Abiding Muse with Author and Singer Angela Van Breemen

Angela Van Breemen’s story is a testament to the magic that happens when you follow your heart. In this episode, Angela shares her inspiring journey from co-owning a dental supply company to diving into her true passions—writing, music, and wildlife rehabilitation. She talks about her work with the Procyon Wildlife Rehabilitation Center and how a baby squirrel ignited her love for wildlife. Angela also gives us a glimpse into her creative world with her debut novel "Past Life's Revenge" and her music album "In the Breeze," showing that it’s never too late to chase your dreams.

Learn more at:
https://angelavanbreemen.ca
https://m.facebook.com/angela.vanbreemen.5
https://www.instagram.com/angela_van_breemen

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Transcript

Embracing Creativity

Speaker 1 0:00

Hello and welcome to Language of the Soul podcast. I'm your host, dominic Domingo.

Speaker 2 0:06

And I'm your co-host, Virginia Grenier.

Speaker 1 0:09

We'd like to invite you to sit back, relax and enjoy some inspiring conversation. Here at Language of the Soul, we know that life is story. Individually, we're the products of the stories we tell about ourselves. Culture is the amalgamation of the stories we tell about ourselves. Culture is the amalgamation of the stories we weave about the human condition. Here's the thing. Individually and collectively, we can write our own story. Thanks for tuning in and joining in the march toward human potential.

Speaker 2 0:44

Before we dive in, I encourage you to subscribe on Buzzsprout or join our Patreon community for exclusive content. Your ratings and reviews help us grow, so please take a moment to share the podcast with friends and family. Every bit of support helps us reach more hearts and minds. Let's get started.

Speaker 1 1:04

Angela Van Bremen is a graduate of the University of Guelph with a degree in management economics and was a co-owner of a dental supply company. After the company was sold, she turned her focus to writing music and volunteering her time at Procyon Wildlife Rehabilitation Center, located in Beaton, ontario. Her first novel, past Life's Revenge, a crime thriller with a twist of spiritualism, was released in July 2024. She belongs to the Wordsmiths based out of Alliston, ontario, is a member of the Crime Writers of Canada and South Simcoe Arts Council. Music and poetry have been an integral part of her life and in April 2024, she launched her debut album In the Breeze. Celtic in nature, it includes three original pieces of music based on her poetry. Angela is a soprano soloist. A firm believer in giving back to the community, she loves to sing for different charitable organizations. She lives in Loretto, ontario. Welcome, angela Van Bremen.

Speaker 3 2:08

Well, thank you so much for that lovely introduction. I truly appreciate that. And it's great to be here.

Speaker 1 2:14

Well, we're lucky to have you. Did I get everything right in the bio, or is there?

Speaker 3 2:18

anything, oh, 100%, that's perfect, absolutely.

Speaker 1 2:23

Oh, right on, Well, using it as a I guess, a springboard. First of all, you're very versatile. I'm sure you heard that. It seems like you have quite a you know, quite a few vehicles of expression, so I'm going to ask you about that in just a minute. But I also see, as with a lot of our guests, there can be a real practical slant to like one's earlier career. But it seems like you're on fire creatively and you're really. I don't want to assume anything, but it seems like you've embraced your creativity and sort of stepped into it. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 3 2:53

Yeah, that's absolutely fair to say and really it's almost coming back full circle for me in a lot of ways, because when I was younger I had those passions with writing poetry, which I never did stop writing the poetry, but I had the passions for wildlife, I had the passion for, for singing, and so I think, I think that I've had the ability now, with having sold the business and it's been 11 wonderful years are pursuing those passions more fully. So it's more like throwing myself into something, but with the knowledge that I've sort of come full circle and return back to my true, to my true, true interest and my true heart of what makes me who I am.

Speaker 1 3:40

Yeah, beautiful. It's like coming home, isn't it?

Speaker 3 3:43

Yeah, absolutely. That's a beautiful way to describe it.

Speaker 1 3:46

It's beautiful and what I mean. It's not a luxury per se, it's a choice, right?

Speaker 3 3:51

It's a choice, yeah.

Speaker 1 3:53

It's a gift to embrace our essence and I relate to a lot of that. You know I adopted a rescue dog over the pandemic, as Virginia knows, and he's my soulmate. But like for years when I was kind of putting my nose to the grindstone at Disney and sure I was doing what I loved, but animals were such a big part of my childhood and I tried, I tried to be a docent at the zoo but it was kind of a long journey to do that. Any volunteer work seemed like something I couldn't fit in while working for you. So you're my idol for having done what you've done. Do you mind talking about your work with the Wildlife Rehabilitation Center just a little bit?

Speaker 3 4:30

Oh no, I'd love to. I got introduced to Procyon Wildlife in 2016. There was a baby squirrel who basically what happened was we have a friend who has an antique shop called the past glories of toad hollow and he in his old location. In the winter time it was for storing cars classic antique cars and in the summer he would convert it over into an antique mall and it was just a glorious transformation. Anyway, we were visiting my husband and I were visiting him and he was just getting things set up for the antique portion because it was summer, and he says it's funny, there's this little squirrel that's been coming around, he's so friendly and I think he's hungry, though, and he's really little.

Speaker 3 5:23

I took one look at the squirrel and I said, well, that's a baby squirrel and I think he's hungry, though, and he's really little. I took one look at the squirrel and I said, well, that's a baby squirrel and I think he is hungry. So I did a little bit of research and I came across Procyon Wildlife and I called them and they said, yeah, that's very likely that this little squirrel is hungry and they don't really approach humans unless they're desperate for food. So anyway, they sort of got me on the right track as far as setting me up. I became a volunteer and I actually ended up fostering this little squirrel and he didn't have any mates that were close enough to his age, because usually we try to have the wildlife socialized with the same age group, if we can do that, as long as they're from the same area and so little Sammy, which is what we call him.

Speaker 1 6:18

I was going to ask the name.

Speaker 3 6:20

The whole time I was fighting my tongue.

Speaker 1 6:22

I love it.

Speaker 3 6:23

Sammy the squirrel. He didn't have any squirrels close enough to his age, so he stayed with me a little while for me to foster him. But when he got old enough to keep his own with other squirrels, I brought him back to Procyon Wildlife and he got introduced to Colin and one other little squirrel.

Speaker 1 6:49

Those are very I have to say, very human names. I've always joked when I did get a dog I was going to name or dogs. I would name them Dave and Barbara.

Speaker 3 6:57

Oh, there you go, there you go, yeah, so anyway, it was a really nice story because he fell within the 15 kilometers, as well as the other two squirrels within where they were located.

Speaker 3 7:12

Under the Ministry of Natural Resources rules we were allowed to actually release them on our property, so that was a really fun event as well.

Speaker 3 7:20

We transported them back in their squirrel box. We have volunteers that build these wooden boxes and so when they are getting used to living outside we have them in outdoor enclosures until they get used to the elements, but that's sort of their home base. So usually what we do is we get squirrels into the box and once they're firmly in the box, then we put mesh on the outside of the opening and take that down and we transport them in the box. And then we climb trees as high as we can go and then we mount the box on the tree and then, when we know everything is safe and secure, then we take off the mesh from the opening and then we sit there and we wait. And so we waited and waited and waited and finally Elmer that was his name. Elmer popped his head out, and then Colin did, Sammy did, and so that was their home base. So basically we transported their home into the woods.

Speaker 1 8:21

And so they lived happily ever after, well, I guess, since you released them on your property, their home into the woods, and so they lived happily ever. After, well, I guess, since you released them on your property does that mean you get to still see Sammy, or no?

Speaker 3 8:32

Well, we have a lot of eastern gray squirrels, which is interesting. The species is called eastern gray squirrels, but there actually can be either gray, which is a beautiful color, but they can be black as well, and so these, we have a lot of black, uh, eastern grays here, and so you know, eventually I really couldn't tell right, um, I couldn't really tell them apart, but it was. It was a really rewarding experience to get them back wild like that it's you're doing good work.

Speaker 1 9:01

I asked you know if you were able to see him from time to time just because I'm a sucker for reuniting. I don't know if either of you have ever seen Born Free and Living Free in the 70s.

Speaker 3 9:11

Yes, yes, definitely.

Speaker 1 9:13

So there's lion videos where you know they'll go out to the savannah and see a lion after five years and they get a big hug because the lion remembers them. Incredible memories.

Speaker 3 9:22

You know we try to avoid that, as romantic as that notion sounds we try to avoid that. So what we do is once any of the wildlife, whether it's raccoons or squirrels or coyotes or fox, it doesn't matter especially deer, as soon as they are weaned off the formula, it's really hands-off completely yeah, right, right.

Speaker 3 9:48

And that's why we also group them by the area that they've been originally found and also by age group, so that they learn how to be with their own species and learn those mannerisms, because they learn from each other through play, and so, yeah, we try to avoid that. So what we don't want is a baby raccoon following us when we've released him. We don't want them habituated to humans and in the case of deer in particular, they actually imprint very easily on humans, and so when we are feeding them by bottle, um, we actually are wearing masks, we're wearing gowns, like everybody is trying to look as nondescript at in the human form as possible, so that those uh animals don't recognize um yeah, it makes sense, so that's what our?

Speaker 3 10:42

volunteers do, and our director, our main director, deborah Spillar. She's devised a system now where we can start feeding the deer. It's a sort of a wooden rack with holes in it and the bottles go through there. So now we can even go that extra step where we don't actually have to hand feed them, which is even better for being hands off. So, yeah, that's the process, so that they don't approach, you know, sometimes you hear about, you know, animals that seem awfully tame and it's because maybe some good hearted soul has raised them when they, because they found an orphan. Now you have these repercussions of them being too brave.

Speaker 1 11:23

Yes, it makes perfect sense. I will say, in my area there are a lot of deer. I taught at Art Center for 20 years and you'd often see deer just grazing on the sculpture garden. You know, or you know you'd be pulling out at night and your headlights pan across and there's just a big buck standing right there in the middle of the access road.

Speaker 3 11:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1 11:42

And it is 100% a matter of they're too domesticated. They have no fear of humans, and that doesn't bode well during hunting season, and in Tehachapi, where my parents live, people actually feed them, so it compounds the problem. In my neighborhood it's coyotes, so every cat or dog is missing an ear or a tail. You know there's a real clash between the natives arguably the coyotes and us, and so there are neighbors who feed the coyotes. It's completely counterintuitive. Oh my goodness, um we we're not popular by these neighbors, yeah.

Speaker 3 12:18

Yeah, no, they wouldn't. They. They don't understand the repercussions. And um, one of the things that I do for procyon, I um, so I I joined them in 016 and um, I re redid their website. They needed an overhaul of the website and I started a newsletter and it's called the procyon post. So I'm the editor of this particular newsletter and one of the messages and we do this once a month. We send out this newsletter and one of our themes is don't feed the wildlife and because of the repercussions of them being too tame, rabbits and and uh, all these, these, these, these prey animals start congregating in one area. It doesn't give them a fair chance if a fox or coyote does come along the scene, because they're easy pickings, right right, like fish in a barrel yeah, exactly, that's a perfect or sitting ducks to keep on the animal theme and also diseases can happen.

Speaker 3 13:24

If seed is left on the ground too long it can cause diseases as well. So really it's better not to feed the wildlife, even as tempting as it is. I mean, they managed without us. Of course one can argue that we've interfered as mankind quite a bit with the ecosystem, and I certainly do appreciate, appreciate that and I just hope that people understand how important coyotes are because they are an apex predator and they are great for keeping rat populations under control, other rodent populations under control. We need these creatures. But people don't understand. They think, well, he got my cat or he got this or that, but keep your cats inside.

Speaker 1 14:06

They look so mangy yeah yeah, well they get a bad rap.

Speaker 3 14:11

That's for sure, yeah, they get a bad rap and we do get a number. One of the biggest things for admissions of fox and coyote is mage, actually, and that's a really serious disease that will kill them, but it's easily treatable. So we have an. We have numerous traps out all the time in order for us to capture these animals, give them a treatment. It takes between five and six weeks and then we can release them again. So, yeah, mange is a big problem. So if if you have wildlife rescue areas places in your area and you spot an animal that you suspect has mange, it wouldn't be a bad idea to solicit help and see if they can capture that animal and give them treatment.

Chasing Dreams and Embracing Creativity

Speaker 1 14:57

You know I'll have to ask about that. I'm actually really glad I brought this up. I didn't expect it to lead to this, but just to give a shout out, my niece actually founded Cougar Conservancy, so again you're in Canada. I don't know how much you know about the Southern California situation, but there you know. Like I said, we've long clashed with, again you know, the. The first residents I would say were encroaching on their territory.

Speaker 1 15:22

So, it's always an adjustment period. So, anyway, there's a little wildlife bridge being built. Do you know about that, Virginia, being a former native? Yeah, across the 101, I think it's not the 134, it's the 101. Anyway, my little niece I have 22 nieces and nephews and I am so proud of her. She founded this organization and she didn't start the land bridge, the wildlife crossing, but she's very involved in publicizing it and getting funding for it that's excellent.

Speaker 3 15:49

The wildlife bridges are essential some of them are tunnels. Some of them are above ground, but they are absolutely phenomenal and there's such a great way of preventing deaths on the highway, because it's just heartbreaking when you see so many creatures. It's heartbreaking because it distracts them.

Speaker 1 16:07

You know we, they all have names p22, p23. Everybody in la knows especially certain characters, right, and yeah, I think p22 was just killed on the freeway and it's heartbreaking, especially for my niece. I worked on lion king. That was my first film at disney and she'll say to this day the reason I'm so passionate about cougar conservancy is Lion King, so I know that one. That one broke her heart for sure.

Speaker 3 16:34

Yeah, it is heartbreaking, definitely.

Speaker 1 16:37

Anyway, well, I love. It seems like when you sold your business, was that a form of retirement that allowed you to get back in touch with animals and your creativity. I'm putting them in one category.

Speaker 3 16:48

Yeah, at first, at first when we sold the company, I was a little bit at loose ends and I didn't throw myself into the into my artistic nature immediately. It probably took me a number of months to sort of adjust to that change. And a number of friends who had businesses asked me if I would do some website design for them and other administrative things. So I did because it was sort of it gave me a little bit of a transition and I do help a number of folks with that, but most still, but mostly it's mostly my focus is on Procyon and my artistic endeavors. But yeah, there was a bit of a transition, but then it.

Speaker 3 17:32

I always loved singing but I never had formal singing lessons because I had an unfortunate uh incident when I was six years old. Um, the, a new school had opened up the year that I went to grade one. There wasn't kindergarten yet and so I got thrown into grade one immediately and one of the teachers was going to put on to put together a choir and I remember my little self walking down this hallway and going into the auditorium and so she blew on. What I later learned was a recorder but I had no idea and she said I should replicate. You know what I heard, and I really didn't understand what she wanted me to do. I felt too intimidated, actually, by the whole process of walking down the hallway and into this gymnasium, and so I made a few croaky sounds and she looked horrified.

Speaker 1 18:25

Oh, no, well, you're not really suitable for the choir. Oh, no, well, she just wanted. I just go back to the classroom.

Speaker 3 18:32

So I did. And I went home that day and I said to my mom I said the teacher says I can't sing and she says that's okay, dear, I don't have a good singing voice either, don't worry about it, it's okay. So my little 60-year-old self sort of had this idea entrenched in my head that I didn't sound good but I still sang. And growing up in the country I was always in the forest singing whatever, because I just loved the feeling of it, because it gave me such joy that I made sure that I sang in remote locations, or so I thought. But you know, then during my university days I met people who were playing guitars and it was kind of fun, and so I would sing a little bit with them, but it was never. It was never anything serious except that it was fun to do so.

Speaker 3 19:26

After he sold the business, it took me about eight or nine months, but I decided that I wanted to take formal singing lessons and so I had a wonderful opera coach by the name of Mark Dubois and he's a lyric tenor. And he's a lyric tenor and so he began training me. He says normally he doesn't take mature students, but he liked what he heard with my voice when I did my audition, and so then during the pandemic, of course, things dropped off. And then I found another lovely music coach. Her name is Cynthia Fox Fuchile and she's an absolute wonderful coach.

Speaker 3 20:07

And what was nice about this? And she's an absolute wonderful coach, and what was nice about this and she's a mezzo soprano absolutely wonderful. And what was nice about this is it's actually good to have different instructors because she, um, she opened up my, um, my horizons in a different way. So it was really fantastic, fantastic. And so on the CD or on the album, she actually sings one of the pieces with me, which was a real honor to have her on the album as well. So it was. It took me a number of months, as I was saying, to get into that groove of saying you can relax, you can let go, you can open up to your artistic side, and it's been marvelous, it's been wonderful.

Speaker 1 20:51

Beautiful, wow. Well, I'm inspired. Just hearing the story, it does seem like I understand how graphic design was sort of an interim because it's still practical, right and it's not as expressive as some of the arts. But I get that to kind of, you know, have to take baby steps and then embrace it fully and accept the calling. I think there's a lot of voices we all have to quiet in order to right follow our muse, so that all makes perfect sense. I do want to say I listened to, I Will Be in the Breeze, is that?

Speaker 3 21:23

the name. Oh, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 21:24

I planned to hear the whole album, but I just listened to that track. And then I found Moon River. Did you know that's on YouTube.

Speaker 3 21:31

Yeah, I put that on. I put up a number of videos during the pandemic because it was tearing people up.

Speaker 1 21:37

Absolutely Well. That's one of my favorite songs of all time. Oh is it? Oh, how cool is that?

Speaker 3 21:42

well, for the same reason, it's so dreamy and it's so the notion of you know going along with the river and just you know exploring that world that's waiting right.

Speaker 1 21:52

It's just yeah it's the most nostalgic song right. It's just all about nostalgia yeah, absolutely because of the movie, and audrey have burn.

Speaker 3 22:02

Of course.

Speaker 1 22:03

But even then I feel like it. Just it was the definition of nostalgia even in that film. Anyway, I love your voice and I don't want to say the wrong thing here, but has anybody ever said that you remind them of Boop I'm losing her name On Taxi Elaine. Do you remember that character, elaine? On Taxi Virginia.

Speaker 2 22:25

I do, but I don't remember the actress. Wow.

Speaker 1 22:27

I had her name already and I love her. Did you guys get Taxi in Canada?

Speaker 3 22:34

We did, but I have to admit I didn't really watch it.

Speaker 1 22:37

Well, she's adorable and it's a compliment. She's so beautiful. I had the little 11-year-old me, had a huge crush on Elaine and her name will come to me.

Speaker 2 22:46

It's Elaine O'Connor.

Speaker 1 22:48

No, no, the character is.

Speaker 3 22:50

Elaine, oh, I'm intrigued.

Speaker 1 22:52

She's great. Yeah, I'll get back to you. Okay, don't worry, it'll come to me. It's, you know that? Anyway, in the spirit of our podcast and the spirit of the law of attraction and manifestation, I love the idea that actually the reason you can't find your keys right is because you have internalized that belief that, oh, the keys are lost. The keys are lost If you just stopped, that neural circuit of the keys are lost. Your subconscious knows exactly where the keys are. That happened this morning. This poor what was it? Amazon delivery guy was cussing Bobby and I went out for a walk and he was walking back and forth looking in the bushes and cussing, and I go, what are you looking for, dude? And he had lost his key. Oh my gosh, so like he could lose his job, right, if he takes his time. And I just had that thought this morning, like, actually it's the neural circuit that blinds you, right, it will not yield the information until you start thinking about something else. Okay, but her name will come to me. I'll pipe up later in the interview.

Speaker 3 23:57

Yeah, that's you know. Your brain just has to process it for a moment or two.

Speaker 1 24:02

Yeah, or just let it go right and then germinate on it. Mary Lou Henner, that's it. Okay, check her out. Anyway, I did love your video and you're very charming as a presence. I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 3 24:16

Thank you, that's so kind.

Speaker 1 24:19

I relate to what you said too about having different teeth. My sister's a vocal instructor, but I also have taught in the arts for 20 years. I founded the entertainment track at my alma mater and just am lucky enough to have witnessed different relationships with the creative process and I call them different artistic journeys, and I keep in touch with my students and I see what becomes of them. And I've long said that it's fine to get under the wing of a mentor right for a while and really buy hook, line and sinker, whatever it is they have to offer. But man being judicious is the name of the game, especially in the arts. Because again, for example, in figure drawing, some figure instructors will say oh it's structure, structure, structure, structure and anatomy.

Speaker 1 25:02

Then another instructor will say, oh, it's structure, structure, structure, structure and anatomy. Then another instructor will say, no, no, it's all about expression, capture the spirit of the pose, and every stroke can contribute to that spirit. And it's kind of like this war waged between structure and anatomy, and then the gesture, the expression. But you know what? It's somewhere in the middle, right and really magical drawing is somewhere in the middle. So you do see, almost this cult-like, I don't know. These different instructors have their minions and they never really explore anything else. So I'm a big fan of, yeah, being judicious and exposing yourself to a lot of different sensibilities within your given craft.

Speaker 1 25:42

And then, arriving at your own approach, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 25:45

You know what that is so true?

Speaker 3 25:46

because both instructors are very oriented toward opera, because my voice has a lot of operatic elements to it, but I'm also interested and I do sing in other genres, and so for me I wanted to expand that more, and so what I loved about cynthia in particular is she helped me explore singing in different uh, in different styles. And what was so fun about doing this album is, um, a gentleman by the name of marchie markel from red egg studio. He produced the album for me and and he suggested you know, that's very operatic the way you're singing this particular Celtic song, but would you consider perhaps, you know, lightening the tone and singing it in a, you know, in a different, like more pop style even and so we experimented quite a bit with a number of songs on the album, and that was so much fun for me, because you don't want to get in a rut.

Speaker 3 26:51

And it's about exploring different expressions with the voice or art or whatever it may be.

Speaker 1 26:57

Yeah, I was kind of referring to technique, but you're absolutely right, like genre and format and so much follows, because I think you did arrive in new territory. There's, you know, celtic. What's the female version of Celtic Thunder? I forget the name of that group.

Speaker 2 27:12

Are you talking about, not Celtic women?

Speaker 1 27:14

Yeah, celtic women, I guess. Anyway, there's a lot that has come before. Right, but when you find your own fusion of Celtic or pop and classical, that's where the magic is.

Speaker 3 27:25

So I think you have yeah, who's a two-time Juno nominee and his music's really amazing too, because he has this blend of sort of a Celtic element to it and reggae, and it is the most amazing. Wow, my brain just exploded it's awesome, so working with these individuals was just so much fun. I really had the time of my life with that. It was amazing.

Speaker 1 28:08

Yeah, the creative right Just working on anything with synergy and group projects. There's just so much synergy there.

Speaker 2 28:17

And.

Speaker 1 28:18

I'm addicted and I'm addicted to creating, so I'm with you. I feel like you might like Kate Bush. Are you familiar with Kate Bush?

Speaker 3 28:27

Not necessarily, Maybe if I'd heard the music. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 28:31

Well, she's a great example of somebody who is trained classically, so she has a rather operatic tone. As early as 78, she came out with Wuthering Heights. You probably know that song.

Speaker 3 28:41

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 28:43

Yeah, and her whole career has been using her operatic voice in a pop context, but it's it's also got celtic, a lot of celtic instrumentation. So I loved your arrangements and your instrumentation because I'm a kate bush fan oh okay, I'll have to check that out more thoroughly that sounds cool.

Speaker 2 29:00

I love when um different genres kind of blend together to create, you know, a new variation to something too. Because when you like someone like me, I like very diverse music. I don't have one particular genre, um genre that I just gravitate to and only listen to, and so when I hear um kind of that crossover, it really draws me in because it's something new and fresh and I just feel like it kind of gets it hits, I think, deeper areas of you know, for me at least, when I listen to music, um, it's what I find, that's like.

Speaker 2 29:39

The way I express what moods I'm feeling is by the music. I play.

Speaker 3 29:44

That makes sense.

Speaker 1 29:45

Yeah. Do you think the same applies in literature? Do you feel like genre blends are where the new territory lies?

Speaker 3 29:52

Yeah, I don't see why not. I think that maybe my book is even a good example, because it has a lot of elements of crime in it, but it also is bringing in a supernatural element, to the extent that the characters in my story use the paranormal to help solve a mystery that's really plaguing them.

Speaker 1 30:19

Yeah, I didn't actually intend that transition, but you're absolutely right. One of the descriptions I read said a crime novel with a twist of spiritualism I like that Correct?

Unearthing Inspirations Through Time

Speaker 3 30:27

Yeah, yeah, and to me the concept of reincarnation and past lives is such a natural one, so I found it comfortable for me to blend that into my story and it's sort of a seamless like to me. I don't really I find that it's a seamless transition by incorporating that into a crime, what is essentially a crime novel. But yeah, I like that, for sure yeah and for me as a reader.

Speaker 1 30:58

I'm a writer but I'm also a reader, of course, and I do tend to respond to genre blends, I guess because they're not as formulaic, right, they're not as bound by the tropes of a given genre or format. So, like with horror movies, I always thought, yeah, I'm not a big fan of slashers, obviously. But when I was forced, I was asked to co-write a screenplay and I was hesitant. But I thought, you know, I have like certain horror movies over the years, and it's always the ones with metaphysical overtones, or do you know what I mean Like spiritual overtones? It's not just the cut and dry slashers. So, anyway, I love, I guess I would ask you then. We are jumping into this now. So I want to ask you what inspired the novel, and I'm guessing it is your view of the relationship between the metaphysical and the what every day? I'm guessing the beliefs were there before you formulated this concept.

Speaker 3 31:55

Yeah, since childhood actually. So this, the how this, this book came about as the sort of a curious thing and again, sort of talking about that full circle that I was alluding to earlier, where you're coming back to your roots. So, basically, growing up as a kid, my mom and dad were always inviting psychics and mediums over and it was completely natural and normal to talk about past lives and and supernatural experiences and past life regressions and reincarnation, like it was just really spoken about.

Speaker 3 32:29

And so that really was rooted really in my whole being as I grew up. When I was in my early 20s, I had an idea for a book and, as I explained, I've been writing poetry since a young age and I've never stopped writing poetry. But what was interesting is I thought in my early 20s that I would write a book and I started this book actually, and life got busy. I got a full-time job, I met my future husband, and so things got busy and distracting and I put that it was about a third done. I just put the manuscript away in a drawer and literally forgot about it. And so, fast forward to December of 2022, my husband had just published his first novel. His name's Peter Ponsa and his book is called Outfoxed, and I was really impressed that he did that.

Speaker 3 33:33

And I was cleaning out my drawers in December of 022, and I came across the manuscript again and I thought, instead of shoving it back in the drawer, why don't you at least look at it? Why don't you at least read it? I said to myself. So I sat there and I read it and I thought, well, you know there's a lot of change, because I don't like the wording so much, but the concept I really like. So I started between Christmas and New Year. I started rewriting the part that I had already written like 35 years ago, and then I got to the end of that section and thought, oh my gosh, what do I do now? Like my guide was gone Because it was new territory and I just sat there and I meditated and I thought you know what, let's plot out the next third of the book. So I plotted out the next third of the book, wrote furiously, and then, when I got to that section, I plotted out the final third of the book. I was done by the end of May.

Speaker 1 34:37

Wow.

Speaker 3 34:38

And then I had a few trusted. I belong to the writers group which you had mentioned when you introduced me, the wordsmiths so I had a number of friends who Bader read for me from the writers group and also a very dear friend she is a published author, diane Bader, and she did an edit of my book and made suggestions, valuable suggestions. And then it was time for me to go into the studio and I knew that it would be good to just put that manuscript aside and I knew I would be busy with my music. So I literally forgot about my manuscript until December of this past year and then I felt now I have the time, I'm finished the studio work, now I have the time to go through any edits and I made a really strict edit of it myself and then I had one more editor go through it and then I was ready to publish it. So that's sort of the journey. So it was an idea that originated quite some time ago but, um, I'm sure glad I never threw that manuscript away must have been only something saying don't do that, don't do it, leave it maybe

Speaker 3 35:55

maybe. So that's, that's how that originate originated. But I got really excited with the whole story and the concept. So my two main characters they are going to be actually in the next book because this is going to be a series. They are going to be solving crimes using the paranormal. So yeah, I'm pretty pumped up about it. I've written a lot of it so far I've just it's summer and so it's a little distracting. I have a big garden and big property that my husband and I do a lot of work outside in the summer months, so. But I'm anxious to get back to it, but whenever I have ideas I jot them down. Actually, I record them in my phone.

Speaker 1 36:35

I don't write them down.

Speaker 3 36:37

It's quicker to get the ideas by recording it, but yeah, so that's the history behind how that book evolved.

Speaker 1 36:45

Beautiful. I love the idea that you know, in my opinion, in the spirit of the podcast, if something's inspired, it will transcend right and it'll stand the test of time and you'll see the merit in it decades later if it was inspired in the first place, decades later. If it was inspired in the first place, my mom has there was a little short story, I guess it was at the time that always sat in the cupboard above our refrigerator throughout the 70s, 80s, 90s, until we moved out of that house and she finally, like you, dusted it off at the age of 65, and it became a children's book and she learned Photoshop in order to illustrate it herself. It was so inspiring and, I will say, my first young adult novel. That's how I Met you, virginia the Nameless Prince.

Speaker 1 37:33

I started writing same thing, started writing it for my first niece. She's 43 now, with three kids of her own. I have 22 nieces and nephews. They're all grown up. I have great nieces and nephews. So when I finally dusted it off and finished it, I dedicated it to not the little girl that I started writing it for, but the 43 year old and said it's never too late, right.

Speaker 3 37:56

No, no, it's not, and I think it's a good lesson for us all that, no matter what you write, you know, even if it's not complete, whatever you write, keep it save it. Absolutely. But also I think those years gave me more insight as well, and so that core idea, it was easy to develop it and I think that, having waited instead of writing it at the time, I think the book benefited from that time. From that time that I waited, I think it became something more than it would.

Speaker 1 38:44

Well, I'm guessing your, your understanding of human nature and the world we live in has more perspective, right? So you some I relate to that too Like sometimes I wasn't ready to write something, I thought I was, but it wasn't the right time, and then later you have the perspective to write it.

Speaker 2 38:59

Exactly, and I was gonna say, I think, like you know, with you slowing down and kind of you know, going into other avenues as well, um, you know, and then, of course, tying it back to like how you're, you know, your youth growing up and having more of that you know, having the mediums and all you know and people coming in and talking about the different paranormal kind of stuff. As a kid I I think you had a better, you know view to look at it at that point in time, I know like when I first started writing, the first story I wrote was actually my.

Speaker 2 39:32

it was. It was based on my dad. It was actually a true, a relative. It was a true story with a few, of course, you know, adaptations to it, but it was my dad's story about how he got into flying as a kid and I had written as a short story to submit to get into the writing program that I went to to learn to become a writer and I went back and dusted off. It actually got published in a children's magazine years later.

Speaker 1 39:57

What a tribute to your dad.

Speaker 2 39:59

Oh, lovely. So it's interesting, you know, like hearing you both talk about I kind of like you know, kind of your first you know steps into writing. I mean, I think we all kind of start with, as they always say, with something you know and is, you know, close to you.

Speaker 1 40:15

But you have to come back at it later if you don't, if you don't mind, I want to dovetail off of that again back to the the spirit of the podcast. Hang in there, angela. I do think we'll all have something to say about this. But uh, anya, if you remember that Virginia kind of talked about, she's a writing coach and she talks about how, really, when you write something at 21 and then, let's say, later you want to write your memoirs, so you're including essays from right when you were 21 and you're now 56.

Revisiting Past Lives and Solving Murders

Speaker 1 40:44

My sister and I have both experienced this. How much do you mess with that voice, whether it was naive or lacked perspective, do you mess with it? Because I find myself cleaning up stuff that I wrote at 21 and it just has a completely different worldview. So she was kind of saying you know, it's a real art getting it to live under one umbrella but honoring your limitations. At that time I noticed when I read your book, angela, it's very contemporary and I love meaning, I love the technology, I love the texting, I love, I think, one of the characters, even in just the first two chapters, didn't they Google something? And I just loved how contemporary it felt. Did you think about that much or did it just happen because we live in 2024?

Speaker 3 41:26

No, I absolutely thought about it, and I did this deliberately. One because we live in this age, so I wanted it to be contemporary. But also, that was one of the things that you know reading a 35 plus year old manuscript, I was realizing, oh my goodness, like we don't pick up the phone to do these things anymore, we don't you know. I just wanted it to be contemporary, so that was part of some of the cleanup that I did. I wanted it to be, I wanted it to be relevant to today. I didn't want to write something from, you know, 35 odd years ago.

Speaker 1 42:03

Well, just some feedback though.

Speaker 3 42:04

Deliberate.

Speaker 1 42:06

Yeah Well, just a tiny bit of feedback. The beauty of that is it doesn't just feel relevant or contemporary, but it makes it immediate, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 42:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1 42:15

I feel like I'm in that world.

Speaker 3 42:17

Precisely, and I had fun doing that. Actually, like, I'm going to be reading a chapter I understand a little bit later and, um, you'll you'll see that I've incorporated that in this particular chapter as well where, um, they've learned something pretty dramatic. And what do we do when we learn something? Or we want to verify, we all google it, or we look it up later because we want to know more, we want to learn more, and so you know, we don't head to the library.

Speaker 3 42:44

You know, shuffle through micro feature whatever we use the technology that's available, and so you're. I love that word. You chose immediate. Yes, that's very good.

Speaker 2 42:56

Well, let's say, and I'll say even with with that, because I I only got to read the first chapter of the book um, just because of things that I've been dealing with so I didn't have time to really dive in like I wanted to. But I'm a huge fan of jim butcher who um did kind of similar to what you're doing, but there are different aspects to it. But um blends I don't know if you guys know who he is, but anyways he has the series, the dresden files, which is a wizard who's a private investigator, to give you an idea. So again, kind of delves into that paranormal spiritualism aspect and um, but what I love is how you know, like, like donald was saying, how you've got that contemporary element but you're able to bring in that spiritualism and how you know old and ancient that is, and it just blends seamlessly and so it does draw you in and yet you've got basically like modern day technology, you know, tied in with you know these long time cultural, deep rooted belief systems at the same time, which is just beautiful.

Speaker 1 44:09

Yeah, I'll jump in. I those are my favorite kinds of stories where you juxtapose the old and the new and it really makes you think, doesn't it about what is universal in the human experience and again stands the test of time, and it just gives it more resonance, if. Does that make sense to tell a contemporary story? What was the one with, oh, my brain and names today? Uh, oh, my god, there's a million, but there's a movie that is kind of a cult classic and I can't think of her name, but it's you know, or even, I guess, uh, lestat, right, the vampire stories.

Speaker 1 44:51

When you bring in generations, or even in Wuthering Heights, how there's a resonance to the fact that it spans so many generations. Scarlet letter does the same thing. You kind of see the metaphysical threads that tie past, present and future together, and that's the best way I can say it, because I can't think of the name of that damn movie. But I'm going to take this opportunity. I would love to hear your excerpt if you don't mind, angela, but can I just read the book jacket blurb as a way of yeah, if you don't mind, I'm just going to read it, I'll introduce the chapter.

Speaker 3 45:18

Actually, That'd be cool.

Speaker 1 45:19

Okay, yeah, just for our listeners. I'll do my best, and then you can share an excerpt. So here's what I've got from the interwebs, as we said, because that's where we get all of our information these days. Since childhood, david Harris has suffered from debilitating nightmares. He sought the advice of psychiatrists and other health professionals, without obtaining any relief. When he meets an attractive young psychic, emma Jackson, she encourages him to seek the help of her friend, anna Tungsten, a hypnotherapist. During an emotionally charged past life regression, david learns he was murdered in his most recent reincarnation, 30 years earlier. When David realizes his murderer is still alive, he cannot move on and builds a new life with Emma until he has exacted revenge and stopped the murderer from killing again. Hey, yeah, so do you feel like sharing an excerpt?

Speaker 3 46:15

Yeah, Actually, I'm going to read from chapter 12, because chapter 12 is in the aftermath of David having had this past life regression, and so the title of the chapter is called George Samuel Larson. David opened his eyes. A nagging feeling told him that something of extreme importance had occurred, but he could not quite grasp what it was. He was certain he had seen the eyes during the session. He heard Anna say wake up, David, but he was too weak and groggy to answer right away. He saw Anna's worried eyes and said something happened, didn't it? Yes, we had a breakthrough, but you gave us a scare, didn't it? Yes, we had a breakthrough, but you gave us a scare. What happened? You relived the death of your former life. It was traumatic and I had trouble bringing you out of the trance. Did we learn anything worthwhile, David? You were named George Larson and either worked or lived here in New Elgin in your previous life. She paused. You died at the age of 32 on December 15, 1993.

Speaker 3 47:27

David stared ahead and said so you really think my dreams are not just nightmares but actual memories from a past life? Yes, I do. Her expression was thoughtful. It's unusual, though I do, Her expression was thoughtful. It's unusual, though. What is, asked Emma? Normally souls don't reincarnate so soon after death, Unless unless David swallowed the lump forming in his throat. The trauma was so great the soul needed to return sooner. David interrupted. I was murdered, wasn't I? Yes, I think so. I'll review the recording and prepare a transcript for you, but my impression is that you saw, and may even have known, your killer. This is a lot to process. I'd recommend you review the transcripts and then we can schedule another session, I wonder.

Speaker 3 48:23

David looked back and forth between Anna and Emma, his face pinched with concern. Yes, asked Anna, If this is all real and I was murdered 30 years ago, there's a good chance the killer could still be alive True, said Anna, and still be relatively young, possibly still in his 50s, maybe even early 60s. What are you thinking, asked Emma. Hang on a sec. David grabbed his iPhone and typed in his query. Just found this website called Canada Cold Cases. It's a database of unsolved murders and disappearances. Is there a search tool, asked Emma, unable to hide her excitement. Yep, Typing in George Larson. Oh, my god, I've got a hit. His face turned white. He turned the display around for both Anna and Emma to read, and Emma to read Canada Cold Cases George Samuel Larson. Updated March 15, 2023.

Speaker 3 49:35

On the evening of Wednesday, December 15, 1993, between the hours of 6 and 7, 32-year-old officer George Samuel Larson of the New Elgin Police Service was shot in the head. He was off duty at the time and was killed en route to an appointment with his lawyer, Liam Foster of the law firm Foster Harris. His murder is believed to be a completely random act of violence. In the almost 30 years since his death, there have been no suspects and this case remains unsolved. His sister, Sarah Marie Larson, and this case remains unsolved. His sister, Sarah Marie Larson, says George's untimely death led to my mother's suicide in 1994. The killer not only took my brother's life, but also my mother's. If you have any information relating to this case, please contact Detective Brian Grant of the New Elgin Police Service.

Speaker 3 50:20

What Isn't that the name of your law firm? Emma said with a mixture of awe and fear. Exactly, David's complexion remained pasty white. They mentioned Liam Foster. He's my uncle. This is bizarre. Emma's face had lost its color. It's all so tragic. Sarah lost her mom too, said Anna. Look, there's a picture of George, said Emma, pointing at the screen. Can you enlarge it? David expanded the image. With his right index finger and thumb, His face blanched even further. He looks familiar. Not unusual for you to recognize your former self', said Anna. "'odd Samuel's my middle name too.

Speaker 1 51:06

His voiceless tones'" wow, yeah, that's my review. Wow, virginia, jump in if you want. But I just want to say I think you chose the perfect excerpt because that was the intriguing. The most intriguing thing for me and just reading the synopsis and then starting the book was, I guess over the years I've kind of thought I don't know much about the academic views on reincarnation or even the philosophical tradition behind it. Don't know much. But I've often thought that like, hmm, how quickly are we reincarnated? And what an interesting concept to think your murderer is still walking around.

Speaker 1 51:45

I feel, I feel like the older I get, the more feasible. That is right, that I don't know. I'm just fascinated with, again, the links between past, present and future, and that excerpt, too to me, illustrated our interconnectivity, how our lives and our spiritual journeys are all intertwined. I had an office mate at Disney whose brother committed suicide, and of course it affected the entire family for the duration of their lives.

Speaker 2 52:11

So the idea that a suicide resulted from this horrific murder just illustrates our interconnectivity, if that makes sense yes, it does yeah it was to say it makes me think about how, um, you know the chain of events, basically that we don't, we don't realize the decisions we make, how they cascade out into other people's lives.

Speaker 2 52:35

That are, you know the interconnectivity, and then you know, you add to that, you know if you, wherever you are, you know on a spiritual level, you know that as well, because I know, I always so, for example. So here's just kind of a fun tidbit. So my best friend and I, we've known each other since we were literally fresh out of diapers, but our parents all went to college together before any of them married and, of course, had us, and so it's just, we never think about that until we get together and our and we're, you know, visiting with our families and also, and our parents are like, oh yeah, back when we were in college, and you know, and and we're like, oh know, visiting with our families, and also our parents are like, oh yeah, back when we were in college and you know and we're like, oh, that's right, you guys all went to college together and that's right, you know.

Speaker 2 53:20

Because we forget that. And so, my best friend, I always joke because when people meet her.

Speaker 1 53:26

The thing is, it's still playing out.

Speaker 2 53:28

Yes, like our parents baggage. Yeah.

Speaker 1 53:34

Even intergenerational trauma just has its way with you, even if it's unexamined. Anyway, this is I want you to keep going, but this is what I write about is all the baggage that's not talked about, but it still has its way with you, right, especially the secrets right, yeah, exactly like secrets will come out.

Speaker 2 53:46

But my friend and I always joke because everybody's like well, how now, now we've gotten to the point as we've gotten older, you know, now that we're in our, you know, entering our 50s, is we just like people like, well, how are you guys know each other, like, are you talking about here on the planet?

Speaker 2 53:58

or like back when we were in the womb, because I mean you think about, like our parents were all hanging out and in the same you know inner circles with each other way before we're born. So we're like. I don't know, maybe we were always destined to be friends, who, or?

Speaker 1 54:12

you're even overhearing stuff. Through the membrane, you're absorbing the energetic content, the vibration, the thoughts and feelings.

Speaker 2 54:22

Yeah. So it's interesting how you know when you think about past lives, you know, or reincarnation, I mean, even if you don't subscribe to that belief, I mean just when you just think about it in general, or if you subscribe to it. I mean it's really kind of interesting, like how far out do those tentacles reach each other?

Speaker 1 54:41

Angela, do you have anything to say, or did we take this somewhere completely way out in the weeds?

Speaker 3 54:47

Not at all. I was really enjoying it because part of what I do address in this book is soul groups, and there's this belief that people reincarnate as soul groups and so you'll have, maybe one time someone might be your brother, the next time your mother, your mother, um. But the idea is that you sort of make plans, um in the in between world, um to to see what you can learn, how you can better yourself and how you can interact with certain individuals in a more positive way. So it's sort of like trying to get it right. That's the way I've always looked at it as far as reincarnation goes, and so I believe that groups of souls do reincarnate together and I think, virginia, and what you described, I think it's very highly likely that you were meant to be with these friends that while they were still in the womb. I think this is destiny. Whether it's from reincarnation or something else, it definitely, to me, is something that was preordained or predestined. I'm certain of it.

Speaker 2 55:59

Yeah, and I do believe that and it's interesting you made that comment about you know soul groups, because my mom and I, you know, because we're a mother and daughter, we've had our differences. And she always tells me I don't know if you're right about this, but I've told her my whole entire life that if she wasn't my mom in this life, she was my best friend in another life. And she always laughs at me because we're very opposite of each other. But but that's just because we're mom and daughter. So of course we you know daughter roles. Yeah, her and I really do connect and I really I've always felt that that her and I in another life we're best friends, you know.

Speaker 3 56:45

Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me, because the whole idea is that we do make plans together and and we learn from each other.

Speaker 3 56:54

We learn how to deal with certain relationships and uh, and I also, and I also think that some of the more advanced souls, um, are very comfortable being in either gender, and I'm really beginning to wonder nowadays if there's more um understanding about, uh, people who associate with both genders in the same body, and I've been beginning to think is it because they've lived so many lives that they are so comfortable with, uh, associating with both genders that this, is this, becomes a very normal and comfortable for them? And and I wonder if that's one of the reasons? And if it is, isn't that awfully nice because it just means that we can sort of expand our expression and our understanding of, instead of, you know, so he's, he's a guy, that's what guys do or she, you know, that's what women do like, for heaven's sakes, you know that's typical. Isn't it nice if we begin to embrace what is likely a part of all of us, which is understanding both sexes?

Speaker 1 58:01

Well, it's funny you would mention that because one of my questions that I actually have written down in front of me is I wanted to talk a little bit about writing from a male protagonist's perspective. Out of what you just said, I would say there is a convergence going on in a lot of areas. In our dialectic, in our evolution right, there's a merging of left and right brain sensibilities. Hopefully, if we can make it through this impact well here in the United States?

Speaker 2 58:29

I won't say too much.

Speaker 1 58:30

but if we can make it over this hump, I do think we're on the path toward convergence. But I also think that that's what it is to be an artist in some ways is to have access to the whole of human experience, whether you subscribe to Carl Jung or the reservoir of archetypes, or collective unconscious or whatever, that's what it is largely to be a writer.

Speaker 2 58:51

If.

Speaker 1 58:51

Emily Bronte could write Wuthering Heights without much worldly experience. That tells you we can tap into the whole of human experience.

Speaker 1 59:00

So, yeah, so I love that. I also really related to to this idea of contracts. You know that we do have spiritual contracts with people or agreements, and I am you are the first person I've heard really say it. I've always said, yeah, there's clusters of consciousness that are attracted to each other for whatever reason. And, yeah, I've gone as far as to say maybe it's unfinished business or baggage that needs to be reconciled, but I love hearing you say it. So I guess, if you don't mind, I mean anything you have to say about this idea that we I've been told I write well for women and I mean it's easy. I'm a gay man but I'm very complimented when people say that I do think that's what it is to be a writer. Did you have any challenges? And I will say I don't know the narrative mode of your novel yet. I'm only two chapters in and I do believe the second chapter seems to be from her point of view. Is it omniscient or are you trying to stick in his head?

Speaker 3 59:58

Just because I'm not that far into it yet Um I, when I'm writing particular chapters, there may be situations where I'm writing from different characters points of view which is why I'm writing in third person.

Speaker 1 1:00:12

Okay, there you go.

Speaker 3 1:00:13

Um person. You'd asked about the protagonist being a male protagonist, and I didn't find it that difficult to do. I found, growing up it was rather isolated and I really looked up towards my dad. There were no brothers in our family. I was the oldest and I was a tomboy, and so I didn't really subscribe to a lot of the girly things that you know during that age. You know you know makeup and you know primping and looking pretty. It didn't really matter to me, it wasn't important.

Speaker 3 1:00:49

What was important was, you know, being outside working with my dad chopping wood, and we had a lot of conversations as we were growing up, and some of them when I was in my teens and early 20s.

Speaker 3 1:01:00

We had some pretty mature conversations where my dad really started to show me the male point of view, the way he would feel about certain things you know on a deep level, and I really appreciated that because I felt that at that point my dad was no longer my dad but my friend too, and so it was really formative for me.

Speaker 3 1:01:26

And also I always found that, you know, if I was with a group of people, I always enjoyed the camaraderie and the joking around with the guys a little bit more, and so I think that, um, I think that it was easy for me to sort of absorb how they felt, their feelings, how they looked at things, how they behaved, and so I, I hope that David is a credible character. I believe I've, I believe I show his uncertainties and his vulnerabilities, but also his strengths, and I hope that I have accomplished a good voice for my protagonist. But I think the influence of knowing, of being friends with, having males as friends on a platonic level and being able to talk with them and my dad was really the first one that I interacted with I think that that has given me a good, solid perspective into, into writing a male character.

Speaker 1 1:02:28

Beautiful. Yeah, I don't think when you need to defend it at all. I just was wondering if you know there was a learning curve or if it puts you in touch with anything you hadn't thought about. But that sounds like't know.

Tapping Into Universal Creative Energy

Speaker 3 1:02:39

I guess you pull it from the etheric you know, you pull it from the etheric and they say I am here, this is me, this is how I think, and so they become real people. And so I think, once that happens, you can be true to their characters, because you're not nothing's forced, it's just flowing from, from the universal intelligence, it's just coming to you and so you know that, that you instinctively know that that's how that character should be, and I've had two characters now in the first book. Um, when I finished reading this chapter to you, I mentioned to contact a detective, brian Grant. Well, I thought that he would be a very minor character and no matter what I did, he kept stepping forward and saying I am here, listen to me.

Speaker 3 1:03:45

I need to do this Give me airtime here so I can help Emma and David with their search for the killer better. So listen up, it's kind of funny. And in my second book, in my first book, I have a character a barista, the name is Megan.

Speaker 1 1:04:10

And Megan is a they them, that's how.

Speaker 2 1:04:12

Megan associates.

Speaker 3 1:04:18

I met her. Oh, you read about Megan For heaven's sakes. Megan in the second book has said I'm here, I want a bigger role. Okay, Step forward. So it's interesting. So I think they kind of tell you. I don't know why, but they step forward and they say I'm here, Listen to me. This is what I need to do to make this story work.

Speaker 1 1:04:36

Virginia jump in because I have a transition.

Speaker 2 1:04:38

I was going to say that totally resonates with me, because I love that you've identified that delicate dance between the gender representation and having it come out very authentically, and to me that just goes into the whole. It's not about archetypes, it's really about fully, you know, realizing the individual and and their struggles and their vulnerabilities and the fact that there is duality you know in in everybody, in in real life.

Speaker 3 1:05:05

So the fact that that resonates in your characters is just phenomenal oh, thank you, and yes, you're right, there is a duality of this in all of us and I think the sooner we understand and acknowledge that, then we will understand. We'll have a better understanding for our fellow human beings.

Speaker 1 1:05:23

Yeah, the universal is where it's at right, especially in art and literature. We're trying to tap into the universal and I've said this on the podcast before, like again, being a gay man like I'm just not invested in the war between the sexes, it bores me, frankly. So I do often offer a unique perspective from a gay man's point of view. I like to mix it up and just say, hey, you know, in the gay community, by the way, dot dot, dot, like. And I just think interconnectivity is where it's at, the merging that we talked about earlier is is the path we're on.

Speaker 3 1:06:01

So I get frankly bored by the war between the sexes. And men are from mars, women are from venus. Oh, I hate it too. I think it's ridiculous. I you know whenever I hear that, or you know, especially, especially you're. Oh well, you know guys, they don't help around the house, or you know, they don't know how to drive, or you know all the stupid stereotypical tropes that you hear.

Speaker 1 1:06:19

I hate that. Whenever I hear this is not true, yes. Well, whenever I hear it's something that does kind of ring true, I'll hear one of those. I guess stereotypes about men are dot, dot, dot and. I think well, actually women are too, it just looks different on them. So every time I hear a generalization, I can go okay, here's the female version of that.

Speaker 1 1:06:41

Women are catty, then I'm like, okay, let me tell you the male version of that. We are fucking sorry. We're human, we all right, even like when people say, oh, the French are dot dot dot. Well, I went, I've lived there and I would walk away going. You know what? We're all just human. We do have the same range of emotions and desires, and sure, there are cultural values that allow for things to be expressed differently, but largely we're all human.

Speaker 1 1:07:08

But I want to steer back a little bit to the spirit of the podcast. Just in some things that I heard just now and it just seemed like a great transition I think you hinted at again I don't want to put words in your mouth but this idea that, yes, inspiration comes from maybe universal intelligence or collective consciousness, and that's what the creative process is. Yes, so a moment ago, when you said my characters take on a life of their own, I wanted to say two things. Virginia, you know, on this podcast it's come up a lot how Madeline Lingle will say oh, you know, I didn't expect for that character to die, but they just had to. So that happens in my writing all the time. They tell you right, like you're saying. They tell you the role they want to play, and so I totally relate to that.

Speaker 1 1:07:57

But also, oh, you know you are writing a sequel. I think you said it's going to become a series. Yes, it is. Yeah, I feel the same way about my young adult novel became, there was a sequel and now it's become a trilogy. And sure, the third book is as yet unwritten. But it became a trilogy precisely because I fell in love with not just the world I created but the characters. I am spending time with them, I'm communing with them when I honor them by writing about them you feel like they're your children.

Speaker 1 1:08:28

Am I putting? Did you say that or is that?

Speaker 3 1:08:30

my, I don't think I did, but um, there's certainly. There's certainly close friends. Some of them are not close friends, shouldn't be friends, but they're there too.

Speaker 1 1:08:42

I just feel like I'm spending time with them and it's comfort food for me to step back into those worlds and spend time with those characters. Yeah, so, uh, do you mind talking a little bit more about your understanding of this? Again, I don't want to use my terminology, but again in your, I think, form that you filled out, you did say you feel the creative process is a way of tapping into. I'm using the word universal intelligence, how would you put that?

Speaker 3 1:09:15

Well, yes, I actually often use that expression universal intelligence as well and what I believe is that if we quiet our minds, whether it's through meditating or walking in a forest, a lot of my ideas come through. You know, working in the garden or walking in the forest, if you just quiet your mind, there's so much that just comes to you and and I'm I'm not even sure if it's me writing it sometimes, or thinking it or or a melody that comes through. It just is there something, something beautiful and energy that we don't always understand on this level, but is definitely real and is palpable if we take the time to listen and feel it. And yeah, so yeah, I truly believe that that there is a higher power that we can tap into in order for the good, and I suppose if someone was oriented a certain way, they could could tap into that power in a maybe not so lovely way also.

Speaker 1 1:10:19

But for me.

Speaker 3 1:10:20

I prefer to use that beautiful energy for good and for creation, and so I know that it's there If I take the time to be peaceful and quiet. It's there for me and it's there for everybody and quiet.

Navigating Creative Instincts and Destructive Paths

Speaker 1 1:10:37

it's there for me and it's there for everybody. Yes, virginia, I feel like you might have something to say, but I, the way I relate to that is, yeah, creative life is the creative process. Right, god is the most tapping into the divine, the creative process is the most divine thing one can engage in. And life is create, right, right, we're creating our own lives all day, every day, and yes so.

Speaker 1 1:10:56

But I, you know, traditionally I don't put much thought into creative instincts as evil. But I had to really put some thought into it at one point because there are those who feel it can be used for good or evil and I, I guess I had to think, well, yeah, look at all those, look at nuclear bombs, for example that is creativity in action, but it's been hijacked somehow.

Speaker 1 1:11:22

So I find it interesting. Do you want to talk a little bit about how one can be misguided in their creative efforts, or how can I? Evil is a silly word, right, but it can feel destructive as opposed to contributing to our evolution. And my way of putting everything you just said, I totally you're speaking our language. Put it that way.

Speaker 1 1:11:43

But I guess I feel like it's. If you want to be real empirical about it and put on a Newtonian cap, I would say we are being called upon by evolution, it's in our DNA to be our best selves and to contribute our unique gifts back into the collective, just in terms of propagation, right On a real biological level. We're meant to be our best selves and to contribute. But I do see it as way more spiritual than that. But anyway, I haven't thought too much about using creative instincts for good or evil. Do you have anything to say about that?

Speaker 3 1:12:19

Um. I think it's possible that someone could tap into that energy and um, because of their own their own proclivity towards um, own their own proclivity towards um destructiveness. Yes, you know what I think? So because, you see, thoughts are things and so we have the power to either make a positive income outcome for ourselves in this life, but we also, if we tap into um, if we're, if we're oriented in a negative way and we tap into that energy, then I think it transforms into something that is not a happy life for you. So I do think thoughts are things. I do think that if you have a negative viewpoint, you're tapping into that energy and you're using that energy in a negative, destructive way, either towards yourself or others. So, yes, I think it's the same energy source to tie it back.

Speaker 1 1:13:29

I love it.

Speaker 3 1:13:29

Yes, I agree, but it's the choice that you make, and maybe maybe there is a biological, maybe it is in the DNA to have either a more positive desire compared to a negative proclivity, to poor thinking, unhealthy eating, unhealthy ways of viewing the world. I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of sadness going on right now.

Speaker 1 1:13:52

I like what you hinted, that it was free will, and I'm going to go with nurture on that one, more so than nature, because maybe I mean I'm just processing and formulating what you said. It seems to me, maybe, when it sort of leans toward the destructive right, creativity and destruction are opposite sides of the same coin so maybe when it leans toward destructive it's a lack of love um, I would say it's.

Speaker 2 1:14:19

It could be that I also think it's um, it's behavior. So a lot of times it's behavior driven, so it can be either behavior that's been modeled or bad coping. So it's not like. I mean I'm not going to say there aren't people who intentionally do things, because obviously there's people who intentionally do stuff too. But usually when they intentionally do it, it's because they have learned bad modeling behavior.

Speaker 1 1:14:48

I was going to say but modeled models are nurture, they're nurture and their environment, and they are the product of a lack of love, whether it's in the previous generation or five generations back. Yeah, that's what we need to recognize. Actually right is the ripple effect that we've been talking about this whole episode.

Speaker 2 1:15:07

Yeah, that's exactly where I was going with. It is, you know, when you look at into that deeper kind of you know path, that's that's where it all stems from. And you're right, I mean, the more that we come together as a community and support each other and encourage, the less you're going to see the creative process be used for you know, evil ways, you know, versus positive and uplifting.

Speaker 1 1:15:35

It's a global, it's got to be a global shift.

Speaker 2 1:15:37

Exactly.

Speaker 1 1:15:38

Well, I think we've solved all the world's problems here today At least recognize them and have sort of a game plan. Well, that's our goal really is to just contribute to the conversation. We don't have the answers here, but I do, like Virginia, we've created a forum where we share ideas, and it is a contribution. Let's just keep the dialogue going because, truly, the fascism I was hinting at earlier, again, you might not be feeling it in in canada, but certainly it's, it's lingering on the horizon here and without naming any names.

Speaker 1 1:16:09

there are other fascist dictators that, if they had their way, would join in one world order, and we're here to combat that, aristotle and you and I.

Speaker 3 1:16:19

Yes, and Virginia and Virginia, you know we actually in Canada, we are very aware of what happens, and so I feel worried for your country. Thank you, help, help and relieved that there is a new Democrat candidate now. I'm hoping that that's better. I've heard yays and nays for that. I know we don't want to get political, but I do fear for your country and I hope that the outcome will be positive and that there will be enough healing energy to see your country through, no matter what the outcome will be in november.

Speaker 3 1:17:06

But I must say that we listen keenly all the time, and my husband and I made a trip to to California a couple of years ago and uh, we stayed at this lovely bed and breakfast in in uh wine country and uh, the host, host said and I felt so sad because she sounded like a Canadian and she says I apologize for my country. And I said, oh, please don't do that, please don't you know?

Speaker 1 1:17:37

because, well, it's funny because I you know it's almost like you can criticize your own family, but God forbid somebody else say a word about your family. You're going to defend them. So I've often defended my country, knowing better.

Speaker 3 1:17:49

Sure, I just felt so sad when she said that to me. I just felt so sad when she said that to me.

Speaker 1 1:17:56

No, I find myself apologizing all lately. I didn't used to. I used to defend. Now.

Speaker 3 1:18:05

I just, yeah, shake my head and apologize, but we really loved California.

Speaker 1 1:18:14

And we thought, wow, everybody in California, they feel like Canadians, except they get to have nicer weather. Well, in Central right you have this standoff between NorCal and SoCal. But yeah, I think Wine Country was the perfect place to land. I'll say that.

Speaker 3 1:18:24

Yeah, it was nice. We really enjoyed it. It was a wonderful trip, that's good.

Speaker 1 1:18:29

Well, I think we've hit on some really beautiful stuff. Thank you so much. I know it's going to be inspiring for listeners. In an effort to sort of steer to close, I wonder if there's anything, any final words of wisdom you would love to share with listeners. And then, of course, at the end we'll put links to your book and your album. You have been on fire, my friend. They were kind of neck and neck right, the album and the book.

Speaker 3 1:18:51

Yeah, literally as I had explained, the first half of last year was writing the book and then I put that aside and then I focused my concentration on the album. But you know, after that there was still editing processes on both projects that were done earlier this year. So, yeah, it was, it was glorious, I just loved it. I can't.

Speaker 1 1:19:15

I meant to say at that when you mentioned that you took your attention off the book to work on the album. Did you find that then you could see the forest for the trees when you went back to it? Meaning, you know, sometimes we don't have perspective and we need a break from the work. Oh, I needed a break.

Speaker 3 1:19:29

Yeah, yeah, I think everyone should take a break. I think that when you write a book or any work of art like this, you need a period of time for it to sort of settle and for you know having. You were talking about the lost keys earlier, you know, and if you stop thinking about your name or lost keys or whatever it is, then you get a fresh perspective, and it's that fresh perspective that you need so desperately, whether it's finding a lost item or reassessing what you've written after three or four months. So I think it's good to have that cooling off period, because you can be super objective then.

Speaker 1 1:20:10

And also I think we get really precious about our choices too when we don't step away from it. So maybe the universality not the commercial appeal, right. But the universality might lie in taking that step back and then coming back to it with a more universal perspective.

Speaker 3 1:20:27

Exactly. I think that's really important. So you asked for words of wisdom.

Speaker 1 1:20:33

No pressure. Anything you would like to share, put it down.

Speaker 3 1:20:37

I think for anyone who's an aspiring writer, don't get rid of anything that you write. Save it, um, and and realize that there's not always it may not be the right time to finish a piece or even start a piece, but be confident in yourself and know that there will be a right time. Just let that again, that piece, fall on you so that you can create. And also, I would say the other bit of advice is it's never too late to start a project. It's never too late to go take those singing lessons or or write that book or whatever artistic endeavor that interests you, or whether it's something to do with athleticism and you want to run a marathon or climb a mountain, it's never too late. Just make sure that you take the time for training and for and and and and and. Be humble to accept the wisdom of others so that they can share with you and you, in turn, by learning, will also be able to teach them.

Speaker 3 1:21:43

So I think, again, this whole universality theme that we've talked about, this uh, today, I think is really important. So stay connected with each other's um, um. Stay connected with each other's um, um. Stay connected with each other in honor, uh, what is in each other and, um, I guess I can't really think of anything else. Just no, that's beautiful.

Speaker 1 1:22:05

It's so funny how you know, themes create themselves. The first time I did an interview, at 19 in college, I interviewed street people uh, whatever that means. I went to a halfway house and interviewed. You know they call them squatters and teenage runaways and they had some interviews lined up, but then the kids didn't show up. So I said and I was 19 myself, so they were my peers, just with different circumstances. So I said well, I'm just going to go out on the street and interview the shoeshine man and actually interviewed a male prostitute on Santa Monica Boulevard.

Speaker 1 1:22:34

I was a weird 19 year old and so I wrote up. You know, I recorded the interviews back then on a little handheld recorder and then I wrote them up and I painted their portraits. But, man, I was blown away at night. It was amazing, but it really opened my eyes like, wow, life is a story in the spirit of the podcast, and themes created themselves within a half an hour interview and they came back around. Just like in good writing, right, you drop a motif and that motif comes back around. So I feel like that happened today and the words of wisdom I put a gun to your head and made you share were to me the themes that kind of emerged, weren't they?

Speaker 3 1:23:11

Yeah, definitely, definitely.

Speaker 1 1:23:14

Yeah, I love this.

Speaker 3 1:23:15

This was wonderful. I love talking with both of you. This was amazing.

Speaker 1 1:23:19

Well, we often say we'll have you back for part two. You don't need to have a book coming out, you know anytime. I think you'll be really inspiring to our guests.

Speaker 3 1:23:28

Well, I would love that. I'd love to come back anytime. You have me, that's nice, thank you.

Speaker 2 1:23:32

You're welcome. We love having kindred spirits with us on the show.

Speaker 3 1:23:36

Yes, I could really feel that there's a real connection.

Speaker 2 1:23:46

I enjoyed that very much. Well, thank you.

Speaker 1 1:23:48

And.

Speaker 2 1:23:48

Virginia, we will be putting links in the episode description. Is that right? Exactly, so everybody can find out more about you, Thank you.

Speaker 1 1:23:54

Thank you so much For our listeners. Remember, life is story and we can get our hands in the clay, Individually and collectively. We can write a new story. See you next time.