Survival Skills with 'Changing Earth' Author Sarah Hathaway

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When the systems we depend upon collapse, will you have the skills to survive? What if the true key to resilience isn't stockpiling supplies but building community and reclaiming forgotten knowledge?

Meet Sarah F. Hathaway, author of the Changing Earth series, who joins us to challenge conventional wisdoms about preparedness and self-sufficiency. Unlike many post-apocalyptic storytellers, Sarah deliberately creates relatable characters who demonstrate how ordinary people can develop extraordinary resilience.

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Transcript

Introduction to Author Sarah Hathaway

Speaker 1 0:45

Sarah F Hathaway is an author, martial artist, mother and wife, passionate about empowering others through storytelling. Her Changing Earth series novels weave post-apocalyptic adventures with survival skills, showing how fragile our modern society is and how mental resilience can triumph in crisis. Raised in Michigan's woods and now thriving in East Texas' piney forests, Sarah draws from her homesteading life with her husband and two boys, cherishing hiking and camping. Beyond writing, she teaches self-defense and anti-kidnapping seminars, produces the Changing Earth audio drama and hosts the Changing Earth podcast. Blending fiction with practical wisdom, Sarah's work inspires confidence to face any challenge. Welcome, Sarah Hathaway.

Speaker 2 1:32

Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here.

Speaker 1 1:34

Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 1:35

Yes, thank you for being here.

Speaker 1 1:37

So, as Virginia hinted at, I'm going to ask a rote question that we've been asking at the top of every episode and basically in the spirit of our podcast what do you feel has been the?

Speaker 2 1:56

traditional role of storytelling and culture and part B has that evolved over time and experiences so that we as the next generation can learn from our elders, from what they went through without having to stumble down the same roadblocks that they did now, whether we translate and actually comprehend those stories? As um, you know, another topic, but I think teaching skills, other topic, but I think teaching skills, teaching moral values, that's really has been the primary importance of storytelling to tell the news, and I don't know that it's evolved too much over time. We're telling a lot of the same stories in different ways. I love that.

Speaker 3 2:45

Oh, I love it.

Speaker 1 2:46

I think you're one of the first people who said that we have had no, we had one other person at least say I don't know, it was josh. Joshua, yeah, said it has not evolved now the form right, the formats, the techniques, the genres, the sub genres. Maybe that changes, but yeah, he was pretty convinced. Anyway, I don't want to jump in, but you can look at the shakespearean templates and there's a reason. They still encapsulate the human condition perfectly. We don't evolve that quickly.

Speaker 2 3:13

Yeah, yeah. And I think they're so important and kind of so formatted you know, I don't know that format, it's the right word but just they they just resonate so deeply with us that there's not really a need to change it.

Speaker 1 3:28

Yeah, and I would add that's where the Virginia you know me, that's where the resonance comes in, right when we get to rely on those old, tried and true templates of whether it's the Greek tragedies or the Shakespearean templates. I think that's where the resonance lies, because it's in our cellular memory. Okay, Virginia.

Speaker 3 3:46

Yeah, no, I agree. Okay, yeah, no, I agree. So with that cause I know your series you. It focuses on nature and survival stories and again, you know there's a lot to to learn from people who go through those situations the law of symbolism and just life in general that you can tie to that even if you haven't been in a disaster or a loss type scenario. I I'm curious, in your series you have your character, erica, who's a main character that's in there. Tell us a little about her and and like how that ties to the stories that we kind of tell ourselves when we're in those situations. Like how, how do you liken those together?

Speaker 2 4:35

So Erica, I wanted her to be very relatable as a character, not like an over the top superhero, because I wanted everybody to feel that this was information that they could take and apply to their life. So if you remember Erica doing, you know some skill, whether it be like butchery or how to start a fire, or her herbal healing. Those are things you can actually apply to your life. Those are things you can actually apply to your life when she's in a situation where she has to use self-defense or something like that. Again, it's not anything that's like a spectacular move.

Speaker 2 5:17

Now, granted, she is the hero. So you know, there's a lot of times in my stories when she's not the hero and she has this really big support network to help her out support network to help her out. And so I think that a lot of our stories kind of overemphasize the hero and not enough of the community that's there to support them. And so I really wanted to make her relatable on that level as, like any woman could be, like, yeah, I could do that, I don't have to be a super woman, I don't have to be, you know, some incredible superhero, I can do those. I could get myself out of this mess as long as I slow down and think and apply some skills that all of us have.

Speaker 3 6:01

Right and I know in like your bio, it brings up the fact that you've got the background in martial arts and I know that's like a big thing with within the martial arts community too and the fact that they pass down those traditions, those stories about having strength. But it's also the support of you know, your sensei, that that you learn, you know very I don't want to say tropes, but very metaphoric type understanding of life in general. So it's not just like, oh, I'm you know just self-defense and you know how to protect myself if somebody bad comes up. Um, does that track for you? I mean, I'm just kind of curious, what, what takeaways did you get in that learning those skills?

Speaker 2 6:49

One of the hugest takeaway for martial arts is the mental fortitude, much more so than anything you can do with your body. It's the mental fortitude and, uh, you know, 90% of winning a self-defense situation is going to be that mental fortitude. And so is awareness awareness right, I mean your heads up, you're looking around, you're paying attention to life instead of staring at a phone Right Right. No but we?

Speaker 1 7:18

we've also I've heard it said by some of our guests actually that, um, you know, yoga, it's very trendy, but it's not just something you do to relieve stress, it's a whole lifestyle and a spiritual practice. So isn't that true of martial arts as well? It's very trendy, but it's not just something you do to relieve stress, it's a whole lifestyle and a spiritual practice. So isn't that true of martial arts as well? It's a whole philosophy.

The Role of Storytelling in Culture

Speaker 2 7:36

Yeah, getting your black belt is not about reaching your black belt. It's about reaching the level where you're able to self-practice. Now You're well wearing they put a black collar on them a lot of times as well because you're wearing the yoke of responsibility. Now you've been trained to the point where you should understand the mental fortitude, you should understand the discipline and the integrity as a martial artist to be able to apply that to life. And one of my favorite groups of people to teach are elderly and women and elderly just because you can watch them come in and they're going oh well, I'm too old to do this and I'm too old to do that. And then, just through practice and stick-to-itiveness, now their body's doing things that they didn't imagine they could do again and that's wonderful to watch. It's amazing.

Speaker 1 8:29

I have to. Sorry, virginia, you knew I was going to jump in, but you know, our life experience always comes in like what? What literally just happened today? And there's a beautiful synchronicity to that. But I I'll try to make it short. I saw a puppy in my neighborhood. Bowie wanted to go up and meet a puppy and he was kind of amped to play, so I let him and he comes on a little strong. But I quickly realized the puppy was paralyzed and the little wheels were sitting there next to his daddy, but I didn't see them at first. But he he got around pretty good and they played in close proximity very well and I even commented well, he does pretty well without the wheels.

Speaker 1 9:05

I get home and my friend Ramin we exchange little, you know, viral videos pretty regularly and he put one in there of a paralyzed dog, no front legs. Now the other one had. It was a spinal injury, not dysplasia or anything hip related, but anyway, I get home and he sent me this beautiful video of this puppy, just through example, inspiring the other puppy to stand up on its hind legs and function, and so I wrote back like, oh my God, I mean it's tears. It brought tears to both of us, but I said partially because it just shows the. It illustrates how, when you don't have an example of what's possible, you don't reach for your full potential and capacity. But permission, example, right, inspiration is everything in life. I don't know if that made sense.

Speaker 2 9:50

It does. We paint ourself into our own boxes, we impose our own limitations.

Speaker 2 9:56

Yes, we believe we have this area. We have to stay in spiritually, mentally, physically. We believe we put these limitations on ourself and tell ourself, oh, we can't do that, we're not able to do that. And I'm here to tell you that's not true. I'm five foot, nothing. I'm a hundred and nothing. I've gone up against 300 and some odd pound people and you just have to think beyond the box. Everybody's always told me oh, you're too small to do that, you can't do that. You're a woman. You can't do that. You have knee problem. You can't do that. You can't do those martial arts. I mean, you're going to. You know all these things are going to happen to you and I went okay, well, watch me.

Speaker 1 10:39

I love it. We have, we have, we impose our own limitations. But society, parental expectations, we internalize a lot of these limiting thought forms, right. But I don't know. I would say maybe when we're very young the world is our oyster and socialization teaches us all of our limits, right. But then at some point when we self-create, we can reclaim them and reclaim our agency. But I relate to you because much of what I've quote unquote, accomplished in life is I'm a rebel. I'm a rebel without a cause. So I manifested despite. I manifested despite. Is that a good motivator?

Speaker 2 11:14

Yeah, I think, um, you know, I went to Catholic school. They told me what I had to wear on my body, they told me all these things, what I had to be, and I was just not any of those things, and so I had to learn that you know what I'm a powerful woman, and I'm okay with it.

Speaker 1 11:28

You know Catholicism, you and Madonna. Man, there's a lot to rebel against.

Speaker 2 11:33

My aunt actually went to school with Madonna and Racha. Oh really, yeah, yeah, that's great, but yeah you know, I just never wanted to play inside the box, and that's just so. Now I'm much more on a spiritual journey as well, and being able to enlighten yourself to the next level and next level. You just cannot believe the boxes that society has there for you.

Speaker 1 11:59

Well.

Speaker 3 12:01

I was going to say that ties a lot to you know, like what we've talked in past episodes on our podcast, and then even like for myself, studying health, um, I'm like, I'm looking at the modality called narrative therapy. Obviously, you know cause I like writing, Um, but both you and both you and Don touched on this.

Speaker 3 12:22

It's not just the things that we're told we can't do, it's the stories that we're born into. It's the stories that we start to tell ourselves because of that. What society tells us and I love the fact that you know your team, which is one of the reasons why we reached out to you to come on the podcast is because you're teaching people how to rewrite, reframe those narratives that they have been surrounding themselves by. And I know martial arts teaches that.

Speaker 3 12:51

My husband's actually a second degree black belt in Taekwondo. He does not like ever saying that, but he will go out and he'll do his forms, even though he doesn't do any of the competitions or anything anymore. Right, and I always ask him, but he always tells me he's like cause it mentally helps clear me and grounds me, and it's such an interesting process to not that he likes being watched when he does them because he doesn't. But, um, how it is very spiritual, it's very physical, Um, the mental attuity that comes with it. It's just, it's an amazing thing to watch and such it's more than what people think it is Cause like, oh, it's fighting, no, it's no.

Speaker 2 13:33

So I'm a pretty high amped person. If you haven't, if you haven't caught onto that yet, they call me the fireball, you know.

Speaker 2 13:41

I'm 110% all the time or I'm not going to do it at all. So everybody was like oh well, you need to find peace and you need to learn to meditate. Well, for me, sitting still and trying to meditate is like you might as well stick needles under my fingertips. It's very, very difficult. There's like 80 other things running through my brain and things I could be doing and this and that. So when I do my martial, I'm also taekwondo, and when I do the forms, I can still my mind into the movements and let my body move in that practiced way that it knows I don't even have to think about, and it's very calming of course.

Speaker 1 14:26

Yeah, I'm going to jump in. I'm a big proponent of meditation and I do that too meditate, meditate, like it's the answer to everything. But I've also said out of the other corner of my mouth that we can get in the zone in any number of ways, right, artists, when they play in air paint, the mental chatter dissolves, you become I'm using the word awareness, right, but your awareness is heightened and you're in I think it's gamma, gamma wave mode. So, whatever your church is, you know, I was singing Ave Maria in my car one day and I thought, oh my God, how is that different than chanting or meditation? I arrived in that space, right, where the mental chatter dissolves, and they call it stillness. So I say, get there, however you can, but if you are antsy, meditation may not be it, right I?

Speaker 2 15:10

say get there however you can, but if you are antsy, meditation may not be it Right, yeah, and I mean I have, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 2 15:13

Like I was, I've been able to exhibit more emotional control and learn to um foresee emotions before they're setting in, because I had problems with anger and whatnot. Uh, fighting was my way of like putting that into a productive area and then learning to control it there. For example, my third degree black belt test, my instructor puts me up against one of the most difficult, biggest fighters in the school. We're doing brawling, so, like I use a lot of footworks, you can't do that there. You have to just stand in one spot, basically, and go at it. Then he puts me up against a 12 year old kid who's one of my favorite little students that I would never want to hurt, ever Right. And then I go back against one of the other best kids at the school, who's a huge kid and all that. So the mental fortitude to be able to go from I am operating at a hundred percent survival mode got to destroy this person in front of me to now I have to operate at a hundred percent control, control that emotion.

Speaker 2 16:19

Be careful, you know, not hurt this kid to go back to a hundred billion, you know million miles an hour. I was so angry that he did that to me, but in retrospect I was like, wow, I controlled it, look what I can do. And it's just translated to life.

Speaker 1 16:39

Well, that's even yoga. I used to joke like it's about finding your center while being in excruciating pain, Right, and so if you can, for example, just finding your stillness and your inner peace and wellbeing in prison, for example, that's you can find it there, you can find it anywhere. So yeah. I'm just offering that. It's this if, even if you can't meditate, don't beat yourself up about it because you were doing it. You're doing it in your martial arts anyway, and then through prayer.

Speaker 2 17:08

But what I was going to say is how we kind of put ourselves in these boxes. So how have I avoided the box? And I think one of the biggest ways that I avoid the box is by learning. I love to learn and I'm constantly trying to learn new things, and if I don't know about something I'm going to figure it out. And so I think that urge to keep learning keeps you in that childlike brain where you're more willing to accept that and at least listen and ponder things that might be outside of your box. You might be like that's not my tribe, that's not my thing, that's not my deal, but if you're always open to learning, then you're always open to listening and you're always willing to learn, even if it's what's not to do from somebody.

Erica's Journey and Community Support

Speaker 2 18:00

I mean, you're going to talk to a rapist, okay, you're going to learn. What did they target, what did they go after? How can I use his information to help other people? So you got to just keep learning and it keeps you in that childlike brain. And Jesus said you know, come to me as a child, don't come to me bitter, come to me, you know, warped, come to me as a child, and that's the way I've been able to go. Yeah, I'm going to stay childlike, I'm going to bounce around, I'm going to have fun, and that's me.

Speaker 3 18:35

Yeah, it's having that curiosity in life which is, you know, I think, amazing because you've done a lot of things. I mean you, you teach, you do your martial arts, you're writing your series. So I'm just kind of curious what got you into the writing realm and and directing a lot of the energy you have and that curiosity, that childlike brain, into the writing that you're doing with your series?

Speaker 2 18:52

so I really suck at drawing and, uh, I needed some way. I liked drawing, but I needed some way to express my emotion, um, just kind of to myself. So I always, always did poetry. I would translate, you know what I was feeling my parents going through difficult times, things like that or translate that into poetry. And uh, no, I haven't shared any of that.

Speaker 2 19:15

I don't know, but it's there on the shelf somewhere for my kids to find one day. But, um, when I went to college, my instructor was like you write too flowery, you can't write like this, you have to just write meat and potatoes. I was like, oh, there's no expression there, there's no fun there. So one of my favorite authors is Gene M Auel, and it's the Clan of the Cave Bear series. Children of the Earth series. Yeah, clan of the Cave Bear was the first one.

Speaker 1 19:45

Do you remember what year that came out? Oh gosh, it was the 60s sometime oh really, I remember my mom reading it, just didn't daryl hannah, yes yeah, they did. My mom read it right around the time the movie came out.

Speaker 2 19:57

Yeah, so I started with the second book. I actually liked the second book way better. I went back to the first book just to see like, okay, well, how well, how did the story begin? If I would have started there, I doubt I would have liked the series as much. But she put so much actual knowledge into her books and that's where I started learning about herbal healing and I was like having stomach problems myself and they wanted me to be on all these pills and I'm like I'm an athlete, I kick butt from morning to night Like my body's not bad because of lack of your pills, right, you know, and they're making me feel horrible. And then I had a doctor tell me like, oh well, it's because you're a woman, you're a hypochondriac.

Speaker 1 20:36

Oh shit.

Speaker 2 20:38

I play ice hockey, I do martial arts. Like you're right, You're about to eat a fistful of your own teeth. So I threw out all the pills out the window and so my book came together, because I needed that expressive moment to be able to express what was going on. I was going down to school at Sac State. My family was up in the foothills. I was like what would happen if I was down here when something happened up there and then, out of my respect for how Jean did her books, I was like I grew up country.

Speaker 2 21:16

I grew up hunting and fishing and growing gardens and horseback riding and really reading Narnia. I had my own secret space where I wished I could have gone into the wardrobe, you know, and so much of this was just part of me and I'm watching people grow further and further and further away from nature and not know how to grow a thing, not know the beauty of walking through the woods, not know the peace and tranquility of being out there and just listening to the birds instead of your iPad in your ears, you know. So that was really really disconcerting to me and I was like look at all the skills that we're losing. People don't even know like okay, so you're, you're stuck now and you actually are able to hunt something so you can eat. Do you know how to properly break it down so you don't poison yourself? Nobody has that skill anymore you remember y2k, right?

Speaker 1 22:11

yeah, oh yeah yeah, it turned out to be nothing, but I was even back back then I joked like no people would not know how to rub two sticks together to start a fire, like, and we're only more dependent on our gps now, like we're screwed, basically yes, so you go out in the woods, you're able to kill a deer for your family, and now you eat as much as you can, but you can't eat that whole animal all at once.

Speaker 2 22:36

Now what do you do? What do you do with it? You're just going to let it rot there. That could have been days of food if you knew how to break it down and prepare it right so that was kind of my point of, of bringing that the education together with that incredible story, and I never intended to publish it. But, um, when I finished it, my mom was like you wrote a whole book, you gotta, you gotta publish it. So I did, and here I am, 10 books later.

Speaker 3 23:01

Wow, yeah, well, and the thing is, it seems like a lot of people I don't want to say everybody, cause obviously that's not the case, but there does seem to be this cultural shift amongst a few people trying to get back to our I know um don't want me to say it many times on our podcast and just even personally, where I'm like I need to go outside and touch some grass, because I need to get away from my computer for like a few minutes and get out in nature and just feel the sun on my face, and so do you have a lot of people reaching out to you that have read your books or, like I want to, you know, do you teach survival classes or any of that kind of stuff? Because it seems like some people are trying to get back to our roots to some degree, back our original stories of who we are as a society, as humans.

Speaker 2 23:49

Yeah, so with my podcast, the Changing Earth podcast, I literally break down my books. I do a chapter of my book and then I take the survival lesson that was in that chapter and we expound upon it. So it might be shelter building and it might be how to butcher, but it also might be how to be a leader, how to deal with the PTSD of you know some kind of incident. So we walk through, you know, chapter by chapter. I've done all of my books on there except for the last one. I'm not sharing that one, you got to read it yourself but yeah, it was an incredible journey. I'm like episode 450, some odd now, and we've explored a lot of topics out of it.

Speaker 2 24:32

And to me, I know money is important. I got it Like I work my 40 hour work week and everything but my self-defense teaching and my anti-idnapping classes. I only ask for donations. All of my information is free. I mean you can go onto my website and learn so many skills that you want to learn and you can walk through my podcast chapter by chapter of all the books and get all the information. And yeah, you know I probably should be charging or something like that, but I just felt called that it was my mission to help people prepare.

Speaker 2 25:09

And then, in 2020, when COVID went down, when I first started out on my author journey, I had this one lady that you know we're from two different walks of life here I am with Day After Disaster and she's got her book on picking dog names, so, but we did booths together and we got along really well and everything, and she read my book and then she reached out to me after the pandemic and she was. She only had one lung from a surgery that she had to have done and she was like you know, sarah, because of you and your work and your book, you opened my eyes up and I prepared and I had enough food to make it through that whole pandemic without having to put myself at risk by going to the grocery store, and I just really wanted to reach out and say thank you. And so that to me, like I mean, can you pay for that? No, that's, you know that's. That's worth more than gold.

Speaker 3 26:02

Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I think that's what really ties us into that human connection and the need to share our stories with each other, because we all can learn something that we didn't know before. I mean, that's the whole reason why we started the podcast was because of Dominic's book, which he actually wrote during the pandemic as well and named the podcast after. Are you going to say anything about that, nick?

Speaker 1 26:28

Well, just that, I think it's beautiful. I mean, I don't know how often you get the validation that you're making a difference with people, but that feedback is everything if it's a calling or a ministry right, and I'm kind of fascinated. You know, I know that I had not an origin story. I didn't come to have some. You know the clouds didn't part and you know, I know, that I had not an origin story. I didn't come have some. You know the clouds didn't part and you know beams of light didn't come streaming down well, but it is.

Mental Fortitude Through Martial Arts

Speaker 1 26:52

I do frame it as a brush with death. It changes everything and it changes your perspective and you know your priorities, so suddenly connecting your voice with the sense of purpose becomes very important. So we have had a lot of guests right virgin, who identify as such that absolutely there's a reason. It was put on the front burner for me and so you gave us a lot of background there and I love how your love of the Narnia Chronicles, for example, kind of got married with your drive to share information. But it sounds way more personal. And you hinted at PTSD and I'm also noticing in one of your answers here I can't help but think about that Naomi Watts movie with the tsunami. Did either of you see that?

Speaker 3 27:37

I haven't, but I know when you're talking about it. I wanted to see it.

Speaker 1 27:40

I forget the name of it and I just felt like for sure you'd relate to that, because she didn't know what she was capable of, right, but she rose to the occasion and had superpowers, and but I'm not sure what the main theme with that movie was. I think it was the driving force of love, and you know Tonga talked about that too that resilience and perseverance is often driven by love your connection right To your children or your family, whatever. Anyway, I'm all over the place here, but I just wonder if there was a specific moment where everything came together for you, and was it a come to Jesus moment or something less distinct? What, in your background, made you want to empower people with the information that you're presenting in a narrative format?

Speaker 2 28:24

I don't know, yeah, I mean, like I said I just started, that you're presenting in a narrative format. I don't know, yeah, I mean, like I said I just started, it took me eight years to do, a day after disaster, and it was just, it was just always there, it was just my. I guess it was because I was doing the mental pushups of the thought process of this is the world we live in. What if, tomorrow, we lived in this world and it just sounds like everything came together.

Speaker 2 28:55

Things were germinating, but it all came together, yeah.

Speaker 2 28:59

One of the like first stories you're going to come upon in my book. A day after disaster, a woman's being raped and Erica comes upon the scene and she has the option Like, do I walk away? And I've I got? I need to get home to my family. Am I going to put my life at risk for this lady that I don't even know what is the mental? You know what the mental pushup of that for me was like. Okay, those are the things I want to explore with my my own psyche, and then put them into a book.

Speaker 2 29:33

And so she does help. Of course I would help you know I'm not going to, but she does help and a spoiler but she can't save the lady, but her daughter is right there in the bushes. So she ends up saving the child and if she would have walked away, that child would have been left for who knows what.

Speaker 1 29:54

So you know it was just all things like that.

Speaker 2 29:57

Yeah, that I was like I really need to explore that.

Speaker 1 30:00

Virginia, I wanted you to jump in. I know there's you have plenty to say about this, but to me I've said on this podcast, virginia, many times we write thinking we're addressing certain you know, certain themes or imparting something, but often we are working out stuff inside and we're coming up with policy. That's how I put it. Like when I finish a even a short story, I go, okay, now I can move on to the next chapter.

Speaker 1 30:24

It literally in life, because I've worked through it and I now have a policy. Anyway, virginia, you can play psychologist if you want, but I just I think it's beautiful. I'm not judging or anything. I love when our personal experience drives us to share what we've learned, if that makes sense, or go ahead, virginia, so sorry.

Speaker 3 30:45

No, no, you're fine. No, this is the whole point of our podcast, as we all bounce off of each other. Um, well, and I was going to say, too, what I love about the the work that your books, that you're putting out too, is even though you're working out things, it's also making those who are picking it up as readers making them stop.

Speaker 3 31:02

I, I, when I used to teach writing um, like writing 101 for new, uh, writers, for children seeing adults, one of the first things I always told them in class is, when you go home tonight, I want you to go stand in front of your mirror and I want you to take a hard look at yourself and not just look at your reflection and go yeah, of course, that's what I look like.

Speaker 3 31:20

Oh, yeah, I guess I should probably get a haircut today or whatever, or I need to shave, but it was always like you know, really look into your eyes and really look to see if you know the person. That's that you're looking, that's reflecting back at you, and it's because I think, as writers, until we start asking us ourselves those hard questions, how can we put that into our own writing and ask readers which it sounds like you're doing, and I don't know if anyone's ever said it this way, but you're making them stop and have to take that hard look at themselves by what you're putting in front of them in your writing and go gosh. How would I handle that situation?

Speaker 2 32:01

yeah, I um write the town auburn that I used to live right by there, write that in my stories. You know the first book is all around the town auburn in california and, like one of my friends, she's like I went down to a Auburn after reading your book and I'm crying because I'm like picturing your world, everything that's happened here. And you know she was literally crying and I was like, well, I'm sorry. She's like no, no, don't be. It's made me really think.

Speaker 1 32:30

Do you get that feedback? Often I've said to comfort myself like, yeah, my book is not the next Harry Potter. Sure, I think it deserves to be the next alchemist printed in more languages than the Bible. I believe my work should reach everybody, but sometimes you just have to go. You know what, if it changed one heart and, I jokingly say, a cornfield in Iowa, my job is done. So is that enough for you? Or do you hear that? Do you feel like you're making a difference on a large scale? How often do you get that kind of feedback?

Speaker 2 33:00

Um, so not as often as I'd like. I always tell people like, please get ahold of me. Um, I've had some people that have become like lifelong friends. Um, my co-host actually on my podcast. We met because he started reading my books and then I'm totally available to reach out to you. And so he started reaching out to me like as he was reading them, and then he'd be like oh no, you're not going to do that.

Speaker 3 33:26

Oh, you know how dare you yeah?

Speaker 2 33:29

And that was the he that you know we have a lifelong friendship. Now I go visit him every year was the he that you know we have a lifelong friendship. Now I go visit him every year and it's you know, that was probably the most rewarding experience. I'm always like, feel free to reach out to me as you're reading my work. I love to hear like I can't believe you did this or that or you know, and so I do love that. I totally understand. It's really hard for us as authors because, like we don't get to look through their computer at like what their facial expressions are, you know?

Speaker 1 33:58

Well, I call it. I call it the completion of the circuit. Right, there's seven models for the creative process and my sister and I compare notes and we just think there should be a version that talks about does it collect dust under your bed? Does it change one heart? Does it change the world, you know, and it doesn't have to do with your desired outcome, it's the real completion of the circuit.

Speaker 1 34:20

So I'm just feeling my age and I'm feeling legacy is becoming more and more important. So I worked on fucking, sorry, fucking Lion King dude. So do you think any one of my 22 nieces and nephews have ever asked me a thing about it or picked my brain Like, I'm just getting older, I love it. Well, it's just the odd grown man in an Uber who will go dude, that was my favorite movie as a kid and I'm like but you're a grown man and it seems like yesterday to me, but I live for that. You know I'm not getting it from my nieces and nephews. I keep saying that. I should stop saying that. But it means everything to me that you know that moment in time. We put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into that film and God knows, it went global. But you don't hear it, you don't hear it very often.

Speaker 2 35:06

Yeah, no, it was definitely a classic, it's definitely a classic around our house for sure.

Speaker 2 35:17

I think that people actually feel like, well, I don't want to burden you and it's like man, burden away. I'm good, you know, community is so important and uh, I'm, I'm this like preparedness journey. So I published my book and everybody's like, oh, you're a prepper, you're a survivalist. I'm like what the heck is that? You know, what are you even talking about? I just wrote a book. You know, country girl.

Speaker 2 35:38

I will say I'm a country girl, I grew up country, I mean, that's, that's it. I wasn't in no city. I don't want to live in a city. So, pardon my French there. But you know the idea of people when they they kind of go on this preparedness journey, quote unquote they're like, well, I'm going to live by myself, I'm going to, you know, have enough stuff in my house that I'm going to be at my house and we're going to stay by ourself. My game plan was I'm going to go out in the woods and I know how to survive out there. I'm going to live out in the woods and you don't think about like the billion other people that are going to be stopping through the woods, but that's not here or there, but with your family, right?

Speaker 2 36:18

Well, the simple fact is you can't do it alone. It takes a tribe. You can't grow food and guard food at the same time. With only four people it does not work.

Speaker 2 36:31

You cannot have a community without people and you need a community for a family, and so that has been my whole um grand epiphany. Probably over this process was the. The thing that, uh, really changed the most in me was probably it takes a community and we need to have our local community. We need to have local food grown, we need to have localized systems again, without all this national systems or global systems right, All our food is traveling so far to get to us. If we had local food, we'd all be healthier, We'd all be eating better and we'd be available to help out other communities when things happen there.

Speaker 1 37:17

So it sounds like there's just all centralized. Yeah, it sounds like people go to the extreme right. Maybe libertarians who want to live off grid have fantasies right about what it means to be sustainable and to be a naturalist, but you still need a community right.

Speaker 2 37:33

You still need that community Absolutely. You can't just sit out in the woods by yourself.

Speaker 1 37:37

Yeah, isolationism, but I think that's coming to a head to this. Even in terms of globalism versus nationalism, we're having to think about these things. But, virginia, you mentioned too there's kind of this movement toward yeah, getting touching grass, as you put it. In Japan there's entire right cat cafes or they go out and literally hug trees in groups. I think that's got to be gaining momentum too, this getting back to nature idea.

Speaker 2 38:07

Yeah well, there's a lot of changes that are coming with our Earth. We're in the middle of a pole shaft right now. You can see the extreme weather out your door if you study the cycles of what our planet does.

Speaker 1 38:22

We're in for a rocky time and I'm in and you're not talking about climate change, or are you talking about a natural, because we're in the middle of an ice age, right?

The Importance of Local Community Systems

Speaker 2 38:29

cycle, right, the natural cycle of our planet. Whether humans helped it, we had an impact. Whatever you know, you could have a series of volcanoes erupt and that's going to be more damage than we've ever done as a species. So I'm just saying there is a natural cycle to our planet. Right now we are headed for a rockier time. That is the plain and simple of it. Our bigwigs are all having bunkers, things like that. I don't really believe in having a bunker because I don't want to be in the ground when things. I'll meet my maker if that's the way it's going to go, whatever. But we're in for a rockier time and I'm in the insurance industry and we have disaster after disaster after disaster after disaster that we're dealing with right now. I just don't know how it's going to keep up Right. So in my books I really bring the planet as that antagonist. It becomes its own character.

Speaker 1 39:28

That's a classic template. Man versus nature is one of the classic conflicts, right.

Speaker 2 39:33

Yeah, so that's what you know. I don't want zombies, I don't want any of these things Like this is real.

Speaker 1 39:39

This is life.

Speaker 2 39:40

This is where we're going, and if we don't go and touch a tree, if we don't know how to grow a plant, if we don't know how to sustain our families then or in our communities, then we could be in big trouble when the national network, the global network, starts shutting down. We don't have.

Speaker 1 39:59

We have a scare. Do you feel like we have a scare every now and then when entire power grids go down and it's never terrorism, right?

Speaker 2 40:06

But no, no, no. Um, we do have our met. The magnetic shielding of our planet is weakening it is scientifically proven that the magnetic shielding of our planet right now is weakening. That means that any kind of activity that comes off of our sun is going to have a bigger impact on our planet than it ever did before.

Speaker 1 40:27

Is it radioactive or what would the solar?

Speaker 2 40:30

It's a coronal mass ejection and so you know it could toast our whole ozone, but that's not happened in history. It's more likely. Have you ever heard of the Carrington event when? We got a really big coronal mass ejection and it shut down like all the telegraphs. And that didn't just shut them down, it exploded them.

Speaker 1 40:50

When was that?

Speaker 2 40:52

That was in the 1800s. It was called the Carrington event. So if that same type of thing it was like an X100. If that same type of thing happened to us right now and it just instantly hit and all of our electronics exploded, well, all of the transformers are made in China. There's just no way they could get us back on within six months, six months without power. You're looking at like probably 80% of the population's not here anymore. So it's, it's the thing.

Speaker 2 41:23

It's very real right, we'd be back to like steam engines. And if we don't?

Speaker 1 41:28

know what tomato.

Speaker 2 41:30

We have a problem.

Speaker 1 41:32

All right, I agree.

Speaker 3 41:34

And I love it as your rev litambling off, you're like mad max and this, and that's the thing. Like we have so many, you know, true stories, fictional stories that I think bring awareness, which goes back to what you're saying, sir. You know, yeah, being globally connected is important, but if we, if we focus at the higher level and forget about the lower levels of systems, you know, like the local level of support and that support system there, then it basically becomes kind of like a tumbling block because we have to work within our communities first, I think, and then we branch out and I think we forget that it's always bottoms up, not top down.

Speaker 1 42:17

Yeah, grassroots is where we can make a difference right. Right we tend to go for policy on the macro, but sometimes grassroots is enough and then right, the movement has a ripple effect. I would hope.

Speaker 2 42:29

Yeah.

Speaker 1 42:29

But it's so fringy. I mean, have I sorry to take over Virginia, but um, and hopefully this is not a tangent have you ever, either of you, read educated by Tara Weston? Just as a shout out? My sister, renee, turned me onto it and she was raised by survivalists. And what is it called when you're completely off grid? There's a word for it. I mean, bunker is was a key word for me no, like a prepper yeah, yeah, doomsday prepper.

Speaker 1 42:59

There's a word I mean it was. It might have been related to lds or something creepy like that, but it was very it's. It's her story of. You know. It's almost like the cave allegory. Was that aristotle? Or just she called it education for a reason, because some pretty dark stuff happened when you know being raised and even river Phoenix has stories about that. Right, when you're kind of raised off grid, it has its own.

Speaker 2 43:26

Yes, yeah, I have a friend outcome.

Speaker 2 43:28

You know I have a friend who was raised by like, hardcore prepper parents and like, instead of you know, investing in his you know music skills or whatever, they were busy putting food back. Okay, so you have right, you have two extremes and in life it's all about moderation and it's all about balance. So, uh, for example, in California, you put all that food back and then you have a wildfire come through and now it's all gone. Like what, what good did it? Do you Right? So for me, if I was going to preach, like on a soapbox, if I'm going to preach any one thing, I would say skills, skills over stuff every time, because with skills and with knowledge you can create stuff. So but if you don't, if you have the stuff and not the skills to be able to use any of the stuff, you have a bunch of useless garbage.

Speaker 1 44:25

Right, yeah, right what do I gotta?

Speaker 2 44:29

what I gotta buy. Well you, have to buy anything, get outside well.

Speaker 1 44:34

Well, I'm the guy who's going to say whether you become a survivalist or not, or a prepper, whatever extreme you want to go to. I agree with you that it's about skills, because if I was to diagnose and say what are the major threats to our survival as a race right now and it's not just the United States, it's all of Judeo-Christian Western culture we're too consumerist for our own good right. Nothing is sustainable. We don't have the resources to sustain greedy capitalism. So patriarchy, greedy capitalism, consumerism isn't that enough to tackle? Like if we could just strike a balance on some of those fronts? Isn't that enough to tackle? Like if we could just strike a?

Speaker 2 45:16

balance on some of those fronts. Maybe I don't know. And I would add that it's consumerism and capitalism without virtue.

Speaker 1 45:22

Well, yeah, there's responsible capitalism. I've been hearing that one, Not greedy but responsible.

Speaker 2 45:29

Take, for example, hershey right. Hershey right, when Hershey started producing chocolate and really making money off of it, he made his own town with an orphanage, with the church, with a hospital for all of his workers, because he felt responsible to those people who were helping him make that money and make that chocolate.

Speaker 1 45:52

They were part of the process.

Speaker 2 45:53

When was that he did his in 1900. Wow, and that's what Hershey Pennsylvania, hershey Pennsylvania, it's Hershey Pennsylvania because he created the town around his factory. And so, if, yeah, so if we had the values and the virtue and the care for one another in that community, we could really do great things with our business and be able to lift everybody up together, instead of it being like this I'm going to step on your head, and now people are like, well, I'm just going to job hop, because that's best, there's no company loyalty anymore, and things like that. Because, well, why should you be? Why should you?

Speaker 3 46:32

be Honestly, you picked up up on and nick said it a few times too, don't watch it as well um, you know, it's that creating and that's where we bring in that inspiration, that intuitiveness. We just talked about this recently, you know, dominic, in our, in our last podcast that we just, you know, recorded about how technology and more of society, as we get to where we become consumers, we're losing that fundamental part of who we are, of our soul, of our deep empathy, because we're not creating, we're not using our skills, we're not listening to the universe on what we could be contributing toward for everything to help human to me it's, it's the same conversation.

Speaker 1 47:19

It's called interconnectivity. When we can embrace our interconnectivity right, not just with one another but with all of life right and with the earth, that'll be our salvation. But we're, we are isolated. I mean it does. It comes up every episode virginia. We think the internet has has made us the world a smaller place, but actually it's forced us ironically into isolation. So anyway, it's all interconnectivity in my world it has.

Speaker 2 47:47

You're not lying, that's true.

Speaker 1 47:50

Well, we do. There's a lot of. Anyway, I am in the, the city and you're my idol. Lately it's just like, oh my God, the helicopter's alone. I would kill or die to get away from the noise pollution. But I do find LA every now and then. But I just feel like we lose sight of our interconnectivity and privilege and entitlement doesn't help. Right when you have your needs met and you don't need to be dependent on your neighbor, it's really easy to fall into this sort of.

Speaker 2 48:19

And then, if we're not careful, it's like well, this company now owns this neighborhood. Here's the food on your list. They'll just deliver it to your door.

Speaker 1 48:28

You don't have to worry about it.

Speaker 2 48:30

Just stay in your domicile, keep working.

Speaker 1 48:34

Right.

Speaker 2 48:35

I mean our taxation levels are reaching worse than the Israelites were taxed in Egypt. So I mean it's just something to think about.

Skills Over Stuff: Practical Preparation

Speaker 1 48:47

Well, and it's, it's. I don't think there's anyone with one twisty mustache. I think there is a deep state. Now I'm saying too much, I didn't think there. You know, politicians come and go, but there's an agenda beyond any one administration and it does seem like a great way to control the populace is to not just divide and conquer but to isolate. I'm convinced my algorithm is intent on keeping me behind closed doors. Do you know what I mean? Just looking at tits and ass all day? I'm not kidding. I think it's that specific.

Speaker 2 49:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1 49:16

Anyway, now I've said it all.

Speaker 2 49:18

Isolation with the illusion of freedom. Yeah, wow so you don't even know you're in your own prison.

Speaker 1 49:24

Wow.

Speaker 3 49:25

And I don't think people realize that this is, like you know, just to tie it back to our podcasts and you know, story and what I mentioned before about the stories we tell ourselves. The stories are born into industries that other people are telling us. I mean, that's literally what's happening, like we buy into this because there has to be buy-in from us. You know, to think, oh, this is just how it is. I, I can't change this, I can't change the way things are really, but that kind of futility.

Speaker 1 49:55

The remedy to that kind of futility is exactly, sarah, right? Sorry, yep, it's exactly what, sarah, you were saying. The example. And it's back to the puppy, right? Without the example, you can stand on your own two feet. I'm being really corny now, but you are absolutely. You must believe we're redeemable because you're giving us an example of what's possible.

Speaker 2 50:17

Yes, yeah, I don't think it's too late. I think people are waking up from the dream from the cloud and kind of going. And the more that the earth pushes on us, the more we're going to understand that we're not here without the planet. The planet is not a rock like, it's not just a stable thing. We've been so blessed with the most stable time period of any species on this planet. We have just been it's been so stable for us.

Speaker 1 50:49

that's what I mean by entitlement. When I hear about beachfront property, that you know, and I do think there's climate change, I believe in it and it's like well, whoever said the coastline wasn't going to reshape itself? Like it's complete it's complete hubris to think we can have any security at all.

Speaker 2 51:06

It's a gift. Hurricanes blow right across Florida every year. You think that land's going to be there forever. I mean, it's only a matter of time. You can't just dig up more sand and keep putting it back forever.

Speaker 1 51:17

That's what they do. That's literally no. But god love humans for right.

Speaker 2 51:20

Yeah yeah, we're resilient and it's like nobody's business. We're like oh yeah, we can, definitely we're, we're good, we're sell that piece of land.

Speaker 3 51:27

It's good sometimes I wonder if it's a little bit of disillusionment because, like so, where I'm at in saint george have what's called it's they literally call it the 100 year flood, like it is literally nicknamed the 100 year flood. So you know, about every 100 years there's going to be a flood. In a very specific location of where I live out here in Washington County and there are houses right along the Virgin river and when we first moved here 20 years ago it was about that timeframe and I feel bad for all the people who lost their houses into the Virgin River but they were shocked that their house fell.

Speaker 2 52:02

Whoa, how'd that happen? In Sacramento, the floodplain, you know? Oh, we just got done rebuilding from last year. Well, here's your sign. I mean hello In.

Speaker 1 52:14

LA it's, it's the cycle of you know wildfires, then the floods and the landslides and the mudslides, and it's like, well, hmm, how about just don't buy in Runyon Canyon, don't buy a house on stilts in Runyon Canyon? If you can afford the insurance, awesome, go for it. Every year they do it. But that's what I mean by God. Love humans for their hubris year.

Speaker 2 52:37

They do it. But that's what I mean by god love humans for their hubris, yeah, yeah, well, bringing it back. You know, erica is really, um, a spartacus figure in the long run of the series, right, so she finds her family uh, spoiler on book one, but it's still very much worth the read. But then we go into what did society do? Because there was was this great earthquake and a lot of our infrastructure was lost. Not a lot of people were killed, so we have all these people that don't have land, don't have houses anymore, and we have these people that do so in order to control the chaos. They round up all the climate refugees in the FEMA camps so that they can control the chaos, basically into FEMA camps so that they can control the chaos, basically. And then, with the oil supply being down, they decide, okay, well, we can basically adopt these families out to people who need them to grow food, and so it really becomes this two-tiered structure of landowners and climate refugees and they lose a lot of rights. The climate refugees eventually become just slaves.

Speaker 2 53:36

I really got into the horrors of human trafficking and I was completely appalled that people are still living in slavery today, like I was told in school like that doesn't exist anymore. And then come to find out there's over 300 million people on our planet still living in slavery, in a world where this is not supposed to be legal anymore. So that, to me, really rocked me. And that was about book five, when I really started discovering the horrors of human trafficking and trying to teach people how not to become victims, and so I started writing that into my book.

The Changing Earth Series Evolution

Speaker 2 54:15

I created my sinister, sinister bounty hunter, tj Swenson. He was actually human trafficked as a kid as well and he becomes this, you know, bounty hunter that can go after anybody. So of course he's after Erica and it really she's leading the freedom march, basically back to like. We need to all be one people, not be this two-tiered system anymore of these landowners versus the climate refugees, because the earth just keeps pressing, things get worse and worse, but they're still holding on to like the system that they created after the great quake.

Speaker 2 54:50

And so she really becomes, uh, the sp Spartacus figure of like, leading the refugees back. But you know, tj captures her, she goes through this whole experience with him. And so my book Hope on the Horizon it's book number seven that's her like how to overcome that PTSD. As a survivor of this experience, they're still expecting her to like be this leader that they all look up to you, and she's just broken inside, and so that was a really challenging book for me. But that's where the whole story, you know, and then at the end it's just the dual down. You know.

Speaker 3 55:29

Good times, I love action and I love that you're digging into. All of you know the stories that we literally have seen in our own history. That reminds me of um. Well, there's a show called homestead, a movie yeah, I haven't seen it yet, yeah yeah, so very, very, you know different but has some similar key themes in there.

Speaker 3 55:53

But but, um, there's a psychiatrist, his name is Victor Frankel and he's the existentialism and mental health also known as logotherapy. But there's a quote. I actually shared this out on Facebook this past week. Um, you know, what he said was is when we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. And that totally made me think of that the whole time, because obviously you can't change that situation, so she's gonna have to change right, adapt and shit like that's the earth causes that to happen over and over and over again to everybody who's occupying the planet right yeah, wow, um, but we are toward the end of our show, which is why we also had to share with our listeners, um, part of your books.

Speaker 3 56:45

So is there anything else you'd like to impart to them before we?

Speaker 2 56:50

wrap up. You can find me at changing earth seriescom. Changing earth seriescom. I have everything you know. My audio drama is a really cool show. We take all the stories and do them like a fifties radio show and yeah, yeah, it's a ton of fun Cause I have this huge podcast podcasting network great people that just volunteer their voices and whatnot, so changing our series. All the books both of my podcasts are there and just everything you'd want to know about Sarah and the Change the Nurse series. You can find it there.

Speaker 3 57:23

All right, and we'll make sure we have those links at the bottom of our description for all of our listeners. But thank you so much for coming on, sarah. It's been great, just kind of talking and just sharing what you've been doing and how all of this ties into that interconnectedness, like Nick said.

Speaker 2 57:42

And.

Speaker 3 57:42

Yeah Well, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2 57:44

It's been a really, really fun conversation. It's always fun to get your brain picked on different avenues and you grow yourself in the same at the same time. Like I say, I love to learn, so it was very rewarding experience.

Speaker 1 57:56

Well, thank you thank you, sarah and uh to our listeners remember life is story and we can get our hands in the clay individually and collectively. We can write a new story. See you next time.