He Didn’t Want To Go To War, But He Went And Led Men (David Dargo)

A seven-acre childhood with backyard goalposts, glass oil jars at a full-service station, and pickup baseball games—Dave’s life started in motion and never really stopped. That momentum carried him from Delta Airlines to a draft notice, from Fort Jackson’s mess hall floor to a First Cav helicopter banking into a hot landing zone. What follows isn’t a highlight reel; it’s an unvarnished account of what it means to walk point, carry the radio that gives away your position, and learn to sleep in a hole you dug an hour earlier.

We take you from the first blast of heat in Bien Hoa to the nightly circle where claymores guard the dark. Dave explains how squads hunted trails, why the M79’s arc is a gamble under jungle canopy, and how a Cobra can miss and send danger running straight toward you. He remembers Cambodia’s rubber trees, a friend shot through the heart at a shallow stream, and a firebase fight so violent a helicopter blade took a pilot’s life yards away. Morning revealed sixty enemy dead, eight Americans lost, and a bulldozer flown in to cut a mass grave—then the order came to move out.

Between firefights, survival was practical: iodine tablets in crater water, twenty-five days without a shower, and letters from home kept dry in an M60 ammo can. A chaplain’s Communion under ponchos. Sports clippings about the Tigers. The quiet rituals that hold a young man together. When Dave finally caught the freedom bird, Fort Dix offered a steak dinner and a warning to hide the uniform. He didn’t. He had done what was asked. Back home he said almost nothing for fifty years, building a marriage, raising daughters, working decades at Delta, and later caring for a granddaughter with the same determination that once kept him alive.

This is a rare, plainspoken oral history of Vietnam and its long shadow—rich in detail and humanity. If you value honest veteran stories, small-unit tactics, First Cavalry history, and the difference between friends and buddies, you’ll find something here that stays. Listen, share with someone who needs it, and if it resonates, leave a review so more people can hear voices like Dave’s.

Chapters

• 2:00 Early Life In Michigan
• 6:10 Working The Old Full-Service Gas Station
• 10:50 Catholic School To Public High School
• 16:20 Draft Looms And Delta Airlines Job
• 20:30 Drafted: Fort Wayne To Fort Knox
• 26:20 Basic At Fort Jackson And First Lessons
• 32:00 Infantry Training And Weapons
• 36:20 NCO School, Burnout, And Orders
• 41:50 AWOL Days And The Flight West
• 46:10 Freedom Bird One Way: Arrival In Vietnam
• 51:20 First Cav Assignment And Into The Field
• 57:10 Walking Point And Carrying The Radio
• 1:03:06 Ambush Tactics And Night Circles
• 1:08:56 Small-Unit Ambush And First Contact
• 1:14:06 Hot LZs And Near Misses
• 1:19:06 Cambodia Invasion And Loss Of A Friend
• 1:26:46 The Firebase Attack And Aftermath
• 1:35:16 Living Conditions, Faith, And Survival
• 1:41:36 Rotations, New Guys, And Leadership
• 1:47:06 Sent Back, Freedom Bird Home, And Steak
• 1:52:16 Coming Home, Silence, And A New Life
• 1:57:46 Marriage, Career, And Raising A Family
• 2:04:16 Work After Delta And Grandkids

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 1:00

Today is Thursday, October 23rd. We're talking with David Dargo, who served in the United States Army. So good morning, Dave. Good morning. Do you prefer Dave or David?

SPEAKER_00: 1:10

I usually go by Dave. Okay. But some of my relatives used to call me Dave. Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18

So uh I was fine with both. I usually get called by my formal name if I'm in trouble.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24

Well, we'll start out pretty simple this morning. When and where were you born?

SPEAKER_00: 1:29

I was born uh 29th of April of 49 and in Romulus, Michigan.

SPEAKER_03: 1:36

Okay. And did you grow up in the Romulus area then? Uh I grew up in the Belleville area.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42

Okay. And uh what was it like growing up? I I grew up, it was probably the I grew up in an era of probably the I can remember it was the best. I always thought everybody was the same, but we were just a bunch of boys that I played to played with, and we did nothing but play baseball, played hockey, and uh rammed around the neighborhood on our bikes and uh and uh challenged different kids in the neighborhood to baseball games and we just it was just a lot of fun. Picked up picked up bottles alongside the road and we went to the store and got a pop, and uh uh we had a baseball field. We lived on seven acres, and uh my dad built a uh backstop, and then we had also had goal posts on each end. So my brother was big into base football, and I was uh I was I loved baseball better than football that wasn't wasn't my sport.

SPEAKER_03: 2:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:54

Now did you just have one brother then? One brother. Okay. Uh there was uh I was the last born in the family. Uh-huh. My brother was born in 45, and my uh I had a well, I wasn't born yet, but in 43, my mother had a uh baby girl, her name was Jean, and she died a couple days later after childbirth. And uh the uh she had uh a forcep birth and uh they actually crushed her skull. Oh my gosh. So so I often wondered whether if sh she would have lived, maybe my mother would have just had two children instead of having three. So I was the last born. That was the baby. Okay. So that's an interesting thought, really. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know, but but we were we were very my dad, my dad had uh uh problem finding work all the time, and uh he finally got into uh the gas station business. And uh so uh that was uh he did that for I don't know, thirty-five, maybe forty years. Oh, okay. Yeah. He retired when he was sixty five. So must have been a good business to be in. Well, it was like, you know, the typical gas station business, and then I worked with him. I worked with him, well, I used to go to the station with them all the time and just hang out there. Not every not all the time, but different days. Yeah. And then sometimes after when I was in uh high school, uh my dad worked uh one day he would work days, and the next day he'd work afternoons. And uh I would go in, I'd get off the bus, and then we'd we'd go to work, and we'd I'd come home at nine o'clock at night. So so so I enjoyed work with my dad. So it was a good experience.

SPEAKER_03: 5:08

So Yeah, that must be I I I I can imagine that like um a father and a son, um, you're working, but you're st I I can see that bond there. That's really nice.

SPEAKER_00: 5:19

Yeah, it was like a good exper I then I picked up some stuff you know, I picked up some, you know, I was the I was a typical kid that ran out to the the the to the after the bell rang. Uh-huh. You know, there'd be there was bells on the when a customer would pull in and they'd go out there and how much, you know, how much you fill up the tank, or sometimes it would be three dollars worth of gas, or big load was like maybe five. Yeah. It was like I sold gas when it was 19 cents a gallon. You know, maybe went up to a quarter after a while, but it was they had these gas wars. Right. The gas station across the corner, and uh it was a Sinoco station. We had the Sinoco station, and uh the other guy had a Sinclair station, and they were kind of like in a battle between who could get the lower price and get the customer because that was like a two-stall gas station, typical two, you know, the old-fashioned gas station. So it was uh it was interesting. You meet customers coming in and the guys would come in and you know, BS and uh and uh and it was just a good experience.

SPEAKER_03: 6:36

So you did you did car repair and stuff like that too?

SPEAKER_00: 6:40

So it was like a full Yeah, it was a full service gas station. Okay. My dad I didn't work on the cars, but I always my dad did. I assisted them, yeah, you know, and changed tires, you know, whatever I could do, you know, clean the floors, you know, whatever, you know. We that was at the time where you it was made I bet you a lot of it was uh we had bulk oil, and then you would take, you had like a uh like a handle on this pump where you'd pump the oil into these glass jars, and it would be exactly one quart of oil, glass jars. So you had to handle them carefully. So because they you get too if you get some oil on those, the those babies were slippery. So things have changed a lot, haven't they? Things have changed a lot.

SPEAKER_03: 7:32

Yeah, you know, I I I don't I can't think of a gas station right now where you pull in and you hear a bell anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 7:37

Well, yeah, they're they're obsolete. Yeah. So they're obsolete. So I can't even I don't even remember when they got rid of that, you know, but it was uh it was a good experience, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 7:49

Slowly went away. Yeah. But uh yeah, so what was school like for you?

SPEAKER_00: 7:53

School was like uh I went to uh kindergarten at uh public school, Belleville Public School, and then uh the Catholic school had I don't know what year it opened, but uh my parents sent sent uh sent us to Catholic school, so I went from uh first grade to eighth grade in the Catholic school. Okay. And then uh uh Catholics, we went to uh we were we were a Catholic family and we went to church every Sunday and then when I went to school we went to Mass every every day. Oh every day before school we'd go have a it'd be just a short mass and then you'd go to uh to your classroom. The the church and uh the uh schoolhouse was right next to each other. So, you know, a lot of people have uh well I hear, you know, different uh TV programs and stuff, they always gave a bad rap to the nuns and uh whatever. But I don't know. My uh my experience with the Catholic school was great. And uh I don't know if I was they always give me the nuns always gave me these little chores to do, you know. I had to uh uh go down at lunchtime and pick up the milk and then deliver it to all the classes. And uh I did my job and they appreciated it. And uh I just this was just a nice and we stuck together. We had originally our my uh first grade class had 50 kids in the class with one nun. And then we got as we followed each other all the way up to the eighth grade, uh uh it wound up to be about thirty. Thirty. So there was some kids dropping out, you know, of the set. But of course, you know, your parents had to pay, not only did they pay taxes, you know, they also had to pay uh tuition. Right. Which wasn't very much back then because they were we had mostly it was all nuns, all nuns that ran the school. And uh so I had a good experience.

SPEAKER_03: 10:20

Then I went to high school and uh Now did you you I'm sorry, but did you go to public school after Catholic school then? So nine.

SPEAKER_00: 10:29

Public high school. Okay. That was right next door to the Catholic school. Oh it was very it was it was right next door. Uh-huh. So we when I was in Catholic school, the at first uh the doc not doctor, the the public schools said, uh we're not gonna we're not gonna pick up the Catholic kids on the bus route. And uh and uh and uh pastor came back and said, well, if you're not gonna pick up the kids, you're just gonna have all the kids then. So so they they worked out an agreement that they the the Catholic school kids were picked up on the bus route and were delivered because they were right next to each other. Yeah, that's right. All you had to do was walk down the sidewalk and uh you were at the Catholic school. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 11:20

So then So what was it like going from Catholic school to public school? Was it a big change for them?

SPEAKER_00: 11:27

Well, you know, it was like, no, it wasn't too bad because you know what? They for some reason or other, they took all the Catholic school kids and they put all of us kids in the one room. It was called a uh well, it was not that was just for the beginning of the school day. It was homeroom.

SPEAKER_01: 11:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:47

And the homeroom lasted about 15 minutes, I'm gonna say 15 minutes, where they gave us uh, you know, we were some of the kids were doing their homework from the previous, you know, trying to catch up on something. And uh uh Mrs. Rowe, that was our homeroom teacher. I had her for four years in a row. She'd be doing like a little briefing in the morning and taking a head count, you know, attendance count. So, but uh it was uh it was a good experience. So you all got to see each other even through So we seen each other, the Catholic school kids stayed together the whole for those for those 15 minutes, and then we split up, went to our classes because each, you know, the classes were uh about 50 minutes, 50 minutes long. So maybe 55, I don't know, somewhere in there, 50 or 55. And then you had six we had at that time we had six classes. You had six different subjects to go to. And sometimes you had a uh uh what they call study hour.

SPEAKER_03: 12:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 12:56

And you go to study hour, you could either go to the study hall room, or you went if you got a pass, you could go to the library. But they could only take so many kids at the library. Right. So you had to have a certain special pass for that.

SPEAKER_03: 13:12

So and how was high school for you? Did you do well in school?

SPEAKER_00: 13:16

I was uh, you know what? I did uh I loved the work. I loved to work. And I did my best with like shop classes. That was my that was my thing. Yeah. And I I uh I did well with the teachers. I I algebra was a problem for me because I when I went to the kind of like when our first uh the high the Catholic school kids were a little bit ahead of the public school system. So when we went to the ninth grade, well we got into algebra, but you know, I was really I was really good at math, but then when they're they were showing me algebra, it just it didn't click with me, you know. So I didn't I did I did poorly with algebra. Yeah. But all my other classes, I was uh I was just the average student now in school, just average, you know. I didn't take no I didn't take no college classes or anything. Like my I don't know what they used to call those. Oh college prep. College prep.

SPEAKER_03: 14:25

Now they call them advanced advanced placement classes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:29

So my my goal uh was uh was just I just wanted to go after after I got out of school, I just wanted to go to work. Go to work, get a job, and uh, and uh that's what was my you know, just and uh I l, you know, it's just what I wanted to do. I wasn't uh I wasn't I didn't have one thought about going to college. No, not one. So but so we'd stand, I remember in the 11th and uh 11th and 12th grade, we had our our lockers were always just about the same lockers all the time throughout the whole school high school because our our uh homeroom was in the same position, so that's where they they'd put your locker at. And uh I remember, especially in the 11th and 12th grade, uh us guys would be standing outside the locker and we'd be talking about, you know, a year from now or maybe two years from now, we're gonna be in Vietnam. So, you know, that was So you guys saw it coming. We seen it coming. Yeah. Yeah, we seen it coming. And uh in fact, one of the one of the kids that uh had a well he was locker was quite close to me. He just lives right down the road from me. And we both wound up in Vietnam at the same time.

SPEAKER_03: 15:59

So now did you see each other when you were there?

SPEAKER_00: 16:02

No, we did not.

SPEAKER_03: 16:04

All right. Yep, so so you uh you uh get through high school then and graduate, and uh what what happens next?

SPEAKER_00: 16:13

What happens next is well I was uh still working at after I graduated from high school. I was then I got actually had a job at the gas station. Right. So I had a got a job at the gas station, and uh so we had customers that would come in all the time, and uh a man named uh Paul Oatley, he'd come in there and he said, you know, he said, they're hiring at Delta Airlines. He says, You want me to get you in at Delta Airlines? I said, well, he said, you you go, uh he gave me a name, he said where to go to. So I said, well, I can't be working in a gas station all, you know. So I want I wanted a regular job. So so uh I went and seen the uh station manager there in uh Detroit Metro Airport, and uh and uh they hired me right away. So so yeah. So they sent me down to Atlanta for an interview. Right. They put me on a plane, they sent me down to Atlanta for an interview, and I was kind of uh afraid about that, you know. It was like the first time I was well it wasn't, yeah, it was the first time I was ever on a plane. Very first time. That could be a little scary. So yeah, it was like I was all by myself. It was only I was only 18. Uh-huh. You know, I was 18, and uh, so but uh they hired me and uh and uh I started working at Delta, so uh and then uh I worked there for not quite two years and I got drafted. Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 17:51

And what was it what was it that what was that like to get your draft notice?

SPEAKER_00: 17:56

Well, when I every time I remember uh walking out the mailbox, I knew it was coming. Yeah. It was I I kind of dreaded it. So I kind of dread because I didn't want to I really didn't want to go into the service because my brother was in the he was in uh he was in the army uh in uh 65-66 and he went to Vietnam. Yeah. So while I was in high school, I would at uh I would actually while I was in school, I'd have study all, and I'd write him a letter right while I was in school. So I was writing him a letter while I was in school.

SPEAKER_03: 18:40

Oh, that's nice though.

SPEAKER_00: 18:41

So that's nice.

SPEAKER_03: 18:43

And uh so yeah, well so you knew you were like, uh, this probably isn't what I want to do. Yeah. Was it pretty hard for him?

SPEAKER_00: 18:51

Uh he was uh MP uh and he was stationed, he was he was in Saigon. Okay, and but uh you know what? I can actually say we when he got back, we never talked about it. Yeah, he didn't share any experiences at all, not one. My parents didn't ask him anything, and uh I didn't ask him anything.

SPEAKER_01: 19:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 19:18

Not a thing. It was like you didn't talk about it.

SPEAKER_03: 19:23

Just got home and got on with his life. Yep. Yeah. So here you are, you finally get your draft notice done. And um, how did it work? Did you just the the army picked you or did you pick the army? How did that how'd that work?

SPEAKER_00: 19:35

Well, no, I just here's what happened. I got my draft notice. I was supposed to uh go down to Fort Wayne, and that's uh that's in Detroit.

SPEAKER_03: 19:45

Right. So a lot of people don't know that, right?

SPEAKER_00: 19:47

Yeah, there was everybody thinks Fort Wayne is, yeah. Fort Wayne's right in this, right in the right in the city of Detroit. Uh-huh. And it was like uh, and uh you had to show up there and they give you a physical, they give you a physical, and uh uh and then uh past my physical, which you know I was in good I was in good shape. Yeah. You know, some of the well most of the guys were just about everybody looked about the same, you know. Everybody was like kind of there was a couple guys with long hair, but uh not too many, you know. We're and uh let's see. So they they said, well, we're gonna they took us into this room, and uh there was about I'm gonna say maybe a hundred guys, somewhere around a hundred guys. Somewhere, I don't know, it could have been less than that. I don't think it was more. And they took us into the room and they said uh there was a uh an officer. I imagine it was an officer. At that time I really didn't wasn't paying attention, you know. Right. But it was a military person. He said, we need, we need out of the you guys that are standing here, we need ten marines, he says. He says, there's any is there anybody wants to be a Marine here? And and uh not one person held up their hand. Not one, not one person. So he said, he just walked down the line, he walked down the line, and he counted to ten, and he said, You're a Marine. And then he went up, counted ten more. He says, You are now a Marine. So off after after he counted it ten times, there was ten Marines standing off to one side. They were now Marines.

SPEAKER_03: 21:49

It was just luck of the draw, huh?

SPEAKER_00: 21:52

So I didn't know, you know, yeah, but I just didn't uh I just didn't uh uh I I really didn't want to be in the service at all, really, but I I I just I had to I had to go and do my part, serve my country.

SPEAKER_03: 22:09

Now, did you leave right from Fort Wayne to basic training? Yeah, well how did that work? You got got your draft notice, you showed up and you went through the physical, you did all the selection. Did you leave like right right then?

SPEAKER_00: 22:24

Well, then they yeah. Yeah, left right there. And what we did is uh uh they put us on a bus to go to the airport.

SPEAKER_01: 22:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 22:35

Then they put us on all on it was like a greyhound bus, I imagine.

SPEAKER_01: 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:40

I can't really quite remember. It was a it was a nice, it was a nice bus, and they dropped us off at the airport. And they put one guy in charge. It was like there was about at that time they must have split us up or something. There was about I'm gonna say about 45 or 50 guys that they sp uh somehow they split up. And uh uh they put one guy in charge. And well, he hasn't he they we all raised our hands, you know, took the oath, and uh, and now now you are you are officially in the army. Well, they marched us on, well, we we got to the bus, and everybody's in civvies, civilian clothes, and you're carrying a little bag and you know, whatever. And uh uh all of a sudden we're walking down, we flew on United. I remember I was on United, and uh all of a sudden, once we got to the there was no security at all at that time. We just walked right through the airport, you walk up to the plane, and it was a plane that was just like it was specifically, I think it was just all militar it was just a military aircraft. Not a military aircraft, but uh it was a United aircraft, but it was just for the for the army guys to go, and they uh shipped us down to Fort Knox. But in the meantime, we lost two guys. Oh. So so so there was already two guys that decided to the you know, they went through the whole process and they we lost two guys. So we somewhere it was like we had 50 and we wound up at 48.

SPEAKER_03: 24:26

Somewhere between the bus and the plane, they ducked out.

SPEAKER_00: 24:30

We lost we lost two guys. Yeah. They kind of split. Yeah. Whatever happened to those guys, I don't know. So who knows?

SPEAKER_03: 24:37

So you get to Fort Knox?

SPEAKER_00: 24:39

So we get to Fort Knox, get to Fort Knox, and uh it was March, March 7th, I went into service. Uh-huh. So it was nasty, nasty cold, nasty cold, and we were just like, and it was like, well, we were old old wooden barracks. They weren't very uh weren't very nice, uh, according to what my living conditions at home were, you know. So well, that's to be expected, right? And yeah, and so we're it was always like I can still remember that. We had to hurry up and get to this spot, and then we just waited and waited and waited. Hurry up and wait. And then I stayed down there for maybe two days, maybe three days, and all of a sudden they figured out there was no room for us. So then they loaded us on the bus. Uh there was another bus, I'm gonna say 50 or whatever could get on a greyhound bus. Yeah. And they hauled us down to Fort Jackson, South Carolina. So then I went from Fort Knox to Fort Jackson and uh uh all of us guys on a bus. Didn't we didn't know anybody, you know, you didn't know anybody. Right. You just like, and uh I just kind of went, we went from uh I what I can remember is we went from it was like wintertime in Fort Knox, and we started driving south, and we were driving through all these hilly areas, and we kept it kept getting nicer and nicer, and then all of a sudden we got down there, it was green. Everything was green. It was summer again, right? It was like, oh it was fine with me. Yeah because it was like, hey, it's warm weather. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 26:33

And how long was how long was uh boot camp? Remember?

SPEAKER_00: 26:37

Boot camp was eight weeks.

SPEAKER_03: 26:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 26:39

Eight weeks.

SPEAKER_03: 26:39

Talk to me a little bit about what that basically was.

SPEAKER_00: 26:41

So when we arrived in South Carolina, it was like nighttime. It was like it was probably about eight o'clock at night. It was dark. It was dark. And uh we were driving along this strip. That's why I can remember it was a straight road, and the bus would stop, the bus would stop, and they'd call out your name. And uh and we dropped off three guys or four guys, and then we'd go to the next stop. We'd and they'd call out some more names, you know, whatever, four, five, six names. They'd call out those names. Those guys would get off the bus. So then it came finally my name come up, my name came up, and you know, uh uh got off the bus and there was a there was a sergeant there ready to meet us, and he says, and now we're we're in, you know, you're actually in training, then not training, but you're gonna go to your to your uh basic training uh barracks and whatever. So one thing about the army is like you had you had they made sure that you ate three times a day. Yes. You ate three times a day. So eight o'clock at night was way past way past uh meal time. So so they they did not like that we got there that late. So they took us into the mess hall. They took us into the mess hall. March there was only about there was only about I'd say there was there was only two tables. We had right that that time there was they had round tables in our mess hall. Four guys would sit at a table. Well, they were they were kind of angry that we got there that late. They had to keep the mess hall open.

SPEAKER_03: 28:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 28:53

So we went through the line, got a plate of food, and my first meal in the army, my first meal, they made us eat underneath the table, not on the table. We ate underneath the table.

SPEAKER_03: 29:09

Like it was your fault you got there so late, right?

SPEAKER_00: 29:12

Yeah. So well, I thought I thought that was hey, and and we you you just kind of shoved it down and off you went to the barracks. Yeah. So it was an experience. I'm in the army now. Yeah. And you do what you tell, they do it, you whatever they tell you to do, you better do it.

SPEAKER_03: 29:32

Right. Right. So that's how that's how boot camp was for you. Follow orders. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 29:36

Follow orders.

SPEAKER_03: 29:37

Yeah. Well, and you you've been a worker your whole life, really, so it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00: 29:43

Uh it was it would. I just thought it was actually I I just it was kind of it was kind of funny to me. Uh-huh. But I didn't talk back to no, I never talked back to a sergeant or to an officer. Never. Never. No, never did.

SPEAKER_03: 29:59

Plenty of people that did though, weren't there?

SPEAKER_00: 30:00

Yes, there was people that did. Yep. No. So you don't, you don't, you don't mess with those guys.

SPEAKER_03: 30:07

No. Uh-uh. No. And so you when you graduated boot camp, did you go right on to your AIT or your training?

SPEAKER_00: 30:16

So that we just went right across the street, uh-huh. Right across the street to inf infantry training then.

SPEAKER_03: 30:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 30:24

So I was a loving Bravo. That's in uh infantry. So you went to more advanced training.

SPEAKER_03: 30:32

Uh-huh. Yeah. And did you stay with the group that you were in basic training with?

SPEAKER_00: 30:37

No, they kind of were like that. Everybody had their different MOSs, you know. Okay. So everybody had different MOSs. So you we were, I don't remember, somewhere in basic training, we did testing. Uh huh. We did some kind of testing and they'd and everybody uh you know you had to pass the basics. You had to, you know, you run your mile. Do your push-ups, do your uh pull-ups, and uh learn how to march and uh whatever and uh and uh so then you went then you went to uh uh infantry training. Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 31:15

And then uh do you recall how long infantry training was?

SPEAKER_00: 31:19

I think that was another eight weeks, too. Okay. It was another eight weeks.

SPEAKER_03: 31:23

So unless you learned what, like tactics and things like that.

SPEAKER_00: 31:26

Yeah, we learned how to shoot shoot different we learned how to shoot the M16, we learned how to shoot uh uh set M79 and then uh M60, and then uh the rocket propelled launcher. We learned how to shoot that. And uh, you know, it's like uh throwing grenades, live grenades, you learned how to do that. And uh it was like uh they kept the eye on you that because there were some guys that never shot a you know, you know, shot a rifle or a shotgun or whatever. No, I was used to hunting. My I grew up hunting all my my my dad was a rabbit hunter, so I used to go rabbit hunting with him. Rabbit hunting and pheasant hunting. Oh. So we added beagles and and uh so I was used to, you know, there's a a rifle is a is a is a lot different than a shotgun, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 32:26

Yeah. So so you uh did you so did you enjoy that part though?

SPEAKER_00: 32:31

Was that enjoyable for you or well I just it was I don't know if I I don't think you'd call it enjoyable, but uh it was like I knew I had to do it. Right, you know, so I just I just did it, you know. Okay. So, you know, it was like I just tried to do the best I could. I wasn't uh I just I was just a marksman shot. I didn't some guys were really good at uh, I guess you have to be more steady or you know. I can remember us shooting though BB guns. We'd shoot BB guns at, and somebody would throw up a like a little round disc, and you could actually hit that thing. Wow. You know. So they were trying to get us to to be able to react to uh you know to uh quick movement. Right. Yeah, you know, but uh I never tried that after that.

SPEAKER_03: 33:32

Well, we go out in the backyard afterwards, we'll we'll see how that we'll see if we if we still have the same reaction time that we used to have. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 33:41

So you you uh you get through um your infantry training and so then at the end, by the time I got through infantry training, so you were kind of I was kind of like in a uh you got to know some guys and become friends with guys. You know, I call them, I don't call them friends anymore, I call them buddies. Yeah. You had a buddy. And uh now this we were talking each, you know, we're neither of us wanted, you know, we didn't want to go to Vietnam. That's uh so and uh and my my parents didn't want me to go to Vietnam. Right. So they already had one boy that was sent there and he made it back. And and uh so I said, well, uh he said, you know what, let's go to NCO school, and that'll give us some more time in the States. So that's exactly I signed up for NCO school.

SPEAKER_03: 34:39

Right. And for people listening, NCO's non-commissioned officer, so that's like the sergeant.

SPEAKER_00: 34:44

You'd be have once you got out of that training another eight weeks, it would be you'd be a sergeant right off the bat. Wow. You'd be a sergeant. So you would go from a private to a sergeant in a matter of uh, let's see, eight, eight, and eight. That'd be twenty-four weeks. Yeah, that's pretty quick. Yeah, pretty quick. So, what was NCO school like? So NCO school was oh, I hated NCO school. Oh no. I hated it. I actually I I it was like it was like basic training all over again. Running, running, running, you know, and it was kind of like they took us down to uh uh Fort Benning, and we actually uh I was at Fort Benning, uh, and uh they took us to the barracks, a bunch of us guys, and right on the building that we were going in, it says condemned. It says condemned. So they gave us a bunch of pallets and hammers and saws that to fix the hole in the building. So I was right into that. Yeah. Because I kind of like work. That's right up your alley there. Yeah. So it had a old, it had an old uh uh cold-fired uh hot water system for the not the not so much the heat the building, it was just for taking showers and stuff. So I can still remember that. And uh it was like it was like it was from uh World War II, yeah. You know, where all the guys went from World War II. So they had the same uh same conditions, but but that that building was condemned, you know, when we went into it. Right. By the time you got there. We fixed it up though. Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_03: 36:46

The next guy's coming in, right?

SPEAKER_00: 36:48

Yeah. So anyway, then uh about halfway, three-quarters of the way through, I uh went into the office. I said, I said, I'm done. I said, I'm done. Just send me the Vietnam. I said, I'm done. I said, I I don't I don't want I don't want no more training. So then they made me, they said, okay, you know, we'll do what, you know, you're not gonna go to the training. I said, I'm done with training. Uh so they made me a truck driver. They made me a truck driver for about two weeks. So that was a truck. I said, I was the only one, there wasn't too many guys. Somehow they ra they asked when I was uh, I think I was in the NCO school, and they they uh we were out in formation one day and they said, is there any anybody that can drive a truck here? A deuce and a quarter, that's what we called them.

SPEAKER_01: 37:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 37:58

And uh and it's uh it's got a clutch in. I said, I I I was well, I wasn't gonna raise my hand, but I raised my hand, you know. I said that I raised my hand so that I was a truck driver for a little while. I said, hey, that's better than that's better than uh being in the infantry. Right. But that didn't last too long. Two weeks. That didn't last too long. Uh-huh. So then I got uh eventually I got my orders and uh uh you were to uh they sent you back home. They sent you back home, and uh uh I was home for, I don't know, a week or something like that. Then I was supposed to re report to Vietnam. So my my b my dad was didn't want me to go. He wanted me to go to Canada. I said, what you know, what am I gonna do in Canada? You know? Right. I can't leave my I can't leave you guys, you know. So I stayed home. I stayed home, and this was right around, now this time it was right around uh December I was home. So it was from March I went into service. Now it's December. It's December. So I stayed home. Then there was talk. There was talk. You know, all the guys talked together. You know, we're all going, we're all going to Vietnam. We're all going to Vietnam, you know. So he says, well There's just talk there's just a lot of talk, you know. What what what you should do. So so uh I wanted to stay stay with my dad to my uh my dad's birthday was on uh the uh tenth of December and it was uh somewhere before the tenth of December. So I was supposed to report uh right around the end of November. Okay. And uh so uh I I stayed home some extra days. So I was basically AWAL. Right. I was AWA. Yeah. So then I got I got uh I got on a plane at Metro Airport, flew out to Oakland, flew out to Oakland, and uh uh so I met a guy at the airport, he was another he said, God, I don't know what they're gonna do with me. He says, I'm a couple hours late. I said, don't worry about it. I'm 12 days late. I says, so I said, I'm 12 days late. I said, you know where we're going, don't you? We're going to Vietnam. So, so so anyway, they they had about a hundred guys, somewhere around a hundred guys, we had to, we had to uh stand in formation, and one by one guy had to go into the office and report to an officer. Yeah. Sleute the officer, go down, sit down, and and they give us article 15. So I got my first article 15. Pretty early on. Pretty early on. Yeah. And they said, we're gonna fine you for being 12 days late. We're gonna fine you$3 a day. And I thought, wow, what's the deal? Right.$36. I got to stay home for for 12 extra days.

SPEAKER_03: 41:54

Well, you got to see your dad's birthday. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:57

So, yeah. So, so I I stayed home till then. And then I so then we were out in formation, and uh uh there was one song that kept playing over and over again. And that was we had like a there was like a jukebox there. Yeah. And some uh some uh you could go and it was like a little, I I guess you'd call it a PX. And uh you get a Coke there or something, and and there was one song that the guys kept playing over and over again. It was no other song played, and that was uh Leaving on a Jet Plane.

SPEAKER_03: 42:45

Oh, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 42:46

It was by uh John Denver at the time, uh-huh. And uh the mamas and the papas also sang it. Yeah. Leaving on the jet plane. And they just put the guys just kept playing that over and over again, leaving on the jet plane. So I stayed there uh about a day, about a day or maybe, no, I think it was the day. And uh we went through, we went through, uh, got some more uniforms and whatever, and uh, and when we were at, that was at Oakland, and we were going through there, and the guys that were coming back from Vietnam were on top, were on the second story, and the guys that were going were on the first story, and we were crossing paths. We were crossing paths. I kind of like looked up at them. I said, Oh, those guys look a lot older than me. I said, they all look kind of weathered. Yeah. They all look weathered and stuff. At that time they were, they were coming home and they're they came home in fatigues at that time, you know. And whatever, because when you were over there, uh uh all the uniforms got washed so many times that they were like very w very weathered. Right. They were kind of a a different kind of a green, different kind of a green. Kind of faded, huh? And faded and yeah. So it was kind of like I looked at those guys, they looked, wow, are they they look a lot older than me, you know. And we were only like maybe a year apart, you know so and uh so we got on a got on a bus, got on a bus from after that, and uh by this time it was nighttime again. It was night, and they loaded us all on a bus and and got on the got on the road, and all of a sudden uh the bus driver pulls off the road and he opens the door. He opens the door up, and uh he stood up, he says, I'm gonna take this bus right up to plain side, he says. He said, We're you're not you're not gonna go into the terminal or nothing. You're gonna go, I'm gonna drive it right up to the where the where the stairs is to go up to the aircraft. He says, if any anybody wants to get off right now, I don't know a thing, he says. And the guys kind of looked at each other and uh nobody got off. Nobody got off. So he shut the door and we were on our way. Wow. And uh went to plain side and uh got on the got on the I don't know what kind of plane it was. I don't remember the uh the airline that I flew on. Yeah. So now was that did they take you directly to Right to it was right, it was it went out of Oakland and Oakland and we flew to uh we flew to uh Japan. Okay. Yeah. Then from Japan we stopped there, fuel stop, and then from Japan to Vietnam.

SPEAKER_03: 46:28

And where did you where did you land in Vietnam?

SPEAKER_00: 46:31

Uh Benoit. Okay. Benoit.

SPEAKER_03: 46:33

What was what was that like?

SPEAKER_00: 46:35

That was like uh, you know, the guys on the plane, uh it was a full pl you know, it was a full plane. They, you know, they loaded up every seat, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 46:48

And uh I can still remember the flight attendants looked pretty nice, you know. They were all nice looking girls, and the guys, you know, were all young guys. Yeah. And uh uh there was like a lot of talk, you know, and laughing and stuff like that. So and uh all of a sudden the uh pilot made an announcement and we're coming in for a landing, you know, you know, and uh there was not enough windows to look out of that the guys were trying to look out to the landscape and see what it looked like. I can still remember, I said, damn, there's nothing. There's all these holes down there filled with water. I said, there's nothing left of the place. There's nothing, nothing left of the place. I said, there's nothing but holes. That was from B-52 bombers that bombed over the the entrance to the airport, not the entrance, but uh pathway to the airport. Yeah. And uh we landed at the airport and, you know, uh got off the plane, and it was like, it was like they opened the doors up and uh uh the plane was air conditioned on the way over there, you know, it was like very comfortable. It was like walking into an oven. It was like, I mean, it was just like the heat just and when they opened the doors up and we started walking down, there was a there was a group of guys, well there was a there was like a little, it was all uh just a building, but there was no windows in it or nothing. It was all clear. And there was nothing but cheer and a roar, a roar of of uh other guys, that was their bird that they were going home on. Yeah. Their freedom bird. We called it the freedom bird. And and then they said, you, you, and you go unload the plane. And I was one of those you've. Because I worked at the airport, so I was used to doing that. Right. So that's what I that was my job. I was a loader at the airport. Uh we unloaded all the duffel bag, unloaded all the duffel bag, went into uh, went into uh there there were some more buses that met us there. And then uh I can remember the buses, it was like uh we put our duffel bags kind of underneath and uh there was no windows in the in the in the buses. Absolutely no windows. And there was this there was heavy like uh uh like a mesh uh wire that went up where the windows were. So well I kind of figured out that what that was about, so nobody could throw a grenade in there, you know, and wipe out the whole bus. Right. Yeah, so so that from there I went to uh we went to uh you know, like some barracks, and uh then uh what you had to do is uh uh we they gave us little assignments to do, and I did I did KP for the officers, Messhaw, and I I couldn't believe it. I was I said, well, this ain't bad, you know. You know, the officers have they had round tables over there and they had tableclaws with flowers on them. I couldn't I said, oh my gosh, I couldn't believe this.

SPEAKER_03: 50:49

Like a fancy restaurant.

SPEAKER_00: 50:50

Yeah, it was like it's it was nice. Yeah, yeah. So then every day we'd we stand out in line, and uh uh they you waited till your name was called out. And when your name was called out, finally uh a couple days down the line, my name was called out. He said, you're going to the you're going to the first calve. So that's that's where I went. So off I they put me on a they put me on a uh helicopter. I flew out to to uh a firebase. It was fire base Jamie. It was firebase Jamie, and I stayed there uh a couple days. And I remember my fur my very first night I stayed there. Uh I slept in a foxhole, and there was there were so many mosquitoes there that I finally got a a handkerchief or something, put it over my face because the mosquitoes are just tearing me up.

SPEAKER_03: 51:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 51:59

So then they said uh uh they called up and the officer came up to me, officer or sergeant, I still wasn't quite sure about anything in the service then at that time. And you didn't, you just listened to everybody, and they said, Dargo, you're going out to the field tomorrow. So uh so I went out to the field on Christmas morning. On Christmas morning, so I went out to the field when the guys got logged. We called it getting logged. Logged is when you're uh getting the company was getting resupplied out in the field. Okay. So, yeah, so we called it logged. And uh and uh went out to the field and I was like I was like kind of r very scared. And uh got off the chopper and uh uh uh got with my squad uh because I was uh one of the what they call them FNGs.

SPEAKER_03: 53:10

And yeah And if you know, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 53:13

Yeah. And uh so I remember each guy uh there was about eight guys in the squad. Maybe usually about eight, nine. And uh so I had my backpack already, you know, it was all packed and I had everything I needed. And all of us there was this one guy would pass me, he says, here, carry this. And another guy would say, here, carry this. And another guy would say, here, carry this. And then you had, and then uh by the time I had all this stuff in my backpack, I couldn't even get off the ground or it weighed more than you did, didn't it? Oh my god. Then we had to go hump.

SPEAKER_03: 54:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 54:04

So, yeah, so then just a few days later, it wasn't too much, and uh I was walking point. I was walking point right from I walked point. Really? So uh I was pretty good at uh I was always good at observation. I could always see what was ahead of me. When I was pheasant hunting or rabbit hunting, a lot of times we I always spotted rabbits when they were sitting down. You you could see them sitting, I I would spot them. Or pheasants, sometimes you spot them actually sitting, thinking that. So I was pretty good at you know, uh doing stuff like that. They give me my machete and we're hacking through the jungle. We did that every day, every day. So then I went from there, and then I stayed like that for, I don't know, um about a month probably, and then they uh they gave me the radio to carry. They gave me the radio. So I was with this, I was with the squad leader at that time. So I really didn't like carrying radio either, because that that also, not only did you have a backpack, now you got a radio that weighed, I'm gonna say, I don't know, maybe weighed 15 pounds or something like that. Yeah, they were pretty big and heavy. They were very big and this long antenna. Yeah. The antenna, I didn't like that idea at all. So, but hey, they I did what I was told to do. So, and after that, it was like uh uh and you keep progressing. Then I was carrying the uh then after that I I did that for about two months, I think. And then I they uh they said you're gonna carry the M79 from now on, not not the M16.

SPEAKER_03: 56:04

And the M79's with the great grenade launcher. It was a grenade launcher, right.

SPEAKER_00: 56:08

Okay. So you you had you had uh and then it was a short little weapon, but uh the rounds were quite heavy. Yeah. We had shotgun rounds, and it was called a shotgun round and actually a grenade round round. And you had to kind of in the jungle, it's pretty tough shooting those babies. You had to shoot the shotgun round if you did shoot.

SPEAKER_01: 56:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 56:36

You didn't very s because the the cover of the the terrain, you couldn't shoot the weapon up hardly, you know, because of the branches and whatever.

SPEAKER_03: 56:48

Just bounce back at you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 56:50

Right exactly. Yep. So after after that, uh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03: 56:57

As uh So were you were you with the squad the whole time you were there then?

SPEAKER_00: 57:04

You know, I was yep. Well, well, believe it or not, is like every little while something happens to somebody.

SPEAKER_01: 57:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 57:14

Something happens. Somebody, somebody we had guys that literally passed out, you know, walking, uh, walking every day. Hump, I we called it humping. Right.

SPEAKER_03: 57:27

Well, because you're humping all that stuff on your back and everything else.

SPEAKER_00: 57:31

We go up and down, up and down. Yeah. And then we walked in a single file about somewhere around eight to ten feet apart, you know. Eight to ten feet apart.

SPEAKER_03: 57:44

Now you're just looking for the enemy at this point?

SPEAKER_00: 57:46

Yes, we were just just looking for for the we called them the gooks. Yep. Yeah. So we're just looking and uh we'd stop and then uh uh and look for trails. We'd look for trails. And we never went down a trail if we found a trail. And then we'd set up by the trail. So you'd set up by a trail and then put your uh uh claymore mines out. Right. And uh whatever.

SPEAKER_03: 58:21

You basically set up for an ambush then. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 58:24

Yep. So but every night we sat up in the we set uh or set up in a circle the whole company. There's somewhere around uh nine ninety to a hundred guys, including everybody, you know. And you'd each squad would would be uh uh eight guys would squad in the next squad next to you, and there was four squads to a platoon, and there was four platoons to a company. And then uh the the officer and uh first sergeant would always kind of be in the middle. Right. They had they had different, and they had uh radio man too, and they had uh I always remembered uh one of the guys always had to have this big book with them, kind of a book. They kept track of all uh who was out in the field, you know, you know, whatever. They kept pretty they kept pretty good records that way. I always thought.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:08

So yeah, so when you set up these ambushes, did you ever have an occasion to actually like encounter the enemy?

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:18

So after a while, my squad alone, I don't know if it's other squads, but they changed their strategy. The uh army did. Or the first cav, I don't know who it was who. And they had squads with they'd drop us off all by ourselves, one squad. That would be eight guys out in the jungle out in the middle of nowhere, and and and we'd set up for an ambush.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:55

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:56

Or we would close a fire base. We sat one day we sat and we closed the fire base and they took all the well, they took all the artillery pieces off the fire base, and they everybody left the fire base, and then they said, somehow my squad got picked to uh just go go out there. We sat in the bamboo for about four days. We sat out in the bamboo for four days, just looking at that that flat area out there, and all of a sudden, all of a sudden, uh There they come. There's two of them come up, come out up from the other side. They were probably looking for food, you know, because I don't think they were very well fed. Yeah you know. And uh so that was at the time I was still carrying the radio. And uh we we called it in. We called it into the I don't I don't remember the the base.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:09

Yeah, like your higher headquarters. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:11

And out comes a out comes a Cobra helicopter. And and uh uh Cobra helicopter, he came uh kind of like down, come he was coming down, and the these two guys were out in the middle. They they got caught right out in the middle. It was like it was like probably three, four hundred feet across this open area at least, maybe five hundred. They got caught right on the they were right on the berm. And uh and uh these sons of guns were like this helicopter started beating down on them, and they s they stood up there, they stood up there shooting at the helicopter with their with their AKs. And it was like, and the the guy missed them. He missed them. He completely missed them. And they ran the wrong way. They ran right towards us. So so we took them out. So the M's, the guy that was uh, his name was Pork Chop. We had uh we had uh nicknames for everybody there. His name uh he was the black guy, uh huh. Porkjop, I got along with him really well. And uh, and uh he he was a real sturdy black guy. I mean he was he was muscular, and they gave him the M60 because that was a heavy weapon. And uh he opened up on him and and then got him and we didn't do nothing. We didn't do nothing. And then they told us, they said, now you have to walk two clicks and for pickup. So I could I still couldn't believe well they I don't know if they didn't on they didn't want us to know what but they knew if these guys were if there was somebody on the other side, they you know, they knew where where we were at. Right. So but we had to go to our back and walk a couple clicks and uh and uh for pickup. So then got our compass out and walked two clicks, and then because there wasn't too many open areas where a helicopter could get in to pick you up. You know, it was like it was like a lot of jungle, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:51

Yeah, they kind of had to guide you to the right spot. Yeah. So yeah. So you flew in, you encountered these two guys, and then you just walk back and fly back out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:00

Yeah, so it was like that. I don't know how many times, how many flights I took. I took at least, I know I was on I got an air metal. You had to have 25 flights, and I got I was on more than a lot more than 25 flights, you know, and uh they call them uh air assault, air assaults, or I don't know, I'm not sure quite sure what they called them, but but you know, you were uh you were going from one spot to the next spot, you know. Well that's what we did all the time, you know. Some sometimes we'd uh uh there was one squad and sometimes they'd pick up the whole comp we a whole company would fly in.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:46

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:48

But when uh we had uh we were in another area, and then uh see that was then I was I was walking point then. I was still walking point. All these and we flew into an area, and uh the grass was about at least two foot high, maybe three foot high. It was really grassy, and uh and it was high. And uh and about four to five helicopters, maybe six, would land at a time at this uh this location, and we waited till the whole company got in, and then we kind of worked our way to the one side, and well, we got to the one side, and uh I was walking point, and all of a sudden there was holes around the whole perimeter of that area. They dug foxholes around the whole open area, and I just thought to myself, you know, I don't know if they took surveillance to this area or what, but we could have got wiped out because they would have been in holes and we were just on flat ground with nothing uh, you know. So I walked a little bit further and all of a sudden I spotted AK-47. It was in one of these holes, and uh called a sergeant over there, and we were looking at it. We thought it might be booby-trapped. Yeah. And uh kept looking at it, looking at it, and it was like, well, they made the choice, they stood back and they said, Well, you go, you go get it. You go get the AK. And uh it looked okay to me, so I got I got it. And uh we walked to just we just walked a little bit further, we're just and all of a sudden there's this guy right in front of us. He was he was running the other way, you know, another gook. And uh uh the whole squad opened up on him. And I think that was his weapon, somehow somehow he got caught. He got caught out of, you know, he was probably what we used to call him a forward observer. Uh he's looking for they'd go back and tell, you know, their uh NVA, you know, a group of us just landed in and which direction they're headed, you know. So he got caught in a rock without his weapon, and uh uh so uh that's just the way it was. That's how it was over there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:54

So how how long were you there?

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:56

How long was I there?

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:58

Yeah, how long were you in Vietnam?

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:00

I was there 11 months and five days, yeah. Yeah. I got a 25-day early, early out. Uh uh President Nixon uh started uh winding winding w the war down.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:20

Yeah, they were having the peace talks, right? That kind of thing. Yeah. So what year what year would this have been?

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:26

What year?

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:27

It was in 70. Okay, 1970. But I was in bef before that, after that, or uh I was uh our whole uh I don't know if it was the whole first cab, but it was 35,000 of the first cab. That's a lot of guys, let me tell you. We all flew into Cambodia at the same time. Uh I never seen so many helicopters in my life. It was like it was like, and we flew into this area that was bombed out by V V-52s. It looked, it looked, it was just a disaster area. Yeah. And uh there were certain helicopters that were being shot at yet. You know, taking, taking uh, you know, taken rounds from the ground, you know, as we were coming in. Not our helicopter, though. So I was uh very fortunate at that. So we landed in uh Cambodia and uh we were there for 25 days. 25 days, and that's where my uh my friend got killed.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:40

Yeah, what what happened? If you don't mind telling me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:44

We were uh uh again, my squad, or our squad, uh I was uh I at that time I was carrying, I was what by that time I was walk and drag. That would be just about the last position. And we landed and uh we went into a rubber plantation, and first time I ever seen rubber trees in my life. It was uh they were all in a row, it was quite neat, you know, like like maybe an apple orchard, but very big trees, and uh bare ground. We set up in there, and then uh they told us we have to run a patrol out in this direction, and uh so my squad went in that direction, and uh and uh we walked uh out about I don't know how far we walked, and uh we were crossing a little, we were just crossing a little stream. It was like it was about eight, ten foot wide with about two foot of water in it, maybe. And uh we were just about to cross it and they opened up on us. And uh they shot uh M s the M60 gunner and shot him right in the chest. Shot him in the chest. And he shot him right in the heart and uh he fired his weapon for a few seconds, he passed out. We all kind of scrambled to get up closer. There was a lot of yelling, a lot of yelling and screaming. And uh one guy, he was a southern guy, I can't quite remember I can't remember his name, but it was the first time that he was in contact, and he curled up in a little ball. He actually just so I grabbed his M79, I grabbed it and grabbed his ammo and got up into the small little creek or stream and uh started shooting grenades that way. And uh uh and then we decided to pull back. What are we gonna what are we gonna do? So and then uh well Kendall was dead, so we had to go back. We drug him back, and we had by that time we had to go across the open field. There was an open field. And one of the guys spotted a sniper up in the tree, and uh uh we took him out, and uh, but we still had to cross this opening, which was about it wasn't much of an opening, maybe 150 feet, but it yours seemed like a long way.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:11

That's a yeah, 150 feet can be like the body.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:14

Yeah, and I st I still have dreams, I had dreams about this for years, that um we're going across this opening and dragging this guy, and and uh I'm yelling, but nothing's coming out of my mouth. Nothing's coming out. I'm yelling as hard as I can, nothing got to the other side, made it. And uh we got Kendall back to the to the uh rubber plantation or rubber trees is I don't want to call it a plantation. And then put somehow there was a there was a body bag there already. So they delivered a body bag out to the to the that area in between the time we're in between the time we were going there, out on patrol, to the time we got back, put him in the body bag, and then we just sat there and we sat there and we sat there. Waited for another helicopter to come in to take him away. So I just I said, what's this for?

unknown: 1:15:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:36

You know, what is it for? You know, or talking to the guy uh one minute, and next minute he's dead. So, because we were close together. We were in our squad, we're buddies, you know. So, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:53

Did that make it difficult because you just never know, you just you don't know what's gonna happen, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:59

You didn't know one from one day to the next. Right. From one day to the next.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:02

Or when it was gonna be your turn.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:04

When it's gonna be so when we were over there, when we'd get logged, that's resupplied, uh every once in a while a chaplain would fly in. And that was a military chaplain. He was dressed in fatigues, and uh uh he'd have a small he had to go around all over because uh, you know, he went up to each squad. We'd we'd be in a little huddle, and we'd say some prayers together. And uh uh he was a Catholic chapel chaplain, so he'd service communion.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:47

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:48

And I know all the guys weren't Catholic, you know, but they all took communion.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:56

Yeah, what's the old saying? There's no atheists in a fox hall.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:59

When when you were out there, uh you prayed to God that you were gonna make it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:04

Yeah. Yeah. Every day.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:06

Every day. Yep. So every day I put a little, I had a little calendar in my uh in my uh I kept kept uh I had a wallet that was in my ammo box. My ammo box was an M60 ammo box. I kept all my paper, paper or my writing paper and my letters that I received from home, some toothbrush, whatever, just in that ammo box so it wouldn't get wet because it was always raining over there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:41

Everything was wet, right? Everything was wet.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:44

We lived in miserable conditions. Yeah. So there was days where was there there was like one time I was out in the field, we were out in the field for 25 straight days without taking a shower. Believe me, you're gross. Yeah. You're gross.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:01

But everybody was anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:02

So everybody was gross. Yeah, so I tried to keep clean, but you know, but if we'd if we'd find uh sometimes we uh we ran out of water and we'd dip our canteens into uh uh B-52 craters that were full of water, and we needed water, so then you'd give uh you put a tablet in it, and it really it was wet, but it was sure gross. Uh it tasted just awful.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:36

Yeah, would you put like iodine in it or something?

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:39

The little tablet that you put in it. Yeah, we kept them. Yeah. So you had to have water. Uh I carried five or six quarts of water on me for three days. And believe me, that's not a lot of water when uh for for a three or four-day period.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:00

And then some days we didn't get logged because we didn't, we weren't in the right position to get logged. So it was uh it was uh every day we did the same thing. We humped, set up, dug holes, hump, set up, and dug holes, you know. Like Groundhog's Day. Yeah, yeah. So it was the same thing every day. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:27

And you did that for 11 months and five days.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:30

Yeah. So I was so glad. I was so glad when uh uh well, I didn't really know I didn't know what was happening over here, I to tell you the truth.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:42

And some of the guys that were over there back in the river, you know, they they could play music and stuff like that, and they they kind of knew what was happening. But uh if you were in the infantry, uh, you were out in the boon, we called it the boonies.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:01

We didn't have no radios, you know, like transistor radios, you know, there was none of that. There was just like, you know, you're you're just lucky to uh uh get a letter from home that we let we you would re- you uh I used to reread letters from home. Mom would send me uh maybe a little clipping on how the Red Wings were doing or how the tigers were doing, you know, keeping me informed uh of the sports, you know. The important things. Yeah, the important things. Yeah. And uh the three things we talked about most, uh uh there was like I was uh I still keep in contact with one of the guys, his name is Elliott Metro, and uh he was from Pennsylvania, and we called each other all the time. Every once in a while we call each other. Yeah. And us, and there was one guy, his my sergeant was Sergeant Stackpole, and we just called him Stack. We didn't go by sergeant over there or officer or whatever. We just called each other by nicknames. His name was Stackpole, but we called him Stack. And uh uh we would talk uh about sports, about what kind of car we're gonna get when we get back home. That was important, and sleeping between two clean sheets.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:40

It was like so. Did you have a nickname when you were there? After a while, my nickname was uh I don't know if I should say that. It's perfectly okay. And they called me uh they called me Lifer, uh-huh, and then they said fucking lifer. And that's because that's when I made sergeant over there. Right. And then they called me because I was not too many guys made sergeant without maybe being there. Uh you know, I made sergeant at 10 months. Yeah. So it was like I went from, you know, uh from having Article 15 on my record to a sergeant. Yeah, and but I didn't get uh I didn't get wounded and uh uh I didn't get sick, you know. I went over there at 178 and I came home at 145.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:52

So and uh so when you were coming back, you were one of those weathered old guys, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:59

Uh yeah. Yeah, yeah. But uh but then we were on uh one of our fire bases. We set up a this is the this was all before we went into Cambodia. We we always worked within probably, I'm gonna say the first my well the first cav, probably all of the first cav, but our company, we worked within probably a half a mile of Cambodia the whole time. We were right along the border.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:35

So we set up a fire base, and it was fire base Atkinson, and uh uh we were there, it was like they flew in all these bulldozers and uh artillery pieces, and we were we were building a fire base, and we filled sandbags, and and uh the the distance between uh the distance between the uh the berm and uh wire was not very much. You know, not very much. And we were we were absolute we look, we we were so dirty when we were doing this because it was we were sweating and there was helicopters coming in all the time, blowing dust. I got a picture of myself. I almost looked like a black guy. Yeah. That's how dirty I was. I got a picture of it. So the talk was is that the talk was is that we're gonna get hit. We're gonna get hit. And and uh I was on guard duty that night and went to bed. Not not bed, but I had an early guard duty, and it was just dark. I took my shoes off, took my boots off, to air my feet out, and all of a sudden I heard these rockets coming in. It was like they make sounds, you know, like a like a whistling sound kind of. Rockets were coming in, and all of a sudden all hell broke loose. And it was completely dark, and all of a sudden there uh rockets were landed right around me. And luckily uh we fought half the night, and there was helicopters coming and going all night because of we were running out of ammo. And w when we got it come to then a helicopter crashed right in front of me, and he was within, I'm gonna say he was in fifty feet of fifty feet of this. He crashed. They were they were taking uh they were taking uh hits from uh uh one of their big guns. And uh the guy, I don't know if it was the pilot, I think it was one of the pilots. He he jumped out and the helicopter was kind of a mess where the blade was wobbling. And he if he would have just stayed in that position, he would have probably made it. But he ran towards us berm and that blade hit him right in the head. I mean it hit him right in the head. He was he was dead instantly, yeah, you know. So we were debating whether Yellin should we go get him, and he wasn't he didn't move at all. The other guys made it in, but just the one guy didn't make over the berm. And uh we woke up we didn't wake up in the morning, we we stayed up all night and uh it was morning time and uh when daylight come we were kinda in charge over there. At night time they were in charge and uh there was sixty bodies laying in front of us. They killed eight of us and twenty-five guys were wounded right around me. So I was a lucky guy.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:36

One of the lucky guys. And I often wondered, it was like why why was it them and not me? Right. But so then they had us going out and searched the bodies. Search the bodies. And uh we took a couple prisoners, there was a couple prisoners, and then some of the guys wanted to shoot 'em. And one of the guys he kept saying something over and over again in Vietnamese. We didn't understand him. And all of a sudden it came to us he he wanted water. He was he was he wanted water. Yeah. So we give him a canteen of water. And uh uh they wanted us to go search the bodies. I went out and you know, took your took your M sixteen uh well I took a M sixteen at that time when I went out there. I was c carrying M79. But uh I couldn't go through the bodies. And uh one of the guys opened up the guy's shirt pocket. He had a picture of his girlfriend.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:02

This is the NVA. Yeah. He was they were they were just young guys like us. They had girlfriends, wives, and families. We didn't know each other and were trying to kill each other.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:16

So so we lost we lost a third of our company, about a third. Twenty-five guys were wounded, eight guys were killed, and uh uh uh then all of a sudden uh there was a uh I see a big Chinook helicopter coming in and they were bringing in a bulldozer. They were bringing in a bulldozer to dig a mass grave. Right. Well, luckily I didn't have to do that, you know. And then they said to us, uh, suit up, we're getting ready, we're moving out. Now, I just thought to myself, look, they we just lost a third of our company, and we're still moving out. The guys that were left, and we walked off that firebase, and we're out in the jungle again. Now, I guess they brought another company in to secure that firebase. I'm sure they did.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30:29

They must have.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:30

Yeah, so but uh I didn't know. We never went back to the firebase again. No, never went back to it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30:36

It's kind of incredible that you went through all of that and then it was just on to the next thing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:40

Yeah, it's just like yeah, and then it's like, okay, we got they got eight kills, we got sixty kills, and maybe maybe there was more than sixty kills, you know, because they dragged some of them. Some of the guys were all bandaged up and they were still fighting. I couldn't believe it. It was like it was like weird. They still were coming. They had bandages on them, and they were still coming, doing, crawling up to us. So, so it was so bad on that night that that they that we thought we were gonna get taken, overtaken. They lowered the they lowered the artillery guns as low as they could get them to shoot in the wood line, you know. So, and they were right over us. I mean, the guns. They said, get down as far as you can go, because you know, because they're coming, you know. And they're they're uh the NVA was like I they're gutless. I mean they were like they what they did to these guys, I don't know to make 'em do that. I we'd never, you know, try to, you know, low crawl up there. You know you're gonna get killed, right? More than likely. Right. You know, but they did it, you know. So they we had uh so then we marched off into the jungle. We didn't march, we humped out in the jungle, and it was like on to our usual thing. You start getting new guys into the field, you know, then you know, if one guy got killed, they you just replaced it with another guy. Right, you know, and they tried to they tried to kind of even it out that there's not too many new guys in one squad, you know, because they're kept uh cup kept uh adjusting guys. Yeah, you know, they didn't want too many new guys in one squad. Because, you know, if you were there, it only took you a few months being over there, and then you were an old guy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:32:48

Yeah. So you learned a lot in the very months.

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:52

Yeah. So yep.

SPEAKER_03: 1:32:54

Soon you were not the FNG anymore because they were bringing in so many new people.

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:58

Yeah. So yeah, it was like uh something else. Yeah. So I was gonna went there and then, and after that I uh I was in later on I was in charge of the squad, and it was probably about I was in charge of the squad about about so only only six or seven a week, but that was enough for me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:24

So and then one day I we were getting resupplied, we were getting resupplied, and then and uh and uh officer came up to me, he said, Dargo, get on the plane or get on the chapter, you're going in. And I said, All right, I'm going in. And I did not know anything about it. My my duty was over. I was going back. I I'm out, you know, I'm going back to the rear. Yeah. So I never got to say, I never got to talk to my squad. I just I didn't know what they were doing.

SPEAKER_03: 1:34:07

One day you were there and the next day I was gonna go.

SPEAKER_00: 1:34:10

One day I was there and the next day I was gone.

SPEAKER_03: 1:34:12

Yeah. So so did that bother you that you didn't get a chance to say goodbye.

SPEAKER_00: 1:34:17

Yeah, yeah, it did. Yeah. So yeah. You know, I was back, I was back in uh about four years ago I went out in Hamburg and uh it was the weirdest thing. Uh me and my buddy, who he was also in Vietnam. He was a Marine. And uh we parked in the parking lot and my w my wife was there also. She came with us. And uh all of a sudden a helicopter came real low over our head. I mean, and that was really the first time I was ever that it was almost like it was almost like I was back there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:08

And I got this feeling like I want to be back there because I wanted to see the guys, my buddies, because we covered each other's ass.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:22

You were family, yeah. You know, we only knew each other for months at a time. Well, some guys you only know for a couple months, and then they get wounded or shipped to another squad, or you only kept with your squad. You didn't keep with nobody else.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:42

Nobody else.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:44

Yeah. Those are the keys. Just your squad. So it was like a I've never had that feeling in my life. I actually wanted to be back in them. Can you imagine that?

SPEAKER_03: 1:35:54

And I hated it. Yeah, but that's how it is. That's how it is when you're But I mean, that's we were buddies.

SPEAKER_01: 1:36:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:04

We weren't friends. We're buddies. There's a difference between a friend and a buddy. I don't know how to describe it, but your buddy will cover your ass.

SPEAKER_03: 1:36:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:16

You know?

SPEAKER_03: 1:36:17

Well, you know what I think too is that um I know from my deployment that you don't always like the people. Like you don't necessarily like them, but they're your buddies. Yeah. I think that's the difference. Like you know that if anything happens, you have each other. Yeah. Right? So it isn't really a friendship. It's it's it's a lot deeper than that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:36:42

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:43

Well, you know, I got along with everybody there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:36:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:45

Believe it or not, yeah. That's why I don't know. It's like there was only one guy, and that we only had one little squabble. One little squabble between, and then we we settled it, and and uh uh we had to dig a foxhole every night.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:37:04

Every night we had to, our squad was so somebody could at least jump into the hole that night. So every day you had to dig one in your position. Well, guess what? Guess what? I was digging and digging, and there was this uh the black uh black guy, and I got along with everybody, but this black guy, and he he wasn't doing his part. And I said, hey boy, get over here and start digging. Oh my gosh, I thought he was gonna kill me. I actually thought he was gonna kill me because he outweighed me by a lot. He was like, that's all he talked about is football over there. He was a he was gonna play football after he got out. And and I said, you gotta start, you gotta start pulling your weight, you know. And after that, we got along fine.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:38:01

We got along fine after that. But just pull your weight, you know. You know, you had to do certain things all the time. And so, and uh, but that was a I I my my squad was I had uh one guy's his his name was uh it was called he was a he was a black guy, and uh you know, to tell you the truth, I don't even remember his name, but he was a gambler. He loved to gamble, and we called him Is a money, is a money, easy money. And it was like he was the nicest guy, nicest guy. He he was a little bit older than me. I thought he was older than me, but we were all only, you know, we were all older than 19, 20, 21, but but uh we just uh we got along great, you know. Yeah. We uh I slept right next to the guy, you know, we and covered covered each other's ass, you know. We'd uh during the during the rainy season, we'd set up these things at night where you'd set up four guys who sleep together, and we'd set up uh, it was kind of like a tent. You put a rubber, you'd make up a couple poles and put a pole across, and you had to cut some trees down to do it, and uh and uh we slept there and uh at night every you'd uh you do your uh do your uh guard duty, you know, and then we always were well you're all you were always tired there. Right. You could never get enough rest. Yeah, you know, because you were you never got a good night's sleep, you know. So that's about it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:39:52

Whole 11 months of just being tired.

SPEAKER_00: 1:39:54

Just being tired and dirty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:39:57

So tell so tell me, you you get back to the rear and then you find out you're you're going home.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:02

They said I'm going home.

SPEAKER_03: 1:40:03

Yeah. You're going home. How'd that feel?

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:07

Well, I was elated. You know, I couldn't, I couldn't uh, you know, I was like, so I'm going, I'm checking out, and then they go, I don't know, for some, I don't know how they kept kept track of your stuff, but they uh your civilian stuff was kept back in a certain spot, and then they kind of you know they kind of got you together back with that, you know, again. And so we had to go, we had to put all of our stuff on a you had to display all your stuff when we were going like on a like on a table. Yeah. Like on a table. And and uh at that time they put me in some uh they put me in some cat I had khakis on, a khaki uniform with shoes and uh just a khaki shirt. That's a light tan and brought my duffel bag up there and they and they said to me, he said, uh you can't take those home with you. I said why not? He said you can't that was my boots. The boots I wore over there. He said, You can't take those home with you. I said, why not? He says, You just can't. So I took the whole duffel bag and dropped it there. I said, you guys can have it all. You guys can have it all. I just wanted my boots. Right. My boots. I thought that would be that's not too uh bad of a deal, is it? To have a pair of boots that you wore for l eleven months, a little over eleven months. Yeah. You know? So they didn't let me bring them back. So I just dropped I dropped my whole duffel. I didn't I had a duffel bag, I just dropped it there. I said, You guys can have it all. They let me have my civilian stuff. Right. But not my duffel bag. Oh not my boots. Not your boots. That's the only thing I wanted. So I did get I was able to bring my boonie hat on.

SPEAKER_03: 1:42:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42:31

That's about that was it. That was it. That was it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:42:34

I still have my booney hat too as well.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42:36

So so yeah, so that was uh Yeah. Then I got on uh got on a plane at Benoit in. It was on Capital, like uh I got a picture of that, Capital Airlines. And uh uh again another, you know, uh the plane lands and a whole group of young guys, young guys get off and we're cheering that that's our freedom bird, you know. Right. So we take off, get on the plane, and and uh we're in the air, and I can still remember, I don't know, I think we were, I don't know where we were over. I don't think we were over Vietnam aga anymore, but we were over, it was all this winding river. It was just winding, winding and winding, and all of a sudden we were out over the ocean. And then, you know, the it's a long flight. I came back through uh Alaska. Oh. Yeah, I came back through Alaska, stopped in uh Anchorage, and then from Anchorage I went to Fort Dix, New Jersey, and uh uh from there uh I uh again we uh they processed us uh and they put me in a I just had khakis on there. They put me in a dress uniform. I didn't have a dress uniform. So they put me in a brand new suit, brand new pants, brand new shoes, brand new everything was brand new, brand new, brand new coat, everything was brand new. Put my stripes on, everything, and uh and uh they marched us over to the mess hall. They marched us over to the mess hall, and they gave us a steak dinner. So that was my last I had a steak dinner for my life. Like I said, uh the army always makes sure you're fed.

SPEAKER_03: 1:44:52

So it's interesting the first meal you had was underneath the table, and the second meal or the last meal you had was at the table and it was a steak dinner.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:00

And in between that was cans of of sea rations.

SPEAKER_03: 1:45:03

That's right, all the good stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:05

Cans of sea rations. Yeah, pork and beans and whatever. Yeah. So did you just they give us a briefing. They gave us a briefing. Uh it was all army, and they said, when you you have to wear your uniform to get on a flight, get a military flight. So he says, as soon as you hit your destination, airport, to take your uniform off and change it into some civilian clothes. And they said, because people are spitting on uh the GIs coming back home. And uh I didn't do what they told me to do. I was out of the service. So I was I was kind of proud. I served my country. I didn't I did what they asked. I didn't want to go. I was wasn't a fighter. I was I never was in a fight in my life. I didn't I was I hunted and stuff like that, but I didn't I wasn't a physical in the physical fighting or nothing like that. So I kept my uniform on and and uh my mom and dad picked me up at the airport and uh first thing I did is uh we went and visited my uh my favorite aunt and uncle and they're they were glad to see me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:38

I got letters from them all the time, so so uh uh it was uh and then when I got home and it's like they they your uh your employer somehow the your employer and uh the army kept in track with each other. So I worked at Delta uh that whole time or um before then and uh they were were we r required to br have my job. Yeah. So uh so the station manager calls me up. He says, Dave, you coming back in to work? I said, I said, hey, Carl, I says, his name was Carl Schroeder, and uh I said, Carl, I got 90 days to report back to work, and I'll see you on my 90th day. I said, I'm taking the vacation.

SPEAKER_03: 1:47:40

You need to get some sleep.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:42

Yeah, so yeah, so well I gotta ask you a question though, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:47:46

Because you guys I it it it must be uh a soldier thing, but you guys are talking about the car you were gonna get when you got back.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_03: 1:47:53

So what did you get?

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:54

What I got, I got when I was over there for some I don't know how we got that anyway. We got like a a booklet, or it was like a big piece of paper, uh-huh, actually, of all the the cars and the car prices, even. Yeah. What the car prices was. So anyway, I was uh my dad was always in the General Motors products. Uh-huh. And so uh I I uh selected uh my felieve it or not, after all these years, even being in the service and stuff, I like green. I like dark green. So I bought a dark green 1970 Monte Carlo. Oh yeah. So that's the biggest hood on that baby uh uh ever. It was like a football field. I kept I kept that thing for 11 years. Kept that thing for 11 years. Yeah. It was like what a nice car that was.

SPEAKER_03: 1:48:56

Oh yeah. So yeah, so you went back to you, so you went back to Delta then after 90 days?

SPEAKER_00: 1:49:02

90 days, and I reported back to work. And they wouldn't give me my old job back. Right. I got hired back, but then I got I was working at Air Freight at the time when I went in. First first first I worked on the ramp, and then they transferred me to Air Freight, and and then I wanted that job back, and they said, well, there's no openings there, but you can work on the ramp. Well, that's where I originally started off. Right. But it was like it was like when I got back to work, it was like uh, I don't know, it was just I couldn't I couldn't uh uh like I could function and stuff like that, but everything was everything was different. People ask you stupid questions, right? You know, like how many guys did you kill? And and it was like, yeah. And then after a while, well I didn't answer them, but after we just I just completely went with my mouth, I didn't say a word about Vietnam. I didn't say a thing. And uh it was it took a little while, took a little while, and uh I met an met a new guy at work and me and him became buddies. And uh we were uh uh I was always over at his house. We'd we worked the midnight shift a lot, and we go out to the bar right from the morning. Or we worked afternoon shift, we'd go to the bar. So I did a lot of bar time. Yeah. A lot of bar time and then uh we we were really really good friends, buddies, and uh uh I was always over his house. And uh and he had a swimming pool. And uh I really wasn't into you know, I wasn't really into uh I had friends, I talked to girls and stuff like that, but I wasn't like I wasn't like like so anyway he asked me one day, he says uh the girl across the street would like to go out with you. You know? I said, you mean you mean Jackie? And uh he said, yeah. He said, you want to go out on a double date together? Well go out on a double date because we're friends. We were always at I was t I'd talk to her, but I said, I didn't know she was interested in me. So we we went on a double date. We went on a double date. We went to Canada. We went to Canada and uh uh we had we had dinner in Canada, we drove around had dinner. So anyway, Mickey's date, I did not know her at the time, is now the girl that I'm married to, Marjorie.

SPEAKER_03: 1:52:26

Whoa, isn't that funny how things work out?

SPEAKER_00: 1:52:29

He was just friends with her, though. He was just, yeah, there were we weren't, they weren't like, you know, you weren't going together. Right. It was just a date. Yeah. It was a date. So I went out with Jackie for a while. I went out with her for a while, and uh things didn't work out, you know. I liked her and she liked me, but it wasn't uh it wasn't, you know, I was wasn't with anybody. Yeah. So then I got my wife, Margie was working at Delta also. She's one of the teletype girls, and I got to know her, and I finally got up my nerve to ask her to go out. So, so we started going out, and uh here it is uh uh 51 years later and we're we're uh happily married.

SPEAKER_03: 1:53:18

51 years. That's a that's awesome, that's incredible. Yeah, good for you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:23

Yeah, so that's nice.

SPEAKER_03: 1:53:25

So did you did you stay at Delta then?

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:28

I worked at Delta for 35 years. Okay. And then uh in 1995, I lost my job here in Detroit. My job was was uh contracted out. So uh they gave me an option. Either go to Atlanta and work or go to Cincinnati and work. So I chose Cincinnati because that was closer. Yeah. So I commuted for six years. So I commuted from Cincinnati to back home here for six years. Wow. So that was rough. It's a lot of driving. Very rough. One of the roughest times of my life. Yeah. That was right when my daughters were teenagers, so it was like uh uh, you know, I didn't want them to change schools, and I didn't want to we liked it here. And I thought something might work out. I thought, well, something'll work out, we'll get our jobs back. And well, we never did get our jobs back. Yeah. Unless if you stayed with the company for for so when 9-11 came, when 9-11 came, Delta got rid of a lot of people. Yeah. So so I would just fell under the guidelines to be able to retire. So so so I retired.

SPEAKER_03: 1:54:59

2001 then.

SPEAKER_00: 1:55:00

2001 I retired. And then my wife was still working, she was working at Eastern University. Uh-huh. So uh uh I looked in the paper one day and uh uh found the ad in the paper looking for uh somebody to take care of the yard. So uh so I answered uh answered uh well I went over to see the people and they were in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And uh uh I worked I wound up working for them for 19 years. And then along the way I picked up, I actually ran like my little lawn service by myself. Uh-huh. I did I did everything from cutting grass to cutting shrubs to cleaning out gutters to to it was f all physical work to painting, to uh to uh uh ripping ripping fences out, and I did all that. Somebody asked me to do something, I'd tell them, yeah, I can do it. And uh uh my wife was getting mad at me for a while because I was getting too many customers. Right. So then I I worked I did that for 19 years. I thought that was enough. So 35 at Delta, 19, between Delta and the service, and uh that was enough.

SPEAKER_03: 1:56:26

So what right around 2020 you finally I finally quit. Retired?

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:32

I finally retired, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:56:34

So you have how many children?

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:35

I've got two daughters, uh huh. Two daughters and uh four grandchildren. Yeah uh two of each.

SPEAKER_03: 1:56:42

What do your daughters do?

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:43

My daughters was uh uh they both went to college at Eastern, graduated from Eastern. Uh-huh. And my uh uh my one daughter was in the uh uh HR department, and she got a job at uh quicken loans. Okay my other daughter, she got a uh uh job in social social. She she thought she was gonna save the world, and uh uh she found out after she graduated that that it wasn't for her she gave it a try anyway. She she gave it a try. And then uh she was very good at writing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:57:29

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 1:57:30

Very good at at at she was a real reader and she knew how to now she's uh working at a place where she something somebody turns something in and she rewrites it for them the proper way. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So she's very good at that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:57:55

Well, that's great.

SPEAKER_00: 1:57:55

That was her skill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:57:57

Well, and you the you have four grandchildren, you were saying two boys and two girls. Two boys and two girls. Yeah, how's that? You enjoying that?

SPEAKER_00: 1:58:03

Yeah, that's it's yeah, it's like uh as uh well I took care of my at that time I was like when my that was like let's see, that was like uh my youngest daughter, Christy, she had her first baby, and that was uh a girl, and they named her Logan, and she was working, husband worked, so and at the time I was doing, I was still how I did all this stuff, I don't know how I did it, but they needed a babysitter, you know. So grandpa was the babysitter for basically five years, my daughter my granddaughter. I I it was like uh it's quite an experience, you know. Like like, you know, uh had to go there and pick Logan up and bring her back over here and then take care of her all day. And then and uh but uh I did it for five years. Uh that was then she went to school. Right. Thankfully.

SPEAKER_03: 1:59:12

Right. They'll wear you out, that's for sure. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 1:59:15

So for for a grandparent to do that, I thought uh I was pretty proud of myself. Yeah. And uh my daughter was very picky. She had I had to write down everything that I did.

SPEAKER_03: 1:59:26

Well, yes. You know that's how it works.

SPEAKER_00: 1:59:28

The first one is like, you know, you you gotta uh if the bottle falls on the floor, you gotta put a new nipple on it or what after a while you just take a ketchup bottle and give it to them.

SPEAKER_03: 1:59:40

Oh yeah, yeah. After a while they're they could be chewing on a shoe and you don't care, right? Because they're gonna be okay. It's totally different. It is. It is. And so you uh still keep in contact with some of your buddies, though, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:59:55

What's that? You still keep in contact with some of the people. Well, just one. Just one. Just one. Okay. Just one. Yep. So and I had one guy that he called me years ago and uh Bruce Hood. He was the ammo carrier for Kendall, the guy that was killed in Vietnam. Yeah. And he called me up. He says, he said, you know, we're we're in a book. Our our our the first calf is a guy wrote a book. It's called The Cat from Away. You ever hear of that book? I have not. And it's called, it's a very thick book, it's about that thick. Uh-huh. And it was reporters from ABC, and they were following us at in uh Vietnam, and they were following our company, and following a couple companies. We were a Bravo company, and they're they're especially following Charlie Company, uh, because there was a uh a dispute. Not a dispute. Uh yeah, well, it was uh the guys in the company w refused to march down a road. They said, we're not marching down that road. We're not going down that road. Just walking down the road, we're not walking down. They refused the officers' orders. And probably they didn't. They, you know, because you know, some of the officers there were were like were basically gung ho. They didn't care how many guys got killed. You know? So that's just the way it is, you know. They refused. So they were following us. So uh the the the the day that our uh fire base was attacked uh they were they they flew them guys in. He got on the helicopter, he flew right in during the middle of the fight, this reporter did.

SPEAKER_01: 2:02:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:02:05

So he got he got it's all marked he he wrote everything down in a book about this, and I got everything underlined what he said and w what position I was in, you know. So it's uh it was kind of uh kind of neat in a way.

SPEAKER_03: 2:02:23

Yeah, yeah. Great to have that piece of history recorded. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 2:02:27

Yeah. Oh well. I had my picture taken over there a number of times by by photographers. And uh one one time I got off a chopper and uh he he kind of came up to me, he said, Can I take your picture? He says, I says, Well, what do you want to take my picture for? He says, Because you look the worst. Thanks a lot. You look the worst. So I don't know what he meant by that.

SPEAKER_03: 2:03:01

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:02

Yeah, you look the worst.

SPEAKER_03: 2:03:03

You're in somebody's photo album now, and he's like, that was the worst-looking guy that came off that helicopter. You look the worst. That's funny. Yeah. Oh well, we've talked about a lot of stuff over the last we've been talking for two hours now, if you can remember that. Yes. Oh, yes. So um, you know, as we kind of start to wrap up our conversation, okay. Um, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to still talk about? Is there anything that we haven't covered?

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:30

Not that I can think of, really.

SPEAKER_03: 2:03:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:33

Well, you know, there's always stuff that comes, you know, I think of stuff, but you know, uh, I think I think I think I did a pretty good job. I mean, covering different uh stuff that I remembered. I know there was a lot more that there's a lot more than that because, you know, but but I just kind of like there's certain things you really remember. I mean, you'll never not forget. Never. I'll never till the till the day they put me on the ground, I'll I'll I'll remember it. Hopefully, yes. If I don't get Alzheimer's. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 2:04:10

Well, and we have this recording to capture that too for you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:13

So, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:04:14

Yeah. So the the only other question I have for you, Dave, is um, you know, for someone listening to this years from now or even a hundred years from now, like we talked about earlier, um, what message would you like to leave for people?

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:28

Oh, well, all I I all I can say is that that when I when I got back out of the service, I failed, I wouldn't, I would not talk about it for 50 years. It was 50 years before I started to talk about it. I had bad dreams about it. My I'd wake my wife up at night, sit up in bed. It's the same dream over and over again. And I just it was just like I just want to remember that, you know, I didn't want to go to war, but I did everything that I was asked to do. And I'm pretty damn proud of it. And I just wish um now after f I just started wearing like military hats now when I go out into any event or maybe into the store. And it's when I first got back you know, people didn't want to talk to me. Or if they did, they asked the wrong questions and uh uh now that I'm finally t talking about things that that and I'm wearing some a military hat or a first calve hat or whatever, veteran's hat or maybe a shirt that the people will actually walk up to you and say, Thank you for your service. And I said I'm I tell them I'm proud to serve my country. I did everything I asked, you know, and I'm proud of it.

SPEAKER_03: 2:06:15

So well and welcome home.

SPEAKER_00: 2:06:18

Welcome home.

SPEAKER_03: 2:06:19

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing your morning with me, David. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:06:23

Mm-hmm. And thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_03: 2:06:26

You're welcome.