When Duty Calls: Bill Walton's Life in Uniform

From the battlefields of Vietnam to the highways of Michigan, Bill Walton's story is a remarkable journey through service, sacrifice, and resilience. Born in Lansing in 1948, Bill's path took an unexpected turn when he was drafted into military service in 1967. As a radio operator stationed near the DMZ in northern Vietnam, he faced the brutal realities of combat that would shape his perspective for decades to come.

The conversation takes us through Bill's harrowing experiences, including a serious shrapnel wound sustained during an intense battle at Cam Duck Special Forces Camp. Despite injuries that should have sent him home, Bill completed his full tour – "twelve months, two weeks" as he precisely recalls. His matter-of-fact descriptions of 68 days without changing uniforms and encountering death for the first time at just 18 years old offer a sobering glimpse into the realities faced by thousands of young Americans during the Vietnam conflict.

Upon returning home to a less-than-welcoming reception, Bill channeled his experiences into a career dedicated to public service. His journey through the rigorous Michigan State Police Academy – which he describes as even more challenging than military training – led to assignments across the state, from Detroit's tough Redford Post to his final position in Alpena. Throughout his law enforcement career, Bill worked patrol and narcotics, facing life-threatening situations that tested the resilience he'd developed in Vietnam.

Beyond his professional life, Bill shares touching personal stories – meeting his wife Mary through a humorous blind date mix-up that led to a 45-year marriage, raising two daughters, and now enjoying his role as grandfather to seven grandchildren. His post-retirement years continued the theme of service as he worked as a bailiff, probation officer, and volunteer firefighter.

Bill's straightforward storytelling, occasionally punctuated with unexpected humor, reveals a man who faced extraordinary circumstances with remarkable fortitude. His journey reminds us of the profound impact military service has on those who serve and the quiet heroism of individuals who choose to protect others despite personal cost. Listen to this powerful conversation with a true American hero whose life embodies service above self.

Transcript

Early Life in Lansing

Speaker 1 0:33

Today is Thursday, may 22nd 2025. We're talking with Bill Walton, who served in the United States Army. Well, good afternoon, bill. Good afternoon, it's good to see you today. Good to see you too. All right, we're going to start kind of simple. When and where were you born?

Speaker 2 0:51

Lansing, michigan. Okay, 1948.

Speaker 1 0:54

All right. And did you grow up in Lansing Most of my life? Yes, All right. And did you grow up in Lansing Most of my life? Yes, All right. Where in Lansing did you?

Speaker 2 1:01

grow up Colonial Village, oh, off of.

Speaker 1 1:03

Mount Hope, yeah Over by Dwight Rich School. I think is over there now, I don't know. Might not have been there back in the day right?

Speaker 2 1:12

The golf course for the club.

Speaker 1 1:16

Oh, the Lansing Country Club yeah.

Speaker 2 1:19

Yeah, it was just down the street. We used to putt on their greens, did you, did they?

Speaker 1 1:23

know that. No, Well, how many so? Did you have brothers and sisters?

Speaker 2 1:29

I had a brother, okay, and we think two more brothers that died, but I don't know. Okay, I don't even know if I'll find him.

Speaker 1 1:36

All right that died, but I don't know. I haven't been able to find them.

Speaker 2 1:38

Was your brother older than you or younger than you? I think I'm the youngest, so they're all older, my brother's six years older than me.

Speaker 1 1:49

Okay, and what do you recall about growing up in Lansing? At that time, do you remember anything that you did as a kid? I know you putted on the country club's greens for sure. Anything else you remember?

Speaker 2 2:02

Well, yeah, my life, I went to school there and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 2:07

Okay, what was school like for you?

Speaker 2 2:10

It was okay until the nuns started picking on us.

Speaker 1 2:13

Oh, okay, so you went to parochial school. You went to Catholic school, unfortunately. Okay, so you went to parochial school. You went to Catholic school, unfortunately. Yes, okay, this was back in the day where they hit your knuckles with a ruler too, isn't it? Were they dead, did they?

Speaker 2 2:26

Yes, we were picked on. Uh-huh, if you were a little bit like I, was a troublemaker, we got picked on even worse.

Speaker 1 2:35

I can't imagine that you were a troublemaker. Yeah, what kind of trouble did you get into in school.

Speaker 2 2:42

Well, I hid behind the piano in one of our classes and she walked in and looked around and said Okay, William, come to me. And I got spanked. I think I don't know if she spanked me or my dad did, but one of us got there, I got spanked. I think I don't know if she spanked me or my dad did, but one of us got there, I got spanked anyway.

Speaker 1 3:00

Yeah, now, did you go to a Catholic school throughout school, okay, and did you play sports or anything like that in school?

Speaker 2 3:11

In eighth grade I played football for our school, okay, st Cashmere's.

Speaker 1 3:17

Okay, I'm familiar with St Cashmere's. I think there was St Cashmere's and Resurrection was there no.

Speaker 2 3:24

St Cashmere's was out in South Lansing.

Speaker 1 3:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:28

And the other I don't know. Okay.

Speaker 1 3:30

So did you play just that one year.

Speaker 2 3:32

No, I played two or three years there.

Speaker 1 3:36

And how'd you like it?

Speaker 2 3:38

It was all right.

Speaker 1 3:39

Yeah, were there any subjects in school that you really enjoyed? No, school wasn't your thing. No, okay.

Speaker 2 3:50

I'd rather have gone out and did about anything rather than spend time doing homework and stuff.

Speaker 1 3:55

I see. So what about your parents? What can you tell me about your mom and dad? Anything that comes to mind?

Speaker 2 4:02

My dad worked at Osoville Uh-huh. Mom worked for a doctor's office. You know to do breaks and arm breaks and things like that Broken bones I should say Okay, so was she a nurse then. Or just she just worked there A doctor?

Speaker 1 4:20

Oh, your mom was a doctor, oh no.

Speaker 2 4:22

My mom was, she'd take the calls and set up the appointments, okay.

Speaker 1 4:27

Okay, and they both did that till they retired, or?

Speaker 2 4:31

Yeah, my dad, my dad did it. I think my dad died on the way to work. Oh, I think, okay, he died on the way to work, but getting ready for work he died in the bathroom. Oh, had a heart attack and died. Okay, so I've been without a dad for a lot of years.

Speaker 1 4:54

How old were you when your dad passed away?

Speaker 2 5:00

How old?

Speaker 1 5:00

were you when your dad passed away, 14, 15 maybe, oh, so you were a young guy yeah, all right, no, dad, no, I was a baby Remember.

Speaker 2 5:09

Oh, that's right.

Speaker 1 5:10

I was a baby. Yeah, okay, my memory's starting to leave me, so Believe me, I have to wear a name tag most of the time to remember who I am. So I'm 100% with you. So you graduated high school.

Speaker 2 5:25

Yes.

Speaker 1 5:26

And then? So what happens after high school?

Speaker 2 5:29

I worked for a company that did shingling. Okay, so I worked shingling houses.

Speaker 1 5:40

And then, when did you end up joining the military?

Speaker 2 5:43

I didn't join it. Okay, let's talk about that. I was drafted, you were drafted.

Speaker 1 5:47

Yes, okay Was. This would have been what the mid-60s then.

Speaker 2 5:52

Would have been 67. Okay, and were you?

Speaker 1 5:55

married at the time. No, no, all right. Where did you married at the time?

Speaker 2 5:57

No.

Speaker 1 5:59

No, where did you go to basic training? Fort Knox, okay. And what do you remember about basic training?

Military Draft and Vietnam

Speaker 2 6:09

I don't know. Okay, we just got up in the morning, did everything we had to do and go to bed at night. We knew about the last week of our training where we were going. They gave it away. They said you guys are. I was a radio operator and I was carrying a radio for the boss.

Speaker 1 6:36

Okay, so when you left Fort, did you stay at Fort Knox for the rest of your training, or?

Speaker 2 6:42

No, I went to another post. It was I hate to say it, it's the only way I remember it Fort Puke, lausanne.

Speaker 1 6:51

I know Fort Puke. I know where you're talking about.

Speaker 2 6:53

Yeah, it was a couple of weeks we spent there.

Speaker 1 6:57

Okay.

Speaker 2 6:58

And then we went to different places overseas. Uh-huh, there was a guy that was with me right from the start to the very end, lived in Grand Rapids. At the time His dad was a range officer for Grand Rapids PD, so him and I were best buds. And then, when we went to Vietnam, they split us up. Okay, he went south towards Saigon and I went north towards the DMZ.

Speaker 1 7:25

All right. And what kind of things did you do in Vietnam?

Speaker 2 7:30

I carried a radio so I was constantly talking on the radio. I remember was constantly talking on the radio. I remember our training when I was still at Fort Knox and we were involved in it. But we didn't know what we were getting into and he went, like I said, he went south to Saigon and I went north to that DMZ. We never saw each other until my wife died a few years ago. When she died, I saw him. I hadn't seen, I didn't know who he was. You know, I hadn't seen him in 50 years or whatever yeah, what was it like seeing him again, oh it was kind of cool.

Speaker 1 8:16

Yeah, yeah. So have you met up with any of your other people that you served with?

Speaker 2 8:23

No, Just him. Yeah, we took a beating when I was in. We lost a lot of guys, yeah, so we didn't see them at all.

Speaker 1 8:33

Okay, what kind of unit were you in?

Speaker 2 8:36

Infantry.

Speaker 1 8:37

Infantry. All right, so you were right there on the front line then.

Speaker 2 8:42

Front line, middle line and then dragging up the rear Right, Yep.

Speaker 1 8:47

Well, it wasn't a typical war, was it?

Speaker 2 8:49

No, well, I don't know, that was the only war I ever knew, right, yep. And in May 12, 68, I got wounded and went back to a hospital there and well, we had, we could walk. They let us walk around. If you were in crutches, you could be on crutches and I could walk. And I see a guy and I went, maleko. His name was Maleko Dave Maleko. He was a year ahead of me in high school, played basketball for our team for high school. I said how the hell did you get here Drafted? So they weren't picky on who they drafted Not saying that he's picky.

Speaker 1 9:39

Right, right.

Speaker 2 9:40

More than I was, because I knew who he was. Uh-huh, I know we're in the same situation, yet he was a star in high school basketball, but that was kind of unique to run into somebody you knew. Yeah, millions well, not millions thousands of guys were over there and I run into a guy that I knew.

Speaker 1 10:02

Kind of brings a little piece of home Kind of Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 10:06

Yeah, that was kind of unique. Yeah, one little story I got shot in the leg or got fresh wrapped around my legs and they took us in off of an airplane, not a helicopter. We weren't picked up by helicopters, we flew in in a C-130. And when we got there they pushed me. I was awake enough that I knew what was going on. We were up for about four or five days and so they pushed me over, had wheels on the cart. They pushed me over to a triage area and that triage area I fell asleep and I commented to the lady, the nurse, how tall she was and she said how do you think I'm tall? I said, well, aren't you? And she goes no, I'm like 5'5" or something like that. And she said do you realize you're on the floor? I got taken off with a gurney onto a stretcher that's why I was and I thought what a dumbass.

Speaker 1 11:23

So you thought you were sitting way up here, right? Well, yeah, well, I did, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 11:29

I didn't know it. I was out of it really. So how did you get?

Speaker 1 11:33

your injury.

Speaker 2 11:35

Shrapnel.

Speaker 1 11:36

Okay.

Speaker 2 11:36

We were in a battle up in a place called Cam Duck Special Forces Camp and they kind of overran us there and a lot of us died and a lot of us got wounded. Just about everybody was hurt in some way. And that's my story about that.

Speaker 1 11:58

Okay, so from there did they just patch you up and send you back.

Speaker 2 12:02

Well, they told me that any where you break of a femur was an automatic trip home. It wasn't for me. I still had to stay. I was there for 12 months, two weeks, I don't know. I had it all down before. I can't think of it now.

Speaker 1 12:24

Yeah, I used to keep count of the minutes and the seconds too.

Speaker 2 12:27

Well, we had short time calendars. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 12:31

Oh yeah. So what did you do the rest of your time there then, after you got wounded?

Speaker 2 12:38

Well, I got sent, I thought I was going home and it didn't heal too fast, and I'm still complaining about that. When I get hurt, I get hurt Usually right away I'm healed, and so that's what happened, and I had to go back in the field and I ended up spending my whole 12 months I can't think of the rest of it 12 months that I spent in Vietnam Actually it was 12 and a half months. I can't think of the rest of it 12 months that I spent in Vietnam Actually it was 12 and a half months. 12 months, six 12 months, two weeks, I don't know. I used to remember that. Why wouldn't I remember it? Anyway, that's.

Speaker 1 13:19

Okay, and then anything else happened there that you want to talk about?

Speaker 2 13:24

And then you anything else happen there that you want to talk about? Well, I saw. I had never seen a dead body before. That was the first time in my life I ever saw any dead bodies.

Speaker 1 13:32

All right, well, talk to me about that. What was that like for you?

Speaker 2 13:38

It was different because I had never seen death. All my buddies one of them, one of my buddies' dad died when we were in high school. But I don't remember it at all, I don't remember being there or anything. But I get to Vietnam and I'm seeing death all over the place, you know. So I had nothing to no way to handle that and, being a kid, I was just 18.

Speaker 1 14:06

Yeah, yeah, so that really kind of changes how you think about things, doesn't it? Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 14:15

In fact, I went home. When I went home, I stopped over at my best friend's house and he says where have you been? Like he didn't know, like he just was screwing with me? Yeah, yeah, you're right, I didn't know.

Speaker 1 14:31

But so were there a lot of people, a lot of your friends. Did they get drafted as well, or was it just Just me and the group.

Speaker 2 14:45

Okay, a couple of guys in our little group signed up for it. One stayed stateside. I don't know what happened to the other one. Okay, as far as I know I can remember, I was the only one actually in combat out of that group.

Speaker 1 15:05

What was it like to come home after that?

Speaker 2 15:10

Surreal, you know, you think people are going to treat you well and we weren't treated very well, so we couldn't say stuff that we wanted to say because it wasn't polite or whatever. Right, you know, and that was hard. You have to deal with traumas like that. Yeah, you know, we made fun of it. We tried to and we tried to. Well, we tried to put ourselves out of that, you know, and I did. I went right back to work and then one of my best friends joined up, got in the state police and he was home. His dad was a builder. We're coming and going all the time with the job. Tommy would come home in the middle of the week and we'd go get drunk and do stuff. We look back on it, or I look back on it, and I think that was a lot of wasted time and he said why don't you join up? You know they're hiring now. So I did and everything. I got in and I spent my career in there.

Speaker 1 16:36

So talk to me a little bit about joining the state police. I know that the program is very difficult to get through. It's almost like going back, or it's actually, I think, worse in some ways than going back to.

Speaker 2 16:47

There's nothing I can compare to it.

Speaker 1 16:49

Yeah, my grandson.

Speaker 2 16:52

He's a good kid and strong, and he went through it good. I don't know if I could have the picture he had of it. I could have not the way he the picture he had of us. And I also told him when you get your badge, your mother's to pin that on you, right? So, and I didn't, he come up and gave me the badge. I said, no, it's your mom's job. Yeah, no, I want you to do it, so I'm fiddling around with it. I said come on, aaron, put it on, you must have been very proud.

Speaker 2 17:32

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 17:32

Yeah, so talk to me about your career with the state police. What do you remember about the training program and the decision that you made?

Combat Experience and Injury

Speaker 2 17:46

I didn't know I'd have to be pounded like we did. That was one of the toughest trainings I'd ever been in. Eric was telling that's my grandson, that's the cop now. He said that that's like the third most training in the nation. Michigan State Police.

Speaker 1 18:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:08

It's the best training you know.

Speaker 1 18:12

It's several months too, isn't it Months? I think it's like 16 weeks or something like that.

Speaker 2 18:18

Yeah, 17 weeks.

Speaker 1 18:20

Yeah, and so you made that decision. And was there any point during your training where you thought maybe you'd made the wrong decision? Mm-hmm, lots of times. Yeah, and so you made that decision. And was there any point during your training where you thought maybe you'd made the wrong decision?

Speaker 2 18:28

Mm-hmm Lots of times.

Speaker 1 18:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:31

Boxing was one and luckily I had enough wherewithal to do what I had to do and you know you don't want to hurt somebody because you're going to be working for it. And as it worked out, we were in alphabetic order we started 110 and graduated 51, and one didn't get off probation.

Speaker 1 18:57

Wow, so that's a pretty big failure rate.

Speaker 2 19:02

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 19:05

Did they still have the swim test?

Speaker 2 19:06

Oh yeah, Called it the death swim.

Speaker 1 19:09

Yeah, I understand that's very difficult.

Speaker 2 19:13

Well, it wasn't so bad for me because I loved to swim, but there was plenty of times that I was thinking what the hell am I doing here? You know, and where they had the academy there in East Lansing, at the old barracks yeah, I was 15 minutes and I was home and that played on me for made me think things through. Yeah, because I can leave here in a heartbeat and be out of here.

Speaker 1 19:44

Now. Did you go home on the weekends, though, or were you there the whole time?

Speaker 2 19:47

Not at the beginning. We stayed there for the whole thing and then it changed. We got to go home if we did good during that week, and it had to be everybody. If somebody was screwing off, you had to help them get out of it because you wanted to go home. So that was tough to come home.

Speaker 1 20:10

What do you think your favorite part about the initial training was? What did you really enjoy?

Speaker 2 20:15

I don't know if I enjoyed anything, because I'm not very smart and you get a lot of things that you think back on. How the hell did I get through that? And then we had a year of probation. They don't have that now, do they? No, we had a year of probation, so we rode with somebody for a year.

Speaker 1 20:42

Yeah, what was your first duty for the state police? Where were you at?

Speaker 2 20:48

Detroit, 7 Mountain, grand River, okay, the old Redford Post. Then I told the post commander something I probably shouldn't have said to him. And next thing I know it was on a holiday. And next thing I know I'm being transferred to Ypsilanti. That's where she was born, ypsi's Hospital. But I got out of Detroit just by calling him. I said some things I probably wouldn't have said, you know, I mean, he was a bastard.

Speaker 1 21:24

That's a tough post anyway, the Redford post, isn't it?

Speaker 2 21:27

Yeah, because we had so many townships around there at that time. Yeah, In fact, they pheasant hunted. If you headed west towards Northville, they had hay fields that had pheasants in them. You could hunt pheasants there. That's the last place I hunted pheasants in them. You could hunt pheasants there. That's the last place I hunted pheasants in this state Was there?

Speaker 1 21:53

Yeah, it's still pretty rural. It was pretty rural back then.

Speaker 2 22:01

One of the old-timers that was there said you could shoot a rifle and it would hit Plymouth State Home and Training before we'd get out of the post. I mean it was, it's just the way they talked about it.

Speaker 1 22:15

So how was the IPSI post for you?

Speaker 2 22:16

Riot. I enjoyed that every minute of it. We were not every minute. We were involved in a couple shootings and things like that. It was neat. You knew what police work was, and if you didn't, you learned fast. That's the thing.

Speaker 1 22:39

So when you were there in Ypsilanti, did they have the motorcycle club there? There's a clubhouse there now, but there's a post there, right that.

Speaker 2 22:49

But they moved out, I think. Okay, it used to be in downtown Ypsilanti, right across from the bank. There's a drive. Yeah, that Harlan's groceries was on the other side of the post and then the post was there we had, we were all jammed in. It was. You know, that was the biggest post in the state at that time. Well, there was 10 or 12 detectives that worked out of the airport.

Speaker 1 23:16

Yeah and so what you do, were you still patrolling at this point?

Speaker 2 23:21

Yeah.

Speaker 1 23:23

What do you recall? Maybe one of the things that you remember most about being an Ipsy. Is there anything in particular?

Speaker 2 23:30

Well, one thing my wife come home or I come home from work and she was in the room crying. I said what's wrong? She says I had a lady banging into me with a cart when I was checking out. I said why don't you turn around and belt her? Oh, I'm not that kind of you know. So that one got to me and she said I want out of here. I put a letter in and it was a while a year or two I think before I got out of there, and that was when my father died. Mary was still alive, but my father died, and he's the one we. He was, I don't know, he was my rock. If I needed something I'd always ask him. Good man.

Speaker 1 24:20

That must have been very hard for you.

Speaker 2 24:21

It was.

Speaker 1 24:25

So when you left Ypsilanti, where did you go from there?

Speaker 2 24:29

Lansing.

Speaker 1 24:29

Okay.

Speaker 2 24:31

I worked out of the Lansing Post and then I was there for a year or two I don't know, I can't remember. And next thing I know well, I worked narcotics. So I was all over the state. We were working at different post areas. We worked at both. We did what they called. I can't think what they called it, but we'd work. There would be a say PD, weberville had a PD and they couldn't do anything manpower-wise, so we'd have to get in there and do it for them.

Speaker 1 25:09

Yeah, they had the teams right Right.

Speaker 2 25:11

That was the start of the teams. We had narcotics teams and investigative teams and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 25:19

Yeah, they had sweat down by Battle Creek and they had magnet up here, Sweat down by Battle Creek and they had Magnet up here and up in Ipsy it was Huron area undercover.

Speaker 2 25:30

I forgot what it was. It was a word that we made words out of that.

Speaker 1 25:35

I can't think what it was they all had an acronym that made a word.

Speaker 2 25:38

I remember that but and that's where we retired we stayed there, and I think Jenny was born in Lansing when we were stationed there, so both the kids were with me when we went to Alpena. Okay, that's the post I worked out until I retired. Now you have two children, then Two girls.

Speaker 1 26:05

Okay, well, well, tell me about your daughters. I know one of them's standing here, so you got to be nice, but uh.

Speaker 2 26:12

They're good kids, yeah, they um Couldn't do anything wrong, though, because every time they'd do something wrong I'd catch them or I'd be told by one of the guys. I saw your daughter here the other day, so they couldn't have freedom really could you? No.

Speaker 1 26:34

It's like being a minister's child, I think. Yes, same sort of thing, yeah it could be. Yeah, and so when did you retire from the state police?

Speaker 2 26:47

You remember 97. Was it 97.?

Speaker 1 26:50

Okay, and what did you do after retirement? Because you were still a pretty young guy in 97.

Speaker 2 26:55

Well, I got a job. I had a son-in-law and I that would. We started a little business of taking people up in the mountains on horseback. That was one thing, and then that didn't work out very well. So Bailiff, huh, bailiff, oh yeah, the sheriff wanted some help. So he asked me if I'd be a bailiff. I said only if I can get October off, and he let me get off. And then I got a job with probation, worked for a judge in Ocona County. Kids that were on, you know bad kids. I'd check on them and talk to them and try to make them work and get getting out of this stuff, but a lot of them the parents were the reason the kids were so scrappy. Right, I never saw that in my other jobs before really. I mean, I knew it happened but I never saw it like I did there.

Speaker 1 27:55

You think you were able to help some of those kids.

Joining the Michigan State Police

Speaker 2 27:57

I tried. Yeah, you know, I had a kid in a dugout. This was over in Barton City. There's a dugout in a field and he was down in there. When I saw him, he was with a girl down in there and I said what are you doing with her in here?

Speaker 2 28:41

None of your business, oh really. So I grabbed ahold of him and I think that was the start of his change in life, because I was going to peel him. But he, you know, treat him to being nice. What are you in there for? You weren't talking baseball, were you? You know it was like that, but I did that for quite a few years, I'd say 10 years or more. You were also a fireman.

Speaker 1 29:11

Oh, you were a firefighter too.

Speaker 2 29:15

You name it, I did it.

Speaker 1 29:16

Yeah, yeah, was that local then.

Speaker 2 29:21

Yeah, sanborn Township, it was Asinik. It's 10 miles south of Alpena, a little bird called Asinik, and that was Sanborn Township. That's where our fire department was right at that intersection of 23 and Nicholson Hill. Okay, I didn't drive the fire truck only a couple of times because I was so far out Right, but I could get to the fire and get it sized up by the time the fire truck got there. Then we got another fire truck and then we got a tanker. So it's really a good. I think it's the best in the state, because when we had training, everybody showed up. We didn't get paid for training or anything Right, we did later, but we didn't get paid for training or anything Right, we did later but we didn't back then. So we did that. We were good. We saved a lot of buildings. I had one of the troops in Alpena say well, I see you saved another basement.

Speaker 1 30:27

I didn't think cops and firemen got along, so how did you work that out?

Speaker 2 30:31

I was always taking stuff, crap from them, especially the firemen or the cops when I was a fireman. Yeah, just tell them to shut up and leave me alone or whatever I don't remember just what happened, but I love some of those guys. You know one of them and I were involved in a shooting and, uh, you know you get kind of tight with somebody when you're throwing light at each other can you tell me about that, about the shooting.

Speaker 1 31:06

What do you recall about that?

Speaker 2 31:10

How God protected me. I should have been dead. I was running up when he pulled the gun out. He had a sawed-off shotgun. I thought I'm done here. I knew it and I started running back towards the car. I think when he fired I had unburned burn powder in my eyes.

Speaker 1 31:31

that's how close I was other than that you weren't injured, though no well he was yeah, we only that one, and we had one.

Speaker 2 31:47

I think we had one in Alpena a shooting, but it wasn't like that my shooting. Oh, the Ipsy. We had a shooting in Ipsy too.

Speaker 1 32:00

What do you remember about that one?

Speaker 2 32:05

God won, he lost Obviously.

Speaker 1 32:09

At the end of the day that's kind of what matters, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 32:13

Well, I was sleeping on the couch because my wife was having her. Oh, they were sleeping on the couch and my wife never, ever, ever slept in. She was always up early. And I went into the refrigerator and got some orange juice and some vodka and I got plastered. Because that's the first time since Vietnam that anybody got hurt because of me, I'll be nice and call it hurt.

Speaker 1 32:45

That's tough, as a veteran and even as a police officer, to kind of reconcile, that, isn't it?

Speaker 2 32:53

You always wonder if he did right, especially when he went down.

Speaker 2 32:58

I thought, oh boy, this is going to be some reports here. But luckily, you know, we see there were four of us. Two came on the car, the bad guy car, and then two of them started running, or one did. Name was Hill. He ran down and our guys chased after him and caught him. He didn't know there were two up above.

Speaker 2 33:23

It was down on the freeway back up from the edge of the where it was all chained from the fence, and when we got there I had a recruit and we got there and he was shooting. I said give me the gun. And I got it from him. And then I dropped one on him and told him hello, got it from him. And then I dropped one on him and said told him hello, you know, that one, that one, that one didn't hit home because he we found out later that the guns he had on him, one was taken from a Pittsburgh police officer that was killed in the line of duty and the other was a sawed-off shotgun. That was Oklahoma State Police. So he killed at least two other people that we could trace back that were him from him.

Speaker 1 34:17

Definitely a bad guy.

Speaker 2 34:18

Oh yeah, I didn't mind that at all. You know some of it. When you're involved in a shooting, it kind of you wonder if you're hoping it's right. You don't want to be doing anything wrong like that, where this was no doubt about it, this one.

Speaker 1 34:35

Pretty cut and dry. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's always that little voice in the back of your head that makes you wonder if you did the right thing or not.

Speaker 2 34:44

Yeah, but Could be.

Speaker 1 34:47

Yeah, because he was no good. Yeah, so you. It sounds like you did a lot of different things. How did you end up here in Harrison?

Speaker 2 34:58

My wife wanted to be by for the kids Wanted to be by a lake and one of the prettiest lakes in the state is Hubbard Lake. But that wasn't what she wanted. She wanted something away from that, something where I would be home most of the time going when we were dating and stuff. I was always off doing something else and she got tired of that, wouldn't you say. And so we got here and we had a farm, we had farm animals and stuff and had to give all that up for this.

Speaker 1 35:39

Well, how did you meet your wife?

Speaker 2 35:42

That's kind of a funny story really.

Speaker 1 35:44

Oh, I gotta hear this.

Speaker 2 35:46

We were the troops and I had a. I can't think of the name of the Italian restaurant in Lansing Emil's Emil's.

Speaker 1 35:57

Yeah, right on Michigan Ave there.

Speaker 2 35:59

Yeah, it was on Michigan.

Speaker 1 36:00

Emil's Emil's West. Yeah, emil's yep.

Police Career and Memorable Incidents

Speaker 2 36:05

One of the guys in my recruit school. We were still in recruit school, well, actually we were in retread school and he set it up for a bunch of girls from the bank to come to that and I was with all these girls and stuff and we're all milling around looking for mates. I guess, yeah, these girls and stuff and we're all milling around looking for mates. I guess, yeah, and uh, I think it was a while later I went to the, went to a party. Well, I met her at this, at emails, and uh, I talked to her on the phone and and I said, do you want to go out? She said yes, and when I got there to pick her up it wasn't her. I had the names mixed up.

Speaker 1 36:54

Oh no.

Speaker 2 36:56

Well, we dated for a little while and finally that girl wanted to become a stewardess. And so my wife, well, mary, came up and said you want to go see a movie with me? I'll pay for it. I said well, how do you turn that down, right? So I did and didn't, and we met.

Speaker 1 37:20

But Mary was the girl you meant to call at first, right, but you called the wrong girl. Yeah, so you just dated her anyway. Yeah, why not? She's a girl. Yeah, so you just dated her.

Speaker 2 37:28

Anyway. Yeah, why not? She's a girl. Yeah, yeah, why not? I'm thinking they all got the same parts.

Speaker 1 37:35

Well, mostly yes.

Speaker 2 37:39

That was how I met her.

Speaker 1 37:40

Uh-huh. So she took you out on a date. Yeah, okay, and then it was.

Speaker 2 37:46

I never dated after that.

Speaker 1 37:47

Yeah, did you know pretty early on that you wanted to marry her, or did it take a little while?

Speaker 2 37:55

I don't know. We were building a place over in Island Lake off of Meredith. Are you familiar with that? I am not 18, it's north of Claire, her, gladwin. Okay, we met there and what was I talking about? You were talking about you and your dad building the house. Oh yeah, and she helped. I was out doing hunting with my dogs and something, and she's back home or back at our place, uh-huh. And she my dad said when we were getting ready to wash it up, because he dug this big hole for the well and I should have been helping him, but I didn't. I was out bird hunting, which I like to do, and so I I don't know Dad says this is your girl, you've got to marry this girl. I said why do you say that? I was free and dating lots of people at the time.

Speaker 1 39:00

Even girls you didn't mean to date.

Speaker 2 39:02

Well, that one was for sure that, Because when I walked into her house I knocked on the door. She lived in an apartment in East Lansing. I knocked on the door and she let me in and I'm looking around. I didn't want to be stupid and say, because I thought her name was Mary Right, and I knew that, but I didn't know who she was. And when I went to pick her up, Mary's Mary wasn't there yeah. I'm trying to figure out. How am I gonna get out of this way? So your dad?

Speaker 2 39:37

figured out that Mary was the girl for you yep uh-huh because she worked all day digging up that hole to put that wellhead in there.

Speaker 1 39:49

So did you take your dad's advice, or did you wait a little while?

Speaker 2 39:52

Nope, Told my dad's advice and we started dating more and more each. I mean, she was still working in Lansing, I was in Ipsy, so on my days off I'd go get her and we'd go dance. You know whatever we wanted to do, and that worked out pretty well. I guess, go get her and we'd go dance you know, whatever we wanted to do, and that worked out pretty well, I guess.

Speaker 1 40:12

Yeah, how long were you married?

Speaker 2 40:14

Oh man, 45 years 45 years. She was dead right here in the floor, the living room. She died right in here.

Speaker 1 40:26

What happened? I don't know. I think it was a heart attack, okay, she died right in here. What happened? I don't know. I think it was a heart attack, okay, and how long ago was that? 21. Oh, okay, so not too long ago. Yeah, she had just celebrated her birthday and then, a few days later, she was gone.

Speaker 2 40:45

Okay, all right, there's something good out of everything bad. I got to see my daughter that I don't hardly ever see Erin's close to home, but Jennifer isn't. She's out in Utah, yeah, or Idaho, whatever one. She was at Idaho first. She's a PA.

Speaker 1 41:08

Physician's assistant.

Speaker 2 41:12

When she worked for the first doctor after school she did a lot of she was doing. When they cut them off, they did that. What's it called the fat people?

Speaker 1 41:28

The bariatric surgery. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 41:33

So she got that. I think I lost my train of thought.

Speaker 1 41:39

We were talking about her living out in Idaho and being a yeah, and she was able to come home.

Speaker 2 41:44

Yeah, I got to see her when I worked out there. I saw her all the time. She'd make the food for us up in the mountains and stuff. That was kind of neat and that fell on deaf ears so it was tough. It was a tough one.

Speaker 1 42:04

Yeah, now you have grandchildren too, right?

Speaker 2 42:07

Almost great-grandchildren. Yeah, that's what I heard. So how many grandchildren do you have? Grandchildren too, right? Almost great-grandchildren?

Speaker 1 42:09

Yeah, that's what I heard. So how many grandchildren do you have?

Speaker 2 42:13

Seven.

Speaker 1 42:14

And three step. Oh okay, that's a big family, and then you have a great-grandchild on the way.

Speaker 2 42:23

Born in August.

Speaker 1 42:25

Okay. Do we know if it's a boy or a girl Boy? Oh, maybe another hunter in the family.

Speaker 2 42:33

Maybe Her husband. I got him a shotgun a while back because he's been helping with me with here and stuff, and her too. Everything she wants, I try to give it to him, and that makes things a lot easier for me yeah, it's always good to have some help yeah, and like Jim's, I think he was mowing I'm. I just had surgery a couple weeks ago. I know what's it called postrate and the shaved one and I'm still recuperating, really I guess, from that.

Speaker 1 43:17

Yeah, so that wasn't fun no, no, if it was fun, everyone would do it. It's definitely not fun no not at all.

Speaker 2 43:29

Hardest thing I ever had to go through.

Speaker 1 43:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2 43:32

You know, when I got wounded, that wasn't no very big thing. Anyway, I got cold milk, something I hadn't had in months.

Speaker 1 43:47

For people who never served in the military. It's funny that you mentioned cold milk, because for me that was like when I could get cold milk, especially cold chocolate milk. It was a big deal, because you just don't get it in the field Everything's we used to get food brought out in these things called mermite cans. Yeah.

Family Life and Later Career

Speaker 2 44:06

It would be like chicken and some mashed potatoes and gravy, and they would always have little cartons of milk when they did that, which was maybe three times in my times in the field. Well, when I went to the hospital and got walking, I walked into the mess hall. Cold milk, great big ball at the bottom of this rubber hose.

Speaker 1 44:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:33

Filled up my coffee cup with milk and all the other stuff in there and there was some Oriental Vietnamese washing dishes and cleaning up and stuff. I wasn't very pleasant towards those kind of people because I'd been hurt by him and I saw him kill people. I know that that's war. That's what the war is about, I guess, and I didn't like that at all. But I was drinking the milk and I'd get another glass or a cup that brown wooden trays Remember them? I do, and the cup was for coffee but I drank milk and I couldn't even eat because I drank so much milk and my stomach had shrunk. Somebody said they thought that's what had happened because it came up.

Speaker 1 45:23

Yeah, if you haven't had that kind of food in a long time, it'll definitely.

Speaker 2 45:29

I don't know if you're familiar with C-rations, but that's what we ate when we were in the field. It's the crappiest stuff you ever did see, and some of it was dated in 42.

Speaker 1 45:40

Yeah, world War II stuff right, yeah yeah. When I came into the military, the C-rations were going away and they had the MREs, the meals, ready to eat in the big plastic bags, which, by the way, were probably not much better oh yeah, anything is better than those C-rations. Yeah, they were awful now, did those have cigarettes in them?

Speaker 2 46:06

yeah, and guys would light them and they were gone.

Speaker 1 46:11

That's because they were old.

Speaker 2 46:13

Yeah, they were very dry. I would say that's what made them burn so fast. I didn't smoke, so it didn't matter to me, right.

Speaker 1 46:25

What kind of food for anyone listening? What kind of food would be in a C-Ration?

Speaker 2 46:29

Well, they had some specialty things. One was spaghetti. That was probably the best. Then we had something with lima beans in it. Well, there's three things I don't eat. Lima beans is one of them. But you had to eat them, right, otherwise you didn't get anything. But you had to eat them, otherwise you didn't get anything. And there was something, oh, pork and beans.

Speaker 2 46:54

that was another one this all came in cans right it had a little P you know what a P38 is and we'd open them with that, bend it up and use that for a handle. And then we'd take the C4 that you had in the mines what do they call them? Oh, the claymore, claymore. Yeah, we'd pick the glue or the C4 out of that, light it and then heat our C rations. And I remember one time we had put them out at night because we always put those out at night and the facing out and there was nothing, nothing to do, and their guys were popping Seymour, claymores. You know, we were in a, somebody was checking us to see how many there was of us, and so we're trying to kill him with claymores Claymore mines yeah.

Speaker 2 47:57

And you hear pop, because we used all the C4 for lighting our meals.

Speaker 1 48:05

Well, maybe you scared him to death.

Speaker 2 48:07

Well, most of the time they wouldn't come in, yeah, but then once in a while there'd be a fully intact claymore that would make it rumble the ground, but I remember the times when it would just bang. You're thinking where? The hell did that come from, I mean in my early days there, afterwards it was you were used to all that stuff.

Speaker 1 48:33

Did you find it was kind of amazing what you get used to yes, you know compared to like when you first get there and by the time you leave it's.

Speaker 2 48:42

We went 68 days without changing uniforms, 68 days that I'll never forget. And I was a radio operator, so a lot of times I'm writing on my pants or my you know, because in the rain you can't use paper for coordinates and things. So you'd use, you know, write on my clothes and the goose or the bad guys would smell us. They had to have smelled us, I mean, we were awful.

Speaker 1 49:17

Yeah, but you all stunk. So I mean no one, really no we didn't know it. You didn't know it, you were nose blind at that point. Yeah, that's a long time, but it's hot and sweaty. Oh yeah, in the jungle 68 days.

Speaker 2 49:29

I'll never forget that, even with my loss of memory I can remember that.

Speaker 1 49:35

So were you on patrol for that whole 68 days then.

Speaker 2 49:42

I didn't go on patrol much because I had the radio. There was a time or two that I had to go. The boss said you have to go out once in a while. That was okay. I didn't have any problem in it. I never did any leading away or anything like that. We had guys that did that.

Speaker 1 50:00

Well, you don't want to put your radio operator out front anyway.

Speaker 2 50:03

Well, when I went to basic and then I got into AIT, I walked into the classroom and there was a big nine on the chalkboard. Nine, and it was a few days we were in there and finally somebody said hey, sarge, what's that nine for? It took you guys long enough to ask. He says that's how long you're going to be living when you get in a firefight. It's nine minutes, wow. So we kind of buckled down after that and didn't screw off. We wanted to get our training in. So we knew what we were getting into. And the main thing that was because of. I mean, it just wasn't. We didn't have the opportunity to change clothes, right, we didn't carry extra clothes, we carried food, if we carried anything. Extra Water was another thing. The mom used to send Kool-Aid that's by itself, yeah. And then you shake it up in your canteen and I mean it tasted like shit anyway.

Speaker 1 51:13

But this tasted like cherry shit, right, or grape shit, or whatever flavor it was Whatever it was.

Speaker 2 51:19

yeah, it was awful.

Speaker 1 51:21

Yeah, I don't know what they do to the water in war, but it's yeah, it's never.

Speaker 2 51:25

Well, we used to get these bladders, probably as big as this table, with little spigots yeah, like three little spigots on the side, and that water tasted just as what that rubber looked like. It must have tasted like that. Well, it did, because finally, you know, you had to drink it. They'd bring that, a helicopter could bring that in, set it down and we'd all get our water and then away it'd go.

Speaker 1 51:51

Yeah, yeah, and they'd sit out in the sun and get all nice and warm.

Speaker 2 51:57

They made it nice for us, yeah.

Speaker 1 52:00

Yeah, absolutely. Well, anything else about your time in the military you want to talk about, or anything else that comes to mind that you'd like to share?

Speaker 2 52:12

I don't know you think of anything?

Speaker 1 52:13

I don't think so Okay, well, for anyone listening to this in the future, what message would you like to leave for people?

Speaker 2 52:27

Probably that I love them.

Speaker 1 52:32

All right, all right, bill. Well, thanks for spending an afternoon with me here. I appreciate it.