Tarot and Story with Soul Aspirant Roslyn Lehman, Part 1

Join us as returning guest Tarot reader Rosalind Lehman brings her unique blend of anthropology and linguistics to the table, revealing how even fleeting encounters with animals can carry significant spiritual messages.  This episode will challenge you to rethink the balance between material and spiritual realms, offering insights into themes of spiritual growth, material loss, and the importance of personal introspection. Whether it's through emotionally withdrawing to achieve self-realization or embracing minimalism for spiritual richness, this thought-provoking discussion sheds light on how Tarot readings can help navigate life's complexities and enrich personal growth.

To learn more about Roslyn's Tarot practice or request a reading, email her at Tarotreetarot333@gmail.com

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Transcript

Tarot Reading and Modern Practices

Speaker 1 0:45

Hello and thanks for tuning in. I want to give everybody a quick heads up. Today's episode is the first and a two-parter. We're having a guest on whom we've had on before. We're very excited and she's going to do a Tarot reading. So there's so much nuance in the reading that I decided to chop it up into two episodes. It'll be worth it if you get a chance to listen to both. Okay, so this is the first of two with Tarot reader Rosalind Lehman. Enjoy, hi guys, and welcome to Language of the Soul podcast, where life is story. We're very excited about today's guest for a variety of reasons. She's a repeat customer, I've had her on before and she's a very dear friend. Before I tell you about her, I'm going to invite Virginia, our extraordinary producer, into the room. The shroom lady this week.

Speaker 2 1:49

Yes, psychedelic shroom lady this week. Uh, yes, psychedelic shroom lady, and is there?

Speaker 1 1:53

any other type of shroom really?

Speaker 2 1:55

well, well, there's a lot, yeah, but my nails literally are neon and okay, so here's. Here's a funny story, before I get into all of our other stuff, just because you know you might get a crack with this. So I had my nails done yesterday, obviously put mushrooms back on them. They're neon colors because, you know, warmer weather, and when my nail technician was putting on um the top coat, she's like, oh, I put a special top coat on this time. I said, oh, okay, so I'm sleeping last night. I wake up about 3 am in the morning, so you know twilight hours and literally witching hour yeah, the witching hour.

Speaker 2 2:33

And like literally like open my eyes you know you're not totally awake to like flip over to my other side and I see these five glowing teeth looking at me do teeth look, though did the teeth have eyeballs? No, but you know, I'm looking at like five, five glowing teeth and I realized it's my hand and it's my, because I have pointed fingernails. It's my freaking fingernails. They glow in the dark that is awesome.

Speaker 1 2:59

Oh, you didn't. They didn't tell you that. No, you should be emotionally prepared for that.

Speaker 2 3:03

They should have told you so, yes, my dentition surprised me with glow-in-the-dark neon nails, that is awesome.

Speaker 1 3:10

You know, you're bringing me back to my childhood. My, my brother and I had I don't know if you guys remember that 50s paneling, but it held on till the 70s, right, because paneling is usually 20 years old, right? Yeah, so we had the wooden paneling with the little knots. You could see the pine knots in it.

Speaker 3 3:27

Anyone, anyone yeah, yeah, I remember this it's actually in my current.

Speaker 1 3:31

This thing was built in the 50s my current apartment so it has a lot of vintage tiles and it actually has that on the cabinetry. But anyway, when it was dark we were convinced they were eyeballs. I mean, that's how we fell asleep every night, surrounded by eyeballs. They're watching you right explains a lot, doesn't it it?

Speaker 2 3:49

does so, so with with no further ado.

Speaker 1 3:52

I guess repeat listeners will remember. Rosalind came on initially because I, you know this is all about story and it's such a far-reaching topic that are in the spirit of my book I was hoping to illustrate through repetition. You know that story is very pervasive and it's as we say every week, right, life is story. So we've had epigenetics researcher on a Harvard literature professor, of course, master storytellers in the arts and entertainment, the literary realm, but I thought of Rosalind initially because of her anthropology background. So of course that's just chock full of a story as human history.

Speaker 1 4:33

But our last podcast, we pretty much went everywhere right, in a good way. I think we went on a lot of tangents, but that's where the magic was. In any case, I want to let the listeners know Rosalind's full bio will be in the episode description. But in the interest of time, because I've been's full bio will be in the episode description. But in the interest of time, because I've been told the reading will be quite nuanced and there's a lot to unpack, I want to save time for that. So for now, just know Rosalind is a very cool human being, we like her a lot and her background is mainly in anthropology with an emphasis in linguistics. But, man, the resume is very impressive. She's worked for, I don't know, the Dalai Lama, mother Teresa's Sisters of Mercy, and most recently she has begun a practice in tarot reading, and that's kind of what we're going to focus on today. Welcome.

Speaker 3 5:27

Hello.

Speaker 1 5:28

Hi Hi How's it going?

Speaker 3 5:31

Oh, good, good yeah.

Speaker 1 5:38

You're in what town?

Speaker 3 5:40

I am in McKinleyville. It's in Humboldt County in Northern California. It's about an hour and a half from Oregon.

Speaker 1 5:49

You know I have a mental block. I get Markleyville and McKinleyville mixed up. Did Sherry live in McKinleyville at one point?

Speaker 3 5:57

She lived in Arcata, which is south of McKinleyville.

Speaker 1 6:00

I feel like we traipsed around that whole area.

Speaker 3 6:03

Yeah, for like a year. I think she got her teaching credential up here, okay.

Speaker 1 6:07

Yeah, sherry is the mother of the godchild that I I mentioned earlier. Well, anyway, you said earlier it's so beautiful up here, I hope it's beautiful in southern california and just so you know the may. You know that may gray june gloom thing yeah how, like the marine layer doesn't really burn off until noon or one Sundays. That's been every day here.

Speaker 3 6:31

Whoa yeah, that's amazing. That's actually a good thing for you guys, I think.

Speaker 1 6:36

Well it is Now. Sometimes it gets kind of humid when it doesn't burn off, but actually it's just stayed cool and if you watch the news, it's the hottest year on record. Pretty much everywhere except LA it's been very cool. But it's a little ominous too, because then of course, later the shit's going to hit the fan and we'll get the heat waves. They they're coming later and later every year, you know.

Speaker 3 6:57

Oh, yeah, yeah Um, and I live right by the ocean so I get the fog gloom like almost all the time. Yeah, um, but it usually burns off in the summer.

Speaker 1 7:08

Yep, Well, that's a whole other episode, right? Climate change and how? If you didn't believe in it before, you do now right. It couldn't be more obvious.

Speaker 3 7:16

Oh, my gosh On so many. Yeah, I won't even start that conversation. There's so much to talk about.

Speaker 1 7:23

It's true, and we talked a little bit earlier today too about today's news, and so I'm going to save that. But I do think, in the spirit of Tarot right, everything's interconnected. So I think it's been kind of fascinating how the energies seem to be aligned. So I think we're going to be talking about current events and maybe the news a little bit later, but to get started, I want to for the listeners. You know, rosalind's actually going to do a reading for me which I'm very invested in and very excited about, but before we do that, I want to hear about true practice a little bit.

Speaker 1 7:55

I'd love for you to start real general and just give us what I'm calling the Reader's Digest version, or Tarot for Dummies. I really know very little. Virginia knows definitely more than I do, and as much as I explore different wisdom, traditions and philosophic traditions, I dip a toe in all of it. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to tarot, so do you mind explaining to us the history, the tradition and then how that translates into modern practices, like the readings you might do?

Speaker 3 8:25

It's a divination tool for insights, for people to kind of see what energies are around them or maybe they have a big question or the next move to make, maybe in their life. It's guidance and it's in the form of a story. Yeah, it's a, a deck of cards, really it's a with 78 different cards and 22 of them are the major arcana which hold all these symbols from many traditions and and uh. The rest are suits and um, with different uh numbers have meanings with them, and then the symbolism on it, yeah, and then the history this just has. Like there's. Nobody can really take ownership of the history, because it has such a rich history and supposedly it originated in the mid 15th century in Europe. It was initially used as a card game called Tarocchi, where people would make poems with the different symbolism, and it wasn't really until the 18th century that it started becoming popular again and used as divination in Europe and America. Really, it became popular during that time.

Speaker 1 10:01

Yeah, when we were talking earlier about how it. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sort of became popularized around the turn of the century, Maybe when mentalism took off. But I was going to ask exactly that, Like where in Europe, in America, where was it popular?

Speaker 3 10:19

It became popular in parts of Europe and mostly America during that time. Interesting, yeah, from my understanding. And again, nobody can really. It's really mysterious, nobody can really claim like we started it or when it actually became a divination tool, but I think mostly that you used because in a way I think you hinted that it's not necessarily redicting, or yeah, it's not necessarily a fortune telling tool.

Speaker 1 10:59

That's the word. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 11:01

Yeah, and just on a little note, I guess there's a movie out called Tarot and it's like a horror movie. Right now, and it's definitely not like that right now. So there's no bludgeoning or ex-murdering or anything like that no, not that I know of in any history of tarot or not in my practice I know.

Speaker 2 11:22

For me, I've always known. It's like a lot of people who you know because it's something that I want to to learn more about, but I haven't had the time to really dive into it and understand, because there are the 78 cards and you have to understand them. But that's pretty intuitive too. You use a lot of your own intuition when looking at the cards Absolutely Agreed Mostly.

Speaker 1 11:44

Yeah. So I guess it might be a good time for you to tell us exactly how a reading goes down, and I know you said it differs from I keep wanting to say practitioner from reader to reader. I know their approach might be quite different but in general, yes, isn't a big part of it what you bring to the table as a reader, In other words, the cards traditionally seem to mean something, but you also take it further as a reader. Is that right, Using your intuition, as Virginia hinted at?

Speaker 3 12:11

Correct Absolutely and um also to help heighten my intuition before a reading um I'll prepare myself and um meditate and ground and um you know, do positive thoughts and that kind of stuff, use essential oils and yeah.

Speaker 1 12:40

And I'm calling that alignment. You sort of align before you do a reading. Is that a good word?

Speaker 3 12:45

Yeah, align with source.

Speaker 1 12:48

That was my question. What are you aligning with? I mean, what does intuition tap into in your parlance?

Speaker 3 12:54

okay, and my word, I think it taps into my higher self. Um, I do just the energies and the elements around just bringing my best self forward and for a channel and to be open to what might kind of come through or things that come to mind to you know, do my best Right.

Speaker 1 13:21

Well, it seems like you want to be a vessel without projecting on it, right?

Speaker 3 13:25

You want to project, maybe, what universal wisdom has to say about the card absolutely that, yeah, definitely, and um, yeah, I'm still learning to discern all that um, because I think we're always projecting, really, you know yeah, it's almost no way around it, but I think the egoic mind does the projection right.

Speaker 1 13:49

And if you correct quiet, if you quiet mind and ego, then maybe you stand a better chance of not projecting right perhaps yes, correct for our listeners.

Speaker 1 13:59

she's going to do a reading for me which I'm very excited about and we tried not to go back and forth too much about it, um, but I'm excited to see what comes up. But I did ask the question, you know, like in the spirit of you being aligned at the moment of turning those cards over, right and then where I might be at energetically or vibrationally at that same moment. So I think it's been kind of interesting. Do you know what I mean? What's been on both of our radar throughout? And I guess I sort of mentioned like ooh, was there something dark? Like did you want to wait until the energies kind of shift? Because, was there something dark?

Animal Visitations and Symbolism

Speaker 1 14:38

And he said, no, I don't really use it that way, which you know, I assumed as much, but I guess it leads to the question like in so many philosophic traditions you can say that it's an interplay between fate or destiny in some way. But we also have the free will to change that fate or destiny. So if the card indicates, ooh, you're on a dark path I know you don't roll that way, but if something remotely ominous appears in the cards, is it sort of meant to say, hey, this is on the horizon. Energetically, you have the free will or the power to dovetail with the gods and self create and you know what I mean shift trajectories or even reverse that energy. Is that the role of it?

Speaker 3 15:21

when we say it's divination but it's not fortune, telling yes, yeah, it can be used that way definitely, and it's usually that something. All these cards came up and I knew like this woman was going through it and there's a lot of grief, and I actually like put my hand on my heart and tried to keep the tears back, you know. And the other cards kind of showed ways to support herself through it and that there's a light at the end of the tunnel and those kind of you know that it's going to pass, do you often?

Speaker 1 16:18

see how the cards complement one another. The ones that seemingly randomly appear right Do. They seem to always complement one another or work together.

Speaker 3 16:29

Most of the time. Yes, there's sometimes things that don't make sense to me as the reader, and maybe the current actually understands that I'm not, and I've done that before, so sometimes I just tell them what I'm seeing and that's why it seems so, because it's the contradiction is within themselves right and it well, and sometimes it'll mean something to them later, and maybe not in the moment.

Speaker 1 16:55

Is that true? Yes, that's definitely true yeah, our evidential psychic uh said a client, amnesia, sometimes it just doesn't ring true in the moment, and then a week later they'll say you know, I now I understand what you meant by that yeah clicks. So you said too that sometimes after doing a reading, you'll get visitations from animals in dreams yeah, actually quite often, and then I'll um add that to my emails, my emails.

Speaker 3 17:25

I do it all mostly via email, but I do do in-person readings and also I've done a lot of fundraising. I do pets too to raise funds for different organizations and that's been really fun and got a lot of great feedback. I will you know what's going on with the animal in your house and I have a lot of fun doing cat and dog readings well, I know how you feel about our furry friends.

Speaker 1 17:54

Do you remember that from our last episode, we were talking about how we need to revise our constitution?

Speaker 3 17:59

yes, yes, um, I was in esupio and it was an independent kind of sovereign place that's recognized by the united nations, but but it's in Lithuania. That's how I think we got started. But in their constitution it talks about how cats rule, you know, and it's written in the constitution.

Speaker 1 18:20

I don't remember that I love that.

Speaker 3 18:23

If you get a chance to look up the Usupio constitution. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. It's pretty funny and amazing.

Speaker 1 18:31

I will check it out. I do live in a little Lithuania I feel like that's probably the next thing I said in our last episode but also Freetown, christiana. They very much have their own thing going on and their own bylaws, and it's working.

Speaker 3 18:47

Yeah, exactly, it's like that kind of thing in lithuania.

Speaker 1 18:52

well, let's not repeat our former episode, but uh, that was a great conversation. I guess it's a good moment to say they still don't fully understand. So I know you do some readings remote. You do some in person, some are human, some are furrier and then you follow up right with a written account of the cards and they can do with it what they will. But what is the interaction like, like today when we do our reading? You've already flipped over the cards and I actually have them open on my monitor in front of me so I can look at them, Tell us, you know how it's going to go down. But but also, what is the interaction If I, if you, accept feedback from me, right? Does it compel the conversation further, or am I just listening? You said you're interested in feedback or something like that.

Speaker 3 19:40

Oh yeah, after the reading, definitely I like feedback and and um, usually I'll have a person, have a question in mind, maybe a question or a conundrum, but not to tell me until after. And then just to go back a bit about the animals in the dreams, I just have to say while I was doing your reading I had my door open. It's so nice. A bird came in my house, came across my kitchen floor and sat and stared at me on my window sill and just sat and hung out. So, wow, birds, it's a little chickadee.

Speaker 1 20:20

it was like a little chickadee bird I love that this was today or this was.

Speaker 3 20:24

This was today. I was working more on your reading and it just I'm. What is that? Because I knew my partner and my dog were out. What the heck? And it was a bird.

Speaker 1 20:33

Amazing. Well, you remember actually my mom's. It wasn't even the eulogy, it was just a tribute that I shared at the services. Remember the part about the turkey?

Speaker 3 20:44

Yes, I do.

Speaker 1 20:45

Yeah, I very much consulted you. I actually researched the particular tribe and Tehachapi and how they felt about wild turkeys. But it was pretty amazing, if you remember that turkey that just planted itself right in front of our car. Anyway, but just not to make it sensational, you and I kind of speak the same language. We've shared some pretty trippy experiences right that each of us has had and I've known you forever. So I think it's going to be hard not to project. I'm glad to tell you how something resonates with me when you do my reading. You know, and maybe it'll carry the conversation further, but you tell me when you're open to does that resonate or doesn't that? But I think what's just again, not to sensationalize, but you told me animals often visit after the reading. The day you told me you were gonna pick the cards or whatever, turn them over. I guess I don't know if I told you this, but I had a really vivid dream about animals, a lot of them. Oh, I didn't tell you that no, you didn't.

Speaker 1 21:50

No, I told sherry, I don't want to tell you the dream yet, but if animals visited you I know you said a bird literally visited you, but if you had any visitations from animals, I want to hear it first. And then I actually recorded me half asleep, my lip for an even moving. I recorded the dream while it was still vivid. I had just woken up out of it and I knew if I I didn't record it, they're fugitive, they go bye-bye. So I recorded it while groggy and I just think it'll be a trip, if it aligns at all with characters you ran into.

Speaker 3 22:18

Actually, with you I haven't had a dream one and I might have tonight, but with you I had the bird in my kitchen, which is really odd. And then, which is really odd, and then I went outside and did more work on the reading outside and uh, I don't know what kind of butterfly, like the big yellow ones with white stripes in the long. I don't know if it's, I don't know the type of butterfly, but it literally came and like nicked my the top of my head like nick. So those are the two symbolisms I think maybe you know you can look into more as butterfly and bird.

Speaker 1 22:56

Well, I think the obvious butterfly is often transformation, right.

Speaker 3 22:59

Yes.

Speaker 1 23:00

I think there's something more subtle than that In my vocabulary as a writer and an artist. I've resisted, you know, the the cliche trope of butterfly as transformation. I've used them in my work, as promise and one screenplay. It just became a symbol of, sometimes, rewards that seem to be withheld by the universe. But then there's a deluge, like the monarchs that visit Monterey.

Speaker 1 23:30

You know, in one of my screenplays this one couple was visiting Monterey trying to write re kindle that fire that first brought them together. Their marriage was in turmoil and they went back to this little beach house where they had their honeymoon and one of them secretly had was ready to file for divorce was this was a last ditch effort, and the other one was really ready to recommit but they weren't communicating. So they go just hoping to relive the magic and waiting for those monarchs to show up and they just wouldn't show up and they wouldn't show up. And then I use this image of after a really pivotal moment that was either a crisis or an opportunity. This deluge just floods the screen and I've never made the film but I would love to one day and it's just solid orange from the monarchs.

Speaker 3 24:19

So I think it just came to mean I don't know, delayed gratification, or that crown in heaven, that kind of reward, I guess crown in heaven that kind of reward I guess yeah, and I I have to say too, is the butterfly in its cocoon has to eat itself the liquid that the caterpillar turns into, well, before it turns into a, but it literally has to turn into liquid, and then the butterfly literally eats the caterpillar, the old liquid from the caterpillar, to survive, Well you know, you basically eat your old self, right?

Speaker 1 24:54

Yeah, I mean, that's the archetype of you have to die to the self to be reborn. Yeah, it's Christ, right. Our resurrection happens after we die. It's the death of mind and ego, right. And absolutely.

Speaker 3 25:08

And when I go more through your reading it's yeah, the ego death. Um things come up a lot.

Speaker 1 25:16

Okay, well, anyway, I have the recording. Not again, I don't want to make it sensational, but it's not for novelty, it's because I just think it will be an interesting exercise to see if there's any alignment at all or any illustration of the interconnectivity that you and I subscribe to. And so, after the reading, maybe I'll play the clip where I'm groggy and half asleep because the words I choose in that moment are more significant than anything. If not, I'll just recount it to you.

Speaker 3 25:43

I would not say that by any means I'm psychic, by any means. Just to clarify, Right.

Speaker 1 25:50

No, but I'm saying if we received similar images. It speaks to some kind of interconnectivity or at least being on the same wavelength. Right there's a lot of words. Yeah, absolutely, and that we're multidimensional, and yeah all of it and that we have access to that collective unconscious maybe.

Speaker 3 26:08

Absolutely Just, that Just that yeah, just that.

Speaker 1 26:12

Okay. So tell us, what does a reading look like? How does it go down, if you don't mind, or at least in your practice?

Speaker 3 26:19

Okay. So in my practice, depending on the person and their needs, I'll do what you call a spread so these can look differently. There's many kinds of spreads. That means how you lay out the card so you can have. The traditional type of spread is like a cross shape. I'll give yours as an example. I did a mandala and so I use nine cards for that and um, I also use some oracle cards which are a little bit different than tarot cards.

Journey Through Tarot Archetypes

Speaker 3 26:57

Tarot cards are oracle cards. They are used for divination, but they're really a story, and that's the difference, whereas the oracle kind of gives you little insights just for the present moment. So I'll start. I'll do oracle cards that represent the east and kind of that energy I call in, um. I use oracle cards with, um, some energies of hebrew letters to bring in like my ancestors and um. Then I'll do one to the West, which is more um, energy of like shamanic kind of energy or more traditions of, uh, indigenous West Western kind of styles, um, and then I'll lay down the cards and I'll interpret them and I can. I use-layers, so it does. You know, that's why I usually type it out and because it can take a long time and also people can reflect back on it, because time is weird in those realms, right doesn't? Things don't happen like immediately per se, or you know. Um, I wanted to talk about tarot as a story a little bit so people could understand, of course.

Speaker 3 28:15

So the major arcana are the cards are saying they have all the symbolism and stuff on them. The major arcana go from 1 to 22 and the first card is a card. It's called the fool and it's the number zero, and so the number zero is a card. It's called the Fool and it's the number zero, and so the number zero is there's nothing in everything the potential, you know, it's a potential right, and so this represents really ourselves and our beginning of our journey, and those fools are about to step off this cliff and just go for it, and so it's like innocence and and it's about to start the adventure. And then, on this, the fool's adventure, the first person they meet is a magician, and then the magician kind of gives the fool kind of tools to represent willpower, creativity. The magician teaches a fool about resources and availability.

Speaker 1 29:11

Out of curiosity, that's not the Jungian archetype of magician.

Speaker 3 29:16

It's kind of a universal archetype it is, though it is like the hero's journey.

Speaker 1 29:22

Comparative religion and the hero's journey don't align 100% with Jungian archetypes, but they're shared territory. So I heard the word magician, I thought with Jungian archetypes, but they're shared territory. So I heard the word magician, I thought of Jungian archetype. I just wondered if these were meant to correlate with Jungian archetypes or if it's just kind of that shared territory idea.

Speaker 3 29:41

I think it's the shared territory.

Speaker 1 29:43

They're not based on Jungian archetypes.

Speaker 1 29:46

No, okay, not that I know of, but you can interpret through that, if that um makes sense, because archetypes are available for the entire collective to tap into absolutely, and in fact it's kind of comical when a proprietary spin is put on them, especially the character archetypes like the magician or the trickster or the inventor or even the innocent. It wasn't really Jung himself, but I think Jungian psychologists after the fact kept expanding on the categories and they're kind of proprietary. Do you know what I mean? I agree with you that we're wired for them, and that's what comparative religion is? It kind of shows how, because we're wired for symbolism and life is metaphorical and story is the means by which we transform, right, and you could argue that archetypes are the language of story that in fact originated in our dreams pre-language. I love the fact that it demonstrates our interconnectivity that all cultures have these compartments. They're not culturally relative, they're universal, right.

Tarot and the Hero's Journey

Speaker 3 31:01

Yeah, that's how I see it in energetic energies really. Yeah, so okay. So the fool's on his journey, he meets a magician and he gets this knowledge. And then the second person on the hero's journey, of the fool's hero's journey, is the high priestess and she symbolizes like intuition, mystery, subconsciousness, and she introduces a fool to the inner world of intuition and hidden knowledge and she also contains like the last bit of information of hidden knowledge. She kind of took what the magician did and then even more. And then he'll go on his journey more and meet the empress after that and she's the number three and she's like fertility and nurturing and the earth and just everything like the natural world and creativity, sensuality. And then, after the Empress, he comes along and meets the Emperor, who teaches the Fool about structure, authority and discipline, control and power of reason, because when the fool's starting out on his journey he's empty, right, he's just naive and innocent and he's gaining all this knowledge. And then the Hierophant is the fifth card, which symbolizes religion and education and community and conformity and spiritual guidance.

Speaker 1 32:30

Out of curiosity, I'm hearing almost polarity. Is each one of these meant to be sort of a gamut?

Speaker 3 32:39

What do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 32:40

I just wondered. You know, because we mentioned that it's sort of rooted in a way in the Kabbalion and hermetic principles. There's a lot of talk of poles. Right, everything exists on a gamut. We've created these Western binaries of opposites when in fact there's complementary relationships that exist on a gamut. So wondered if each character or archetype has a shadow side. Maybe that's another way.

Speaker 3 33:08

Oh yeah, Okay, I see what you're. Yes, definitely, it's not that the card has a shadow side. It depends how it's spread out in the reading and it could warn you like, yeah, not to be too, don't conform too much, or to be too strict, or the heraphant's like the pope, you and so absolutely, they have shadow sides.

Speaker 1 33:34

Maybe the question was does Tarot take that into account? That actually nothing is really good, bad, right or wrong, or positive or negative, it just is. And then we actually create a lot of suffering by assigning value judgments to things. So I think you could argue for the value of you know any quality that might come up like oh, you're experiencing this kind of strife. Well, of course it's a crisis and an opportunity. I don't know. I guess I'm just generally asking about the polarity idea or the gamut idea, or if there is, Maybe there's no value judgment at all in tarot.

Speaker 3 34:11

Maybe nothing is meant to be seen as shadow or light, or positive or negative I would say that there actually is like, because some of the cards can also be when you spread a card, it could be turned upside down, and that tends to be the shadow side of the card oh, okay that's what I was gonna say is when they're upright and versus it's called the reverse card, which is when they're upside down, is kind of so if you're talking, at least how I've ordered, it's just like when you're talking about the full, about, you know, new beginnings and stuff.

Speaker 2 34:42

If it was upside down then it would be the opposite of that.

Speaker 1 34:47

Death.

Speaker 3 34:53

Well, not death, but there's a death and destruction. Um, actually, the full card actually is one I wouldn't turn anyway because it's zero. Yeah, that's true. So that would be the shadow side or just like maybe kind of negative energies or things to look at out for, or something to really pay attention to I've always understood with the cards when you're looking at them like if they're unshuffled fresh out of the box, kind of in their order of the deck is that each card technically builds on the next card throughout the journey of life experience.

Speaker 2 35:30

I guess. Guess would be probably maybe an easy way to say. Would you disagree with that, rosalind?

Speaker 3 35:34

oh no, that's his absolute journey. It's a story of the journey. It is a hero's journey, right like absolutely.

Speaker 1 35:41

So he's so again they're all, they're kind of crucibles and they're in the order that we might experience them in the hero's journey, the universal spiritual journey. So one propels you to the next in a way.

Speaker 3 35:53

Correct. No-transcript is connected to. Like the Saturn return, and so like first of all goes around blindly, innocently, and then you know your Saturn return comes around your age of 55, like 60, depending when you were born, and then you go around as a fool with wisdom.

Speaker 1 36:18

Yeah, I'd love for you to continue. Tomorrow's guest is going to talk about the hero's journey as expressed through the Bible.

Speaker 3 36:25

Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 1 36:26

Yeah, and it's really fascinating how there's corollaries all over the place. But I think what impressed me most is that, you know, I think Eastern traditions would call it enlightenment, but we would just call it redeeming ourselves, right? That actually you don't wait till you pass over, you don't wait till you transition right and get that crown in heaven. It's meant to happen while you're still in this physical realm as an expression of consciousness, right? So there's a lot of. I learned a lot of new just by researching him today, a lot of new terminology about that process and it is the hero's journey, yeah.

Speaker 3 37:04

Correct and and um yeah, cause then we get off on like Christianity, but Christ, yeah, the Christ, I mean that Christ. I think that's what the message was to reborn now.

Speaker 1 37:15

It's become, uh, something you think of as a crown in heaven, right, as opposed to redeeming yourself while above ground, you know.

Speaker 3 37:25

Correct? I think so, for especially a lot of you know institutional religion Right, exactly so, since you mentioned the Bible, the next, the next.

Speaker 1 37:38

Since you went and mentioned the Bible, the Bible.

Speaker 3 37:40

Well, it's interesting because you did. And then the next card is the fool meets the devil on the journey. And the devil is all the addiction, materialism, self-imposed limitation. This is where he has to confront shadows and things that we chain ourselves to right. And then, after the devil, comes the tower. And if, on that the card, you would see everything destruction and everything falling apart so the revelations in the bible yep.

Speaker 3 38:16

So there's like exactly so, sudden change and upheaval, um a dramatic shift in life to full experiences, which leads to breakdowns of like false beliefs and structures. It may not feel good, but it's a good thing. And that's the devil meets the star, which brings hope, inspiration, serenity after the chaos of the tower, and that's where the fool starts to feel a sense of renewal and spiritual connection. And then the fool meets the moon, and that actually represents illusion, fear in the subconscious. And then the fool will navigate through confusion and uncertainty and learning and to trust their intuition. And then, after that, here comes the sun, which is the number 20. And the sun signifies joy and clarity and vitality, so the fool's reaching the state of enlightenment and positive energy and success. And then, after the sun, is judgment, and judgment represents an awakening right, an evaluation, a final assessment leading to transformation. And then, at the very, the last major arcana is the world, and it signifies completion, integration and fulfillment.

Speaker 1 39:51

And so the fool's journey comes full circle right it's kind of like in the hero's journey, when you either right if it's through the rabbit hole tail. When you come back through that portal you sort of apply the wisdom you acquired to life right, or you kind of bring back the wisdom for others to partake in yes, exactly.

Speaker 3 40:11

And then? The second, the second round I would say is the fool becomes a magician in a way, so it is like a whole story. The fool becomes the see in a way, so it is like a whole story. The fool becomes the magician.

Speaker 1 40:24

See, magician has a negative ring to me, but is that like alchemy? Yes, okay, I like that better, because somehow magician there's trickery in the word magician Whereas alchemy says you were sort of in alignment with universe and you're dovetailing, and I think we have the Alchemy of Youth. I mean, have you ever read the?

Speaker 3 40:46

Alchemist? Yes, I did, and I really like that book, and I cannot remember the author's name.

Speaker 1 40:51

Coelho.

Speaker 3 40:53

And it's funny, nick, because the Magician is like in your reading in your future. It's the top overall card.

Speaker 1 41:03

Let's use the word alchemist, okay.

Speaker 3 41:05

Alchemist.

Speaker 1 41:06

For me.

Speaker 3 41:07

Okay.

Speaker 1 41:07

Yeah, I hate magic, I despise magic.

Speaker 3 41:11

Yeah, he's not that kind of magician. He'll never see me at the magic castle. Darn it Okay.

Speaker 1 41:17

No, I have friends that are magicians and I'm like I'm sorry it doesn't hold my attention, friends that are magicians and I'm like I'm sorry it doesn't hold my attention. But I have a big relationship with alchemy, the beginner's luck that Paul Coelho talks about. How the beginner's luck right? He basically says if your personal legend that's how he puts your calling your ministry right, if you pursue your personal legend, the universe conspires in your favor. He calls that beginner's luck so kind of losing. That alchemy of youth is something I relate to big time in the hero's journey. And then, of course, we're meant to get over our disillusionment or futility or whatever those demons are, and rediscover our alchemy and begin to co-create with the universe again.

Speaker 3 42:00

Yeah, and it makes more sense for the magician card. Agreed, it is the alchemist.

Speaker 1 42:06

Magician implies illusion, deception. All of that for me, Snake oil.

Speaker 3 42:14

Okay, the alchemist.

Speaker 1 42:18

I do have a question. I mean, I knew none of that, so thank you. That's really beautiful and for our listeners. As a weird side note, the cards you chose to shoot. You took a picture of how the cards ended up on the table and I'm looking at them during our reading, but it happened to be Klimt, an artist that is one of my top three influences, so that's kind of fascinating in itself.

Speaker 3 42:39

Yeah, yeah, and I have different decks and that's the one I felt for you, and yeah really Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 42:46

Yeah, klimt is probably my favorite artist of all time.

Speaker 3 42:50

That's amazing.

Speaker 1 42:51

And so another question I have is? Virginia kind of mentioned that unshuffled straight out of the deck. They are linear. It represents the hero's journey chronologically, is that correct?

Speaker 3 43:03

Yes.

Speaker 1 43:04

So when you do a reading, let's say you randomly seemingly randomly pull cards, but we know there's some order behind it, right? But let's say the deck has already been disturbed or shuffled many times and you just simply pull for a given reading. If the deck comes in a chronological order that mirrors the hero's journey in a linear way, but a reading is never going to be linear. What is the significance of that? Does that mean that we all experience the steps in the hero's journey in a different order?

Speaker 3 43:37

it's a really circular journey, you know. I know I told it like in a linear way and if there's, but in the circle um, there's really no beginning, or end. So I see, I see yeah, so you could be at some point. It could be the second time around. It's also the energies that perhaps you may have to revisit.

Exploring Tarot and Personal Growth

Speaker 1 43:59

You know, this is just the story of the tarot, that's I guess that's what I meant, like, maybe we all have themes that recur in our lives and I've often said sometimes we're meant to conquer a given something right. We all have our, our unique souls and our unique challenges.

Speaker 3 44:16

So sometimes when a theme recurs, it's because, for the fifth time right, it's because maybe we're meant to conquer it yeah, I mean you can look at that like karma really, because if we might like have an event with a person and then we maybe leave that person behind, here comes another person or situation.

Speaker 1 44:39

Same thing, different, different scenery, different scenery, you know the prime example of that is a codependent is going to find an alcoholic at a party. From across the room they will. They're like magnets. They will magically find each other right. So, yes, everybody finds themselves. And did I end up? Gee, I didn't realize I was dating my mom again. But did I end up with my mom again for the third or the fifth time? Right, we all relate to that a little bit and I think it's meant to wake us up and the universe speaks louder and louder to get our attention. The documentary what the bleep? Did you ever see that back in the day?

Speaker 3 45:14

Yeah, I did actually.

Speaker 1 45:16

Yeah, if you want to put an empirical slant on it and kind of reconcile it with cell biology and quantum mechanics, you could say that we have peptide addictions. So we're going to find ourselves in the same role over and over again because of a literal addiction to peptides. So do you remember the example of like? If you internalize some kind of negative messaging from your youth that you're a klutz because your dad called you a klutz, every day you're going to find a way to spill a drink on yourself at a party. You just will.

Speaker 3 45:46

Yeah, and then it's true, and then you really have to eat the caterpillar to stop the karma.

Speaker 1 45:55

Yeah, and one thing you brought up in our last session you had just not just come back from that yoga retreat, but you very much shared with us how you know taking a meta view of a situation allows you to reframe the narrative. It's the same thing as narrative therapy that Virginia and I talk about quite a bit. But do you remember that about the yoga retreat? How it actually allows you to see it objectively, forgive in a way, right by putting yourself in the supposed adversaries shoes, that sort of thing yes, and and it's really ourselves it's all in, so we don't really have an adversary you're kind of saying that even with ancestral trauma or intergenerational trauma, we're taking such a man of you that we realize we all have our circumstances and conditions right and that we were born with.

Speaker 1 46:47

And it's not just forgiving the other party but it's recognizing our shared humanity and forgiving right the failings of humanity in a way.

Speaker 3 46:56

Yes, the failings of humanity, and that if we are technically all, if you get into quantum physics you know we're all one.

Speaker 1 47:05

So we enter R.

Speaker 3 47:08

We enter R yeah, and so that's just a reflection of our thoughts.

Speaker 2 47:16

Which I probably tie back into, like Dominic's question. You know, just going back to you know the tarot. When you're asking about when a reading's happening, think of yourself as being the full and where you are personally, probably at this point in your life, is where the fool is, it in its journey, and so the cards are pulled, based off that kind of thought process. So that's where it comes out of that linear deck of, you know, not being shuffled to the shuffled deck.

Speaker 1 47:47

I think I get it. But it also says to me that things can come in different orders and maybe resurface, as we said, right Certain things. You thought you would have conquered resurface as a theme that you're supposed to look at again. Thought you would have conquered resurface as a theme that you're supposed to look at again.

Speaker 2 48:02

Yeah, reveals different facets of where you're at in the journey and probably you know like where those personal, you know reoccurring themes happen.

Speaker 1 48:15

Maybe I'll. I'll you know I'll click when you do the reading. Is that? A better way for me to learn is by doing the reading.

Speaker 3 48:21

Yeah, I think, yeah, do the reading. Is that a better way for me to learn is by doing the reading. Yeah, I think, um, yeah, you'll definitely get more kind of insights or understandings.

Speaker 1 48:28

I'm hoping, um, like I say, it's multi-layered, so well, is there anything else you would want to share about? Again, what is tarot? What is the tradition? How does a modern reading go down, at least in your practice? Or should we just do the down reading?

Speaker 3 48:45

Maybe just do the reading, because it might answer, and then pop in and ask questions anytime.

Speaker 1 48:50

Well, that was my question. When I've said several times how does it go down? What's the protocol? There may not be one, but I just wonder am I supposed to give feedback? Does that change the way you conduct your reading? Or do I wait till the end and then wait for you to prompt me for feedback? How does that work?

Speaker 3 49:07

I would say, since we're on a podcast and stuff, interrupt me and ask questions, and because other people might have questions also, as I'm doing, hey, wait a minute.

Speaker 1 49:16

How did you mean by that? Something like that?

Speaker 3 49:19

What the hell did you mean by that?

Speaker 1 49:23

Something like that. I'll soften it a little bit.

Rose Hydrosol and Oracle Cards

Speaker 3 49:26

So you had a lot of like feminine energy, mother energy, and I know your mother passed away and that energy was definitely with me and just the divine mother, and so when I laid out the table for your reading, I used kuan yin, who is the eastern kind of divine mother, and the virgin mary, um symbols and candles, and I put a lot of rose quartz because I kept getting that kind of vibe which is um unconditional loving energy which I feel like you.

Speaker 1 50:08

You know my mom's middle name, right?

Speaker 3 50:10

your mom's middle name no, it's rose oh my god, you just gave me okay. I have to tell you something else then okay, but there's more.

Speaker 1 50:20

Her middle name is rose. Of course her services, we used roses. See, this is what I'm not supposed to be doing now. I'm telling you more, but we're not evidential psychics here. Anyway, rose is everywhere for her ceremony. But also we've always said she wears rose-colored glasses, like I won't say too much, but with alcoholism and codependency. We've always talked about her as the prime example of rose-colored glasses.

Speaker 3 50:44

Yeah, Okay, so I have to say also, yesterday I picked a bunch of roses and for some reason I was drawn to make what you call a rose hydrosol. You distill roses and it took me like four hours to do this process, but I felt like I I had to do it.

Speaker 1 51:04

Thank you. By the way, I know how much goes into this and you're giving me a freebie, so thank you. I mean I hopefully it benefits everybody, but I personally want to thank you for that.

Speaker 3 51:15

Oh, yes, and thank you both. It gives me an opportunity to learn more and just give feedback, feedback and yeah but I I know how much went into it, so thank you.

Speaker 1 51:26

But so you were compelled to make a to make a rose hydrosol.

Speaker 3 51:30

And so you, it's a distillation, it's an alchemist process, alchemy, um. And so you know, I did it on the stove, it looks like a chemistry experiment and I got all these roses. So I'm just like you know, I did it on the stove, it looks like a chemistry experiment, and I got all these roses. So I'm just like you know what. I just need to do this before I do a reading and do all the cards. It's going to get tons of chills right now. And so I picked a whole bunch of roses, did a distillation, I have rose hydrosol and then the water you know that you use for the steam to come up. The roses also the the oils and stuff go backwards a little bit sometimes, and it was this beautiful, like golden color, and I decided to keep it. And so, before I came on today, I'm like, okay, now I have to shower and just like dump rose water on my body before I talk to you.

Speaker 3 52:18

So I actually had no idea. And, nick, I pulled an Oracle card. I have a gemstone card and I'm like this. I'm just curious, because roses just kept coming through so much, I pulled the rose quartz.

Speaker 1 52:32

Rose quartz Again, the second time yeah.

Speaker 3 52:35

So I use real rose quartz for your table on the spread like the rose quartz gemstone. But these are gemstone cards and I shuffled them up and I'm just like what is this energy? And again, it was rose quartz wow, okay, mom is here.

Speaker 1 52:52

You know we'll get. We'll talk more later if there's something else trippy happened. Virginia knows when the psychic was on here there was a vicarious by proxy visitation from my mom. But real quick, it would really. I mean, my head will explode. There will be brain matter on my wall, this is true. But can you tell me what kind of roses you used in your concoction?

Speaker 3 53:16

they're called sisal brunner. Um, there's, that's I had the most of, uh, sisal brunner, that's what I had the most of A Sisselbrunner and they're really fragrant and they're a light pink like a rose quartz color.

Speaker 1 53:26

Okay, Well, I think a lot of. We have some really beautiful names on that side of the family. I don't know why Marnay, Monty, emerson, fay. It's partially the country thing, but it's also the era. There's some silly like Monty, monty, ray their last name is Ray. Well, they named him Monty because he was conceived in Monterey. So there's some silly things. But they are also, strangely, they weren't very religious but there's a lot of biblical names. They named their dog Shadrach and you know I've just learned there's a lot of biblical names and, for whatever reason, they named my mom Rose because of the Sharon Rose for in the Bible and I don't know that story.

Speaker 1 54:09

I don't either. I the the lily of the valley. There's a lot of versions of the Sharon Rose but I don't know nowadays. It is a type like you could order it from Conroy's. There is a Sharon Rose but I think the origin was the lily of the valley and there's speculation that it was a type like you could order it from conroys. There is a sharon rose but I think the origin was the lily of the valley and there's speculation that it was a lily and not a rose. I never got to the bottom of it but I think you know they named.

Speaker 1 54:29

They gave her the middle name rose because they had the ring sharon rose okay but I I don't know if the sharon rose is the lighter pink that you're describing or not okay, and yeah, we'll, we'll Google it.

Speaker 3 54:41

Yeah, google it. Ask the Google God.

Speaker 1 54:47

We've got fingers.

Speaker 3 54:50

For now. Yeah, so that's what I did prior to your reading.

Speaker 1 54:56

Amazing, amazing. Thank you yeah.

Speaker 3 54:57

So that's really amazing. And then having that mother kind of energy I used before I started the actual Tarot reading, I used these Oracle cards by this artist, a Tibetan artist, and he made these wild Kuan Yin Oracle cards. He did the artwork and they're so beautiful so I pulled a card from that kind of representing the Eastern vibe, and then you also got grandmother of love and granddaughter of life. So I like to do Oracle cards, kind of to have the energy around the reading and there's so much to it and that's why I'm going to email you, but I'll make this short. You know, email you, but I'll make this short. It just says that you know how to learn from experience and grow stronger and more loving, even through life's challenges, and trust yourself in life. And you're growing now towards your divine destiny.

Speaker 3 55:53

And as I go through the reading, you're going to see how this also aligns to the actual tarot reading. And all those who are wise like you okay, allow those who are wise like you. Okay, allow those who are wise like you to be your companions as you choose not to believe in the voices of fear. Yeah, and as you go through the reading, there's another thing about gathering those kind of people, but you'll get more on this. I won't take up the time because it's kind of long. I'm resonating with all of it, by the way. I'm just waiting of long.

Speaker 1 56:21

I'm resonating with all of it. By the way, I'm just waiting, I'm listening, but I resonate with all of it. These are themes.

Speaker 3 56:26

These are themes, yep oh my gosh, yeah you. Well, you'll see when we get into the reading um, because, oh yeah, uh, lack and abundance was coming through a lot.

Speaker 1 56:38

Of course, lack and abundance is a huge theme in my life. Yep.

Speaker 3 56:42

Yeah, and so um, the so for my ancestral kind of my ancestors helping me out in the reading. You got the high priestess, cause I call it's. This is actually isn't, it is Tarot, but this is a different little Oracle deck, uh, with the Hebrew letters, and it's um, it's the shown by the sign of gimel. It's a letter, but also all the letters mean numbers and and images, so it represents the camel and the camel can hold water. You know how special of an animal, like in the driest of places, and so it's a pretty magical animal and it's basically in a nutshell. And again, you're going to get way more, nick, okay, but I won't do it on the podcast because it's just too long. But it's focus on your life path and manifest abundance. That's kind of the energy too around it. And then for the card, kind of using the western side of the world, uh, they're gonna laugh.

Speaker 3 57:50

You got the south card and it's abundance, I'm not kidding you um, and it's a lot of information on that and and just to let you know, you know your tomorrows will be provided for. Your hard work pays off. It's time to reap the rewards, you know. But there's so much to it, but that's kind of the overall of the South.

Speaker 1 58:16

Here's where I know these aren't even the main cards yet, right?

Speaker 3 58:20

Correct.

Speaker 1 58:21

Okay. So I don't know when to interject. I feel like we are. It's human nature to connect dots, right? Especially artists and um that speak the language of um. Symbolism, right. You tend to project onto things or definitely read into symbols. So I have something to say about all of this, but then it's becomes projection, like I don't want to cheapen this, but I could talk about any one of the things you just mentioned and how these themes have been coming up right now. So when you talk about sort of what is your predominant vibration at any given time, you know what I mean. Like a lot of this is universal, but it's like what is vibrationally on the surface at the moment. So, everything you said, I have something to say about it, but I'm kind of saving it.

Speaker 3 59:11

Okay, great, it is silly to interject to go.

Speaker 1 59:14

I mean everything you've said. It's like how weird the idea of divine compensation. I've been Googling that. I've been listening to Marianne Williamson. I've been Googling that. I've been listening to Marianne Williamson. I've been investigating divine compensation. In other words, what's the difference between saying is there a crown in heaven or is it all for naught, or providence? So providence has been a big theme, as has been divine compensation. Uh, the future is very uncertain in terms of being taken care of. Yeah, so, and the you know, and the estate and all of that.

Speaker 3 59:51

I mean literally going through the belongings and what has sentimental value what constitutes a legacy, all of that. So I'm going to interrupt you. So, yeah, maybe not give me that much information and save it to the end, because I did not know what was going on. I between that on that level with um, you know, your, your, the estate.

Speaker 1 1:00:07

Well, it's kind of what happens, right.

Speaker 3 1:00:09

Yeah, yeah, I just um sometimes, yeah, I don't, but I don't know your um the information on it.

Speaker 1 1:00:18

Okay, we'll leave it alone for now.

Exploring Spiritual Growth and Material Loss

Speaker 3 1:00:20

But yeah, you may not have known we were going through that because my dad is still alive, right, yeah, correct, so I was, yeah, so I won't tell you any more than okay, okay, because this is like basically saying you know, good financial fortunes also come in your way. This is the south and that's abundance of the overall energy. Is this like a mothering energy, divine mother, mother and abundance and ego death. So I'll just get into it. And so, if you look at your picture, the card I drew well, I didn't even this one fell out of the deck, okay, and this is good. So it's, and it represents yourself and it's that center card and it came in upside down and it's the king of pentacles.

Speaker 1 1:01:19

So again pentacles pentacles.

Speaker 1 1:01:21

Sorry, yeah, pentacles okay, the word pentecost came up this morning when researching the guest for tomorrow that I told you about. I've never actually known what the word pentecost means. And pentecostal comes from it, right, it's entire anyway. Do you know what that word means? No, I do not. Okay, another, okay, another thing to look up, but I think it's something about the part of the hero's journey where the Christ consciousness first appears in somebody's consciousness. Do you know what I mean? It just appears. It doesn't mean you're going to do anything about it.

Speaker 3 1:01:58

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:02:00

It's the beginning of the spiritual journey, something like that Of awakening. It's the beginning of. It's the beginning of this spiritual journey, something like that of awakening.

Speaker 3 1:02:05

It's the beginning of the journey of awakening, yeah okay, all right, yeah, and so in the tarot it's kind of um, the material world in all its facets, okay, um, basically particulate, you know everything, and beyond um, um, and your security and all that. So this was reversed, it fell out of the deck and it's the king, like when it's upright, the king has the material world mastered.

Speaker 1 1:02:41

Wow.

Speaker 3 1:02:42

Yours flipped upside down and fell out.

Speaker 1 1:02:46

That's what I was thinking. If it represents the material world, if it's upside down, doesn. If it represents the material world if it's upside down, doesn't that mean the spiritual world?

Speaker 3 1:02:53

it can mean, but I was feeling, or for my, it definitely can mean it in a way, yes, but more for this. It's for the wealth and security. It's more like your coins are falling out of your pocket, you know, and in a way like, um, you know, there's kind of a lack of financial stability, um, you know, in general, but also it also means the earth and grounding and you know, being in nature and, um, you know, you, you may be called upon to like in this position, because the positions of the cards in the tarot reading and the spread have different meanings too, and, and that again would take a pretty long time to go through each position, but yours is in the first position. This, this position, is easy to explain. It just means yourself, the energy that is presently around.

Speaker 1 1:04:01

Absolutely Well. Again, I, I'm sorry I'm going to share. Uh, I know you didn't want to hear too much about my mom's thing, but the last seven to 10 years of my life have been exactly that, where I've said so many times everything has been taken from me. I don't like to tell that story, but it's true, Like, materially, everything was taken from me.

Navigating Spiritual Growth and Energy

Speaker 1 1:04:24

There was a point where I absolutely felt like, okay, I'm done here, where I absolutely felt like, okay, I'm done here, Like I'm done with this body, and not that I was the most enlightened person on earth, but I felt like the emotional arc and then the spiritual evolution, just wondering if I had anything left to offer or to give or if I was kind of done here, and.

Speaker 1 1:04:43

But then the crucibles led me to a place where I thought I wouldn't trade that for the world, the spiritual richness I've gained through the minimalism. And I once asked you know, all I wanted was more spiritual humility. I downsized, intentionally, right, and I became a minimalist with the best of intentions, right To nurture my spirituality. But it's kind of like be careful what you ask for, because you have to have your base needs met. So, anyway, I identify with all that. That's the past 10 years of my life, has been the irony of really not having much the abundance to show for the spiritual growth but yet saying over and over again but I wouldn't trade it for the world, that spiritual growth, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 1:05:25

Yeah, kind of checking out of the material world, and Kabbalah would call it growth and expansion right. I'm definitely not in the expansion mode. I'm in the restriction mode, yep.

Speaker 3 1:05:37

Yeah, and the Kabbalah too is like the material world. Going through all the world of the Kabbalah, the very last I don't know if I'm going to pronounce it right Sephirot, the last little circle on the tree of life, it is a birth in the material world. Yeah, so, and you kind of travel both, and when you can go up and down in the Kabbalah too, you kind of could go up and down the tree of life, and that's a whole other thing. I use the Kabbalah too and I'll put more in the email, in your reading. Okay, yeah, but back to the first position.

Speaker 3 1:06:24

You, in the present, the King of Pentacles upside down, in the present, the king of pentacles upside down, um, you know, I think it also, um, because maybe there's too much overthinking, uh kind of an imbalance with the earth, energy, um, the grounding, this, you know, um to being just grounded, like there might be too much stuff going on in your mind, maybe anxiety, um, you could associate it with, like the spleen and the stomach and um, yeah, so it's like it's also interesting because the earth is connected to divine mother and mother mary and everything. But I did in this position also, you know, you may be called upon to like carry a heavy load in some way and it and it I think people have like may have a negative thing, like, oh no, that's stressful and causes me more anxiety, but on your reading it's a heavy load, um, that you'll be able, that you can carry because of the ego death and, and I really do feel it's a spiritual load you'll be carrying and and I I'll go more into it as we move on.

Speaker 3 1:07:48

I think I've had enough of that haven't I had 10 years of that no, but there's a different way, nick. You'll see, let me go through the thing and we'll talk more about that one.

Speaker 3 1:07:58

It's a load that you carry, not just for yourself well, yeah, and I relate to that too so so I don't know if that's the current or the present or you know, but yep, I relate um, okay, so I'll try to go, you know, just because time and stuff like that, um, so that was a reverse, so that's kind of the shadow side, in a way, of the king of pentacles right, that you were talking about shadow side. So that's kind of the, you know, negative side. When it's not, it's out of balance. And then in the second position, some people will say it's the east and the mind.

Speaker 3 1:08:40

Um, you got the eight of cups and the eight of cups emotion and um water everything, all your intellectual um pursuits, your mental states, um, and it can mean, like it indicates a desire to leave something behind.

Speaker 3 1:09:01

Um, that also could suggest a period of introspection. You know you need to move away from an unsatisfied, unsatisfying situations to find emotional fulfillment, kind of thing. Um, these are just summarizing um, it's also looking at because, okay, it looks like the love of self and the love of others and a moving into the one love of unity, um, and sometimes you have the fortitude and hope for the future and that's like your strength and people rely on it and some of the people are really needy. I don't know if that's resonating and, um, you might need to rest and restore and and hold onto your energy and if the alchemist, aka the magician, is next to this card or the hermit with the alchemist, it's saying you're going to, you know you can reach the top and whatever the top is for you and the hermit, which also it's in your reading, is to be patient and inner joy will be your reward.

Speaker 1 1:10:18

After you eat the catapult Okay, I actually saw a connection between something you just described in this card about preserving my energy, maybe, and needy people, that sort of thing and then initially said one of the cards was about was about kind of choosing. I don't want to use the wrong terminology, but you know how there's people that are vibrating at your vibration and how there's people that are vibrating at your vibration and then there's others that might not be on the same high flying disc. Kind of choosing, or, you know, prioritizing those you want to surround yourself with. That you said that early on, but do you see a relationship between those two cards?

Speaker 1 1:11:07

oh, yeah, definitely yeah, one of the first things you said was about I don't know. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it was something about choosing who you surround yourself with, you know yeah, yeah, because that's what the king of pentacles reverse is like.

Speaker 3 1:11:21

Focus now on releasing people who have a narrow-minded, inflexible view of life right.

Speaker 1 1:11:25

And then this card seemed there was something about bloodsuckers.

Speaker 3 1:11:29

That's yeah yes, and so this also is a theme in the reading. As you see, as we go through, this is not the only card that, um, you know, not the only two cards that are kind of giving you that discernment or direction or guidance yeah, I, I mean, I will just quickly say I've been challenged.

Speaker 1 1:11:50

You know that idea. Like you got to maintain your vibration and although, like mother Teresa, you can feel that you're, you know, strong enough to be in the trenches, right, but then you got to re-energize if you're going to keep up your own vibration, so you have more. If you don't look out for yourself, you have less to give others right. And so I'm absolutely being confronted with that lately, like, actually, I like to fancy that I can slum it with people that are on a pretty low vibration. You know it sounds horrible. But then at what point do I look out for myself? You know, and yeah.

Speaker 1 1:12:29

I've been having to think about that, like not removing people from my life, but just shifting. Where you know what you put your attention on grows, so choosing what I give airtime, to put it that way.

Speaker 3 1:12:41

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and it's going to talk about that too, cause I'm not meaning like removing people from your life, like completely, you know.

Speaker 1 1:12:52

But not just choosing the energies and the vibrations that you surround yourself with, and in my case it's just kind of like sounds very delusional, but you know you don't really slum it. I was using that in quotes, right, but when am I being taxed by the vibrations? I think I'm strong enough to withstand, but yet of course it eventually erodes my own vibration. So, you know, we just have to, um, uh, what do you call it like? Uh, ration, ration our resources, you know?

Speaker 3 1:13:27

or or re? Um, because energy is always there and that's the thing. The earth is always there and the energy of the mother is abundant and you just have to not even ration, because that's almost like lack just regenerate, right, you know? Um, yeah, try to get yourself in nature and silence and quiet time and um. So another, just one more little thing about this card, and again you're gonna get an email. That's way more information, um, it also symbolizes, like you can find a needle in a haystack, kind of energy right now, um, and you're gonna find, um, I guess, abundance and joy in places you wouldn't think so, in weird places, like through pain not saying to do anything like that, but just some painful experience, experience, and then from this you're going to be able to like move mountains, like if you're feeling stuck or something's in your way, like you'll be able to do it. That energy is also surrounding, um, you know, surrounding you I like it.

Speaker 3 1:14:46

And so the next card is the Queen of Swords and she's in the third position and, like I said, I did a mandala one. So the center card was the King, upside down. If you look directly to the right above it was the Eight of Cups and then you go down below her, it's a her in your picture, it's the Queen of Swords and she's in the third position and so she kind of this position kind of is like your emotional state, your relationships. So the Queen of Swords embodies clarity, intellect, emotional independence. She advises using like clear logic, clear thinking, like the energy of the Queen of Swords is. She's a no-nonsense, really smart energy that comes in and like with her sword, cuts out the bullshit and just could see the bigger picture and let's just get down to it, right love it

Speaker 3 1:15:55

and that energy and like because of her position she was in in your reading I have a feeling and just all the the feminine energy like somebody like that to guide you or some experience you'll have, is coming your way. Like like pay attention because she's, she's coming in some kind of form as like serious inspiration, like she's a great person to have on your team, which is not she could be Kurt, you know what I mean Maybe not the nicest, but she's kind and fair and just and really freaking smart, and so she's coming, nick.

Speaker 1 1:16:42

Nice. Well, I guess I'm confused again. If it's not a fortune, you know, fortune telling some of these things I resonate with in the past, but I actually was like, oh, I thought not that we arrive Right, but they seem like older themes. Some things seem like, oh, that is my current vibration and, you know, some things seem like maybe they're on the horizon. Is there a chronology to this? Because I would say I've had that. I mean, I don't want to go on and on, but throughout my medical ordeal I would I regularly said oh, you know, renee was the chosen one for a variety of reasons, but largely it's because, like me, she has followed through. She's you know what I mean Impeccable with her word, and I would jokingly say, and she won't let go, she's like a pit bull, she won't let go. So that fierce loyalty, that fierce dedication, and so I feel like I had her and I've been very lucky to have her. But you're saying she's going to come along. So do you know what?

Speaker 3 1:17:42

I mean, yeah, the energy I feel and it could be in a guise of, it could be even something you uh experience, but I feel like it is a um embodied human person that is, coming in the sense where you're reading, had a lot of, like I say, like a lack of, uh, a feeling of a lack in the material world, and and this person, coming in, sees such a big picture that I, I think she's gonna help usher in the abundance part, like help you cut through, like a guide, like just cut, cut, cut here. I love it.

Speaker 1 1:18:24

You know like I, it's meaning more now. Yeah, I think I know who kind of who that person is.

Speaker 3 1:18:37

Yeah, I mean not anyone in particular but I know that the role that could do, you know, I mean that could correlate with Yep.

Speaker 1 1:18:39

Yeah, ok, context in which this person is going to play that part. I think I know what that might mean, yep.

Speaker 3 1:18:46

OK, so, and then the next position is the nine of cups and it. It's that picture of the pregnant woman on the cards in your picture, and she's upside down, and let's see, I did take a bunch of notes, I'm sorry. So okay, this physician also represents your physical aspects of your life, including health and the material world.

Speaker 1 1:19:24

Um, and she's reversed so speaks for itself right her cups.

Speaker 3 1:19:30

Her cups just dumped out, right right like in the upright position she's, she's almost there, like she's about to begin something new or end something and have everything emotionally like she wants, and then she dumps it out, um, it could just mean like unmet desires kind of like that kind of thing. But for yours in particularly, I just kind of she cut. When it's reversed, the energy is like rejection of surface values, like, um, it's a time of liberation. When I say liberation, I mean more like integration and of of um, of feelings, of emotions, of emotions, masculine energy, feminine energy. It's like integrating in you, which is really, I think, kind of the point of balancing those energies.

Exploring Minimalism and Spiritual Richness

Speaker 3 1:20:44

And if you think of water and like when you water, like you dump it out and it just goes into a really deep, the deepest place, right, it always seeks the deepest place, um, and I you know you're, you're, you might be at a point like just feeling everything, um to like a fault almost as well, like you might be really sensitive right now to everything, physically, emotionally, you know witnessing um. That's why taking a break and coming in and silencing, silent, you know silencing your mind and and your surroundings and um, even a little bit of everything you're doing as far as work and everything goes. Just kind of go inward and if you can, I know you do um, but like take a break, a respite, like if you can obviously not everybody can do that um. And then she also indicates that you might have concerns about money spent in a venture, like maybe you put too much money into something. But I just feel like you're yeah, it's rejecting a lot of the material or like surface kind of values around and I don't know if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 1:22:22

Um well, that came up earlier again in another card. The idea of minimalism, or I mean lack, is a negative word, right, but minimalism or stillness is a very positive word. But but didn't that come up in another card as well, when I said that has been the story of my life is finding spiritual richness in the minimalism right, the lack of abundance, the lack of materialism. I remember that coming up in another card.

Speaker 3 1:22:45

Yeah, yeah, this is kind of a theme and lack, lack in um, yeah, like the material world, right, not lack, because we're abundant in many ways.

Speaker 1 1:22:56

And um well, that's what I mean. There's been an inverse relationship between spiritual richness and right, physical yeah, I'm not materialistic and I never have been but sort of any value being placed on things you know and possessions, and and material.

Speaker 3 1:23:19

Yeah, material is like the central world too, right, because it doesn't just have to be things like it could be. Some people are, you know, it's things in a sense, but it does have to be like big house and, you know, a yacht. It could also mean, uh, food or drugs or anything the central world like beauty or yeah, denying oneself the central pleasures of life yeah, yeah I mean, yeah, it's.

Speaker 3 1:23:54

Yeah, I'm a monk me too in a way. But all the material world, even our bodies, right like everything um do you want me to spell it out? No, I'm just saying right.

Speaker 1 1:24:10

Every time I see my doctor he says, despite your monastic lifestyle, dot, dot, dot. Yeah. So, yeah, no, I relate to all of that. I mean I miss food. I definitely, you know, yeah, I miss food. And then I miss that other thing, that other biological function. It's been a long time. Food, yeah, like, like, I love food. I'm a foodie. I hate that word, but I am a foodie, so that's one of the things I miss.

Speaker 3 1:24:40

I don't get to, you know, I mean experience cuisine and uh, yeah, the other thing yeah, yeah, um yeah, food costs money, you know oh my gosh, it's so expensive and it takes us back into that um outside things to bring us pleasure, and which is fine sometimes, but when it's a behavioral pattern, um, you're kind of staying in the dark. If you're on on, you're not staying in the dark, but you're. It's not a, it's not a negative thing, but that's. It's harder to reach a spiritual realization when you have I for most, when you're connected, living so much in the sensual material world right as entertainment.

Speaker 1 1:25:36

I don't know if that makes any sense, absolutely, I mean there's a reason gluttony was one of the seven deadly sins, right? So I think. When it's a vice, right, and you are mood regulating through the sensual pleasures, right, whether it's overeating or being a sex addict, right, then you're out of balance.

Speaker 3 1:25:54

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 1:25:55

I mean, one thing about me is my. One of my downfalls is I'm too balanced for my own good. So, yeah, I feel blessed that I'm balanced in a lot of ways, you know, but through circumstances I resonate with that card. There's been a lot of deprivation, right, and I did a whole podcast about how nobody deprives you of anything. You only self deprive, right.

Speaker 1 1:26:20

If, as you were saying, the universe is abundant and resources are plentiful, and if you get rid of that sort of mentality of scarcity, everything seems to replenish, right. That's what the providence is that we were talking about earlier. But absolutely for a variety of reasons. Again, I relate to minimalism over the past 10 years and the spiritual richness that resulted from it. But in turning things around, I actually think I deserve abundance and I'm kind of now, nothing's out of whack, nothing's out of balance. But I certainly do miss food, and not as a mood regulator, right, but as one of the finer things in life that I've always enjoyed. I miss going to movies. Those things cost money. That's all I meant. I'm eating angel project angel food meals. They're just not that tasty, they're like cardboard. So, thank God, I have a friend that's bringing me uh, she's a caterer and I get, uh, Cypriot cuisine every now and then. So thank God for that Cause I would have jumped out the window eating just project angel food. So you get what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 1:27:24

I mean yes, yes, absolutely Okay, yeah, but think it's in balance but I think gay men especially love culture, we love cinema, we love a good meal, and so I don't see it as a negative.

Speaker 3 1:27:40

I see it as one of the things I enjoy in life that I look forward to indulging in again because I'm so balanced, yeah, okay, I see what you're saying and I guess what I'm saying is it's not necessarily, it's not necessarily negative, it just, and from a vedic position, you know, or yogic, it could, um, get kind of get you off your path in a way, not not doing it. You know too if you're addicted to it or if you're not attached. Okay, if you're not attached to it. Right, that's the word, right, okay.

Speaker 3 1:28:18

So the next card is the Hermit, and this is one of the major arcanas that I was talking about, and so I don't have the picture in front of me. I don't remember the Hermit. Oh, it's the bottom card center, yep, okay, it's the bottom card center, yep, okay. So this is a spiritual and this position deals with spiritual growth and inner guidance, suggests a period of introspection and seeking inner wisdom. It encourages solitude and contemplation, and then you know it's telling you to kind of take time to withdraw from society, but not, you know, humanity right To activate more of the unconscious, and you'll be given like guidance and like that helps always available. So the hermit has his, like lantern, traditionally, and he's holding it, and you know he's guiding and assisting others in transforming their lives?

Speaker 1 1:29:13

is that like this, the led zeppelin album the hermit with the lantern?

Speaker 3 1:29:17

that probably is exactly what that's from I forget.

Speaker 1 1:29:20

Yeah, yeah, it is yeah, my mom actually painted. We had a bedroom wall, we had a garage bedroom, so about like what were we called the latchkey kids yes, totally no parenting, no supervision. My brother and I had a bedroom in the garage and we had a PVC pipe where you could blow bong hits out into the alley. I mean, that's the extent of our independence. But anyway, we had a really cool mural on the wall and it had the yes album cover. It had Pink Floyd, the wall and great detail. And my mom painted that lamplighter from the Zeppelin album. But she didn't know. It's like Satan, isn't it? Virginia, virginia.

Speaker 3 1:30:00

Hermit.

Self-Realization Through Emotional Withdrawal

Speaker 1 1:30:01

Well, just the version on the Zeppelin album. Somebody or I don't know, maybe not.

Speaker 3 1:30:06

OK, not in the Tarot at all, though Like yeah, zero, the hermits are really wise. He's holding the light in the darkness.

Speaker 1 1:30:15

Oh, okay, well, that's what my mom was. You know, that's what she was focused on. Yeah, Somebody later said it was supposed to be Satan and I thought, oh my poor mom, if she only knew.

Speaker 3 1:30:28

But I like that better. It was the lamp, yeah, yeah, because you know he's there to guide and help others. You know, and so you know he helps people in transforming their lives. And it also means like extinctive knowledge comes from self-realization. And then you know it may be time to quote withdraw emotionally from people to achieve self-realization. And you know it may be time to quote withdraw emotionally from people to achieve self-realization. And you know kind of quote activities, um, that you consider like all important, maybe take a little break. And also in this position it means like you're starting to realize your karmic contract and you know plan to act accordingly. And, um, it's like you know you're having like a healthy ego and you're starting to understand that. You realize that what you need to teach basically as, um, that ego death is kind of happening is the energy of what I'm kind of getting from a lot more than I'm sharing right now because of time.

Speaker 1 1:31:32

And, speaking of time, in the editing I decided this was a good place to chop the episode. There's definitely more to come and toward the end she invites me in to feedback a little more and I think some really interesting, stimulating hopefully inspiring discussions result from that dialogue. So please tune in for part two. Thank you so much and remember life is story and we can get our hands in the clay, individually and collectively. We can write our own story. See you next time.