Navigating Regency with Midlife Coach Dr. Andrea M Slominski

Can midlife be a time of renewed agency and potential for women? Discover the transformative possibilities with our guest, Andrea M. Slominski, PhD, a renowned women's therapeutic midlife and menopause coach. Andrea introduces us to "Regency," a new life stage spanning ages 45 to 70 and beyond. Drawing from her extensive research and personal journey—returning to academia at 55 to earn her MA and PhD in women's psychology and mythology—Andrea provides invaluable insights into the profound changes women experience during perimenopause, midlife, menopause, and postmenopause. We explore how these often challenging years can be a time of empowerment and renewed purpose, delving into her unique coaching methods rooted in archetypal and depth psychology.

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Transcript

The Power of Storytelling and Myth

Speaker 1 0:00

Hello and welcome to Language of the Soul podcast. I'm your host, dominic Domingo.

Speaker 2 0:06

And I'm your co-host, Virginia Grenier.

Speaker 1 0:09

We'd like to invite you to sit back, relax and enjoy some inspiring conversation. Here at Language of the Soul, we know that life is story. Individually, we're the products of the stories we tell about ourselves. Culture is the amalgamation of the stories we weave about the human condition. Here's the thing. Individually and collectively, we can write our own story. Thanks for tuning in and joining in the march toward human potential.

Speaker 2 0:44

Before we dive in, I encourage you to subscribe on Buzzsprout or join our Patreon community for exclusive content. Your ratings and reviews help us grow, so please take a moment to share the podcast with friends and family. Every bit of support helps us reach more hearts and minds. Let's get started hearts and minds.

Speaker 3 1:10

Let's get started. Storytelling is the glue, is the foundational energy that creates and holds culture and peoples together. Storytelling is fundamental to the human condition from the moment we're born. In the end of all things legacy, life, work the only thing that matters is love.

Speaker 1 1:32

Hello and welcome to Language of the Soul podcast, where life is story. I'm your host. Author, Dominic Domingo.

Speaker 2 1:41

And I am the co-host and producer, Virginia Goodnear.

Speaker 1 1:46

Thank you for being here, everybody. You know we're changing up our format just a tiny bit. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. So we're keeping a lot of things the same, but we're kind of just cutting to the chase these days. So by way of introduction I will say I am jazzed about this week's guest. She's a dear friend and I'm just really looking forward to actually listening and learning. So, yeah, without further ado, I'm just going to read her bio and then bring her on in. Andrea M Sleminski, phd, is a women's therapeutic, midlife and menopause coach, speaker and author. She went back to school at 55 and earned her MA and PhD in women's psychology and mythology, focusing on the triple transformation women must navigate in midlife. Her coaching method is based on archetypal and depth psychology. In her PhD research, andrea identified the new life stage that has emerged for women over the past 120 years, which includes perimenopause, midlife menopause and postmenopause. She names this new life stage from ages 45 to 70 and beyond Regency and identifies it as women's new power years. Welcome, andrea Slemitsky.

Speaker 3 3:03

Good morning Nick, good morning Virginia. It's nice to be here.

Speaker 2 3:07

We're glad to have you.

Speaker 1 3:09

Thank you for being here in cyberspace.

Speaker 3 3:12

It's my pleasure to have a soulful conversation with you two. I'm really excited to be here.

Speaker 1 3:18

Like what? I can't wait. I've actually been, as you know, stalking you online and I don't know everything about you. I feel like you're a sister to me and I do. I've been tracking you, but of course, there's a lot of prep. So one thing that came back to me, by the way, is do you remember the very? I don't expect you to at all, but the very first day we met, I think was at one of Renee's singing workshops, and I personally I remember chatting in the parking lot for two hours. Does that ring a bell?

Speaker 3 3:48

Yeah, that does ring a bell. It seems when, um when, like minds connect in creative situations, sometimes there's that that, like two magnets, they, like you know, grab onto each other and there's some kind of instant connection.

Speaker 1 4:10

Yeah, I just remember we went there and without indicting anyone, I think we talked about everything, up to and including hallucinogenics.

Speaker 3 4:15

I'm sure we did.

Speaker 1 4:17

In a parking lot in Santa Clarita. I just remember we really instantly made a connection. So yeah, there's a lot of history there and I I've been kind of tracking what you're up to. But I'm first of all, did I get that everything in the bio right, or is there anything you would want to correct?

Speaker 3 4:32

No, that's perfect. That's perfect, absolutely.

Speaker 1 4:35

Okay, well, as you know, that is just the beginning. There's so much more to you, so I'd love to back up a little bit and I'm going to prompt you to tell us just a little bit more about what you've been up to on the planet. But before we do that, I just do want to say I feel very lucky to have you, and one of the fringe benefits, I think, virginia, you would agree One of the fringe benefits is whenever we have guests on, whether they're, you know, new acquaintances or lifelong friends. And in my case, I feel like I've been being reminded what formidable people I've had in my life, and, like Greg Spelanka, I haven't really had a head to head with him since the 90s, but it really renews my faith in humanity. You know, watching the news can really get you down these days, but I just am finding myself reminded that there are really cool people out there, and you're included in that.

Speaker 1 5:25

Well, so of course yeah, you're very lucky and I don't know.

Speaker 3 5:30

I've always been a huge fan of yours, nick, since we started to get to know one another years ago and did some side projects together and stuff. Um, I've always said to you and to your sister, who's my best friend, and to everyone that I know that I consider to you, you, to be truly a Renaissance man.

Speaker 1 5:49

Yeah, I knew you were going to say that, yeah you're one of the most talented, creative, imaginative, original men living Okay you're very sweet and I was not prompting you to say that, but I feel the same way and we are kindred spirits. So hopefully some of that will be evident in our conversations. But yeah, kindred spirits for sure, uh, but you inspire me and really I'm not kidding when I say I look forward to learning and listening, no pressure, but uh, especially when it comes to mythology, I think I've told you, I'm just kind of like, especially with the seeker. I didn't enough research to feel like I could tell a really good story about the human condition. Seeker. I did enough research to feel like I could tell a really good story about the human condition. That's what do they call it?

Speaker 1 6:27

Character-driven and, you know, has an emotional core to it, but I learned on an as-needed basis, so I do need to play catch-up. So I'm relying on you when it comes to, you know, these, especially the archetypes that we talked about in our pre-interview, maybe the article that I'm going to prompt you to read. Okay, anyway, without further ado, I I want to straight out the gate, if you don't mind. As part of our new format, in the spirit of the podcast, we're going to start asking every guest straight out the gate, if you don't mind if you could humor me sure um what do you feel has been the role of storytelling in culture? And then the part is has it evolved over time or has it always played the same role in culture?

Speaker 3 7:09

Ooh, that's a good one. I like that.

Speaker 1 7:13

Do, do, do, do do.

Speaker 3 7:16

Storytelling. Storytelling is the glue, is the foundational energy that creates and holds culture and peoples together. I mean storytelling is fundamental to the human condition. From the moment we're born, we're born. Our first story, our first episode, our first, our first lines of our personal myth are are are written in our relationship with our mother, whether she's the good mother, the bad mother the terrible mother, the helicopter mother, the too good mother, the neglectful mother, yeah, yeah, that that relationship is the first chapter in our story.

Speaker 3 8:08

And then and then from that relationship comes the eventual quickly in terms of how long a human lives, but our eventual understanding that we are separate from the mother, that we are not one, that we realize that we are not one, that we realize that we are two, and that's sort of that next step.

Speaker 1 8:28

Is that, like the, the individuation process, that happens?

Speaker 3 8:32

I think it's it's step one of of many, many, many, many steps, and hopefully we complete it at some point in our life. But going to the macro, which you said cultural, really, I think about storytelling in terms of early human culture and what we know about Neolithic and pre-Neolithic cultures and the function that storytelling and myth and ritual served to do everything from get organized for the hunt to to explaining the, the natural world and the causes of of the things that happen in the natural world, how to survive in the natural world. You know, know, as Joseph Campbell said, you know myth, which is, you know, story that explains who we are and and where we are and why you know it has four, four functions and one of them is that these stories give us a foundational agreement of how we are to live together. Our laws, laws, our agreements, our morals are I like the word codes.

Speaker 1 9:49

It's the codes we live by, right? Yeah?

Speaker 3 9:50

absolutely yeah. So so story is, story is fundamental to the human psyche and the human um experience, and and so it has to be creative force that holds culture together. I mean, when I look at the different mythologies that I've studied from around the world, and how different they are but yet how similar they are Right.

Speaker 1 10:16

Well, that's Joseph Campbell in a nutshell, right, the masks of God. It just takes different forms, figurative forms, yeah absolutely we're wired for it right.

The Evolution of Storytelling and Myth

Speaker 3 10:26

Yeah, for sure. And so what was the second half of the?

Speaker 1 10:29

question. Well, just, has it evolved? Has the role of story and culture? Well see, we always talk about micro and macro as well, right? So there's a catharsis for the individual when engaging in storytelling, and then, of course, there's a tribal outcome. But I'm just wondering on the maybe macro scale, in terms of how it functions in culture, has that evolved over time, or is it still serving the same purpose, storytelling?

Speaker 3 10:52

It's very interesting, you know, because I think it's become fragmented. I think that, and this is one of the more interesting things of Campbell's later work to me, is the idea that myth and the stories that we live by, and even Jung's work talking about the myths that we live by and that we're born under and that we're part of, right as a unifying force and culture. Um, now the world has gotten so small and there are so many different myths that are um presenting different, uh, cultural images that it's becoming fragmented.

Speaker 3 11:41

So what we need is somehow at some point in a hundred years, 200 years, 500 years, a thousand years, if we're still here.

Speaker 1 11:51

Exactly.

Speaker 3 11:52

A new myth needs to develop, one that includes the whole planet, all life and everyone on it. A unifying story.

Speaker 1 12:03

Yeah, and I think you, who, who actually? You quoted somebody on that front, right, who was it? Was that a campbell? Okay, yeah, now was that the uh masks of god series, the, the pbs, not pbs the beat. What is it?

Speaker 3 12:20

british broadcasting network um it, you know, I'm trying to think of where I think it's bbc is what I was trying to say, yeah I think it was in the pbs with um the pbs special right the power of myth, right, um. And then there was a book that was put together from the transcript right, yeah, I read it, I'm pretty sure it's in there, and a lot of mythologists and a lot of academics and a lot of feminists and a lot of people have a lot of problems with aspects of Joseph Campbell's work.

Speaker 1 12:54

Yeah, we've experienced it on the show, haven't we, virginia?

Speaker 3 12:57

Yes, I get in trouble when I talk about the hero's journey, yeah, which I understand and there are issues, you know, with moving forward as culture is changing, but, um, I really do think that somehow we're gonna have to find a way to move forward together or we're not gonna move forward forward at all.

Speaker 1 13:23

Yeah Well, what I hear in that is is that there is a fragmentation. But whenever you know, you kind of see both sides of an issue when it rears its head, right, when things come to a head and you know, in the spirit of story, conflict always signals change, right. So see polar opposites kind of surfacing. That's a good thing because you get to diagnose, right. But on this podcast the way it kind of manifests is like we've heard in Virginia.

Speaker 1 13:51

You can back me or not, but I think a lot of people are very aware that we are synthesizing binaries for sure, you know that seems to be the path we're on and that includes masculine and feminine and you know just all things non-binary. But when it comes to all the stories that make up the tapestry, that is the human condition, we finally are right, spotlighting Indigenous peoples who haven't yet told their story and to their colonizers. How about that? And so Own Voices is a movement for a reason, because we're starting to acknowledge that, sure, there's a template. And again, I will defend the hero's journey till my dying breath, because I think the guests that found it oppressive and just another form of patriarchy to blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 14:40

I said well then you, I didn't say it, but I thought you don't understand it then, because it's about all of us, right, the hero's journey is not a patriarchal tool to oppress anybody or silence their voice. So, anyway, don't you see, though, that you kind of hinted that maybe different, I would say, western archetypes don't always translate, and then other way around. I teach at art center, and 12 of my 20 students are Lee's, wu's, yun's or Park's, so I started noticing, you know, in what I teach, which is visual development, like in Kabuki theater, for example, you can have a line that vase is my aunt and it's like, what? Like? It means absolutely nothing to us. Yeah, I was amazed by the common ground, and part of it is the world is a smaller place, right, and tropes and archetypes and stereotypes are transcending cultures now, but I was shocked at the common ground, to be honest, even between East and West. Anyway, I'm just agreeing with you that maybe we are merging all those things by finally letting silenced voices tell their stories.

Speaker 3 15:44

Well, you, know absolutely things by finally letting silenced voices tell their stories Absolutely, and what I think is really interesting about that and I think is really current and important about that is that many Indigenous traditions hold the divine to be imminent, to be within the world, within nature, within life as it exists on the planet, that that the divine is here now. We are a part of it.

Speaker 1 16:16

It is it's intrinsic where we like to separate it. It's out there, right well that it's.

Speaker 3 16:21

what we would say is that it's imminent instead of transcendent, where the transcendent model, which is sort of the Judeo-Christian model, is that where the earth is fallen, it's sinful. God is of the heavens to the worlds of the gods, and a lot of the indigenous traditions are saying no. The goddess and the God and the sacred is imminent within all life and it is here now, in you, in me, in the rocks, in the trees, in the sun, in the system, in the seasons, in the turning of the wheel, and so they're very different ways of looking at the divine.

Speaker 1 17:12

Yes, well, do you feel in Judeo again? Judeo, you have to preface everything right. Western European Judeo Christian culture. I think the mainstream is getting a little more comfortable with that right. The new age movement it was like no, no, no, you got to again the fire and brimstone and it's not within. And it was really uncomfortable, especially in fundamentalist Christian circles. I think maybe the mainstream Judeo-Christian, the Judeo-Christian mainstream is a little more comfortable with the idea that we have divinity within us. Is that true mainstream?

Speaker 3 17:46

is a little more comfortable with the idea that we have divinity within us. Is that true? I you know that would be something that would be an interesting research project. I think I think there are. There are branches of the Judeo-Christian tradition, certainly, that see the divine as part of the whole life system, but the the concept that no one gets to the father except through me right that you have to. You have to to rise up and be resurrected through christ in order to reach the divine the golden ticket.

Speaker 3 18:20

Yeah, yeah, these are all transcendent images of God, who, which is the Mormons.

Speaker 1 18:59

My people.

Speaker 2 19:00

Yeah, the philosophy is still very much what Andrea is saying. But at the same time I've been seeing in our local newspapers more articles about more spiritualism, what used to be more of the new age, or the occult kind of perceptions from the 80s, 90s and 70s about connecting, you know, and how it is divinely in us. It's not something you have to transcend. So I think that the at least what I'm seeing here in a state like this that's very church driven, that yes, the church still is teaching that, but the younger generations in the church they're not buying it.

Speaker 1 19:41

Yeah, they're branching out like even though they still go to church on sunday.

Speaker 2 19:45

They're also branching out in their spirituality and realizing there's more to it than just that rote practice on Sunday.

Speaker 3 19:53

Yeah, I think I think the squeaky wheel. I think you're right. I think the squeaky wheel gets the grease. So the, the, the fundamentalists on all sides that scream the loudest get the most media attention yes and they're probably 20 percent yeah yep, yep, kind of like the whole republican party anyway.

Speaker 1 20:16

Yeah, so many parallels, but actually I do want to backpedal. I'm so sorry if if you have more to say, you can jump in any time. But I do want to start at the beginning a little bit, because I was so intrigued by again, I hate to air our dirty laundry, but we do have a pre interview and we have a form that our guests filled out, and you went above and beyond, by the way, I love what you wrote, andrea. So I was intrigued by a line that I'm going to read, and maybe it's you can dovetail off of this. Again, this is a way of kind of just telling us what you've been up to on the planet and how it led to your current practice, which seems to be the culmination, right, of a lot of things, as is the way of life. But the line that I would love to prompt you with and hopefully you can dovetail off of it is the journey that brought me to where I am now in my career is one that was linked to story from the beginning.

Speaker 1 21:02

Okay, yeah does that conjure anything for you as a way of letting us know?

Speaker 3 21:09

yes, it conjures james hillman and the acorn theory and all those things. But we don't have time to get into that.

Speaker 1 21:14

But no, I'm picturing little andrea with all those books at the yes yes of the bookshelf absolutely when I was a child.

Speaker 3 21:24

um, you know, what I was talking about in the pre-interview was that, you know, in our summer vacations we'd go visit our grandparents at this little summer house in New Hampshire, would take all of the magazines of the National Geographic and in every year and he would bind them into books. Wow, and so they were. All his shelves were filled with all of this archeological, anthropological, mythological material and I would just sit on the floor at the bottom of the bookcase and just pull out you know the, the sections that had like three or four you know magazines in it, and just pour over them. I was fascinated with it. I was fascinated with other cultures. I was fascinated with everything from the photographs to the stories. I mean what I could understand, everything from the photographs to the stories, what I could understand, you know, at the age of eight or 10, when I'm reading about it, and it just always, always interested me.

Speaker 3 22:39

I was in school, I went to a prep school, so we had lots of heavy reading material. In the summer I would read a lot of literature. Um, I didn't read a lot of popular novels or those kinds of things. You know, none of the captain underpants or that kind of thing um I guess that was clear yeah, not that that's bad, but that wasn't what I was allowed to read.

Speaker 3 23:04

And so, um, story was story was adventure, reading sitting in a corner in my house, in a sunny corner, or sitting out on the patio by the lake at my grandparents' house, and reading was a ticket to other worlds, to other places. And so I think I was hooked at a very young age. And then, of course, my um, early career and college studies took me into theater, which is storytelling, certainly, um, and then, as I went further on in my education, many years later, you know theater is, there's a huge academic, you know brouhaha Was theater first or was ritual first or was myth? Actually, was myth first or was ritual first? Many say it was ritual, which was then became myth, which then became theater.

Speaker 1 24:10

So it's um yeah, you, actually you wrote theater is the twin of ritual, which is the daughter or sister of myth. I loved that.

Speaker 3 24:19

Yeah, and so then everything became about storytelling taking the playwrights work and working collaboratively as a director with many, many people to bring the story to life. And then the thing that I love about theater is that every single performance is an individual experience. It's never repeated twice. It's not like you can put the film on and it's the same every time.

Speaker 3 24:46

Every performance is different, every audience is different, every energetic exchange is different, and then the the audience comes in and degrees agrees to suspend their disbelief and you take a journey together beautiful whatever the story is that you're, that you're following, and then there's either laughter, which is a catharsis of its own, or it's drama, and there's the cathartic climax of the journey that everyone in the room takes together.

Speaker 1 25:16

Beautiful. Yep, that's tribal bonding right there, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 25:20

Which in a sense is ritual, right, you know.

Speaker 1 25:23

Well, there's so much to it. I mean, aristotle comes up on this podcast a lot and I would argue that, you know, with fascism on the horizon, that's kind of when he coined that term catharsis, and he was absolutely fighting for the cultural value of that catharsis and what it serves, and I would say that's not unlike the climate at this moment.

Speaker 3 25:45

You know, history repeats itself, doesn't it? Absolutely.

Speaker 1 25:48

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's why story is so important, right? God forbid we forget the horrors of the past, right?

Speaker 3 25:56

Yeah Well, you know it's funny because when you think about the time of Aristotle in theater at that point in ancient Greece, classical Greece, whichever period you want to look at, you know that was where everyone came together and plays were written about what was going on either politically or culturally at the time and yeah, of course it was a patriarchal culture it's most likely women weren't allowed to go. Some people say women were, some people say they weren't. We're not going to get into that debate but, everyone went and went to see these plays.

Speaker 3 26:32

Everyone that could, that was able-bodied, that was allowed, would go to these plays, which would deal with the issues of the time and make everyone think together at the same time about what was happening. But now that doesn't happen because everybody's fragmented on on the internet. Everybody's fragmented on on the internet everybody's fragmented on their apps.

Speaker 3 26:51

Um. Theater has become an elitist art form nobody can afford to go to, and most young people aren't interested in going to and don't really understand what it is, and so it's um. Storytelling has shifted, and this is what they see.

Speaker 1 27:08

That's yeah. That goes back to the earlier question. Maybe it is in terms of format and genre. It is changing right With streaming, for example, and instead of having that communal experience in a theater, where all that dopamine and you know all those bonding chemicals and even the sinking of brainwaves, you know which happens at a music event because brick and mortar is going by the wayside and everyone's, you know, filing their nails and doing their laundry while watching a movie streaming, maybe we are missing out on something I would argue. It's still available. You just got to seek it out, you know.

Speaker 3 27:43

Yeah, that's true, but if it's not something that you're raised, knowing, appreciating or or being aware of although I guess you know, if you look at Shakespeare in the park in New York City, when Joe was doing it and you know, 10s of 1000s of people would would show up to see it. So I guess that that's that's. That's one good thing, and it's so refreshing though.

Speaker 1 28:10

You know we have Shakespeare in the park here in Griffith park and, um, it rocks my world. But the example, tell me if this resonates. The example I use is it's a dated reference now, but uh, I think I saw like the third matrix in the theater and you know it's effects driven and it's got a franchise attached and just exploding helicopters everywhere you go and you know, I would say I mean I like the Matrix, but it is a little bit about, you know, feeding the addiction to adrenaline and cortisol. You know, more so than transforming us, right, I don't know, the first one was pretty transformational, but anyway, you get the idea. The next day I went to the Bodhi Tree bookstore, if you remember that.

Speaker 1 28:49

Yes, of course, I think it was Vietnamese shadow puppets at the Bodhi Tree bookstore so minimal, but it obviously transported me way more than the Matrix, and that said it all to me. Sometimes we're refreshed by, if that makes sense, suspending a moment or forcing one to be in the moment instead of, like at a Taylor Swift concert, just making sure you capture it on your cell phone.

Speaker 3 29:13

You took that right out of my mouth.

Speaker 2 29:15

I was gonna say look at the Taylor Swift phenomenon oh my god yes it's funny you guys just brought that up because I literally just had to read a research study on her influence on her fan base I just this past week, um, and was in a discussion about it and I kind of brought up like because I always thought her music, because what they were focusing on on that, by the way, was her influence, but how she talks about like her eating disorders and body image and I'm like I thought most of her songs were about breakups, at least all the ones I've ever really like heard or kind of semi remember listening to, like pre-COVID, yeah, and I'm like, so when did that shift happen?

Speaker 2 29:57

It was a very interesting research story about it or article on it. But yeah, it's amazing like the phenomena that we see now. Like the phenomenon that we see now and and it goes back to you know how you guys are talking about Shakespeare in the park like we have the Shakespearean festival up in Cedar City, utah, that you can go to um, but I think it's sad that you don't see as many community theaters anymore you know that it has become more of a, an elitist, like.

Speaker 2 30:24

We have two a con here that people go to to see Broadway shows and I think the cheapest ticket I mean not that it's super expensive, but it is, with inflation, especially now, you know it's like I think 60 something dollars for a ticket.

Speaker 2 30:40

Wow 50 to 70 year old white women are the women who keep Broadway alive, yeah, and it's sad and I actually try, and you and you know, like I didn't go see disney frozen, I was like, okay, my kids like watched that cartoon a bazillion times when it first came out, because they were little. So you know, as now going into college age kids, they really probably don't want to go see frozen, but they had um anastasia and I took them to go see that because to me that and it was it was really fun watching them.

Speaker 2 31:08

And then you know, they know me growing up, of course, you know, being a Gen Xer in the cold war era they kind of looked at me like, oh, I kind of get some of the stuff that you referenced now or talk about after seeing Anastasia on the stage, because obviously you know set in old Russia.

Speaker 3 31:49

Sorry, I have a feeling they're starved for it. That's why they're starved for community. That's maybe why the Taylor Swift concerts are so popular, all of their free time, evenings and weekends, making friendship bracelets making all these things that they take with them to the concert to give to other girls. Wow, but it's all about trading, it's all about friendship, it's all about support well, it's a yeah there, it's a community right.

Speaker 1 32:01

It's that feeling of interconnectivity, wherever you can find it yeah, absolutely, yeah all right taylor swift I. I can't have an intelligence con.

Speaker 2 32:11

I know nothing, I really oh yeah, I'm not, I'm not a Swifty, but it was, it was an interest. I'll also do to you, dom, if you want to um read it. It's an interesting um, research, research study, but um, I I think that a lot of you know going back to the whole connection too. I think that a lot of you know going back to the whole connection too. I think that's the thing and it's the whole coming together and having those collaborative discussions and curiosity. I think that people are starving for that curiosity to explore an idea, and you don't have that when you're on social media. It's not the same.

Speaker 1 32:45

Yeah, the novelty. You get the little dendrites going when you introduce, right, new novel experiences. And, uh, you don't get that on a tiny little phone. In my opinion, andrea, where have we gone?

Speaker 3 33:00

we've gone. We've gone out into the world of the swifties and there's no going back I was gonna say there, say there's no return.

Speaker 1 33:08

I'm going to steer it back, though, cause I you know, when you were, I really loved the imagery of you sitting at the bottom of that bookshelf and you mentioned some abandoned right Old foundations of old dwellings, and I was right there with you. How the hell did your love of story all the way through your theater experience? How did that bring you where you are today? I want to get up to the point of your current practice.

Discovering Mythological Studies and Self-Transformation

Speaker 3 33:31

Sure, Well, I was teaching theater at a college out here in Santa Clarita for about 10 years and then we had, of course, the Great Recession. And then, you know, after that, you know, COVID came pretty quickly on the heels of that. Then, you know, after that, you know, COVID came pretty quickly on the heels of that, but during the recession my teaching load got reduced pretty extensively. Of course they didn't cut back on football, but they did cut back on the arts.

Speaker 1 33:59

Right.

Speaker 3 34:01

So I decided maybe this is a good time to go back to school, because at first I thought maybe I wanted to make the jump and work in TV or get a terminal degree so I could teach at a uni, right? So I thought, all right, well, I'll go back to school. So I started going out, going to. Csula has a program, a blended master's MFA in television, film and theater, and after finishing the first year, at the end of the first year, we did some of the. We did all the theater and a little bit of television. And I just realized that that was not. It didn't interest me that that primarily, or a lot of, what a tv director did was decide where the cameras were going to be and when and when to switch this and when to switch that and and actually they're kind of hired hands.

Speaker 1 34:51

Really they're not like auteurs or true storytellers in a lot of cases, yeah right, right.

Speaker 3 34:56

And so I was like, yeah, I'm not interested in that. I really felt I was too old to make the leap into the film industry and and wasn't really sure I wanted to do film work. Um, it's just a whole different process. I like the immediacy, I like I like working with the people, I like working towards the performance, the performance itself. It just, you know, film and television, as you know, are completely different processes.

Speaker 1 35:21

It's a delayed gratification in the creative process is how I put it. You know, when you're right there in the room and you complete that circuit right and the content has landed and transformed and moved people, you feel it an artist. You know you hang a piece in a gallery. You're really not there to feel the completion of the circuit. So I'm with you a hundred percent. I love theater for that reason. When you're a filmmaker, yeah, you may or may not be there to to see does that make sense?

Speaker 3 35:49

Yes, to see that it's actually done its part, and certainly film and television reach, have a potential much greater and wider reach the process just just was not for me. It just didn't didn't align with what I wanted to do. And it was funny because, um, I was working on a film project at the end of the first year and I've injured myself three times in my life and each of the times I injured myself it changed my direction.

Speaker 1 36:21

Fascinating Right. The universe had to really speak loud to get your attention.

Speaker 3 36:26

I know A friend of mine once said they had to cripple the cow to get her back to the barn.

Speaker 1 36:33

I'm like, excuse me did you just call me a cow? Yeah, I think you just called me a cow excuse me, I'm like.

Speaker 3 36:39

I like the metaphor, but um so, um, I was uh, I I broke my ankle, a silly thing and so I couldn't finish going out filming the film project that I was doing for my film class. So I had to figure out what could I do from my desktop with the footage I already had, or stock footage, or that I could put together myself, or what could I do. What could I do? What could I do? And so I started thinking about just did Joseph Campbell ever do anything on the Grail Quest? Well, that's a stupid question, but I had never seen his work on the Grail quest. Well, that's a stupid question, but I had never seen his work on the grail quest before.

Speaker 3 37:13

So, as I'm researching it, I find that, oh my gosh, joseph campbell's entire private library and all his notes and everything from his entire career are at this school, 40 minutes from where I live. Like that's amazing carpentry, right next to Santa Barbara. I'm like what, what, what is this place? So I looked it up. It was Pacifica Graduate Institute. So I looked it up and I was like what wait? I mean what? I was like there's, there's a degree in mythological studies. Are you kidding me? I was like mythological studies and deaf psychology. I was like I was like, I really felt like and what I've said in the show notes before is about that, that sort of hill mania and acorn theory where you have a day on that nudges you to, to, to complete what it is you came here to do in your life, and so I really feel that was that was a big course correction.

Speaker 3 38:03

and so I went and checked out the school on a free come check it out day, and I never looked back.

Speaker 1 38:09

Love it.

Speaker 3 38:10

It was probably the most transformative experience in my life, next to having children.

Speaker 1 38:18

Wow, that's saying a lot.

Speaker 3 38:20

It was going through that program.

Mythology and Self-Transformation

Speaker 1 38:22

Well, you know, I've known you. I watched you right. I've known you, you and Renee, both. I just admire you so much. This is a weird question, but have either of you ever read Asher Lev? The book is I Am Asher Lev.

Speaker 3 38:39

Yeah, no, I haven't read that one. I've heard of it, but I haven't.

Speaker 1 38:41

Yeah, it's by Haim Potok. Anyway, it's just really inspiring because the mother I'm going to say too much here, but you know my mom was a creative and obviously she's the definition of creativity and just so nurturing of creativity. But you know, one thing she didn't have is that novelty chip. We're talking about, right, getting out and reinventing yourself, and in a good way. She was a homebody and very content, although I took her to Europe and I'm glad to say I was able to do that, but anyway, she just I think I was haunted by the mother character in, uh, again, haim Potok's uh, I Am Asher Lev because, yeah, she went back to college after having emptiness syndrome and just kept reinventing herself and I was like I don't know that archetype of mother. It was really inspiring and kind of haunting. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 39:28

Yeah, yeah, so you get all my respect. You're so cute. Well, you know, at some point like that's the whole thing with at the time I went back to get my master's and PhD I was going through the menopause midlife shift which we're not taught about. We're not taught anything about it? No-transcript. I was struggling through the underworld of these experiences while I was studying about them.

Speaker 1 40:26

Wow, no wonder it was so transformative in real time. It was wonder it was so transformative.

Speaker 3 40:29

Yeah, it was in real time it was, it was completely transformative and then being able to focus on on women's myths around the world and the transformational, uh emergence of a new life stage for women since 1900. I mean it, just it's crazy. I mean just to say really briefly what. What really blew my mind and what put me on this path more than anything of my current career, is in the year 1900, women in the US, statistically, women of color were dead by 43 and white women by 51.

Speaker 3 41:06

Wow and white women by 51. Wow. So in the past 100, 120 years women's lifespan have more than doubled for women of color, or doubled and increased by a third for non-women of color. That means we've added an entire new life stage to women's lives, from, say, 50 to 80, 80, 80, 90 or or beyond. Boomer women and the women coming up after them are the first women in the history of humanity to live past menopause together as a cohort right it has never happened before.

Speaker 3 41:43

Individual women, yeah, since the time of plato the great, aunt the old, the old witch that lived at the, you know edge of the medieval forest Plato the great aunt the old, the old witch that lived at the, you know, edge of the medieval forest that was the crone right, whatever, but entire generations of women living into this new life stage. Which is why there's no maps, there's no models, there's no words.

Speaker 1 42:03

Right, we have spinster, we have crone, we have a lot of negative ones, but I, I mean, tell me, I want to hear more about exactly how your practice emerged out of your studies. Uh, because I think it is a niche at right, a new niche that needs to be filled, and you're doing it beautifully. But, um, yeah and uh, I mean, obviously I can't be expected to know the ins and outs of perimenopause and menopause, because if they're not telling you, they're definitely not telling me, right?

Speaker 3 42:29

yeah, right, exactly. Well, you know, I've had a lot of men say to me well, what about men?

Speaker 1 42:33

and I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I invite you to go through the program, put together a men's program well, no, there's the midlife crisis where you go, get a trophy wife and a sports car, right, that's the equivalent, but anyway, and men have emptiness syndrome as well. But what I want to say because I'm always going to draw parallels I'm not, as Virginia knows, I don't do the war between the sexes, I have no horse in that race but what I will say is I think we need to return cultural value to wisdom across the board. Right, you don't take old folks out to the field and shoot them. We're so youth oriented. I just think we need, across the board, to return cultural value to the wisdom that only comes with experience. If that makes sense, you know, and a lot of cultures do, like we said, indigenous cultures do actually value their elders yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 43:24

I mean, you know that that's a part of the whole thing. I mean taking, taking what I, what I learned and how I incorporated myth into it to answer your question is that most mythologies? Well, let me start by saying all religions are mythologies, but not all myths are religions.

Speaker 1 43:47

Slow down. I love that.

Speaker 3 43:49

Mythologies meaning religions being mythologies, meaning that they serve the function to relate us as cultures back to the divine right Right. However, they do that, and mythologies in some ways developed out of the need for the human psyche show and help women understand how to move through any particular problem they're experiencing, how to move through any particular problem they're experiencing that myths show us that the human struggles that we're having are very personal experiences of universal rites of passage.

Speaker 1 45:01

I love that, yep.

Speaker 3 45:03

And so, without sounding too trite, there's almost a myth. That's an answer. A myth, a folktale or a fairy tale that's an answer to any human problem.

Speaker 1 45:16

Well, I have said you know there's a lot of lip service given to oh, story is something relatable about the human condition. I go further and I say it's actually the handbook for how to navigate life as a, an expression of consciousness in the physical realm, and of course I I lose people with that. So you know it's, but people don't really think about what does that mean? The human condition. I say story is the handbook for how to navigate life right. It teaches us how to live in the world.

Speaker 3 45:45

Absolutely. That's it in a nutshell You've got it, we're done.

Speaker 1 45:49

No, but I love what you said, that because we've talked about this a little bit how of course there are universal implications, but I love dissecting myth for how it resonates with my own subjective personal experience, right, and then how they kind of operate in relation to one another, not in isolation. I won't go on and on, but, icarus, like you got to consider what came before.

Speaker 3 46:12

Yeah. And if it doesn't relate to you, how are you going to, how are you going to experience it, unpack it, how are you going to be able to use it? If you can't understand it, if you can't get behind the metaphor, you can't activate it, then it's going to just be a dead bunch of words on a piece of paper.

Speaker 1 46:31

Well, that's what I see too. I mean, we're all different. You have empirical people and you have more rational people. I'm using those words, right, rationalism and empiricism. So you have spiritual people and then you have the dumbasses. No, I'm kidding, people are always, you know. I think one contingent is going to be more likely to say, oh, that explains the seasons. And I'm going to say, nah, it actually explains the cycles that we go through right in our spiritual journey. So I think people dismiss myth often as explaining nature. Sure, as a metaphor for explaining the human condition is how I put it. Well, the ones are, you know, we talked about persephone and yeah, it's the ultimate onion yeah if you want to look at the outer layer.

Speaker 3 47:13

Yeah, it's talking about, yeah, persephone, returning is the seasons. Yeah, but it's much more than that. Let's go a layer below. Let's go a layer below. Let's go back with her to the underworld. Let's go, let's go. You know, talk about, you know, eating the eating the seed of the pomegranate as the metaphor for social sexual awakening.

Speaker 3 47:33

Let's talk about this. Let's talk about I mean, there's so much in there, but yeah, you know you can. As joseph campbell said, don't mistake the finger pointing to the moon for the moon wow, well, I love that you had that right at your finger, literally your fingertips.

Speaker 1 47:52

That's awesome.

Speaker 2 47:53

I I have a question, um, andre, because, because I'm studying narrative therapy, because that's kind of where my focus is, especially because of coming from the creative side of things, um, for count for my counseling practice and a lot of what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 48:06

When it comes to the mythology, you know, perspective of it pretty much aligns. The same thing, you know, it's that whole shifting of um, you know, and reframing the personal narrative, I mean, which is a lot of what you know dominic talks about too in this podcast. Um, so I'm just wondering, because, you know, as you guys were just kind of talking a second ago, do you think that, because of how everything is just so instantaneous now in culture, especially here in western civilization, that we are missing the um? You know analogies and those little tiny, you know things that relate, like you're saying, like with persephone, like you know, people go, oh, it's changing the seasons, well, yeah, but like you said, you start pulling back those layers. Do you think, because of that instant gratification, that instant, everything that we're, we're not, at least the younger generations just aren't understanding that anymore?

Speaker 3 49:03

I I wouldn't even limit it to the younger generation to be honest all those older ones are also getting that way.

Speaker 1 49:10

I was going to say we throw in the towels, right, we dinosaurs go well, all right, I'm obsolete. I'm going to throw in the towel and be just like everybody else. I have something to say about that, andrea, do you have anything more to say about, maybe, their incapacity for, I don't know processing?

Speaker 3 49:26

I don't think there's incapacity capacity for I don't know a processing. I don't think there's. What I heard. I think what happens is is they're not exposed to it. It's not a part of our education. It's there's. No, there's very few, only very high-end places that deal with classical and philosophical education now for young people, and so they're not exposed to it, and so it's like. It's like a um pandora, it's like once they they're given the box and they open it, it's a revelation well, that's what I meant by their star for it, I mean, and I guess what.

Speaker 1 50:03

I'm so sorry, um, but now I'm having a little epiphany here, I would say, because I'm very aware that, as Greg Spelenka said, you know, we used to be told the boys more so than the girls, like, go out, don't come home till sundown. Right, you had summer vacation, and he said we ran around like banshees and I said you know, we developed pads on our feet from not wearing shoes, and that is where we learned our imagination and our creativity. And sometimes, when you have all the answers for you on your little device and you don't have to make discoveries and therefore nurture your imagination and your creativity, maybe that's where the conceptual skills lie. So I do know that nuance is lost on younger generations, right, and part of it is this I don't know the divisive impulse to like make everything binary and imagine, right, some kind of conflict where there may not be one. But so nuance is a thing of the past in my understanding. So I think maybe sometimes conceptual skills go with that, and that includes metaphor.

Speaker 1 51:12

Uh, I'll just leave it at that. Does that make any sense at all?

Speaker 3 51:15

yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I I think um looking at the younger generation, along with the conceptual skills and the nuance, the, even even if we're talking traditional western religious practice over the past 400 years, whatever we're talking about here, like um, there there are some young people who are gravitating towards a more nature-based spirituality and there there are some who are not. And for those who are not open to that, the, the liminal experience of having um an epiphanal moment from being in nature, from seeing something peak, experience a peak experience and and connecting that to being something that is divine something

Speaker 1 52:27

special they're missing out on numinous and profound moments. You don't get right.

Speaker 3 52:33

Numinous new moments on tiktok yes, we're thinking and understanding that that numinous moment was exactly prepared for you. That that was meant for you, that that was created by the divine to, as an experience for you, because you are going through dot, dot, dot actually, if you don't mind, if I could use that as a transition.

Speaker 1 53:03

I do want to hear more about the acorn theory, you know? Yeah, because it was new to me a little bit, and especially damon, that seems like a negative word to me. Can you talk a little bit about the acorn theory?

Speaker 3 53:15

Sure, the James Hillman was one of the Leaders in depth psychology and he taught at Pacifica although he had passed away quite a while before I actually got there and his book is the book on the acorn theory is called the Soul's Code S-O-U-L. Apostrophe.

Speaker 1 53:44

S. We could put that in the notes, by the way, the show notes. If there's anything you want to share.

Speaker 3 53:48

Yeah, the Soul's Code. And he starts talking about the acorn theory. I'm just going to read a little bit of what he said so I don't misquote him. He says quote each person enters the world called. More deeply, however, we are victims of academic, scientistic and even therapeutic psychology whose paradigms do not sufficiently account for or engage with, and therefore ignore the sense of calling that essential mystery at the heart of each human life. You're born with a character. It's a given, a gift, as the old stories say, from the guardian. Upon your birth, each, so the soul of each of us, is given a unique daemon, and now demon. Daemon is a, is a concept and a word that comes from the ancient greece, and daemon was the idea of.

Speaker 3 54:45

The daemon was, uh, mutilated and turned into the demon okay, that explains it so each of us is given a unique daemon before we're born, and it has selected an image or pattern that we live on Earth. This soul companion, the daemon, guides us here In the process of arrival, however and this of course goes to Plato but we forget all that took place the myth of Ur, all that took place, and believe we come in empty. The daemon remembers what is your image and what belongs to your pattern and therefore is the carrier of your destiny Right. So he's writing about what I've experienced like since a childhood, and ever increasing frequency in my own life, fate, character, innate image, image right that we each have that uniqueness.

Speaker 3 55:40

And so he says that what happens is that throughout your life, that that daemon you almost think of it like that little um supporter on your shoulder and you're like keeps nudging you to fulfilling your calling. And one of the great and I'm just going to paraphrase here because I don't have the quote in front of me One of the great things that he says is that as you get older and later in life, you can look back at your personal myth and you can look and see in the stream, in the river of your life, where your Damon has nudged you to take different tributaries in order to fulfill your calling.

Speaker 1 56:21

Yeah, that really resonates with me. You know, again doing this podcast, we're what 40 something episodes in and a lot of themes recur, and I would. My contention is, when it comes to any philosophical sorry, philosophic tradition or spiritual principle, there are a myriad ways of saying the same thing, right, and so you actually find with the major religions actually they're kind of saying the same thing using different terminology. And then in more recent traditions, like the new age, which lumps everything into one category, right, or even manifestation circles, law of attraction circles, there is proprietary language as well. So, but that one, just the imagery of it, really resonates with me, and we have been lucky enough to have kindred spirits on this podcast, but also people that have had a major nudge, by the way you know. You may remember, in the Nancy Bergeron episode we, we said the universe speaks louder and louder to get your attention.

Speaker 3 57:21

I was so happy to hear her on that episode. It was so wonderful. She's amazing.

Speaker 1 57:25

She's and and, by the way, she's very much in line with what we were talking about relevancy and engagement later in life. I joke like Jane Fonda is the reason I get up in the morning. I an engagement later in life. I joke like Jane Fonda is the reason I get up in the morning. I rely on you being Nancy is also in that category.

Speaker 1 57:41

She's absolutely yeah, so but anyway, I was just kind of hinting that, um, we have seen a lot of people that would say absolutely. It's not just that in retrospect you connect dots because that's a human compulsion. It's the reality, right? And sometimes, if, like, time is a construct of man and there is no linear time, it does seem like fate or destiny. I would argue that we have free will to co-create with divinity, co-create with the gods.

Speaker 3 58:08

I agree absolutely.

Speaker 1 58:10

Yeah, but of course it's a journey and that is the hero's journey, right? And of course, if you ignore that daemon too long, you will get probably a bigger and bigger nudge yeah, absolutely, absolutely I say, or I think that's where we see people who tend to have that battle um and I know don't.

Speaker 2 58:30

You'll probably relate to this quite well since you know you recently went through this. But like my mom currently is um on hospice and I know she keeps talking about you know what was her purpose in life? And that's a conversation her and I have a lot. So, as you were kind of sharing that, I was thinking about, like you know, kind of walking that road with my mom right now, going through what was her calling and having her go back through those memories and the things that she's done and what her purpose was.

Speaker 2 58:58

I think sometimes when people fight it, they go they go into those really deep mental, depressive kind of areas where you see the addictions or the depression, the anxiety. Some of that comes from that, because they're not trying to connect, I think universally, with who they are and what they are called to do here. Yeah, I agree, yeah.

Speaker 3 59:21

I think that's true. I think it's that universal life reassessment that happens in midlife and beyond, and then looking at legacy and thinking, I was going to say legacy, because I think ego wants to right, especially if you're nearing the brink of death.

Speaker 1 59:43

Ego wants to make sure you've left a legacy. But sometimes it's not what you think right. If you always wanted to be an artist but you feel like you never got that luxury, you know what your legacy is probably your four children or everybody you touched that you don't even realize you made a difference with them. I'm talking about my mom. Obviously Right, your legacy may not be what you think, but maybe that's why we need to surrender right to a higher will or the will of the divine, and say use me as you wish for the dialectic for the evolution of right of the species. Yes, use me as you wish for the dialectic for the evolution of right of the species.

Speaker 3 1:00:19

Yes, absolutely, and you know this is going to sound really, here we go. I'm going to say something that might sound trite, but that's okay, I'm going to say it anyway.

Speaker 1 1:00:27

Hallmark has a job waiting for you, don't worry.

Navigating the Midlife Triple Transformation

Speaker 3 1:00:29

Yes, exactly, I really think. In the end, in the end of all things legacy, life, work the only thing that matters is love.

Speaker 1 1:00:46

Yep, isn't that amazing.

Speaker 3 1:00:49

And all of its permutations.

Speaker 1 1:00:53

Yep, Well, exactly that's kind of what I meant by like there's different proprietary language, but at the bottom of it all, isn't it always, even within a given moment, the shift from fear to love and actually tapping into your compassion that's every nudge is toward that end, isn't it?

Speaker 3 1:01:11

Ideally, I think you know, and it's so funny because people, their situations, how they grow up, their families, their cultures, where they are in the world, their opportunities, the trials, the challenges, traumas that people experience, all color and change the, the perspective right of of the person.

Speaker 1 1:01:39

It's so simple at the bottom of it. All right, we're just being actually, I think we're being called upon to relinquish mind and ego and tap into our core essence, which is always love.

Speaker 3 1:01:51

It's always love yeah, I, I think so, I, I it, it. It's Sometimes it's a complicated stripping away to get there.

Speaker 1 1:02:01

Right.

Speaker 3 1:02:01

Yeah, and that has a lot to do with ego.

Speaker 1 1:02:04

Well, but I think maybe that's what Virginia was hinting at when we have existential crises or depression or chronic anxiety, it's because we are not on our path, and those are the nudges that become the dark nights of the soul that give us no choice. So, but I do feel like Andrea, I do want to steer this a little bit, because it's directly related, I think, to the midlife crises that you are counseling women through. Does that sound right?

Speaker 3 1:02:31

Yeah, absolutely, I mean it at. Women have a unique and I'm not saying that men don't have a hard time, but but I focus, my, my practice focuses on women, not because I don't like men let's put that clear here, let's make that really clear I, I have a husband of 34 years. I, you know, I'm a mother of. I mean, I'm a mother and the daughter of a man, and you know whatever, and you're putting them beautifully.

Speaker 3 1:02:57

I'm kidding two brothers and a son. I love men, um but um. Women go through a unique thing at midlife because we go through a triple transformation. One is physical, which is the obviously the perimenopause to postmenopause. The other part of the transformation is the psychological, which is the midlife reassessment. Men go through that as well. And then, because women's embodied experience of life is so tied to their bodies, their cycles, their hormones, their life experience, right those two together they can't be separated. They're like the warp and the woof of a tapestry.

Speaker 3 1:03:42

So when you pull on one, you snag the other, and because the transformation in those two is so profound, it generally creates a third transformation which I consider to be spiritual. So women are going through this triple transformation right.

Speaker 1 1:04:00

And I'm glad you addressed that. That was one of my questions, by the way. What is the triple transformation? Because I knew it didn't correlate with perimenopause, menopause and postmenopause. I thank you for that.

Speaker 3 1:04:10

Yeah, it's um, so it it ends up. It's so it it ends up being a time of life where we're dealing with women. Deal with seven realms of change. I've identified seven realms of change I use in my coaching right.

Speaker 1 1:04:24

Can you give it?

Speaker 3 1:04:25

Can you?

Speaker 1 1:04:26

squander those, or do we have to you?

Speaker 3 1:04:27

know I'll share them for sure. I'm like I want to hear them.

Speaker 2 1:04:31

Okay.

Speaker 3 1:04:32

There's the seven realms of change are you're changing body, you're changing self image, you're changing needs, you're changing feelings, you're changing roles, you're changing priorities and you're changing goals. I just hit all of those, all seven right now, and and they're like um you know, they're like intersecting circles, right um, like a venn diagram right yep and so and there's virginia at the center of all of them there you go, and I think this is about me, it is about you of.

Speaker 3 1:05:14

Of course it is. These are seven realms that women have to navigate. We have to navigate and sail through these realms, and this year one of those realms may be really easy and fair sailing for you, but in three years you're changing roles. Maybe the realm that gives you the hardest time right, and this year it may be the realm that gives you the hardest time Right, and this year it may be the realm of the body, and so it's, it's like a, it's a hologram that's continually moving and which realm you're in, or realms, plural you're in and dealing with at any one time, shift and change as you age. So the transformation that women go through, the triple transformation, is in all of these realms.

Speaker 1 1:05:59

Well, if I could play host, one of the questions I had was well, it's a two-parter One. What do you most often see in your practice of counseling? What are most women up against? And secondly, oh, did you have any? Have any surprises like what did you not expect women to be struggling with at that age? Oh, that's interesting um just start with the first one, I most often see what? Yeah, most often see what I most often see women.

Speaker 3 1:06:34

Women struggling with is um, trying to reclaim their identity after spending 20 to 30 years tending everybody else's garden yes their family, their spouse, their aging parents, their colleagues, their friends, their community, their church, whatever they're involved in.

Speaker 1 1:06:58

Being all things to all people all the time, and doing it with a smile right, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 1:07:02

And so those householder years from, say, 18 to 20, when we're first setting out and creating our own life to 45, right are so busy, are so busy, and women's hormonal profile right, and hormonal cycles in that time of life right, instinctively right, um, encourage them to care for. Right. Not every woman is the same. We can't, we can't say this about every woman, but in terms of physiological stages. And so we spend so much time doing all that. When we get to the phase where estrogen starts to walk out the door, our psychology changes. Even if women decide to do hormone therapy treatment right, the psychological shift happens just the same. Right, it's going to happen anyway. And so women are like saying, okay, who am I now? What do I want to do? Now? I have another 20 to 30 years ahead of me that my mother, my grandmother, whoever, never had. Who do I want to become? What do I want to become? What do I want to do? And so women that's what I encounter most often, as women saying what now?

Speaker 2 1:08:20

I must say I've ran into that quite a bit myself and it seems like when and and the most common thing that I hear too from a lot of the women is typically and I mean, and I've experienced this myself cause I'm right there, cause I'm turning 49 this year, I've experienced this myself, because I'm right there, because I'm turning 49 this year is your identity, has been this external identity, based off the things you're doing and you know, like being the wife to your spouse and being the mother to your children, and so that's kind of what's always identified who you are, even though internally you know there's more to you. That kind of gets suppressed. And I've heard so many women say that and I know for my own, my own life, especially in this past year. My husband kind of looks at me and is like make weird comments every so often and he's like where did that come from?

Speaker 2 1:09:06

For over 20 years, like you've never, you know, acknowledged that to me before and I'm like yeah, I did it back when we were first dating. You just don't remember. And so I finally told him. I said look, I said this bird's out of its cage. I'm spreading my wings, you can? Store nicks to me or I don't know what to tell you Right, well, but you've also.

Speaker 1 1:09:34

You've also hinted that and we agreed. You know, everybody wants to hold're no longer serving people right in their own, according to their needs. They don't want to allow you to grow, necessarily. But I think that's across the board, isn't it? Yeah?

Speaker 3 1:09:48

I think so. I mean it's a very unique second individuation. Yep unique second individuation so that, so that women have the opportunity to grow into their most authentic and fulfilled selves while living in the challenging time of change, of aging, of of limitations that happen for many women, most women as they age for societal and cultural pressures, you know, glass ceilings, career issues, those kinds of things, but that's, I would say, most often, it's women trying to reclaim who they are and what they want to do now.

Speaker 1 1:10:32

Yeah, well, that leads to a question. Actually, I've been biting my tongue a little bit. It sounds like on a personal level, and I think empty nest syndrome is just part of that. Right, if you're socialized to again put your needs last and be that mother or that caretaker or that dutiful wife, right, and you're silenced and erased, actually for the majority of your life, of course you're going to now assert whatever that essence was right. We have a lot of guests that say it was like coming home. I rediscovered my essence, and that includes your authentic gift that I would say. You are being called upon to contribute to the collective. But if you want to take it from the micro to the macro, I'm wondering, andrea, you know it's going to be different for every woman. You were meant to be a writer or share your stories. Whatever your authentic gifts are are what you're going to reclaim at this regency stage, I'm guessing. Is there?

Speaker 1 1:11:29

in your opinion right, right, ideally right. But is there a macro level? Do you have you noticed, noticed again in your practice or in your studies? Do you feel there's a role that women are supposed to be playing I hate that word. Supposed to be playing in culture, open a big gate.

Speaker 3 1:11:47

Yes, I, I think on a macro level looking at human history and looking at mythological history and um, I guess I would say archetypal, soul, right, psychology, right, you know, psyche is soul, ology is study of, um, I don't, I don't believe that this new life stage has emerged as a coincidence of course not that for thousands of years we've lived in a patriarchal construct. That's been what it's been. I'll just say briefly that patriarchy is a social construct that is damaging to everyone.

Speaker 1 1:12:43

Of course.

Speaker 3 1:12:45

And so, starting like in 1900, at the change of the century with, say, women's suffrage, moving up into, like the 1960s and 70s, and we have, you know, social change. We have feminism. We have spiritual feminism, the rise of the goddess movement. We have all these different, you know, all these different waves of feminism. I think we're in the fifth or sixth wave now, I'm not exactly sure which. Um. And so what has happened is, I believe, that the archetypal feminine, which is not feminine like gender, but the archetypal energies that young and depth psychologists and archetypal psychologists would say are compassion, creativity, empathy, receptivity, collaboration, communication and so on. There's a whole long list that these qualities of the archetypal feminine are on the rise at a time when we need to find a balance, like the yin and yang, between the archetypal and masculine and archetypal feminine right, if humans are going to survive as a species on this planet.

Speaker 1 1:14:12

Beautiful, yeah sorry, in the interest of time, I'm going to play host. I'm so glad you went into that because it's the perfect transition to something we both agreed we should get to. But I agree with that and I would add, like I mean, it's not news to any of us that patriarchy has run its course, right. When it leads to exploitation and marginalization, when it leads to colonization, when it leads to capitalist greed, which means ravaging of resources and we're going to have to find a new rock to live on, obviously we're ushering it out and it's obsolete, right? So when I said merging of binaries, I actually see it happening in a myriad of areas and I'm so glad you mentioned that. You know, typically or archetypally, feminine and masculine traits have nothing to do with gender. Thank you for saying that, right. Masculine and feminine is just a word and we have all of it in all of us. But maybe we all need to work on ourselves a little bit so that we embrace both sides and we buck socialization a little bit. I do think that's the path we're on. So the beautiful, the perfect transition here is the warrior goddess.

Speaker 1 1:15:24

So a moment ago I was going to say you know every archetype we talk about. I'm like let's talk about some examples, but there's just not time for all of it. So I do want to have you back on, if you're willing, and we're going to get a little more into specific archetypes, but if you would be willing to read the article that you did for medium, sure, absolutely a great way of talking about these, at least those three archetypes, and how they're actually really. You mentioned again you hit I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you've hinted at uh myth as being a great tool for your own personal growth and that I think maybe some of your what do you call them?

Speaker 3 1:16:03

The people you're coaching Clients.

Speaker 1 1:16:07

Clients I was looking for that word. Some of your clients probably have really had their eyes open to the power of myth to aid in one's personal journey. So I think maybe, if we talk about the wise old man and the tyrant and the return of the warrior, I said, princess, didn't I? The warrior queen. Maybe that'll be a it'll click for our listeners. You know just exactly how universal these archetypes are.

Speaker 3 1:16:32

Sure, sure, I'll start at the top, and if it runs too long you can cut me off. How's it start? How's it?

Speaker 1 1:16:37

We have a trap door. You don't know it. We had it installed in your All right.

Speaker 3 1:16:43

So this is currently on my new medium page, where I'm going to be writing some more as soon as I'm done taking care of my husband who just had a knee replacement surgery. But the title of the little post is called Vice President Kamala Devi Harris Respecting the Power of Myth in the Moment the Rise of the Archetypal Warrior, queen. Bill Moyers' interview with Joseph Campbell for the PBS program the Power of Myth rekindled my childhood interest in mythology, anthropology and archaeology. Campbell offered an eye-opening perspective that invited people worldwide to see their lives and cultures through a different lens. Mythology can give you a multi-level perspective on the events of the day. A mythological perspective invites you to look at daily life and global events from the top down, opening your mind to see the overstory, the great tale, instead of being battered, blinded and buried by billions of daily data points.

Speaker 3 1:17:49

The ending of President Joe Biden's candidacy and his endorsement of Kamala Harris catapulted my political perspective from the mundane into the mythic realm. I see the power of myth expressing itself in this political and cultural moment, focusing on the presidential race from a mythological and archetypal perspective. We've been caught in a dizzying whirlpool of conscious and unconscious powers and influences since 2015. As of today, we've been unable to escape from it. This year began with the archetypes of the tyrant king challenging the wise old man, and now the wise old man is bequeathing his place to the warrior queen, a dynamic representation of the rising return of the archetypal feminine. Now, make no mistake, I'm not talking about abstract intellectual principles that have no application in our daily lives. The archetype of tyrant king has revealed itself globally through the rise of far-right fascist political ideologies, wars, terrorism, fear-mongering, heightened racism, white supremacy, religious persecution, attacks on the rights of women and the LGBTQIA community, the denial of truth, science, climate change and the promotion of alternative facts and lives.

Speaker 1 1:19:10

Just that.

Speaker 3 1:19:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:19:12

Just that.

Speaker 3 1:19:13

The rise of the warrior queen archetype is a direct response from the collective unconscious, the psyche of humanity and the animal Monday, the world soul. At this time of existential crisis, life itself is calling for a fundamental rebalancing of powers and priorities. Vice President Harris, as a metaphoric warrior queen, is eminently powerful because she embodies the necessary qualities of leadership from both the archetypal feminine and the archetypal masculine. It's important to note that with these terms, I'm not referring to female and male genders as we've traditionally known them, but to deeper psychological and archetypal principles that are active in all humanity. The archetypal feminine qualities include skilled communication, collaboration, active intuition, sharp, well-honed instincts, creativity, the ability to be reflective, responsive, compassionate and empathetic. Additional aspects of the archetypal feminine are nurturance, loving, caretaking, protecting and being in tune with the cycles of nature and one's body. The warrior queen also embodies traditional male archetypal energies including leadership, logic, reason, restraint, rationality, order, structure, rhetoric and justice. I invite you to consider how Vice President Harris embodies all of these archetypal energies. I see her mythologically representing the rise of the warrior queen and the return of the archetypal feminine. This is a call for the return of power to half of humanity in a world that's been exploited to the brink of an existential crisis by thousands of years of patriarchy. To the brink of an existential crisis by thousands of years of patriarchy. It's a failed cultural system that oppresses all peoples and denies women their divinity and equality. Patriarchy represses, denies and vilifies the mythological power of the archetypal feminine in all humanity. Through her family, life and career, vice President Harris has been educated in and influenced by multiple mythological and religious traditions. This, combined with her education and career experience, give her the knowledge and unique skill set to meet this mythological and political moment. All of these factors combine to reveal the dawning of a new generation of feminine leadership, and just in time.

Speaker 3 1:21:39

In her personal life, kamala Vivi Harris is a mixed race woman. She was born to a South Asian mother and a father of African, afro-jamaican descent. She identifies as a Black woman and she is married and has two stepsisters, two stepdaughters, stepdaughters. Right Spiritual background she was raised in the Hindu tradition and the Black Baptist Church. Her husband is Jewish. Her stepdaughters call her Mamala, which is very close to the Yiddish term used as an endearment by children for their mother Mamala.

Speaker 3 1:22:14

Vp Harris knows the beauty and power within these three mythological religious traditions. Well, what's in a name? Kamala Harris means lotus in Sanskrit, the ancient language of the Hindu tradition, and Devi translates as goddess, divine, heavenly or anything of excellence. The Times of India writes, quote Kamala Devi. Harris has been blessed with a name that's packed with infinity and energy, that is, both Kamala and Devi. Close quote the lotus in this case is called the Saharasra and is located on the crown chakra. This 1,000 petal lotus, when opened, represents unbounded consciousness. Devi is one Hindu term for the Maha Devi, or great goddess, energy behind the creation of the universe, and the Devi incarnates as money goddesses, including warrior goddesses. The Tanakh has its share of celebrated warrior women. In the New Testament, jesus was born of a woman, first revealed himself to a woman, was attended by women on the cross and ultimately it was a woman who witnessed his resurrection and the birth of Christianity.

Speaker 3 1:23:23

Vice President Harris has a multi-mythic spiritual foundation that invokes the power of the feminine and inclusion within diversity In her career. Her career exemplifies her embodiment of archetypal masculine energies necessary for the warrior queen. She's highly educated, a lawyer. She's worked as the District Attorney of San Francisco, a US Senator, the Attorney General of the state of California. She's the first woman and the first black biracial person to serve as Vice President of the United States. Black biracial person to serve as Vice President of the United States.

Speaker 3 1:24:01

Vice President Harris is a shining example of Apollonian masculine archetypal energy. She embodies logic, law, rules, leadership, reason, rationality, order and the principles of justice in her life and work. These are applied through her support for women's reproductive freedom, women's rights. Children's rights are applied through her support for women's reproductive freedom, women's rights, children's rights, gun safety, children's health, safety and welfare advocacy, affordable child care, affordable health care, a living wage, criminal justice reform and a determination to rebuild the middle class. In her skills we see the warrior and how she applies them we see the queen, kamala Devi.

Speaker 3 1:24:35

Harris knows and embraces three of the major world mythologies and religions. The power of her experience in law and politics and her care and compassion for others are tailor-made to meet the moment. Mythologically, vice President Harris embodies a coalescence of archetypal energies representing some of the finest qualities of the archetypal, masculine and feminine, in leadership. In her, symbolically, I see the power of the Devi, the ancient, sacred feminine, reclaiming its rightful place in culture, allowing the US the opportunity to realign, readjust and reset our priorities as a nation and a world leader. We're standing at the threshold of change. We can feel the depth and breadth of this moment every day, as the energies of our collective unconscious boil over into aggressive attacks on our democracy, from an attempted coup to an attempted assassination. This is a highly charged political, cultural and psychological energy field to live in and lead from, full of positive potential and simultaneously fraught with danger. From within our collective shadow, the warrior queen archetype is invoked for just such a moment. What will happen next week or over the next 70 days?

Speaker 3 1:25:54

80, 90 days right Time will tell, but we are truly living in a mythic moment.

Speaker 1 1:26:02

Wow, nailed it, you nailed it. That's really inspiring to hear it laid out like that. And you nailed it, man, you're an expert in your field. Yeah, I can't say, I can't really add to that, but thank you for sharing it. I mean I, I guess it might be worth saying because, yeah, we should come to a close soon.

Speaker 1 1:26:22

But I mentioned earlier that you know different belief systems or I don't know, different lenses through which you can view this process right the individual evolution of the spirit, and then the macro, the cultural evolution. To me, I get in trouble for talking about Hegel's dialectic, but I think you mentioned, it's no mistake that she emerged, right, and I do feel like you can look at it through a spiritual lens if you like, a philosophical lens or a very empirical, newtonian lens. And I would say epigenetics is teaching us more and more that you know there is a component of non-local energetic communication and that we are all right, entangled, and consciousness is out to propagate, the human race is out to propagate. So, yes, nothing if you, you know, buy into hegel's dialectic a little bit. Um, yeah, history chews people up and spits them out and uses them and sometimes, oops, it's a hitler, right, but it's actually needed in the dialectic in our evolution.

Speaker 1 1:27:28

So I would just agree 100. It's no mistake that she emerged as the warrior queen at this moment, because, yeah, it's pretty clear, patriarchy has run its course. Are we preaching? Am I preaching now?

Speaker 3 1:27:41

no, I don't think so. I I. I think it's. The thing that's so fascinating to me about myth and about story is that when we look at what's going on in the world from a mythological perspective, like that article that I just shared, thank you it allows us like to look at the great tale from the top down I loved over story.

Speaker 1 1:28:06

I actually didn't know that word and I it refers to the about right the canopy of a of the trees yes I love it. I love it because it's got its metaphor right. It's not, it's a figurative use of the word. Really.

Speaker 3 1:28:21

Yeah, and so the whole idea and everything that I do in my work and my whole love of mythology as a life practice is that it allows you to see your life and what's going on in the world from the top down, instead of being under it all Right. We're. We can feel like we're under it, Like we're under a hot, wet blanket.

Speaker 1 1:28:46

Well, right, I like the term meta self. Like, on an individual level we can't always have objectivity about ourselves or lucidity or clarity, but some people do, uh, nurture and meta self a little more than others. But societally, you know, I would say like in the 90s you had all those talk shows where we took everything that had been swept under the carpet and put it under a microscope. So we're on the right path, I think, right where we're willing to talk about these things. Virginia, before I sort of bring it to a close, what did you think of that article Number one? Amazing, right.

Speaker 2 1:29:19

Yeah, I love how you tied it all together and gave it a different perspective that was outside of the propaganda side of things.

Speaker 1 1:29:31

Yeah, I don't think that was a political piece at all. It's a human piece, isn't?

Speaker 2 1:29:35

it. Exactly. That's what I liked about it piece at all.

Speaker 1 1:29:39

It's a human piece, isn't it? Exactly that's what I liked about it. Yeah, any questions for her? Should we kind of slowly bring this to a close, with the caveat that we would?

Speaker 2 1:29:45

love to have you back, by the way. Yeah, absolutely no, I don't have any questions. I think that was just such a great ending point right there.

Speaker 1 1:29:50

I do too. Yeah, let's not spoil a good thing, Andrea. Is there any final word of wisdom you would like to share with listeners before we wrap it up?

Speaker 3 1:29:58

I think we've covered it all. All I can say is you know, looking at and reading your book Language of the Soul, conversations like this are food for the soul.

Finding Wisdom and Creating New Narratives

Speaker 1 1:30:07

Oh my God, I agree. It keeps me motivated. I'll tell you that it's really easy to give up on humanity. The planet throw in the towel, and this podcast helps me renew my hope. I guess right and um, thank god for kindred spirits like you. You were the ideal guest, by the way, not that you're a thing of the past, but you have been the ideal guest well thank you, it's my pleasure to be here with both you and virginia. It's been awesome thank you so much. All, then, Virginia, final words of wisdom.

Speaker 2 1:30:41

Basically, you know, to just always look for beyond just what's in front of you, to to see what is being trying to be said to you in the universe, and then, of course, to always, you know, play it forward, don't, don't wallow in the details.

Speaker 1 1:30:59

Love it. Yeah, let's look beyond the end of our nose. All right, and to our listeners, thank you so much and remember life is story. Individually and collectively, we can get our hands in the clay. We can tell a new story. See you next time.