The Gift of Intensive Coach Training for HR Leaders with Kacy Wickenhauser

“I thought I was coaching by prescribing solutions.”
-Kacy Wickenhauser

Have you ever felt pulled into the drama weeds with your clients - the stakeholders who rely on you as an HR or Talent professional?   Me too:)     In today’s episode, my guest shares how she has been able to shift from a prescriber of advice to a coach-like HR leader and the impact that has had.

My guest is Kacy Wickenhauser. Kacy is the Chief HR Officer at Wolverine Power Cooperative, serves as a member of the executive team setting the strategic priorities of the organization, and is responsible for oversight of multiple business divisions including HR, safety, accounting and finance, IT, and administration. 

Kacy's journey with Wolverine began in 2019 when she joined as the Director of Human Resources. Prior to her tenure at Wolverine, she spent a decade at an electric cooperative in Illinois where she held the position of Director of HR for seven years before transitioning into the role of VP of Utility Services. 

She holds a bachelor's degree in psychology, a master's degree in business administration, and is a certified Senior Professional in HR. In 2022, she expanded her skill set by becoming a certified professional coach, enabling her to guide employees at all levels in their career, leadership, and personal development.

In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you’ll discover:

• How working in the staffing industry is a great HR career jump-off point
• The positive impact created by adding intensive coaching skills to your foundational HR Leadership skill set
• A powerful example of acknowledgement in action

Links

• Kacy Wickenhauser on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kacywickenhauser/
• On Instagram: @coach_kacy
• Website: www.coachwithkacy.com

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Transcript

LM Ep 120

 [00:00:00] Have you ever felt pulled into the drama weeds with your clients, the stakeholders who rely on you as an HR talent professional? Me too. In today's episode, my guest shares how she's been able to shift from a prescriber of [00:01:00] advice to a coach-like leader and the impact that has had. My guest is Casey Wicken Hauser.

Casey is chief HR Officer at Wolverine Power Cooperative, and she serves as a member of the executive team there setting the strategic priorities. She's also responsible for oversight of multiple business units, including hr, safety, accounting, finance, it, and administration. Casey holds a bachelor's in psychology, a master's in Business administration, and is a certified senior professional in hr.

A couple of years ago, she expanded her skillset by becoming a certified professional coach like me. I approve enabling her to guide employees at all levels in their career, leadership and personal development. In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you'll discover how working in the staffing industry is a great HR career jump off point.

The positive impact created by adding intensive coaching skills to your foundational HR leadership skillset, and a powerful example [00:02:00] of acknowledgement in action. Great conversation. I know you'll enjoy. Thanks for listening. 

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Hello and welcome back to Talent Management Truth. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell, and today I'm joined by Casey Wicken Hauser. Casey is the CHRO at Wolverine Power. Welcome to the show, Casey.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: Glad to be here.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: So let's kick off and I'd love for you to share with listeners a little bit about who you are and, and your career journey to date.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: Sure. I sort of got into hr probably accidentally like a lot of people when it comes to their careers, but I had planned for my entire life to become a physician and here I am working at hr. So I got outta college and yeah, I got outta college and. Actually found a job in staffing which was a great intro to all things.

People did that for a couple years and then, and then made my way into hr.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: So did you actually go to school for [00:03:00] pre-Med?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I did, yes, but you know what? Organic chemistry is really hard.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: so it was a case of figuring out, once you got into the program, you're like, hmm.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: Yeah, I really, so you can kind of major in whatever you want. So I chose psychology because I really liked that, you know, I, I, I just was always fascinated with people and kinda what makes people tick and how their brains work. And you know, did all my prerequisites and took the MCAT and I was ready to go and then just sort of had an epiphany that I don't know that I want to take on this much debt to go to medical school.

And kind of retooled my whole identity at that time. So it was a tough transition for me, but I think it worked out in the end.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: I love these stories of left turns, like, like, you know, that look so, so, you know, very different from the outside and yet there's really good reasons for them. My, my goddaughter is, is. 19, almost 20. And she's in second year pre-med at Queens University. In, in Kingston, Ontario. And, and yeah. What a year she had first year.

Oh my God.[00:04:00] The course load pretty, pretty crazy. I had a similar experience too. I don't know, I don't think we ever talked about where I, I went through school for to be a French teacher.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: Oh.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: I did an undergrad and did my BA in French language and literature and, and spent a year in France and the whole thing.

And then I came out and immediately did a year teaching degree specializing in that. And I taught for two years. And once I got in there I was like, wow, this isn't what I actually really love, you know? So made a change as well, so, yeah. Yeah, it's very, very interesting how these things happen. So you got into the staffing industry, so you're doing recruitment and so were you working agency side?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I was, I was sort of a, a branch manager or an onsite manager, I think is what we called that. I started out as a career agent and essentially my entire job was to, you know, hire people to do a multitude of different jobs, clerical, light, industrial welders, you name it. A little bit of everything. Lots of manufacturing support.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: So what did you learn in that kind of phase of your career that you're [00:05:00] currently using?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I learned everything. It was very sink or swim, to be honest. There was, it's such a fast pace. I mean, this was the early two thousands, you know, so it's, it was such a fast pace. There were so many jobs to be had at that time and learning how to succinctly interview people and. Just the repetition of onboarding and all it takes to, you know, manage work comp and manage employee relations issues and manage.

What do you do when your employees that you've hired don't show up to your client for work? So, tons of customer service. I learned so much in those years that I did that, and a lot of times people reach out and say, you know, how do I get into hr? It's really hard, you know, I have a degree in hr, but I don't have experience.

What do I do? I always say if there's an opportunity to do staffing not that it doesn't, you know, of course you'd like to have some experience when you go into that. I was really green. But it's such a great learning ground because you deal with everything. [00:06:00] You don't just specialize in one area.

You're not a generalist. I mean, sorry, you are a generalist.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. Yeah. 'cause I, one of my, my favorite clients staff Works, which is a smaller staffing agency here in Toronto. And, and, you know, it's, it, it, some of what you've said really reminds me. Me of what, what the owner, Sandra always says she's a former guest as well. Just, you know, the, the customer service aspect, the, the quick piece.

Agility that's required. I used to partner with agencies with Manpower and so on a really long time ago, early in my career as an in-house person managing talent acquisition. Right. And, and so, you know, being the customer side was, was interesting too. And, but we did some neat stuff together when we partnered up to, to process because we were hiring like hundreds of people in inside a month for these peak periods.

So yeah, it's

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: yes. Some of the projects, I mean, you know, hiring a thousand people in four weeks, you think there's no way I can do this. But you, you partner with others and somehow you get it done with not a lot of [00:07:00] sleep, you know.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: It's quite, it's quite crazy, right? What can be accomplished? Okay, so you, so you got into staffing, you learned a ton, and then what happened?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: Then one of the, one of the clients that I supported on site called me one day and said, Hey, I'm gonna move to a different location and I really think that you should come here to this site and do hr. And I said, oh gosh, I, you know, I think I want to do that long term, but I'm still having fun doing the staffing.

But you know what I. This is a really good opportunity for me to maybe pivot and get into HR full-time. And that really started my foray. And, you know, I worked for Fortune 500 for a couple years in manufacturing handling HR as the, you know, sole person on site. And I haven't looked back from there.

I.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Beautiful. Awesome. Okay, so what is it you do today at Wolverine, you and your team?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: Yeah, so as the Chief HR officer, we are a relatively lean company, and so I don't just do hr, of course, that's my specialty. But you know, I have a small HR team that, that helps, you know. You know, provide our [00:08:00] department direction, but I also oversee, you know, accounting and finance and the IT group and the facilities group and the administrative group.

But really, you know, at the end of the day my heart is in HR and, and that's the area that I really lead and have expertise in. And so I always kind of describe it like our HR department is really in the business of supporting employees from onboarding to retirement. It's our responsibility to do everything we can to make Wolverine a good place.

You know, a great place to work.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: It's that whole employee experience the journey as they, you know, from how we attract them all the way to when they exit. Okay. So what does Wolverine Power do? So there are about 180 employees, I think you had said

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: mm-Hmm. Correct.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: And so you've got, you know, sort of, it sounds like very nimble environment.

'cause a lot of you wearing multiple hats like yourself. So, so what are, what are they doing?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: So this is the part that I love the most is telling the cooperative story. And so rural electric cooperatives came to be in the United States, you know, in the, in the early to [00:09:00] to mid 1930s whenever it maybe didn't make sense for a larger investor owned utility to build electric lines out to you know, rural members or farmers.

And, and hook up electricity to those farms and those homes. And so, you know, folks banded together and created, you know, kind of the concept of, of rural electricity and rural electric cooperatives. And at the end of the day, that is what we do as an electric co-op. We provide power to rural America and folks that are not in, you know.

Super densely populated areas, and specifically Wolverine is a generation and transmission cooperative. So we have power plants and we transmit power to our distribution members that then take it to their members' homes. And so it's a fantastic and noble business model that we've been, you know, carrying on for 80 plus years.

And I'm incredibly passionate about it as are, as are the other Wolverine employees.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah, that's so interesting. So, as you know, I'm in Canada, so [00:10:00] we, you know, in, in Ontario's very populous province, we have Ontario Hydro, it's called here. So harnessing the power of the Niagara River in the falls. And, and you know, there's other parts to the grid of course, but it's just interesting to hear about these rural electrical cooperatives.

So it's new to me. So you're out of Cadillac? Michigan. Michigan, which is, yeah. Where is that anyways? Is it, it is just a, I think I passed through it on my way to Grand Rapids

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: You do pass through it on your way to Grand Rapids? Yeah, we're about, yeah, we're about 90 minutes from Grand Rapids, so we're, we're north of there. Yeah, it's a beautiful part of the state that we get to live

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: I have, I have family in Michigan. That's awesome. Alright. Yeah. Yeah. So, so your career's been kind of varied. You've done a whole bunch of different things and now you're, you're, you're really sort of, it's all coalescing around the CHRO role, but you're also leading these other functions which.

Kind of interesting. So something that I also find unique about, about you, not as unique as it maybe was 10 years ago. But you have a background in coaching same [00:11:00] as me. So tell me about how that came to be.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: So years ago, this is the second electric cooperative that I've worked at. And in my first electric cooperative, I actually had the opportunity to have a coach. It was kind of an accountability coach at the time. This was probably 2015. And she really helped me kind of get outta my head and get outta my own way with a couple of projects that I was struggling with and sort of who do I wanna be in this next, you know, chapter of my career.

And it was really powerful for me, and I always had this thought in the back of my mind, like, I think I could do this. I, I think I would be good at this. You know, I, I have an interest in it, you know. And then I got another coach when I was when I came here to Wolverine, and she was incredibly powerful and I really, I honestly, that's what I spent a lot of my sessions with her talking about was.

Do you think I wanna be a coach? Do I think I wanna be a coach? And her saying things like, you just need to ask. You need to learn how to ask really powerful questions. And I'm like, oh, I want a stronger framework than that. You know? I really would like a strong [00:12:00] toolkit that I can rely on to kind of, I.

Utilize this with employee relations issues. And so, COVID happened and we all know, you know, how that was for HR folks. It was a difficult time and I was really siloed at home by myself, hunkering down, and I thought that would be a good time for me to maybe I. You know, figure out, okay, do I wanna do this coaching thing?

So I jumped into a program. It was super transformative. It was a lot of work and, you know, became certified, you know what, in 2022. And I haven't looked back since. It's been fantastic.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: I love that. Well, I wanna acknowledge that you did that and you didn't just, you know, stay hunkered down and, and bored and you know, actually. He, he used it as an opportunity to, to, to try this out and to learn. You know, that's interesting 'cause Covid was a huge. Year, just that 20, 20 years I lost my dad and everything.

But through that whole period, just incredibly transformative [00:13:00] from, in terms of learning opportunities. 'cause, you know, you had a little more time and space and there was just this generosity of sharing during that period. And, and I really enjoyed that, right? It was a chance to go deeper on, on certain topics and, and things.

So, so. With your coaching accreditation now, so here you're running the show for an HR team and other teams. How does it show up in your day to day?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: First of all, I'm sorry to hear that you lost your dad. I'm also in that club. But coaching, so I thought for a long time that I was coaching employees by prescribing solutions to them. So they would come to my office and say, I'm really struggling with my supervisor or this coworker is, you know, really getting under my skin, or, you know.

Whatever the issue at hand was. And I would find myself for years, you know, prescribing solutions to them. And then sometimes they would stick and sometimes they would come back and we would talk about the same thing again and again. And I discovered that I was, I. Doing just that, prescribing solutions to people and [00:14:00] not helping them come to, you know, their own realization to whatever the root cause of the issue really was.

And so once I was able to sort of temper this was probably the most challenging part of going through coach training is tempering all the advice that you want to give people. You know, all those years of experience you have, helping people through employee relations issues and really just getting quiet.

Asking questions and letting them come to their own sort of understanding of what the root issue really is has been unbelievable and super powerful and that shows up every day in every conversation that I have with someone now, it's almost like it, once you go through that training, you can't, you can't look at things through that framework.

You can't not look at things through that new framework. And

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah. You see things differently. Yeah, for sure. And I wanna, I wanna talk in a second about some specific examples that you, you told me about before where you've applied more. That coach-like approach [00:15:00] at work. But something when, when we first met, we were kind of giggling about was that initial training and yeah, I know you're so, so listeners you can't see, but Casey's covering her eyes.

I'm going, oh my God. And I have sort of a similar, similar reaction. Tell, tell us, you know, what, what was sort of that, oh my god, what's going on? The reaction all about.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: Yeah. You know, in the beginning of, you know, this specific training that I did, it was very much you. Everything is neutral, right? You cannot impart sort of, and they teach you this for a reason, right? It's so you don't always retreat back to giving advice, right? But you can't impart sort of your own lens.

You can't get in the sandbox with your client, so to speak. And trying to not do that with you know, especially as an internal coach, I couldn't wrap my mind around. I just want to help them. I just want to tell them, try this or try that. And that was really, really difficult for me in the beginning. [00:16:00] And you know, of course they tell you to trust the process and we get that it's hard and you know, you'll figure it out in the end and you do right.

You, you figure it out in the end. You practice enough that you get comfortable with it. But it was a big transformation. It was a big mindset shift.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah, and me too. I had the same, the same experience and funny like, you know, I had done a certifications probably almost 20 years ago through Ken Companies to teach. You know, learn lean leaders within my organization, coaching skills. And so, you know, when I was this performance consultant and business partner, and I left teams and been doing this for a long time at the time, and I got it, like, I remember the woman who wrote the book, Linda Miller.

She's like, yep, you got it. You're we're good. You could do it. But still, I just, I, I, I am. It boggles my mind that in spite of having that train, that certification teaching others, I know that I still defaulted to the advice monsters. Michael Bunge, then he calls it, right? Like, you know, more often than not.

And so in my, it [00:17:00] was my very first day even at Adler, where I, I, we had to practice coach people and I was like. I don't even know where to go with this. What question do I ask? I was just completely macked. It was so funny. And then there's an evolution over time where you learn, you know, somebody really is stuck and they're just not generating options or choices for themselves.

You can, you.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: seeds. Yes,

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: mission based is saying, you know, may I offer you a suggestion or an example and there's no attachment kind of thing. But it's making sure they know there's no, this is not me guiding you to this. Right. So, but that's sort of like, there's an evolution of skill as you move through the, both the training and then the practice.

That's why it's called a practice. 'cause you're never really done

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: That's right. Just like you, I would be practicing medicine had I gone that route, I'm practicing this. That's so true.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: And, and it spills over into your personal life too. I mean, you can't separate the two. Right. So I find myself in interactions with people I know and love, you know, outside of work. And I'm like, okay, don't.

[00:18:00] Do you want advice, Casey, or do you want Coach Casey?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah, but what a great way to put it out there, right? Because there is a place for advice from time, you know? And, and usually it's not as often as we might think though, right? So it is moving at that default and, and finding that. Space that neutrality that you mentioned. Right. And I love the phrase that this came up a lot in my training and I've actually been using it in my work as a team coach with, with leadership groups, this idea of you know, you're dancing in the moment, so responding in the moment while still observing from the balcony. So it is com complex, ki you know, initially complex, kind of dual mindset that's happening. And, but I think that it's so helpful for people to, to be able to sort of have that visual 'cause then it's like, oh yeah, like I still, you know, I'm responding in a very present, neutral way and asking the questions.

I do still need to be sort of globally above the clouds thinking. [00:19:00] What does Casey really need here? What's, what's really going on? What's the body language saying? What's, you know? Mm-Hmm.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: That's so true because I feel like one of the best things that we can offer as coaches, and one of the best things I, a gift I can give to people is incredible presence, right? So if I'm in a coaching session with someone, you know, a formal session. There is nothing else more important to me than that, but you're so right.

There's always an overarching theme of which path would be helpful to go down next to really get to what the, the root issue is. So I like the way you described that. That's great.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah, well 'cause it's often people are saying things, but it's not. The root of the matter yet, and you can kind of, there's something about how they say it, that they pick it up. Like I, I, I know you know, you were talking about how, how powerful it was to have a coach yourself. And I almost always have a coach, to be honest with you.

And I, that's part of the thing I find so interesting. 'cause it's, it's this, it's hard work, but as you're even talking and saying things out loud, you start to go, [00:20:00] oh, wait a second. Well, this isn't really what's bugging me. You know what it is. It's this. So it's,

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: Well that and so true, and that's the power of silence. Which works well in interviews. It works well in coaching sessions, right? Just let the people talk and eventually it will come.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah, it's true. Well, and so, you know, there is this need I find as an external coach, right, working with leaders, not, not, not all. Leaders like, well, I, I would say the majority of HR talent folks that I know, there is a good kind of understanding of, of coaching in general. That said, many people, even if they think they understand it, don't really understand it.

Okay. So they, they understand that it's powerful because it is inquiry based and there's, there's you know, that presence, that space for reflection and, and, and becoming more resourceful and so on. I don't, I don't think there's always an appreciation even amongst people in, in what, in our discipline of HR and talent that they actually get.

[00:21:00] Just how little advice there is. Like there's just, it is none. It's, it's the odd suggestion or something for, to give food for thought. What are your thoughts on that?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I think it's. 100% spot on. So I also do coaching outside of work you know, through my own you know, business that I set up, which I, I love and I find I take a lot of joy in that. And you are spot on that people reach out for coaching, but what they really want is, you know, what I call coach consulting, right?

They want consulting and they also want coaching. And so a lot of it morphs into. Can you play this scenario out with me? You know, I'm gonna have a high stakes conversation with my CEO and I wanna know, you know, how I should approach this. And there, I, I don't, I'm not sure that people truly understand kind of coaching at the core.

And I sort of meet those challenges with, As long as we understand what the goal of this, you know, assignment is, you [00:22:00] know, between us, if you want some advice and you specifically ask me for it, you know, given my HR experience, I am glad to share. But that's your advice to take and do with what you will.

Right? But we still need to get to the root of why you're even asking the question to begin with. So. Yes, there is a big, I think, misconception about what coaching actually is, and a lot of it turns into, can you help me answer this question that I have about this weird career situation?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah, it's fascinating. Well, so let's kind of turn our, our attention to the impact that your love of coaching and your, your, your embracing of it ha has made for you in the workplace.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: Yeah. So one of. One that really stands out to me is, you know, in HR you get a lot of calls from employees or drop-ins from employees who you know, might, might be upset about something and rightfully so, you know, depending on the conversation or, you know, the topic at [00:23:00] hand. One really sticks out to me and that not long after I finished my certification, I had an employee that called and said, I am really upset about, you know, this certain topic.

I don't know who to talk to. I'm so upset that I don't know that I wanna work here anymore. And I said, okay, let's, first of all, thanks for calling. I'm glad you were comfortable enough to reach out to me. Let's talk through the situation. Tell me what's going on, you know, and the individual explained what was happening and, I went into coach mode immediately. I had, I was very well aware of the situation. I knew exactly what this individual was talking about. I knew the reasons why we did what we did. I had all of that intel, but that was the last thing that would've helped that conversation. And so I immediately went into acknowledge and validate.

One of the first things, you know, I learned through my coaching courses and. When I looked down, you know, at the phone, when we hung up and we got to a really good place, [00:24:00] I, it was 54 minutes. And for 54 minutes I did nothing but acknowledge what the individual was saying and validate those feelings.

And at the end of that call this person said to me, I don't know what I wanted when I reached out to you, but what I know is that I feel so heard and so seen. I. I didn't do anything but listen and acknowledge and validate, and that to me cemented why I had done this incredibly intensive coach training.

And I will tell you that I think that conversation retained this employee and it's, you know, it. It's not, it wasn't me that retained this employee. It was this tool that I was taught that humans want to feel heard and seen. And it was so powerful to me, and I'll never forget it. And to this day, you know, we still talk about it and the person is still thankful because [00:25:00] they stayed and they're really happy in a job that they have now.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Such a powerful example, right? Of, of there was, there was nothing you needed to tell them or tools you needed to give them. It was. An it was space. It was space and grace to say what they needed to say and kind of pro process out loud. Really, really interesting. I appreciate you sharing that example.

So something else that, that you've been doing at Wolverine that I think is really interesting is, is helping to facilitate. Discussions around mental health, which is really, really important. The world's very heavy. Today we're recording at the end of November, 2023, and, you know, there's not one, there's two wars and other conflicts around the world and, and, and some really nasty stuff happening.

Right. Discrimination and violence and, and around the world as a result. So, you know, tell us about what you've been putting into place to, to support Wolverine employees around mental health.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I really noticed during [00:26:00] Covid, a lot of reach outs from employees saying, I am struggling. And I really took it to heart and I am so proud of our CEO. He really kicked this off and I don't even know that he, he knew he was doing it, but, he struggled, like all of us during Covid, right? And he, he came out with a blog post that really detailed how a forced slowdown through the pandemic made him confront some things that he hadn't previously.

You know, no more travel off the road siloed in your office at home by yourself. There's a lot of things that come up that you maybe didn't have time to dig into before. And he simply finished that article by saying how grateful he was for skilled and compassionate counselors that can help us all through tough issues.

And I thought, this is it. This is my minute, this is my moment to capitalize on this for our entire workforce. Because if someone this well-respected who has been at the company for a long time, that is an incredibly competent, just. Well thought of businessman can say this [00:27:00] publicly to our employee group.

I am going, I'm gonna capitalize on this moment. And so we did. We took an opportunity to devote, we do a you know, a monthly safety newsletter. We took the opportunity to devote an entire article to mental health. During the month of May, you know, you know, mental Health Awareness Month, and I had two employees that were willing to come forward and talk about their journey with mental health.

So they were very open and very willing to author articles on this, and they got a ton of feedback from people saying, thank you so much for sharing. I, I don't feel so alone. And we, from there, we took it to sort of an in-person discussion with our group and. Had kind of a, a moderated discussion where we talked about some practices that these individuals utilized to kind of protect their mental health and wellness.

We talked about, you know, some of the challenges they faced during the pandemic related to the stress of being a working parent and dealing with all of that. We talked about what were some things that were [00:28:00] helpful for them when they were struggling with mental health challenges. You know, what did people say to you that was helpful or what support did you get that was really helpful and how could, how can you explain that to this group that cares about their coworkers?

You know, give them some tools that they can utilize. And then, you know, I also we talked about, what programs and benefits and services do we have in place currently as an employer that you have utilized that have been helpful to you? And it really kinda blew the doors open for people feeling a little more comfortable to talk about that.

I mean, a lot of it was one-on-one, you know, feedback directly to those individuals that shared, you know, some of it was, you know, behind closed doors. But I think at least I hope that people feel like. It is okay. And it is normal to talk about this, and it is not something that they have to suffer in silence with.

We have tools and resources and we want people to, to be able to use them. So, you know, I really took the [00:29:00] opportunity and our group really took the opportunity to say, we are, we are going to talk about this and we continue to talk about it.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah, I think there's there's a lot of goodness there for, for listeners to think about, you know, if you're, you wanna do something similar. So, in terms of when you talk about moderate. Moderated discussions. What, what were the sizes of the groups and like how, how much design or preparation went into this?

Like what, how formal or informal, I guess is my question?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: So, I had a couple of people, you know, that I reached out to that had shared with me previously, you know, that they had some challenges that they had worked through. And as we started having, you know, these conversations, I worked with them to just say, would, would you be comfortable talking about this on a stage in front of your coworkers?

And resounding, absolutely. I am so happy to talk about it. And I really kind of let them set the agenda. I mean, I said I want you to share whatever you're comfortable with. I, I will not, I'm not gonna push you to share certain topics, but I mean, [00:30:00] talk about, talk about. Putting themselves in a vulnerable place to be an ally to their coworkers to say, listen, you know, I was at a point where I, I thought, you know, I might need medication.

You know, I was struggling and I didn't know what to do, and I didn't know where to turn to. And these are some tools that I used to help me, you know, get in front of my doctor and know what kind of questions to ask my doctor and know that I just needed to reach out. I couldn't solve this. On my own. And so I, you know, they really drove kind of that conversation, I'll tell you there.

There really was not a dry eye in the room afterwards. Just seeing, you know, the care and concern that other people have for, for them and their journey. And I think the recognition of their coworkers to, you know, understand how vulnerable it was for them to share. You know, some of these. Things that people just don't talk about.

Right? A lot of people suffer in silence and you know, the group was at [00:31:00] 50, 60 people probably that they were talking to at that point.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: So is this something that you're sustaining, like it's an ongoing program or?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: We haven't done another moderated discussion around it, but we sort of pick themes that we wanna work on throughout the year. So that was sort of our, our theme last year. And we, you know, did the articles, our CEO did the blog post about it. We did the moderated discussion about it, and then we sort of morphed this year into the financial wellness, health and wellness side because.

Obviously that causes a lot of concern and stress for folks as well. So kind of talking about, okay, what does that look like and how, what resources do we have in place that you could utilize for all the stress that that creates? And so, it's not something that we'll stop talking about. We're just gonna continue, like coming at it from a holistic approach.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Keep taking different angles. Right. You know, and certain ones will resonate more than others with people depending on where they're at. Yeah. The financial wellness, that's interesting that you. That up, you know, in this [00:32:00] period of high interest rates and, and, you know, a lot of uncertainty in the markets and so on.

Well, we're, we're coming near the end of our, our time, but I did have another question that I wanted to, to get you talking a little bit about, which is the fact that you're the lone female in the c-suite at Wolverine. And, and what's that experience been like for you?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I, I am the lone female and I will say it has been. Empowering. It's been transformative and it's been challenging. Sometimes I'm working on things and I'm supporting leaders who have really deep technical knowledge in certain areas that I don't have. But I always, I. Feel that I can bring something to the table.

So whether that's clarifying questions, going back to my coaching hat, whether that's long-term thinking, whether that's the impact that it will have on our people, de de depending on, you know, what our strategic vision is for the future, or what are some alternative ways to, to think about this or to solve problems.

Sometimes when you don't have [00:33:00] that deep technical knowledge, you can ask questions that make people go, oh, I never thought about people not understanding this part. Well, as the non-technical one in the room, I can, I can help flesh out some of those things. But I have had incredible support from my fellow c-suite male counterparts, and I have honestly loved it.

I have loved the challenge. I.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: So what has been. The most challenging for you personally about it though? Like what's, or, or something that you've noticed that's different that you've had to sort of navigate?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I, our business itself, utility industry is. Is deeply technical right there. Our CEO's an electrical engineer. If we've got people that have, you know, strong backgrounds in power supply, we've got, you know, a legal expert on the team and just. Ensuring that I can stay up to date with everything that's changing in our industry, and at least having a strong baseline understanding of [00:34:00] how, you know, legislation and regulatory affairs are gonna affect our future depending, you know, on what, you know, certain administrations are gonna do.

That has been a challenge, but it's been a welcome challenge. And I would say that's kind of the, the biggest hurdle that I've had to kind of climb over is just making sure that I. I can stay abreast and I can stay up to date on what really affects our industry. I've been so focused on the people for so long that it's been a bit of a, a mindset shift, but thankfully I have a fantastic group in, in the HR space that that helps carry out all the other duties that I don't have the opportunity to do anymore.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Well, and, and being, you know, back to sort of this, this being lone female and, and, and what's that like, what do you think is the, the key strength you bring as a, as a woman to, to this group? Like, what is this sort of piece that they might appreciate that was, was not there before?

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I know the answer to this because we ask [00:35:00] these questions of each other and I get a lot of my stable and calm presence. My ability to not be rattled is really helpful to that team. And I hear that a lot from my CEO and my peers have shared that with me as well.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: Yeah, it's interesting 'cause part of me sort of like, like listening to that, you know, and, and, and, and that's how I experience you as well, is this, this very calm, you know, articulate, stable person. And that's not necessarily. A, a female male thing. I mean, you could find that in male counterparts too.

So it's not necessarily a, a female energy from what I'm hearing. They're really appreciating you for you

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I hope so. Yeah,

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: is Right. What I take from that right there wrongly.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate2: I think so. I feel appreciated. It's a great group. I love working with them.

Kacy Wickenhauser GMT20231129-201433_Recording_separate1: That's wonderful. Good place to be. I'm delighted for you and for them. Well, thank you so much, Casey. This has been a really great conversation.

We, we cover quite a few things and, and I appreciate you sharing some very specific examples and a bit about your experience with us. [00:36:00] Yeah, thank you.