiosity, and why adoption does not magically erase identity questions. We also talk reunion reality: not every adoptee wants to search for birth parents, and access to sealed adoption records and an original birth certificate can depend on state laws. Throughout, we keep coming back to what helps most: supportive environments, respectful language, and open conversations that make space for both love and complexity.

If you’ve ever felt boxed in by other people’s assumptions about adoption, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review with the biggest adoption myth you want to see retired for good.

Music by Curtis Rodgers IG @itsjustcurtis
Produce and Edited by  Lisa Sapp 
Executive Producer Lisa Sapp
Executive Producer Johnnie Underwood

 Tell us your story or leave a comment by following us on 
IG soimadoptedpod
FB so.i'm adopted
Youtube SO...I'M ADOPTED
Email soimadopted@gmail.com

Transcript

Welcome Back And Life Updates

SPEAKER_04 0:10

This journey is not what we take. Together we grapple with raw emotions. This service from adoption stories. Want you to be comfortable enough to get back and go with us for this journey as we die into adoption. Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of So I'm Adopted.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

I am John. And I'm Lisa. And we are adopted. What's going on, Lisa? It's been a minute since we hopped on the platform. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:41

I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Just came back from vacation. So I'm refreshed and ready to, you know, keep getting these podcast recordings done for our fans.

SPEAKER_05 0:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

How about you? What's been going on with you?

SPEAKER_05 0:58

No vacation for me yet. One is coming up, though. Looking forward to it, trust me. Just recently, I was down in VA and a lot of accomplishments for my girls. My youngest daughter got inducted into honors college when then she was in a fashion show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a little painful to watch her have grown up. She's just matured so much in the last year. It's mind-blowing. And then my oldest became a member of the Divine Nine, so Alpha Kappa Alpha and Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Get it right.

SPEAKER_05 1:33

Yeah, I know. I know. I got a whole lineage in this household, so I got to get it right. But definitely, you know, as of any parent, you want to see your children survive. You want to see them thrive and be successful. And to watch that dynamic of their growth has really just been humbling for me. And I'm just thankful for it. And, you know, on this end, you know, we're we're good. Janice is good. Father-in-law is good. You know, I could complain, but I'm not. Got no.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

And it's and it's not gonna change anything either.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

It's not, because it's still gonna come.

SPEAKER_05 2:10

That's right.

Famous Adoptee Logan Browning

SPEAKER_05 2:12

So so let's go ahead and jump into our famous adoptee. It's been a minute since we did one of these ones. So who do you have as your famous adoptee this week?

SPEAKER_03 2:22

So do you remember the girl that was on Meet the Browns, and then she was on Dear Wifey, no, Dear White People show Dear White People?

SPEAKER_05 2:33

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

So her name is Logan Browning.

SPEAKER_05 2:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

And she revealed a couple years ago, maybe not a couple, but 2018. For the first time, she revealed that she was adopted. And it was interesting because she, you know, she's been out in the scene for a minute. She explained that she hadn't shared that before, because she was on the Breakfast Club, because she simply didn't feel it was anyone's business and she didn't want to be, she didn't want it to be a thing in the industry for her.

unknown 3:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Even though she's known since she was little, but they didn't make it a big deal when they told her. You know, she said she was like five, five years old when she found out, and it's like, oh, like kind of like you, I guess. She said she was in the bathtub and they they told her. Um, you know, five years old. Oh, and by the way, you're adopted. And she was raised in a in a in a black household, but she's biracial. Her mother is white, and her father is black. So, but she was raised in a two-parent household that was that was black. So she identifies as being being black. And then she describes the feeling when she did come out with it, that it was freeing a freeing moment for her when she finally, you know, told people that she was she was adopted.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

That's interesting because, like you said earlier, if she you know thought it wasn't anybody's business, then she kind of, oh, I found out when I was five. But again, that internal monologue, it can have you in a place of paralysis. It's it's so interesting how everybody responds to their own story differently and create their own narratives.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

But what what it was that got her to reveal it was her playing the role in dear white people. I've seen it maybe once or twice, but it helped her explain her relationship of her character on dear white people. So that's what kind of pushed her into, you know, publicly sharing, you know, it helped her with her character.

SPEAKER_05 5:05

Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Because she was, what did she say? She said, because people often questioned her own racial identity since she was raised black, despite her biological, biracial roots. So again, I didn't really see, I think maybe I saw one or two episodes of it. So I know it had a lot of overtones as far as who you are as a person, how you identify yourself. So I think it really hit home for her while she was portraying that character. And and I guess she did some self-reflecting. I thought it was a movie, I didn't realize it was a series. It was a series.

SPEAKER_05 5:48

Oh, okay. Yeah, like so. I guess I just saw the first one and I thought it was it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Yeah, I thought yeah, it was a series.

SPEAKER_05 5:57

Good stuff.

Edgar Allan Poe And Creative Roots

SPEAKER_05 5:58

Well, mine is uh a famous name, and I had no clue that he was adopted. But mine is Edgar Allan Poe. Did you know that?

SPEAKER_03 6:07

No, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_05 6:09

Yeah, he, you know, most people recognize him for his creative writing and that aspect, but few people connect him to adoption. Uh, he was taken in by the Allen family, but he wasn't formally adopted, but they took him in. And this is what is so powerful. And it's, I guess, parallel to what you're saying. He said that his early instability in his life would really influence his writing themes.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Really?

SPEAKER_05 6:39

That is what sparked his ability to, I guess, craft things the way that he saw them, which made it interesting to those outside that had no clue of where his foundation was or where it was coming from, to be able to create these imagery opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Oh wow. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 7:01

The key though, and if you know, on I always try to give somebody something to take away from that may be listening that is can draw from that story, is that non-traditional family structures can shape creative geniuses.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Say that again.

SPEAKER_05 7:18

Non-traditional family structures can shape creative geniuses. So, you know, if somebody's out there and they're they're listening and they're questioning just because they don't have the traditional, you know, family root system, it's okay. Trust me. It is okay. You don't have to have what everybody else has. Maybe you had to have the special sauce so that you could be, you know, resilient to be able to bring light to it.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Exactly, to make you who you are today or who we've become, who we've known you to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:55

Absolutely. Absolutely. So very, very interesting. It's it's always interesting how the two people that we pick for our famous adoptees have some type of connection in addition to the adoption piece of it.

Why Adoption Myths Persist

SPEAKER_05 8:10

So but let's let's jump into our our theme tonight. And I think this is very powerful because we've touched on it in other episodes with just some of the things that we've internally wrestled with. But we're gonna really dive into some myths about adopted kids.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

And they are some myths out there.

SPEAKER_05 8:34

There are some myths, you know. I'm not gonna lie, when when I first looked at the topic, I was hesitant to really dig deep in it because I said, uh oh, let me see how many of these are gonna step on my toes, or how many I may have thought or you know, have a bias against.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

So I don't know, or experience, correct, correct, correct.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

All right, so what we ultimately want to do, we want to break down some common myths, you know, and replace them with some real perspectives tonight. All right, so let's jump in the first one. You ready?

SPEAKER_03 9:13

I am ready,

Myth One Adopted Kids Are Damaged

SPEAKER_03 9:16

all righty.

SPEAKER_05 9:16

The myth number one, and it says that adopted kids are damaged. So before we even start to unpack it, being a fellow adoptee, when you hear that, what does that say to you? What does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_03 9:39

For me, I I don't feel that I was damaged. I mean, I feel I don't know how I felt, but I know damage was not like the number one word that I would use to say just because I was adopted. Because that gives a connotation that, oh, you know, and I'm not saying everybody's story is different of why you ended up being adopted. That doesn't mean that you weren't loved, that doesn't mean that you know you came from an abusive family dynamics or anything of that nature. That's because we're not in our so-called biological family, doesn't mean we're we're less damaged than someone who's in their biological family from day one because they could be just more damaged than than us, you know, in that sense.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

So I think that it goes back to how we we normalize trauma. Let's let's start there. One could often say, you know, that whole damaged piece. I can see how someone who is adopted, they may feel like, you know what, I don't have what they have on the other side. As to your point, the grass is not always green on the other side. Let's let's put that on the table. But when you begin to start comparing, and I think that's a very dangerous thing to do, you can look at yourself as less than damage was never something that I looked at based on what my the underwoods told me. I didn't look at adoption as a negative thing. I don't, I never really looked at it as a negative thing. It was a just a thing because it starts off, adoption may begin with separation or and transition or you know, those identity questions, but it doesn't mean that someone is damaged. Those are realistic questions that you can have. Let me give some give some research. It says that from the National Um Adoption Survey found that most adopted children show high levels of resilience and well-being when raised in a supportive environment that goes to the nature versus nurture aspect.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 12:02

You know, so that resilience piece. Now I will tell you that, and I shared this in previous episode how there was a a narrative that I told myself of if my biological mom gave me away, how long before you walk out thinking about my wife? You you know what I'm saying? So there are those narratives, but that doesn't mean I'm damaged. That just means that's my viewpoint of how I was raised, my lived experience.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

And for you, because you've known all your life, let's use me for an example. I never thought I was damaged because I didn't know I I was adopted. So I'm just living my life normal. So I'm not searching for identity, I'm not trying to transition from being with my biological family over to this new family and trying to adjust in their dynamics of their family, anything of that nature. It's just I grew up with my family. Right to me that I was adopted. But even once I found out, I didn't feel all of a sudden I'm damaged. Right. I'm curious, you know, trying to seek who I really am, but I'm not damaged.

SPEAKER_05 13:25

I I think that it's it goes more to exploring or an emotional processing versus brokenness. And I think that that is a realistic human response. But again, to be able to go through that, and I definitely agree with the fact of you know, that supportive environment, it really helps as you go through. Let me ask you this question. And I want you to just reflect for a minute. Did you ever feel like people assumed something was wrong with you once they found out that you were adopted? And for you, again, because you found out so much later.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Later.

SPEAKER_05 14:07

Do you think people questioned or was like, oh, that's why she acts that way, or you know, anything of that nature?

SPEAKER_03 14:15

I can't say because again, once I found out I was already an adult, I was already established in who I was. I I can't say. Now, I do know that hindsight of now knowing what everybody else knew, you know, certain people will bring things up. Oh, you know, so and so had mentioned something when you got married, and they felt, I guess, like, oh, it's so nice that they're doing this for her, you know, their adoptive daughter, they're giving her this big wedding, you know, things of that nature. And and, you know, and that's when they're like, look, she doesn't know she's adopted, so you know, you keep that to yourself.

SPEAKER_05 15:00

But let me let me ask you this question. And I'm listening to the narrative that you put. Do people have to continuously say adopted, like your adopted daughter or that adopted son, or things of that nature? It's because, like you said, it's already like we know or we don't know, but the what is that negative when people add that piece to the equation or to the statement? Is it like a jab?

SPEAKER_03 15:27

It's it could be two things can be true at the same time, right? So if you look at it from our perspective, and I don't know if this is right or wrong, but sometimes when we're speaking to people, we'll go, we have to do a disclaimer. So I'm adopted, hence the name of the of the podcast. But then on the other hand, you know, other people saying, Oh, that's my adopted sister or that's my adopted cousin. I don't I I've never experienced that. They're just my cousin, they'll just say they're cousin. So, and again, this I'm talking, I'm an adult by this time, but that'd be I guess that would be a question for you because you grew up with your cousins. They didn't, they didn't necessarily go, oh, this is my adoptive cousin, John.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

No, I was always John, you know, that's who I was, even and I'm reflecting, even with the opportunity of being in the space with my brothers and my sister when our grandmother passed, and my brother looking at people like, yeah, this is my brother. None of them said my adopted.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Well, I guess they wouldn't because they're they wouldn't, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:53

Yeah, but I mean it's still the fact of trying to clarify why we never seen them before.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:00

I I remember a sense of of pride. My my youngest brother, he was introducing me to somebody and he was like, That's my brother. And he almost had this look like say something. Right. And I was and I felt like, oh, that's what I'm talking about, bro. Because I didn't have that. So that's the thing. Exactly. And then my oldest brother, he took me, you know, to the cookout because we're in the country and we we sat around, they had barbecued and we kicking, and he was like, Yeah, this is my brother, and this and that. And you know, it was just like it was like a homecoming, more or less.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:34

Yeah, you know, a homecoming that I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Exactly. And that's what happened with me. So the first time I saw like a large group of my biological family was at my aunt's funeral. First time I've ever seen her, she's in a casket. I digress. That's a story by itself. But my during the repass, my mom's intro, you know, going around with me and introducing me to family members. She didn't say, Oh, this is my child who I gave up for adoption, you know, all these years ago. She said, This is my daughter. And people like, oh, oh, oh. Oh, that's a long story. And then she just kept going.

SPEAKER_05 18:21

That's right. I'm not gonna give you opportunity. Just want to put it out there.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

This is my daughter, and you know, this is your sowish, this is your cousin, this is your your, you know, whoever it was, or you know, she was introduced to me, and she just kept going. So she didn't, she didn't get into details of, oh, I thought you had three kids. You know, she didn't do she didn't do anything like that to sit there and and start explaining who I was, just this is my daughter. So I felt I felt good with that. But it was funny looking at these people's faces, they were like, huh? What?

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

And then some of them knew that who I was, some of them knew that I was gonna be there. So and they embraced me really nicely.

SPEAKER_05 19:04

Good stuff. All right,

Myth Two You Should Feel Lucky

SPEAKER_05 19:06

good stuff. Well, let's jump to myth number two. What you got?

SPEAKER_03 19:09

So, myth number two is adoptive kids should feel lucky. Oh, and meaning the myth is that adoptive kids sometimes hear is that they should feel lucky because they were the ones, you know, that someone chose them to come into their family, that you should be grateful, you know, about what's going on as far as someone, you know, deciding to choose you to come into their family. You know, they're trying to it's once I found out, it's funny because my siblings would say, Well, you're the one who got the better deal. And I was like, Well, I agree. I agree wholeheartedly, but I don't think I'll could say that I was the the lucky one because it's not lucky, because number one, even though I'm grateful, I'm still confused, right? I'm still trying to my curiosity has now reached this peak for me to figure out, okay, why did I why did I even end up being adopted? Right. And then I start reflecting, well, if this isn't my real life, what does my real life look like? Right?

SPEAKER_05 20:43

You use that term though, real life. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Well, well, yeah, because I'm gonna tell you, once I really found out, I mean, that was that was the thing. I was, I was, I was like, well, this is this is not my life. This is this is Lisa Holtwinger's life. I'm not Lisa Holtwinger. This is her life. What's my real life look like? I I was there for a minute, yeah. I wasn't there long, but I was there, you know. But I wasn't saying that I was, you know, oh, I'm lucky that they they chose me or anything like that. But I was curious, I was confused because all this time I'm thinking one thing, and then something totally different was the real reality of it all, you know.

SPEAKER_05 21:28

It does, it does. So I'm gonna go a different angle. I I guess I would say that on one hand, I would embrace, you know, that lucky, thankful. I would replace it with thankful because you look at so many stories where you have, you know, parents that just do things to kids, leave them in trash cans and in different things, or you know, so I I reckon this comes with maturity now, being fifty years old. Now understanding. Well, no, because I had an understanding and appreciation growing up because some of my peers that had biological families that they lived with, their situation wasn't the best. You know, so I was thankful for the foundation that I was blessed with. You know, so and I think that comes to a place where you have, again, my spiritual belief. I looked at it where, you know, I was thankful for it in that regard. But that's not to say that I didn't have moments where, like you said, I was confused and I had questions, but I was able to have all of that in a safe space.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Right.

SPEAKER_05 22:41

So that is the beneficial saving grace, for lack of better words. I didn't have to kind of go through that on my own while being like abused or something aversive taking place.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Exactly. Exactly. But there has let me give you a little stat here. According to the Pew Research Family Survey, most adoptive families report very strong bonds, but adoptees still commonly experience curiosity about their biological background. Who wouldn't? Right. I I mean to me, I was like, I just want to know, you know, what happened before November 30th, 1967. I just need to know what, you know, because I'm a curious person. I just need to know, was it, you know, was it two cross lovers who just couldn't put it together? Or, you know, was it, you know, a rape situation or or whatever it may be for me to exist. Because regardless, it was meant for me to exist. And these two people to come together for me to exist. Got that. I understand because God already had the plan laid out.

unknown 24:01

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

And I want to know it for myself so I can have a better understanding of the whole dynamic of it.

SPEAKER_05 24:09

Yeah, you're right. I mean, I think for me, you know, even in scenarios, I remember uh when I first had an opportunity to sit across from my biological mom and we just dialogue it. And there were so many questions, and I had to filter very quickly of what I was gonna ask. And when she told me, she said, you know, you can ask anything, she says, and if I'm able to answer it, I will. She says, if I can't, I'll tell you I can't. Because it was still a matter of healing for her. And for me, I've always been more concerned with everybody else than myself in the scenario, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

No, I I experienced it firsthand. Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_05 24:54

But I think that's what you've been doing. You know, and it's I I guess because for so long I didn't know, I'm just appreciative for the opportunity now. And I did not want to do anything to to damage where she pulls back, right? Um, you know, especially now with her being, you know, what I have left, what I have. I'm I'm thankful for that, you know. I and I did not want to mess up that opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

I get it. I I mean it makes perfectly good sense. Makes sense. Did you ever feel that you whenever you did talk about it? Because, well, again, you kind of already mentioned it, that you didn't have a bad experience. So were you always talking the positive of adoption? Since you've already known you you you've known since you were a child, any opportunity that you had to talk about it, did you talk about it? And was it something that you know was a positive thing for you to do?

SPEAKER_05 26:02

So I think early on when I first found out I didn't have the language to even articulate it.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 26:09

And then it kind of just was there. Uh, you know, it would come up in family discussion when we go out of town, that they would talk about stories of when I was adopted. But it became dormant and then it didn't really resurface until got ready to become a father. That's that's when it took on a different meaning and I became more curious. But even to that point, because Carolyn, you know, expressed her concern, she became defensive for lack of better words. I did not, I didn't press the if the issue. Right. So, you know, I kind of just said, okay, well, I'll just leave it alone. Um, and then after she transitioned, then you know, I talked to my father about it, and he was like, Well, I want to know too. So that gave me the permission, you know, to open the door. So when I when I when I talked about it, I always spoke about how thankful I was. I mean, the fact that my dad, because I wasn't of his DNA, but he still trusted me with his name to be the first person. Yeah, that's huge. You roll, you roll in the dice there because you don't know what you don't know the ingredients in there and what you're gonna get. And you're praying that your your nurturing will help shape and overcome any nature. The blessing is that I had good nature as well as good nurturing, which makes me a good person.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

That makes you a good person. And my but my brother was the the a junior, and so but when all this came out, I'm like, who does that?

SPEAKER_05 27:52

Right, but apparently, at least two people in this world does, and you gotta look at it from the other side, you know, it's that mindset of I can't have kids, but I want my name to go on, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Right, and his name is going on. We're down to Trey, and then Trey has a son, so it's the four, yeah, four of them. I beat four of them, so it's it's still holding on.

SPEAKER_05 28:18

Well, I think this train is gonna end with me because I got two girls, and we didn't we didn't shut down the factory, so I can't uh unless it's immaculate inception. Then we got real questions.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

We got questions, and there's a situation going on.

SPEAKER_05 28:37

We're gonna have a different podcast.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Oh, that's funny. That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Uh what's the next one?

Myth Three Adoption Fixes Everything

SPEAKER_05 28:50

So the next one is, and this is interesting, that adoption fixes everything. And I would have to believe that that comes from, and I'm gonna use a word, a place of ignorance, right? Because one would look to say, oh, if you get a family, then everything will work itself out. Well, no, not necessarily. And it goes back to that nature versus nurture piece. You know, I can get a piece of wagboo steak, but if I put it in a dirty bowl to season it, it's gonna come out bad.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

You know, sometimes, you know, people believe that you know, that adoption will just take away every challenge in a child's life. And that's not the case. You know, you still have you know challenges, but you know, adoption can provide you with stability, it can provide you with that love and opportunity, but what it doesn't erase is still, and you brought up this earlier, that position of having identity questions of you know, where do I come from? I had all of the nurture in the world, but when I looked in the mirror, I wanted to know, you know, where do I come from? Did I have any brothers or sisters? Was there anybody else walking around that looked like me or that thought like me? And you know, and then to sit across from my mom, and even now we still have little koinky dinks like the whole chicken wing thing, you know. She was like, Oh, you got chicken wings too? And Reese's cups, and you know, just little stuff.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Little things, yes, and those things blow my mind because I wasn't raised right by you, but yet it's still in our DNA.

SPEAKER_05 30:38

And it just meant the world. I felt like a little kid, like, oh yeah, she was like, what, baby?

SPEAKER_03 30:45

And I'm like, oh my mom, she played solitaire. I played solitaire all the time. And then one time we were just sitting and we're both playing solitaire together. That those little teeny things make a huge impact for adoptees. I know it did based off of what you're saying and myself. It's just crazy, crazy. And then there's little facial expressions and things of that nature that you know, my niece or my siblings would say, you know, oh, that's what she did, you know, that's what Granny did, or you know, that's what mom did. I'm like, oh, thank you. Now that I cut my hair, she's like, Oh, you look just like your mom. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 31:37

Those affirmations, that's what those are. Yep. Yep. Let me give you a stat. So it said studies show that adopted children often perform just as well socially and academically as non-adopted children when they have a stable support system. And that's according to the American Academy of Pedia Pediatrics. I mean, again, it I I want to just erase that myth that you know, children who are adopted are bad or less than that we're not. Um, you put us in an appropriate environment, we can thrive and do just as well as anybody else.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

And vice versa.

SPEAKER_05 32:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Kids that's in their, you know, their families can be the opposite. They they may not thrive. So it doesn't matter whether you're adopted or not. It's it's what type of nurturing did you receive? What type of love did you receive? That's what type of support did you receive.

SPEAKER_05 32:40

Right. So let me ask you this. And it goes, I guess this is a myth within this myth, you know, because of the perception of, you know, you should be lucky that somebody brought you into their home. And do you think that people expect adoptees to like be neat all the time or to you know be very tidy? Because they're in, but the perception is because you're in somebody's house that you should be, you know, extra clean and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

But before that, the thing is obviously, why are you adopting in the first place? So obviously, we're fulfilling a need or a want or a desire that you that you want in your life. So for the child, and I guess it will depend on how old the child is and where did they come from? Because if they've been bounced around in the foster care system, and then finally someone adopts them, and they want to make sure that they do everything they need to do to stay, then they may have that perception, okay, I need to be very, very good. I don't need, you know, I don't want to cause any, you know, disturbance. I'm just gonna be in my little corner, make sure everything is right, because I don't want them to send me back because this is the 20th family I've been in, and I'm only 10, right?

unknown 34:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

So sometimes when adoption happens, it takes a moment for the child to bring down their barriers to feel comfortable enough to say, oh, maybe I can leave my stock, you know, on the floor and I'm not gonna get yelled at, or something of that nature. But again, listening from, and I'm not a parent and a parent who adopted someone, but I'm assuming just by my mother who adopted me, I was fulfilling something that she had desired that she couldn't get on her own. And but I was, you know, adopted, you know, six days after I was born. So I wouldn't have had that thought process to always be tidy. And again, I didn't know until I was close to 40. So there you go.

SPEAKER_05 35:11

I'm I'm thinking back, I was just as messy. Well, no, you know what? I wasn't messy um as a child. I was I was a boy, so like I would throw my clothes in different places, but it wasn't ever to a point like I felt like that wasn't my home. And I think that ultimately is at the core of that where you feel like this is not my space. I had my space, my room was horrible at times. Like the from the Cosby show, it was horrible.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

That never crossed your mind because that wasn't a thing because she didn't she didn't present it to you in that manner, you know what I'm saying? She didn't she the nurturing part came immediately.

SPEAKER_05 35:52

Right. She wanted to make sure that I felt welcome and it was our home, you know. So I was a part of it. So here's the next one.

Myth Four Everyone Searches For Birth Family

SPEAKER_05 36:10

And this is interesting because you and I both I guess have fulfilled that this myth. And it says, you know, that all adopted kids find their b want to find their biological parents, which which is a myth. That's a myth.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

That's a myth.

SPEAKER_05 36:30

Because I I do know some people that you know hold grudges against the biological family because they did give them away. But the other side, and again, this is I know I have a bias because I have went through my journey, found my biological family, and I wasn't disappointed by what I found. You know, so in addition to the narrative that was presented to me, it wasn't a negative one. I think that plays a role as well.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Absolutely, absolutely. Because some people may find them, and that's all they wanted. I just needed to find you. Now I'm gonna go back to my life, you go back to your life, and then sometimes they don't click. That part, and I didn't have that experience. It was like, you know, when I first met my my family, it was like, okay, you know, Lisa's just coming from Virginia because that's where she lives and it's the holidays or whatever. Like I've always been there, I just fit right in with no hesitation. It wasn't, you know, awkward or anything of that nature. It's like I was just, I just live out of town. And I think that's that's the difference. But everybody has their own story, everybody feels something differently because I have a strong curiosity. Some people don't. I could just use my brother, for example, when I told him that I was gonna go, you know, well, I didn't say look for my family, but I found my biological mother. You know, he was at that moment, he didn't have a desire to look for him. He said, Well, I know who my parents are, you know, and that's all I need. Okay. I'm curious. I need to know, good, bad, or indifferent. I just, I just need to know. But he wasn't he wasn't in that mind frame at that time. I think he's a little, he's looking at it a little bit differently now. Not to say he's I think he's done a little dab dibble and dabbling and and trying to, you know, see if he can find some information, but he he didn't go full force like I did, right?

SPEAKER_05 38:50

But do you think you gave him license to look for it based on your experience and your journey and how you've handled it?

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Maybe. We never really talk about it. It is weird, it's it's like I kind of keep keep those two lives separate. I think he met he met my biological mother once or twice, twice. First, jasmine is when she graduated from Virginia State. Um, that was the first time he met her. And then I think when Maya graduated from ODU. Yeah, when Maya graduated ODU. So he met her twice, and they they all live in New Jersey, so they don't live that far from each other, but I I haven't had a reason to bring them together as of yet. Not to say that I won't, but it just hasn't happened.

SPEAKER_05 39:53

And but I think that illustrates the point that each adoptee is different. We're all individu we're all individual. Some feel strong curiosity and some don't. Some feel both, and two things can be true at the same time because I had the curiosity, but then I had the contentment as well, based on the scenarios that were around me. Right. You know, so but research says that you know only a portion of adoptees actively search for biological relatives, and the motivators vary widely. One, I think, because we don't necessarily know how to go about doing it, because you you can easily get scammed. Let's be honest, that's a very vulnerable sign. And you can go on this internet and people can just take advantage of you and have you spending all this money where that information is public and free in most cases.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

It is. You're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_05 40:55

Depending on your state, you know, Google, your state, if you're listening and you want to know and start the journey, Google in your state of where you were born, you know, what are the adoption rules and regulations, or what rights do adoptees have in opening their files?

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Now I do know that in recent years, maybe the past 15, 10 to 15 years, a lot of what was sealed at one point, it has a lot of laws have changed when it comes to adoptive, adopting and finding out more information about their biological family. And that's I do know that for a fact for New Jersey. It had changed. I guess, yeah, in the past 15, 15 years, it had changed. And that's when once it changed, it was a little bit more easier for me to locate them and get information. Because I couldn't find, I could, I couldn't get my real birth certificate, but I was able to get non-identifiable information. But now, because the laws have changed, I have my original birth certificate.

SPEAKER_05 42:10

Got it. So you couldn't even get a copy of the birth certificate.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

No, you couldn't get your original birth certificate at all. Those received. But since the laws have changed, I was able to, as an adoptee, I could get it. Only people who could have gotten the original birth certificate would be the birth mother or the adoptive parents.

SPEAKER_05 42:32

Right. That's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Yeah, yeah. Not that it helped me know any more information than I already did once I got it, because the father listed was not my father. It was my sister's father. I was like, and we all know for a fact that's not my father. So I was like, uh, I spent all this. Well, I didn't spend a lot of money, but still, I spent $15 in the free one.

SPEAKER_05 43:11

That's the risk that you run, though.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

That's the risk that you run. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:15

So that's let's I'm gonna give this fifth one. And

Myth Five Identity Struggles Are Unique

SPEAKER_05 43:19

let me think this is the perfect, like closing myth.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 43:25

Um, especially dealing with the the mental health piece and just our discussions and and dealing with with you and counseling and things of that nature, that adopted kids struggle with identity more than anyone else.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

That's definitely a myth.

SPEAKER_05 43:48

I don't know anybody that hasn't at some point struggled with their identity.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Exactly. Exactly. Just like, you know, when you graduate from high school. He's like, well, I want to take a gap year to find myself.

SPEAKER_05 44:05

The devil is alive, not in my household.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

I don't, yeah, I need to spend time with me.

SPEAKER_05 44:14

You've been with you for 18 years. I got a whole pocket full of rebuttal for those.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

But everyone goes through that. Everyone goes through a moment of trying to really identify who they are. Who, you know, where do I come from? Everybody does as a as a as a person.

SPEAKER_05 44:34

Correct. And I think that this again are the narratives that are fed based on people of ignorance that may not have taken the time to get to know someone who was adopted, or you know, been fed some garbage about the process, or even just maybe observe one person that was adopted. And you can't use a wide paintbrush. You have to individualize this journey. It just so happens that you and I have similarities. There are different stories, but there's some core fundamentals that are similar, but there are many different differences in it. But we still had the questions, even though at different times during the race, of who am I? You know, where do I belong? You know, what shaped me? You know, why do I think like I think? You know, why do I sweat the way that I sweat? You know, all of these different things. You know, why does my toe look like this?

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Exactly. I know for me, and when I found out, I said, oh, that explains why I don't think the way that my family thinks. I said, Oh, okay, I'm I'm I'm good. Because sometimes I would listen or you know, just listen to the family conversation. I'm like, what? No, and I'm like, that makes sense. Right. And then my cousins who who, you know, I can look at them and I say, oh, you're you're you're that aunt. Oh, you're that because of their mannerisms and everything and the way they talk as they get older, the more and more they're like our aunts. And it's just mind-blowing to me because I go, oh, okay, I am good. I'm straight. I'm not crazy. Just don't have that DNA in me.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

And my thought processes are different than their thought. I just wasn't thinking, they weren't thinking the same way I was thinking. I'm like, why did you not think like that? I mean, who doesn't think this way? But it makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 46:57

They want to put us in this box because we don't have the traditional, you know, journey into adulthood. But you know, identity formation is normal development for adolescents, all adolescents, not adopted, just all adolescents. That's just human behavior. And again, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

No, no, go ahead, go ahead. I'll I'll remember.

SPEAKER_05 47:25

I was gonna say that the I'm glad we're having this discussion to unpack some of these myths because these are things that if we're not careful or self-aware, or just may not even be in a position to move beyond the myths, we can carry some of these myths and begin to adopt them for ourselves. As it as adoptees, we adopt a lot of common labels that we don't necessarily have to.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

You're right.

SPEAKER_05 47:55

It's a continue, it's a continued pattern that we just put those things in our backpack and we carry them around.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

You're right. And when as you were talking, I was thinking of children who have gender struggles. You know, they go through that. They all this non-binary and things of that nature, they struggle with their identity because they feel they're not in the right body or things of that nature. So it's no different of who you are. Everyone struggles with something of some of some sort, because like you said, that's normal for an adolescent to feel like, oh, not comfortable in their body.

SPEAKER_05 48:47

Or I remember being having to make a shift in what I watched on TV when my girls became of age where they started paying attention. And it wasn't that I was watching anything crazy in my mind, but I was watching like BET and the videos that they were showing because that was, you know, what I had been watching for years.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Right.

SPEAKER_05 49:15

But then to watch my girls watch those videos and begin to emulate that. I didn't want that to be the image that they thought that they had to live up to or aspire to be. I wanted them to have the full gambit and then see where they fit in versus saying, I have to be that in order to be accepted.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 49:39

And like I said, I remember we were watching 106 in part, and Janice had mentioned to me, John, you maybe you shouldn't watch that type of stuff. And I'm like, they ain't paying no attention to it. I'm just, I really wasn't even looking, I was just listening to the music and multi-tank. Right. But when we start talking about the identity crisis, and I'm struggling internally with my identity of who I am and where I belong and all the different narratives, I said, if I can be proactive and help these girls not even have to be exposed to some of these things, some things they're gonna have to just face on their own as they go through life. Exactly. But so let's so then that's the question: do you think that being adopted makes you that much more aware of your identity struggles?

SPEAKER_03 50:33

I just think it adds another layer to it, other than the the normal trying to figure yourself out. On top of that, then you're adopted. I just think it adds to it. I don't think it's any more impactful than the others. Makes sense. It's just one other one other element that you would have to think about.

SPEAKER_05 51:01

Yeah, that's true. So let me ask you this. If you could give the all-beit response, if if there was one thing that you would want people to know about individuals who are adopted, what would you want them to know?

SPEAKER_03 51:20

That we're no different than they are. We have our, you know, we have our struggles, we have our curiosity, just like anyone else has a curiosity. It's no different. And for people to feel that you should accept it and and just move on for for me, like when I first found out my rest of my family, not all of my family, but some of my aunts were like, you know, okay, well, let's go ahead and go back to doing what we would normally do. Oh, let's pump the brakes here a minute. This changed my entire life, my thought process, my pattern, everything. So I have to recalibrate who I thought I was to who I think I should be.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

But as I'm processing, I'm finding out I'm still who that person is. But they didn't recognize that. They just kept going on with life, like it was no no big deal. Well, you had almost 40 years to accept me. Now I have to accept me. Right.

SPEAKER_05 52:39

You know that's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 52:43

So we're no different than anyone else. Right. We just have to, you know, we may be an extra layer onto everything, but we're no different than anybody else in a in a in any family. There's families that, and again, not saying that, you know, our our our lives were be all end all. We just happen to be blessed. Right. And we didn't, you know, we've been fortunate to not have to deal with any, you know, abuse or anything of that nature. But again, that's just our experience. So other people may have that issue, but other people in their regular families may have those abusive issues. So it doesn't matter. We're all the same. What about you? What's what would you what would you say?

SPEAKER_05 53:40

It would be to accept that the adopted family is a real family. Um, and I say that because I've had experiences where I've heard people talk about, you know, because someone adopted a child that makes them less than a mom. And I just totally disagree with that. I think that, you know, a mom is such a powerful descriptor that it's not limited to just giving birth. I think that it goes much deeper to that than that. So I would just encourage individuals to be mindful and understand and accept the fact that, you know, because someone has opened up their home and heart to adopt a child that they didn't give birth to, you know, that's a superpower. I'm gonna be honest. I think it takes a superpower to give up your child for adoption, as well as a superpower to embrace a child for adoption.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:49

So as the young folks say, I think you should put some respect on their name. On both sides of it.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

On both sides.

Replacing Myths With Truths

SPEAKER_05 55:00

On both sides, yes, on both sides of it, yes. Yeah, this has been a very, very enlightening conversation, and I'm glad we did it. Just to recap, the truths that we addressed, adopted kids are not damaged. Uh, adoption involves both love and complexity. Every adoption story is unique. These are truths that I want us to walk away with. Okay? Not the myths, these are the truths. So these are what we will replace those myths with. Because I'm not damaged, and neither are you.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_05 55:36

Adoption involves both love and complexity. We we were loved, we had the nature, but it was challenging of not knowing certain things. They just created a dynamic for us. Every adoption story is unique, like we talked about. My story is my story, yours is yours, but they are uniquely euphoric in being able to dialogue about them in this manner. And then, you know, the last one is very powerful because everybody doesn't have this. Open conversations about adoptions, they help families grow. When you try and sweep it under the rug, I believe it it limits, it hinders the potential growth. Now, does that mean that it the conversation may not have some pain? Yeah, the conversation may have some pain and some challenges and some realities, and everybody copes differently. Yes. But what I've learned go ahead. I was gonna say is what I've learned is that once you get past that part, then that restoration can begin. Now, not everybody has the care the capacity to be able to go through that problem solving or that coping sequence so they fight or flight, you know. I don't want no parts of it, and I respect that. Everybody's

Finding Out Early Versus Later

SPEAKER_05 56:57

different. I'm just thinking that wasn't my maritime.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

So, do you think you knowing so early in your childhood helped you along your journey versus someone finding out when they're 18 or and I'm not even talking about at my age, I'm just talking about during those adolescent years, like either you know, 18 or 15 or something of that nature, versus when you found out when you were a little younger.

SPEAKER_05 57:28

So my statement is very individualized for me, based on how I'm wired. For me, yes, because I probably would have had a level of devastation had I found out later that oh, this is not my truth. Wait a minute. So I have so many questions. Then now I'm having to reel the take back of 18 years of, well, was this truth? Was this authentic? Was you know, what was this? What is it that I don't know that I should know? All these different questions that I'm forced to answer now, just based on how I'm wired. So I had a short duration of lived life that a lot of it I didn't remember because I was young.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

Right.

SPEAKER_05 58:15

But I could start my enlightened journey, knowing that I was adopted from that point on. And it and it helped me. So yeah, I think that for me, it helped. Now, there may be some individuals that it's the complete opposite. It may have done more damage because they may have grown up, you know, looking at things in a negative way. So I'm not saying that my answer is the all be out best answer, but that's the best answer for me, Johnny.

SPEAKER_03 58:47

Got it. Makes sense. This was good.

SPEAKER_05 58:53

This was this was a heavy one tonight.

SPEAKER_03 58:55

This is definitely I think we we dropped some some some knowledge and some nuggets and and snuffed out a couple of myths.

SPEAKER_05 59:06

Yeah, yeah. Um I think that we're gonna have to come back to this one about the myths. Definitely we'll have to come back to do another myth session.

SPEAKER_03 59:18

Okay, yeah, because I'm there's there's more out there. We just touched the surface.

SPEAKER_05 59:24

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I will definitely, yeah, this was enlightened. Even as I'm I'm sitting here, we're closing up, I'm starting to just reflect on some things and some truths and some myths and things. So um

How To Share Your Story

SPEAKER_05 59:39

if you're listening or watching us, make sure that you hit the like and subscribe buttons, share with somebody else that's going through, you know, and give us some feedback. Was this a beneficial dialogue? Were you able to draw something from it? Did you hear something that, you know, piqued your interest, or that you're like, you know what, I can relate to that, whether it's our individual stories or just the statistics that we brought forth, or you know, whatever it may be, we're always looking to be as effective and impactful in the community um as we can. So definitely we appreciate all of the support. You know, give us a shout out on Facebook, send us a message, and just let us know you're you're following us. This is a labor of love that Lisa had, that she encouraged me to jump on, and we are, I think, better together as we've grown in this journey. It definitely has normalized the journey of adoption and our discussions.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

It has. And if you would like to, you know, be a part of our of our podcast, please, you know, send us a message or you know, get in touch with us and let us know. And we'll be more than happy to you know help you share your story and talk about it. So what are we gonna say?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:01

I was gonna agree with you. I agree. The more we talk about it, I think the more understanding we create. Um, we just have to normalize this discussion and try and decrease the the judgment, you know, because one you you can stay in a state of paralysis and it can really hinder your journey outside of you know the community. Because you, you know, you find commonality and you can be safe, but when you go out, you know, are you looking at everybody else like, hmm, do they know?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

Do I right? But the thing is, it's funny, I was doing some research and there's more people that are adopted than people think. Oh, I'm sure. It's more, I mean, by this time it might be more more of us than them.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:57

We've taken over.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:59

Take it over. But it is, yeah, it's more co it's more common than people think. Yep. More common.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:07

It is. Well, I am I'm so glad that we had this discussion. I'm looking forward to the next one.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

Yes, yes. So again, like, share, subscribe. We like to get our impressions up. So, you know, if you're watching this to the full extent of it, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:27

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:28

We appreciate it. And until next time, I'm Lisa.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:32

Oh, and I'm John, and we are adopted.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:38

Thank you for listening to the Stow I'm Adopted Podcast. We hope that this was informative and educational. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Stow I'm Adopted. Also subscribe to our YouTube channel, Stow I'm Adopted. And again, thank you for listening. Until next time, make a choice to begin your healing.