The Medicine Walk with Alexandra Bourne

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What if the most honest art you’ll ever make begins where control ends? We sit down with medicine woman, artist, and storyteller Alexandra Bourne to trace a decade-long pilgrimage that turned paintings into prayer and travel into ceremony. From a close call in Croatia to kickboxing in Thailand, from the stillness of the Yukon to the stars over Taranaki, Alexandra shows how creativity, intuition, and nature weave a single thread: art as medicine, story as remembrance, and surrender as strength.

Alexandra Bourne In her own words:

“Between story, artwork and music, or any form of creative work, we are able to generate emotion and resonance that sits behind the mask of ego and conditioning. I truly believe having healthy and expansive dialogue can create the best waves of change in a world that surely needs to be uplifted in truth."

Learn more at the links below

https://www.lupavelacollective.com/

www.linkedin.com/in/alexandra-bourne-73546a340

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Chapters

• 0:00 Opening And Guest Welcome
• 4:07 Creativity And Spirituality Intertwined
• 7:15 The Pilgrimage And Breaking Chains
• 12:25 Paintings First, Words After
• 19:05 Early Travels And Identity Shifts
• 23:30 Solo Female Travel And Safety
• 32:15 Off-Grid Isolation And Inner Dialogue
• 41:40 Nature’s Lessons On Surrender
• 48:45 The Lupa Vella Collective
• 55:05 Interconnectivity Across Cultures And Land
• 1:05:55 Meaning Making And The Kaleidoscope
• 1:14:05 New Zealand, Horses, And Hard Lessons
• 1:21:55 Maori Teachings, Body Wisdom, And Stars

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:45

Alexandra Bourne is a medicine woman, artist, and storyteller, whose work bridges the ancient and contemporary through soul, story, and ceremony. Her creative journey, The Pilgrimage to the Cradle of Mankind, traces not only a path across sacred landscapes, but a deep exploration of what it means to be human. For ten years, she has traveled solo in remote places, completing a pilgrimage where the first heartbeats of humanity once echoed in the lands of Africa. On this journey, Alexandra experienced art as both language and medicine. An invocation of color, form, and movement, became tools for remembrance and healing. Guided by music, writing, and the teachings of elders and medicine people, she has cultivated a practice that honors rhythm, ritual, and intention as vehicles for transformation. Through her art and storytelling, Alexandria invites others into a shared ceremony of awakening, one that celebrates connection, humility, and the living pulse of spirit that unites us all. In her own words, between story, artwork, and music, or any form of creative work, we are able to generate emotion and resonance that sits behind the mask of ego and conditioning. I truly believe having healthy and expansive dialogue can create the best waves of change in a world that surely needs to be uplifted in truth. Amen. Welcome, Alexandra Bourne.

SPEAKER_01: 2:14

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00: 2:17

Thank you so much. Is there anything in the bio that I should correct?

SPEAKER_01: 2:21

Uh no, that was pretty spot on.

SPEAKER_00: 2:23

Sounded sounded like you.

SPEAKER_01: 2:24

I liked it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:26

Right on. Well, again, thanks so much for being here. Virginia, by the way, is our lovely co-host and producer. Welcome.

SPEAKER_03: 2:32

Thank you. I am here and getting my brain in tune.

SPEAKER_00: 2:38

Yeah, we've we've had quite the week. So um yeah, I think all of us are kind of decompressing. Is Mercury in retrograde? Anyone know?

SPEAKER_01: 2:46

Oh, it's always in retrograde.

SPEAKER_00: 2:49

Well, it feels like it in my life. They say communication and technology suffers. Oh, you had a little technical glitch this morning, Virginia.

SPEAKER_04: 2:57

I did, yeah. Uh actually trying to get everything up so we could do today was I was just watching the the circle just spin. And it was trying to put me into a trance, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 3:07

Oh, yeah, exactly. It's a meditative trance. It's exactly what you need. See, the universe provides when you're receptive. Synchronicity. Okay, well, the way we'd like to start, I think, as you know, Alexandra, is um just with a general road question. And we have been asking a certain question throughout this season, but I wanted to tweak it a little bit just after learning about you and being inspired by you. And uh may use this one uh moving forward because I think it's pretty universal and it's not earth-shattering or anything, but I just feel like you might have something to say about it. What, in your opinion, is the relationship between creativity or creative expression and spirituality?

SPEAKER_01: 3:53

It's a beautiful question. Um yeah, I I I had a dabble with this one a little bit along my journey, uh, particularly when I was living off grid, um, when I was trying to understand the spirituality behind, you know, no external voices, just kind of my my voice and creator's voice. And I think creativity is the expression of spirituality. You know, when I was when I was off grid and my food was covered and my, you know, all my bare minimum, you know, bases of survival were covered. At the end of the day, I asked myself what I would want to be doing with my time and my energy, and it was to create, whether it was going out and playing my guitar or whittling some wood or you know, just doing something with my hands and my imagination. Um and I think that that comes in the form of you know different different forms of expression. Um, and I and that includes storytelling, you know, and and the same with like the ancient tribes and how they use storytelling as a form of creativity to inspire their spiritual uh practices. So I think it just embodies it uh in an entirety, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 4:59

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah, it's there's so much to say about it. I'm kind of looking forward to hearing how people express it. And that's beautifully put because yeah, and one could say creativity is the expression of uh spirit, you know? I they're almost inseparable, in my opinion. So, anyway, that was beautifully put. Thank you so much. Uh, for listeners, I want to back up a little bit, and maybe in your own words, you could tell us, you know, uh how you got to this point. And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this um pilgrimage, how it came about, and then your current endeavors, your current pursuits. So the best way, again, I did a lot of reading, um, and uh, but I'd love to hear it from you. It seems like, and sorry, I'm looking at my notes here. Um you're starting to publish, and I did want some clarity on this. Uh, are you publishing it in installments, the initial essay, The Art of Breaking Chains? Is that something that's going to you know, we're that we're gonna get more of in the future, or was that a one-time post?

SPEAKER_01: 6:04

Yeah, so the the Art of Breaking Chains was something that I wrote uh along my journey of the pilgrimage. And um, what I had done is I had I'd actually published that book um a few years ago uh when it was written. And then I kind of took it uh off of the publishing websites um because I wanted to revisit it. I think I gained a little bit more uh wisdom along the way and I wanted to kind of you know fine-tune it a little bit more. And then when I went to go and publish it again, there was just something that said inside of me, you know, put it out there, just put it out there for people to read, put it out there for, you know, uh educational purposes. And um, so I I put the first uh section up on my website because we're just kind of coming out of the cave. Like I feel like I was in a bear's cave for a while, you know, just you know, brewing and and birthing this, this uh this final piece of of the pilgrimage. And because that was kind of like a taster on the pilgrimage, I thought, okay, well, this will be a nice way to start gain momentum on um some of the concepts that I've learned along the way. So the first part that's on the website is available to the public. And then I think every week I'm gonna post uh another section because it's quite a collection, a series, and allow it to kind of evolve itself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:21

And do they all include uh paintings? That series of paintings is, you know, obviously speaks for itself. It um tells a story completely independent of the prose. Will each installment have artwork with it as well? I mean, no pressure. I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_01: 7:36

Yes, yes, it absolutely will. Um, yeah. So when I when I wrote that initially, that was it actually was all the paintings were done first. And then I got to look at the paintings because that was the you know invocation of feeling. That was where I could put it, and I didn't know what words I really wanted to capture yet. And then when I put it onto the paintings, you know, as an artist, sometimes you you know intend for a painting to go a certain way and it has its own course. Yeah, and that's where where spirit comes in and holds the paintbrush for you, and you're like, okay, here we here we go, man. So yeah, so it was um it was the paintings were done, and then the the wording came afterwards, and then the wording has like evolved over time as well, just based on uh the evolution of my of the wisdom and and and the um the deeper, the deeper dives into the psyche and into the spiritual practice.

SPEAKER_00: 8:20

Yeah, well, they perfectly complement one another, even in retrospect. I think sometimes we do express viscerally and then slowly. I mean, I read things I've written years before. I mean, The Seeker, I have a novel out right now, and I I've reread it and thought, well, God, I didn't see that level, but I do now, because life experience catches up, you know. And uh that's the beauty of storytelling is that um, yeah, I would say the universe works through you, not to be too lofty about it, but you know, there are, you know, if you're human, there's going to be many levels on which to relate to something. And I often read my own work later and realize, oh, okay, that's what I was working through, or that's what's universal, that's of benefit to humanity. So I do get that. When I read the I I keep saying prose, the essay that accompanied the paintings. I thought, well, that is exactly what is being conveyed viscerally through the imagery, right? And I it makes sense that you had some perspective over time and were able to articulate it better. Uh so I love, I think they complement one another beautifully. And yeah, I was just hoping there would be more. So thanks for confirming that. Yeah, but maybe for again for listeners, uh I initially didn't catch that that was midway through your journey in New Zealand, I think, right? Near Taraniki. Um, that you were inspired to do that series of paintings. But maybe back up even more and tell us, because you did say in the uh the Art of Breaking Chains that you I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you had a little bit of an identity crisis that inspired you to first go on. I'm gonna call it a walkabout. First go on your uh what is the best word, journey?

SPEAKER_01: 10:00

Your um walkabout, pilgrimage, odyssey. I think it's just uh I call it a medicine walk. Uh yes initially. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:11

Yeah, what inspired you to first skip town and go on this amazing walk?

SPEAKER_01: 10:17

Um well initially I think I was just born rebellious. I think I just walked into this world with a bit of bit of fire in me. And I, you know, no one could ever tell me what to do, no one could ever kind of put me in a in a box and and say this is this is you know XYZ. So I think I I had this sense that there was something more to the constructs, to the societal conditioning, to the you know, the the lifestyle that that we're kind of exposed to in Western culture. And uh and unfortunately, my mother came from Poland, so I was exposed to a bit of contrast of a younger age with going back and forth between Canada to Poland, kind of seeing a different way of of living. So I was like, oh, there is something more out there. And then when I, you know, went through you know the schooling and everything, and I was like, okay, here's my here's my freedom, you know, I grabbed my backpack and I just jumped on a plane with my sister and we backpacked Europe for a couple months. And I was like, okay, this is great. But it was actually a lot of you know tourist uh attraction kind of traveling and you know, sightseeing and that kind of stuff. And I was like, oh, I'm just getting like the tip of the iceberg to what culture and contrast is here.

SPEAKER_00: 11:22

Um I'm sorry, how old were you at that point, the backpacking trip?

SPEAKER_01: 11:25

I think I was around 19 or 20 years old at that point. So that's like the initial the initial thing that started the the pilgrimage was just scratching the surface of of of the world. Right. Um and then you know, going uh afterwards to to do some more deeper dives. I I started uh traveling after that and uh you know, mostly on a whim, actually. It was just kind of like sporadic, okay, let's choose this country and go and do a deep dive. You know, let's go to Spain and live off grid for three months with a 75-year lady, why not? You know, and and do all these kinds, let's go to Thailand and go do some kickboxing, why not? You know, and just starting to like really go into these places with the you know, without without the language barrier, or with the language barrier rather, and with all these um, you know, contrast and opposition is is our greatest teacher for the for us and on the journey. So, and then you know, as we unraveled that, it was at the beginning, it was just kind of a curiosity, and then it was like, oh, I'm on a mission, you know. Oh, this is this is more than just curiosity. This is you know, the deep dive of understanding why I'm existing, why I'm a human, why I'm here. Um, so it became to get a little bit deeper as I went.

SPEAKER_00: 12:37

And was there an aha where's there an aha moment where you realized it was bigger than just you know that itch to travel, or did it kind of happen over time?

SPEAKER_01: 12:48

Yeah, I think I think the aha moment, uh yeah, I had many aha moments. And it's actually it was actually like uh you know, that there was there was times where I wanted to settle down and it was almost like I was being urged back onto the road. It's like the alchemist. It's like, you know, you're you you think that you know that where you want to be is exactly there, and then all of a sudden all these signs and symbols and these polls start to come and you're like no no no and the ego wants to say no no no I'm happy this is familiar, I'm good here. But the heart is like, we've got we've got things to do. And and so all and then if you don't listen, you know, which is me, I'm quite stubborn. So if I don't listen to the calls, usually they come with a little bit of a a backhand from spirit from spirit, you know, a spiritual timeout, kick, kick to the road, out you go.

SPEAKER_00: 13:34

Yeah, I the way I put it is the universe speaks louder and louder to get your attention. Yeah, the stakes get higher. If you repeat a cycle, the stakes get higher and higher. That's it. That's it. Well, I love that you obeyed it, you know what I mean, instead of a lot of people would just fall back on ego and what's comfortable. So I love that you once you identified the mission, you know, that you um stuck to the red road. Because I think you have a lot of wisdom to share now. Um, do you mind share sharing just some of the geographic regions you visited or some of the cultures with whom you spent time?

SPEAKER_01: 14:11

Yeah, yeah. So I so the original first solo trip that I did was uh to Spain with this 75-year-old woman, um, where I was isolated in the mountains for a few months. Um, and that was you know really early in my 20s. So it was a it was quite a shock. And then after that, I went to Croatia and I had a bit of a scare, a bit of a dance with uh with uh sex trafficking or or something like it was more of a traumatic, it was a close call, I say. So it wasn't nothing happened, but it was a rescue mission, something you'd probably see in a movie scene. And you know, all of a sudden I'm coming back to Canada and I was like, okay, cool. There's this obstacle in the way, you know, there's a an innocence, there's a naivety to traveling as a solo female uh in the world. So then I went into kickboxing and I was like, okay, let's let's protect ourselves.

SPEAKER_00: 14:57

Oh, in Canada, in Canada, you learned kickboxing?

SPEAKER_01: 15:00

That's where I started, and then the next trip took me to Thailand to uh live and and kickbox at a gym for a while. And so I lived on side of the gym, you know, four hours a day, six days a week training. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:12

Sorry, uh, I do want to hear, trust me, every country you visited and every culture. But just because you brought that up, I know one of the things you had hoped to talk about was the whole concept of traveling alone as a female. And to be honest, that's exactly where my mind went. There's a lot of sex trafficking in this world, you know, and um it's amazing that that's what you were confronted with. Uh, I have friends that have traveled alone, and you know, they got mugged, and that was their wake-up call. But that's pretty scary. So um, good for you for learning kickboxing. Do you want to talk about the challenges of traveling alone as a female a little more? Or is it kind of that we adjusted that topic? I it's got to have its own unique challenges, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_01: 15:54

Yeah, yeah. I think I think this is where the contrast of growing up in a very sheltered society, um, and then having that curiosity and that zest, you know, I walked with a lot of, it was very humbling, really. It was walking without the tools that I needed and putting myself into dangerous situations that I wasn't educated on. Um, impulsiveness, you know, I'm young and you know, I'm excited, and you know, there's there's uh an abundance of temptations in the world that we can fall into. So for me, it was um I was doing all these random extremes and and you know, going into different places. And when I finally uh finally had these little like, you know, these moments where it was close call moments. I started to see that okay, I need to, I need to be a little bit more aware. And then uh after Croatia, I was pretty shook. Um and so when I came back, I realized, you know, okay, do some things to protect yourself, you know, don't let this obstacle stop you or defeat you from from doing what you love to do, but be smarter about it. And martial arts taught me that I wouldn't win the fight. It was it was just as humbling. It was, you know, getting rid of the entitlement, the ego behind, like, well, I can punch this dude in the face if they're attacking me. And and really, it's actually about can you slow your breath down enough to think logically? Can you slow, can you rationalize the situation? Can you diffuse a situation? Can you be proactive in this situation so that way you are able to navigate the territory you're going into? And especially, you know, in in Europe, it's one thing, but when I started going into other countries like Africa and stuff like that, you know, your your heightened sense of awareness around your safety is is very prominent, right? And you need to um exercise caution and just be aware of it. Like you're gonna pick and choose your corruption anywhere you go.

SPEAKER_00: 17:38

Right, right. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 17:40

I I was kind of wondering too, with that, um, when you're talking about awareness and stuff, because I know it's really easy, especially with how connected we are with the internet that there's and now AI being involved too. Um did was there anything with that to where something was was presented one way? And then once you were in that situation, you realized it was basically, you know, like a catfishing type thing, where it it showed as a safe as like possibly a safe adventurous thing. But then when you got there, there were certain little things that started going, this isn't aligning with what I initially thought this was.

SPEAKER_01: 18:20

Actually, that's a perfect question because that's exactly what happened to me when I went to Croatia. So at the beginning of my journey, um, because I was young and just coming out of you know college and things like that, you know, financially, I was like, How am I gonna travel? So I used, you know, platforms like work exchange websites where you know you work for your food and accommodation. So you're you're minimizing your expenses along the along your way, and which was wonderful. Um, but I think we're sometimes very too trusting um as human beings. And it's not uh it's not bad to trust people, but it's just a reality check sometimes that you know, not everybody comes with pure intention. And so uh when I went to Croatia, it was on uh a platform that I used and there was an advertisement to train some horses in Croatia. I was like, cool, this is great, you know. And then when I got there, you know, the ad was taking down, nothing was lining up, you know, and my only saving grace was that I bought a sim card at the airport. Um, so I was able to make a phone call and I was able to call for help when I actually got to this position because I was in the middle of nowhere, you know, on a property that was boarded with with uh you know barbed wire fences and gun signs everywhere, and I'm locked in this this place and I'm like, oh, you know, so I I was able to make a phone call and then you know get get taken out of that situation. But you know, you don't really know how fast something escalates until you're in it. And you don't really, you kind of give the the red flags the benefit of the doubt um because we're we're you know maybe a bit more naive to it at that age. So it definitely uh definitely played a big factor in in that journey.

SPEAKER_04: 19:53

Yeah, thanks for sharing because yeah, I I I I do think you know we do when we're younger, especially, we want to to trust in and especially you're saying like sites that are known trusted sites and thinking well nothing should happen here, and still there's that you know, small percentage of vulnerability that something could go totally different than what you expect. So uh thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_00: 20:19

You know, in the 90s I had uh uh you know, I'm in LA, so I'm surrounded by performers, but both my roommates had been cruise ship performers, singers and dancers, and there was a whole circuit. I mean, there were friends that were performing on cruise ships, and then they would perform for royalty in the far east and pretty much disappear. So, like, and that was in the early 90s. So I do agree. I mean, I'm gonna ask you about this. I'm gonna sound really sexist, but I live near a lake, and there's women jogging with headphones on, completely unaware of their surroundings at dusk. Do you know what I mean? And or even at nightfall. And uh, so I have 22 nieces and nephews, and a lot of them are pretty progressive. And I made some comment about those women, you know, like, oh my god, be aware of your surroundings. And I might have said the word rape. And my niece and her tender, I think she was in high school, she said, Well, men get raped too. And I said, Well, yeah, if you count prison rape, actually they get raped more than women, truly, if you include those statistics. But you know, she was virtue signaling and trying to empower women in a way by saying it's a universal, and I really respected that, but I thought, well, I don't know, she's it's we don't really have the luxury. Let's talk about you know what I mean, the physical strength factor and how people are socialized. And it just seemed a little naive to me. Do you have anything to say to that? How do you empower girls and women and at the same time say be vigilant?

SPEAKER_01: 21:47

Yeah, no, absolutely. Um actually, so I I after after I've done years of training in in martial arts and krav magah and everything like that, and you know, I was training with groups of men that were not shy to punch me in the face. I signed up for it, you know. So I realized like the physicality is like, okay, actually, like I may I can be strategic as a woman, you know, and and I may get a couple good shots in and things like that. But the reality is, is you know, you're looking actually deeper than just the safety, you're looking at um constant generational trauma that lives within our bodies. So, you know, for women who are who are, and I I use this example when I used to teach uh at a community center classes for girls for self-defense, and I would use this as an example. I was like, if you feel uncomfortable, I was like, what does it hurt to take one headphone out? What does it hurt to just step aside for a minute and let the person who's walking behind you that your that your body, your intuition, your gut is saying you're heightened for it, they could just be an everyday person. They don't have they don't have to be predatory, but your body is saying it's not feeling safe. So do something to mitigate the scenario before it escalates, right? Right. And and just step to the side or call a friend and just tell them your location all of a sudden, you know, like very small strategic moves that we can do as women that offset the physical difference, you know? And and and that that was a big thing for me because you know, I'm not here to to make a man a predator or a woman a predator, but I am here to call a spade a spade, you know, and and to acknowledge that again, pure intentions don't always exist. And as women, especially with our generational trauma and our pain points, we carry a heightened sense because our bodies don't feel safe. And so trusting your intuition is a big part of it, right?

SPEAKER_04: 23:28

Yeah. And I I was gonna say I love Dog Center that you shared that even when you're in kickboxing, you know, you signed up for it and and you know, basically punch you in the face. So my um my spouse, he uh did years of taekwondo, um, got up to a black belt, and him and I would talk about that a lot about because he would he would have to spar against the females, you know, because they didn't want to just put women, you know, the females with females and the and the males with males. And so I asked him about that. I said, because it's always when we watch action movies too, like you know, they always show like these like you know, maybe, maybe 120 pounds white women like kicking the butts of men that you know are like easily like you know, 150 to 200 pounds, right, in the movies. And I'm like, that's so not real, right? I'm like, there was nobody in martial arts when you were do when you would go to competitions as far as that. And he's like, no, he's like, I actually used to hold back slightly as a man because I knew that when there was somebody who was 90 pounds sitting across from me, male or female, I was gonna clobber the heck out of them. And I wanted them to at least not, you know, one round be down, you know, to like make make make it, you know, where we could at least have some spar and learn from each other. Well, he's like, Yeah, he's like, but in a row fight, he's like, nope, he's like, chances, probably not. So I love I love that you shared that because I think sometimes as well when we do go and take those type of classes and forget maybe the guys are holding back.

SPEAKER_00: 25:00

Yeah, that's why I thought with my niece, she was so she was in high school, I should let her off the hook. But I thought, well, that's aspirational, but a little dangerous, you know. And so uh like you're saying, there's maybe almost a romanticized version of it that we're seeing when we see women kicking ass in this in cinema, it's aspirational. But like let's acknowledge that we're like you said, um, what was your way of putting it? You want to call a spade a spade? There's got to be a balance there, you know. Anyway, I didn't mean to spend so much time on that, but thank you for that. Uh, where did you go next? How about that?

SPEAKER_01: 25:35

Um, yeah, so after Thailand, I took a trip to Bali. Like I was away for a few months. Um, and I just did some solo traveling through through Southeast Asia and then uh and then headed over into Europe to see some friends. And then that's kind of when COVID broke out and I had to go back to Canada. And then I was like, okay, cool. Now I can't travel, you know, now I'm I'm isolated here. So I kind of came up with some, I just thought to myself, you know, if I'm gonna be, you know, forced to stay inside, forced to be isolated, you know, I'm gonna do this somewhere really creative. I got a big country that I'm living in. So I took off, I took off to the Yukon and I lived off grid in a small, tiny home by myself. I just brought a guitar with me and I took off for a few months and and decided that I was really gonna just see what isolation feels like if this is the world we're we're living in. And and it was interesting because up there, COVID wasn't quite a big deal, right? They they had one COVID case the entire time I was up there. So it was kind of the and it was interesting to be able to take you know all the spiritual practice, all the different opinions and external voices, and then just have my voice, you know, just have my my voice with creator, my voice with nature, um, to really understand it. And I bought my I brought books with me and all the things, but I I really just wanted to know what it meant to live from a place that was if I walked, if I was here first, you know what I mean? If there was no other external influence and I just got plucked on this earth by myself, what would I do with my time?

SPEAKER_00: 27:03

You know, you know that that goes back to the topic of um creativity and spirituality, because there's some maybe over-romanticized notions that all true inspiration comes from solitude. That's letters to a young poet, right? Rilke. And yet it's the same meditation, right? Stilling the mind, finding that stillness within the well-being, and you know, quieting the mental chatter is kind of the goal of a lot of spiritual practices, but it's also, if you believe Rilky, right, where all true inspiration comes from creatively. So, what was the biggest thing you learned in that isolation?

SPEAKER_01: 27:40

That it's messy. That it's messy work to go inside and and and quiet your mind. You know, it in my early 20s, I had done the off-grid thing and I had a taste of it. But when I really went in there, I was I was unwinding, you know, all this trauma and all this this overlap. And I was going into the generational trauma as well. It wasn't just mine. Like I was, you know, okay, I've got my childhood, but I also have all the memory and the DNA of my ancestors that I'm carrying with me. So how do I unpack this? And to get from the head, which, you know, for me, I'm I'm very stubborn and my ego was quite strong. And so it was really just to get in behind it and be like, okay, I see that you're strong. I see that you're strong because you, you know, you protected me and all these things. Let's let's let's have a let's have a dialogue, let's have a conversation about why we're doing this. So it was actually about wasn't about trying to quiet the mind. It was actually an invitation to have dialogue with it to unravel it better. Um, so I could get to the heart space again. And it was this conversation between the mind and the heart that were that we're going back and forth. And then knowing when, you know, if it gets too messy, go for a walk in the woods, go and go and ground yourself, go and have a reset. Um, because it's a deep dive, it's a lot of work, and it's it's not for the faint of hard, and it's not not easy, it's not easy to do on your own.

SPEAKER_00: 28:56

Well, but that I mean, I like how you put it that it's not about quieting the mind, it's about opening up a conversation, right? Because I think it's normal. I'll just give one example. I had a friend, I keep going back to the 90s, I don't know why, but we went hiking in Yosemite, you know, and it's definitely not the Serengeti, it's just Yosemite. But literally just the elevation and the fresh air. She had been through a divorce recently, and just being in nature, stripped of you know, all the stimuli, she broke down and all the toxins came up, if that makes sense. And um, I think it's normal, right, when you isolate or when you get back to nature for all the things you've kind of become habituated to to be suddenly, you know, I don't know, come out because uh because of the minimalism. I don't know if that makes sense, but I I like the idea that you started a conversation instead of um just trying to uh shove those thoughts down. I'm guessing, you know, the intergenerational trauma or even you know your personal demons, call them what you want, that you were tempted to just uh silence them, you know, but then you understood, no, no, no, this is a dialogue here.

SPEAKER_01: 30:11

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, at first I always explain this as like, you know, at first it might be a part of yourself that's like your heart is maybe knocking on the door to the mind, being like, Can we talk? You know, at the beginning, and then eventually it becomes this like little you call it your inner child, your wounded child, whatever it is, the part of you that is now holding a box of matches and it's like your little arsonist ready to burn the building down. It's like, no, you're not hearing my knock. So now I'm gonna light this thing on fire. You know, now you are gonna listen to me because your intention was to understand it, so you're gonna get what you've asked for, you know, and now you have to level up, be strong enough. Enough to receive what you're about to ask for because the only way through, like the only way to get through the fire is to go into it.

SPEAKER_00: 30:51

Oh, I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 30:52

Alchemize it, right?

SPEAKER_00: 30:53

That's yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:55

Yeah, that was in the essay that I read on your website.

SPEAKER_02: 30:59

Um Vella.

SPEAKER_00: 31:00

Hey, that leads to another question I had. What is the name of the website? Um Lupa Vella. Yeah, lupa vella. And I, of course, Googled that. And depending on which Latin-based language you go with, it's got several potential meanings. Do you want to let the cat out of the bag and reveal the intention? Because they all made sense. Every interpretation I found of those two words in different languages, it kind of all worked.

SPEAKER_02: 31:27

Very cool.

SPEAKER_00: 31:28

What does it mean to you? Well, just um, I think the idea of she wolf, but also veil veil and magnifier. Those words came up a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:38

Oh, I like that. Yeah. So when I originally was trying to figure out a name for because I thought, you know, the pilgrimage is one thing, but the the collective that I'm I'm actually working on is bigger than the pilgrimage and it has to, it's going to evolve itself. So I thought of something that was going to be um that was going to resonate with kind of the energy that I've been um trying to captivate over the years. And a lot of it has to do with, you know, being the wild woman, being the wild wolf woman and going on this voyage, going on this, this, this odyssey of understanding. And so um I chose Lupa Vella uh because it's the she-wolf who sails the seas. It's the one that goes out, the wild woman that goes out and just finds, you know, parts of her psyche like collecting pieces of my soul to try and embody what you know what it means to actually be a woman, what it means to to exist, what it means to cohabitate in humanity. And uh yeah, and I'm just a wild card at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00: 32:34

Well, speaking of the bigger picture, and I believe there's a book um about your travels on the horizon. Um, I want to understand the collective a little more because I believe, isn't that how you met our mutual friend Angela? Uh doing a mural for Procyon Wildlife. Is that how you met?

SPEAKER_01: 32:52

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 32:53

Yeah. So the collective, uh explain what what the mission is of the collective a little bit.

SPEAKER_01: 33:00

Yeah, so the the collective is about merging um creativity and expression with the spiritual practice and really finding the the the way that it can uh alter changes in humanity or inspire humanity to to come back to truth, right? I feel like it's it's actually a returning uh and a remembrance and a and you know, and and coming home to ourselves and uh creative expression, you know, words or paintings or music invokes the feelings of something that we all I think inherently know. Um it speaks to the moral compass, but we have so much um baggage or so many walls that have been built around it, or so much conditioning and construct that we're having a hard time navigating it. And so, and I did the same thing, you know, when I first started my artwork, I was going around Europe and I was painting and I was doing these things, but I was so unfulfilled because I was only meeting the physical materialistic need of doing this work. And I was like, no, my artwork's more than that. And so when I came back to Canada, that's when I was like, okay, what are you passionate about? You know, and wildlife was a huge part of my my journey. And so I was like, okay, let's let's let's approach Proceon and let's see if we can collaborate. And so we did this this wildlife mural for them for like an educational uh trailer for when kids and people come out and they can kind of walk through it. And we had all the volunteers put their handprints on the pathway of this mural, and it was so wholesome and so beautiful. And that's where I met Angela, and uh, and we were like kindred souls. She's she she became we hugged immediately, she became an instant friend. Yeah, she's lovely. And then her and I are doing some collaborations as well. So it's it's evolving itself. It's not just it's recognizing that it's not just me, even though maybe I'm the one who started it and planted the seed on my journey. It's a collective of experiences with different souls, it's a collective of collaborations and it's a collective of artists. And and yeah, see how it unfolds itself.

SPEAKER_00: 34:51

Cool. Yeah, there's perfect transition because I want to ask about interconnectivity, and I'll be more specific in a second. But of course he fell in love with Angela. I'm just gonna give her a shout shout out.

SPEAKER_01: 35:01

Uh yes, please do.

SPEAKER_00: 35:02

Yeah, she's just my favorite human being at this point. Um, yeah, and I see how you would click with her a hundred percent. She's been so supportive of our podcast, she's been on twice, by the way, and just as good as it gets in terms of being a fellow artist and a fellow storyteller, but more importantly, a fellow human, you know. And um, she just gets it. She does. I'm so glad that she hooked us up. Um, but I wanted to go a little further down the interconnectivity role because yes, your collective sounds like it's just all about the communal experience and uh creating art together. And so it just let leads to one of the questions I had written down, which is what did you learn about interconnectivity on your pilgrimage? A, between cultures and peoples, meaning, right? You see a lot of cultural relativity, I'm sure, but there's got to be universals as well. So, what did you learn about interconnectivity between cultures, but also between man and nature? Because your work is largely about nature.

SPEAKER_01: 36:07

Yeah, this this is uh it's it's been an interesting uh one because there's a lot of overlap in cultures and spirituality and different religious practices. And it's interesting to watch the the overlap and and the and and and a bit of the contrast too, but a lot of it actually speaks to a lot of similarities. Um and for me, you know, listening to elders and listening to ancient wisdom, you know, all they say to me is just to go and sit into nature, you know, go and sit with nature.

SPEAKER_00: 36:34

Like we love to split, we split hairs and we start wars over tenets that are actually saying the same thing.

SPEAKER_01: 36:40

Yeah, exactly. And it and you know, it's it's this it's this interesting thing that I think you you know, I actually was looking at your your book, The Seeker, and kind of getting an idea for it. And it's the same thing where you know, you go out and people thought for my pilgrimage that I was running away from all the things. And I and in truth, I was. And the thing is you can't run away from the thing from the energy you're already embodying because that's just gonna mirror back to you, doesn't matter where you go to.

SPEAKER_00: 37:03

You take the reality you take yourself with you when you get out of dog when you get out of dodge.

SPEAKER_01: 37:07

Yeah, I've heard that a few times lately. Oh my goodness. Um, but yeah, and it was actually that I was running into myself. I wasn't running away, and maybe at first I was, but I was running into something because the environment was teaching me the different landscapes, the different energies of land and nature in different areas, they were all communicating to me. And I was learning the language of it, and I was inspired by certain people, but I also, you know, had to understand through the unraveling of my ego, all the work that everybody else is also doing and how we're mirroring each other and how we're we're having this dance, you know. And sometimes the dance is not conscious, right? And so when you become more conscious of it, you're actually able to dance with it better because you're you're able to kind of move the energy with it, um, as opposed to just letting you know shadow work clash and all that kind of stuff. So it was you're learning from nature and you're learning from people. And if you can see them all as a teacher, it's your it's your greatest victory. You know, no one is out to get you. Everybody is a teacher.

SPEAKER_00: 38:07

Yeah, you sound a little bit like me. I'm more interested in the common ground or in the universals than the disparity, you know. But I think when you see a glaring, you know, cultural value that's so glaringly contrasts that of I don't know, Western European Judeo-Christian culture, you're tempted to really dig in the dirt and diagnose, but actually it's more empowering to look at um the shared humanity, I would say, and you know, the universals and the human conditions. So you sound like you're a little bit more uh you know, uh of that mindset. But I wanted to go back a little bit, you know. I have 22 nieces and nephews, and some of them are globetrotters, you know, and they've uh found a way to see the world, and um, it's really beautiful. But the reason I asked what your initial impetus was, because I think when you painted that series of paintings, you were 16. Is that true?

SPEAKER_01: 39:00

I thought I the original one. The original one that's on the the beginning was painted at 16, and then the series that came out of that was because I revisited the her her the feeling of that painting when I was in in New Zealand. Oh god. Um and then the the rest of the paintings kind of float out of that one, but that was the initial thought. That was the initial the initial energy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:20

Yeah, well, you spoke a little bit about I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you know, smelling the call of the wild and feeling feeling a little dissatisfied or disillusioned with life as it stood at 16. And so the the only reason I want to say this is it might be a value to some listeners, and you know, I think we are kindred spirits. A lot of the people that land on our podcast tend to be kindred spirits. And so what I heard you say initially was, you're just a free thinker, you know. I never bought socialization, hook, line, and sinker. I always saw, right, saw outside the box, maybe a rubble without a cause, a lot of the qualities you described in yourself. But you know, when my nephew first went to Nepal, it was around the time of the earthquake, he had just been through a breakup. And so I'm the one feeling for my sister, right? Because her child was leaving the nest, you know, and kind of be a and so I did kind of pick his brain. We had one coffee, and I I just gently, gently suggested the idea. Because you know, the alchemist they do come home in the end, right? All the hero's journeys, you realize everything I ever needed was in my own backyard after searching far and wide. That's what the seeker is, as well. By the way, it's just you know, yeah, you you learn the lessons, and then you realize now I can transform my immediate surroundings through those goggles or whatever. It's it's a similar thing, but I don't know. I just felt like he was disillusioned and his heart was broken, frankly. So I I had written at that point a lot about searching far and wide because your worldview is so um dis you're so disillusioned. And no, he wasn't having it. He was like, No, I'm just sick of suburbia because he lived in Santa Clarita. So that goes back to when you don't buy the status quo, when you know human potential is so much greater than the trappings we've fallen into, you know, that that's a wonderful thing for the rest of us. So I love that you were running towards something and not away from something. But I just gently wanted to say that in your case, it sounds like those of us that find ourselves dissatisfied, and again, don't want to put words in your mouth, but you have a maybe identity crisis or an existential crisis, and you feel like there's more, or I'm meant for more. I think those that are meant for greatness feel that fire, if that makes sense, to go out and seek. And you only came into your greatness by doing it. Is that fair to say? You have more to bring back, you have more to bring more wisdom to share with the rest of us now.

SPEAKER_01: 41:49

Yeah. Yeah. I well, I think a large part of that is that you know, first to like if you want to become great, you first have to unbecome what you think you are. Right. And that's the hardest lesson that anyone has to learn because you know, you're you're you're um born into an illusion. You're born into the illusion of this is how the world is, this is A plus B equals C. It's it's an equation, and it's not that's not an equation. The actual truth behind it is that we're limitless and that we have, you know, this level of expansive um capabilities that can actually create our own reality. But we're not taught that, right? That's that's that's we're actually trying to that's it's a threat to the system if we if we expose these kinds of truths. And that's when you're unbecoming these things, the amount of trauma or pressure or or pushback on doing this, it oftentimes is what stops you from getting there because it's heavy, right? And so it's where these kinds of conversations that we're starting to have, and this this kind of uh, you know, this level of awakening that we're starting to experience in in our culture is because you know the world has gone so far to the other side that something needs to shift, something needs to alter. Yeah, I think a lot of younger generations are feeling it now, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 42:58

Yeah, yeah. Growing pains are really uncomfortable. So, you know, it's it's a scary moment, but it does signal change. And um do you does the term dream spell illusion mean anything to you?

SPEAKER_01: 43:11

Um, not not not too much, not too much. I think dreams dream spell illusion, is that what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00: 43:16

Yeah, well, D Pak Chopra talks about it, it's a kind of Native American concept, but it's exactly what you're saying. Like you can see beyond the veil to the metaphysical truth if you choose to, but we're socialized to keep the veil intact. And there's, you know, that has so many implications. But just kind of seeing beyond the status quo at what's really going on here, you know, and I think it has been a steady arc, you know, if you go back in time and the whole new age movement, which I despise that term to begin with, but I feel like it's latching on in the mainstream a little more every day. And I think you're absolutely right that things are coming to a head because you have people resisting the march toward human potential at all costs and digging their heels in, you know, patriarchy and capitalism and imperialism and all these societal ills that are no longer working and haven't for centuries. You know, there's people staunchly trying to protect them. But I do think the general march, I don't know if I'm making any sense, but is toward what you're saying, which is seeing beyond the constructs and the conceptualizations that don't serve us anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 44:20

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think a big part of that is that sometimes, you know, when you get to that point where you're so dissatisfied with with the the mediocre, the mediocracy of life and you're searching for something more, oftentimes the anger of the victimhood of of your circumstance kind of kicks in. And that's one of the bigger, yeah, right. And that's like the bigger piece to work through because you have to realize that the anger doesn't mean, you know, complete retaliation. Like you, you're what you're doing to your embodiment of the of the truth is your retaliation. But I think what's what happens is we get so angry at the system that we have this like lash back at the system, which is actually feeding the same beast that put us in the same place that we're sitting in, right?

SPEAKER_00: 45:03

You know, so I don't know if if it's a similar conversation, but you know, the difference between Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. And uh but I do say amen to all of it. I'm not a militant activist in any way. I like to think my artwork speaks for itself and you know, my example speaks for itself, but exactly sometimes it doesn't feel like enough, trust me. And I wish I had I was a little more militant or that I had that chip, but it's not what I'm here for. So I just say amen to those militant activists. You know what I mean? We all have a gift and we're all meant to contribute it back to the collective uh in the tapestry that is humanity. So you know, I I don't have that. Yeah, it's just the way I I mean, I don't think I don't know. I don't think uh some of the things that are going on right now are okay by any means. I don't know, like political assassinations, but I do think uh amen to whatever your gifts are, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 45:58

Yeah, your your freedom to to vocalize it and to express. Yeah, that there's a there's a power in that and the gentle influence of embodying what you what you believe of yourself to be. I think that's that's a power in itself. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 46:11

I feel like this goes back to the nature question. Because you've been alone with your thoughts in isolation, you have spent time in nature. Your artwork is really beautiful, by the way. I I love thank you. Yeah, I love the depictions that almost use maybe indigenous tribal motifs and somehow the decorative quality is it's like looking at a mandala. It kind of centers you your use of decor, if that makes sense. So I like the really iconic, almost regional folk art pieces. Um, what does nature have to teach us about everything we're just talking about, like these societal ills, if you if you see it that way? What can we learn from nature about how to how to get along as humans, dear lord?

SPEAKER_01: 46:55

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, nature isn't forced, right? And that's the biggest thing. We we're we we tend to hold to a lot of control and force. Um, and that I think seems to be one of the most destructive powers uh in the world, because you know, a flower isn't told that it has to grow a certain way, a tree isn't told it has to grow a certain way. And I used to be a horticulturist and into landscaping as well. So, and I had a lot of confliction with that because eventually I'm sitting back and I'm like, what am I trying to do to manipulate nature? Well, she knows what she's doing. Wow, you know what I mean? She has the ability to create. So what I'm actually doing is thinking that because it doesn't look uh, you know, uh aesthetic or something, or it doesn't it's not appealing because it's not perfectly proportioned into a circular shrub, you know, like you know, and that's that's part of the conditioning too. So unraveling that reflection, you know, when nature when I was working with nature, being like, actually, my soul is wild and free. And when I started to embody that more, I had less of a desire to want to go and prune a tree. Well, you know, I had less of a desire to want to tamper with nature because that's what she was trying to teach me that whole time.

SPEAKER_00: 47:57

Beautiful. Man, you deliver. That was I never would have expected that. That's great, you know. But I think in design and in art, right, we talk about um variants within order, you know, organization and chaos. These are you know what designers think about. And I'm not about to define beauty, right, or even art, but I think we respond to symmetry in nature, if that makes sense. We respond, you know, that's how sacred geometry came about. And I think every organism has that fascinating balance between bilateral symmetry, for example, and then variance. So I love that what we can learn from nature is that we do have the goods, maybe in our DNA, maybe not, but to become what we're meant to become, and you just gotta maybe surrender a little bit instead of trying to manipulate the outcome all the time. Is that related at all to what you said?

SPEAKER_01: 48:52

It's it's it is, it's the hardest part. It's the surrender piece because you know, you're your whole life, you're and that's the embodiment of actually being safe in uh in the presence of creation itself, right? Whatever you call it, whatever religious, you know, God, you know, spirit, creator. I like using creator because it's you know, you know, the indigenous roots speak of creator. Um, but it's really the surrendering into that everything is going to be how it's going to be. And you actually can create more stress and more turmoil in your life by trying to manipulate and control it. Uh, and it's gonna try and redirect you, right? That's what it's gonna try and do because you know you're going against the effortless way, you're going against the woo-way, the force, you know, of nature.

SPEAKER_00: 49:33

Yeah. And within reason, I I've I'm not gonna remember where I read this, but it's been said that um, you know, I would pray that things come to pass just as they are. And it's not complacency, right? It's not kind of throwing your hands in the air, but there's some wisdom in that. I would pray that things come to pass just as they are. And amen. I like that word, amen, because universal intelligence does know what it's doing, it's uncomfortable, you know, we don't understand it. We understand the tip of an iceberg, but sometimes we have to trust that the universe, you know what I mean, knows how to maintain balance. Our bodies know how to maintain homeostasis, and it's really tough. And I guess that's what the word faith means.

SPEAKER_01: 50:16

Yeah, yeah, and it's much it's easier to say it, you know, than to practice it.

SPEAKER_00: 50:21

It's true, it's true, but it's often ego when we want to control things. Anyway, no, I think there's a balance. We do need to dig in the dirt, we need to diagnose, we need to discern, right? I think it's really trendy to to uh seek non, you know, to pursue non-judgment, but maybe the balance is just understand discernment is there for our survival, and so it's okay to judge if it's under the guise of discernment. I think we're all kind of struggling with all with that.

SPEAKER_01: 50:48

Yeah, it's a tool in your belt.

SPEAKER_00: 50:50

Right. I love that. Sorry if I'm speaking in really general terms here. Virginia, I feel like you have something to say.

SPEAKER_03: 50:57

Um, I have been listening, and everything you guys have already pretty much hit on everything, so I think I'd be repeating myself.

SPEAKER_04: 51:04

But it does the the one part, you know, that I'd probably add to that is that from what I was taken away from it, it goes to like what I teach a lot when I sit with clients, is um instead of going out and pursuing and trying to find meaning, is making meaning. So it kind of goes back to the whole alchemist thing that when you you know, after you've gone on this journey, you come home, right? And you realize the everything you need was in your backyard. It's it's now you have a better lens to take the c so your cognition can kick in and see how the pieces that already have been around you, how to put them together to make the meaning in your life and therefore the purpose that's attached to it.

SPEAKER_00: 51:50

Wow. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04: 51:51

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00: 51:51

Yeah, and that speaks to your hero, Frankel, as well, right? Well, does he distinguish between meaning making, which is arguably a human impulse, right, to connect dots and make meaning? So assigning meaning or creating meaning, you like you. I love you gave me the visual of taking all the elements around you and arranging them in a meaningful way, rather than going out and seeking the meaning right outside of yourself.

SPEAKER_04: 52:16

And and that that is actually um one of the foundational pillars of logo therapy that is through Victor Frankel, um, is is that concept that it's we have arranging rather than seeking new circumstances and conditions. Exactly. And I typically use the kaleidoscope a lot of the time. So that's where my narrative side comes in when I'm in in therapy to explain that to people that we're all handed a kaleidoscope and it has the same color shards in it. And how we turn it is how we're gonna see the world.

SPEAKER_02: 52:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 52:49

And so it's learning how to interpret what those what those different colored shards are through our specific kaleidoscope to then assign that meaning and then create the purpose.

SPEAKER_00: 53:01

I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 53:02

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 53:04

Wow, we are having a very stimulating conversation. I do. We so look forward to this podcast because um, I don't know, my back's been out for two weeks, so I've been as close as I ever get to depressed. But this enlivens me to you know realize there are some pretty cool people out there in the world and um that we're kindred spirits, and um yeah, don't worry, I sprained my ankle two weeks ago, so I've also been out for a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_01: 53:31

I call them the spiritual timeouts.

SPEAKER_00: 53:33

Absolutely. Well, exactly. No, I mean, my back has been telling me don't even do your stretches that you normally do, like just drool on the couch. Sometimes you do just have to drool on the couch. Okay, but no, I mean I I jokingly say, like, I can't even sit up and meditate. I know I need to, but my back is telling me do not sit. So what what should I do? Alexandra, what should I do?

SPEAKER_01: 53:56

Lay down to meditate.

SPEAKER_00: 53:58

Well, there is that. Should I do that? No, I have been quieting my mind in different ways, but yes, I can totally meditate on my back. You're right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 54:08

Well, I mean, I think it's just sometimes it's uh it's telling you that we we hold so tightly to a conformed practice at times where that you have to still have flexibility, even in you know, the like the practice that you're you're embodying now. And you know, the other day I went to go and do all the I was going for a kickboxing session. I was gonna go rock climbing, I was gonna do all these things, and then I'm walking down the stairs and I miss the last step on the stairs, and I roll my ankle, and I'm like, well, it looks like I'm not going kickboxing anymore. But it was, you know, the the irony of that is you missed the last step. You weren't meant to, you weren't listening. Oh my god, that's so symbolic.

SPEAKER_00: 54:42

It's got it's symbolic. Virginia, you're how long has your ankle been out, Virginia? Are you on the are you are you?

SPEAKER_04: 54:50

Oh gosh, I'm like three at least three months of not going four months in. I know I have another month where I'm so tired of tennis shoes. Support of athletic, you know, insold shoes. Um yeah, it looks really great when I wear like my cute outfits and then I've got my tinnies on. I've already got the B dazzler. But um, yeah, I've I'm at least three almost four months in. I have another month to go. So yeah, it's it's it has slowed me down, but it's also made me more um aware of I don't eat unhealthy. I'm I'm pretty good about my eating habits, but I'm now 50. And so it's that just typical, you know, struggle that women have with their hormones and metabolic rate, right? So it's made me more intentional and even more um present when I'm eating because I know if I eat certain things, it's not like I can go walk, you know, add extra steps or hit the gym to burn those few extra calories. So it's really made me very intentional about everything I do, even like sitting, how I walk, because you know, for the longest time I was obviously shifting my weight and adjusting so I wouldn't re-injure all the limits that I tore. So yeah, it's it's been an interesting process.

SPEAKER_01: 56:14

Yeah. Slowing down as a woman sometimes is a hard thing to do.

SPEAKER_00: 56:18

Because you gotta you gotta please all the people all the time.

SPEAKER_01: 56:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 56:22

And not yourself. Sorry, I have no business in this conversation.

SPEAKER_01: 56:26

No, no, blessing in disguise, it happens quite often, you know, especially with with women, you know, we're to we're we we know we need to slow down at some points, but the the active mind tells us, no, no, I've got this to do, I've got all these responsibilities. And sometimes craters like you're you know, sit down. Yeah, and then you don't listen, and it's like, okay, well, I'll make you sit down.

SPEAKER_00: 56:44

Well, speaking of meaning making, that is right, these timeouts. You're there to figure out what is the spiritual significance of this, you know. Not that you invite everything, right? But what you do with it, what you do with your circumstances and conditions is always up to you. So that idea of what is this here to teach me? Yeah, and I love your outcome, Virginia, that just being more mindful and you know, more intentional was your word. I love that. In my case, I haven't figured it out yet. But part of me is like, I just today I was like, because I did decide I self-diagnosed, which I often do, that it's sacral um SI, um, sacral iliac joint, you know, the joint between the hips and the lower, because I don't want to go on and on, but I it could be many things because I have a lot of things that kicked in because of my recent health issues and the drugs I had to be on. So it could be, I mean, real quick, I have uh stenosis and arthritis of the lumbar and cervical spine. So, do you know what I mean? It could be a bulging disc, it could be a pinched nerve, we don't know. But the minute my sister said SI, I Googled it to look for the exercises, and I was like, oh my god, that is exactly what's going on. It has nothing to do with the other issues. So, um, but I did realize I've thought about the sacrum probably more than most people. It has so many nerves, right? And they're so intricately, you know, inextricable from your bones. I just am fascinated by the sacrum. There's a lot of nerves down there, and when you have sciatica or when you have this SI joint inflammation, you feel it in your butt, you feel it running down your leg. I'm just kind of fascinated by it. So I don't know. My only conclusion at this point is the human body is fascinating, and we're lucky it works as well as it does most of the time. Do you know that that's kind of my takeaway? And also that we do have a degree, as Virginia and I just did a whole episode of agency. You know, we're taught to be really dependent on the pharmaceutical industry and the whole medical profession. And the truth is we have more agency though than we know. So my sister did heal herself from the SI, and uh, I'm about to, once I feel like I'm not doing more damage, I'm gonna do the same exercise she did, and you know what I mean, and just take care of it myself. I don't need to run to a doctor for this. Those are my takeaways today. Talk to me tomorrow and see what I've come to.

SPEAKER_04: 59:05

Well, oh, go ahead. Oh, I was just saying the fact that you reached out, you know, well, not like you specifically reached out to your sister, Dominic, but the fact that you talked to her, you know, let her let her know what was going on, and then took that help because that's I want to say that's one of the big things too, going back to the concept of interconnectivity, you know, making meaning in our lives, finding purpose, and and you know, with my intentions and having that, you know, self-awareness more of like so bringing up ginger roles. Um, I was typically the one who always cleaned the house. Not that not that my spouse did not help, he did, but I was the main person who maintained the house, at least internally, um, when it came to the cleaning. And so I haven't been able to do a lot of that stuff. And today I was actually feeling better and I was like, oh, you know, I'm I'm gonna really deep clean our our bathroom, you know, because my husband's been taking care of that. And I walked into the and he was already in there doing it, and I was just like, I mean, like how I would do it. And I and I just one it helped me go like, wow, I need to show more appreciation in my relationships with people when they just take it upon themselves to help me out and the and being better about asking for that help to lean on those in my inner circle when I need to. So that's that's the other thing I think when when things like this happen in our lives, it's it's the it's the universe really trying to smack us the side of the head and going, quit being so self serving and self sufficient that you forget you're part of a whole too.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:36

I love that. So beautiful. Yeah, it's gratitude as well, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:39

It's just okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:42

Woo! So we've been talking for about an Hour, but I feel like we didn't really get to all the cultures you spent time with. I'm trying to get to New Zealand and Taraniki because I have a strange connection with Taraniki. I want how did you end up in New Zealand?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:59

Okay. So after I spent a bit of time in Ireland and Europe doing some paintings. And when I came back, I did like a year of acts of service. And I was so in love with it that I wanted to stay. And then all of a sudden I was just pushed back onto the road uh circumstantially. And uh so I took a job uh training horses over in New Zealand and got my visa and I popped over there, and uh a lot of my my cycles and my patterns started to repeat themselves, you know, even across on the other side of the world. I was faced with the same mirror and I was like, oh come on.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:31

And so um why why would that be? Because you were back in a cosmopolitan area or surrounded by humans? Why why did they kick in?

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:41

Um well, a lot of the a lot of the the trauma and the patterns I was peating were relational uh situations. So it wasn't even like the dynamic of like, you know, the medicine of New Zealand and the Maori culture was was something that was so profound in my journey and it really walks with me uh in my practice and ceremony spaces. But the initial um you know job posting that I took was working with these animals, and these animals weren't so well taken care of. And it really put me in a place of having to defend something innocent against the relationships that I would be a people pleaser in. So it was really throwing me this curveball of like, okay, well, now it's not just about me defending my my innocence, it's actually about me protecting something outside of me. So it's actually pushing me to stand more in my in my voice and in my power of of um, you know, my traumas and the unraveling of my behaviorisms.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:31

And how did that go over with with ego in the equation?

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:36

Well, it's um it it was it was it was good at the beginning, and then eventually my ego kicked in.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:43

No, I meant them. Like if they don't get it, and now like you said, it's bigger than me and I'm protecting others. Did you find a way of you know what I mean? Um asserting yourself without feeling the need to be diplomatic? I that's what I heard in there. That you were trying to be a people pleaser, but maybe it was an opportunity to get past that and just stand your ground, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:04

Yeah, yeah. Initially it was. This was one of the I call this one of my bigger beasts, like one of my bigger demons to kind of work through because um I I start strong and then eventually somehow it starts to creep in or I get a little bit tired, it starts to weaken me a little bit. And then eventually my other side of you know, parts of my personality maybe uh are taking a you know a turn and there's a bit of entitlement there or a little bit of pride kicking in. And so, you know, I'm dancing with all these accountabilities of all these moving parts, and I think, you know, eventually I started losing uh my judgment because of the circumstance. And what had happened was when I started doing that, the horse that I was training, she she threw me off and and and I hit the ground and I fractured my ribs and I fractured my collarbone and tore all the muscles left side of my body. And then, you know, that was actually like the last day I was training her, and the last day I was at this farm. And then I went and spent two months living off grid next to a volcano.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:01

And all of a sudden I'm here and like one does.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:05

And I'm from, you know, I'm chopping firewood with fractured ribs, and I'm and I can't pick up my bag to go home. And I'm I'm sitting in this, it's like this spiritual timeout, and I'm like, oh, we really this is a big one, you know. This is the one where we really, you know, and this is the the problem where someone gets caught in between the knowing and the acting, right? Where ignorance no longer plays a part, but it's so hard to act uh and change your behaviorisms when the ego can be as strong as it is. And so, and I knew better, right? And I knew my I knew better, so that was my consequence. That was my karmic, karmic cycle happening. And it probably created it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:43

I relate to that in that sometimes you know exactly what you need to do, but you don't have the free will to just do it. Like with my back, it's the same old thing. Like, I know what I need to do, I just can't, you know. And then I rationalize it. Go, no, my back wants me to just lie on the couch and drool right now. And I try to figure out the message, but sometimes I mean lately I've that theme has come up. I know what I need to do. Why don't I have the free will to do it? Might be the first time in my life I don't have the free will to look out for myself. Sorry, I don't know if that's related.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:15

Uh no, it it is, and I think that's sometimes where we have to start. Instead of like, you know, challenging, I don't have the free will, it's asking yourself, why don't I have the free will? Where like and then going into that piece of discomfort where, like, where where have I lost my free will right now? You know, what what's got a hold of me that I'm not seeing? There's something hidden here that I'm not I'm not consciously bringing to the table. Something's active, you know, in the psyche in the shadow self or whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:38

And you're trying to be like, okay, where are you? Where are you sitting? I want to dialogue with you. And and you know, the same, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:44

Sorry, in your case, I've heard I've never had a broken rib, but I've heard it's one of the most painful injuries. Was there any symbolism? Was breathing? You mentioned chopping wood, like the act of breathing is kind of fundamental to life, right? Was there any spiritual significance to the breaking of the ribs?

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it was all on the left side of my body. So in ceremony spaces and stuff, you know, your left side is your mother's side, your feminine side. So it was I was I wounded my feminine side because I was acting out of my masculine energy too strong. And so I needed to learn to breathe again, and I need to learn to be soft again, and I needed to learn to come back down again, you know, from whatever high I was riding on my my ego trip, you know. And so I had to just it was, it was, it was be still, you know, don't move, don't go in these places. And it's it's hard for me because I've been in survival for so long, or I've been in my masculine and I've been this, you know, really strong, independent woman kind of attitude for so long. And now it started to it stopped serving me. You know, now it was like I actually want to be feminine, but I my body wanted it, my mind wasn't catching up, you know. And then I was like, oh, there's not, there's there's no there's no communication happening here. So you know, and it was it was painful, right? And and now you're you know, you want to be masculine, you know, here you go, here's your situation. You're masculine, you've got fractured ribs, go and chop your firewood. You know what I mean? This is if this is what you're asking for, and you're like, oh, maybe I actually don't want this. Maybe I want to lean on help, maybe I want to soften, maybe I want to receive, you know, maybe I in and this is some of the deeper questions that you start asking yourself uh and what you're going into, and then you start digging up, you know, all your trauma with it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:23

I'm wondering if the book that comes out of all of this, uh sorry, I don't remember the name right now, but are you I'm just fascinated by specific lessons when you look at, you know, especially medical issues or health challenges, the spiritual significance of a manifestation, you know. Will your book talk about the specific lessons you learned again from the elders in a given tribe or from an injury like that? And because that was such a great when you said, you know, it was only the left side of my body, therefore I had to really come to terms with my feminine side. Like that is your book full of anecdotes like that. Say yes, please.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:04

Yes, yes, 100%. I'm a hundred percent. It's like it's my life's work is about is about being able to listen to the body. And the beauty is, you know, that that's what it's interesting that I had a big injury in a place where the Maori culture also believed that very prominently in their practice, where they believe that your body's ailments and things like that are trying to tell you something. So they don't go to the doctor's uh first time, you know, that's right away. They they also sit with their pain, they also sit with the discomfort, they try to understand what had happened with the scenario and they move it, they move it out of their body with their minds. And it's it's it's skillful, and you actually can feel when you're moving something out and when you're releasing something out of your body, and the deeper you go into that practice, the more you realize, you know, your freedom of choice just to just to be in your own body, you know, and and your ailments and everything like that are telling you things.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:53

And well, and the agency, like I said, we did a whole episode about agency, and but I did since, by the way, Virginia, I've since learned, you know, I've become friendly with the Chad GPT. I'm not proud of it, but I did I did ask it, you know, literally what percentage of doctor visits, you know what I mean, of symptoms that we seek medical attention for actually require it. Ninety percent of things would take care of themselves if we weren't socialized to believe we depend on doctors. Literally 90%. If you just let it pass, I mean some things take longer than others, right? Like your ankle, Virginia. But if you take the spiritual lesson thrown in your path and you do the work, it might take two weeks, it might take a month, it might take a year. Your body knows how to repair itself within reason. We're all gonna die, right? But anyway, I love that uh Maori approach, and I think Western society could adopt that because we're so brainwashed to believe we need to depend on pharmaceuticals to stay above ground.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:59

Yeah, it's the information they don't want you to know, though, right? Because it's what's feeding them. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:05

Well, I try to, I you know, I think thank God for Western medicine, you know, some of the developments. I just think we need to acknowledge the spiritual suit, I mean the energetic element. We treat everything chemically, you know. What about prevention? What about diet and lifestyle? And so I don't like to poo-poo modern Western medicine, thank God for some of the advancements. However, and I think we are on that path, you know, we're starting to embrace Eastern tradition a little more and talk about energetic influences and not just chemical, right? But um anyway, uh I do resonate with the Maori culture in a strange way, and I've had um opportunities to work in both New Zealand and Australia, but it's been kind of a hit and miss relationship. It's never happened. But I've gotten several job offers and kind of done enough research to get excited about, you know, whether it's Canberra or Wellington, wherever the studio is. So I feel like I'm meant to be there at some point. And some of my tattoos are Maori, by the way. So what is the biggest thing you learned from them? Was it that agency with regard to health, or what was the biggest thing you learned from the Maori culture?

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:15

Uh health was a was a big one. Um, but it was it was, you know, there's such an overlap between the indigenous culture here and the Maori culture. There, they have a lot of similarities. Um, and you know, I was so privileged to to work with uh some Maori kids. And the and the kids actually became one of some of my greater teachers, especially when they're you know, they're honoring you with a haka or they're you know they're imparting their wisdom and they speak, you know, about the land and and the way that she communicates to you. And it's it's so profound what their teachings are. And you know, you're gonna adopt different things, but the premise is all indigenous tribes and cultures spoke with the land, and their interpretations alter, but they all spoke to the land, and then they inspire you to also speak to the land and their ancestors and their stars, and you know, it's it's like you some of the most beautiful stars you've ever seen have been in Autoroa. I should say Autoroa, uh, as opposed to New Zealand, just to honor them a bit better. But um, and you know, it's they've been stripped of that culture, but they're they're so resilient, they're so they're they're warriors, you know, they they're not gonna let you know history or or anything like that stop them from what they're embodying. Um, and I think it's the most beautiful thing to be a witness of.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:31

Well, let me ask you this, because obviously our podcast is all about story. It seems to me that the origin stories, right, and the mythology of that culture is what communicates these principles, right? They're so connected to the land. Like even just the origin story of Taraniki is is so defining. It's so defining about the Maori culture. Do you want to talk to that a little bit? The mythology, the sort of archetypes inherent in these origin stories.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:01

Yeah. So I, you know, when I was in uh Mount Taranaki, the um the it was around Matariki, which was their um their Maori New Year's, and they celebrate the you know, the seven sisters, which are the seven stars in the sky. So they use constellations quite a lot. Um, but they speak, you know, they speak about your mana. So your mana is your spirit, right? And so you've got you know the water and all the different elements that are that are dancing with you. And um, but they they have a regard for for their elders and for the women. And the seven sisters was what they celebrate on Matsuriiki. So it's these seven sisters that go up onto this mountain and they they try and fly their kites. And the um the wind wasn't picking up. So all of the sisters decided to sleep under this tree. And the last sister, the youngest sister, she didn't sleep under the tree. She was awake, she was waiting for the wind, she was all excited, she really wanted her kite to fly. And uh when the sisters woke up, she was praying for the wind. And when the sisters woke up, the kite was in the air. All of their kites were in the air, and so they all became the stars. And so it became this beautiful, this beautiful celebration. And you know, you're witnessing all these people come together on on a day like this, and you're you're watching them celebrate the stars, you're watching them with their hakas, you know, in honoring of the elements, in honoring of the elders and the teachings. And there's and there's so much, there's so much to learn there. I haven't even personally learned uh even the surface of it. I've just been honored to to witness a few a few events. Um, but there's so much more to unpack. Um and if they're willing to teach you, and that's the most beautiful part, a lot of them are, you know, if you're willing to listen.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:41

Yeah, wow. Well, I I wanted you said something a few minutes ago I want to follow up on, which is, you know, the Maori culture seems to share a lot with Native American culture. Why do you suppose that is? I mean, I could speculate through my own worldview, but why do you suppose a lot of indigenous cultures share so much?

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:04

So after traveling from you know different places and experiencing things, I think, you know, and and and the shamans that I actually walk with when I'm in Africa, they they put it so beautifully that creator reached our hearts in different ways. Um, and that's why there's an overlap. You know, creator reached the people of North America the same way that he reached the people of you know, outaroa, the same way he reached the people of Africa. Um, the way that they interpret, because our creativity is limitless and our perspective and our our uh interpretation can be limitless, um, reflects in those cultures, reflects to the land of that area, reflects to the teachings. And um, and that's where like, you know, we're we get medicines from and that kind of thing. So although the medicines may be different, although the the practices may be different, the overlap is the initial principle of their practice. And that's what's that's the that's the same, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:55

It's fascinating to me. You know, I Joseph Campbell is a comparative religion expert, right? And so when you start going down that road of like whether it's uh Joseph Campbell or uh Moore, you see that we're just wired to understand the metaphysical disposition of the universe, you know, and it's we're wired to have a huge understanding of nature, and it's maybe it's kind of uh what we're calling the dream spell illusion, or I did anyway. That it's socialization and the status quo, you know, that blinds us to our innate wiring to understand existence. Does that make sense a little bit? And that's what we have to undo, you know. When I I heard a parallel too, like you did some personal work through isolation, but you also undid some socialization, so we understand ourselves better when we go on these walkabouts or these medicine walks, but we also begin to understand the human condition better. Does that make sense? It's it's parallel, there's always the micro and the macro.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:57

Absolutely. And I think at the end of the day, you know, what creator really wants is you just to be closer to to the essence of which you come from, right? And that's that's the hard part because the ego has is what separates you from creator. And it and it's you know, we speak of ego in a in a in a negative connotation sometimes, but it's really you know our defensive mechanism, our protection, our survivor, you know, that those within us. And yeah, there's a well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:22

Oh, I'm so sorry. No, yeah, there's a theme in the seeker about how yes, we're all extensions of collective consciousness, right? We're just a little chunk of collective consciousness, but the only way to exist in the physical realm is yeah, through ego. So you don't get eaten by a tiger, or you know, like it's the gift. We get the gift of life in the physical realm because of our ego as an extension of collective consciousness.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:46

Yeah, absolutely. And it's when you're unraveling those parts, you're thanking it as you're doing it. So it allows that the you know, the we we have this war going on inside of ourselves, and we're frustrated and we're shameful, and we're creating the vicious loop that keeps us cycling in the ego as opposed to just seeing it for what it is and saying, Well, thank you, you kept me safe.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:04

Right. We like we like to demonize it. We demonize our our base instincts and uh yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:10

They just need a little love.

unknown: 1:18:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:12

Well, that's Thomas More embracing the shadow, as we said, embracing the shadow side of human nature. And uh Virginia, what about Jungian philosophy? That's largely about embracing the shadow as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:23

Um, it is uh the shadow self versus the the known self. Um I'm not I know it, it's just not my deep dive. I'm more on the other side of of the thing. But when I was listening to you guys, you know, going on about that. So this this is a concept, a theory that I'm the for identity formation that I'm working with. So it's it's the whole concept of authentic self versus our constructive identity and and it's relational the way it is relational to each other. So um basically the authentic self is our unconditioned essence. So when you when we're talking about creator um or the universal, to me, those are the um undeniable truths, right? That that resonate no matter where we are um or what language we speak. They're just the you know, um, they're just the the truths that are the truths. So I and and I know people are like, well, I you know, here's my personal truth. And I think that's where the socialization, the culture, the words we use to describe it is when is when we say it's our truth because we just say things in a different way, but the undeniable truths are still what they are, even if we use a different language to our word to try and describe it. So the authors. Is that uncon unconditioned essence of who we are, the part of us that basically exist before the layers um of the expectations, the socializations, the survival strategies, the narratives that were given at birth from our families of origin, the culture in which we're grown up in, and then anything else, you know, that's on the you know, external side of things. And and then that it's those things that basically become our constructed identity. It's the the things that you take on.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:20

Yeah, yeah, so many parallels. That's what's fascinating when you look at you know human nature through a psychological lens. Or I think there's so many ways of expressing it. But one parallel that occurs to me is I think we've talked about it a little bit on here in Virginia, the DMN, the default mode network of the brain. It's what literally uh ensures that uh you understand, you know, it's like you're saying personality, identity, and it's largely constructed through memory, but we don't even know where memories live, right? But it's the only way you don't lose yourself and immerse yourself in the collective is this understanding that you're the discrete, right? Uh individual, and yet only brain chemistry, maybe serotonin, I think there's a couple others that determine just how this you know how strong your sense of self is. And we all have moments like we you we've said when we have peak experiences or when we're meditating where we recognize our interconnectivity, and uh Deepek Chopper would say and metahuman and a squid could appear in your driveway. Right, like the field of pure potential kind of takes over, and or and if you've ever had a family member with Alzheimer's, you see you have a front row seat to how you lose all those identifiers of the individual and they become much more immersed in the collective. Is that a parallel or not? Did I imagine that?

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:43

No, no, it it is, and I and I think and then Algen Alexandra brought up, you know, perfectly when she was talking about the ego, how it is our protective mechanism. And that's that's the thing we see when someone has, like you just said, like dementia, Alzheimer's, is the the ego side, which is part of the construct for me. I I consider that that that's your you know constructed identity, right? Um, because that's that's the cognition that comes in to take those things to say this is who I am and put it into words. So it's an identifiable, you know, basically art form living within within the collective. And so that's what we see disappear.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:21

It's it's when because we get exhausted. Yeah, ego is exhausting, right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:27

It is because it's and because it's always it's always changing, it's it's in constant motion.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:34

I love it. Alexandra, ego, diffusion of ego, Alzheimer's, anything?

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:40

Yeah, yeah. No, actually, I've I've been a witness to um a few people with dementia and Alzheimer's, and I and it's and it's an interesting thing to like watch, even just with children, from like, you know, from young kids all the way to elderly people, um, how the evolution of the ego starts to change, where it starts, where it begins, where it starts to like create itself. And then when it starts to unravel itself or alter itself to meet the meet the condition of of the human body, of the physical, right? And um, and it's interesting because I actually I used music um as a tool a lot of the times with uh people who have Alzheimer's if I'm doing any kind of healing with that. And it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:19

It's so powerful, isn't it, to tap back into their identity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:22

Yeah. And like they they may not for they may not remember any single family member, but the vibrational frequency of music isn't gone, you know. So then it goes to show like that the creativity or like the the consciousness of of something that's beyond maybe the you know the intellectual side of being human exists still behind the scenes there and still brings them joy and peace and that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:45

Yeah, it's soul level, right? Yeah, I've seen some amazing. Well, again, there's so many uh examples in our own family, but I've seen some amazing videos of how music it's not that it brings them back because it is soul level, like we said, but they just seem more present somehow, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:03

Yeah, joyful. I mean, it must be hard to be to be you know in a state of confusion constantly and and things not always operating and people around you that you all of a sudden knew and now you don't know, but music, the familiarity and the joy, like if we can give somebody that who's going through a time like you know, that's a little bit confusing, then I think we're we're doing okay in humanity.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:24

I love that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:25

Yeah, so so here's a thought that ties to that, which it also goes back to the whole you know creative side and and how story comes into it. So as I was listening, you guys talk about I was thinking how the ego constructs the walls to protect, but the authentic self opens windows to see. So if we think about that, healing isn't about erasing that ego, um, it's teaching us to serve the truth rather than to defend the illusion.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:51

I like that. I was gonna say, and I'll sit with that one for a while. You know, we always on second listen, by the way, this will seem way more linear, Alexandra. And there's always so much more there, you know. We're always we try not to, but we're often thinking of the next thing we're gonna say. And I'm I think Virginia and I both, I don't want to speak for you, but we're always amazed how linear these conversations are on second listen and how there's always multiple levels. So, but anyway, on that note, I do we're we're definitely not gonna get to everything. So, you're one of the guests that I'm gonna say, please come on for a part two because I'd love to I love picking your brain and um it's stimulating for me. Is there anything that we didn't get to that you're really hoping to impart to listeners? I wanna direct, we'll be putting your links, by the way, in the episode description. So I want everybody to look out for the book. And is there a crowdfunding campaign for the book? Did I did I hear that correctly?

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:46

Uh yeah, so I just launched that. Just if um what I'm gonna do is just kind of put some information out there. Um, and and a lot of the things that I do in Africa, um, uh I'll be going back in a few weeks, um, are a lot of grassroots projects in like communities that are very poverty and whatnot. So not only is the book or the artwork and that kind of stuff, all their sales kind of is funneled into projects like that over overseas. Um, but also if anybody feels called to, you know, donating and whatnot, it's kind of I I'm I'm a big fan of NGOs and things like that, but I'm also a big fan of going into speaking with the people. And that's kind of what I've devoted my last six months to doing was actually having communication with people and finding out and listening to their needs rather than just assuming that I know what they need. And um, so I like to just, you know, act as a little bit of a bridge that, you know, if people want to put some money towards people that I can make sure that it gets directly to them, and then there's not like a lot of you know, middleman and administration administrative stuff that kind of happens in between. But other than that, um, yeah, just just look out for the book.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:51

Okay, and we'll put a link to Lupa Vella as well.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:54

Um, but just uh yeah, I guess I'm saying we're getting down to the wire here. So any final words of wisdom you would like to share or anything we didn't get to other than the logistics of Lupa Vella and the funding?

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:10

Um, I think I'm just I think I'm just grateful. I think it's um, you know, today has been a very uh insightful time. It's been so it there's a lot of resonance speaking with you guys. And it's it's nice to see the evolution of the journey. Um, like I said, from like a story told or sorry, a story lived into a story told. Um so it's really uh a first step, and I'm I'm so honored to to be on this podcast and sharing it with you and hearing your your wisdom as well. And uh yeah, it's more like a cheers to the beginning, a lot of gratitude. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:42

You know, we we feel very blessed to have you, and I know not only is some of this gonna resonate with listeners, but you're going to inspire a lot of people. You certainly inspired me, so thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:53

Cheers, thank you guys.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:55

All right, Virginia. Bye. Okay, all right, and to our listeners, remember life is story, and we can get our hands in the clay individually and collectively. We can tell a new story. See you next time.