Growing Up Midwest, Leading America’s Soldiers (Jim Vetter)

A snowy drive, a borrowed Camaro, and a Christmas party recruiter set everything in motion. From a one-stoplight town in Wisconsin to Fort Knox, Jim Vetter charted an unlikely path: split-option enlistment, tank crew at 18, and a meteoric rise to drill sergeant and commandant. We walk through the first shock at the bus, the carefully engineered stress of reception, and the hard switch that forges civilians into soldiers. Jim shares the moments that stick—the grenade that hit the pit, a rifle flagged on the line, and the first time he stood in front of a formation as “the guy” and felt the purpose click into place.

Mentorship runs like a spine through his story. A first sergeant who mapped out every school and gate. Peers who pushed. Students who grew. Jim explains why rapid promotion isn’t luck; it’s readiness meeting need, with paperwork and performance to match. He later reclassed to support training missions in artillery and infantry and then moved into the Inspector General’s office, becoming the eyes, ears, and conscience of a two-star across seven states. Different uniforms, same mission: protect standards, grow people, and keep leaders out of ethical traps.

When the uniform came off in 2002, the systems stayed. Jim brought military-grade playbooks to General Motors plants, keeping production steady through water-main breaks and supply snags. He built partnerships with unions during the 2008 downturn, led COO turnarounds that pruned bad business and rebuilt teams, and eventually launched his own company before fully retiring to focus on health, grandkids, and a memoir his family has been waiting to read. The throughline is clear: say yes to challenge, find mentors, do the hard schools, and measure leadership by the lives you lift. If this journey resonates, follow the show, share it with a veteran or mentor who shaped you, and leave a review with the lesson you’ll carry forward.

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening And Early Years In Wisconsin
• 4:40 Moving States And Childhood Memories
• 7:50 High School Sports And Joining Up Early
• 11:45 Basic Training Shock At Fort Knox
• 16:05 Split Option AIT And Tank School
• 19:35 Fast Promotions And Finding Mentors
• 24:41 Becoming A Drill Sergeant
• 30:06 Hell Weeks, Training Rhythm, And Culture Shift
• 34:56 Transformations, Attrition, And Standards
• 39:06 First Time On The Trail And War Stories
• 45:16 Gas Chamber, Grenades, And Range Safety
• 49:46 Teaching The Academy And Leadership Roles
• 53:46 Desert Storm Window And Commandant Duty
• 57:06 Reclass To Artillery And Infantry
• 1:00:36 Inspector General Years And Oversight
• 1:05:06 Family, Marriage, And Longevity

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 1:01

Today is Monday, October 20th, 2025. We're talking with Jim Vetter, who served the United States Army. So good morning, Jim. Good morning. Thanks for coming out early on a Monday morning to talk with us.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11

It was a beautiful drive.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13

Well, yes. It's fall in Michigan. I mean, you can't I guess you could complain, but no one would listen anyway. Right. Right. So we'll get started. We'll start out very simple. When and where were you born?

SPEAKER_00: 1:23

So I was born in uh uh Wisconsin, uh New London, Wisconsin, uh 1965, February 13th.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31

All right. And so did you grow up in Wisconsin then?

SPEAKER_00: 1:34

I did, yeah. Okay. Grew up, uh, graduated high school, uh, lived there till I was probably in my mid-20s, and uh ended up coming up well, a little later than that, I guess. Uh came out here into Michigan uh in 2002. 2000. Okay. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:57

Um all right. Well, let's uh let's talk a little bit about growing up. Did you have uh brothers and sisters or your only child? I did. I had an older brother and a younger sister. Okay. So I was the middle child. Yes, as was I. So we could probably compare some stories about that too.

SPEAKER_00: 2:12

Talk to me about growing up. What was it like? Uh small town. Uh we had one stoplight, so it was small. Uh-huh. Um, just about everybody knew everybody else. And uh, you know, we were like everybody else in that period that you know, we'd go out and when the lights came on the at night, the streetlights came on, we we'd have to go home. And otherwise we played outside all the time with our friends. Uh, we walked to school. Uh school was not close. You know, even now as I drive back there and look at um, you know, where I went to school, it was like, wow, you know, that's a long walk for a kindergartner.

SPEAKER_01: 2:53

You're doing that like all four seasons, right?

SPEAKER_00: 2:55

Right, right, yeah. I remember uh having a metal um lunchbox and just playing with that in the snowbank as I walked home, you know, and just kind of uh run it like a snowmobile or something, yeah, having that imagination.

SPEAKER_01: 3:08

Yeah, yeah. Was this so I gotta ask, was this like a Batman lunchbox? Was it did it have something on it?

SPEAKER_00: 3:14

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It was I forget what was on it, but it was probably something different every year because it because I probably rusted them out from running them on the snow banks, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 3:22

Right, right. And did you have like the old thermos, the ones that were like like glass lined?

SPEAKER_00: 3:26

Yep, and they were in inside there, and yeah, so I had everything I needed for the day, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 3:30

I can't tell you how many of those things I broke.

SPEAKER_00: 3:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 3:34

I was so happy when they came out with those plastic ones. Yep. Yeah, so really like the same school system, like kind of the same friends the whole time?

SPEAKER_00: 3:42

No, so we we moved a bit. Um, so we ended up um in kindergarten down in in Wywiga, Wisconsin. Um, and that's an Indian name, so here we rest. Okay. So we born in that area and then uh kindergarten there, moved to Florida, uh, Lakeland, Florida, did uh first grade and just half of second grade, and then moved back to Fremont, Wisconsin, and uh did uh the other half of second grade there and then finally moved to Wopaca where we finished out high school and everything right in that area.

SPEAKER_01: 4:23

Now, did you move a lot because of work?

SPEAKER_00: 4:26

Yeah, my dad's work. Uh-huh. Yeah. So he was, you know, the factory that he was working at went under, so he had to find another job and found something in Florida. Uh we have aunt and uncle down there, so it worked out well. You know, we had cousins to play with.

SPEAKER_01: 4:40

Yeah. So you got to know your your uh extended family a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: 4:44

Yep. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01: 4:45

It was a good time. Oh, that's great. That's better than moving to Florida and not knowing anybody, right?

SPEAKER_00: 4:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 4:50

Yeah. So how was it for you to bounce around a little bit like that?

SPEAKER_00: 4:55

Probably prepared me for the my life, yeah. Right. So it it wasn't bad. You know, it was we we were still young, we were making friends everywhere we went, and uh it was it was kind of cool to see the different areas. Uh Florida, I remember just uh as a kid, always outside playing, uh running, doing things. They have a moss there that has uh jiggers, I think, in it, and you know, we'd go out and play in the trees and come home just itching and scratching, and or you know, I'd be running and turn around and slam right into a tree or something like that. So always something fun, right? Silly things as a kid, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:37

Yeah. Now, did you have any uh interests in in high school? Did you play sports? Were you part of clubs? What'd you do in high school?

SPEAKER_00: 5:43

So my um sophomore year I played every sport. Uh-huh. Um so I played football, I played uh I didn't do baseball. Um played soccer, did did just tried everything one year. Yeah. And said, okay, I d I've done that. You know, basketball, uh, I lettered in track that year, you know. So it was it was a good year. I didn't work very hard at track, I just could get out there and run. Right. You know, which was good for my military career.

SPEAKER_01: 6:14

Yeah, for anybody who's never been in the military, you do a lot of running. Yeah. It like seems to be a thing.

SPEAKER_00: 6:19

Yeah, for some reason.

SPEAKER_01: 6:21

Well, that's that's awesome. So you uh you uh get through school and um you did you graduate from high school in m in Wisconsin then?

SPEAKER_00: 6:30

Yes. So what I did is I joined the Army in between my junior and senior year of high school. Okay. Uh went in on delayed entry program, and uh so I went and did basic training between the junior and high junior and senior year. After I kept graduated from basic training, I came back home and finished high school and then went to my AIT or my advanced training.

SPEAKER_01: 6:55

So I'm I gotta ask, uh you know, I know a lot of uh a lot of people uh in in like the National Guard have done that as well. What did that change your perspective like between your junior and senior year going to basic training and then coming back and finishing out your senior year? Were you were you kind of a different person or was it just uh it was just something you did?

SPEAKER_00: 7:15

No, I think I was different. I definitely um gave me more uh responsibility and you know, a reason for what I was doing, you know. Um it's an interesting story on how I got to join up that early because you know my parents had to sign for it and everything. But my stepfather was in uh the National Guard and or Army Reserve, sorry, and he was an E6 uh in the community communications. We went to one of his Christmas parties, and uh long story to get there, uh my car was kind of a hoopty. Uh so he borrowed me his Camaro. Uh-huh. It was a snowstorm, and my sister and I were gonna be a little later than them. So my mom and him went to this Christmas party. Um we came a little bit later, and on the way, we ended up spinning out with his Camaro, took it up a hill, into the ditch, up a hill, and put it, I put it in park, and we're just sitting there looking at each other. I go and uh I put it in reverse, go back out the same way I came in, get out of the car, look around the car, it didn't damage the car at all.

SPEAKER_01: 8:27

So you're a lucky, lucky man.

SPEAKER_00: 8:29

Yes, yeah, I'd have been dead on that one. So we go to the we go to the uh Christmas party and we say we're never gonna tell anybody this story, you know. So um go to the Christmas party, and I get there and I just start looking around and it's like, man, this is what I want to do. Um, you know, there is equipment and the people and the everything else. So I searched out a recruiter right away at this Christmas party, and it's like, I need to talk to you. And my parents, you know, stepfather and my mother saw me over at the recruiter and they came over to try to rescue me, and uh, it was too late. We were I was in, you know. So it took a little convincing to get them to sign the paper to say, yes, I could go. I was probably 15 and a half at that time. I couldn't sign up until I was 16. Um, but you know, they signed and said yes, I could do it, and you know, it was probably the best decision I'm I made in my life.

SPEAKER_01: 9:28

So you were pretty young when you went to basic training then. Yeah, yeah. Younger than most.

SPEAKER_00: 9:32

Very young, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:33

Talk to me about that experience. It was interesting, you know, and uh coming from a small town, you know, we it was just uh and then going to basic training was just such a diverse group of people that you know I hadn't met before, the you know, difference in personalities or the difference in cultures and things like that. So that was interesting to uh go to basic training at that young, you know. Um it was interesting to you know be part of a group and you know, have people listen to you and you know, take take orders from you. You know, I became uh squad leader and you know it was it was pretty cool at that age to you know manage people that were older than me.

SPEAKER_02: 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:20

Yeah. And it it's funny because I I think you know, if I look back on basic training, um age mattered if the guy was like 40 years old and going through boot camp, right? Because they were like the old man, but when you were it didn't matter how young you were. No you you learned chain of command and you learned uh leadership and and all the followership and all those things.

SPEAKER_00: 10:41

Yeah, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 10:43

Yeah. What was the experience like when you first got off the bus though?

SPEAKER_00: 10:47

Um so that was an interesting it was you know, so I went to the reception station uh first, uh, went to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training, uh, went to the uh reception station and uh they were very nice there. Nice drill sergeants. And they uh you know took us to the different places, got us our uniforms, you know, got us set up in these old World War II barracks. So I was a little nervous about what we're gonna get into. Right. You know, is this what it's really gonna be like? And and uh so it was I think it was two or three days at the reception station, and they were just as nice as could be, you know. Hey, come on over here, here, let's have dinner, you know. It was so you know, they were setting us up for something, you know. Oh yeah. So then uh the day we jump on the bus to go over to our actual basic training site, um they were there along with every drill sergeant in Fort Knox that wasn't busy. Uh-huh. And it just became, you know, Hell Week started. Right. You know, they get you on the bus, uh, got you off the bus. And like I said, I think they had every drill sergeant that wasn't busy there to help you.

SPEAKER_01: 12:01

To welcome you aboard. Right. That's funny how they like lull you into that false sense of, oh, this is gonna be okay, and then yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, I can do this. And then it's like, whoa, what'd I get into? Right. Yeah. I think uh most people have like that second thought, like for at least a few seconds when they when they first start getting yelled at.

SPEAKER_00: 12:23

Yeah, yeah. And and you can't do anything right, you know. Right. You can't get off the bus fast enough, you can't get your duffel bag quick enough, you know, and it's there's not the aisles aren't big enough on the bus.

SPEAKER_01: 12:35

Right. It's not till year years later where you realize, oh, that was all by design. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00: 12:41

When I became a drill start and then I realized, oh that's why they do this. Here's the plan.

SPEAKER_01: 12:46

Right. There's always that one or two guys that figures it out in basic, but most of us were like, yeah, chasing our tails. Yeah. Yeah. So you uh you go to basic, uh, you come back home, you do your senior year at high school. Yeah. Uh and then did you did you go back to Fort Knox for AIT?

SPEAKER_00: 13:05

Yeah. Yeah. Because um I was I went in as a tanker, uh-huh, our armor crewman, and it's a one-station unit training normally. So you go in and you do your basic training and your AIT at the same time. Um, but with the delayed program and the split split option that I did, I ended up um you know going back this the second time and getting normally what would happen is you'd be put into a unit that's already going.

SPEAKER_01: 13:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 13:33

And uh what uh happened in this one, there were so many split options coming back, they put us all together. So it was kind of nice. Everybody was brand new back at Fort Knox again. Uh-huh. Uh at this point I was uh I was an E2, so I got some rank in there, so that was kind of cool. Yeah. Um and again, the drill sergeants weren't as harsh as the basic training phase, but they were still, you know, pretty like basic training light. Yeah, basic training light. Yeah, they uh still uh you know getting us back into the uh the spirit of things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:10

What's funny because I was gonna ask you that. Like when you uh when they do the you know the the group goes through all together, it would be really tough to come back and join a group that got in basic training together because they've formed all these relationships, but it sounds like they really did you guys a solid. Yeah, it was a good good opportunity there for us to uh you know start start fresh. Now how long was uh AIT for you?

SPEAKER_00: 14:32

So eight eight weeks. Okay. So it was eight weeks. Uh it was actually a fun period of time because you know, at uh you know, 17, 18 shooting tanks and driving tanks and doing all that stuff was pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_01: 14:47

Yeah, you're not gonna get that working at flipping burgers somewhere, are you? I'm always amazed, uh, you know, yeah, because I went in fairly young myself, but I'm always amazed looking back at the amount of responsibility that we give to very young people. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 15:03

When you think about special like pilots, you know, at 2022, they're flying these multi-billion dollar machines, and it's like, wow, you know. Right, right. And I'm sure that tank was too, but you know, we're not gonna crash land a tank.

SPEAKER_01: 15:17

No, and if you do, there's a big problem. So uh once you got through AIT, uh where did you go from there?

SPEAKER_00: 15:27

So I went to my unit. I was in 84th division. Um, it was a training unit. Um, because when I joined up, uh the recruiter asked me if I wanted to be a drill sergeant. And I thought that sounded like a great time. I don't even didn't even know what a drill sergeant really was, other than seeing them on TV and movies, you know. And it looks cool in the movies. Yeah, that's what I thought. So, you know, so I had to be a tanker first, um, and then went into the drill drill sergeant program. So I got back. Um, the one thing with uh drill sergeant program is they needed drill sergeants bad. So they were promoting people fairly fast. Um, so I had to be an E4 to get signed up for the drill sergeant program. So I caught I got that rank rather quick when I got back. Um the second part of that was uh when the class started, I had to be an E5. So I picked up E5 sergeant fairly quick.

SPEAKER_01: 16:24

So you're a young sergeant, though. I was, yeah, very young.

SPEAKER_00: 16:27

Yeah. And uh, you know, but I'd also taken the heat of my first sergeant. My first sergeant did a fantastic job when I got back to the unit. He uh laid out a path for me on how to do all these things. So I had all my schooling completed as quick as I could, you know, at a young age. So when it came to E5, I had everything I needed to get promoted. Right. And uh so then because the drill sergeant needed drill sergeant program needed uh bodies, um the ruling in at that time was within once you graduate, you get your next rank. So I already had all the schooling for that too. So uh it was a one-year program. Uh my battle buddy and I did the program together, and my other battle buddy was a teacher. Uh so you know it's kind of and we kind of grew closer after after that, but uh it was uh it was a fun time. We'd we'd get together in the morning on our motorcycles, drive up to this place, uh, wherever the training was, uh do our training all day long, come home, study, you know, go back the next day, do it again. And wow, you know, just uh intense program of you know leadership and how to do the do the j do the job as a drill sergeant. So right.

SPEAKER_01: 17:44

And I don't, you know, I don't want the point to be lost either. You um you you knew somebody who had kind of walked you through how to how to make sure you're prepared for the next level. And I think sometimes that just doesn't happen. I mean, you know, we're we're responsible for our careers, but it's always great to have somebody who's gonna kind of help show you what you need to do so that you can be prepared.

SPEAKER_00: 18:05

Yeah, and this guy, um uh first sergeant wrecker, um, Roger Wrecker, he was uh a mentor to not just me, but to many people. Two of his sons became first sergeants, I became a first sergeant, and I can't imagine how many other people became first sergeants because of his, you know, mentoring. Yeah. But you know, he laid out a laid out the path. I mean, just exactly how I should have done it and how I did it. And, you know, I listened luckily and was able to uh he's uh 95 right now. Really? Still alive, and uh I'm hoping to see him maybe at Christmas time. Uh huh. I saw his uh son, who's my battle buddy, and uh just when I went up there, went up to uh Wisconsin a couple months ago, so it was pretty cool. And then we're gonna see our other the two of us are gonna get together and fly down to Florida and see our other battle buddy.

SPEAKER_01: 18:58

So Oh, that's gonna be a good time.

SPEAKER_00: 18:59

Yeah, yeah, looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01: 19:01

Yeah. My my son who served in the army was just visiting here uh and he brought three of his battle buddies that he had served with. They hadn't seen each other in 15 years, and they were all here at the house hanging out, telling stories.

SPEAKER_00: 19:13

So you can get together with these guys and it's just like you never left.

SPEAKER_01: 19:17

Yeah, pick up where you left off, basically.

SPEAKER_00: 19:19

Yeah. I've I've been out, you know, t 24 years. Yeah. Or 20 22 years, and you know, we're still close today as we were then, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 19:29

Yeah, yeah. It's a it's a great i and I it it's it I think the military is the only place that you get that, honestly. I've worked in a lot of different areas, but the military, those guys I can just pick up and and and and talk with them and we're good. You know, you said something else there too, is uh, you know, uh uh for Sergeant Wrecker was a great leader, but you listened. Yeah, you've got to be a great follower, otherwise you otherwise you're not gonna get these leadership lessons. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00: 19:55

Yeah, I was young and hungry, you know. Yeah. So talk willing to learn, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 19:59

Talk to me about being a drill sergeant then. So you make it through the school and and you get promoted. So now you're an E6 staff sergeant.

SPEAKER_00: 20:05

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:07

How old are you at that point? You know, you're not very old.

SPEAKER_00: 20:10

I should have wrote that down.

SPEAKER_01: 20:11

Yeah, it wasn't probably like 20 or something.

SPEAKER_00: 20:14

Yeah, yeah, 20, 22, 20.

SPEAKER_01: 20:15

Yeah, most of those guys are in the E4 mafia, but you're a staff sergeant.

SPEAKER_00: 20:20

It was uh a fun time. It was uh, you know, interesting because you know, you know, the kids would and I call them kids, but they're you know, 18-year-olds uh when we go in and push troops, uh, they would just hit the walls, you know, get out of your way, do whatever they had to do um to avoid pain. Right. Um I was in during the kindler and gentler years of bragging, you know, so it was kind of cool. You know, we there was still wall-to-wall counseling, but uh wasn't like it was in the past, you know, where you don't have to beat up people to uh get your get your uh point across. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 20:59

Um did they have stress cards? No. You weren't part of that year, though.

SPEAKER_00: 21:03

No, no, we yeah. No, we we gave them stress, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 21:07

Right. They needed it. That's part of being in basic training.

SPEAKER_00: 21:10

Yeah, so we we had a good good time. You know, we'd go down as you know, go as a unit um and get assigned to a group. Uh the beginning of basic training is hell weeks. Um, so about two weeks period of time, you're there literally. You have to get up in the morning, get dressed, get there by five in the morning to wake them up by five thirty. Um you're there till eight o'clock, eight thirty at night when you put them to bed. You get home, you polish your boots, get your uniform pressed, you know, do everything like that, and then go to bed and start it over again the next day. And you do that for about every drill sergeant does that for about two, two to three solid weeks. And then what happens is you uh as you start moving into the different periods and phases of the basic training, you uh start to lighten up a little bit. So one drill sergeant does the morning PT, the other, then the other drill sergeant comes in, then the you know, in the evening one drill sergeant gets cut loose early, and you know, so it starts getting a little better. You can definitely see why the divorce rate's so high in the military, you know, especially in that that job, because you are committed.

SPEAKER_01: 23:01

That's your life, that's what you do, right?

SPEAKER_00: 23:03

You've got to get those guys and you're you're in charge of them through the whole thing. So then, you know, towards the end, excuse me.

unknown: 23:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 23:11

Let me try this towards the end of uh the the phases, you know, it's the platoon leader and the squad leaders are doing all the marching and doing all the cadence and doing everything, and you know, so it's kind of a nice phase where the drill sergeant can kind of back off a little bit. Uh you know, you're still waking them up in the morning, you're still putting them to bed at night. But you know, after that it's you know the platoon sergeants in charge of everything. Platoon leader, excuse me.

SPEAKER_01: 23:41

What's it so what's it like watching a group of people come in who, you know, aren't clearly are not military, and then seeing them come out the other side.

SPEAKER_00: 23:53

Yeah, so it's civilian to milit to military, you know. So it's you know, they're a lot of people come in with their gangster attitudes and their, you know, I'm better, I'm not better than you, but I'm badder than you.

SPEAKER_01: 24:07

And you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna get through this without any ear BS, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00: 24:10

Yeah, yeah, you gotta break them real quick or they get recycled, you know, and then you get recycled a couple times, then they just send you home.

SPEAKER_01: 24:19

Right. You know, so and how does that reflect on the the the the drill staff then when people get recycled or get people get sent home? Is there a sense of how did I fail that person?

SPEAKER_00: 24:30

No. And I'll tell you, the in the drill certain program, in in the drill cern academy, there's a fallout rate. Yeah, we know that. So in basic training, we know there's gonna be a fallout rate, and you know, we try our best to get them everything, but there's some people that just are never gonna get it or not made for the military, and it's better to just uh recycle them, put them in another unit, see if they can start over and start fresh. Um, and if that like I said, if that doesn't work, then it's time to go home.

SPEAKER_01: 24:59

Right. Well, and not every not everybody's suited for the military.

SPEAKER_00: 25:02

No, that's for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:04

I'm sure you've seen your fair share of those folks. Yeah. So how long were you a drill instructor?

SPEAKER_00: 25:08

Too long. So I was I got promoted to E8 at um oh I got my E7 fairly short, maybe uh within my six-year enlistment.

unknown: 25:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 25:21

So um, but again, I had all my schools done, nobody else had their schooling done. Right. So when this promotion came up, it was like, hey, he's got the promotion.

SPEAKER_01: 25:30

Well, and I want to make a point too, because you can you can check all those boxes, right? But there's still you still there's things that you still have to be a leader to get those promotions. Yeah, you know, and I want to be very clear about that. Like, yeah, you got these promotions very quickly and very young, but if you weren't ready for them, you would not have gotten them. And I think that's a I don't want to lose that point in this conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 25:53

Yeah, and I had besides first sergeant record, I had other good mentors that uh you know pointed me in the right direction and how to you know what to do and how to do it right. You know, as a as a brand new drill sergeant, you don't know what you're getting into, you know. You've been trained, but you know, it's it's all different until you get in front of the troops, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 26:09

So you don't know what you don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 26:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:11

So I um and I want to stop for just one second because you just said something. What that if if you can remember, tell me about that very first time where you're the you're the man, you're the drill instructor, and you get in front of those troops. What was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00: 26:27

I think it was the coolest moment of my career, yeah. Just be able to do what I I went in originally to signed up to be a drill sergeant, and here I am. I'm I'm there. Um we'd go in pairs, you know, so we'd have two drill sergeants, if not three per squad. And uh it was uh it was very interesting. We uh just to s you know see these young men um you know growing and learning and progressing in the military was fun. You know, they stepped on themselves a few times and probably more than a few times, and you know, the the correction was quick and and fairs. Um one of my favorite things to do was um you know everybody had to have their uniforms, every button buttoned up on their uniforms, and these buttons, these uniforms had buttons everywhere. By design. Yeah. So I'd go around and check the uniforms in formation, and uh they'd have to give me 10 push-ups for each button I'd find, and I could I could find buttons, you know. Right. But uh so I had I had some kids you just owed me you know hundreds of push-ups, you know, we knock out 20 right now, and then we'd you know, come back, knock out 20 again. And I had a good memory, so I didn't uh miss anything.

SPEAKER_01: 27:52

You were that guy, they were like, Oh, you're not gonna get past this guy.

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

Yeah. You know, I'll tell you one interesting story in basic training, and I don't know what, you know, I was probably an E7 at that point, but uh all the drill sergeants, it was a Sunday, and Sundays mornings were usually a little more relaxed. Uh we let them go to church and we let them clean their uniforms and the barracks and things like that. And we were sitting in the drill sergeant's office, and uh a young soldier came in and he knocked wrong on the door. You have to knock three times, you have to announce yourself, and then the drill sergeant says, Enter. And so he did it wrong. Uh, came in, and all of his drill sergeants are around there, and uh, so we give him push-ups. And then one of the drill sergeants asks him another question, and he blows that question and doing more push-ups. So eventually he can't do any more push-ups, he's just his arms are butter, right? So then we give him a rifle and have him do rifle drills, and you know, we're so we're just asking these questions. And one of the drill sergeants in there knew every president and what year they were, you know, you know, presidents and everything with this. So this guy was just starting to ask questions. Who is the 54th president? Who is you know, all these different things? And this kid couldn't get any of them right. So yeah, he was just butter at the end and just a ball of sweat. And eventually it's like, okay, get out of here. And uh, so we're sitting around kind of chuckling, and it's like, what did he come in here for anyway? You know, and it ended up being he came in for a band-aid. Oh man, you know, mistake. Yeah, you know, you need your battle buddy for your band-aid, not the drill sergeant.

SPEAKER_01: 29:29

Lesson lesson learned, right? Yeah, definitely. You probably didn't knock on that door again. Never, never, yeah. Good for him.

SPEAKER_00: 29:37

Learned a good lesson.

SPEAKER_01: 29:38

Yeah. Uh so you uh you see you you get through your first enlistment six years, yeah, and uh you decide this this is what you want. Like the military's for you, so you decide to reenlist or talk through that with me.

SPEAKER_00: 29:51

I always said if it wasn't fun, I wasn't gonna do it. Yeah. So it it was we were having fun. Yeah. Um, what was interesting about being a drill sergeant and getting older was the troops were still 18 and I was getting older. Right. You know, so I was getting uh, you know, a little slower on my running, a little slower on some other things and uh, you know, to still push the troops, but uh, you know, some of the younger drill sergeants, I let them do the PT and I did the other things, you know. Right. But I also got was very smart and I got a license in everything I could get a license in and trained in everything I get training in. I love training, I love learning. Um, so when it came time to do the forced march, you know, um they looked around and said, Who has uh who's a combat lifesaver? And I was a combat lifesaver, so who can drive the ambulance? I had a license to drive the ambulance. So I'd be at the end of the end of the troops driving the ambulance, you know, picking up all the stragglers instead of being the guy with a backpack on my back marching. Right, you know, so learn how to get smarter than you know, I could I could drive a deuce and half, a five ton, you know, I could drive just about anything. I had license for those, you know. So it's yeah, when it came up, you know, somebody needed something, I had the license or I could do it, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 31:14

So well, and and let's be honest, you you've you've done the force march. It's not like it's not like you've never done it, right? It's not like you're asking these guys to do something you haven't done, you've done it. And now it's somebody else's turn.

SPEAKER_00: 31:24

Yeah, multiple times, multiple times. Yeah. One of the uh some of the other interesting things in basic training is in AIT is uh you know the gas chamber. Yeah, we all love that. And uh going Going through it as a basic trainee, you know, was interesting that they planted a tree right outside the door. So when you came out and you were couldn't see anything and you were slobbering and doing everything else, people ran right into that tree. Uh years later, when I was a drill sergeant, that tree's still there, but it's bigger. Right. So, but you know, to be in that uh gas chamber with the gas mask on and pushing troops through it, you know, was different than being the guy going through it, you know. So it was it was fun. The some of the other ones were like grenades, you know, the grenade range. Um, you know, as a basic training, you just there's a fear there with that live grenade. Um, even though you practice a lot and uh tried tried your hardest, uh, you know, I didn't have baseball in my background, you know. So it wasn't probably the best throw of my life, but uh, you know, I got it out there. But uh as a as a drill sir, and I was in the pit with this young man, and uh he dropped it, pulled a pin, flipped it, dropped it in our pit, and you know, there was a sump in there. It's it should have gone down in the sump.

SPEAKER_02: 32:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 32:49

I grabbed him, threw him over the wall. I got over the wall and it went off. I mean, it's like that's close. That's a close call. Super close. Yeah. Um, on the rifle range, I remember a time where uh a private um his weapon wasn't working, so he points it at me, turns it and points it at me. You know, I kick him in in the head. He had his hard hat on or his helmet on, so he probably felt it, but yeah, understood there's a problem.

SPEAKER_01: 33:19

But you didn't hurt him.

SPEAKER_00: 33:19

Right, right. So but just you know, the dumb things that the privates do, right? You know, and you try to keep them alive and everybody else alive, including yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 33:30

So Yeah, no one wants to get flagged on the range. That's not a good thing at all. No. Yeah. So how long did you stay in in uh as a drill sergeant? So I I mean you said too long, but really how long?

SPEAKER_00: 33:44

Yeah, so I realized, you know, I was getting older, and uh so I went and taught the drill sergeant academy. Okay. Um so probably did uh drill sergeant maybe seven, eight years. Uh-huh. And then I went to teach to the drill sergeant academy. Um, I did that for about two years, uh, then became the commandant of the drill sergeant academy. And then uh uh right about then Desert Storm broke out. Yeah. And the drills, you know, my number was up. I was uh going. And uh the general came out and said, anybody in the drill sergeant academy is not going anywhere. And one of my buddies went my place. Um so that was Desert Storm, Desert Shield.

SPEAKER_01: 34:32

Yeah, you know, period. Yeah, the for like 91. Was it 91?

SPEAKER_00: 34:36

Uh I think it was closer to 2000. So yeah. Oh, you're right. Yeah. I think it was nine ninety-nine or so. Yeah. And uh so again, I always say tell everybody to have a blessed career, you know, right place, right time, uh-huh, you know, with the promotions and with uh everything. Um so I was a commandant of the academy for quite a few years and then finally got promoted to first sergeant, you know, and so that was when I was kind of done with the uh first sergeant, though, was uh first sergeant over a company of drill sergeants. Oh, okay. So I was still in the same training division and you know, pretty much spent my whole career in training.

SPEAKER_02: 35:16

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 35:16

So uh in between there, I went from a tanker to artillery. Um not that we ever worked on artillery because we were tank drill sergeants, but right, you know, the the people we were um the the troops that we were training were artillery, so we had to be artillery. Um and then after that I went to infantry uh later in my career. And uh that was one of the again another highlight, you know, just uh reclass into infantry. But so did you go to Benning as an instructor there or or you were still so my uh so at that point I was I was just finishing up my drill sergeant, you know, career and going into the uh you know academy and teaching the academy and everything like that. So I reclassed in Fort Dix, New Jersey in the middle of a hurricane. And infantry in the middle of a hurricane is not fun.

SPEAKER_01: 36:15

No, well, Fort Dix isn't fun to begin with. No, no, let's just be honest, that place sucks.

SPEAKER_00: 36:20

Nobody has a good good story about Fort Dix.

SPEAKER_01: 36:22

No, I'd like to meet one person that does, but I haven't met anybody yet.

SPEAKER_00: 36:25

Right, right. So it so it was good. I got you know, three combat MOSs, um, proud of the infantry one, uh, you know, the proud of the drill sergeant part of it, and yeah, you know, and then eventually got promoted to E8 um as a first sergeant in a as in a company that's you know pushing troops. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 36:49

So getting everyone prepared to to do what needs to be done. Yeah. And that's you know, I think people I think people uh sometimes discount the importance of all of the supporting elements that make it possible to do what the army does, right? Yeah. Like I I talk to people who say, Oh, well, I just served stateside and supply or whatever. Yeah, but you made it possible, you know, to do what we had to do. I mean, if you don't have trained troops, you're not going to war. Right. Right. You're not fighting the battle, you're not doing the job of the military. I think it's so important to be out there to be doing those things.

SPEAKER_00: 37:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 37:30

And everybody had a mission and yeah, exactly. So you spent your whole your whole career then in training. Doing what you wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00: 37:38

Yeah. So when I uh I was a first sergeant for uh probably about a year, year and a half. Uh-huh. And I had an opportunity to become uh assistant inspector general. And uh spent the last three years of my uh career as an assistant inspector general, which was pretty cool. Oh, that's awesome. So I worked for a two-star general and uh I worked for a colonel, but we all worked for the two-star general and the two-star our our job description, we were the eyes, ears, and conscience of this general. So our job was to keep him out of trouble. Right. So when a contractor would come on base and say, Oh, I can remodel your house for you for free. You know. But get this contract. Yeah, we were the we were the ones that told told him no. Yeah, we were the ones that uh did investigations on allegations of wrongdoing within the army. And then uh I had a seven-state area, or we did, we had a seven-state area that we'd fly out to and inspect units every year and make sure they were ready for war, you know, and their mission.

SPEAKER_01: 38:45

So wow. Yeah, and and that's another uh important uh group. The IG uh as a company commander, you know, the IG can be your friend.

SPEAKER_03: 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 38:58

You know, it doesn't feel that way sometimes. Right. But they could be your friend because they do, they keep you out of trouble.

SPEAKER_00: 39:03

Yeah, and it was interesting going in as an IG, you know. I had credentials from the general and uh we'd go in, show her the credentials. They knew we were coming, and but you know, the captains and the colonels and everybody else in in there were would get us anything we requested, you know, so we could help them. That's really what we're trying to do, not just find issues, you know. But we didn't just find them, but we gave them suggestions on how to fix them.

SPEAKER_01: 39:32

Uh-huh. So you never had to use the old line, which I have used in the past, and that's don't don't confuse your rank with my authority. Right. Right? Because when it comes to that, there's the the the rank matters, you have to be respectful, but uh you have a job to do.

SPEAKER_00: 39:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 39:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 39:50

Absolutely. So you uh you uh did you did you move around a bit though?

SPEAKER_00: 39:56

Um or were you kind of stationed in the same stationed in the same area, you know, just uh, you know, because most of my work was in Fort Knox and you know, we um the 84th headquarters at that time was in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. So, you know, and as an IG, I could I could live anywhere and fly to the seventh state area, you know. Um, you know, if I had to, I drove over. I was originally over in Wisconsin, and then I moved out here in uh 2000.

SPEAKER_02: 40:26

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 40:27

So for a job.

SPEAKER_01: 40:29

So you you came to Michigan for work then.

SPEAKER_00: 40:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 40:33

Okay. Were you married during all this time?

SPEAKER_00: 40:35

Yeah, my wife and I met. I was an E4.

SPEAKER_01: 40:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 40:38

And uh she she accepted it very well. Uh her family didn't think I uh that her and I were married because uh, you know, when the family family functions came up, I was never around. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 40:51

You know, you were a make-believe boyfriend.

SPEAKER_00: 40:53

Yeah, yeah. Her her fam most of her families were here in Michigan.

SPEAKER_02: 40:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 40:58

And, you know, so we'd drive up or she'd have to go up, and you know, I just wasn't I was always in training or doing something, you know. So it's you know, for many years that was the joke, is if they're even married, you know, because I I never showed up with them. Yeah. How'd you meet? Uh so we met when I was very young. So we met in a bar. Oh, well. Wasn't that young, I guess, but it was drinking age was 18 at the time. You know, so we uh we uh kind of met at a bar. Um she'll tell you tell you we met at a movie theater. Uh one of these other girls uh wanted to get with me. Uh-huh. And she was way young, and uh, you know, I wasn't interested, but uh I met her there and then uh met her at a bar uh just by accident. But uh as soon as I met talked to her that night in the bar, it's like I know this is the one for me. Yeah, you know, which was amazing, you know, that you can just have that feeling. And we just hit our 40-year anniversary October 5th.

SPEAKER_01: 42:09

That's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 42:11

So you beat the odds. Yeah, yeah. We uh weren't even together maybe six months, and I proposed to her uh and got married within a year and just you know Well, congratulations, that's yeah, it's kind of a crazy story, but it worked out, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 42:29

Yeah, well, when you meet the right person, why why mess around? I mean, yeah, right, yeah, yeah. Well, six months, that's long enough. Right? You probably knew right away, but you had to wait that requisite six months.

SPEAKER_00: 42:41

So I I proposed to a good Irish girl on St. Patrick's Day.

SPEAKER_01: 42:44

Oh, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_00: 42:45

You know, I can remember that, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 42:47

Yeah, that's not hard to do. Hopefully you got married so that you don't forget your anniversary, too, right?

SPEAKER_00: 42:52

Right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:54

Well, good. So you uh you came to Michigan then in the 2000s. So you got when did you retire then? 2002. Okay. So you left the military in 2002 and and um so what what happens? So first of all, I gotta ask this question before I say what happens. Yeah what was it like like that last day in uniform, and you know that you're retiring and you're gonna be leaving. What was that like for you? Because you spent your whole adult life in the military.

SPEAKER_00: 43:25

Yeah, I had I had my family there, uh huh, uh, which was cool. And uh it was in Milwaukee at the headquarters. The uh two-star general pinned on a meritorious service medal for me, which was pretty cool. And the, you know, had a and I and another medal. I can't think of what it was, but the meritorious service is one of them I was really hoping to get before I retired. And uh, you know, to have the whole my entire family there, my kids and my uh my wife, the grandparents, and everybody else, it was pretty cool, you know. And then we had a little party afterwards, and you know, because cool part when you retire, they don't make you stay the whole day. Yeah, yeah. You can you can you can go now, right? So yeah, they in front of a formation headquarters company, you know, it's like wow, you know, so that was yeah, pretty touching.

SPEAKER_01: 44:20

That's pretty amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Now you have you said you have kids? Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 44:24

How many? So I have uh two. Uh huh. A daughter that's older and uh son that's younger. So I started writing a book about my military career, yeah, which is right here. But um I I really did it because my kids never knew what I did in the military. Right. You know, which is you know, if and you think about it, most veterans don't talk about what they did in the military.

SPEAKER_01: 44:48

No, that's what that's what we that's what we try and get people to do here.

SPEAKER_00: 44:51

You probably know better than anybody, yeah. So the uh but I would tell my wife, you know, I'm right gonna write this book because my kids don't know what I what I did. Yeah. And uh she says, Well, I don't know what you did, and I was married to you. It's like, well, fair enough.

SPEAKER_01: 45:08

Supposedly married, right, according to the family.

SPEAKER_00: 45:10

Right, right. Yeah. So it's it's uh been an interesting journey. I uh you know, as I write, you know, some of these stories come back to me and it's like, wow, you know, I remember that. And then uh and uh then I'll I won't have, you know, for a while I I'm just not motivated to write or, you know, have that writer's block or whatever, and then I'll go back to it and uh just hit it for a while and then I'll stop for a while. And I think I March was the last time I wrote in the book, you know. So it's been an interesting journey trying to get it out, you know. I'd like to have it finished here soon so you know I can get it to a first art and record. Yeah. And so he can read, you know, because I I certainly wrote some nice pages about him.

SPEAKER_01: 45:53

Well, you know, I think everybody deserves that. I I call it the it's a wonderful life moment, you know, where you get to see how you positively impacted people. I think so many people don't get that, right? And for him to be able to see, you know, there's some part of him that understands it how he impacted you, but for him to read it and understand that you know that he's the guy that really helped you, yeah, that's gonna mean a lot to him, I think. Yep, yep. Yeah. So you you get out in 2002 and um what what's next for for you know retard retired first sergeant veteran?

SPEAKER_00: 46:30

So I worked uh for a contract company in commercial real estate. Uh-huh. And um went in as a facility manager into a General Motors plant. The uh it was a Rhymless transmission, so just a small uh rented property that General Motors had, uh 280,000 square foot. And my job was to manage the facilities. And it was one of their first uh outsourcing attempts of getting the UAW and everybody else out of facilities and just letting the UEW and everybody concentrate on making transmissions. Yeah. So I went in there, um was able to put in systems, and I I relate the systems back to what we did in the military. Um, you know, everything was a system on how you do basic training, how you do everything, you know. So we put I put systems in that uh the newest person on my team could pick up and just go and run with. And uh in uh General Motors liked what I was putting together and they copied some of my systems and used them uh in throughout all the rest of their their buildings. And so eventually GM liked what we did and said, Hey, we're gonna do this at other plants. Would you bid on these other plants? So we my uh boss and I would get together when a a bid would come out and we'd put a packet together and bid on these plants. And I went from 280,000 square foot facility to over six million square feet in facilities, uh, from Toledo to Ypsilani to Romulus, and we're still we were still growing. Yeah. And uh, you know, my boss would say to people, I don't know what he's doing, he just does it, you know. So so eventually I went from a facility manager to a um senior facility manager to vice president to you know moving up in the chain to you know the vice president in charge in this company, vice president of facility management. Um so but I would always do sales and then always putting these systems every time we moved into one of these places. And so one of the systems, I'll give you an example. You know, if we had a 10-inch water main break, which took out the water to the entire plant, um, we had systems in place that within a half hour we'd have porta potties in the plant, we'd have porta sinks in the plant, we'd have 3,000 gallon trucks coming in putting water in their coolant systems. So we never slowed down or stopped the production. Um because it anytime you slowed down or stopped the production, you'd have every vice president in the company standing in front of you, similar to the military. Right. You know, trying to figure out why you you can't get this fixed. So we put these systems in place to fix them, which was very similar to what we did in the military, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 49:33

So it sounds like they were scalable too, right? Yeah. Like you put a system in place for a small facility, you could scale that up or scale that down depending on what you're doing. Yeah, correct. Yeah, yeah. Which is so important because then you're not reinventing the wheel every time you do something.

SPEAKER_00: 49:46

Yeah, and we used other unions. Uh-huh. So we didn't get in trouble with the UEW. They couldn't say much because it was union. Right. Right. And uh, but we also, their other unions were very creative. And uh, you know, so they they're also the ones that were building the other manufacturing sites around the area. So in 2008, when things got bad, you know, I went to the unions and said, let's partner up. Let's figure out how you know these C-level suite people. I want to know them. Right. You know, we can do great things together, you know, with uh running the management, you running the people through. So we built the business even stronger through those racial relationships, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 50:31

And that was a tough time. Yeah. That was a really tough day. That's a tough time to keep a job. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 50:37

Yeah, and we were growing and everybody everybody else in our company was, you know, staying still or going the wrong direction.

SPEAKER_01: 50:45

Right. You might be building less, but you're still building stuff. Yeah. Right. And you can't again, you can't afford a slowdown when you're doing that. Right. And I, you know, it it's interesting you talk about building that partnership with with the union because uh it's if you're in a union environment, that's so important, uh, to to get rid of the us and them mentality and and and come back with a we mentality that you can work together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 51:11

And I think that's just uh good leadership from the military. Yeah. We have to figure out how to work together and uh complete the mission.

SPEAKER_01: 51:19

If you if you think about military structure, I mean, honestly, you have management, which is kind of the officer corps, and you have the the union, which I think the first sergeant's like your union steward, right? He's there to take care of the enlisted people. Right. Also there to get the the mission done, you know, that's that's been worked out, but to take care, to make sure the enlisted folks are taken care of. Right. Yeah. Yep. So you've worked both sides of that uh that equation.

SPEAKER_00: 51:42

Yep. So I did that for yeah, okay, cool. Uh 13 years in the General Motors plants. Uh-huh. Um, then I moved on to uh COO position of a 17 million dollar company and did that for about a year downtown downtown Detroit and uh got oper an opportunity to uh I had a few other little things in there, but uh I had an opportunity to be a COO of a$70 million company downtown Detroit and uh to turn them around. They were stuck at$70 million for um about four years, uh-huh. Couldn't grow, couldn't make any forward progression. So I came in and we changed the world on them. And the CEO let me do it. You know, we divorced$9 million worth of business, what was bad business that wasn't good for him. The brought in another nine million dollars of new business that was good business, uh, made them money, um, changed department heads, changed people, you know, just got the right players in the right seats and you know, moved the company forward. But, you know, after the uh after the uh about a year, uh the the CEO came to me and said, Hey, thanks. I got it from here once I fixed it for him. Right. You know, so it's like okay, I can see where this is going, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 53:07

Thank you for your service. See you later.

SPEAKER_00: 53:09

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, but I think again it was the military kind of the background of you know, getting everybody kind of in lockstep and right doing the right things and that helped that progression, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 53:24

So you left there and did you continue working then?

SPEAKER_00: 53:28

So I left there and I took a year, you know. Trying to find a COO position is a very hard, right? Hard uh thing to do. You know, there's not that many of them out there and not many that are open. Yeah. So um uh took took some other smaller jobs, you know. You know, I was either overqualified or I was uh, you know, they they didn't have the job, you know. You know, so uh so I took some other smaller jobs just to do that. I also started my own business at that time, uh property management company. Uh picked up uh five five buildings or five properties um that were smaller, and so I just did that on the part-time yeah and uh eventually um I did well my first year doing that, and I looked at the books and everything and said, you know, maybe I've got something here. So I started my own business and stopped working for other people and building their business and started building my business. So from 2018 on up until this year, I had my own business going. So uh this year I officially retired at 60.

SPEAKER_01: 54:37

So yeah. You're not really retired though, you're gonna find something to do up that.

SPEAKER_00: 54:41

I'm retired. Yeah, I sold all the trucks, all the tools, everything. I'm I'm retired, you know. But I had some health issues and just uh trying to get healthy now. Yeah, you know, and not worry about the silly stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 54:55

Time to build some systems for you. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, t tell me a little bit about your kids. What are they doing now?

SPEAKER_00: 55:03

So my son worked for me for a little while, about a year and a half. Um, but he he was working at FMG concrete cutting and uh doing really well in that company. Um worked for me for about a year and a half, and then uh they came back and made him an offer he couldn't refuse, so he's back there doing that. Oh he goes all over the state of Michigan and uh cuts concrete. He he drills holes from big holes to little holes. Uh-huh. But uh he's so he's in all these plants that I used to be in. You know, so it's kind of cool to hear some of the stories, you know. Um my daughter is a stay-at-home mom. Um she has two children with her first husband. Um she has um just got married her second time. She has or she has another child with uh new husband. And um he had two children. So she has children right now from 18 to 3. Oh, she's busy. Oh, yeah. She's super busy. Yeah, and they're all in Michigan then. Yeah, right here in Howell. Oh, right in Howell. Excellent. Both of them. So that's kind of cool. We get to see my son has uh uh eight-year-old. Uh huh. So you know, we get to see him every now and then.

SPEAKER_01: 56:19

So yeah. It's nice to be a grandparent, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 56:22

It is, it's fun. Yeah, I took my youngest um this week, and we went off and just did things. We went to a pawn shop and uh and uh just looked around at the pawn shop and kept him busy for a little while. Went to McDonald's, had lunch, took him to get a haircut, so it was kind of cool to just spend the day with him. Yeah. My uh wife and my daughter were wondering if I was ever coming back.

SPEAKER_01: 56:49

Did you find they exhaust you?

SPEAKER_00: 56:51

Yeah, at the end he did, yeah. Yeah, yeah. At the end he was I was trying to pull something off my computer and get information, and he didn't want to hang out with grandma. He wanted to hang out with me, you know. Of course. So I was like, wow, can I just get a break for a second here? You know, right.

SPEAKER_01: 57:06

I just need a couple minutes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 57:08

Get this paperwork done.

SPEAKER_01: 57:09

Well, we've we've talked about a lot of stuff tonight, uh this actually this morning. Um, is there anything we haven't covered that you wanted to talk about?

SPEAKER_00: 57:17

Um, so I'll tell you one interesting thing. As a 16-year-old kid getting ready to join the army, I had to go to Milwaukee, Wisconsin for MEPS. Yeah. And that's your entry program, military entry program, where they do your physical and see if you're fit to be in the military, and then they assign you your duty or your MOS, your military occupation specialist specialty, which was a tanker for me. Um, I originally wanted to go in as a cook. I was a McDonald in McDonald's as a young man, uh, AW McDonald's, you know, I was cooking, and uh, and they said the recruiter told me I could get uh E3 right away when I joined because I could because I had experience and I thought, oh there you go, I get in rank. And uh I went into maps and found out I was colorblind, which which I knew. Uh huh. And they said you can't be a cook. And it's like, why? Salt and pepper, black and white. Right. I don't understand, you know. But they said, Do you want to be a tanker? And you know, and it's like, yeah. Well, you can't be a cook, but you can drive a tank. Right, right. That's funny. It was it was interesting. Um, but you know, we went in there and uh it was just an eye-opening. It took the bus for the first time in my life to get down there. Uh-huh. Uh about two-hour drive in a bus. And uh so had a lot of firsts. Uh got a hotel room. Uh, so myself and another guy were teamed up in this hotel room that was going through maps. Uh, didn't know him from anybody, and he didn't know me. And so we're sitting in this room going, hey, what should we do? And we decide to go out on the and walk around town. Yeah. And obviously, this wasn't in the best place of town, but we 16, you don't know that. You don't know that, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 59:04

MEPS rarely is in the good part of town. Right. Rarely.

SPEAKER_00: 59:07

So we uh we go out and start walking around the town, get get probably four blocks down the road, and um these ladies of the night are hooting and hollering at us and yelling for us to come over and see them. And uh, you know, here I am, 16, going, what the heck did I just get into? So this guy and I decide we're gonna run. We're running back to the hotel. This is not for us, we got to get somewhere safe. Um, so we're running, they're running after us. Um, we're we're cruising, just about get to the hotel, and they cut through an alley that they knew the place better than we did. Yeah, and all of a sudden they got us cornered and they're like, Oh, come on, you know, I think there's four girls. Uh-huh. And it's like, oh my God, you know, I have no money. I'm 16.

unknown: 59:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 59:53

I'm gonna do anything anyway. I I just want to get back to the hotel room and get out get away from this. But you know, so finally we we just we got out of there, got back to the hotel room, and they realized we we broke, right? Broke kids, you know. Right. So that was that was done. But it was an interesting story that you know I don't think I've ever told anybody because you know, maybe my buddies, you know. Right, yeah, yeah. But you know, it's like, oh my goodness. So next day we go to MEPS and we're going through everything, and the uh, you know, we we get in this big room, the doctor comes in, and we're in our t-shirts and skivvies, and doctor says, turn around and face the wall. We all turn around and face the wall, and uh basically says, drop your drawers. So we'll do that. And uh he says, Bend over, grab your cheeks. And naturally there's one guy in there that grabs grabs his cheeks. Right. And they weren't drill sergeants, but they were acted like drill sergeants at that time, and they were all over this guy, and say, No, you think you're funny, wrong cheeks, you know. So we had that experience, you know, at S16 wasn't uh pleasant, pleasurable or wanted. But uh, you know, came out of that and you know, signed the paper, raised her hand, and you know, as a group and got sworn in. So yeah, that was frequent. Then jumped on the bus and went back home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:19

Wow. Yeah. Learned a lot in a very short period of time. Yeah, yeah, as a young man. Exactly, exactly. Well, thanks for sharing that. And also, um, you know, as we kind of wrap things up, I I like to ask people kind of the same question every time, and that is you know, people listening to this story years from Now, whether it's family, friends, or just someone who wants to know about our military history, what uh you know, what would you like to leave them with? What piece of advice or or you know about how you lived your life, what you did in the military, you know, what would you like to leave for people?

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:53

I I think it was the best decision I ever made in my life. I think it uh shaped my life, my career. I think it shaped, you know, the way I led in work and in the family. Uh sometimes good, sometimes bad. Uh, you know, the drill sermon in me would come out every now and then. And I try really hard not to let that guy come out. But uh, you know, just think of what a blessed career I had. You know, when I retired from the military, the guy who took my spot six months later went overseas. And so I was right in this window. You did everything the first sergeant record told me to do, you know, got, you know, like I said, right place, right time, had a blessed career. Um, the opportunities I had to meet people, shoot things, do, you know, just the weapons systems I was able to shoot, uh, different things, you know, it was it was pretty cool. I always said it was not fun, I'm not gonna do it. And it was fun, you know. It was uh and you don't realize what a good decision staying in the 20 years and retiring. I retired at 37. Yeah. And uh I've been out longer than I was in. But the blessings that are happening right now when I'm 60, you know, my retirement comes in every month, my health insurance is paid for, you know, I pay very little every month for my TRICARE. And, you know, it's like, wow, you know, I was self-employed for you know, seven years, and I know what paying health insurance costs. Right. You know, it's and to see this health insurance that the government's taking care of me. The VA takes great care of me. I mean, all the diff just the different benefits that you have, I think, is you know, people just don't realize what that opportunity afforded them.

unknown: 1:03:46

You know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:48

Well, and I think, you know, we go in for one reason and we come out, and there's all these other things we didn't think about that were yeah, you know, they're blessings for us.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:55

And I didn't think about them until later in life. Yeah. You know, it's like, wow, you know, hindsight here, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:01

Oh, exactly. All right. Well, Jim, thanks for coming out. I know it took us a little while to get together, but I'm glad that we finally did. Yeah. Um, thanks for sharing your story.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:08

All right, thank you.